Junylar
Junylar
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- Junylar
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@HolyDarky said:
The 2v1 situation with generators left is always akward. Survivors hate the 4K slug and they want to got next and not laying on the ground for 4minutes or hide on the edge of the map for four minutes. It's boring, annoying, and kinda disrespectful by wasting the time of all. The killer, on the side, wants the 4K to get the pip, archive done, or wants it (same when survivors want sometimes the 4 escape). There is also the situation where both survivors hide forever, and this is also boring, annoying, and disrespectful.
In my opinion, we need a surrender opinion with which one survivor can die instantly to give the other one the hatch - the one survivor "asks" the other one if they can give up to give the other one the hatch and if this other survivor agrees, the surrender survivor dies. The killer gets the points and everything from the surrender survivor and it would end the game faster. I think something like this would make situations like these healthier.
This would never work in soloQ, since 2v1 you describe is actually 1v1v1, and both survivors will want to be the one who escapes. They should just make it impossible to escape alone, or open the hatch with 2 survivors in game as soon as one of them enters the dying state.
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If one survivor gets downed within the first minute of the game, your team does not have much of a chance to win even if nobody gives up. Plus if the hooked survivor sees auras of his teammates crouching in corners and not doing gens, it's hard to blame him for those three unhook attempts. The game is really prone to snowballs, and there is no come-back mechanics for survivors, not even generators are getting faster to fix with the lower number of survivors, as they do in some of DbD clones. At the start of a trial survivors are at the apex of their power, it's their time to complete 2 free gens before the first hook, and if they instead screw up right at the start - the game is doomed for them.
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His problem is similar to that of Trapper and Hag: his power just does not work against SWFs. As soon as a 4man finds out who you are, they will always snap you wherever you are, so against SWF you are a plain m1 killer, with the only power of being able to crouch at loops.
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MMR is off there. This is why my games there are finally enjoyable as both sides.
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At least they are doing a gen instead of just hiding in corners all game, so your teammates are not so bad by soloQ standards.
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BHVR never go back on their decision, as it would create a bad image for the investors. So every new addition, however broken and horrible it might be, is here to stay, just like the Escape Based Matchmaking. But yes, it's ridiculous how most people who suffer from DC penalty are not actual quitters, since those can just let go on hook, but people with honest issues and those who have to endure a game with a cheater.
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It certainly feels like it's switched off. I actually have fun and get a decent chance at winning every game I play (Killer and Survivor).
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@Nick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3720522#Comment_3720522
Losing and getting relentlessy tbagged at because you were playing a weak killer / weak perks and had no chance from the start is also not fun. But survivors are just doing their objective so you cant blame them, right? So why are killers getting blamed for doing their objective (killing people). Double standards.
Double standard is BHVR removing all the cheap ez win strategies for survivors, like permanent sabo and 99 gens, but leaving the cheapest ez win strategy for killer, i.e. tunneling. Nothing wrong in desperately trying to win even at expense of other players, even if you know it's annoying for the other side, after all don't blame the players - blame the game, and this is exactly what I do.
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@Sngfun said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3720516#Comment_3720516
Those are newer players mostly, I rarely see badly intentioned survivors do that. I mean, most of the time slugged surivors without hope just tab out the game.
Lucky you then! I constantly get these kind of teammates if I am the last one standing, and sometimes the killer picks them up and lets them get out of their grip, after which the survivor will plainly run to me, literally leading the killer. The killer then sometimes gives him the hatch for ratting me out. But maybe it's a regional thing, and I just happen to be in the most toxic region.
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@イエローミント said:
I never quite understand why tunneling is so disliked. If you encounter four monsters that heal each other, and you're trying to beat them, attacking them equally one by one will never lead to victory. As long as there are people teabagging at the hatch after winning, I don't think killers will stop tunneling and slugging for the 4K.
You can try looking at this from the survivor's point of view. You know, DbD is not a JRPG where you encounter a party of NPCs. Those are too living people behind the screen, and it's annoying to be tunneled out at the start of the game, and also losing just because your teammate was tunneled out at the start.
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@Sngfun said:
Just like survivors saving their last buddy on endgame you have to deal with it.
Most killers don't do it because it's really boring to look up around the map to find the last survivor.
Usually, at least in soloQ, the slug just starts crawling to the remaining survivor, thus giving away his position. In SWF, of course, it will never happen.
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@bornagain234 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3720494#Comment_3720494
Or the third option, I go play something else
I see constant killer bonus
Yup, taking a break from this game is always a good thing. I just wanted to let you know there is no such thing as survivor-only toxicity or vise versa, soloQ survivors will get trash from both the killer AND teammates, and it's usually more ugly than what you've had, so it's not fair to turn this into the Survivor vs Killer argument. The game has always been toxic and stressful for all players except SWFs, so it's better to avoid it completely if you don't want to get used to it.
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Judging by constant +100% bp for survivors all the time except a few hours in the evening, the killer is by far the more popular role, so there will be no shortage of killers any time soon. So if you feel like playing as killer is too harsh for you, welcome to the survivor solo queue, and see you in a few days in one of those threads where other soloQ survivors are pondering why they even exist in this game.
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@caligraph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719799#Comment_3719799
"against general killer nerfs" they just nerfed every meta perk on killer in the PTB.
It only nerfed those who used those perks, I'm talking about general mechanics that cover all killers, like hatch.
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It's funny how any discussion about survivors giving up on hook instantly turns into survivor vs killer argument, where survivors want to get devs' attention to the core issues of the game, while killer mains just disregard everything and ask devs to punish survivors more.
The sad truth is that killers usually end up winning this contest, in the sense that their side is the one the devs side with after all. The same happened in the previous grand discussion about DC penalties, where killer mains succeeded in making the devs introduce them to the game. I'm afraid the same will happen again, and they will indeed remove the fast way out, so people will just throw the game or stay AFK and thus a new cycle will begin.
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The hatch should just open as soon as there are 2 survivors left and one of them is in the dying state. The killer has won anyway, so it would just save everyone's time. Too bad the devs are against any general nerfs to killers whatsoever.
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You don't.
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Tunneling will always be a thing until they change the core game design, which basically causes it. All those band-aids with perks will not work, since you still win with tunneling even if you eat all of their endurances and DS's, especially on mobile killers. And they won't change the core game design, since it's too much effort and they can't sell the new game design in the cosmetics store. So the only thing you can do is to just stop playing soloQ survivor, or just farm Archive and go next (while avoiding challenges where you have to escape).
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@hailxsatanxeveryxday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718509#Comment_3718509
No, because you're not wasting two perk slots for one effect. You're using two perk slots to get three effects: Self-Care allows you to heal yourself, Botany Knowledge allows you the heal other people much faster than usual (almost a necessity that someone is running one such perk in solo after the medkit/healing nerfs), and then Botany Knowledge makes Self-Care almost as fast as getting healed by another survivor (faster in many cases since you don't have to go chase someone down).
What other perks allow you to do what that combo does?
Strength in Shadows is a stealth killer perk. Every other time I run it, the killer figures out exactly what I am up to and checks the basement next time I'm injured, and it's only good if you spend the majority of the match near the basement. It takes longer to heal than Botany and Self-Care if you have to run from the opposite end of the map, especially if you're trying to mindgame the killer into not figuring out exactly where you're constantly running off to to get healed.
Plot Twist is okay, but it only works once, can't be paired with Unbreakable, and if the killer has an aura perks, you just got hooked instead of getting healed.
Oh, and the name of the one that requires you to cleanse a dull totem first and hide in a locker escapes me (Inner Strength or something like that?) is objectively worse than any of the above in every way just because of the sheer amount of time it takes.
And none of those let you heal another survivor quickly, which is just as important as being able to self-heal in the current meta.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718532#Comment_3718532
Eh. Kill rates don't tell the whole story, but they are a part of the picture. Blight has low kill rates at low MMR because he's very hard to learn, but in high MMR, he's nuts.
Sadako had high kill rates at both high and low MMR very consistently. She was a strong killer across the board. But your argument is a perfect example of what I'm talking about: Sadako just has to be a weak killer in your mind; you're not capable of classifying her anything else, no matter what the numbers say.
If there were statistics that showed her as the most consistent killer in the entire game, some people would still be repeating the mantra, "Sadako is weak. She's an M1 killer. She has no antiloop. Sadako is weak. She's an M1 killer. She has no antiloop. Sadako is weak. She's an M1 killer. She has no antiloop."
On and on and on until the sun burns out.
That's my entire point here.
That version of Sadako doesn't even apply to my argument because she really wasn't using her M1 to get most of her kills, if we're going to be technical. I don't know what the equivalent of R1 is for people who play with keyboard and mouse, but that's the button I got 75% of my kills with, not R2 (M1).
I feel like you're just grasping at straws since Sadako was about as much of an M1 killer at that point as Spirit or Nurse (who technically get their downs with M1, but we don't call them M1 killers because they don't play like M1 killers).
You're using two perk slots to get three effects
That's just one effect: healing. Half of the build for healing. You can get the same without a single perk: with a medkit with a decent teamwork.
three effects
Two: healing yourself and healing others faster. You just repeated "healing yourself" twice.
and then Botany Knowledge makes Self-Care almost as fast as getting healed by another survivor
SC itself takes 45 seconds, half a gen, with Botany it will take about 30 seconds. Being healed by a teammate will take 16 seconds, almost twice as fast. The meta is double-heal after unhook, which takes 8 seconds and 0 perks.
Plot Twist is okay, but it only works once
Twice. And it has a ton of other situational uses. And you are completely silent, while you will be heard self-caring from a mile away. And it circumvents all the healing penalties the killer might apply on you, such as Mangled and slow healing speed.
(Inner Strength or something like that?) is objectively worse than any
of the above in every way just because of the sheer amount of time it
takes.8 seconds in a locker, literal speed of a double-heal. Lockers are everywhere and you are almost silent inside one, and finding one totem is easy enough. Most of the times you need just one, because you need the perk only when you can't find a teammate. And again, circumvents all the healing penalties.
Once again, there is a good reason why Self Care is considered a noob pick. It used to be viable long ago, but not now.
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All offerings should be scrapped, like the whole system, tbh. All of them are either useless or toxic anyway.
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How about addressing the issues that CAUSE people to give up in soloQ, instead of band-aiding the symptoms?
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718510#Comment_3718510
Hatch escape is treated as a draw, so escaping via gate would be better for the survivor. Unless that is also considered a draw.
Yes, it's a draw for the survivor, but the killer's MMR sees no difference, 3k is still a win for him. For killer, draw is 2k.
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@TheArbiter said:
Crossplay off only matches you with others who also have crossplay off. Considering the game defaults to crossplay on the number of people playing with crossplay off is probably less than 1% so loooooong queue times are to be expected
Yes, this is the problem. Instead of implementing it like "with crossplay off you get matched with players from your platform" they did this "you get only matched with other people with crossplay off", which just makes no sense. It seems they did so deliberately, so that people are forced to play with crossplay on. Now if you want to play with only people from your platform, you will be better off just dodging lobbies until you get what you need, it works much better than that "crossplay off" option.
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How can FOV affect the pallet stun distance? Isn't it supposed to be a hitbox-size thing?
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@Shuma said:
The game is way too snowbally for killers. Any minor mistake by a survivor and the game is completely over for the survivor team.
Survivors can tell when the game is over, there’s honestly no reason to keep playing after a point.
Killer is not the same, you can comeback, even with 4 gens and a full team of survivors. That doesn’t happen with survivor.
Making survivors play an obviously lost game makes no sense. The survivors know it’s over and the killer knows it’s over.Also, I would like to mention, on this post, it appears survivor mains are fine with survivors leaving and killer mains are the ones getting all upset that survivors are doing this.
Also, I would like to mention, on this post, it appears survivor mains
are fine with survivors leaving and killer mains are the ones getting
all upset that survivors are doing this.It's a well-known fact. The fact that survivors can just leave the game and deny the killer the pleasure of asserting himself at survivor's expense shatters the ego of those who like to abuse in-game mechanics for these kind of goals. The main requesters of DC penalty were killer mains, but now they see that instead of DCing survivors can just let go on hook (this consequence was obvious for everyone but killer mains), so they ask for more measures for those who dare to dodge their ego pumping.
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You already win with 3k, MMR literally sees no difference between 3k and 4k. Why do you feel the need to go out of your way to make the life even more miserable for the last remaining survivors?
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Unironically using Self-Care now, after all the thousands of nerfs, is just mathematically wrong. Literally any other self-healing perk is better. Even with Botany, you just waste 2 perk slots for something achievable with one or zero. So if it is considered meta in Japan, it probably tells that the game community there is small and the meta is not yet developed there. The same goes for the lack of tunneling: tunneling one survivor out of the game early is a guaranteed way to win for the killer, if they don't do it in Japan, it most likely means the benefits of tunneling are not yet so obvious there.
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@alaenyia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717124#Comment_3717124
Bully SWFs make up less than 3% of the survivor base. So you think the game should be balanced around this tiny fraction of players so that killers can just BM the heck out of the other 97%. And I do not disagree with the people saying sometimes slugging it the correct play, etc. But 4-way slugging is NEVER the correct play and should not even be allowed in the game. One or 2 folks slugged to slow things down or prevent wiggle off with sabo's, OK. 3 people slugged, no hooks and looking for 4th for the bleed out is unacceptable.
Where did you get that info about 3%? I get them in every other game whenever I play with anyone other than my main killer.
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@spirit72 said:
Matchmaking in this game is a potato. Always has been, always will be, and it's sort of a waste of time to even discuss it anymore. It would be better if they made it just completely random with no qualifications at all.
Old rank based matchmaking was much better, at least it was transparent, and survivors were actually incentivized to play well in order to pip instead of hiding all game with Sole Survivor. However ridiculous it might sound, old ranks were a better indicator of skill than the current MMR.
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@Souplet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717747#Comment_3717747
I mostly play killer
You can't even begin to imagine the amount of player that give up really early
Its definitely higher on killer like nurse or SM. But it does happen with low tier killers aswell
Its not fun for either side, i dont find it fun to crush a match because 1 or 2 people give up at 5 gens
>Picks an obviously broken killer who just denies all game logic, or an obviously obnoxious killer who can make the game a 50-minute long standstill
>Gets surprised when people leave
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Wraith when I want to chill. Blight when I want to win.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/413937/what-exactly-is-an-early-game-collapse
Basically a mechanic that got talked about for a while to not make Corrupt Intervention needed, because otherwise especially on larger maps the killer might not even find somebody before a Gen pops.
Scott Jund for example talked about it years ago and it is only a general concept not a concrete idea. Ideas that were mentioned in that context were for example all gens are blocked until a. You enter chase with a survivor b. Someone loses a health state or c. X amount of time passes.
The purpose was to give setup killers some time to do their stuff without losing half the gens while giving low mobility killers the opportunity to find someone and start chase before gens pop.
The debate was dropped and BHVR said that they dropped the concept, there was a time when they apparently thought about something like that.
The purpose was to give setup killers some time to do their stuff
No, the purpose was to make soloQ completely unplayable even against weak killers.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717604#Comment_3717604
"Like I already said: Good luck trying to prove they are throwing the game.
Imagine if "playing bad" was a reportable offense? Is there a game that does that? lmao"
HAHAHAHHAHA
Yeah, literally every other game. This game has mmr, so it can detect based on previous behavior if you are throwing the match. But that's kinda not true because they also encourage game ruining challenges and behavior.
Also games saved by 4% vs games ruined by it are so uncompilable it's beyond laughable you brought it up.
MMR can detect throwing the game? How? If dying several times in a row is considered "throwing", then they will ban all soloQ players.
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@Marioneo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717037#Comment_3717037
if you have 30 reasons why its so bad why are you still playing this game then? Genuinely you need to move from this game fr
The game is fun except the occasions when it is frustrating. Everyone wants to have fun and skip the frustrating part.
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@TheTom20 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717308#Comment_3717308
how do you feel about survivors giving up when they are winning?
for example killer has 0 hooks an there is 1 gen left to do someone goes on first hook an insta gives up?1 gen left with 0 hooks? To be honest, I can't even remember the last time I had this situation in soloQ (except AFK killer games, of course), let alone with someone giving up there.
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@TheTom20 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717297#Comment_3717297
Well it is unwinnable if you an your team don't make any effort lol you literally refuse to even make the minimal effort so the games are unwinnable because of you.
When you load against a pumpkin head nurse who never misses a shot, or against an A-tier killer with 4 slowdowns as soloQ, or 2 of your teammates are on the ground within the first minute of the trial, or if your teammates sandbag you in the most obnoxious ways, or if the killer gets the 4th or 5th hook without any generator done, usually these scenarios are already won by the killer, so it would be just plain good manners to give up and stop wasting everyone's time. In chess, it's customary to surrender when you see that your opponent is guaranteed to win in the current position, and if you push the game to the obvious checkmate - it would seem inappropriate, as if you are just wasting time out of spite. So think of this as of chess etiquette in DbD: survivors say "good job, killer, you won", shake hands and go next.
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Sounds like negativity bias. You came up with this conclusion and so notice it much more. In reality people who play deliberately to mine salt usually have open profiles with open comments, so that their victims can add a "-rep" there. In my personal experience most of troll survivors who cooperate with killers were people from consoles with shown nicknames. Two times when I was sold out to the killer by my teammate and then had the unhook animation spammed were console players with shown nicknames. Plain useless survivors are usually with shown nicknames too, not just from consoles. Can't remember any outstanding trolls with anonymous mode in my games: I'm sure there were some troll teammates with anon mode too, but they didn't seem any different from the usual troll soloQ teammates, so I don't remember anyone in particular.
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This game was never supposed to be balanced. It's still a mystery why someone decided to call DbD a "competitive sports-like game" and slap MMR & DC penalty on it. This ridiculous contradiction is a source of a great deal of frustration.
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If you want to start EGC - you can open the gates yourself. Stop demanding from the game to do everything for you.
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I agree, the devs must do something with this madness! Buffing soloQ would be a nice place to start.
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@dknb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717218#Comment_3717218
Deja Vu rework was last June. It's been less than a year.
He is surely being sarcastic. Deja Vu makes 90s gens into 85s gens, while their fair gauge was 80s. So it doesn't even return them to the fair state, it just shaves mere 5 seconds, so nobody can seriously call it "OP".
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SoloQ is already as abysmal as it has ever been, you want gens to take 120 seconds now? If you nerf survivors a bit more, the new soloQ meta will be No Mither + Plot Twist with instant dying state on trial load for a peaceful death in a corner, and the winners will be those who successfully bleed out before the killer finds them.
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@alaenyia said:
Bhvr REALLY needs to cut loose with the built-in unbreakable we were told was coming like a year ago. This repeated, multiple team mate slugging until death is ridiculous. I also think there should never be more than 2 slugs. a 3rd goes down the 1st pops back up. Slugging a whole team and BMing them for 4 min should just never be a possibility.
Only after they remove all 15 extra health states for survivors. Slugging works so fine because most of survivors' god-mode perks, which they like to abuse for bodyblocking, activate after unhooks, and some really BMing perks work only when you pick up a body. The infamous sabo build many bully squads abuse is also countered by slugging and by slugging only, and I don't need to remind you about flashlight saves. They gave survivors so much literal immunity that slugging seems to be the only viable option how to play against SWF and not feel miserable and humiliated for the whole trial.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717068#Comment_3717068
Still better off creating incentives. Punishing camping or tunneling would require a major rebalance of the game.
Practice shows incentives are never enough. You give them a bonus for not tunneling, and they tunnel anyway, while still getting the bonus. Why hook all 4 survivors one after another, when you can just tunnel one out and THEN hook the rest one after another? So "incentives" will only give them optional bonus they will get after tunneling anyway. They either have to make such actions unfeasible, like with teleporting hooks, or punish for them enough to outweigh the value they get by removing one survivor, which is quite high, so the punishment should be harsh.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716831#Comment_3716831
I mean, unless you're being tunneled, you don't really get value.
If you can heal up and go do a Conspicuous Action, then you're just left with pre-buff OTR which really isn't that good. Deadlock on the other hand is Generator Slowdown where you need it the most, completely automatically with zero input.
Yup, it's not like they have collision under endurance and can just bodyblock the killer to protect their teammates, thus giving them one extra health state, right? Devs surely wouldn't allow such an abuse! Wait a minute…
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@Rivyn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716793#Comment_3716793
Both of which are going to increase now that popular gen defense perks are getting nerfed and saboing becomes easier.
Don't forget about slugging, the only counter to sabo builds.
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Waste 60 seconds AND get No Mither just to make the gens return to their usual 80 seconds? It's like just equipping No Mither and standing AFK for a minute back in the day when gens were 80s, I don't remember this being meta back then.
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@vBlossom_ said:
hardly anyone complains about Deadlock
That's false, this perk gives value for nothing and incentivises camping / tunneling.
OTR also gives value for nothing, and yet it's nowhere near being nerfed.
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I randomly get teammates with 50 hours to teammates with 2000 hours. Killers all tend to be between 200 and 2000 hours. Those are not just numbers, they all play accordingly: you can get the infamous green sweater Bill from console who dies within 15 seconds matched with you against a pumpkin head nurse who doesn't miss a single hit, all in the same trial. And in the next game you can get a p100 teammate against an almost perkless doctor who can't land a hit when you are literally in front of him. It's a common knowledge now that matchmaking just doesn't work.
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Try playing soloQ survivor and see for yourself how "quick" gens get done there. After they made them 90 seconds, a soloQ game against 4 slowdowns is a lost cause. This is the main reason behind the recent rise in "self unhook attempts and missed checkpoints on the hook", btw.