Junylar
Junylar
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- Junylar
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Aanyone got any ideas
How about this: instead of banning people for missed skillchecks we fix the damn game and stop soloQ from being a horrible experience, which is exactly the cause of all the giving up.
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Hooks in general are an outdated mechanic and should be reworked completely.
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@UndeddJester said:
Well, you're throwing me under the bus by putting me in a 3vs1, so I'm gonna make sure I can keep you here just a little longer to annoy you, maybe you'll actually DC and I'll get a bot.
Also 30s extra to kill you is 30s extra for my team to do gens. It's absolutely in my best interest to prevent you from leaving as much as humanly possibly.
By saving a gonexter you turn 3v1 into 3v1v1.
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@BubMickey07 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728261#Comment_3728261
That really sucks but at least they're paying the artists what they deserve... or at least they better be.
They definitely pay their investors what they deserve.
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We definitely need some official commentary on this. If it's not a bug, BHVR just outdid themselves.
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Here is my change:
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So you can do a whole gen and a third in godmode? Cool.
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@Sarrif said:
Learn from your mistakes, 4 man swf groups still have a less than 50% escape rate.
Only according to BHVR, the most trustworthy source in the universe, who only published the stats a couple of times in 8 years, in a form of some pictures, instead of supplying all game stats live 24/7, like other devs do. In my experience, SWFs have 50% escape rate only when I play strong killers and sweat the hell out of it, including hardcore tunneling, and still all the gens are usually done. Those 2 kills are taken with tooth and nail and I have to take a rest after every such game. In other cases one kill is the most one could hope for against a 4man who don't just goof around, but mostly it's 4 escapes for M1 killers. Most other killer players have a similar experience, so the real praxis somehow does not match with BHVR's "stats" for some reason.
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Sometimes (quite often) when I'm running through a pallet and spam the crap out of my spacebar all the way through, I'm still getting downed and nothing happens, as if the pallet just ignores all my spacebar spam. When this happens, it definitely adds to the "I just wanna go next now" factor.
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The right play is not to let them do 5 gens.
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Play a hundred games as soloQ survivor and describe your experience here, please.
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@PreorderBonus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727248#Comment_3727248
True, I forgot that BHVR promised that when you play survivor, you'd be able to run the killer for 5 gens and then escape. So, of course, when that doesn't happen and instead they get downed in 40 seconds, my teammates are allowed to leave. It's not their fault, it was BHVR!
Nice strawman.
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@ChaosWam said:
The problem is one I continue to echo over and over: Killers are too varied in power and the stats we get are due to top tier killers doing well, low tier killers scraping by, and a looooooooooooooooooooooooot of getting out of the game off first hook.
Anyone who does a generalized sweeping opinion of killers linking them to killrates without mentioning that not every killer is Nurse, I tend to ignore because it's generalizing one of the bigger issues of the game. You make a sweeping nerf of all killers and the low tiers suffer while the high tiers kinda shrug it off.
The difference between the 4 slowdown nurse with meta addons and a perkless addonless trapper is similar to the difference between SWF and soloQ, if not lower. So it works both ways.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726686#Comment_3726686
See that's just it. DC's leading to losses for survivors has nothing to do with the game's balance. This is probably why the devs are going for a 60% kill rate, because the hook suicides inflate the kill rates. Even though I do think the kill rate should be closer to 55%.
Also, not sure about others, but I don't get a dc every third game. They are rather rare compared to hook suicides.
This is probably why the devs are going for a 60% kill rate, because the hook suicides inflate the kill rates
I think you are mistaking the cause for the effect here. Don't you think it's because the devs for some reason decided that "balance" is 60% kill rate instead of 50%, soloQ survivors sometimes can't take this mathematically killer-sided balance and therefore go next more often?
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They have buffed totem placements about ten time already. The problem of hexes is SWF, where if one survivor saw a totem -everyone saw it. In soloQ games hexes can stand until endgame, especially if you care enough to defend them.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725161#Comment_3725161
It's because they want you to rescue people instead of leaving them to die
So we are getting competitive hook rushes with nobody doing gens in soloQ, because doing gens is just not worth it bp-wise.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726414#Comment_3726414
Why do you care about MMR..?
The lower your survivor MMR - the higher the chance of getting potato teammates in soloQ.
The higher your killer MMR - the higher the chance of getting SWF sweat-squads in killer queue.
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725161#Comment_3725161
Are you sure about the numbers?
You can check it on wiki.
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If your escape rate in soloQ is even remotely near 39%, I must say you are one lucky soloQ survivor.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726309#Comment_3726309
and oddly enough it seems to be as popular - or even more popular - than the normal game mode. — My takeaway is: flawed and inherently unbalanced is what people still enjoy more than maximised optimisation. - Imo, Items/Add-ons should also be random, which would already help with some issues, e.g. BNP and some add-ons that are borderline OP and thus unfair. Which would leave excessive camping/tunneling and excessive stealth as non-interactive/non-dynamic playstyles that need to be addressed.
I don't know about everyone, but I mostly play this mode for two reasons: bp bonus and the ability to die in soloQ and safely win as killer without affecting my MMR. I guess a lot of others are the same: people enjoy this mode because it helps with the grind and you don't suffer from MMR. This could be any other mode whatsoever, even if they just made a plain copy of the regular mode with these two properties, it would be much more popular than the regular one.
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Recently I had a game with a 30 hour survivor and a 3000 hour survivor simultaneously. Yup, MMR is definitely working as intended.
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BHVR dev actually playing the game? No way!
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@BubMickey07 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725771#Comment_3725771
Thats like saying "oh you want sidney prescott? Go watch scream we're playing dbd"... that's DUMB
RPD is objectively the worst map in the game, and the two RE killers have powers incentivizing tunneling (besides being your typical anti-loop powers, which got old long ago), so we can surely do without more.
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That's how BHVR works. Only those who were disconnected by legitimate reasons ever have to deal with DC penalty.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3724359#Comment_3724359
If it's legit reasons then they can eat the dc penalty. The penalty is very lax, if you have to give up to the point where you can't play because of legit reasons you really shouldn't be playing. If you have to dodge 3 times daily, I don't really seem how you can complain about the total of 20 min if even timer you get for it. It's absurd to think it's ok to freely ruin other people's game on whim in a pvp game.
So you are completely okay with the idea that DC penalty is only eaten by those who have legitimate reasons to quit? Because real quitters can just die and go next, without penalty. -
If you want to play more of RE, you can play RE. We would like to play DbD instead.
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It's a wonder why hook farming still gives you more bloodpoints than a whole gen. For one unhook you get 1500 bp + 250 bp for just approaching the hook, for one FULL GEN you get 1250, while the latter takes 90 seconds and the former just a few seconds. If you are playing for bp, doing gens will be the last thing you will do as it's the slowest way of gaining them.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3724797#Comment_3724797
For the vast, vast majority this does not happen. It's nice you're not refering all the times people give up because they got downed once, or decoded they don't want to play. It's a subjective belief that people often exaggerate and use as an excuse. The reason its repeated is because the reasoning doesn't change and it's a valid response. Validity isn't a trend you can shift along.
Also, I will continue to use the "strawman" comment that if someone is repeatedly doing this then they should play something else, or - and this is perhaps a more lenient solution - dump repeated quitters together with each other to play games amongst themselves. Again, this is a valid argument because why play something you'd repeatedly give up on.
Finally, if my team mates are deliberately screwing me over, I gather the evidence and send it over as a report. I've had reports come back to me saying an action has been taken (which I know doesn't always mean it was because of that specific report)but shows it's worked.
Basically, I'll keep my stance on this, I have seen people end themselves far more for petty reasons than not, and if a position has been maintained for years - as you say - there's a good reason why.
Anyway, I'll leave it here. These discussions can get animated and I prefer not to waste my time on back and forth arguments where neither side would ultimately agree or meet in the middle. I don't get that vibe from yiu and know I won't be changing any time soon regarding this opinion.
For the vast, vast majority this does not happen
Although there are people who just quit without reason, one should not equalize them to every occasion when this happens. Once again, you don't see what the other person sees: once you are downed, you literally see all your teammates' auras, and at this moment you can sometimes know for sure the game is lost, just by one screenshot. And with the new HUD, you even know when nobody has touched a gen for a minute since the start, for example. Some people quitting with no reason does not mean everyone does it and that there cannot be any reason at all.
Finally, if my team mates are deliberately screwing me over, I gather
the evidence and send it over as a report. I've had reports come back to
me saying an action has been taken (which I know doesn't always mean it
was because of that specific report)but shows it's worked.It's nice that you have time and dedication for all of this, but not every player records every game and stays just in order to "gather evidence", some people play just for fun and can't spare the time and effort for all of those. And also, you can't report your teammates for "being useless".
I prefer not to waste my time on back and forth arguments where neither side would ultimately agree or meet in the middle
And yet you just did it.
regarding this opinion
My opinion has always been quite simple: DbD just cannot be a sports discipline due to the nature of this game. Most players play for fun, and when they have to suffer - they usually want to end the suffering quickly instead of enduring it in full. I personally never took the game so seriously, and don't mind when someone in my game DCs or goes next. Because firstly, it doesn't bother me as it's just a game, and secondly, I have enough experience to know that usually there is a reason for this, and more often than not the game where someone quit was already lost by that time. And I know for a fact that just "removing the kobe" will not fix anything, as the core reason is the game itself, and not some "evil quitters". If you blame some phenomena just on people's mentality, you usually come to the tautology of "people are evil because people are evil", thus actually saying nothing and solving nothing.
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3724773#Comment_3724773
I dont care whatveer person it says. They think thats the deal and everybody can see the resemblence of this action. Its trying to harassment, there is nothing to discuss. If you think you can excuse such behaviour, its up to you. But we live in 2024.
Resemblance of the action? It's just walking on someone, as simple as that. To be honest, I even had no idea some people may take it as what you describe until I've read it on the forums. I guess it just depends on your own perception.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3724733#Comment_3724733
Chess is a 1v1 game. In games like LoL where you are on a team, you have a vote surrender.
There's no valid excuse for giving up and screwing over your own teammates. If you don't want to play out games of DBD, then don't queue up in the first place.
Chess is a 1v1 game. In games like LoL where you are on a team, you have a vote surrender.
Well, the surrender vote is still not implemented in DbD (although it is in some DbD clones), and the killer is one player who also can't surrender. It just shows how far DbD is from being completely thought-through in this regard. Also, until MMR starts counting survivors as a whole team (as some DbD clones do) instead of 1v1v1v1v1, I refuse to think of survivors as of a team too. After all, MMR shows the intention of the devs much more clearly than anything else: if the devs think that survivors are not a team, than who are we to argue with them?
There's no valid excuse for giving up and screwing over your own
teammates. If you don't want to play out games of DBD, then don't queue
up in the first place.It's nice how you completely ignored everything said above and decided to repeat the same phrase that has been repeated for years, all over again. If seeing your teammates doing absolutely nothing or even screwing you over is not a good enough reason to go next - then I don't know what a "waste of time" is according to you. And please, stop using this strawman about "you don't like all games of DbD in general", nobody said anything about "not wanting to play games of DbD", we are speaking about a very specific kind of games.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3724705#Comment_3724705
It is very entitled to queue up for a PvP game and dropping out, because X didn't go the way the you wanted it to.
When in chess you see that your opponent has a winning position and you surrender instead of prolonging the game to the obvious checkmate, does it make you "entitled, because the game didn't go the way you wanted to"? By the way, most of chess games end up with surrenders, because the defeat is usually obvious several moves before the actual checkmate.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3724604#Comment_3724604
Solo Queue would win more games if people weren't so quick to rage quit over what ever minor annoyance got to them.
I've had several good nights of solo queue where I got matched with decent players who didn't quit at the drop of a hat.
You mistake the cause for the consequence. In your good soloQ games nobody quits precisely because they are good games, so there is no reason to quit. When survivors quit, it's usually because the game has a minuscule chance of a win, and therefore they decide it's not worth it staying here. The game is already bad and that causes survivors to quit as soon as they realize. And it might not be so obvious to you, and might seem as if the survivor let go with no reason, but that survivor just might have a better game sense, or seen something you didn't see, like auras of the other 2 teammates doing nothing, or one teammate staying AFK for a minute since the trial loaded, or he might have been sandbagged, or he was on a gen with the console Bill in green sweater who was missing skillchecks, and so on.
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A killer that can counter any loop cannot be called "the worst killer".
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If only they started doing double shard or double XP events instead.
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Genrushing is not a killer or survivor problem, it's SWF problem. In soloQ, genrushing does not happen. So you have to look in this SWF vs soloQ direction if you want something actually fixed, not in "killer vs survivor".
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723759#Comment_3723759
One bad chase at the beginning does not lose you the game as survivor. So often enough, people do give up for the most ridiculous reasons.
As a rule of thumb, two hooks before two gens = ez win for the killer.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717124#Comment_3717124
There can only be 1 extra health state for Survivors because of the (partially foolish) Deep Wound change. There should be unlimited stacking Endurance for anti-tunnel, but DH/Styptic stacking has long been dead. All of these 'god mode perks' are disabled by the Killer using their brain for more than 3 miliseconds by targeting the remaining 75% of the lobby. Heck, someone just unhooked that person, and the Killer can bypass these anti-tunnel protections by targeting a bare minimum of 50% of the people they know the location of instead. I don't understand how this is such a herculean task for so many people. Even if I turn off my brain, I can still win that worst-case coinflip the majority of the time without even trying.
As far as sabo, the maps are designed so that you need 3 sabos before the Killer is remotely threatened, and the Killer can still simply drop the Survivor safely. Even if we were to go to the extreme and pretend everyone is bringing Mettle of Man, that still means they gave the Killer 3 free hits, and 3 heals taking 16*3 or 48s total, not even to mention the travel time between the protections and heals. If I have someone giving me a free minute being useless instead of pumping gens, I praise them for being a goof. If I lose to that, I'm only potentially humiliated at being so bad that I lost an effective 3v1 from the start.
There can only be 1 extra health state for Survivors because of the (partially foolish) Deep Wound change.
1 from endurance, 1 from a teammate bodyblocking with endurance, 1 with DS, 1 with styptic, 1 with FTP, 1 with endurance from FTP, 1 from a flashlight save, 1 from a Boil Over + Breakout combo, 1 from a sabo teammate, and I probably missed a few. So just earning a single hook might take you a dozen of hits in total if you play against SWF.
targeting the remaining 75% of the lobby
If you spread the hooks, you loose miserably with 8 hooks and 4 escapes (and a bunch of teabags at the gate, too).
As far as sabo, the maps are designed so that you need 3 sabos before the Killer is remotely threatened
Play a few games against a 4man and then you will have some idea how it actually works. Because reading
and the Killer can still simply drop the Survivor safely
makes it clear that you never actually played against those kind of players. Pro tip: if you drop a survivor you have been carrying for a while, instead of falling on the ground he instantly wiggles off. That's how it works.
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@MaddieMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723129#Comment_3723129
This is exactly the problem with this community. The idea that you want to be able to “retaliate” at someone because of the perks/items they’re given by the devs, rather than saying you need “counters” shows the mindset of yourself and so many others. Yes a lot of people engage in toxic behaviors just to be toxic like BM on hook, teabagging, flashlight clicking, humping on ground etc.
But the amount of times I’ve seen people on here get so angry when buffs are announced for one side that they say “FINE NOW IM GONNA PLAY LIKE THIS!” and it’s usually a way to retaliate or make the game miserable for the other player is mind blowing. Taking changes that the game developers make that you don’t like and taking that anger out on the players in the game is the foundation of what’s wrong.
This community is no different than any other, it's the game that is different. Yes, toxicity will breed toxicity, and the devs actively decide against taking away this aspect of the game. They surely know how maddening it can be to go against a 4man with sabo builds, and yet here they are, buffing sabo builds. When you get treated like crap by the other team, you will want to retaliate, and DbD community no different in this regard than any other. So up to now it's how the game has been designed: both sides have ways to ruin all the fun for the other side, and the spiral will continue. And I'm saying it all not as a "killer main", since I always play the role that gives +100% bp at the moment, so I've seen it from both sides. If the devs wanted to stop this toxicity contest - they would just remove flashlights, sabo builds, hook denial builds, head on and so on, and force survivors to play without mocking the killer, and then address the issue of tunneling and all kinds of BM from the killer side, but all of this is the opposite of what the devs seem to wish from their game. You could repeat the mantra of "it's part of the game so it's okay", but everyone knows why players usually use these builds and tactics and how it makes the other side feel. When you lose your hard-earned hook to a bully squad with buffed sabo builds, you will feel the wish to retaliate one way or another: you were intentionally annoyed, so you will want to return the favor. And any other game community would behave the same given the same conjuncture, it's just that all other game development companies usually avoid allowing players openly make each other feel miserable by in-game means, so it's BHVR and DbD who are unique here, not the community.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723127#Comment_3723127
So then one must ask, would we be removing flashlights? Because they'd serve no purpose at all.
Also, those buffs aren't equivalent. Basekit enduring is psychotic.
These are equivalent buffs: you want to protect survivors from killers' scummy playstyle, so it's only fair killers also get some protection against survivors' scummy playstyles.
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@Depressed_Millenial said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723129#Comment_3723129
I'm literally a killer main and literally address why killers do it. So maybe read the post first instead of making it us vs them.
I play both roles, and when I play killer and some survivor decides to use his BT/OTR to bodyblock, he is most likely getting tunneled right after that. Whenever I see a flashlight lobby, my loadout switches to the slugging build. Whenever a survivor decides to sabo, another survivor has to stay on the ground. And of course a few toxic teabags will increase the probability of some juicy end-game bleedout, maybe even with some back massage at that. So yeah, I know exactly why killers do all of this. Most of this is counter to what survivors do, with the only exception of instant tunneling from the start: that's just a cheap ez win strat that hasn't been fixed for 8 years.
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Meanwhile: flashlights, flashbangs, blast mines, head-on, boil over + breakout, sabo, pallet saves and teabagging exist, not to mention OTR and basekit BT used for bodyblocking. So until all of this is removed, what you described should stay as some kind of retaliation killers can have.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722886#Comment_3722886
Basekit DS would be great, but I think these buffs you suggest would require some compensation buffs on the killers side as well.
I would agree for basekit 3-second DS in exchange for basekit Lightborn and Enduring.
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Pro tip for the upcoming meta among killers: Deer Stalker is not actually that good. The power of slugging is that it saves you time, so you don't need to camp bodies and instead should seek new prey to apply pressure, and even if you need to go back to one of the slugs, you will remember general location of it and they won't be able to crawl far under Knockout anyway. Not to mention you will definitely see the pick-upers running to them from a mile away. So here you are, just freed you a perk slot in the upcoming meta build!
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The funniest thing is that it didn't happen in the first day, so it actually took them a day to realize that they can tunnel at will now.
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Agreed. Even in competitive they count hooks instead of kills, and consecutive hooks for the same survivor give you less points.
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Just finished the challenge as killer, the glyphs were all over the place. Apparently this challenge just doesn't work for survivors anymore, even though it still can be picked by survivors.
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You didn't explain how they stop tunneling in this mode. You can play a perkless killer and still have your ez wins just by tunneling alone, which almost all killers do now at least since the 2nd day of the event.
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@dknb said:
I wish the kill rate would be 80%.
Then I could uninstall it and say goodbye forever.It is probably near 80%, they just don't count games where someone DCs.
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@alaenyia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718296#Comment_3718296
From Bhvr , and you are deluding yourself if you think you are going against 4-man swf even 25% of the time.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/D1RS41QR087A/dbd-stats.jpg
From Bhvr
Yup, a very reputable source indeed.
you are deluding yourself if you think you are going against 4-man swf even 25% of the time.
Sure, you know what my games look like better than me. I definitely get SWFs in more than half of my killer games. Even if that 100% accurate picture is true, my killers might just be near high MMR, where all SWFs are concentrated, while most of soloQ players are stuck in ELO hell. That could be one explanation.