Icaurs
Icaurs
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2947694#Comment_2947694
Sorry I don't mean to be rude but
Did you read my original post? Nowhere have I said it would apply to multiple gens at once. It shouldn't.
Let's say you have 3 gens. ABC
You kick Gen A - It now has Dragon's Grip for 30 seconds
You kick Gen B - No exposure
Then those 30 seconds pass and you kick Gen C - Gen C now has Dragon's Grip on it, but Gen A no longer does because the 30 seconds passed.
Does that make more sense?
Ok I don't mean to be rude but... where did I say that you said you wanted to apply the perk to multiple gens at once?
Did you mean "and can be applied whenever the killer wants.?" Because I then say "if the survivor avoids the perk, the killer gets 30 seconds of no progress on the gen. If they don't the killer is then informed, that not only is somebody is exposed." As in referring to one gen. I am a little unsure where you got the idea that I thought you wanted to apply it on every generator.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2947645#Comment_2947645
In your first paragraph you essentially outlined how I think it should work
It starts activated like it does now, you kick a gen - that gen now has Dragon's grip applied to it for however long. If a survivor triggers it, they are exposed and the perk goes on cooldown. If that gen doesn't get touched, then the perk refreshes itself. The same way Blast Mine does if the killer doesn't kick the marked generator. Only 1 gen can be affected at a time, same way it works now.
I think it's fine for it to start activated because like I said it's a killer perk I don't think it needs any pre-requisite. The way it is now with a QOL change is all the perk needs to be decent. Not meta but decent
Again I'm not comparing the perks on a 'balance' level, I'm not saying the perks are as strong as each other - I'm saying that I like the way you keep Blast Mine (With a lesser cooldown basically) until it's used then it resets.
Btw Dragon's grip does not reveal auras, it reveals a survivor location bubble. It doesn't show which direction they went in. It's the same as the Pain res scream
The problem is the exposure status affect, is very strong. Not every meta killer perk needs pre-requisites to activate, but by default exposure based perks generally should. The change you want is to make it so that any generator, kicked, has the exposure status attached to it, and can be applied whenever the killer wants, if the survivor avoids the perk, the killer gets 30 seconds of no progress on the gen. If they don't the killer is then informed, that not only is somebody is exposed, where they are but which generator the survivors are working on. You really don't think that would become a meta perk? That would be way stronger then Haunted ground. Even worse, is as the game progress, the few generators the killer has to patrol, the stronger the perk becomes. At 5 gens, survivors can work around. At 2 or 1 gens? There would be no way to work around it. I would only consider that balanced, if it was a Hex perk.
Also, my mistake, I think I confused dragon's grip with iron maiden.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2947439#Comment_2947439
My point of comparison isn't anything to do with Blast Mine balance wise. Blast Mine is being used as an example of a perk that can be applied to a gen but then refreshes if it doesn't trigger. You can constantly apply Blast Mine until it goes off, which is what causes it to 'reset' (Which is basically its cooldown)
Dragon's Grip also has an easy counter - touch the gen while injured which will trigger it's length cooldown. The cooldown is what kills the perks viability. Letting the perk be 'refreshed' if it's effect doesn't trigger would make running it actually worth a perk slot
Call of Brine also works in a similar way, but it's a v different effect.
So would you rather it worked like blast mine, where, yes, you can re apply it if it doesn't go off, but in order to trigger, lets say you need a hook. As blast mine requires a set percentage of a generator in order to activate, instead of being able to apply it whenever you want. In addition, you cannot hold multiple dragon's grips at once. So while the perk is active, you cannot apply it until the timer has warn off, and once it does get value, the perk is then disabled, until, say your next hook. Because that's how Blast mine works. If I had a choice between making Blast mine work as the same way Dragon's Grip works, that would be a massive buff. I know that hooks and generators are not an exact comparison, but then again neither is blast mine and dragon's grip.
Your counter to dragon's grip is a little.. weird. You assume that the survivor knows you have dragon's grip applied to that generator. If he was injured, why would he activate it, near the killer? Also is this under the assumption of SWF, because if not I doubt everyone will wait for an injured person to touch a gen and even be able to communicate that is the gen that has dragon's grip applied? Even if they do know, by the time an injured person arrives at the gen, the timer would almost be over, and they may as well wait it out. It would be better to use the time to heal the teammate and wait out the timer of the perk. This also doesn't counter Dragon's grip, second effect, making the survivor scream, giving away their position, and having their aura revealed, showing which direction they ran in.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2947421#Comment_2947421
I don't see why it needs to have such a limiting condition like that?
It's a killer perk, it should be much stronger by default
Also I disagree, it's not a viable perk because it spends half of the game in cooldown and does nothing for you. The only killers I've seen Dragon's Grip be useful on is Onyro and Wraith. It's a fun perk for sure, but It could be much better imo!
Blast mine is balanced, because, it can only be used a set amount of times, while Dragon's grip is balanced, because the killer can re apply it indefinitely.
Dragon's grip is far stronger then blast mine because generators are the survivor's objective while the survivor is the killer's. Lets say a killer is approaching your gen and you activate blast mine, if the killer stops to kick the gen, you gain a tone of distance. However if the killer chooses to ignore the gen and focus you, you gain no value. Its a bit of a gamble of a perk. Its entirely possible the killer won't even bother to kick the gen if they are running, pain resonance, dead man's switch, Hex: ruin (ect). However a survivor is forced to work on the generator, as it is their objective.
Dragon's grip woks better on high mobility killers (Nurse, blight, Hillbilly) ect. Its certainly not meta, but pop, dragon's grip combo, can work, and its quite fun.
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You should be getting at least one kill before the exit gates are powered. I fully agree that's impossible to get 12 hooks, but if you are failing to get less then 4-5 regularly, then you are doing something wrong. The bigger issue is most matches, the killer gets 1 kill by the time all the generators are finished. They then camp the last survivor to death, for a total of 2 kills. Typically getting 5-6 hooks, and 2 kills. The devs consider 2 kills, as baseline for a balanced killer and see no issue with their power, and thus they remain as they are.
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You have to remember that Blast mine can only be used so many times. It does not recover through time, but through gen progression, so I don't think they're a fair comparison. I would be fine with making it so Dragon's grip auto-recovers like blast mine, if a survivor does not touch it, but they would need to make it harder to activate the perk. For example, each time a generator is completed, the killer can use it one time. Making it a total of 5 times a match. Otherwise Dragon's grip should be left the way it is. Its still a fun, viable perk.
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I mean if a player gives up... they are just going to, not participate. Can't ######### on first hook, they will AFK kill themselves on second. Remove the survivors agency on both stages, they will just afk until death. Because players, have the option to leave, after a player dies, survivors will always have a reason to suicide on hook.
However if you remove survivors ability to leave a match after dying, killers will be able to hold matches hostage, even after a player dies. Its one of those things with no real solution, and I think we just need to deal with it.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2946226#Comment_2946226
See you on the 17th, friendo.
LMAO you did a second time, XD
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2946033#Comment_2946033
Pretty good example that a post can contain many words without being factual.
" If you are using dead hard for distance, then you only have a very basic understanding of the the perk."
Beautiful, lol
And this is a perfect example of criticising a post.. without actually saying anything. Just you're wrong and bad.
The post explains in great detail that a proper use of dead hard, forces a missed attack. The reason, is that if you use dead hard for distance, the killer keeps his momentum, so the value of the perk is far less. Now you can use dead hard for distance, but that's only because you can use it, while in the killer's lunge range, so the killer can't touch you. If you use it outside the killer's range, he will keep his momentum, and will beat you around the tile at most loops.
This isn't every complicated.
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@xEmoGirlxAlexisx said:
Camping and tunneling is sadly the best Thing Killers can do to have a chance at high rank because of the awful Balancing
Im watching a German Streamer who is a very Good Killer at high rank and he has try to play Games whitout tunneling and Camping ans most Game was very stressful and he didnt had a Chance
If the Devs would Balance the Insane Gen Speed, Nerf Dead Hard and CoH or Networking the Maps so they are going to be smaller Killers would have a better Chance and less Killer would Camp or Tunneling
You cannot change the gen speeds. As it stands, if a killer chooses to camp there is only just enough time to do the generators before he dies. usually, it isn't even enough time, and survivors need to trade places to buy more time. Camping would be more optimal if gen speeds were altered, because time would be in the killer's favour.
I'm sure people will say "well if gen speeds are fixed, then we can fix camping." How? Put in a in game mechanic to prevent camping (pausing the hook timer). Won't work, its been tested and can be abused. Make it so the hook moves or something? Maybe but I see an issue with killers abusing that to prevent unhooks. Believe me, the devs have attempted to fix this, and nothing has worked. The only reasonable solution would be to make it so killers receive less blood points. But that wouldn't work, because the killer only needs to focus, 1 survivor out of the match for the game, then can play the rest of the match normally.
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The foundation of DBD pipping, hinges on you playing well, but also playing badly. You loop the killer for 5 gens and escape. You get zero altruism and zero light bringer. You do all 5 gens, while your teammates go for saves, and loops, zero for those categories. The fastest way to rank up is through altruism, you get the most points for the least amount of work. 2 saves, and 2 heals I think gets you iridescent. Everything other then that is up too chance.
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2945192#Comment_2945192
Great examples of on demand... Not.
Overcome, Iron grapes/will, brutal strength and corrupt intervention aren't on demand but passive skills. You have no influence of when to use them or rather no option using them out of context. Dead hard? Over a trap, though a killer between loops, dodge a hit, all of that whenever you want at the tip of a button.
Sprint burst is the only perk close to dead hard in that regard but you have to either not run everywhere or manage your exhaustion.
No, i talk to you from the other side. Dodge my hit? Yeah without a pallet or a vault RIGHT THERE i get you in a few seconds and you go down anyway. (That vault you talk about wasn't point of any argumentation until now but good job changing to a specific scenario) But a dead hard to go another round of the loop and being too greedy or trying to chain loops and that also cutting it close, dead hard and you are fine and the killer can't do anything.
And again, no other exhaustion perk can be used as easy as dead hard, either you have to meticulously plan your route for a vault/drop or manage your SB and overcome is not your call to use but inevitable after the hit.
Ehm, remind me again where i mock you anywhere in my post? I don't remember which parts i edited.
And I don't have to improve my fundamentals, i already quit the game in December/January and am mostly here for entertainment on my break at work after the lol forum had been shut down to years ago.
This is called a loop, a standard loop has what is known as a short side and a long side, with a pallet inbetween. Now most loops can actually be mindgamed by the killer. A mindgame is when you move back and forth in an attempt to out position the survivor to either, A force the pallet drop or B hit the survivor. This is how you play DBD.
In DBD you have what are known as exhaustion perks. exhaustion perks artificially extends the chase, when outside the killer's attack range. The standard exhaustion perk moves at 150% for 3 seconds, however there are exceptions. Every single perk has set criteria on when and how it can be used, but they all have one thing income. Its used outside the killer's attack range. This is considered fair and balanced, due to the very fast downing potential of killers There is however one difference (dead hard).
Dead Hard's one and only difference is that it can be used to autocorrect a mistake. When looping the killer, at the above the image, its important to understand that as a survivor is capable of gauging the range of a killer's lunge. When using dead hard, a survivor's burst of speed doesn't matter much. What does matter, is that the killer is incapable of hitting the survivor with his lunge attack. Despite knowing this, the killer is forced to go for the lunge attack anyway, because he needs to fore the survivor to use his dead hard. Once the killer has missed his attack, the killer's momentum is slowed down massively. To the point, that the survivor is can get an entire loop around the pallet before dropping it, because missing an attack on most loops will allow for this. If you are using dead hard for distance, then you only have a very basic understanding of the the perk. Your exact words were "Dodging a hit doesn't do much. The distance gained by the killers hit CD often isn't even enough to make it to another pallet." This is why I said you have no idea how to use the perk. A missed attack should allow for a survivor to get a full loop around the pallet. As in they continue the current loop, before dropping the pallet on the next loop. This is why Dead hard is called the 3 hit perk. If you are dead Harding to a pallet, the killer keeps his momentum, you are still forced to drop the pallet. This is fine, and balanced. If you take issue with that, then I don't know what to say other then just.. get better. The bar can only be lowered so much.
Now lets say we removed the invulnerability. Even if used, it is impossible to get the hit, the killer has two options. 1. continuing through, this will force the pallet drop, 2. The killer doubles back in hopes that the survivor is out positioned and can get a hit in. Either way the killer is not punished. The pallet is dropped and the killer can begin mindingaming the pallet while keeping momentum. Using the perk out in the open will offer little value for the same reason, making it necessary to use the perk at loops, and not out in the open.
Also I just read that you quit DBD and yet still post on the DBD forums... I have no words.
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@Viskod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2945099#Comment_2945099
Then they'd just be better off taking Overcome.
Probably, but that is what happens with any meta nerf. Any nerf to dead hard, and overcome will take it, it's very strong.
@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2945109#Comment_2945109
An on demand spurt of distance allowing for the chase to continue further for 20 meters?
No other perk is as "on demand" without any real downside like dead hard.
Dodging a hit doesn't do much. The distance gained by the killers hit CD often isn't even enough to make it to another pallet. Also at that point survivor are forced to use or go down. For distance there are not even in danger, they just can be greedy and make another loop before going for the next.
And again every other exhaustion perk has some form of restriction/condition to play around. Being injured isn't like that. Before healing meta came back good survivor preferred to play injured and save the healing time.
No other perk apparently.
Overcome, coruped intervention, Iron will, Brutal strength. Nope no other on demand perks.
"Dodging a hit doesn't do much"
What? Are you for real? You mock me in your eddit and you have no idea how to use the perk? The one and only issue with dead hard is that a player can auto correct a mistake by dead Harding through a hit. You use it to evade the hit and then vault back over whatever the killer cut you off at. But you are telling me you use it outside the killer's attack range when looping? Because you can't loop properly? Maybe you meant use it too chain 2 lopps that cannot be chained but that applies to every exhaustion perk. You clearly lack the fundamentals of this game and I suggest practising before making game altering forum posts.
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@txcrnr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2945105#Comment_2945105
Do you like facing ALL nurses, or only nurses that make a decent amount of mistakes? I can assure you that I have never once had fun against the 4000 hour Nurse mains that land every single blink perfectly and yet still feel the need to tunnel and slug people to death.
Nurses that slug, tunnel? No, of course not. That sounds awful, and I really hate the infectious fright Nurse. A 4000 hour nurse, that makes no mistakes. A little bit yes. The match is super intense Every second counts and I need to be on my A game to win.
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2945099#Comment_2945099
And another person that thinks that the baitable hit-dodge is the part that people don't like instead of the interaction-less unbaitable/-counterable dead hard for distance outside of the killers range. 😫🤦
If your problem with dead hard is that survivors use it for distance.. then your just complaining because somebody is better then you. Should a perk exist that allows a survivor to autocorrect a mistake? No, I think that's too much. Should a perk exist too gain some distance in some chase... I mean yeah. That's fine. There are plenty of perks/combos that don't allow for counteprlay. Corupt intervention, tinker (ect) Why is dead hard any different?
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Nurse comes from a time where the devs prioritized fun over balance. Nurse is one of my favourite killers to play and vs and I would not want a thing changed about her. However, part way through DBD's life the community pushed for more of a competitive mindset (especially the killers), which I strongly disagreed with. The fact is Nurse is 100% broken. If the game community wants to keep taking the game down a competitive balanced mindset, then yes she needs to be nerfed. But if they want to allow wacky outlandish things for both survivors and killers, then Nurse is fine, and should not be touched.
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Simple rework, remove the invulnerability. Make it so it its used to gain a set amount of distance instantly, as oppose to evading a hit. The only problem with dead hard is that it is used to auto correct a hit. By taking that away but making it o that it can still be used to gain a set amount of distance instantly it will still be strong, but at least a survivor won't be able to just correct a mistake instantly with E.
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Oh no, a survivor countered something. Its really unfair when players do that isn't it.
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Yes, they range in terms of skill but some play killer at a fairly high level.
- The boil over buff was more of an oversight on I believe 2 maps. The vast majority of maps, have a hook on the second floor, and those that don't usually have one fairly close. Instead of changing the perk, they fixed these few examples, and now boil over is rarely used again, unless combined in a team or with sabatour.
- COH, went through many variants and was nerfed each time. Ultimately I think COH is just bad design in general, as giving all survivors self care, removes their reliance on teammates. However this is far from a survivor based issue (looks at Hex: Undying).
- Again the same could be said for survivors (looks at Midwitch). Some maps are just poorly designed. Indoor maps just don't work, same as maps with multiple levels. Its extremely hard to make balanced, but I would say most maps are fine the way they are now.
In all DBD is a fairly balanced game, in the sense that it is unbalanced for both sides. Anytime you say "How is Dead Hard balanced." Players respond with "How is Corupted intervention balanced?" How is Nurse balanced? How is corupt, Ruin, pain resonance, deadlock balanced? There are plenty of things on both sides that are way to powerful, but they feel less powerful, because they have other overpowered things to compare them too. The devs have plenty of issues, but DBD is more balanced now then it has ever been. Killers are stronger now then they have been in any point in DBD's history and its because of the devs.
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@squbax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2943670#Comment_2943670
I mean even if you win without tunneling or camping you are gonna get trashtalked so it probably doesnt matter in the end.
If that's what you believe, then I'm sorry you have such a negative attitude. As I said play however you want, it's not against the rules.
However please don't use an excuse that you may be trash talked at the end. At least own that your attitude is the reason you may be taunted at the end.
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Soul guard, unbreakable, tenacity, flip flop. The anti-slugging build.
Flash bang, quick and quiet, head on, poised. The chase me build.
Quick and quiet, Lithe, Dance with me, boon shadow step. The anti tracking build.
Autodidact, solidarity, resurgence, Renewal. The insta healing build.
Wake up, hope, BT. adrenalin. The endgame build.
Mettle of man, saboteur, breakout, Dead hard. The sabotage build.
Situational awareness, prove thyslef, blast mine, visionary. The gen jockey build.
urban invasion, distortion, boon shadow step, fixated. The stealth build.
Overcome, lucky break, iron will, lightweight. For if you want to run something strong, but not meta.
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Anyone is more then welcome to play however they want in this game. As stated by the proper rules outlined by the developers.
However as a killer, players must understand that using certain strategies, will not be treated with respect. I don't mind losing to a competitive Nurse, even if they are sweaty, because I recognise their skill, and can appreciate that, even if I am not playing as serious. However even if I were to survive against a killer that camp/tunnels. I know that killer is ruining the enjoyment of a player, its not a good mindset. Some players will say "Its not my reasonability to make sure everyone else is having fun." If everybody has this mindset, then I and many people would stop playing this game immediately.
Anyone can play killer however they want, however don't be surprised that if you play in a way that spreads negativity, if some of that negativity come back at you.
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You're very new. Maybe practice more before demanding massive game changing mechanics.
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I've always wanted a system in place, that rewards players for running off meta. Because its true, getting a 4K with 4 meta perks, is nowhere near as impressive as getting a 4K with 4 non meta perks. I wish the game recognised and rewarded this.
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Very fun.
Even against highly skilled Nurses, its cool to see somebody playing a killer that is legitimately hard to play and doing well. I commend them for that.
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If no way out shouldn't activate if the hatch is closed, then adrenalin should not activate if the hatch is closed.
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I would be fine with this change. cooperating with survivors should always be the driving point of the survivors perspective, and honestly too many perks focus on making the individual stronger, rather then the team. I think this would make COH far weaker, and probably off the meta roster, but honestly I think tis needed. Its clear that COH is different from other boons, and if it never existed , I don't think killers would have nearly as many problems with boons as they do now. Assuming the aura is revealed to all survivors across the map, then I have no issues.
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- Everyone has asked for ages, they are just lazy.
- The first point has been tested and can easily be abused by survivors. The second would be busted against high mobility killers.
- 5 seconds is useless. it can easily be waited out. Basekit BT would be better, but even that has its own problems.
- Firstly DBD does not have a large enough player base to support comp/ casual gamemodes. Secondly what exactly is banned in comp mode? Are certain builds banned, because dead man's switch is fairly weak by itself, but combined with pain resonance its meta? Would DS be banned in comp mode because its meta, or would it remain because without DS killers would camp all the time? Also how does this work exactly? Would Nurse be banned inherently because she is way too strong, or could you go into a casual match and sweat as much as you want with her? If anything goes in casual, then that would inherently mean sweatier builds. Here is a big issue, SWF. Most comp/ casual gamemodes allow players to join together in both gamemodes. Would SWF be allowed in both? If so then this would change little for the killer. Most killer meta perks are anti gen perks. If those perks are banned then they would have few ways to deal with gen speeds. And since gen speed would go so fast, they would resort to camping more often. With BT/DS presumably gone then survivors would have a miserable time.
- There isn't a large enough player base. Wait times for lobbies would shoot up for a bit, but go down way to fast.
- Trapper is extremely easy to play. There are many spots that are optimal and have the highest chance of working. The problem is that whether survivors disarm them or not is really out of your control. Spirit on the other hand requires time to learn how to use her power. She requires a lot of back walking during phase, and relies heavily on predicting survivors movements, while they have the ability to gauge roughly where your phase is.
- The bloodpoint cap is to stop hackers. As for SWF, if you think swf is really that awful that you need a blood point bonus, just to deal with it, then swf has way bigger issues and a bonus won't fix that. Ultimately I don't think SWF is really much harder, and an incentive is completely unneeded.
The main thing I took from the 350K stream event is that dbd has gotten to big and convoluted. Too many perks, killers, rules ectl. Players need two guides. One for the official rules. Second for the community rules.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939386#Comment_2939386
Well.... then it would be time to change them.
A first step wouls be to nerf the meta.
For example (just brainstorming): DS deactivates when the EGC starts. DH is only usable 2 times. BT only works when the killer is near, UB loses the recovery boost (we have a boon for that) etc.
Depends on the perk, and depends on the reason.
DS activates at endgame. Why, because the killer has to camp? So now I have to run a perk, exclusively to avoid be tunnelled, and its still may not even activate, even if I am directly tunnelled?
DH only has 2 uses? How about ruin only applies to one generator? Nerfing a perk into obscurity is terrible game design.
Here is the real issue with DBD. The design of killers are terrible. The vary massively in power. DH is overpowered? Well it depends. Are we talking about going against a trapper with sloppy, brutal strength, spies form the shadows and shadowborn? Then yes it is overpowered. Are we talking about a Nurse with corupt, ruin, dead man's switch and pain resonance? Not at all. The strength of killer's perks and powers vary between broken, and useless and as a result the survivor perks need to exist, so there is a reasonable way to beat a meta Nurse. The problem is when they take that same build and go up against said trapper. You can't change gen speeds, you can't change perks. The only thing you can change is player's attitudes, and unfortunately everybody is so suck they refuse to change.
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@Biscuits said:
Everyone in here awknowledging that people would dodge, proving my point that SWFs are not fun to play against. Whether they are sweaty or just trying to annoy the killer, they create a very bad experience for the killer.
My point is that there is a mindset that SWF is believed to be an inherently harder experience even if it isn't true. If survivors could tell, which killer and addons they were running, survivors would start dodging to avoid, spirits, nurse Blight ect. Or even weaker killers but with sweaty addons.
Proving that nobody wants to go up against sweaty survivors or killers but most people see no issues with themselves playing as sweaty as they want.
@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2940862#Comment_2940862
And this isn't true either.
When they first introduced individual MMRs, they set your lower minimum MMR to a certain amount below your highest, so this would have been true then.
There isn't a running check that raises your lowest MMR as you increase your highest.
So lets say you started with a 1500 Spirit, your Nurse would be a minimum of 1300. But if you increased your Spirit to 1800, your Nurse would still be 1300.
That's even worse. If your an experienced killer, you can take a lot of game knowledge that you have and apply it on many different killers, even if you are less effective. Lets say you lose for a wile, but as time goes on you should slowly start improving, hopefully at the same rate that you start winning matches. But if what you said is true, then you an experienced killer, anytime a new killer comes out gets to go up against a bunch of new survivors and destroy them. Even worse is these survivors will have little time investment and be far more likely to quit.
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Is This a Pigeon 08052022094901.jpg
Modern Dbd mindset
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2940765#Comment_2940765
It's quite necessary actually. Matchmaking is based on your killer's individual MMR.
If you're a god with Spirit, but a potato with Nurse, you'll be matched accordingly.
So if you could swap killers, you would just queue up as Nurse, be matched with potato survivors, then swap to Spirit so you could destroy them.
That's only kind of true. In Actuality if you have high MMR spirit, your Nurse will be set around the same. Not exactly as high, but about. What's more this change was implemented before SBMM was even under development. But maybe that is why they implemented the lock in change? If so that's enough thing SBMM ruined.
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@QueenSaccharine said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2940347#Comment_2940347
I agree that it wouldn't be a healthy addition to the game (although showing swfs in postgame lobbies would be neat), I'm just saying, comparing seeing a killer in advance + addons to knowing if a group of survivors is swf or solo isn't a fair comparison.
Besides, as it is, the especially toxic swfs and/or survivors that are blatantly hacking have a tendency to linger in lobbies with one character without an item, then wait until the timer hits 6 seconds, then immediately switch to pink haired Nea holding a flashlight. I've seen 3 survivors do this simultaneously. They're clearly doing this to avoid lobby dodging, but killers can't swap out to different killers once they're in a lobby, so they wouldn't even have this (admittedly very stupid) option.
Yeah I never understood why they forced killers into being locked into whatever killer they picked. I think it had something to do with when the hosting server was changed to be based off behaviour's servers instead of the killer, and they never reverted it? I'm not sure but yes, its unneeded.
But the last second change is done to minimise killer's dodging. Its a way to actually allow survivors to play sweaty, without waiting for an hour for a killer to agree. Its a perfect example as to why the post idea would not work.
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@QueenSaccharine said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2940260#Comment_2940260
I don't think the addons comparison is fair - killers still wouldn't be able to see survivor's addons, right? So they can see a toolbox in a lobby, and not know if it's a brown toolbox with no addons, or a yellow toolbox with gloves for a sabo team, or a green toolbox with brand new parts.
Being able to see which killer you're going up against before the match starts is a more fair comparison, but that would honestly result in way, wayyy more dodges than killers seeing a SWF team. Spirit players would never get a game because nearly every survivor main hates spirit. The complaints about "too many nurses and blights" would amplify tenfold. The only lobbies that won't get dodged are maybe, like, trapper.
Just a brief browse through this forum will show you how survivor mains think every killer is either way too powerful and needs heavily nerfed, or the killer is just too boring to play against and needs to be removed from the game because they're making the game too boring for survivors.
Now imagine that people like this could dodge any killer they want.
Which is exactly my point. Nobody wants to go against sweat, even if they are sweating themselves.
It would take for anyone to find a match, as everyone will keep dodging, looking for weak targets. I don't want this, but a killer should not be able to dodge a match because they are versing a man swf. Yet as a survivor get no warning they are about to verse the sweatiest nurse of 2022
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I have said this before, and I'm curious.
If killers are allowed to see SWF, so that they can determine a match is sweaty and no play. Would you be ok with survivors seeing which killer and addons they are versing so they can determine if a match is sweaty and not play? Or would survivors dodging every time you run iridescent addons be unfair somehow?
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Maps aren't designed with these as intended. It would create a tone of problems balance wise. Most notably the crawl mechanic would be broken. Hiding would become extremely effective, especially since there will be no groans of pain. Ultimately there is little value to this. For example take climbing ledges. How fast can they do it? If its too fast you risk creating broken loops. Too slow and they will never be used.
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Its a way to discourage tunnelling. They are hopping by not seeing who has been hooked, you will lose track and increase your chance of chasing somebody who hasn't been hooked. It may not be that effective, but it is an attempt. The question is why do you need to see survivors hook counters?
If you say (well I want to chase everyone evenly and I may lose track). If you have made a sincere attempt, but have lost track and by chance gone after the same person, then that's fine. Nobody can fault you for that, and if they do, you did nothing wrong. You said you need it for challenges. It is called a (challenge). It is called a challenge, it may take a couple of games and that's ok, not all of them should be done on your first attempt.
The fact is there is no valid reason for killers too need to see survivors hook counter.
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Tunnelling/camping is a massive problem in DBD. It is by far its biggest issue, and the dev history on it extremely poor. Camping/tunnelling is a problem so they needed to add add the swivel hook, and give survivors a one second immunity when hooked, but now that's not enough. They introduced multiple perks to discourage this, DS/BT, but also perks like off the record, and for the people. But none of this has worked.
Ultimately I get the feeling they have given up, and since they don't want to risk players quitting due to the frustration of being camped/tunnelled they have opted for a band aid fix of basekit BT. BT is a strong perk, but that's only because it is needed. In the event the game was played as intended (everybody gets 2 chances), the perk would be useless and get little value. Some people will point out that the devs have stated that camping is a recognised strategy, but that's only because it would be difficult to put in harsh restrictions in order to prevent this. The last time they tired to (adding a hook radius, where if the killer would be in the timer would stop), was abused by survivors. In their mind they thought, that ok technically camping is a strategy, but it is not fun, surely nobody will do it. Not realising that this strategy is by far the most effective way to play killer.
Its not entirely killer's fault though. Basing SBMM off of kills is an awful way to measure a killer's skill. Even worse is that this use to be the way they measured skill before, and they changed it due to killers doing exactly what they are doing now.
Ultimately I don't want basekit BT as there are situations where camping is needed. However it looks like this is the way DBD is doing to go because the devs have left this issue for too long, and can't come up with a proper solution. Killers who say they are quitting because they can't camp as effectively anymore, just understand you are part of the reason a to why this is needed.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939357#Comment_2939357
I'm sure what you are talking about because MoM was released on Patch 2.6.3 and wasn't until Patch 3.0.0 (the next chapter) were it got nerfed.
IIRC, I do not believe Ash was on the ptb either. I believe he was just released out live without being tested on a ptb.
Yeah I think your right, it was a long time ago. I remember it being very oppressive for about a week, before they nerfed it to how it works now.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2937715#Comment_2937715
For myself, I would still play since I don't use Exhaustion perks (I never really have). And for the no meta weekend: I would use maybe something like WGLF or We'll make it instead of my DS. The other 3 perks are strong but not meta. If IW would be turned off, I would maybe switch my main (Jeff) for that time or use something like Off the Record.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2937754#Comment_2937754
This is the intention. To see what the game would look like without certain perks. So that certain mechanics can be adjusted and changed properly. The survivor meta is so old and unchanging because these are the best perks by far. There is no reason to use Alert (a good perk) over DS or DH. For killer it's similar, just the meta is not so far away from the rest of the perks like for survivor.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2937866#Comment_2937866
This would be the time for the Devs to think about other anti-tunneling etc mechanics or penalties. I'm completely fine with tunneling or camping btw if it is needed (in the EGC for example).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2937943#Comment_2937943
That would be another option.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938103#Comment_2938103
Try to find a high end MMR match without these....
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938886#Comment_2938886
This is what I also see quite often when I play killer. People who make dumb plays and press E to get to safety....
The point is we know what would happen without these perks. Killers camp and tunnel more. Games become massively unbalanced because the survivor meta is very strong against weaker killers, but borderline mandatory against stronger ones. Survivors have been asking for changing how hooking survivors work to discourage camping for years, and it has not been changed. A lot of things in DBD exist, for certain reasons, and the game breaks without them.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939361#Comment_2939361
Well sadly the sbmmr is just like the Victory Cube. Which guaranteed a pip if the killer got 2 kills + 1 hook but was a depip if a killer got 8 hooks with no kill.
The system simply valued camping killers over more skilled killers.
Which is at least in part, why killers started camping more.
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@Tsulan said:
Camping has been a intended game mechanic from the very beginning. Nothing changed in that regard.
The only thing that changed, was how efficient survivors became with doing gens. Losing 2 or 3 gens during the first chase isn't uncommon. So the killer feels like he has to camp in order to secure 1 kill.
Just equip BT and go for the rescue or finish the last gens and get out.
Or you can say the opposite. killers have determined that camping and tunnelling is the most efficient way to secure kills, as you usually will get at least 2. Behaviour has further encouraged this by adding more perks that slow down gen speeds, without the killer needing to much, or even go near the gen. Corupt, deadlock, dead man's switch, pain resonance. As a response, survivors have needed to become more efficient on generators, as its the only way to ensure they can have the objective completed before the survivor being camped, dies.
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@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938729#Comment_2938729
But you see, MoM was actually one of the issue perks. Then it got changed to what we have now. Tackling oppresive perks first is technically the best move. I do wish that they were changed more perks for PTB, mainly easy number changes.
The Mettle of man change was done in the PTB, before the perk had even finished development. An entire week or however long the PTB was, had time dedicated to focus on the perk. They still rushed a rework. Object was only problematic in rare situations, it needed a rework anyway, because even without swf, seeing the killer's aura anyway is not a great perk.
The larger issue, is how the community tends to complain about a stale meta (especially for survivor), yet instead of the community focusing on improving the weaker perks, to at least make them viable, as community we tend to focus on the one or two perks that are too st
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@Brokenbones said:
To me the worst part about it is
It's one of the only few perks that gives survivors an edge against the stronger killers like Nurse
But in doing so it can completely cripple M1 killers. Not always, but very often. Which is just sad because M1 killers have it tough as it is
It'd not really possible to balance an entire game around killer powers that have such massive power disparity. Some people have asked for a comp and casual mode. How can you have a casual match against an experienced nurse?
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Something needed to be done a long time ago to improve how the killer objective works. The optimal way to play killer is unfun.
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@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2937922#Comment_2937922
I would argue only Up The Ante and Clairvoyance need massive changes from the list you made. Maybe Distortion if you're feeling fancy
Rest just need minor boosts, like number changes or, for technician, being a generator version of Bite the Bullet.
The point was there are perks with much bigger issues then DS/object. Its not that those perks shouldn't have been changed, but rather why focus on perks that are little oppressive yes, but at least work. Instead of perks that desperately need massive changes in order for them to be anything over then a joke. Especially mettle of man since that perk is near impossible to activate without forcing it to an extreme degree.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2937523#Comment_2937523
I reread your post that I responded to and here’s what you said
I drop the pallet, he vaults over it, breaking the pallet in the process and hitting me. Or I successfully stun him, once the stun wears off his power is fully restored and then vaults over it hitting me? What even is that? Not even bother going to talk about strength, just how is that even a power at that point? He vaults anything, breaks every pallet, and stunning him is useless.
The answer to your question is the same as what I said - “it’s a power at that point” because it works but it’s not necessarily game breaking. From your new reply you apparently don’t like being in chases against basic attack killers while injured and think “those chases aren’t interesting”? (“So at that point, I am just playing against a 115 killer with no power, except that I am injured for most the match. That is terrible”) I’m not sure why though because those chases are the same as any other chases you’d have against any basic attack killer while injured at that point.
Yes. That is exactly what I said. I hate being chased while injured.
Not the fact that his power denies survivors ability to implement game knowledge to avoid, or at least minimise the chance of being hit. Then once hit, his power then applies a passive slowdown which forces survivors to waste time because his power would be extremely weak without it due to its terrible design. Then once injured you have to make a choice to either waste time healing knowing that your are likely going to be injured again, thus wasting a significant amount of time. Or you play the game injured, cutting a chase in half, because you only have one health state, and stealth based builds don't work because of your grunts of pain and blood trail. Then you add the fact that most legion's will run sloppy butcher, to drag out the healing even longer or thanaphobia, so if t you choose to not heal, the legion gets even more passive slowdown. All of this combined with the fact that he does not have a power during the actual chase, making him one of the most uninteresting killers in dbd objectively. All of which drags matches out long past the point that they should have ended, not because the match was close necessarily. But because the killer was just running across the map , going from person to person, hitting them forcing them to heal every minute. All of a sudden a 7 minute match, is now a 15 minute match, and the killer only got 4 hooks. What worse is unlike killers with unique abilities, his is just base M1, which is objectively uninteresting.
You also say that its the same as any base M1 killer while injured.
No, take scream. yes while in a chase his just an M1 killer. However, when I'm not in a chase I have to be careful to avoid being taken out before the chase even starts. This is at least interesting. Something that separates him from others. I'm sure you are going to say, what about plague? or the twins? Technically their power is unavoidable and is just a base M1 killer. Correct, and guess what, they are both unpopular killers to play against. The twins especially, due to victor being oppressive, even once injured.
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Recharge: Each time the survivor stuns the killer they grant a token Every 6/5/4 stuns, recharge activates. At any point the survivor can activate the active ability button to automatically recover their exhaustion status. Once used, the survivor consumes all totems.
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Behaviour prioritizes community reaction over what is logical. I don't oppose to the object rework nor the DS, but the fact they prioritised that over.
Mettle of man: which is extremely difficult to activate, especially since protection hits are extremely janky, unless you are hit by a killer carrying a survivor.
De ja vu, which is just a joke
Up the ante, which really needs a complete rework or buff
Technician, which needs a change as its weirdly designed for new players, yet punishes them harder for missing skillchecks
Distortion, which needs a buff
Fixated, which does very little
Desperate measures, its terrible
Clairvoyance, which is just useless
There are plenty of other perks that need minor changes, but these perks and possibly others need massive changes for survivors to even consider running these perks in anything other then a joke build. They changed object and DS, because they were knee jerk reactions, to mass complaining. They did the same thing to keys. Nerf keys, ok, now what do they do. They open hatch if killer closes it. Just like that keys are rarely used. I wish they followed an actual plan, instead of making the rushed reaction to DS and Object, neither which I was happy with their rework.
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How it was tied into the lore itself is fine. It adds an extra dynamic to a character and this can be good thing. Similarly the inclusion of LGBTQ+ characters helps find people who players can identify with, and that's what you want then that's fine.
However, the issue with David King is this. Firstly why didn't they do this with say Mikaela Reid? I don't believe she has a tone yet, or even whenever the next chapter after the Oringo? David feels like the worst pick because he is both a character who has been around for a long time, and had already been implied to be heterosexual. Lets be honest it was a deliberate choice. The new characters tend to be forgotten due to the now oversaturated amount of characters. David is popular and recognisable. As I stated the lore itself is not an issue, and the fact that he had female relationships in the past is fine, as many people go through a similar journey. However everything about the situation feels deliberate, and calculated. I saw somebody comment something a while ago, that the only reason behaviour sent out the tweet, was to thank gaymerX for the help with I believe David's backstory. But let's be real, behaviour is not stupid, they don't tweet out things without thinking about the repercussions. They wanted people talking about this because its good publicity. Its interesting that as many people have pointed out, behaviour originally wanted to take a neutral stance on this for many years. Then fairly recently with SBMM, the player base started having massive amounts of drops in players. It is completely coincidental that they changed their stance, and drew mass publicity through this.
I am not a conspiracy theorist, and it may be entirely by chance. However the person, they picked, the timing, the fact they drew attention through social media. If this was all by chance somebody really needs to go to behaviour and legitimately asked what they are doing, because how could it not feel forced.
Ultimately I am happy that players feel like somebody represents them, and I hope behaviour does not change their stance on David King. I just wish that in future, Behaviour and anyone else trying to increase representation thinks about how they do it, because it does matter.