Icaurs
Icaurs
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Majority of maps have a perfectly fine amount of pallets. I think around 15 give or take 1 or 2 is a good amount of pallets.
The bigger problem is not the quantity of pallets, but rather the map RNG. Sometimes loops are just so heavily on the side of survivor that done correctly they can connect 2-3 loops and be borderline uncatchable for M1 killers. Other times loops can be so spread out that it becomes extremely easy to just brute force pallets.
The vast majority of DBDs problems can be fixed by removing the RNG aspect of DBD. By making things predetermined they can ensure a fair amount of loops, and gaps between them for killers.
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I find it so weird. That the argument for why hook suiciding should be banned is because people are not playing the game as intended. What I find hilarious, is if you hold anything else to that same standard people say "don't tell me how to play." Throwing a match because of a challenge? Perfectly fine. Farming, perfectly fine. Camping, perfectly fine.
My question is this, are there now rules on how people are allowed to play DBD? If so what are the other rules? And I don't want people to say "survivor is different because they're a team." No they are not. Survivor is not a team and I am so tired of seeing that. Survivor is an individual based game. a 1V1V1V1V1 game. If survivors were a team, they would be scored as team. So actually killing yourself on hook is not game throwing, because you are not a team.
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My understanding of survivor is that survivor use to be the power role. It was overwhelmingly more powerful and easier then killer. Now this wasn't exactly good, as this is where the idea of bullying comes from, as it doesn't feel good when a group gangs up on one side even if they are just playing the game. So the devs, started making countless changes to survivors to make it harder, they nerfed the majority of loops, nerfed a bunch of strong perks and refused to introduce more meta changing perks, and nerfed toolboxes and flashlights to the point that they aren't really useful unless you bring them in yourself, looting them from chests is a waste of time. This was all done for the sake of balance, and balance wise I actually supported most of these changes.
However the effect of this is that survivor is no longer causal friendly, its harder and requires far more focus. Survivors who say that the new patch made survivor unwinnable, are quite honestly just not good at the game. Survivor is very winnable, but you have to play way more serious, at least as serious as killers do. The problem with this, is a at its core.. survivor sucks. You know what hardcore survivor is? Gen simulator. Actual gen simulator, just doing a progress bar and leaving. Its not good, and now you need all of your teammates doing this the whole time. It use to be, why bother with half the perks for survivors as most of them are jokes. Now ruining half the perks is almost considered game throwing. The draw for survivor I found was the far more casualness of it compared to killer. Now you need to be focused and serious every match and its resulting in burnout. People are going into matches, getting a quick chase, go down, an then quit and move onto the next one.
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This is so poorly thought out.
So now people can be punished for players on their team. That is actually awful. So not even talking about the fact that people disconnect due to connection problems, or sometimes have legitimate reasons for leaving. So now survivors have no way to escape because somebody else who they may or may not have any relation to decided to call it quits. Imagine if the game punished the killer, for playing properly and not stuffing around because a survivor disconnected 30 seconds into a match. Yes punish the other players for the actions of others.
First of all that's not exploit. Second, this is already punishing because if you do it once, you are banned for 5 minutes and only gets longer with each consecutive use. This could not be less of problem.
What's even funnier, is the reason this even happens is because killers slug people for the 4K. Killers constantly complained that keys and hatch was unfair, so they denied survivors this, and killers took advantage of this and started slugging the last 2 survivors just to get one extra kill. So instead of dealing with the issue that is causing this, killers slugging for the 4K. Which is an actual problem because the killers is holding players hostage by refusing to do their objective, you want to punish something that is already severely punishing, that is only happening because of a much bigger problem that is being ignored.
Here is a great solution. Make it so that if there are only 2 survivors, and the survivor and the killer downs one of them, and that downed survivor is not placed on a hook in 30 seconds. Hatch spawns in cannot be closed by the killer and both survivors are healed to full. This would fix 90% of what you are complaining about and survivors wouldn't have to deal with killers holding the game hostage. A universal win.
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If your running killers for 5 gen loops then that says way more about the killer then you. Its one thing to say that killers cannot keep up with the gen speeds, but you seem to apply that you are looping the killer for minutes at a time. That should not be happening, and certainly not regularly. Its hard to give precise critique without many details of these matches you are talking about, but I have to genuinely wonder, are these killers you versing, do they deserve these downs? Howe effective ae they using their power, and what addons are they using? How are you bullying these killers?
Killer is so much harder back in the early years and yet despite these massive changes killers seem to think the game is still too hard. The truth is most killers who are struggling are struggling due to their own inabilities. With enough practice the majority of killers are viable and this has been demonstrated by most content creators. When you play killer are you regularly getting curb stomped? If the answer is no, then you seem to imply that you are above the average player who just plays for fun, and maybe you should have relax more, and if the answer is yes, then why are you getting beaten so badly frequently when many others who are not?
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What do you mean? The devs made no real attempt to fix tunnelling over the years and openly supported it. They only took an issue now, because its become so bad that its actively ruining the game. And they are dragging their feet as much as possible because they don't want to upset killers. They have made no attempt to seriously fix tunnelling and everyone just goes "it can't be fixed." Maybe you're right, but nobody knows that because it has never been tired.
Literally that Simpsons line
"We've tired nothing and we're all out of ideas."
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3124616#Comment_3124616
What's not a good mindset is "screw everyone else, this game didnt go exactly how I wanted so no one gets fun"
That is just selfishness and entitlement and the worst mindset physically possible to have. You're expecting everything to go your way or you'll happily ruin it for everyone else.
No doubt people with that mindset would complain about others ruining your fun. Camping, tunneling, DCing, sandbagging, certain killers/perks...
This is exactly what I am talking about. The way people try to guilt players into staying in matches with one side overwhelming the other. Infinites was not an exploit. Using boil over on RPD was not an exploit, doing 4 gens in 3 minutes is not an exploit. None of these sorts of things are exploits but undoubtedly ruin a game. Maybe you have the special integrity to sincerely play a match with survivors completely overwhelming the killer, but the fact is the majority of players don't. They just want to try to find a fun match. That is perfectly acceptable. And I love how its now that people say "OH WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE COMUNITY." I was advocating for proper gaming ethical rules since 2017 and you know what people said. Don't tell how to play." Which has remained the mindset for years. Now its reached a point of such extremism that nobody cares about anyone else's enjoyment, and the only reason you and anyone else like you pretends to care is because your matches are personally affected by it. Now you you pretend like there should be rules in place on how to play to ensure fun is maintained.
I have explained , that people not regularly disconnecting every night, they disconnect once and either stop for the night or come back later. But they are not disconnecting any more then 3 times in a few days, the penalty does not allow for this. There is no issue with players giving up, and you only want to make it worse, so you can trap people in matches so you can dominate them.
Just no.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3122494#Comment_3122494
"Fine, but do you know what going down instantly does mean, if that killer chooses too camp you, not only are you almost guaranteed to die, but your teammates are unlikely to finish their generators before that survivor on hook dies. That killer is extremely likely to win, and everybody knows it. Now if a killer chooses to play properly, then yes a 10 second down is not a guaranteed win by any means. But as so many killers say so, they don't have to. They can paly however they want cause its not against the rules."
The hook timer is shorter than the 5 minute penalty you'll get for DCing.
Just wait it out regardless, if the killer camps you, so what, the longer you hang on the more time your team have to do gens or potentially save you.
Ah but you and a lot of people are forgetting one important thing.
PEOPLE ARE NOT BOTS
They are not AI who have to follow the laws of robotics and say "5 is bigger then 2. These are real people outside of a computer screen. We are just talking about straight disconnecting correct, well people will disconnect, and then walk away. Go do something else. Why would they, drag out their loss, in an incredibly frustrating way just so they can get in a match 3 minutes faster, when they can just disconnect and leave. Maybe they come ack in 5 minutes after a break, maybe not, either way its way better for people's mentality to disconnect and then walk away for 5 minutes. Do something else for a bit and choose to come back if they want to. But people are not going to drag out their deaths so their teammates might stand a chance of winning when, A they get nothing from this, and B if people feel the need to disconnect they likely want to take a break anyway. Not many people sit there with their mouse hovering over the start match button waiting for the time to go off. They leave, do things, some times they come back, some times they don't. And people take issue with that? Seriously if you take issue with somebody removing themselves from DBD. That's just.. not a good mindset.
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OK this is such an awful mindset.
Imagine getting into a match, where one side is clearly overpowering the other side and when someone says, I give up I want to move in hopes to find somebody closer to their skill level, you take offence because you want make them upset. That is so toxic. Its amazing, how people go on and on about bully squad this and 4 man SWF that. When a killer says, I'm not enjoying myself, people rush to their defence and tell them how hard it is. But if a survivor who just want play for a bit before they got sleep and encounter a fully stacked killer and they just say "I give" everyone gets so outraged by it.
The fact most of you are just giving killers free wins because you instantly give up at the start is stupid. Just because you went down fast doesn't mean everyone else will nor does it mean we cant still win.
Fine, but do you know what going down instantly does mean, if that killer chooses too camp you, not only are you almost guaranteed to die, but your teammates are unlikely to finish their generators before that survivor on hook dies. That killer is extremely likely to win, and everybody knows it. Now if a killer chooses to play properly, then yes a 10 second down is not a guaranteed win by any means. But as so many killers say so, they don't have to. They can paly however they want cause its not against the rules.
It's a team game,
No it isn't. If DBD was a team game, then survivors would be scored as a team. They are not. They are scored individually. Survivor is an individual based game, where you cooperate with others, until you don't.
stop throwing everyone's game because it didnt go your way. Learn to stick it out and learn from your mistakes.
Imagine saying that to so many things over the years of DBD.
Insta flash lights
Brand new parts
chain loops
infinites
Complete sabo.
Imagine telling a killer to not DC and to just improve, when survivors were using boil over in the RPD library. Because using boil over in the library is not an exploit. That was using the perk as intended, just really well. Seriously, the audacity of some people, to be like just improve, just get better. Oh but here is the list of 500 things I want nerfed, but that's different because I find it hard. There are may problems in DBD. Things that are just miserable for survivors and killers and I don't blame anyone for giving up against it. But its so infuriating, when people try to guilt players into remaining in unwinnable matches just to flex.
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To discourage killers from camping, using one hook constantly throughout a match. It was suppose to be a bandaid fix to camping, which is partially why I think Hangman's trick was reworked. Its sad because survivors can pull off some neat combinations with flip flop but I have to agree that this mechanic is extremely outdated and the hook should respawn after a minute. Unfortunately the devs never thought people would be so toxic to drag out a match for 4 minutes just to get one kill but that's just the DBD way. Everyone is a victim, but ten says they are allowed to play however if they want to because its not against the rules.
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So a couple of things with your post.
Firstly your understanding of the disconnect penalty is wrong. How it works is you get a standard 5 minute DC penalty, that increases when a player disconnects, relatively close to their prior disconnect, so the first disconnect is 5, then I believe its 15, then 30. My time may not be exactly correct. This is standard for any online game for a number of reasons. People crash, people are abused or put in situations where others are trying to deny a proper match. Hilariously, because DBD has the disconnect penalty and how DBD is designed, when a player rage quits, forcing a loss for the survivors, that player can take the DC penalty and move on. Its actually when players such as hackers or stream snipers, are using the threat of the DC penalty to hold streamers or any target hostage, by constantly targeting and repeating this. The DC penalty, actually achieves nothing and causes way more harm.
Anyway, if all these complaints about DC penalties were legitimate, then that would mean people would have to be regularly receiving, 15 minute, 30 minute, Hour+ bans. Unless you are saying that these people are disconnecting once a night, in which case its not really an issue if they are only occasionally disconnecting.
So I actually took a bit of time to double check some things and found this.
DC peanlty startsstarts at a 5 minute ban, then 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 1 hour, 3 hours, 6 hours, 12 hours, 24 hours, 48 hours, and finally a repeating 72 hours.
So apparently these are the times for each DC penalty every 7 days from the last penalty. So if people are disconnecting as much as you and others imply, then surely you have to agree that they can only DC so many times before it simply becomes imposable to play. Its simply unreasonable to say people are regular disconnecting. Most likely, people will play for a bit, DC, and then go play something else. Maybe pick up DBD the next day or something. Disconnecting is not an issue, and it usually done for a reason. Forcing people to participate in a match when they want to accept their loss spreads more toxicity, and holds players hostage in matches. The DC penalty solves nothing, and causes so many issues.
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Toxicity cones from everybody spreading Toxicity.
Let's say hypothetically that survivor came from a match where the killer forced a bleed out. Would they justified with how they acted towards you? of course not, you had nothing to do with that. But if you respond by bleeding another survivor and blame the survivor of last game for this, you are not justified. You are just as toxic.
All you can do is prove you hold yourself to a higher standard then others by not acting toxic because someone else was.
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The reason why DBD has always been "generally balanced" is this.
DBD is half competitive/ half wacky fun and the community is heavily divided between those who play for wacky enjoyment and those who play serious. Unlike other competitive games which have a set of rules on how people are suppose to play the game, DBD has a lot more "play however you want attitude that has not reinforced how DBD should be played. The result is matches swinging heavily from complete jokes to some of the most hyper focused matches and stressful experiences you will have. In addition I have noticed that killers tend to lean more towards a competitive mindset then survivors as majority of killer complaints tend to focus on the balance of matches, while survivors argue from what they consider fun.
To counter balance this, survivors have had a much easier time then killers and have as the solo Q frequently results in getting at least one player not taking the game seriously. Now with the killer buff patch, casual survivors have been told they now have to play serious but don't want to and lot have quit in response which is why you see posts about the longer killer Que times. The result is matches being far more unbalanced then people suspected.
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-Survivors disconnecting / suiciding on hook because they don't want to adapt
Or maybe its because matches are not fun. Here is my counterpoint, if you are a killer and are getting curb stomped by 4 man SWF, is it unreasonable to give up? I mean DBD is one of the few online games to not have a forfeit option. If players are mass disconnecting, maybe its on the devs to address them. Enough people are apparently doing this that its a reoccurring issue. Maybe the patch has massive issues that should have been fixed before it went live. Push it back 3 months? Like any other developer.
Other games have a 30 minute penalty, while DBD only has 5 minutes).
Most online games have a standard short dc penalty that gets longer when done relatively close to the prior one. This is standard for any online game. I don't know what gems you are referring to that have a base 30 minute penalty, but if DBD seriously needs this, then there are bigger issues, the disconnecting is symptom, not a cause.
Camping / Tunelling is a problem, that needs to be adressed
They don't want to because the killer main community is fairly small and relies heavily on this. A lot of killers would quit in response and they didn't want to take that risk. The devs genuinely believed camping was perfectly fine almost too this year, when it has become so bad that the game is largely unplayable for a lot players unless they run a build to deal with it.
Decisive Strike nerf is too harsh. BHVR wanted to shake up the meta
Obviously this patch was about trying to stop the exodus of killers. since SBMM. So they gave killers everything they wanted and threw logic out the window. No.. they didn't want to shake up the meta, they wanted inflate the killer kill rates and motivate more people to play killer. That's why they nerfed some anti gen perks but buffed others.
Most of these problems stem form the devs listening to one side. For people who say the devs are survivor sided, or killer sided they are not. They are on the side that brings in the most players because its the most profitable. To keep killers motivated and buying skins and DLC they buffed the hell out of killer to motivate players to play killer even if it caused problems. People are mass quitting because DBD now requires survivors to play serious if they want to win, and its boring. Survivors want to screw around because its fun. If people have a problem with that, this how DBD has worked for the past 5 years and guess what it worked fine. They have now decided to change this and this is the response. I don't think this patch will kill DBD, but it will likely change the player base, its up to the individual if they want to keep playing.
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The increased difficulty is not nearly as bothersome as the predictability of matches.
When they said they were doing a big meta shake up, you would think that would mean that the optimal strategies pre-patch would no longer apply. Instead all ;they did was nerf some anti-gen perks but compensated by buffing others. While additionally soft buffing every single anti gen perk in the game. It changes very little, and just makes the game harder.
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You mean survivors aren't just bots for killers entertainment and have expectations of a match, and when they are not met they move on. I am shocked. In all seriousness, tis patch was awful for the survivor experience, nerfs are one thing, but to ignore survivors one simple request of a serious attempt to fix camping, and slap on a clearly rushed band aid fix, I don't blame any survivor for feeling exhausted with this game. You make everything harder and can't even take the one thing survivors have needed addressed and fail to address it properly.
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I don't know why people are so surprised. What was it, 2021 or 2020, the devs supported tunnelling/camping. They took no issue with a facecamping bubba and openly stated they had no plans to address this. What changed was with the introduction of SBMM, camping has become the most optimal way to play killer, by far. This more or less forced them and thus made a rush change and put very little thought. I mean if it takes you the best part of the decade to come up with 5 seconds of BT, maybe you are working on the wrong game.
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As somebody who has played DBD since early 2017, I wasn't there at the beginning, but I've played it on and off for a long time. Here is how I feel about DBD.
Killer is always a work in progress. There will never be a point that killer is "fixed" and this is normal for any game. However the devs have made countless attempts to lower the potential of what a survivor can theoretically achieve in a match by a massive amount. This has given far more power to the potential killers then years ago, however you would think that with so many changes, killers would see the constant consideration for them and appreciate how serious the devs are to improving the killers experience, even if it can be slow. But we see this isn't the case. There is this push for killers to hold a negative mindset when playing killer and basic things that any game ever people would say "Don't do that.. you're ruining the enjoyment for others." Yet DBD is one of the few games where people go out of the way to defend people who actively sabotage fun. Killers as a whole I notice tend to feel more isolated, due to their matches consisting of themselves and as a result will feel "bullied." by people simply playing the game. The biggest issue with killer is that massive push (largely by content creators) to treat killer more seriously was mad years ago by many of the dbd streamers and the killer experience has never really reverted. This has made killer feel harder, yet objectively has gotten easier.
Survivors suffer from stagnation. The devs have refused to listen to survivors for a long time. The new patch is extremely divisive, but I think survivors could accept a lot of the changes if the devs at least made a meaningful attempt to address camping. But they don't want to. The devs are reluctant to give survivors anything strong, lest they create something that is the next massive outcry from the smaller killer main community, and are scared to take risks that may make it smaller. I think survivors are tired. They are unmotivated to play and this transfers into the solo Q experience. Players feel unmotivated and will often do a challenge and quit, or have a chase and quit. Its hard to feel excited for survivor, especially those who have played DBD for a long time, when most survivor perks are jokes. The last real meta defining perk was COH and that was nerfed twice. I'm not saying these nerfs were not justified, but if that wasn't enough they then introduced an anti boon perk, which can shut down any boon totem, despite all of the others being jokes. Shadow step is the only really decent boon perk, and that perk now has a massive counter. The biggest issue for survivor can be summarised as "why bother." So much of survivor has been toned down that survivors tend to wonder why they bother, and those that do are treated like they are game throwing.
In summary, most of the issues form DBD have stemmed from one factor, the game philosophy changed from fun, to competitive and this has had a serious negative impact on both sides.
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LMAO BUT BT isn't even basekit. It's the cheap knock off brand.
They didn't even want to risk proper bt less they ran the risk of mass exodus of killers outraged over proper anti tunnelling tools while saying they never do.
And then nerfed ds at the same time XD. How does that even begin to address tunnelling and camping
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What up fellow survivor can I ask you some questions.
1. Outbof those 14 matches how many survivor were alive?
2. How many were running NOED
3. How fast did NOED last?
4. What happened at the hook.
Because with no ds you would have to be pretty bad at the game to be unable to camp.
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Why not. STFBL was pretty strong and used fairly often pre patch and now its been buffed even more. IF the goal is to broaden the use of perks, wouldn't it make sense to nerf it?
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This would place DBD as one of the Harshest DC penalties in online gaming. Not even proper competitive games are that strict.
What could possibly make you feel this is needed?
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@EvilJoshy said:
Maybe a harsher penalty for DCing or suiciding on the first hook?
So your solution to the problem of a large portion of the community refuses to engage with part of the game is to hold a penalty to then to force them to participate.
Ok. Many on the forum want a symbol for swf. If this was implemented but if the killer leaves they receive a temp ban, would you support this?
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@Dead_Harder said:
Yeah i always got confused when people said being tunneled was 'denying to play the game' and then turn around and say the chase was the most fun part of the game and gens were boring.
That's like saying chasing survivors Is the best part of killer but weirdly gets frustrated when 3 loops connect into one another.
Specifics matter.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3086922#Comment_3086922
If you don't think its worth it, then leave. why some people refuse to take the W is beyond me.
Because the optimal way to play DBD is not always the most fun, in fact I would say its usually not.
If people made all their choices based on what gave them the best chance of winning, that result in very stale and predicable boring gameplay. It is the unpredictability based on risk that makes games interesting to begin with. However you cannot expect people to throw matches. If the risk is simply to high they will not bother. I don't know if these changes make the end game too much of a risk, we will just have to wait and see, but if this the trend for DBD, I personally don't think that's good, the same for any game.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083749#Comment_3083749
because the save requires finess now instead of just having everyone congo line swarm the hook. I make saves in egc and sometimes i die trying, its not impossible in either direction.
Yes but the question of "Is it worth it?" Matters. Going for end game saves has always been risky. With NOED, blood warden, and EGG, combined with no longer any gen pressure, snowballing has always been risky. While some killers the risk is really too high, others can generally be done. Now however, knowing that DS does not exist, combined with the shorter M1 attacks, you have to wonder if its worth it. Maybe some players don't care if they escape and are happy to die to save a teammate. But I think most players want to save their teammate without dying in the process. If survivors as a general group decide that the risk is to high, you've just killed a massive part of the end game aspect of DBD matches.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3085450#Comment_3085450
You're not reading arguments. Some people want Nurse to have no addons, some want her to have no M1 perks. Some people want her nerfed into the ground and they all think they're right.
These aren't solutions, just petty fantasies.
Again, there's not a single killer who can't use perks, Nurse is not going to be the first. Its bad design.
No it's actually really good design. Instead of nerfing the killer and risking making them them too weak they are unplayed, they prevent certain combinations from existing. Bad design is what they did to ruin. Nerfed because of high mobile killers, now the perk is too weak and will need to be buffed.
You have responded twice now and have not addressed my point.
Why is it bad for balance for certain killers to not have access to certain perks for balance.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3085414#Comment_3085414
You wrote a whole lot to justify how you feel, using only subjective comments. Thankfully, no dev is going to agree with the people who reccomend that perks should just be turned off al a carte for killers. They know better.
That's not... counterpoint. This is very common in a lot of games. Certain roles that are suited for specific areas are denied access to certain abilities for the sake of balance.
I don't know why you think DBD is special. If you can point out why this wouldn't fix a lot of balancing issues for the killer side, I would be happy to hear your thoughts. Otherwise there is no need to respond with "your wrong, I don't care what you think."
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@foxsansbox said:
I hate the slippery slope fallacy, I really do, it's lazy and easy to abuse.
But I know that there isn't a universe in existence where her M1 becomes a special attack and y'all don't immediately start losing your minds over 4 gen slowdown Nurse.
Not. A. Single. Universe.
I mean... should they not. If balance is so important, would it not make sense for killers who are really strong, or even just really strong in one area, not have access to certain perks.
It would actually make the game easier to balance around, as instead of perks being nerfed to the point of being far to weak, you simply prevent certain killers form have access to them. That is what caused the nerf to ruin/tinker. The combination was fine on a majority of killers, however killers towards the top end or with high mobility, the combination was way to oppressive. Instead of just nerfing the perk, you prevent certain killers form accessing it, soft nerfing specific combinations, without actually nerfing the perk to the point of being weak.
The fact is Nurse doesn't need any perks, any half way decent Nurse player can demonstrate this. Preventing her access to most if not all gen slow down perks would quite honestly fix a lot issues with her, without removing her from the top place, you would just need to reach the skill needed play at that level, making her strong, but earned.
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081844#Comment_3081844
I don't think @Pulsar went out to ruin a Killers match. I really hate that survivors get blamed for every little evil thing that killers do.
Neither did I... which is why I never said that. I am confused.
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NO REALLY
People knowing that everyone will have 5 seconds of BT and ae playing around it. No way, I don't believe you.
But in all serious, people developed the dribble technique to work around old DS... you think people wouldn't work around 5 seconds of BT. The devs must really think so little of their players. I mean these are the same people who designed DBD with the intention of survivors dropping pallets and killers just following behind breaking them. So they don't give their player base much credit.
But hey they tired. So who knows, maybe they will look at it again in another year if you behave.
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What I find most interesting in your videos is the fact that you were being camped at 3 gens. One on your first hook and the second on your second hook. Both matches the killer went with the intention of this being the strategy, which means they either
A: Were trying to ruin your matches.
Or B: Planned to camp at the start as they believed it was a valid strategy.
Or most likely C both.
I wish you luck Pulsar.
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The new meta is way more interesting, less frustrating and more skilful
The most optimal way to play killer has always been to camp. Which is why they introduced the emblem system in order try to decrease usage of this strategy before they ultimately threw it out the window for a system based entirely off kills. This new DBD 2.0 does not change this. In fact it makes camping even more optimal then it was before. Maybe that's the direction people want, but it is certainly not skilful.
Similarly there is far more of a focus on the importance of gens then ever before, as the extra gen time combined with the shorter chase time inherently makes gens harder while also soft buffing every single anti gen perk in the game. Which is not only les interesting but also less skilful.
If you enjoy the patch all the power to you. however please don't call it skilful, if anything its actually the removal of skill for the sake lowering the skill ceiling in order to ensure killers don't feel as dominated.
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That's an.... interesting pov
You can't bully killers like you used to. The base meta kit to bully killers was gutted. And you hate it.
Nope. If I wanted to bully killers I could run head on with flashlights with my friends and click my flashlight. This patches changes nothing of this. You think people who are going out their way to make you upset, which is different then people paying to win, care? Even if this game did take away their edge, they would go play something else. If you are truly encountering less "bullies." Its more likely that you were never facing bullies, you were just facing competent players and have now been buffed to compete with them with less effort proven by your last point
The extra 10 seconds? Forcing you to cooperate instead of antagonizing the killer into chasing you.
That just means survivors have to focus on generators more not less.. which I thought killers didn't want. Basically matches will fall under two categories. Survivors know they need to focus on gens and therefore gen times ill change very little as 50 seconds a match isn't that much. Or survivors won't do gens because an extra 50 seconds of gen repair is pretty boring, meaning they are more likely throw matches for entertainment.
The 2% cooldown on attacks? Forces you to pick your unhook time a bit better.
Just.. no. Why would you ever make it easier to camp. It would be like buffing survivors who drop pallets early. Its not good design to buff something that is easy. Otherwise why would anyone do anything but camp.
The increased bloodlust accrual? Forces you to try and and get creative in losing us for a chase.
If that's going to be a thing again, losing killers in chases, can we please revert the lighting back to the darker lighting. Before killers threw a fit that it was unfair because survivors were using the danker lighting to lose chases, so they had to make everything brighter.
Because you can't bully killers into quitting anymore, many are throwing a fit. However, look at this patch like this;
I'm quitting because I don't want to repair gens for a minimum 90 seconds per gen a match.
It gives everyone experimentation amd freedom to practice characters and perks they've never tried because of the previous Meta.
That is such poor design. So you want to both win, but you don't want have to try. That is serious entitlement. How can you call DBD balanced if you are going against plyers who want to win and bringing in their best things and you don't need to bring your best things to compete? If you are experimenting it means you are inexperienced. You should not be winning matches that you are inexperienced with, you need to invest time to earn your wins. If you are now winning while getting to run weaker builds or killers that you have little practice with. Demonstrates less of of your own skill, and more that survivors cannot deal with the base game mechanics.
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@Reshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/336249/new-patch-is-garbage
Survivors will adapt to not having dead hard.
Shorter chases but with no actual increased skill input for killers
Only one new perk of value of introduced, which is just a second version of BT. Meaning survivors don't have things to look forward to.
Longer matches but with less interaction with the killer
Longer gen times, resulting in interest deteriorating faster.
One minor tool to deal with tunnelling, combined with multiple buffs to camping ad tunnelling. Ensuring that camping and tunnelling is now so optimal that killers will have to choose to play in a way that is counterintuitive to the goal of winning, meaning they will have to actively throw matches just to ensure players are motivated to keep playing.
Lack of a meta shift for killers as anti gen perks were the best perks before the patch, and that factor remains, just with new anti gen perks.
None of this has anything to do with Dead hard.
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The problem is what you said.
" the game just feels more fair now, especially for the M1 killers."
The game should not be fair for M1 killers. If M1 killers aren't struggling then the game is massively unbalanced. I know controversial every single killer should be viable. But that's just not good design. How can a killer that is forced to commit to loops be even close to viable when killers like doctor let alone blight exist.
If the weaker killers are not struggling, what does that say about the stronger killers? This feels like a very noob friendly patch for killers, to bring in new players who don't have he time or interest to reach the skill needed to win. Survivors once again have lost things and have gained very little, so survivor is not only harder, but more boring.
This patch the devs through out a bunch of ideas with no real cohesion and plan. By their own words, change the meta just for the sake of change.
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Can I ask where you got those numbers from. I'm genuinely curious.
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The logic for this patch is so bizarre.
We will make killer easier so they don't need to run anti gen perks all the time.
"But won't killers still run them but now the base changes included?'
No of course not killers wouldn't do that.
These changes clearly come from listening to one pov.
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That was some of the worst killer movement I have ever seen.
I mean come on be serious.
That entire first pallet the bubba was actually losing distance, more then once. Then he walks into the pallet... as bubba. That is bad. That is terrible movement, you do not deserve to win, if you play objectively bad.
He then tired to mindgame the bathroom pallet, which he only made it too because of a meta perk. Even commentator is confused.
He tries moonwalking.. in plain view on some pallets. he clearly has watched experienced killers and has tired to mimic but has no idea how to use it or why it works.
We could break down every single loop and why its clear he has no experience playing any killer, let a lone bubba. But seriously no if you play like that, you don't deserve to win.
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New patch has a lot of problems for survivors but I am quitting for one reason. I am not going to repair gens for 90 seconds.
I understand the devs want to help killers who are underperforming but their method was extremely lazy and is going to get borring fast. People seem to forget that the gen times have changed over the years and they have tested longer gen speeds. 80 seconds was chosen because it was considered roughly how long survivors would be willing to repair generators for before getting bored. To be clear I am not opposed to increasing the time for the gates to be powered but to increase the time on top of this, even if killers play the game without camping or tunnelling, it will get boring quick.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062966#Comment_3062966
The problem with that is that peoples' personal ideas of fun are too subjective for that to even be worth looking at except for when massive patterns emerge (i.e., say there's a DC in 10% of games and 30% of games against Legion.)
Like you said, plenty of things ruin fun for players, but there's almost no consensus on what that fun is. Yeah, tons of people hate Nurse/Legion/Twins/Hag and will bail when they see them, and maybe that speaks towards something wrong with those killers' designs. But nothing in-game will ever justify people who get mad when their first chase doesn't go the way they want to and kill themselves so they can have a better start next game, and yet that's the most common thing I see. Same with people getting pissed over wonky latency or something their teammates did. Other times I see ragequits because the killer didn't fall for a tech or ran Lightborn, and is therefore deemed not fun to play against by survivors who are less interested in winning and more interested in making plays.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that a DC or suicide occurring is not inherently a statement of something that needs to be fixed. It can be, but it's just as often if not more an issue with player entitlement.
Is that right? I think there is some general consensus on what fun is. Is fun was really as subjective, then nobody could complain about anything. I mean, if it was true, then anyone who complains about anything could be responded with, just because you're not having fun doesn't mean I'm not. There may be some subjectivity But when most people love Huntress, or Hillbilly, most people seem to hate trickster and leatherface. So similar, yet people respond so differently.
" But nothing in-game will ever justify people who get mad when their first chase doesn't go the way they want to and kill themselves so they can have a better start next game."
Here is the problem with that. Camping. If a survivor goes down at 5 gens and the killer chooses to camp, that survivor will die, and it is very unlikely 5 gens can be finished in that time. With deadlock, its almost guaranteed 3 kills. This could happen at any point and there is nothing to prevent this. And you don't think people have a reason to give up?
"Same with people getting pissed over wonky latency or something their teammates did"
That's a valid reason. Bad teammates or the game just not working is a valid reason.
Other times I see ragequits because the killer didn't fall for a tech or ran Lightborn, and is therefore deemed not fun to play against by survivors who are less interested in winning and more interested in making plays.
I guess, but I would rather deal with a few rage quitters then force people to remain in matches where one side has the overwhelming advantage. You are crating more problems then you solve.
A DC or suicide occurring is not inherently a statement of something that needs to be fixed. It can be, but it's just as often if not more an issue with player entitlement.
That's subjective. I would say people give the most because of bad teammates.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062947#Comment_3062947
It is a problem when you giving up ruins it for everyone else.
Plenty of things ruin the fun for players.
In fact certain killers are just not fun to go against. Can we agree to ban The twins until they ae fun? Or leatehrface? or Leigon? Camping is not fun. Maybe its better to focus on why people give up, rather then just the action itself?
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That's an unfortunate mind-set.
People genuinely wonder why there is so much hostility in this game.
I respect players that try to make the game interesting and unpredictable, even if it is not the most efferent. Those are the players who prioritize fun over winning. I support this, and I want as many players as possible to know it makes matches better for everyone.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062910#Comment_3062910
Most of the matches that are obviously not winnable are when someone suicides/dcs at 5 gens.
Your point? People give up in games. I don't know what you want to do about that? I don't think that's a problem. But thanks to the DC penalty people can be have matches dragged out. At the minimum, people still have the option to allow the game naturally kill them off so they can move on, and you want to make that worse?
I don't understand how you can't se this causing but nothing but problems in the future.
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I mean... it was pretty obvious what would happen when introducing the DC penalty. People would just suicide on hook, and this would not solve anything. It causes way more problems then it solves.
People shouldn't be forced to participle in a match that is unfun, when it quite easy to ruin the fun for everyone else. So no, I am glad people can bail on a match if a killer chooses to camp. Or if their teammates aren't doing anything. Or a match becomes apparent that win is not achievable, so you give up and move on to the next one.
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@Emeal said:
@Icaurs If Killers are the strongest they have ever been, Why are Survivor Flee time when hurt getting reduced, why are Killer successful attack cooldown getting reduced, Why are pallet breaking speed also reduced, Why have bhvr said Killers are not as threatening as intended?
Seems weird to buff Killers when they are 'stronger than they have ever been'?
I don't really understand your question? Why are killers getting buffed despite being stronger? Because they base wins off 2 kill baseline? Which proves nothing as most matches tend to favour one side or another? I mean you could ask why did they try to further prevent tunnelling, despite tunnelling being weaker now then it was 4 years ago? Its the same reason, because of 6 year old game design that people have become more efficient in.
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The devs have tired everything to to fix camping.
They tired offering killer rewards
They tried punishing killers
They tired giving survivors anticamping buffs.
hasn't worked. See the problem was camping has allays been a problem, but their thought process was ok, killers camp, and sure some times killers will do it just to be pain, but no reasonable person would spend 2 hours a night standing in front of a hook, just to win? Oh boy were they wrong.
Camping is worse now then it has ever been, despite killers being the strongest they have ever been in the history of DBD. Showing nothing but massive game altering design will change this.
Ultimately I don't understand how most games in existence have rules in place to prevent certain strategies form existing, because people acknowledge that if these strategies are allowed they ruin the enjoyment, Draw decks in yugioh, underarm bowls in cricket, Geomancy Xernes in pokemon. Some things just should not exist, and in any other game in existence, people say "Sure, lets make try to take steps to stop this in order to prevent this. But DBD is the one and only game that I have ever seen people, so adamantly fight for right to play that robs enjoyment for everyone involved.
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@TeleportingTurkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058542#Comment_3058542
so for a killer to have a good design they must have a reliable effective counterplay that you can apply every time you deal with them and thus win the game, is that correct?
Nurse's counterplay is exactly the same if not more fair than the amount of counterplay survivors have when you play m1 killer. When they have LoS on you, you can't win the chase, unless they make a mistake, they just waste massive amounts of your time and you lose the game. When they don't have a LoS on you, you have a chance of winning the chase if you pull off mindgames, aka try to be unpredictable so that survivor makes a bad guess because of the lack of info and loses a chase.
Nurse literally reverses the situation M1 killers have with survivors and the hypocrisy of people ignoring that is almost amusing if it wasn't so widespread.
You are correct Nurse is like the reverse of M1 killers where M1 killers require survivor error to make plays, Nurse is the opposite. M1 killers do need to be addressed, no different then Nurse
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3057561#Comment_3057561
You are ignoring that mindgames depend on the skill of both sides. Also, sure, Nurse can theoretically hit you 100% of the time, but no one can see the future and win every single mindgame consistently. It is not dependent solely on the Nurse's level. It is dependent on both sides' skill at mindgaming.
Case in point: Nurse sees the survivor looking back, expects double back. So she does the first blink a little shorter to not over blink. The survivor expected she would read it that way and looked backwards on purpose without doubling back. But the Nurse may have expected that and blinked like normal. But if the survivor expected she would think the look back is a fake, then they actually double back. It all comes down to BOTH SIDES.
I think people overestimate the skill needed to play Nurse. For DBD, yes she requires quite a bit of skill, but that's only really because most killers are very easy to play. DBD is clunky and has never been very precise. To hit those 100% requires nowhere near the precision and prediction needed with the top characters in many other games. I recommend watching gameplay of high end Jets from Valorant. In my mind, that is what the skill should be required in order to justify being so oppressive. The fact is if you can't reach a point where you are hitting the overwhelming majority of your hits as Nurse despite playing for a dedicated amount of time.. are you really that good? Also you don't need to hit 100% of your blinks. You need hit 50%. One chain blink to position yourself 2nd to hit. Anything more then that, you have done something wrong and its your error, not the survivor skill.
@Alphasoul05 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3057561#Comment_3057561
That is.. literally counterplay. You're doing something with the expectation that it may or may not work. If a Billy is charging and he's gonna chainsaw through shack door, you have the option to a) take the window or b) go to the pallet. You know it's possible for both to be true, since an unskilled Billy probably won't accomplish anything. Since And besides, if we're talking "theoretically" then the odds of a Nurse hitting 100% of their blinks is nonexistent because you're looking into tournament level Nurse's at that point. I know people want to believe that's every Nurse but, well, it's fortunately not.
That's... interesting counterplay.
So your understanding of counterplay, is an action that only may guarantee you success, based off the assumption, that the person doing the initial action, was doing it incorrectly to begin with. I do not agree. I don't know what more to say. That does not sound like good design. At that point, players are just training bots for you to improve.
What is with this assumption that for a nurse to hit ever single blink, requires tournament level to achieve this. Nurse does not require anywhere near the level of precision of some games. Assuming you play nurse fairly regularly and you not hitting the majority of the hits, how can you call yourself good enough to make a judgement call on how strong she is? You have the assumption that people are bad with her.. but they are not. Most people can land at least 50% of their blinks, which is not hard and even easier when in a chase, its extremely rare to not be within her attack range. If you can hit 50%, you will win any match. The only exception is when the generators are rushed. Which I stated was the only legitimate coutnerplay.
I mean.. would you hold that position for anything else? Gen speeds can go in 5 minutes. Well that's only tournament level.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056208#Comment_3056208
If you weren’t so fragile about forum upvotes, but rather concerned about the truth and getting better as a survivor, this would be a nonissue. Your post is blatant lying. It’s been shown time and again (on this very thread of now nine pages, mind you) - both on paper and in-game - that Nurse does have plenty of counter play, and is not holding the game back. If you only stick to repairing generators nonstop in every circumstance against a Nurse hoping to win, I have zero consolation for you. A good survivor knows when it’s time to run or hide. That goes for any killer.
Lying does not help any of you that want Nurse nerfed or reworked. If you want it, fine, voice your desire for it. But don’t speak untruths trying to get there.
I think you and many people confuse counterplay with RNG.
If a person does x and somebody does Y to stop it, that would be counterplay.
But if a person does x and a person does Y to stop it but Y working is dependent on the skill of x, is that counterplay?
Breaking line of sight would be the main strategy. However good nurses can gauge where somebody is you can try it, however the nurse in theory can hit you 100% of the time. Every chase is dependent on their skill level, which would be ok except a Nurse at the top has a downing potential of less then 30 seconds every chase .