Kaitsja
Kaitsja
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@Tryharder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2966312#Comment_2966312
killer don’t have 3rd party software like mics and apps like discord to talk to people. How does a killer have just as much info as a swf with 3rd person 360• camera control that can peak around corner? Everyone known killer fov sucks and easy to take advantage of by spinning. What info killer got? How can a killer find a survivor with spinechill, iron will and on a stupid map like swamp hiding in the corner of the map in a pitch black bush
Killers have just as much information as survivors without comms have. Spine chill and Iron Will are perks that you can play around. Killer fov is fine. Now you just sound like you're complaining about survivors doing literally anything.
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@Maxitolliony said:
i have a lot of hours in surv and just recently play killer. rank 1 with like 300 hours or something on surv. i know how broken surv is but to have 4 good survs on the same team on discord is legit just unfair. again its a 1v4 game this should not be a thing where the killer has a less than 1% of winning and the only was to win the game is win noed. (taking hits is a thing and the boon perks helps with that instead of getting punished for doing the action)
I only play survivor in a 2 - 3 swf group. I have 1000 hours of gameplay. One of my friends has 1400 hours of gameplay and the other has around 600 hours of gameplay.
The more hours a survivor has, the better they (probably) are at chaining tiles. Comms is equivalent to all information perks survivors have access to.
Is it rough constantly vsing swf? Absolutely. But a team of good solo players will destroy you just as fast. The longer you play, the better you'll get. The better you play, the more likely it is you'll win.
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I run self-care. I don't always need to use it, but if I'm injured and particularly far away from my teammates, I'm not going to go cross-country to get healed.
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@Tryharder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2966219#Comment_2966219
It’s hypocritical because swf wasn’t apart of the game, they shouldn’t hide it. But lets have survivor have more info than the fbi with perks like spine chill, killer red stain and terror radius, lullaby, loud global sounds, loud breathing and steps, let’s survivor have more info on the killer power than the killer themselves. Onryo can’t see her condemn bar, Freddy can’t see the timer on his passive, pig can’t see the timer of her trap. Survivor have all this information and only thing killer got going is that they can m1 and maybe down a survivor if they not afk. Swf is unfair either stop letting solo queue players holding killers back or get rid of swf. Everyone always talking about survivors playerbase but killer exist as well
It would be hypocritical if swf was not a feature of the game, and survivors lobby dodged to be in a swf, but that's not the case.
Red stain, terror radius, lullaby, global sound, breathing and steps are all intended features of the game. Utilising that information is intended gameplay. I don't see how Pig, Freddy, and Onryo being able to see the meters of their respective powers would be at all helpful to them.
Killers have the same amount of information that survivors without comms have. Comms are equivalent to information perks, but are not equivalent to gen defense perks, slowdown perks, chase perks, etc.
Solo Queue is not holding killers back. Killers are being held back by a variety of factors. Including, but not limited to, the strength of the survivor role, map sizes, tile RNG and strength, the lack of a meaningful secondary objective for the survivor role, and core balance problems.
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@fogdonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2965730#Comment_2965730
The incentive will be as high as the market of killer player dictates.
You are telling the other stuff without showing any evidence to back up your statements.
And why are you talking about offtopic stuff like solos not having built in kindred.
The lack of information for solos means it's far easier for the killer to stomp a team of solos than it is to play against a SWF team.
If I were to provide evidence from all of the killer mains who don't want to play against SWFs, my post would be very long. Search bar exists for a reason.
@Tryharder said:
It’s funny how people think they know so much about other people and can predict if the entire community of people will quit if killers can get a non swf queue lol.
I find it hypocritical swf can hide that they’re are a swf and killer just have to deal with it lol. But now survivor mains now love using solo queue to make killers super weak lol. “My teammates are not carrying me plz nerf every killer so that my drunk teammates can all escape with me”
survivors just want easy games that’s why they act like swf is super rare and solo is stupid common to go against lol. I already know that a non swf queue wouldn’t hurt dbd just like boons, hit validation, nerfs,useless reworks, dumb exploits didn’t hurt dbd. Survivors still buying cosmetics, that’s all they want lol.
SWF accounted for 50% of matches back in 2019. That number would be higher by now. It absolutely would hurt dbd. How, exactly, is it hypocritical for a swf group to be hidden from the killer?
Instead of nerfing killers for solo, the idea is to bring solo up to the same level as swf and then nerf the survivor role as a whole/buff killers as necessary.
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@fogdonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2965583#Comment_2965583
And all the time someone comes and answers that nobody would want to face SWFs... But based on what do they say it?
- Trust me, if there would be a 100x multiplier people would go for it.
- The killer would AFK? Give the multiplier only at 4k, this way there is a risk reward and can't be abused by the killer.
- Killers don't want that many bloodpoints... Then give them shard reward.
You see it is always the easiest to say why no, why is something a bad idea... Instead of finding a solution.
First of all, any incentive has to be realistic. Extra BP would be small. No extra shards would be given because BHVR isn't that generous.
Second, nobody wants to play against SWF because of the clear advantage that voice comms has. It's like having every information perk in the game at your disposal.
Third, any killers that did want to play against SWF would just play top tier killers with stacked slowdown and then camp and tunnel their way to a 4k, or they'd play basement bubba. Neither of which is enjoyable.
Fourth, killers would choose to play against solo q at least 90% of the time. Instead of getting a BP Bonus, and maybe getting a kill or two, it'd be easier and more reliable to just stomp solo q players.
Fifth, Solo q players can't communicate that the killer is camping unless they have kindred. They can't communicate that they're being chased. They can't communicate that a specific gen is almost finished. They can't coordinate who's going to get the rescue.
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@fogdonkey said:
If game incentives are coming to the game, they could add a separate solo and a separate SWF queue to the game. Killers facing SWFs would most likely get higher bloodpoint multiplier.
This way killers could decide if they want to face swf or solo players.
This topic crops up from time to time and every time it's the exact same argument every time.
No killer is ever going to want to play against SWF. Queue times would skyrocket, solo queue would become even more miserable, and the game would eventually die.
@Sakurra said:
Why survivors have the right to use voice chat, but the killer is not even allowed to know if he's facing swf. Huh...
You know damn well killers would either lobby dodge or just play full sweat and toxic. Either way, queue times would skyrocket and people would stop playing survivor.
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I'm against it. While I like the Alien franchise, I'm adamantly against the Xenomorph coming to dbd.
If we ever get the Xenomorph, then naturally we'll get Predator, and I just don't feel like either of them are a good fit for dbd.
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By itself, NOED is pretty weak. But used in an endgame build it's pretty annoying.
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Because it was too strong in low MMR, and did absolutely nothing to help Wraith at high MMR. Wraith deserves love, but I don't think it should be in the form of a speed boost. I'd rather see something like giving him a faster uncloak.
That being said, I don't play Wraith so I'm not really in a position to suggest what he needs.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2964147#Comment_2964147
ps4 player I'd take three of me in a heartbeat too.
I use no meta perks but I find a way to do 2 and half gen,3 totems at the least,get chased few times,and do safe unhook if I can if I can't I'll take a hit or trade hooks some my teammate can play too.
what platform you play on don't matter the player then self what matters.
I usually run BT, We'll Make It, Renewal and Overcome. I either manage to do 3 gens and get every rescue, or I manage to run the killer for 3 gens. I'll even trade to get a teammate out in EGC. I do whatever it takes to help my team.
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@Vetrathene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2964125#Comment_2964125
Every other team game has it, and has a mute button. I think its a necessary evil that needs to be added to make the game easier to balance. I would rather just not have SWF at all for how the game was originally intended, but we are way beyond that at this point. So I would rather just give everyone the option for voice chat. Keyword OPTION.
Most people wouldn't use it even if it were an option. Nobody wants to hear some crappy loud music over the mic, or the sound of somebody stuffing their face with chips and chewing very loudly, or the annoying children (actual children) who play this game.
I didn't like those things in GTA Online, Rainbow Six Siege, Overwatch or Call of Duty, so I actively avoided using comms for any of those games. Just because it could be an option, doesn't mean it needs to be.
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Console player here. I'd take three of me in a heartbeat. Every platform has good and bad survivors. If you dodge based on platform, just turn crossplay off.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2964056#Comment_2964056
That would have been incredibly useful.
BBQ, Ruin, Surveillance and Starstruck was my go-to build for the longest time. It made games very easy for the most part since I could drop chases to defend generators, not to mention making the early-game significantly easier.
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@TheSubstitute said:
I find stacking Haunted Grounds, Undying and Ruin to be about the only way I can keep Ruin up for a decent portion of the match. Now we can ask if three perk slots is worth it to have Ruin but that, at least, is a reliable use for Haunted. Pairing Surveillance with this combo, though, does give really good intel.
Surveillance + Ruin used to be an even better combo at some point before the loss of the stranger things license.
I don't remember specifically when it got fixed but with Ruin active, Surveillance would show all generators as regressing. When survivors touched a gen, that gen would be highlighted. It was like having Lethal Pursuer before Lethal Pursuer even existed.
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@Tsulan said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UGRAN59DX5V8/undying-jpg.jpg
If Hex perks are considered strong in the devs book, then what are boons?
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2870773#Comment_2870773
That screenshot explains it right there- hexes are meant to be strong perks that can be destroyed. Boons aren't.
Old Undying isn't comparable even to CoH, they're different problems.
@jesterkind said:
Hexes and boons are not the same mechanic, and shouldn't be considered the same way for balancing.
The reason that boons aren't broken on snuff or are one use only is because they're designed to provide continual slowdown from survivors who keep staying off generators to relight their boons and keep their buffs up. Through that lens, we can undertand that single-use boons or single-use specific totems is a catastrophically bad idea that'd completely undercut the entire intended effect.
We also have to consider that boons aren't broken. Circle of Healing in particular is broken, but after its upcoming nerf, it should be... more manageable, at least? I'm not sure, it might need more but that's not really the point- the point is, the other three boons are not overpowered. Two of them are nearly useless and the third one is just decent, so clearly boons don't actually need any real adjustments.
At least, not major ones. I do think some things could change, I'd personally like if the killer could hear the directional cue from further away, but it's just minor tweaks like that.
@jesterkind said:
The mechanical point of boons, from a design perspective, is to provide continual slowdown from survivors who want to get buffs in exchange for the time they put in to create and/or maintain those buffs- time that cannot be spent on generators. The success or failure of boons, and any problems they may have, must be viewed through the lens of how well they achieve that goal.
Having boons broken on snuff moves them farther from this goal and makes them much less desireable to bring as perks, so it seems like a pretty bad idea to me.
Hexes are designed to be strong perks that can be destroyed, while boons are designed to be buffs that can be snuffed to create slowdown. A survivor blessing totems is a survivor not on a generator.
That's why hexes should remain gone once broken. Do hexes deserve love? Yes, just not in that specific form.
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Basekit Nurse is fine. Her add-ons could use a nerf.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2963779#Comment_2963779
Yeaaaah no. Boons are stronger than hex perks. Or at least, hex perks are not strong enough to justify, why they can´t be relit or are even hex perks to begin with.
Don't make me dig up a quote from @jesterkind on why hexes and boons are not the same thing.
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@WaveyTrey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2958863#Comment_2958863
That’s probably because you aren’t camping, tunneling, and slugging accordingly when you should’ve. As killer your job isn’t to make survivors have fun. It’s to torment/bully them. I usually camp the very first person I catch to second phase, or even death. Using Corrupt to keep a good amount of gens protected. If it’s Pyramid Head I’m using better believe if you’re cursed on second phase I’ll Mini Mori you immediately off the hook. THEN I proceed to play more fair/accordingly against the other 3 survivors. Since within 1-2 chases 3 gens get done. You may as well have one dead in the same amount of time.
If you’re trying to play “sportingly” against 4 SWFs who already intend on tbagging and bullying you then you already lost the match. If you aren’t getting paid to play DBD who cares how you play as killer. They’re mad because they got caught. Plain and simple.
Your job as killer is to kill the survivors, not torment/bully them. But hey, if you want to throw the game by camping the first survivor you catch, you do you buddy.
A good team of survivors will smash out those gens while you're wasting time not pressuring the other survivors.
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Base DS wouldn't deserve to be changed to deactivate upon entering a locker. A survivor trying to preserve their DS is a survivor not progressing the game.
I'd like to see base kindred (reduce killer aura read to 3 meters), base BBQ, NOED Rework, incentives for players to not tunnel/camp, swamp rework, timed effects for boons: Auto-snuffs after the timer runs out, base brutal strength + 10% regression for kicking a gen, base windows of opportunity/zanshin tactics, base unbreakable (Requires being slugged for 60 seconds).
There's more stuff I'd like to see changed, but that's all I can think of for now.
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@Bartlaus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2960803#Comment_2960803
Actually it's no joke. I have met many survivors who share this definition of tunneling.
Nobody takes those people seriously, and they don't represent the majority.
@PenguinProphet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2960803#Comment_2960803
The onus of survivor fun rests on the devs, not the killers. If survivors are having a bad time, it's a development issue and should be fixed through better game mechanics. In a PvP game you cannot expect the opposition to play suboptimally for the sake of your personal amusement.
Personally, when playing killer, I will take the foot off the gas if I see a player struggling, but thats just a personal preference. Conversely, I have never seen survivors stop doing gens and take a breather when I'm 4 gens down with 2 hooks. Maybe I should cook up a taxonomy of gen rushing?
Yes, the onus of survivor fun does indeed rest on the devs. I'm not suggesting killers ease up or anything of the sort.
People should play the way they want to play, but if their playstyle happens to create an overall unenjoyable experience then they shouldn't expect those on the receiving end to be jumping for joy about it.
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Definitely upset that Kate isn't getting a mask but Ace and Dwight are, alongside characters who constantly get new cosmetics.
I very much doubt that there'll be a second masquerade event where they do another set of characters since that would diminish the point of the masks being more special than generic anniversary crowns.
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@Bartlaus said:
After hooking a survivor for the first time you are not allowed to chase him again unless 5 gens are done and unless every other survivor has been hooked one time. Otherwise you are a meanie tunneler.
Please, don't exaggerate like that. Nobody actually expects that of the killer.
@PerfectlyPink said:
It seems like a weird thing to get worked up about. It's so much easier to just not care; why frustrate yourself by getting upset about tunneling?
The problem with being tunneled out of the game, especially early, is that it's just not fun. It's not worth queuing up and it's not worth waiting. It happening once is easy to brush off. It happening upwards of 10 games in a row? Not so easy to brush off.
Play how you want and all that, just don't expect survivors to be jumping for joy at the prospect of being tunneled out of the game so the killer can have an easy 3v1.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2960105#Comment_2960105
So what ? It's perfectly normal.
Sure, but that doesn't mean it isn't a problem. BT being basekit won't change that. Even DS being basekit wouldn't change that.
The only thing that would change that is providing the killer with an incentive to not tunnel.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2959958#Comment_2959958
No, tunneling has counters if everyone has BT.
If the killer wants you out of the game, BT isn't going to stop them and neither is decisive.
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@ChurchofPig said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2958568#Comment_2958568
It's by Dead by Daylight Year, which is June 20XX - June 20XX, Jane and Yui (if looking at dead by daylight years) actually released in 2 separate years. Jane released in Year 3 which was June 2018-June 2019 and Yui released in Year 4 which was June 2019-June 2020
Oh, well that makes sense then.
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@ChurchofPig said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2956095#Comment_2956095
I get that Ace make sense and so does Dwight being the first survivor (like Trapper is the first killer both on a technical level) however, during the stream they mentioned giving a mask to one original survivor and killer from every year, and they gave Year 1 two survivor masks while Year 2 doesn't have any. It's not even like a "Oh Year 2 only had licensed survivors" because that's not true.
Both 2017 and 2018 were skipped for survivor, while 2019 got two survivor masks. Ace and Dwight released in 2016, while Jane and Yui were released in 2019.
I'm disappointed that Kate and Feng aren't getting masks. The masks are really nice, but since I don't play any of the killers that are getting masks, and I don't play any of the survivors that are getting masks, I guess I'll just skip the cosmetics this anniversary. 😭
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@CheeseAnton said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2956294#Comment_2956294
I understand, but what you gotta remember is that
I forgot Ace actually wasn't a 2nd year survivor, I thought he released after David so I thought him having it made senseAce is begging to be in a Masquerade Party, dude's shady as hell and him being in a fancy party with hidden identity is a heaven for scams or underground dealings I'd assume. Don't know much about Masquerades, I'd just assume they are sketchy underground places and Ace is begging to be there, let him thrive in this environment.I do get that they lied, but I just think Ace is too perfect to ignore. It's like giving not giving an Artist skin to the character that's canonically an Artist, yes I'm still a bit salty that Jane got that green rarity store skin and not Jeff, and that's why I'm okay with Ace getting it over David, because looking back at it we'll agree that "why didn't the sketchy dude that probably has multiple identities and thrives in high-class environments not be in the Masquerade, over the dude that probably wasn't even invited to his own birthday party and can't hold back his anger who is a ticking time bomb at a party."
Masquerades are anything but sketchy underground places. They were basically fancy costume parties for the wealthy.
That aside, I love the look of the masks but I am disappointed with the survivor choices. Especially since it's not just Dwight and Ace who released in the same year, it's also Yui and Jane. Only Mikaela and Elodie were released in different years.
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@Mileena_Kahn said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/V5D4PI0OYUXS/9ba531a0-742b-4ede-8dde-69909771e8ce.jpeg
People will find ANYTHING to complain about on the survivor’s side. The killers cried until COH became useless despite the perk going threw a few changes already, DS got a hard nerf thanks to killer main complaints, and now Dead Hard is probably next on the chopping block. But wait… How can the same people complaining about all of these Single perks fail to realize the killer side has things that are probably far worse that haven’t been fixed even though they’ve been BIG issues?
HUG TECH
SLUGGING UNTIL BLEED OUT
ALCHEMIST RING
BUBBA FACECAMPING
NOED
TUNNELING
These are just a few I named that have been a big issue and it feels like the devs haven’t even put in an effort to address these problems.
To be fair, Decisive needed to be nerfed. Players could progress the game and then DS you even when you weren't tunneling them.
In regards to CoH, it did need to be nerfed. Maybe not quite as heavily as it has been, but it definitely wasn't healthy for the game in its original state.
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@sakuraE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2957157#Comment_2957157
but now killer stop playing, and move on to greener pastures.
And next it is difficult to notice SWF by hiding name(maybe profile too)
Why do bear the burden of any player choosing SWF?
Killers stop playing because of the imbalances between roles. When solo queue is brought up to the level of SWF, the bar can safely be lowered without punishing solo queue.
Nobody wants to play against SWF. Making SWF optional for killers will just make solo queue even worse, and make the players who want to play together quit playing.
I have no argument for solo queue not wanting to be matched with SWF since they tend to get left on first hook which sucks.
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@Adjatha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2957157#Comment_2957157
And that's why sufficiently well coded Bot killers solves the whole thing. If nobody queues up for Hard Mode as Killer, the survivors get Hard Mode Bots instead.
Or, you know, they could just pretend that SWF isn't an Easy Mode for survivor players like they've been doing for the last six years.
That wouldn't really be a solution so much as it would be a bandaid. The only way to address SWF is to bring Solo Queue up to the level of SWF and then reduce the power of the survivor role from there.
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This argument has come up several times. If SWF is so powerful, but solo queue is so weak, then what would happen if you could choose to not play against SWF?
Nobody would play against SWF. Those survivors would then stop playing, and move on to greener pastures. Solo queue needs to first be brought up to the level of SWF, and then they can look at making changes to SWF.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2954825#Comment_2954825
That was that long ago? I had completely forgotten about all that but now that you mentioned it its coming back to memory. I didn't realize it had been that long since they talked about that. This past year went by fast it seems.
Yeah, they talked about that during the fifth anniversary stream. This past year definitely went by fast. It's hard to believe we're coming up on the sixth anniversary and they haven't even managed to fulfill the roadmap they laid out in the fifth anniversary.
They talked about stomping as many bugs as possible and looking at game health, yet with each update the performance for older consoles (PS4, Xbox One) gets worse.
Despite that, I am looking forward to what the sixth anniversary will bring. I just hope that they don't botch it like they did the fifth anniversary in which the game was basically unplayable for those on older hardware.
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We're going into the sixth anniversary and they still haven't done all the stuff they said they were going to do from the fifth anniversary.
Remember how Mori's were meant to become part of the base game experience that you had to earn instead of it being an offering and just tunneling for the mori?
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@Emeal said:
You can literally turn off cross play in options.
@Ketrab2703 said:
Go to the settings and turn off the crossplay.
While you technically can do this, the problem is that you won't find a match after hours of waiting. The reason is because turning crossplay off means you will only be matched with players on your platform who have also turned crossplay off.
You can't match with same platform players who have crossplay on.
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You don't have to play nice or pretend to be a baby killer. Mistakes should be punished. Ignore post-game chat. BT Bodyblocker? Just hit them as soon as they're off hook.
On the off-chance a survivor doesn't have BT, just slug them. Free pressure. A survivor has to get off a gen, heal the slug from dying to injured and injured to healthy.
Play how you want to play and don't worry about post-game chat.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2953821#Comment_2953821
I do not believe there is a player in this game who will tell you that tunneling efficiently means ignoring the macro state of that match. Most people who use tunneling are using it as a power play when they see an opportunity present itself that wouldn't exist without tunneling.
Not so they can leave the game with a 1-2k EGC
Nobody will say tunneling efficiently means ignoring the macro state of the match, because that wouldn't be efficient.
My point was that the statement that tunneling is efficient is usually taken quite literally, and people aren't really thinking about when it stops being efficient.
So many matches where the killer tries to tunnel the first hooked person out of the game early only for them to still be alive with only one gen left, and the killer has no kills yet. Just feel like it needs to be said more often that tunneling isn't always efficient.
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I feel like everyone naturally assumes tunneling is the most efficient strategy because their favourite streamer does it.
Tunneling is boring, but it can also be a double-edged sword. Sure, you'll guarantee yourself a 1k by EGC, but you'll lose all five gens and the exit gate by fixating on a single survivor. If you don't pressure the other survivors, you're walking away with a 1k which really isn't efficient.
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Legion isn't OP. Legion is still very mediocre in terms of power. That being said, Legion is boring to play against. Not because survs want to just sit on gens and ignore Frenzy, but because constantly having to mend, and then heal because just about every Legion main runs Thanataphobia, is boring.
To put it simply, it does not spark joy.
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@Veinslay said:
I don't take anyone's complaints about finding mending boring or whatever seriously. The amount of survivors that straight up chase me off the hook to take a BT hit tell me that they don't mind mending at all. If anything it should take longer to mend lol
Mending once here and there is fine. Mending the entire trial is, obviously, not fine.
With Legion's Frenzy, it's a constant cycle of mending.
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@MigrantTheGreat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2943256#Comment_2943256
I still do well with her, I just don't enjoy playing as/against her anymore because they literally took away what made her kit unique, and that "CHANCE against her phasing" was literally a handicap for survivor's and gives them 'ez mode'.
Play around IW? Spirit is a 110 killer meaning she has to use her power to win chases. How do you play around something that literally erases survivor's existence? That's like playing Hide and Seek with Helen Keller with her being IT
What, specifically, do you mean by "took away what made her kit unique"? As I understand it, aside from add-ons, the only thing Spirit lost was the stand-still mindgame.
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@LinkToReality said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2942661#Comment_2942661
"Is it tunneling if you wait out BT to down the freshly unhooked survivor? Absolutely!"
Only if you also pick them back up and keep hooking them. Downing a freshly unhooked survivor to trigger altruism from the team so you can get someone else down and people off gens is just tactical gameplay. The more time survivors spend off of gens the better it is for the killer.
That said, if no one else comes around to take aggro off them or to get them up it would be rude to leave them slugged too. Though I personally would likely do so and go pressure gens while someone get them back on their feet, again, because that means that survivor had to be off of gens during that time.
I mean, it seems a bit odd for a killer to go out of their way to wait out the BT just to slug the survivor. I do understand just slugging a freshly unhooked survivor though, since I do that whenever I play killer.
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@Princeharlequinhq said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2943343#Comment_2943343
The problem is, nobody wants to sit on gens longer than they have to. Extending gen times is not the answer. Its already a boring mechanic. I really wish they would just come up with something new for survivors to do to escape. Thats one of the few things I think F13 did better than DBD is they made the finding the parts and fixing the car and all of that just much more interactive and fun.
I agree with that, which is why the time to repair a gen solo would still take 80 seconds. The cooperative repair time has too much of a jump. With two survivors and prove thyself, a gen takes 40 seconds to repair which is the average length of a chase.
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@Emblerr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2942690#Comment_2942690
at what point did i compare her to nurse. the dbd forums everyone :)
Ah, my bad. It was like 4am where I live, so I was pretty out of it. Spirit is in a pretty good spot. A lot of the Spirit players were heavily reliant upon those 50-50 guessing games. With that trick gone, Spirit's balanced. If she were 115%, her power would need to be toned down.
Blight is different because you can see his trajectory. That's why Blight is 115% and Spirit isn't. Not only is Spirit invisible while phasing, she retains a small movement speed boost when exiting a phase. Being 115% would likely mess with that.
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@Carth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2942661#Comment_2942661
Abstracting away from "fun". "Tunneling" for both sides can be re-defined as maximizing efficiency, for killers the 'best' way to play mathematically(disregarding second chance perks) is to down someone, and stay near them in the area pressuring the closest 3 gen if possible. After the survivor is saved, down them again, and get them out of the game asap. Repeat for other survivors and you have what should be the "best" way to play in terms of minimizing the time you spend on chases and hits being kept low. On the survivor side it is spreading out on gens at the start to knock out 3 asap by the first hook and then splitting/combining to knock out the remaining 2 and get out asap.
Killers are(rightfully, I think tunneling is boring and not fun) shamed/complained about for playing this way. Meanwhile survivors knocking out gens faster and faster is totally ok and to be encouraged because "What else are survivors going to do, play bad on purpose?" Its a hypocritical argument from the survivor side that if they maximize their playstyle its fine because its just a core feature/design of the game, however, if killers do the same on their end though it isn't fair/fun and should be penalized. Both gen speds and camping should be addressed at the same time imo. Neither is fair/fun for the other side.
Edit: The depip squad experiment is a perfect example of how survivors can 'tunnel' even with no perks. Its being as smart/efficient as possible.
Tunneling is, without a doubt, being efficient. Survivors doubling up on gens is being efficient. I don't disagree that losing 2 gens by time you get your first hook is terrible, but instead of a broad change to generator repair times in general, it'd be better to change the cooperative repair times.
The time it takes for two survivors to repair a gen should be more like 60 seconds, with three bringing it down to 47 seconds, and four bringing it down to 43 seconds. This way it would still be faster to repair a gen with another survivor but you'd have time to push them off the gen after getting a hook.
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Spirit is fine. Also doesn't make sense to compare her to Blight and Nurse.
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@Carth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939557#Comment_2939557
What is the killer answer to 4 survivors splitting up at the start and tunneling gens?
There is no such thing as survivors tunneling gens. The phrase only exists to oppose survivors complaining about tunneling.
Is it tunneling if you accidentally find the same survivor before hooking anyone else? Not really. Is it tunneling if you wait out the BT to down the freshly unhooked survivor? Absolutely!
Are two survivors working on the same gen without Prove Thyself genrushing you? No. Is it genrushing if they have Prove Thyself and Commodius Toolboxes? Definitely.
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@QueenSaccharine said:
It's worth noting that just because a killer downs you a second time without downing someone else, or chases you for a bit longer than someone else, etc., it's not necessarily because they're trying to tunnel.
Sometimes you're just the weak link of your group. Maybe you're less experienced or haven't practiced looping as much, or maybe you don't know how to deal with certain killers effectively, or maybe you're just having a rough day and aren't playing your best. And that's fine. But if you're an easy target and the killer isn't currently dealing with other survivors or needs to drop a chase that will go on forever, you can't blame them for going after the weak link.
Sometimes you just keep getting found when you're injured and your teammates are playing super safe and won't stop running to the nearest strong loop while ineffectually t-bagging to try to grab the killer's attention. Sometimes you're playing too bold because you have a bunch of second chance perks, or are playing too risky to try to get one over on the killer. Sometimes killers come back to recent unhooks to try to find the person unhooking (i.e. with Make Your Choice) but only find you instead.
If you're in a position where you're an easy target or a free hit while your teammates are not, the killer would be throwing to not at least take a hit. Very friendly killers or ones that are trying to be relaxed and casual will probably either slug you and let your teammate pick you up or leave you be entirely, but for anyone who's trying to pip up or generally playing to win, a free hit is a free hit, and a free hook is a free hook.
I'd say it should only be classified as "tunneling" when the killer is going out of their way to ignore your teammates and pressuring gens to keep finding you to get you out of the game ASAP, and there are 3 or 4 of you remaining. If the killer downs you not too long after you've been unhooked, it's not necessarily because they're trying to do this, but could be that you made a mistake and/or made yourself too appealing of a target. Tunneling and camping are so vaguely defined by the overall community that I've even been accused of "tunneling and camping" in 12 hook merciless killer games. I've been accused of "tunneling and camping" while playing friendly and letting everyone go at the end. There are just people out there who need something to complain about, so they'll accuse you of tunneling and/or camping regardless of how you actually played in the match, because the terms are so poorly defined that they could mean anything.
TLDR because I need to stop writing essays; tunneling and camping, while they are legitimate issues, need to be better defined by the community and both terms should stop being used to describe everything a killer does if people want these issues to be taken seriously.
It's also worth noting that stumbling across the recently unhooked survivor by chance is not tunneling. That's just bad luck for the survivor.
I would like to point out that it's tunneling if you're intentionally targeting the same survivor repeatedly. Tunneling is defined by intention.
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I don't think MMR decays over time. Not 100% sure on that, but it definitely doesn't feel like it does.