Icaurs
Icaurs
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055089#Comment_3055089
Never read a post that was so wrong. Go on though.
I don't think my posts are ever beyond criticism. I make posts expecting at least some people to disagree with me every single time. its to be expected. I don't really care what you have to say. Its neither intelligent nor adds to the conversation. But what is interesting is 4 people took the time like your post. Which while I have not read every single post in this discussion, 4 upvotes is still above the norm.
A post.. that offers nothing, but a toxic attitude. Showing that a good portion of the people on this discussion are not looking for discussion, but are looking for people of their tribe, to feel validated, because people are saying the things they want to hear.
And people seriously wonder why the discourse of DBD is so broken.
What's even more interesting, is I saw a second post with another exactly the same 4 upvotes. It would be interesting if the same 4 people who liked your previous post, liked this one.
But either way. Thank you for standing as example as to why DBD has one of the largest divides in gaming communities.
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From a design POV the Nurse is excellent. Powerful, creepy, unique. The sort of thing that I would watch a movie about TBH.
However DBD is no longer based around style, but balance. In that sense there is no justification for the nurse.
- Her counter does not exist. For people who say "Do this to counter Nurse." just... no. Nurse no longer has a counter. Her original counter was stealth. Using the mist, combined with the darker lighting gave survivors the ability to blend in with their environment. That's why survivors could beat 8 blink Nurses. Although TBH it wasn't really enough. But that's how you beat her. You never let her see you, and if she did, you need to break chase before she hit you, using the darker environment. Maps use to be bigger to justify this. With maps reworked and lighting much brighter the counter to Nurse, simply does not exist anymore.
- game balance is held back because of her. The entirety of DBD, needs to be based around ensuring Nurse is beatable. Which is bad design, when she is so far above the rest of the killers. Perks that are perfectly balanced, become way to overpowered, just on her. Infectious fright, starstruck. These sorts of perks are fine on most killers, sure they are better on some, then others. But nurse is the only one they are overpowered on, and killers are held back on the buffs they need because some killers like Nurse are simply so far removed form the norm, they have to remain weaker, holding back the weaker the killers. Survivors are the same, but survivors need the overpowered perks in order to beat her.
- The current strategy to beat a legitimately good nurse is to gen rush. Its the only method to counter her downing speed. You simply do the gens too fast for her to get the hooks, thus Nurses have started running infectious fright to counter this and slug everyone until they all go down and get one hooked.
She is bad for balance and is holding DBD back from natural progression, despite the legitimate fun I find with her.
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A Simple end game statistics for each player would be fairly implementation that would go a long way to showing how a match went to evaluate it.
For survivors
People's hooks, time spend on gens, time chased, chests opened, bones broken, when in a match a person died. pallets used.
For killers
time chased, gen times, who were SWF.
The information should be available to everyone. Currently it only shows people's totals scores and can be very misleading and I don't think it would be too difficult to implement something like this.
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In a perfect world. I think all killers should be able to levitate.
Also I want all killers to run around saying BOOOOO. Like this
Ghost Wail and Boo Sound Effect!Download MP3: https://static.wixstatic.com/mp3/0f416b_eb35b346288e4a548e1296639e31eda7.mp3#shorts #ghost #boo----------------...I doubt this will ever happen... but one can dream.
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Survivor has two massive problems.
The first problem is that DBD is treated like a competitive game. Its this expectation that everyone is playing the game objectively "too win." For killers, how you choose to play the match is entirely up to you because there are no rules on how to play the game. This results in people in part of the community playing DBD competitively (focusing on balance) and part of it focusing on outlandish fun, wanting wildly unbalanced gameplay.
Because DBD wasn't suppose to be taken seriously it was marketed as a wacky party game. It was only a few years later when the community pushed back on the devs, demanding nerfs to just about everything that the focus of DBD shifted to one of a competitive design. As a result the community was torn, between those who treated DBD like a joke, and those took it seriously. The devs didn't want to put in hard rules like any other competitive game on what each player was expected to do. Thus survivors were allowed to farm, sandbag or kill or their teammates and escape through hatch. All of these were considered perfectly fine in a game where you need your teammates in order to win. This is why buffing solo Q does not matter. Solo Q is fine, when your teammates take the game seriously. But you could give solo survivors basekit, ds, kindred, unbreakable and dead hard, and I promise you they would still lose more then SWF, who have a shared goal every match.
The second and biggest problem that is also easiest to fix, survivors are bored. Survivor has not changed in years. Not the way you play it or what kit you use, nothing. The devs don't want to risk introducing strong perks. Majority of the survivors new perks are either weak or or simply jokes. Survivors have been forced to run the same things, and have actually lost strategies, as survivors keep being nerfed all the time. This post isn't about balance, so that's not the point of this. However it is undeniable that survivors have less tools and strategies available to them. I mean its extremely rare for a game to lose to strategies over time, but it does happen and for good reasons usually. But survivors have lost so many and they refuse to introduce more. So survivors either end up running joke builds, that end up ruining the match for any survivors playing to win. Or they run serious builds all the time and quickly get bored due to the lack of options and start throwing matches trying to keep the match interesting.
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having tools, even basic ones can have massive buffs for the survivors.
The problem comes from the fact that chests will generally only offer the weak items by default. The justification being that they don't want survivors wining matches based entirely on a luck of a chest. The issue with this is that the default items are so weak, they are actually more punishing to bother wasting the time looting the chest then the benefit of the item. Currently the item only worth the time looting the chest for is medkits. Flashlights are to easy to counter and toolboxes shave off only a little amount of time. I understand that matches should not be determined by RNG luck, but at the same time there needs to be an actual reason for survivors to loot chests.
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The problem with DBD challenges if the fact you can only do one at any given time. This means that you effectively forced to focus on that challenge until completed, which is bad design because many of the challenges are very specific will rarely come across naturally. Challenges like "drop 30 pallets." Playing normal DBD that's maybe 6-7 matches. Pretty easy but with so many challenges and some being legitimately tricky you will want to get through the grind challenges as fast as possible, so you throw pallets early, get the killers attention (ect). shortening it to maybe 2-3 matches These things can end up throwing a match and is very unfair for the other players.
The worst example ae challenges that involving hook saves. There are only ever a maximum of 6 unhooks available per match. Its simply not enough for those challenges to exist and so people resort to farming with BT. Or worse the break 20 totem challenges. With 5 totems per match, a minimum 4 match challenge, even longer if your teammates come across any totems at all.
challenges are great and can be really fun, but if they ever reach a point that other players are being negatively affected people attempting these challenges, then they are not well designed and need to be reworked.
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If your willing to wait 30 minutes then sure, that seems like a fair feature. But I doubt majority of people are willing to wait that long, so I doubt they would implement something like that.
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That's a connection issue, not a balance issue. TBH it affects both killer and survivor pretty bad.
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Yikes.. that would cause some salty responses.
I mean balance wises even if I agreed that it wouldn't affect survivors enough for it not to exist. That jus sounds... so frustrating.
I would expect a lot of disconnects if that was a feature.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3042426#Comment_3042426
Goddamn, man, you jumped to ad hominems real fast.
I don't have the patience to sift through this entire mass when about half of it is passive-aggression and making up your own bad arguments that you can attack instead of actually addressing what was said. I'm just going to hit one or two points. You attacked the other person for saying facecamping isn't an issue that can be fixed without damaging killer agency. In your eyes, this is defending and making excuses for it and you apparently missed the part they said it was bad sportsmanship, ergo they do not support it at all. Like, even in the original post you decided to get mad at @Seraphor for, they talked about several things survivors rightfully hate being subjected to - just as many such things as on the killer side - but all you're getting out of this is KILLER BAD. Actually, it's really ironic that your argument is that survivors can do whatever they want and that's strategy and killers just have to suck it up, but when killers do it, it's miserable and unfun. You're coming across as a photo negative of the toxic killer entitlement you're complaining about.
Alright. Whatever. I'm digressing. Here's my question. How would you penalize facecamping without damaging the other more fair or necessary situations where the killer is around the hook? I don't really care what you think of camping on the whole; if someone is hiding near the hook, or every member of the team is waiting around the area, or everyone is stealthing, or the gates are open, there is zero reason for the killer to go somewhere else. Punishing them in situations where leaving is an objectively bad move is not fair, and savvy survivors will take advantage of stuff like frozen timers or disabled powers to loop around the hook. Here's the deal you're missing; it's really easy to scream about absolutes when you don't actually have to come up with a solution, versus the real issue that every time BHVR's tried to address this, it either didn't really do anything to fix the problem (see: the new 5-second BT and how utterly ineffective it is) or created another issue.
Like, before you call me toxic and a horrible camping killer main and whatever, I hate facecamping and I despise the people that do it for kicks. But I can't figure out a way to fix it. I've noodled on a few solutions for Bubba in particular, but actual basekit for all killers? I've got nothing that wouldn't break more than it fixed.
Also, nice job claiming you have to be an immature manbaby or actual child who should get off DBD if god forbid you ever feel like online gamers are being dicks on purpose. The other day I ran into a Knockout Doctor who spent the whole time slugging and shocking until T3 made it impossible to pick people up, then bled everyone out, then took the last survivor and ran around carrying them to hold them hostage until they finally gave up trying to get a reaction out of them. What would you call that if not bullying? And if you agree that that killer was intentionally playing a bad game meant to make the other players miserable, what do you think about a 4-stack of BMing survivors sending the killer to RPD with 3 oak, quad sabo boxes, and Exponential/Boil Over? What is actually the difference here, when you get a survivor team that is more interested in crapping on the killer than doing the gens and getting out?
If you've never run into a coordinated SWF that did their damnedest to make sure you couldn't hook any of them, you don't play much killer, and you really don't have the grounds to speak on how a killer's a whiny baby for getting upset about it. At the very least, you don't have the right to declare that and then complain about whatever unenjoyable strategy killers use on you, which you seem to be doing.
Hello, my name is Icarus and I play DBD casually for fun. I made a post earlier where I pointed out some massive gapping holes in logic and addressed each point, quoted word for word, to avoid having a discussion with somebody and not actually address what they are saying. I see you responded to me. I understand by your own words you "don't have the patience to sift through this entire mass." So by your own words didn't even read my post and decided you had enough of a problem with it to respond, but I'm sure you acted fairly and unbiased. So I will keep my responses short.
"you can attack instead of actually addressing what was said."
No.. I quote word for word.
You attacked the other person for saying facecamping isn't an issue that can be fixed without damaging killer agency. In your eyes, this is defending and making excuses for it.
Defending... definition. "To maintain or support in the face of argument." Its not an oxymoron to say "I dislike x, but but still support it.
"even in the original post you decided to get mad at @Seraphor for, they talked about several things survivors rightfully hate being subjected to - just as many such things as on the killer side - but all you're getting out of this is KILLER BAD."
Incorrect, I actually said this in response to his original post. "Right... the difference is when survivors say "Slugging, tunelling, camping are ruining the game and there needs to be massive changes to fix it." The response generally goes "Slugging, tunelling, camping are legit strategies and perfectly fine. cause the devs said so. While at the same time saying focusing entirely on generators is unfun for killers and the devs need to fix this. I'm not saying you specifically have said this, but lets be honest that's the usual response." He then responded this. "Complete misrepresentation of the arguments here. Camping and tunnelling can be legit strategies. On their own, Where is the missrepsentation? He just proved my point and I wasn't even referring to him.
"Actually, it's really ironic that your argument is that survivors can do whatever they want and that's strategy and killers just have to suck it up."
Citation needed. I never said that. I did say this. " If you said that there are no rules anyone can play however they want I could kind of get where you are coming from. But you seem to acknowledge that certain things just shouldn't' be done." I also said this "If a survivor come out and said balance wise 5 gens for 80 seconds is a reasonable time to get 12 hooks, I would criticize that." So... yeah... that's survivor bias.
How would you penalize facecamping without damaging the other more fair or necessary situations where the killer is around the hook?
Citation needed: Simple I wouldn't. Never said I wanted it. Punishing camping is a complete waste of time. I understand you didn't read my post, but in summary. What there needs to be is an open honest discussion about issues, like camping. The reason is because DBD refuses to evolve. People remain adamant that certain things "need to exist." But you can't even have a discussion without a bunch of people telling you why it needs exists. Saying camping is bad, but you can't fix it. Is not a conversation. Its actually ending a conversation before one can begin. I don't want to penalise camping. I want to be able openly discuss, why its a problem to motivate change. But you can't because some people are so adamant that needs to exist and therefore it does. Also punishing camping is dumb. Firstly this would not fix killers who camp because they want to ruin a match. Second even if you did fix camping, killers would proxy camp. Fix that and they would tunnel, fix that and they would slug. Penalising would be a complete waste of time. Which is why I don't support it.
Also, nice job claiming you have to be an immature manbaby or actual child who should get off DBD if god forbid you ever feel like online gamers are being dicks on purpose.
Ok this part funny. Your example for bullying.
The other day I ran into a Knockout Doctor who spent the whole time slugging and shocking until T3 made it impossible to pick people up, then bled everyone out, then took the last survivor and ran around carrying them to hold them hostage until they finally gave up trying to get a reaction out of them.
Versus what Seraphor called bullying
We bring Boon: Exponential, Soul Guard, and Power Struggle/Flip Flop and we have a huge amount of fun goofing around and we all die with 3 gens up and everyone has over 25K points and they complain about us being bullies."
That's just funny XD. But seriously. I don't get the point of this. Are you saying you want something done about? Well unfortunately you can't. Because as the wise Seraphor once said "you can't penalise it without also penalising the legit strategies above." Therefore end of discussion. But seriously, DBD is a game. And as long as it exists there will be people who want to annoy you. But you are going to get upset because somebody bleed you out... I don't know what you tell you. Get over it? Do I want it to exist? Sure, ok lets have a discussion as to why slugging is bad for DBD. "Slugging is 100% a legit strategy." Oh... well... conversation over. Maybe you should bring this up with Seraphor and not me. Apparently we have more common, XD.
If you've never run into a coordinated SWF that did their damnedest to make sure you couldn't hook any of them, you don't play much killer, and you really don't have the grounds to speak on how a killer's a whiny baby for getting upset about it.
So now survivors can't even avoid hooking without killers getting upset.. full stop? Then we are talking about a thin wire. Of course this goes the other way. That's why I don't complain about fully tacked Nurses. In video games sometimes you just lose? You don't get to always win. of course its video game so even if you don't want to deal with it you always have the option to just opt out. I don't know what to tell you. I really hope you don't speak for all killers, because that would be pretty sad.
At the very least, you don't have the right to declare that and then complain about whatever unenjoyable strategy killers use on you, which you seem to be doing.
I just don't think standing in front of a hook is how DBD should be played? Maybe I'm in the minority. Oh well. You can do that if you want. There are some really good ports are coming to PC, and I'm looking forward to it. I legitimately hope you enjoy DBD. Standing in front of hooks is not my game TBH. But more importantly
What strategy? What strategy specifically do killers approve of?
Sabo? killers hate that
body blcoking? killers hate that.
boil over flip flop tenacity? killers hate that
Flashlights? killers hate that
tool boxes? Killers hate that
Healing builds/ medkits? Killers hate that
Stealth? Killers use to hate that so much.
Running as a distraction? Killers hate that.
Escape builds? killers hate that.
Rescue builds? Killers hate that
Generator builds? Killers hate that with passion.
Looping builds? killers hate that?
using map offerings to your advantage? Killers despise that
luck builds? Killers hate that
Are there any I'm missing? If you can teach me a killer approved build, please let me know.
In short, by your own words you didn't read my post and it shows. If you wish to continue our discussion, please actually respond
to what I'm saying. I'm happy to discuss most things DBD related but if your not going to even try to engage with what I'm saying and instead have a conversation with yourself then there is no need for you to respond.
Have nice day.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3042426#Comment_3042426
Holy #########, you really doubled down on twisting and misrepresenting huh?
Everything I just just was entirely balanced and reasonable. I play both sides, I know how both sides feel.
But you're so far gone to "killer bad, survivor good" that you can't even perceive your own hypocrisy.
This is unhinged...
How did I misrepresent you? I quoted you word for word. if you don't like me "mispresenting you" maybe you should think about what you're acutely saying?
"Everything I just just was entirely balanced and reasonable." Do you have any idea how effective camping, and tunnelling actually is? Its busted. Its both miserable, and effective. That's not balanced and reasonable. And you defend it.
"All of these things are legit strategies, except when they're used by a killer in an already dominant position, to bully survivors who are clearly already being outplayed, in a way that they can't do anything to retaliate against it."
Like I said what makes you the decider on when a strategy can and cannot be allowed. Oh yeah I get to decide when body blocking the hook is allowed, or when camping is allowed. If you said that there are no rules anyone can play however they want I could kind of get where you are coming from. But you seem to acknowledge that certain things just shouldn't' be done. The problem is you seem to have this idea that you should get to decide when survivors or killers get to gen rush, or camp. That is massive entitlement. That is not even close to misrepresenting.
Likewise, if you have two survivors body blocking the killer, crouching directly in front but out of sight, and combining that with flashlight saves, sabotage, or Boil Over, etc. to the point where you've denied 3-4 hooks in a row and wasted 5 minutes of chases with several downs but no hooks to show for it. At that point you know you're dominating, and despite only have one survivor on gens, you're giving that one survivor all the time they need to repair them all anyway, because the killer can't make any ground. So what is the killer supposed to feel? "fair game guys you win"?
YES, you should say good game. Some times you lose. it happens. Some times people are just better then you. Sabo, flashlights, body blocking. Its hard. It requires coordination. It forces survivors to play as a team instead of being selfish. Why shouldn't that be rewarding? Why is the idea of survivors being good a problem? Do you know what's not hard? Standing in front of a hook for 2 minutes. Focusing the injured player out of a match. These things are easy and boring. If survivors manage to save a teammate and you think that's a problem, that is on you.
"why are killers getting upset when I bully them?"
Bullying??? Playing DBD is bullying? Over my entirety of DBD, I have never, ever, accused anyone of bullying. Not survivors, not killers. Because playing a video game, more importantly, playing a video game, as directed by the developers, is not and will never be bulling. You say I'm so far game, but you can't even play the game without feeling bullied. That is too far gone. That is when you are emotionally invested in a match that you feel personally attacked when somebody plays video game with you and you lose.
I am mispresenting you? Is quoting you word for word a missrepsentation? But wait you then say this.
"But you're so far gone to "killer bad, survivor good" that you can't even perceive your own hypocrisy."
WHEN DID I SAY THAT? At no point did I even imply any side was good. F me talk about mispresenting. You're creating an argument and arguing with yourself. No seriously when did say that?
is this because I focus on killers and not survivors, despite the fact I also say this
I hate to be blunt, but I could not care less about somebody "feeling bullied." Its extremally easy and unproductive to "feel bullied." Body blocking is not bullying, doing your objective is not "bullying." Camping isn't even bullying. DBD is has 18+ ratting. You need to be 18 years or older to play this game. If you are younger then 18 and you feel "bullied." Maybe that has do with the fact you are a kid, who should not even be playing this game. You clearly do not have the emotional maturity to engage in this game and its best for you mental development to put DBD on hold until you mature a little. If you are over 18 and you are being "bullied," in an online game cause they did gens really fast or because they blocked the hook. Or even if they camped. "I have never felt bullied because a killer camped me." Its frustrating, boring, but not bullying. But if you seriously feel this way, you have much bigger issues then the balance of DBD.
Classic " "killer bad, survivor good" mindset, Could not be more neutral. But you want know why I focus on killers, because you defended it. You defended camping, you defended tunnelling, you deafened slugging. If a survivor come out and said balance wise 5 gens for 80 seconds is a reasonable time to get 12 hooks, I would criticize that. YOU PICKED A SIDE, that you wanted to argue from and I responded. if you justified both, then I would have considered you neutral, you didn't. you are so far to the extreme, you think anyone who is even neutral is extreme the other way.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3041380#Comment_3041380
Complete misrepresentation of the arguments here. Camping and tunnelling can be legit strategies. On their own, they're are very broad concepts that cover a range of circumstances.
During the EGC anything goes, because the killer has no other objectives to defend besides the hooked survivor, or the survivor could be hooked right next to a near completed gen, and can see another survivor approaching, so the killer has no incentive to leave the area. Facecamping at 5 gens is most certainly an extreme example and definitely bad sportsmanship, but you can't penalise it without also penalising the legit strategies above.
Meanwhile tunnelling is highly subjective. Maybe the killer is intentionally singling you out to eliminate you as fast as possible, and ignoring all other survivors regardless of how much of a target they're making of themselves. Again, bad sportsmanship, unfun gameplay. But most of the time, a killer "tunnels" because the unhooked survivor misplays and makes themselves a target, while the other survivors are overcautious and keeping out of sight. So how do you 'protect' an 'innocent' survivor from aggressive, malicious targeting, while not also giving poor survivor plays an unwarranted free escape?
Slugging is 100% a legit strategy, survivors even have a whole host of perks to deal with it, and a core mechanic (the ability to recover yourself/others from the dying state) built around this specific circumstance. How are you supposed to get any use out of recovering in the dying state, picking up other survivors in the dying state, Unbreakable, Tenacity, Flip Flop, No Mither, Soul Guard, For the People, We're Gonna Live Forever, etc. if the killer couldn't slug? The times slugging is bad sportsmanship are usually the minority of cases, typically slugging for the 4K when the 4th survivor is nowhere near anyway, but the killer wants the 4K at any cost.
All of these things are legit strategies, except when they're used by a killer in an already dominant position, to bully survivors who are clearly already being outplayed, in a way that they can't do anything to retaliate against it. And exactly the same is true for genrushing, and bodyblocking.
When the killer has been chasing one survivor for 2 minutes but the other three have stacked rare toolboxes and repair perks and have finished 3 gens before the first chase is over. You know you're significantly outplaying that killer. Maybe there's not so much you can do about it at that point, but you know that's an incredibly unfun game for that killer, and you know that you're all going to walk away with terrible scores. So you shouldn't be surprised that the killer feels that was an unfair game.
Likewise, if you have two survivors body blocking the killer, crouching directly in front but out of sight, and combining that with flashlight saves, sabotage, or Boil Over, etc. to the point where you've denied 3-4 hooks in a row and wasted 5 minutes of chases with several downs but no hooks to show for it. At that point you know you're dominating, and despite only have one survivor on gens, you're giving that one survivor all the time they need to repair them all anyway, because the killer can't make any ground. So what is the killer supposed to feel? "fair game guys you win"?
Yet, just because genrushing and bodyblocking can result in incredibly unfair, unfun games for the killer, doesn't mean that there's inherently anything wrong with repairing gens or blocking a hook.
This topic isn't about fixing imbalances in the game, it's about "why are killers getting upset when I bully them?"
Absolutely beautiful, fantastic example of what I am talking about.
You are right, I did mispresent you, I apologise. For some reason I had this insane idea that killers are not inherently entitled and gave you the benefit of the doubt and didn't accuse you of saying ridiculous like anything a survivor does is unfair but killers can do no wrong and everything if fair because the devs said so. My own fault for treating you like a person and not generalising you into a stereotype, that was my fault and you have greatly embarrassed me.
But seriously your entitlement is astounding. Its amazing how people on the forum will rush to the defence of camping/ tunnelling, slugging. There is always an excuse.
I'm not camping I'm patrolling
I'm not tunnelling, their team didn't body block
slugging is fine because I'm just applying pressure cause the gens are going to fast
Its end game
Then you just get the more toxic excuses
Camping at 5 gens is a legitimate strategy cause the devs said it is
There is nothing wrong with infectious fright slugging nurse
Killer is hard which is why I focus one survivor out of the game then I play properly
Its not my job to ensure everybody is having fun
All of it is the same. you're just coming up with excuses to justify your toxic behaviour. I mean look at what you are saying???
"tunnelling is highly subjective. " It really isn't. Some matches people have bad luck and it happens. But we're talking about hard focusing survivors out of the match. Would it have really been to hard to make basekit BT at least 15 seconds? "Oh well survivors will use it to body block." Well I'm going apply the killer logic, used to justify the buffs with new update. "Now that killer is stronger and matches take longer, killers won't abuse this because it just made camping even more viable then it was, because killers have integrity." Well that's my justification for buffing survivors.
Then you defend slugging? Slugging is a legitimate strategy. Dragging a match out, slowing it down to a crawl or not even engaging in the actual objective of killer "getting hooks." but survivors coordinating to save a teammate isn't? What you pick and choose is astonishing. You are just as much a part of the poor sportsmanship you refer to. you are just not as bad as the worse. Its the equivalent of tripping somebody in soccer and then saying "It's fine cause it only kind of bad, I don't elbow people in the face." No, you are a toxic person, where you sit on the toxic, entitled player ladder irrelevant.
But I could forgive all of this, if you didn't say this. " Facecamping at 5 gens is most certainly an extreme example and definitely bad sportsmanship, but you can't penalise it without also penalising the legit strategies above." You can't even call out the worst aspect of the entire game, and say "OK, yes this awful, and massive game changes need to be fix it." Your first response to defend it? The first thing you think when somebody stands in front a hook for 5 minutes is, "This needs to exits, because proxy camping needs to exist." The worst aspect of DBD needs to exist, because otherwise the second worst aspect of DBD would be weaker, amazing logic.
The more I read the more broken you logic is.
"All of these things are legit strategies, except when they're used by a killer in an already dominant position, to bully survivors who are clearly already being outplayed."
Who the F... gets to determine that? I feel like I'm no I'm no longer in the dominant position so I get to use these cheap miserable strategies. Even more astonishing in this post you call tunnelling "Subjective." But now you have ability to determine a match outcome with complete accuracy to justify how toxic you get to be this match. Oh I'm sure you would never abuse that.
Here is the issue, with you and every entitled killer in DBD. This is modern killer logic.
"Killer's want survivors to play in extremely strict ways, and never deviate from this, so they can predict and apply counters. But they don't want it to be effective because otherwise the killer feels bullied."
I hate to be blunt, but I could not care less about somebody "feeling bullied." Its extremally easy and unproductive to "feel bullied." Body blocking is not bullying, doing your objective is not "bullying." Camping isn't even bullying. DBD is has 18+ ratting. You need to be 18 years or older to play this game. If you are younger then 18 and you feel "bullied." Maybe that has do with the fact you are a kid, who should not even be playing this game. You clearly do not have the emotional maturity to engage in this game and its best for you mental development to put DBD on hold until you mature a little. If you are over 18 and you are being "bullied," in an online game cause they did gens really fast or because they blocked the hook. Or even if they camped. "I have never felt bullied because a killer camped me." Its frustrating, boring, but not bullying. But if you seriously feel this way, you have much bigger issues then the balance of DBD.
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@Seraphor said:
Why don't you try playing killer and find out for yourself?
Genrushing isn't fun.
Denying hooks isnt fun.
Being tunneled isn't fun.
Being camped isn't fun.
These are all extremes, there's a lot of middle ground if you just play the game normally.
Imagine if the killer downed you all and slugged for a 4K within the first 2 minutes, before any gens were repaired. That's how genrushing feels.
Imagine the killer facecamping, instantly grabbing everone who attempted a hook rescue, denying you any chance of making the save. That's what the hook-denying build feels like.
Right... the difference is when survivors say "Slugging, tunelling, camping are ruining the game and there needs to be massive changes to fix it." The response generally goes "Slugging, tunelling, camping are legit strategies and perfectly fine. cause the devs said so"
While at the same time saying focusing entirely on generators is unfun for killers and the devs need to fix this. I'm not saying you specifically have said this, but lets be honest that's the usual response.
Also body blocking is hard, and requires teamwork. Shouldn't something that requires coordination form all players be extremely rewarding? You would think in a game, things that are harder would yield greater results. Also let's say they "fixed body blocking." So now survivors have even less strategies to attempt. Its this mindset that has resulted in gen speeds becoming so fast. Nothing is really worth bothering with, and the few things that are, not only are hard, but killers take issue with.
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Completely agree.
They need to hurry up and nerf her so people will stop bringing it up.
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@kaskader said:
First: I never said ''I want killers to get more buffs'' Im just pointing the FACT that these changes are very small, If those changes are enough or not its a topic for separate discussion.
Second: Don't underestimate the base kit BT and haste, i know survivors like to cry about tunneling and camping but they NEVER wanna take an afford to think on WHY do killers tunnel WHY do they camp, its absolutely funny you just gave me a lecture on why you think dbd shouldn't be competitive while its not even a topic of our discussion or even close to it.
Off the record: This perk is supposed to be anti tunnel DEFENCE perk, but in the current state its gonna be use to OFFENSIVELY to body block and tank the hits for FREE.
And lastly YES i want more killer to be able to compete i don't wanna see nurses and blights all the time, i wanna see more killers at top levels.
ok
First: These changes are not small.. they are massive. Game altering. We're talking about the difference between getting a hit and not getting one and if you don't think a decreased wipe animation, with decreased movement speed from said hit is big. then quite literally you are waiting for a patch that will never come. If you don't get why this makes a massive difference, then WHAT CHANGES DID YOU WANT? These cannot get much bigger. Ok. Majority of killers in DBD are already viable, and the few that aren't can become viable through the use of perks and addons. Over the majority of ranks killers were fine. In fact killers wee overperforming up until the high ranks. Where survivors realise that nothing for survivors matter except for generators. They start slamming gens in 5 minutes and suddenly the kill rates swap massively. The problem is, people don't remain bad at the game. They improve, and they eventually reach that high skilled threshold. "so fix the high ranks." I hear you say. The problem is every single high end killer picks Blight, or Nurse or if they pick a casual killer, they stack themselves with perks and addons. So now killers at the high end still stack themselves, they are just stronger for no reason. Its insane, and of course people say "This won't do anything to fix wraith, or trapper or clown." Imagine getting universal buffs, and still complaining. Survivors get one small buff every like 3 years and killers go mental, but killers get constant buffs, almost one a year and are never happy. What's the point? Why even buff killers, if they get yet another buff to all killers, then complain that its not enough.
Second : camping. 5 seconds of BT? That's the game changing solution to camping. Its such a joke, the fact people are even pretending that this will have an impact are insane. 5 seconds. To get to a pallet or window. That's of course assuming you can even get them off the hook. This won't even address killers like leatherface of Oni, or Hillbily. Not even addressed. But ok lets say the killer is camping, and you its not leatherface or a strong camping killer, and the killer doesn't force a hook trade thanks to the decreased hit time. The pallet will need to be a safe pallet, because if its a standard wall with a pallet in the middle, that survivor is going down without teammates. 5 seconds will do nothing. Even worse, camping has been buffed because passive slow down perks like deadlock were not addressed, and the decreased wipe animation, and the extra 50 seconds a match. That is pretty massive when we are talking about 120 seconds to finish all gens. Oh survivors have off the record great we just swapped BT with off the record, way to not address the problem at all.
Lastly: the reason why I brought up competitive games is this insane idea that some killers have that all killers should be viable. No competitive game is like that. Every single competitive game uses a meta. Certain things that are not meta are just not going to be used. What is the baseline power you want? Nurse? Blight? Huntress? Because if you want Nurse to be baseline, then you are insane. But maybe you don't, maybe you want Huntress to be baseline, I would be ok with that. Well majority of the stronger killer addons will need to be nerfed, and all the top killers will need to be nerfed. Killers are already way more powerful the they need to be. Of course this will result in mass quitting from killers because it has noting to do with balance. They want to win, but they don't want to sweat. But will say at the same time "Standing in front of a hook with deadlock is a legit strategy and does not need to be addressed." But doing all the gens in 5 minutes is awful and the devs need to fix this.
legitimately something is fundamentally broken players will get a patch that so wildly one sided and yet complain that they want more.
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@kaskader said:
I agree that demo/slinger and some other killers will be able to benefit with those changes. But on any other killer the changes are more like ''Feel good'' or like i said placebo changes. You might feel a very small difference but gameplay wise it won't change nothing.
So yea in paper these buffs sounds good in game its hard to spot the difference. Also in this demo example Claudette could easily use deadhard there (which of course will happen in the real game).
The base M1 hit time was decreased by I believe 10%. Sure on base M1 killers its not much. I mean I don't know what you want. I really don't. What did you expect anything more? Well tough luck. I mean this is what the 3rd or 4th patch that is just a straight buff to all killers and nerfs to survivors. "oh 5 seconds of BT." Yeah that will fix Nurse or blight. Or Wind up Huntress. Or really any stacked killer. It doesn't even fix the one thing its suppose to "camping." Everything just got easier for every single killer in the game, even those who objectively did not need it.
Yet your response to all of this is to pick a video from of a youtuber. Where is playing one of the weakest killers in the game. Yet can get a down in 10 seconds, and its only by luck that there is a pallet. (yes, I know he had 8 stacks). Then make some post on the forum about how this changes nothing. What did you want every single killer to be viable?
Well that's not happening. How many competitive games exist where every single character is viable? Every single comp game has a meta. Now I don't want DBD to be competitive. I liked that survivors and killers had wacky massively imbalanced items, because I didn't take the game seriously. But the community pushed for this. Well in a comp games some characters are just not viable. This has been fine for every single comp game ever and I don't know where this idea came form that DBD should be different.
This patch is one of the most one sided patches for DBD and killers are still not happy because survivors got one thing "off the record." Which may or may remain after the PTB, but even if it does, endurance stacking is not suppose to be a thing, the devs confirmed this, so that's fixed. I mean look at this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v50MggXgOks&ab_channel=notOtzdarvaThis is what killers got, yet your response is killers didn't get enough.
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@fulltonon said:
But DS didn't really worked against blight/nurse anyway, I doubt it will actually change statistics.
I mean the post was more then just about D strike but...
As it stands the patch cannot go to live, it can't. You're right I don't think 5 econds would fix everything but it would be an improvement. This is just awful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v50MggXgOks&ab_channel=notOtzdarva -
Umm... You do realise she barely made it and we're talking about a base M1 killer and she had to drop the pallet to survive. I mean if you could just throw on save the best for last and down every survivor in a matter of seconds with it do you now see why that might be just a little bit busted. If any thing in this video it shows the strength of Save the best for last.
All he had was Save the best for last and she had to make it it too a pallet in 10 seconds. In early game sure, but in the early game you would be building your stacks anyway, but generally in late game, expecting to make it to a pallet in 10 seconds consistently.. I mean come have some honesty that's not happening.
Also.. Trutalent is a really bad example. He has a very hostile personality and quite an ego. As a result, he goes up against regular SWF who stream snipe and taunt him for entertainment. His matches are far removed from the norm of DBD and in all honestly nobody has anywhere near as many problems as he does.
Here is a better example of what 8 stacks of looks like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Na7Ve40XpI&t=56s&ab_channel=ScottJundWatch at 1:28. That is what 8 stacks looks like. And as many people like to point out, He is only a mid tier killer, which only highlights how strong this is on the stronger killers. This patch is a massive killer buff and anyone who plays this game knows even small number changes have massive impacts.
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@jeremycarinio said:
nurse wil definitely be an SSS tier killer with the base kits being buffed. these developers just didnt think this through. HAHAHAHHA
I'm not opposed to buffing killers and I think its very obvious that certain killers were underperfoming. But this general buff to all killers just made the top killers or killers with their strong addons go form kinda over powered to straight up broken. All to justify buffing the weaker killers who will still say they are struggling and will need more buffs in the future. They needed to seriously consider why certain killers were underpowered and how much addons affected this. Instead they did a very lazy "General killer buff" and in quite honestly, broken DBD with this patch.
As it stands I am not playing DBD with this patch. killers were not buffed in the right way at all and addons will be essentially mandatory and the meta has not shifted at all as killers best perks have just swapped undying ruin with call of brine overcharge (yes I know this is subject to change but as it stands). Survivor is just boring. They keep losing things and its gotten to stale. Off the record is ok but people will soon realise its just BT fun if you want to taunt but not really practical in a match. In all honestly that's even if it goes live, which I doubt.
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How does this prevent leatherface from standing in front of of a hook and using deadlock to ensure 2 easy kills?
The only way to fix camping is to introduce massive game penalties to properly discourage the playstyle. All this solution would do is give killers the option to apply additional pressure by forcing hook trading with now effort, while sitll have no reason not to camp/tunell.
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Balance wise its bad design for an offering to just exist to give one side a massive advantage.
Imagine if survivors could run an offering to get a 4th hook state? Regardless so many things for survivors were absolutely destroyed for the sake of balance, keys, toolboxes, flashlights.
"The whole point was that it was a fun offering and punished something that was completely avoidable: getting hooked at all and getting downed."
What? Are you serious? That's your counter to ebony Mori, don't get hook? Well then killers better not complain if survivors completely destroy without that offering. That entitlement is insane. Survivors aren't bots for your entertainment.
"You need to be quite a bad player at this point to get to third hook and get yourself involved in a chase to begin with."
Man so many amazing survivors. Simply incredible how many forum posts are from the absolute peak of the player base. Seriously though killers are managing just fine. Even if you disagree, your solution is to throw on an offering to lower the hooks form 12 too 4? Fantastic balance, throw on this offering to auto win, cause that's fun.
Ebony Mori is fine the way it is. It removes the need to do the pick up, carry and hook animations for the 3rd hook, completely negates DS on all survivors and even if you think that balance it gives the killers no actual game advantage, you still get to nifty animation for your kills.
I don't see the issue unless you just want to able able throw on an auto win offering.
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But they buffed it... They didn't even try to fix it, they buffed camping. Camping was already extremely viable and now it is by far the most effective way to play killer. Assuming you can get a down before 2 gens (which let's be honest is not too hard and if you are struggling Corupt still work exactly the same) throw on dead lock, and if you are really want to be certain (no way out). Assuming you have the basic competence to camp. Either grab the unhooker, down the unhooker and just follow behind the unhooked waiting for... 5 seconds. There actually isn't enough time to do the gens. Now its even harder with the extra 50 seconds.
These changes wee made on he assumption that killers will have integrity ad not abuse this. That is not good design.
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@Dsnooz said:
Knowing that BT is basekit means that if you have two health states, you should be able to outplay the killer. (When dealing with face-camping)
It's only an issue if you go for the hook save while injured.
How does this fix oni? or hillbilly? or myers? or leatherface? or Trapper? Or doctor? or Huntress? Or Hag? How does this fix basement? Or more importantly, There not a tile every 5 seconds? Let's say there is, let's say there is pallet within 5 meters. The pallet will need to be a strong enough loop to counter most killers. Of course any anti loop killer (artist, freddy, clown) will be able to easily work around that. Of course this doesn't even address the fact that t now that killers have faster pallet breaking speeds, and faster hit animations, not only are unsafe pallets even more unsafe, but now even by developers own admission this makes hook trading essentially required. Even with the 5 second BT even if you do get away the killer will just down the unhooker and hook them, fixing nothing.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3026576#Comment_3026576
The issue with things being based around SoloQ for a basis of judgement is DbD's game design is based around SWFs, a majority of perks as survivor enforce teamwork and cooperation, both of which dont really exist in SoloQ. I mean, why else do you think most meta perks have just been second chance perks? Because it ensures your survival alone, not the teams survival, and for a good reason, you cant be a team player if there is literally no way to communicate with teams. Now look at SWFs themselves, higher survival rates, they get a lot more variety in perks they can utilize to it's fullest, the game is literally built around.
Dont get me wrong, I wish this would change, I would be fine with a voice chat system, or something to display information to teammates to help them make plays. Something to give them a hand since Ive played SoloQ, I play both sides pretty evenly in fact, and it can be painful to deal with teammates that dont know what to do.
I also have literally no issue with Nurse, Blight (mainly his addons, basekit is fine imo), and Spirit (mainly her addons, basekit is fine imo) getting changes.
The issue with the new maps is that they arent designed at all with any killers in mind, they are designed to look nice and nothing else. Their map layouts and designs in of themselves is horrible for killers because of this. Let's just take a few looks at some maps to give you a better idea.
Garden of Joy is the most recent example. Main Building has an infinite loop in which you gain enough distance from each window to break chase for another window vault, the doorway around far away from the window to mindgame and get a hit, and the fall from the window is low enough to not stagger the survivor's fall... why is this in the game? Because it looks nice, that's it. What about the bushes on the outside? Hillbilly cannot physically chainsaw survivors sitting still on certain parts of the bushes because of their awful collision, why is this in the game? Because it also looks nice. See where Im going? No...
Or how about this, Eyrie of Crows. Eyrie of Crows has a bunch of pallet loops in the graveyard area, which would be fine but every single pallet is wide enough to be extremely safe to loop around, and around each loop are vines sticking out. Those vines make the area look really nice, it really fits into the map's appearance, but there is one issue, the map actively interferes with Hillbilly's power. With their collision being so bad that you can hit them without visually being near them. It makes curving physically impossible in those loops, and they are super common to come across.
Again, Im stating that the maps arent horrible designs because they are bad for M1 killers or good for survivors specifically, the maps are horrible designs because they arent designed with ANYONE in mind. BHVR focuses on the appearances of maps, that they complete undermine any form of balance. Their design focus isnt on survivors. Their design focus isnt on killer powers either. They are just checking off a list of cool visuals to add to make stuff more appealing as advertising material.
Also to "killers need to stop picking and choosing a baseline and commit instead of picking and choosing, it is entitlement" in response to what I said, my focus was just on how they dont design maps around anything, so I was just saying how the map is horrible for Billy because of it, I think you are definitely stretching with that...
But then again, I guess Im an "entitled killer main" despite me not really maining either side, but any criticism towards the game while keeping the entire game's balance in mind makes me a "main" of a certain side because people cant complain without starting a "us VS them" scenario automatically. Bring up an issue survivor related, "survivor main trash, just go back to relying on your easy game to hold your hand". Bring up valid criticism over the state of killer, "entitled killer main garbage, you just want to make the game easier for yourself and no one else". IM JUST TIRED OF THIS. WHY TO PEOPLE CONTINUE TO DO THIS STUFF IN 2022?
If you are stating that that even the most killer sided maps are based off of appearance, rather the strength of survivor or killer then this overall change to the game which is based entirely off of killer win rates is completely unjustified. All they have done is widened the gap between killers at the top, killers at the bottom and solo Q while at the same making sure camping is the most viable strategy for killers.
As I have stated this many times, a baseline killer power would fix so much of DBD. Because power disparity of killers is what has ruined DBD. The killers at the top, and the killers with certain addons are so much stronger then majority of base killers with no addons that the game needs to balanced off their level to give survivors a chance. Unfortunately this won't happen, because they would need to bring down the strength of so many killer addons and this massive nerf that killer 100% needs would result in massive quitting. So instead they rely on perks and addons to fill the power gap. So instead of trying to do something drastic to prevent this they have just buffed all the killers in the game, which is especially true for killers at the top.
WHAT COMPALINTS? What more does killers need?
The game is already so on the side of the killer that there is nothing left to take. Its gone. All of it. "Gen speeds" Yes. Survivors have gen speeds. The only reason why gen speeds have remained at 80 seconds for long is because killers said that there is nothing wrong with camping tunnelling . Thus gen speeds have to be at 80 seconds, to give survivors a chance to escape. Now they made that harder. There is quite literally nothing left for you to take from survivors. It's all gone. So what do survivors do? They sit on gens because that's all they have. They had boons... for like 4 months. Before killers said that was unfair, now killers just need to run a perk and can counter all boons. But hey it was a neat 4 moths. The survivor experience is bad.. and this patch made it worse. Maybe you're right, and survivor win rates will not change. But honestly I care more about how a match goes, then the end result. Eventualy this game will be nothing but sweaty SWF.. and nothing else.
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@pizzaduffyhp90 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3026576#Comment_3026576
The only thing though is that some addons don't push a killer past it's strength like Demogorgan for example his addons are good but, he still doesn't feel like he's got more strength with them even with his Black Heart addon while it helps with the recovery speed depending on the map doesn't help much as in most cases there's another loop in range for them to make.
Survivors do have many ways to win without relying on sweaty teammates I play solo all the time as Survivor and I get a fair share of good Survivors and bad ones and even with some bad ones I can still win in most cases and not because the killer player did badly they were just good at doing gens.
I'm not talking like a game dev because I'm not developing this game I still stand on the camping thing you can never truly get rid of camping in multiplayer games don't matter what penalty you put in they'll still do. Do you know any multiplayer game that has 100% removed camping? Fps games still have it, Fighting games have it, even other horror games have it F13 as an example Counselors just hiding and camping in lockers, tents, the exit for cops or under beds after awhile Jason can sense where you're hiding if you're under something or the range of the sense will be increased if you're just hiding in a corner or exit and players still do it.
So you'd rather finish the game in 3 to 4 mins or maybe bleed to death in a corner for 4 mins so the killer can't hook you and they just leave you there? That doesn't really sound like a more fun thing to do than what's being changed.
The fact you can't play a killer and notice the power difference between adorns and no adorns, objectively proves you are bad at the game. Or alternatively you do understand that even minor addons massively effect killer powers and are deliberately pretending that it doesn't for your point.
"Survivors have many ways to win without relying on sweaty teammates." WHAT GAME OF DBD ARE YOU PLAYING AND HOW DO I GET IT? You need to post the file you're using because you would make millions with this imaginary version of dbd you have created. Constant survivors and killers with top addons and perks all the time and if you say you aren't encountering it. Then either you MMR is so low that you are legitimately playing a different game. Or you are saying that you are encountering it but it dons' affect you.. guess you too good. If so you and every other imaginary DBD player who is just so good that they constant win their solo Q team matches with little too no effort need to start you twitch streams. Because you will put, the best of the best too shame.
Here is the biggest issue
- yes you can fix camping. By making massive game altering changes. But they don't want to risk anything that might actually change it it up, became that may upset the killer community... for some reason??? So instead they do these completely minor changes that fix nothing and has been a problem since 2016 and has not been addressed in 6 years. And the big change they add for survivors, the thing to get you excited for survivor is... 5 seconds of BT... Not even enough time to get you to a pallet on most maps (not even acknowledging basement). This will not change camping at all as half the killers that removing from the hook (You know any killer who can insta down) or fix the real issue, that we could already get them off without BT, the problem is you are just hooked in their place.
- THEY BUFFED IT. They buffed camping, and I have no words that can explain the legitimate brain power it must have taken for the devs to think it was a good idea to do this. They gave killers 10 seconds per generator. Not much if you are playing the game properly. But when camping, with 120 seconds... yeah.. that's massive. Then, throw on 2 stacks of STBS basekit. I guess there were a couple of times where survivors were able to unhook their teammate and use the BT teammate to take the it so they can both escape... had to stop that... reasons. Then they nerfed D strike. 3 seconds won't get you out of range of certain killers. Killers who choose to just eat the d strike because they plan on camping form the start just got buffed. Camping with deadlock/ corupt are barely affected. This isn't even an attempt to fix camping. If you think otherwise then you have to be crazy. Its such a clear afterthought that like they went "Ok so we just buffed every single killer in the game... and nerfed some of the strongest survivor perks in the game. That should stop the killers leaving... oh right half our player base is survivors. Throw on 5 seconds of BT and tell them to shut up." Its not even an attempt.
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@pizzaduffyhp90 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3026576#Comment_3026576
The only thing though is that some addons don't push a killer past it's strength like Demogorgan for example his addons are good but, he still doesn't feel like he's got more strength with them even with his Black Heart addon while it helps with the recovery speed depending on the map doesn't help much as in most cases there's another loop in range for them to make.
Survivors do have many ways to win without relying on sweaty teammates I play solo all the time as Survivor and I get a fair share of good Survivors and bad ones and even with some bad ones I can still win in most cases and not because the killer player did badly they were just good at doing gens.
I'm not talking like a game dev because I'm not developing this game I still stand on the camping thing you can never truly get rid of camping in multiplayer games don't matter what penalty you put in they'll still do. Do you know any multiplayer game that has 100% removed camping? Fps games still have it, Fighting games have it, even other horror games have it F13 as an example Counselors just hiding and camping in lockers, tents, the exit for cops or under beds after awhile Jason can sense where you're hiding if you're under something or the range of the sense will be increased if you're just hiding in a corner or exit and players still do it.
So you'd rather finish the game in 3 to 4 mins or maybe bleed to death in a corner for 4 mins so the killer can't hook you and they just leave you there? That doesn't really sound like a more fun thing to do than what's being changed.
The fact you can't play a killer and notice the power difference between adorns and no adorns, objectively proves you are bad at the game. Or alternatively you do understand that even minor addons massively effect killer powers and are deliberately pretending that it doesn't for your point.
"Survivors have many ways to win without relying on sweaty teammates." WHAT GAME OF DBD ARE YOU PLAYING AND HOW DO I GET IT? You need to post the file you're using because you would make millions with this imaginary version of dbd you have created. Constant survivors and killers with top addons and perks all the time and if you say you aren't encountering it. Then either you MMR is so low that you are legitimately playing a different game. Or you are saying that you are encountering it but it dons' affect you.. guess you too good. If so you and every other imaginary DBD player who is just so good that they constant win their solo Q team matches with little too no effort need to start you twitch streams. Because you will put, the best of the best too shame.
Here is the biggest issue
- yes you can fix camping. By making massive game altering changes. But they don't want to risk anything that might actually change it it up, became that may upset the killer community... for some reason??? So instead they do these completely minor changes that fix nothing and has been a problem since 2016 and has not been addressed in 6 years. And the big change they add for survivors, the thing to get you excited for survivor is... 5 seconds of BT... Not even enough time to get you to a pallet on most maps (not even acknowledging basement). This will not change camping at all as half the killers that removing from the hook (You know any killer who can insta down) or fix the real issue, that we could already get them off without BT, the problem is you are just hooked in their place.
- THEY BUFFED IT. They buffed camping, and I have no words that can explain the legitimate brain power it must have taken for the devs to think it was a good idea to do this. They gave killers 10 seconds per generator. Not much if you are playing the game properly. But when camping, with 120 seconds... yeah.. that's massive. Then, throw on 2 stacks of STBS basekit. I guess there were a couple of times where survivors were able to unhook their teammate and use the BT teammate to take the it so they can both escape... had to stop that... reasons. Then they nerfed D strike. 3 seconds won't get you out of range of certain killers. Killers who choose to just eat the d strike because they plan on camping form the start just got buffed. Camping with deadlock/ corupt are barely affected. This isn't even an attempt to fix camping. If you think otherwise then you have to be crazy. Its such a clear afterthought that like they went "Ok so we just buffed every single killer in the game... and nerfed some of the strongest survivor perks in the game. That should stop the killers leaving... oh right half our player base is survivors. Throw on 5 seconds of BT and tell them to shut up." Its not even an attempt.
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@tendyhands said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025567#Comment_3025567
Literally exactly said in my first paragraph. How is the game worse? You are saying giving the killer less kills for camping doesn't help the issue?
You're not wrong.. but it doesn't change anything. I understand where you're coming from "Anything is better then doing nothing." Yes you are correct. But at the end of the day if I am being camped enough games, I will be done with DBD and most people feel the same.. If this is not addressed properly, I and many players will quit indefinitely, that is the issue.
Please understand that everything you said is correct and I am not disagreeing with you, but you and anyone else who does not see the massive issue with camping and why "A minor buff/ acknowledgment) is not actually good enough.
Unfortunately it has reached point that unless a drastic change is made by them, players will end up leaving. Not all, but some, and in all honestly, DBD needs every player they can keep, because the ones that are remaining are quite honestly just the toxic ones.
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@FrostyEyesSusie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025643#Comment_3025643
How about BBQ, Pop, and NOED? Meanwhile we survivors got basekit BT and Off The h*cking Records. Nuff said isn't it?
BBQ How is removing blood points bonus from a perk a nerf... that has no effect on gameplay... I don't think you understand what the word Nerf means.
POP is about the same TBH. Maybe a little weaker as it gets it most value with gens at least over 25% but if you using pop before 25% then you weren't getting that much value form it.
As for NOED... 95% of matches it is used to secure one kill. This will change very little.
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@Shaped said:
Not me. I got used to it.
Sounds like an abusive relationship TBH
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Exactly, any killer whose counterplay is an item is poorly made and neds to be kill switched until their power is reworked.
Looks at Artist
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@pizzaduffyhp90 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024555#Comment_3024555
So what would you want for those killers even with the mobility on the big maps they can still have problems except for nurse cause it's nurse. Blight still slides on like 75% of walls, Oni needs to build his power up and if a survivor is hugging around a loop or a rock you'll have a harder time to hit them with his power, and same with Billy you need to curve around loops to catch them.
When you say pause the timer for camping sure you can finish the gens and leave them but, you know those altruistic survivors will want to save them but, let's say you have Myers, Trapper, Trickster, Bubba, HillBilly, Doctor, or Oni they can abuse that easily with there power so in fairness you pause the timer yes but, any killer that can trap the hook or get an insta down there good luck trying to get that.
Yes gens aren't fun to stay on I get that but, a change is better than no change.
Because its Nurse is not an answer. The existence of killer power, addons ect that push the killers far beyond their proper strength is the reason this game is so massively unbalanced. Survivors need a way to win without relying on 4 sweat teammates because its just not realistic without constant SWF. If the killer addons were overall nerfed then I would be more willing to agree that killers needed a massive quality of life improvement such as the one that is coming with this patch.
As your point about camping. So if we cannot fix 100% of camping its not worth trying. I really hope you never work on any video game ever.
As for gens... change for the sake of change is good? You do understand there are legitimate reasons why the game was made the way it was. You don't just change something and say "See we tired." And when people say you just made it worse, then go "well change is good." They are literally making DBD more boring for survivors. Not even harder. MORE BORRING. What happens when killers complain that 90 seconds is too short. So they up it to 100. Or 110 or 120. Even if balance wise let's 110 was perfect balance for both sides. As a survivor I will not sit on a gen 110 seconds 5 times a match, not because I might lose but because that sounds like a bad game.
@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024555#Comment_3024555
So you base map sizes off of high mobility killers? So only 4 killers out of the entire killer roster. The issue is map design though. Billy is horrible on the new maps since they aren't designed for him, curving is damn-near impossible in most tilesets, awful collision and pointless vanity objects added that actively hinder their ability. Something that Blight might not have an issue with, but Billy has an issue with. So basically only applicable for 3 killers, not 4, in that regard.
Yes. If we are going to base DBD killers off of SWF and not solo Q then we need to base maps off of Nurse, not clown. Alternatively I am more then happy to base the game off of clown if it meant that killers were based off of 4 solo survivors with massively varying skill levels as this would be fair way to balance the game for both sides, but I imagine killers would struggle at the high end because most killers would need to be massively nerfed, majority of addons either completely reworked or just removed. I imagine a large portion of killers due to their reliance on the game being based off them being way more powerful then the need to be would continue to complain despite this being objectively the best way to balance the game. Killers need to pick a baseline and commit, instead of picking and choosing. It is the peak of entitlement.
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Being outside the terror radius Appling a slow down could be interesting. It would reward survivors for playing riskier which is why I don't like the new change to gens. DBD is no longer heading. I has reached a point of high predictability and boring matches. Although I still like increasing gen speeds without addressing camping first. Those camping is legitimately the reason why gen speeds cannot be increased and they are focusing on gens far ore then camping and that's causing a massive imbalance.
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The only reason survivors win is because of how short their objective is. Which needs to be that short to deal with camping. Killer's have the tools to deal with everything and the actual core of what draws people into DBD in the first place "the case" is heavily on the side of killer.
Killers simply have too many perks, powers and addons to completely break the fundamentals of the chase. Looking at it from that then the game is heavily killer sided. However can survivors hold M1 faster then the killer can down 12 survivors, yes. The game is survivor sided.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
If you're doing chests and totems far from the killer, you're just slowing yourself down for free.
If you're doing chests and totems close to the killer, why are you doing chests and totems close to the killer.
LMAO that's a good question, I have no answer.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024026#Comment_3024026
And you seriously saying maps are killer favoured when the last 2 have been garden of joy and eyrie of crows?
@pizzaduffyhp90 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024026#Comment_3024026
Maps are to small you say so what are the sizes of Mother's Dwelling, Eyrie of Crows, Ormond, Springwood, and Family Residence than? Might wanna look at Coal Tower or Midwich with the size differences to those big maps.
Gen Speed being nerfed so as they are now before the ptb the gens finishing in 3 to 4 mins isn't fast?
You can't permanently get rid of camping or tunneling no matter what you change it'll be there but, having a 5 second bt is gonna be nice with it's combination of a 7% haste movement speed as well.
Also when you say DS got nerfed because of killers crying than the same could be said survivors crying about Spirit to get nerfed.
Yes maps are too small. Based off of Nurse, spirit, blight and hillbily, maps are way too small. The problem isn't map size its killer power disparity. The weaker killers struggle because game needs to be balanced around nurse blight and spirit because survivors need to rely on teammates while the killer only has to rely on themselves. No killer should have the ability to move faster t hen 115, because basing maps off the assumption that all killers are either 110 or 115 is the only way to make proper balancing. You mention garden of joy and Eyrie of crows, but against oni, hillbily, blight, nurse, its a perfectly balanced map, but against deathslinger its not. They need to massively nerf most killer powers and addons to create a rough baseline power and balance off that. On top of this most maps are neither killer sided nor survivor sided its RNG sided. The exact same map came can swing heavily on the side of killer or survivor based on luck and if you don't understand that then please don't just repeat what you see other people say on the forums.
Ok gen speeds. Listen to this very carefully because you are clearly not paying attention.
Doing generators is not FUN. It sucks. The developers did the worst thing possible and made the worst aspect of DBD (gen repair) and made it longer. That is awful and boring. Not to mention extremely lazy. Looping is what made DBD fun, its what made it popular in the first place. Coutnering looping as killer use to be hard and required skill, now its way more on the side of killer the then at any point in DBD, and yet both killers and survivors are enjoying the game less. They killed the actual draw of the game. Its the same thing that happened with stealth.
Lastly camping. Yes there are tones of way to fix camping. One way would be to pause the hook timer if the killer is within 16 metes of the hook. What's that survivors will loop the killer near the hook to pause the timer. Well if camping is a legit camping. Why shouldn't looping the killer near the hook be a legitimate strategy? Bare minimum make it so both the unhooked and the unhooker get basekit get original bt once per match. But I imagine you will say that's unfair, yet say camping it perfectly fine. There are plenty of things that could have been tried, but they didn't want to risk upsetting killers. So instead, they do this fake "massive game change" which was really just as nerf to survivors, a buff to killers, a buff to camping, and the brand new tool for survivors to stop camping is so little that even some well known killers in the community, Otz ect have come out with just... this changes nothing. I mean this doesn't fix leatherface at all and mot basement camping changes nothing. 5 seconds will not get you too a pallet on most maps.
So yes... this change is terrible
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Because the devs have taken away everything skilful for survivors in order to protect killer ego.
Everything left is so hard and so easy to counter its rarely bothered with. Maps are too small, tiles can no longer be chained after the first chase. It's more effective to pick a direction and run. Sabo is too hard as there are too many hooks. Flashlights got nerfed and stealth is still not an option.
The best perk combo for killer are anti gen perks and this patch changes nothing. Yet they took the worst part of dbd (the gens) and made it longer. This patch does not fix camping. 5 second bt is nothing, you will still need bt and ds got nerfed because of killer's crying. Camping got a massive buff and this does not fix bubba at all.
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@feruis said:
Give me an example how to fix it without being exploitable
When a survivor is hit within a set distance of a hook, say 8 meters that survivor gains an extra health state, similar to mettle of man. This means survivors in solo Q won't be forced to trade hooks but can actually get hit, unhook then get hit again and both the survivors get too leave. Combine this with basekit proper BT, 12 seconds and remove killers ability to grab survivors unhooking. Won't fix it, but would be a massive improvement.
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What is the counterplay? The fact it no longer has a use?
The exhaustion would be fine but now killers will still hear?
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@Sheridan_LT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/330252/time-to-quit
Ah I knew it, the "all change is bad" guy. They didn't increase gen speeds. They actually LOWERED them, now gens are 12% slower to repair. Generators are so insanely fast to repair that you basically need to bring slowdown and regression perks to avoid genrushing, and even then you still get genrushed.
"Every survivor meta perk decimated" are you saying that Decisive Strike in its current state is fun? BT as base kit is a nerf?? They actually buffed BT and now made it part of base kit, how is that bad in any way for Survivors? Did you actually even read the developer update patch notes at all, because they literally only somewhat decimated Spine Chill and Iron Will. If you're saying nerfing Self-Care, Spine Chill and Iron Will was this gigantic nerf that will destroy solo queue you're lying.
If you were playing DbD like Sam Fisher and avoiding chases, spamming DS right infront of the exit gates then this game is not for you. I think we're better off with less players who react negatively to a meta being SLIGHTLY, VERY SLIGHTLY nerfed and don't actually read the changelogs.
Thanks for quitting the game.
They took the worst aspect of DBD "the gen repairs" and made it longer and honestly more boring.
They buff monsteorus shrine to make it stronger with camping (24 meter raidus is nothing.")
Basekit Save the best for last for killer which is going to be great for camping
Completely ignore passive slowdown perks like deadlock.
Nerfed DS
And the survivor buff to justify this???
A 5 second endurance with haste. Legit not even enough time to make it out of basement on half the maps.
Oh And I guess off the record and a few extra seconds of BT.
The survivor buffs are so little, this changes nothing. The nerfed perks like DS.... DS WHICH IS MANDATORY HALF THE TIME. I thought they were going to announce Basekit DS with BT, but they nerfed it??????????
For the killers who are still here... good luck. If solo players are smart they will quit now. This game is going become SWF required.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3019579#Comment_3019579
Not really sure why people keep saying solo Q is bad. Sure they are sometimes but ive had such a good time in solo Q and some survivors are really really good. If survivor is good they are good in Solo Q as well. if they are bad they are bad in SWF too.
Some of these buffs to healing and endurance is going to make it impossible for killers to kill anyone at end game and 2 second heals are reality again.
Imagine leatherface camping, in a 4 man swf. The person being camp says "I'm being camped do gens." So you all do gens, and escape before he gets his second down. great, not a fun match but you still beat him. Now imagine if you are 4 solo Q and a survivor is hooked. teammate one goes to the hook, says "oh he's camping" leaves to go on a gen. 20ish seconds wasted. Then teammate 2, does the same thing, then teammate 3. Before you know it 60 seconds out of your 120 timer is is gone.
Its other things as well. Players prioritising themselves, rather then the team, throwing matches to complete challenges.
Or my absolute personal favourite. Standing still for minutes at a time... not afk, they move... slightly. They just don't move from their spot. You seriously wonder if they are bots.
I have seen amazing solo Q players, top players, but overall SOLO Q is just not functional anymore, and this patch just crippled it.
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@Malkhrim said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3018366#Comment_3018366
Wrong, playing "properly" (while camping and tunelling is still as "proper" as any other strategy, I am going to suppose you meant playing without camping) is BETTER now with the buffs for killers in chase AND the increased gen times that allow for some gen regression even without the meta perks. Playing in a more "chill" way is actually getting MORE incentive with this update, as you will be able to end chases faster.
With any of these, including Leatherface, it means that, while he can still down the unhooker, he won't immediatly down the rescued survivor, who will endure the first hit and get a haste effect that stacks with the speedboost from being hit. Nobody said camping will be gone, but it is still an improvement against it, just like gen regression isn't "fixed", but slightly better than before. You're not supposed to get free unhooks like that either: the unhooked person needs protecting from being tunelled out of the game, not the rescuer.
By the way, Doctor isn't that good of a camper and this change is definitevely good against her, as you will be able to get alway from the triggered trap before she gets an instant hit and, even if she gets, you can endure the hit.
Just going to address both responses.
These changes are the worst DBD has ever been, and reading the posts its not surprising why. I just thought they were increasing gen times. But seriously.
Pop, scourge pain resonence, dead man's switch are effectively the same. Way to address that anti gen perk meta. Pain resonence is now works on all basement hooks. So. that's great. Way to make one of the new meta perks even more viable. Oh but survivors don't scream, awesome so less value for killers who want to play the game properly, need information to be incentivised to leave and more value for killers who intent to camp/ defend one hook... great design. Throw on the extra gen times, completing all the gens before that survivor dies is going to be hard. Worse still monsterous shrine now decreases the hook timer to 108 seconds. If you play to win, why would you not camp? Throw on deadlock, that survivor is dying... nothing less then 4 survivors with comms is escaping with more then 2 players. All the strong campers, insta downs, fast downs are now even faster with the decreased time with successful hits. And survivors gain less distance from the hit... just no words. Oh but don't worry survivors now have basekit BT. OF 5 SECONDS?????? But it's fine because they now get haste... also for 5 seconds. So once you get unhooked, better start moving because otherwise you are going down again. But don't worry you have DS to save you...
THEY NERFED DS???
DS... WHICH DESIGNED TO PREVENT CAMPING IS NERFED? To 3 seconds. WHY. HOW CAN YOU IN THE SAME PATCH ACKNOWLWDGE THE MASSIVE CAMPING PROBBLEM AND NERF ONE OF THE FEW LEGITIMATE COUNTERS.
This is what happens when you listen to one side. SOLO survivor has gone form bad to unplayable, and even SWF has taken a hit. Maybe you won't abuse this. Maybe you are Some saint of virtue and will never abuse these changes despite how easy it is. But do you seriously think the majority of the player base will have the integrity not to? History says otherwise. This is the SECOND WORST PATCH IN THE HSOTRY OF DBD. The only time it was worse was when they buffed flashlights. Guess what all the killers quit...
Solo Q is done... good luck with SWF because that is the future of this game.
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@Malkhrim said:
Are all you people complained about camping forgetting about the rest of the update? Did you read it at all? Now, survivors will get a shorter "base-kit BT" AND a haste effect when being unhooked, which helps you to reach pallets before the effect is over. This is the best tool against camping survivor received in YEARS as you won't need to bring BT and can use a perk slot for one of the buffed perks instead.
How does this fix camping with leatherface or doctor or hag or huntress or hillbilly or trickster?
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@FlameGNG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/329793/devs-acknowledging-gen-speed
gen rushing wasnt a thing and gen speeds are buffed not nerfed xd while they sure added 10 sec more they made ruin half as effective and pop much less effective so gen regression will be much slower thus leading to no difference in my opinon, if anything gens speeds are being buffed as a survivor...
Look at it this way.
Gen time is increased. Killers camping more as they have more time as it's more viable.
Anti gen perks are nerfed. Killers who play without the current anti gen perks struggle. Playing properly is far less viable. Thus killers camp more.
Regardless the outcome is more camping.
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@Sludge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016714#Comment_3016714
Yeah it's not gonna do much but as usual survivors are over reacting
Yeah why would survivors be concerned about longer gen times with killers camping all the time and killers like leatherface exist classic overreacting survivors
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@emetSdidnothingwrong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3015379#Comment_3015379
I'm aware this will come as a surprise to you but most killers don't actually enjoy camping, they do it because they feel currently it is required to even have a chance at higher MMR, if they had the option to not do it and still have a chance to win they would. You're problem is you assume the worst about Killer players and that they just want to ruin your experience, in all honesty the killer playerbase is a lot nicer and more wholesome than the vast majority of the survivor playerbase. Either way it doesn't matter because apparently the devs disagree with you.
Wow that is really tribal. Killers aren't the problem survivorrs are. That attitude is everything wrong with this community.
Killers camp all the time. Regardless of gen speeds. It has nothing to do with being forced. They do it
A because it is highly effective.
B it is unfun to go go against and they are toxic players.
This change is a buff for both. Every time the devs listen to the toxic and entitled players, part of the game dies. And they are doing it again.
They killed toolboxes
They killed flashlights
They killed looping
They killed saboing
They killed stealth
All of this came from killers. And you seriously called killers wholesome. They are no different from survivors.
They are both people.
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Why?
*realises you just want to teabag*
No... seriously no need to be toxic.
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@Mandy said:
The skill check is designed to be this size, it's not guaranteed that you will hit it every time (even the best players can occasionally miss a skill check) - with the reward being so big (getting out of the killers grasp), the skill check needs to be a bit smaller than a regular skill check for sure.
There are no plans to adjust the size of this.
If decisive strike is suppose to prevent tunnelling, why is there even a chance of if just not working even if you are tunnelled?
If it is not designed to prevent tunnelling, why did you need to make it disable when touching a generator or healing?
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3006344#Comment_3006344
And if you are within the range of second blink, you are already close enough.
If they are close enough they will be killed, just like every other killers, what's the problem there?
Oh and yes, if survivors NEVER make mistake like knowing whatever killers gonna do, game is literally unbeatable and survivors are literally unkillable, it's just a fact.
And if you are within the range of second blink, you are already close enough.
Two problems with this.
Firstly the distance she covers is quite a bit, and and she can choose exactly how far wants to go within the range.
Secondly most killers have this thing called "WALLS" by using walls, pallets ect survivors are able to put a barrier preventing the killer from being in range to use their swing. Her swing quite literally cannot be countered by walls. That's what separates her from every other killer in the game.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3006288#Comment_3006288
There is nothing to do beside gen rushing, competent killer = hook rushing and competent survivor = gen rushing, really nothing strange in that.
If survivors literally CAN NOT take even thirty seconds or so, then the survivor is doing something wrong, because it's literally not possible to predict every move survivors do.
We're talking about a killer who covers the same distance as the survivor does in their 1st chain blink. Then only a matter of seconds to recover both charges. If you the nurse are failing to hit the survivor within blink range, and then you are doing something wrong. See the problem is the second blink. The first blink, yes you can reasonable dodge it, but the second? If the nurse knows where you are? No.. there is no way to dodge it.
Lets say hypothetically you do make an error and over shoot the teleport, I imagine you are punished heavily for it yes? Well not really. If the blink is obviously too long, she waits out the fatigue which also charges her blink at the same time. If its a fairly close and she tries but fails, she is so close to hit the survivor, she can generally get them without even waiting for the second charge.
So no.. assuming she can land her blinks, no she cannot be dodged. There isn't really many movements for a survivor to make against a nurse, its either keep going forward or double back. If you keep going forward she lands on top of you and hits you, and if you double back she auto corrects and doubles back herself.
You seem to have this idea that nurses will just mess up. But would hold that same attitude for survivors. DBD is balanced because of the assumption that survivors should make an error? Of course not, we know that with enough practice you can reach a point with little to no mistakes, killers are no different.