HoodedWildKard
HoodedWildKard
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As someone who spams the RB button 10+ times on approach to a vault in an intense chase I wholeheartedly support this post.
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Demo is fine. Don't be mean to my boi.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416896#Comment_3416896
I think his pallet break is little bit too slow. that is only thing I'd change. Just slightly faster pallet break speed on shred would be nice touch for him. nothing more.
You could just run barbs glasses, speeds up his pallet break.
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Demo is fine as is. Imo one of the most balanced killers in the game, I demolish teams with him but he requires very smart plays to use effectively.
As surv I love playing against a demo, it's an interesting game with a lot of mindgaming and tactical plays.
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@Ghoste said:
I feel like this is true for most PvP games tbh, especially if the game has been out for awhile. Like if you try to jump into Call of Duty or something, you're gonna get absolutely steamrolled as a new player.
a way to train against killer bots so survs can see how dlc killer powers work without buying them
The devs said they are working on Killer bots, just so you know.
Didn't know about killer bots so good to know. And yeah nobody can be good at the game straight away. But dbd is kind of all or nothing, on CoD you may go negative, but will still win matches because your team was good, and you'd still get a few kills unless you are really genuinely dirt poor at the game. But in dbd losing feels very different, gens don't get finished, and maybe 3-5mins in the game is obviously a loss and you can't really so anything about it, everybody gets hooked and you're powerless to stop it, maybe one player gets hatch. Which isn't a bad thing on it's own, it's a horror game, some situations should feel oppressive and hopeless. But to have that, 10-15 matches in a row? Not a pleasant or enjoyable experience.
For a new player not being able to run chase, arguably the hardest skillset in dbd to learn, means that new survs get downed quickly and often get tunneled out by convenience. They don't get chance to hone skills. A punishing experience turns them away from the game and as a result the new player retention is very minimal. Ive introduced multiple people to the game and they have all without exception stopped playing it a month or two in because they don't find it enjoyable.
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@Ghoste said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416381#Comment_3416381
Voice chat is not a good idea. Most people would just use it to flame their teammates. Plus, I don't wanna deal with people blasting music or sandbagging me because I chose to opt-out of voice chat. It would also invalidate a slew of perks like Kindred, Bond, etc. and they'd all need to be reworked. We're too far into the game's life cycle to add a major feature like this.
I kinda like the rolling handicap idea though.
Idk the toxicity argument always seem like a weak one. Yeah it will always happen online gaming being what it is. But asymmetric multiplayer is usually more chill, when i used to play evolve ppl on chat were generally ok. Because it's 4 players working together, of course you'll get the odd one who just switches on to put ppl pn blast for leaving them on hook, but then maybe the vc means they would work out no one is going for hook and actually get them off. Plus mute buttons are quick and easy to use. Endgame chat is far more toxic than vc would ever be so I don't know why we have that.
And vc does not invalidate aura read perks, making accurate call outs on dbd maps is extremely difficult except for around major landmarks like shack and main building, or the occasional unique feature like the carnival area on chapel
Even playing with my swf I still often run empathy to help me find injured team mates.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416627#Comment_3416627
That is not how this game is asymmetrical.
The Killer has a Power and base stats/information advantage that are greater than a Survivors base stats.
Assuming equal skill, the Killer will always win in a 1v1 (though Survivor skill and map resources will augment how long that takes).
Survivors are given goals to accomplish that allow them to remove themselves from a losing situation, exit gates and hatch.
Given Survivors will always lose the 1v1 eventually, during which they are unable to work on those goals, it becomes necessary for other Survivors to work on those goals while the Killer is preoccupied in their 1v1 (or searching for a 1v1).
With the current state of the game, Gen Repair, Chase, Hooked, Rescuer are the four roles in DBD’s gameplay loop for Survivor.
When one Survivor dies, one of those roles is removed from consistency, and in equally skilled play that is usually Gen Repair.
The thing is, the gameplay loop doesn’t change to accommodate that currently, which I believe to be an oversight given the ease of tunneling out a Survivor.
You can either setup guardrails to preserve how long it takes to get to a 3-survivor cycle (by introducing more and more anti-tunnel measures), or you can focus on creating dynamic gameplay around Survivors being Sacrificed.
I prefer the latter given that the game is a Slasher, and not all Survivors should “make it out alive”.
But that doesn’t mean that a Player being Sacrificed should remove them from gameplay, and I think Hatch can play a role here with Sacrificed Survivors.
I’m also of the opinion that 0K and 4K 12 Hook games should be edge-cases. But am aware that a non-4K game as Killer doesn’t feel quite as “rewarding” at the moment.
See my issue with the game is that 4ks seem to be the norm. Killers will absolutely sweat for 4ks everytime. Personally i tend to let one or often two survs escape. I get every body to 2 hooks, kill 2 survs (not always necessarily in that order lol) and then allow the last 2 to finish gens or last one to find hatch.
I still get the challenge of outskilling other players and lose a minimal amount of bp. The survs get a bunch more bp and a free escape which makes a change from dying constantly. I'll usually only play merciless against a coordinated team, and even then as long as they dont BM i usually let someone get hatch.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416339#Comment_3416339
More tutorials with different killer bots wouldn't be a bad thing, but they wouldn't be mandatory, and it would still be impractical to presume every new player will have played them all. Good option for those who want to use them though.
You haven't really explained what 'rolling handicaps' are.
Built in voice chat is a whole other topic with significant issues and implications for the game. It's fine the way it is as an 'opt in' system. Those who want to use it and are playing with friends can do so, and those who want to go it alone and persevere don't have to be pressured into using it.
So rolling handicaps is something I made a thread on a while ago. Basically the idea is game balance shifts as thevgame progresses. Tracking hook stages, gen progress and survivors alive as the metrics. If game is in surv's favour then gen repair speeds slow down and killer gain movement speed and maybe action speed buff, if game is in killer's favour then gen repair speeds increase and killer's move speed is nerfed a little. Properly balanced it could make the game a lot more enjoyable since most games are absolute landslides and it'd help mitigate that.
Universal vc would be better imo, it's not so much an opt in as a you need to log into discord and make a channel. Basekit vc would be utilised by a lot of players and be very useful for lower mmr teams to have some degree of coordination.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416324#Comment_3416324
Due to the asymmetrical format, if you were to rectify this by making survivor 'easier' for newbies, you would inadvertently make killer harder for higher levels of skill. The small advantage offered to inexperienced and uncoordinated survivors, would be utterly devastating in the hands of experienced coordinated survivor teams. What the killer makes up for in experience, survivors make up for multiplied by four.
This is why I've made the suggestions at the bottom of my post, if you'd cared to read that far. Vc wouldn't benefit survs because the alteady have it, rolling handicaps would actively nerf swf a bit while helping new/solo q survs and improving endgame for lone survs wouldn't benefit swfs because they never reach that point.
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@Seraphor said:
Without forcing new players to grind through hours of tutorial games, I'm not sure there is any other way to make it more welcoming. The very format of the game being an asymmetrical PVP game, means that you have the 'power' side for the killer, and the 'numbers' side for the survivors. The thing that gives the 'numbers' side their advantage, is coordination, something that only comes from experience, meanwhile the 'power' is always there from the start for the killer.
The best thing new players can do, is play killer. This gives you the initial advantage against the players you should be being matched with initially, and moreover, it will give you the experience you will ultimately need to play survivor at a higher level. Playing killer makes you a better survivor and vice versa, so you're getting that 'head start' on survivor by playing some killer first.
Other than that, it's mindset. You need to be able to accept a loss graciously (evidently easier said than done because very few players can do this). You're ultimately playing a horror game, where you can play as a weak human survivor, against supernatural killing machines. You're going to die, a lot, so get used to it. You wouldn't go into a Souls game expecting to win first time, the learning curve for DBD is kinda the same, you need that experience to get to a point where you can realistically 'compete'.
That said, I do think new players could do with some sort of 'incentive', to soften the blow and ease the initial grind a little. It's pretty rough when you have no perks to play with, and because you're losing a lot you're not gaining much BP to be able to afford to unlock more perks. A newcomer bonus of +100% BP for the first 30 hours of play or something would be pretty neat.
See i can accept losses. I'm not expecting to escape games all the time. But going on 10+ death streaks is nothing unusual and that just isnt fun. Souls like games are designed for people who like an experience akin to repeatedly bashing their heads against a brick wall. Multiplayer games are not meant to be like that. It's not a pleasant experience. Like one escape in 5 matches would be fine but game balance and mmr doesn't work that way unless you have a dedicated swf with all good players. Just like I find constantly winning as killer extremely dull.
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I hope it doesn't come back. Terrible Idea.
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Tbh as killer I find SB far more annoying than DH. I can't counter SB, where as dh i countered like 70% of the time.
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@jamally093 said:
I have seen countless matches where the killer suddenly becomes nice because a survivor put down their item that they probably have twenty more of on that character? I don't get it I really don't if a survivor drops an item while I'm playing killer I just down and hook them they lose the item either way so what's the point of giving them hatch? If I want to give someone hatch it's under certain requirements mainly if they've been sandbagged by their teammates other then that no. So I don't get it why are you suddenly nice to a survivor who placed their item on the ground when they probably can easily get one back maybe even two from the bloodweb.
As killer i find it hard to resist this 🤣 It's like a sign of respect to the killer, and a plea for mercy. I'll very rarely kill a surv if they offer me a present.
Shame it doesn't work much for me when I play surv lol.
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@Lost_Boy said:
I've barely encountered any toxic post game chats on PC. Every now and again I get a salty survivor that moans about some imaginary excuse for getting outplayed, but overall I've had a pretty positive experience on PC since I started about 6 months ago.
Now I played on Xbox for like 2 years prior to this a can't say the same for console players. They're literally the dregs of society. The amount of abuse you get in private messages is pretty disgusting. That's probably the reason console players aren't allowed end game chat. Not sure what PlayStation players are like, but Xbox survivors are pathetic.
Cant say I've had the same experience on xbox. I usually gg in DMs at the end of every match and I have the odd salty survivor but most of the time ppl gg amd move on or have a nice chat.
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Hexes are hit and miss. I won't use them if I want to do well consistently.
I justbuse them for meme builds like when I'm mucking about with my deathslinger hex meme build.
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Corrupt intervention is a good shout to getvearly pressure. And DMS is one that's slept on a lot, as well as stopping ppl jumping back on gens. It also highlights to you what gens are being worked. Plus it synergises well with hands off regression stuff like eruption, pain res, jolt. Even tried it with oppression and it was kinda good.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3413071#Comment_3413071
"The mmr split is pretty wide in this game. High mmr the sweaty survivor swfs rule and killer is always playing catch up. But at low mmr, for killers it is such a cakewalk."
If you mean : persons playing the very strong killers win easily at mid MMR then sure. If you mean the "meh" killers win easily in Mid MMR then I'm going to say no.
This is one of the things I would love to blast Otz with; he says well when survivors have the very best vs Blight and Nurse it's equal. Well that's fine but the difference between Blight and Nurse is extreme. What would make playing Trapper be on the same playing field? Maybe it would approach equality if every survivor had to bring No Mither.
"I'd love to see a way to help low mmr survs without it benefitting high mmr swfs"
That would be perfectly fine.
I would also love to see real changes to the game so that the broken/weak killers can play "fine" against 4 man SWF bully squads. This of course is no easy task because in order for weak killers to be viable they need:
- Movement speed as either a power or base speed increase. Without movement speed you suffer from the "shift w" problem. Would Trapper be scary with 120% speed Base? The answer is probably no but it would make him "suck less"
- Strong Anti Loop. Every killer needs this as part of their kit.
- 4v1 potential like Pig, Pinhead, and Nemesis enjoy OR the same kind of 4v1 that Blight and Nurse have because they end chases so fast that there is almost no downtime between chases.
- Chase Lethality is necessary for every killer in the game. The moment the survivors do not care about being chased is the clear notification that the killer(s) in question need massive buffs.
You either need to do everything in this list OR you need to do a complete map redesign scheme. Imagine for a moment that we keep all the maps we have and make 9000m² versions for all killers who are NOT Nurse/Blight. That's right we make a new smaller version of all the maps with fewer vaults/pallets with everything closer together. Then we prevent Nure/Blight from playing on these maps and maybe we make the maps we have even bigger b/c they will only be played by the "broken" killers. All the generators on the new maps are closer so that we have multiple possible locations per map for 3 gens.
God pallet count per each map will be 1 or fewer. /gasp.
If you mean the mechanically "meh" killers I really don't agree, not based on what I've seen playing as and against those killers. Trapper for example, could certainly do with a buff: my personal suggestion would be a stacking debuff every time a surv disables a trap, that causes traps to become more and more transparent to that surv and after 2 or 3 traps they vecome invisible and survivor can't interact with them, all stacks removed once surv steps in a trap. But I digress.
I play trapper a fair bit and I still perform pretty well with him. I use a pretty specific build to slowdown at start, corrupt intervention, and for info on where to put traps. Zanshin. Then i turn one largeish area of the map, usually covering 4-5 gens in a patrol route, into a mine field of trapped pallets, vaults and if applicable, doorways. Then I herd survs in chase towards these danger zones. With this build I've beaten pretty decent teams.
The only meh killers who perform badly at mid mmr are the meh players. As surv in pubby games I've have come up against:pigs, slingers, doctors, freddys, skull merchants etc who have stomped us. Because we have no communication and killer has played their killer well. I've led individual killers on crazy long chases and seen no gens pop. The average skill level of survivors (including at mid mmr) is pretty poor, and that needs addressing.
Buffs to mechanically weaker killers awould be nice, trapper, pig, freddy, twins in particular maybe sadako but I'm not convinced on that one. But sweeping killer buffs will just make it worse. Weak killers need specific buffs to their base kit not their base stats. And they certainly can still perform well if used effectively.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3412598#Comment_3412598
-"Old eruption would absolutely destroy solo q teams because there was no way to reliably avoid it except to just not work the gen at all which would lose more progress in the long run."
And DH still is very strong while Eruption is very "meh". The nerf DH needed was no sprint burst but you get endurance.
-"You can't base perk balance just on the performance at high levels of play."
That's not fair when most of the killer perks they implement are severely limited b/c Nurse and Blight are awesome with no perks.
Balance needs to look at low level/mid level/high level. Some games have different rules for each tier.
Most of the maps are not fair to most of the killers because they are just too big.
Otz has a video where he looks at Nurse and Blight vs super strong survivors and determins the game is "fine" b/c Nurse and Blight exist. Excuse me but where's the world's best doctor to compete with the #1 survivor team? There's actually no need to play that game out b/c we know what happens : Doctor gets owned.
Most of the killer cast gets Destroyed by 4 man SWFs running best items.
I will remind you that SWFs have an escape rate that is in some cases 15% higher. Amd we just give SWF a blind eye because changing it in any way to make it fair would be "less fun for survivor".
You can't have the downhill street both ways for survivor if you want the game to be fair.
This is the thing. I'm not saying to nerf killer and buff survivor in general. The mmr split is pretty wide in this game. High mmr the sweaty survivor swfs rule and killer is always playing catch up. But at low mmr, for killers it is such a cakewalk.
I'd love to see a way to help low mmr survs without it benefitting high mmr swfs. I have suggested detailed ways of doing that before, VC, rolling handicaps, an actually decent tutorial etc. But all we've seen has been the player action icons, handy but it doesn't really fix how garbage solo q is.
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@Hex_Llama said:
I think everyone agrees that the normal experience in solo queue is losing, but I think how much that bothers you depends on your expectations. I've never entered a survivor match with the expectation that I'm going to win, because my only experience with it is solo q and losing. So, that feels normal to me and, if I manage to escape, it's a pleasant surprise.
I try to maintain that attitude towards it but death after death after death just gets super frustrating. Like I'd be happy with one in 5.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3412513#Comment_3412513
I have to disagree sorry - those perks were fine but it was Knight/SM who needed a proper rework.
Those perks did too much with their kit. CHange their kit not nuke the perks so most killers cant even run regression anymore.
Then we'll have to agree to disagree. Old eruption would absolutely destroy solo q teams because there was no way to reliably avoid it except to just not work the gen at all which would lose more progress in the long run. And pain res was so spammable, plus it's synergy worh DMS made it pretty much the same as eruption just more avoidable. Inused to use pain res a lot on my sweaty builds and it really carried games.
You can't base perk balance just on the performance at high levels of play. A good swf with VC could counter them reasonably easily. But teams with less co-ordination (i.e. most of them) would get crippled by these perks.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3410507#Comment_3410507
-"Can't just nerf everything that frustrates killer mains."
But the reverse is obviously true; anything that annoys survivor mains on a long enough time line gets obliterated (not nerfed).
See : NOED, Spirit, Billy, Pop, Every Gen Regression perk, etc.
Tbh most of those regression perks needed to be toned down. Not nuked from orbit like bhvr has done but things like eruption and pain res could carry games on their own. And the CoB overcharge combo was way too strong.
There is a big difference between annoying and oppresive. SB and lithe give survs a much needed tool in chase, a one shot to use in each chase to gain distance and extend the chase. The old regression meta made it nearly impossible to finish gens if killer had half a brain. As for the killer specific nerf idk what state they were in before, but spirit is still strong. Dread to think what she was like beforehand.
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Wouldn't day it's that bad. Not like the free kills that mediocre killers get running NOED
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411391#Comment_3411391
what if i said i have to worst time when there's a survivor that spams shadow step in badham main, or ironworks main?
That would tell me you rely on scratch marks too much. Since CoH nerf boons in general suck. Shadow step is probably the most viable but still isn't amazing.
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9 out of 10 is not believable. Sounds like exaggeration.
I do agree cheaters are a problem and should be punished severely but I've seen maybe 3 in all my time playing. About 30 days play time.
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@KenwanObinobi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3410510#Comment_3410510
Why do you guys always talk about skill ?
There is nothing about skill in the game unless you play nurse.
When gens are done in 4 minutes and you still have perks to heal in 8 seconds, skill is not involved.
When you have 20 pallets on a map that you can predrop, not even looping, just predrop them and it gives you a 1 minute chase for free, skill is not involved...
There are not many good loopers but the tools they have are more than enough for them to survive way longer than they should.
If you want to talk about skill, let's change the map to force the survivors to use mindgame and to 360 to avoid 50% of the hits.
That game is not made for competitiveness and should not have a MMR. The experience for me has decreased in quality since the MMR release, with the rank, my games were way more balanced, on both sides.
We talk about skill becuase it is relevant to these discussions about balance. Idk where you seem to have this idea that playing surv is easy and requires no skill but you are dead wrong about that.
Staying alive in chase for long enough to make a difference is difficult. If a normal heal is 16 seconds, then to run to unhook someone, get to a safe place and heal takes 45 secs. If you're running a killer in chase you have to keep them going that long and then more on top to get gen progress.
Takes good teamwork, coordinatiom and individual skill to achieve that. And 80% of the survs on dbd can't do that very well.
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Maybe find a way to retain new players. The survivor experience pushes a LOT of new players away. I've tried to get many friends into dbd, either they refuse to even try it because it has a reputation for being a nightmare for new players, or they play a while and get frustrated because they die constantly as survivor.
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Meyers is weak af. He's the literal definition of an m1 killer. And there's other killers that can stealth, namely ghostface.
He's kinda all or nothing tho for every easy meyers escape I get there's anotherbgame where I get instamorid 4 minutes in. Not a fun killer in general
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@mustdogen said:
Title.
I am not even sad or angry.
Just curious.
Why survivors are so unnerfable?
Like....they seems can't afford any kind of tiny nerf.
They literally act like BE killing the survivor's experience totally by just a such little nerf and with the Same time the killer's meta perk being nerfed the fourth or fifth time.
Just.....how?
I mean when is the last time survivor got nerf before this patch?
6.1.0?
We are already in the 6.7.0 now.
Survivor got the first nerf in 7 patchs and they can act that BE is a killer main.
Just WOW.
Because survivor nerfs affect all mmr levels.
And survs are already the weaker role. The skill curve for survivors is pretty mental and running chase is extremely difficult. Not every survivor is a looping god. In fact the vast majority of them are pretty bad.
Sure when you are up against someone with 100+days play time catching them can feel like trying to hold water. But at lower/mid mmr chases can and often do end in seconds. Plus it's hard to abuse chase skills when you're dealing with hook camping and tunneling.
Survivor is in a good place rn, the issue is killers who skyrocket their mmr and then can't deal with the skill gap they've created.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409477#Comment_3409477
-"Many of my early escapes were more down to my stealth versus my lacklustre ability to run a killer on chase."
This may come as a surprise but there was a time that stealth was stronger than good chase skills. Do you remember when Shelter woods had a 76% kill rate?
Also if people wanted to be stealthy they would never appear "on radar" without an exhaustion perk.
Also it would make sense if killer addons that inflicted exhaustion prevented you from seeing the survivor (because catch 22 mechanics are stupid).
Well I started playing august last year so no never saw the early state of the game.
Even without killer inflicted exhaustion revealing you (that'd be a nightmare to differentiate when coding) it would still shaft newer players and punish them hard for using what are really essential perks for survs to run.
Just because high mmr survs use something effectively doesn't mean we need to nerf it all around. There's more to think about when you balance a game. Can't just nerf everything that frustrates killer mains.
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Brine was awful and pain res was the spammiest damn regression perk. Made games too easy.
Brine needed either the regression to be toned down or to not reveal when the gen was fixed again. Both was incredibly oppressive.
Pain res was just straight stupid. And I say this as someone who play killer as well as surv. I used to run it and it made games way too easy.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3408283#Comment_3408283
-"but constant aura read on an exhausted surv would be absolutely cracked."
Remember for a minute that survivors want to be chased. A perk like that might sound horrible but it would encourage people to be chased.
I'd say sure 10 seconds of vision for Nurse/Blight but everyone else would be fine with if you are exhausted then you are visible (with an exception list - Oni for example would only get 10 seconds if in his power, same for MM, etc.)
Lets also remember that not every surv wants to be chased. Newer/midlevel surv players rely on stealth a lot. Many of my early escapes were more down to my stealth versus my lacklustre ability to run a killer on chase.
Players who want to be chased have an easy time getting up in killer's face and provoking them into chase. Aura reads while exhausted would suck. Admittedly I'd be all for a permanent aura read if you've made a successful DH. And aura reads on anyone exhausted would make fearmonger a really good info perk. But it would most punish the weaker survs who already have a bad time of it. Whilst not really doing anything to experienced survs since they can run good chases regardless.
People need to remember, just because they see high mmr survs when they play killer. Doesn't mean the whole game is like that. Ran a few solo q surv games last night to clear a challenge or two. 5 deaths and 1 survival. Five 4k games and a 2k game. Feels balanced man.
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Yh I've always thought no mither should make the surv completely silent. And award a bloodpoint bonus too. It's such an insanely stupid perk.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3407735#Comment_3407735
No the issue has always been that a perk like Sprint Burst saves you a moment against a nurse. You force one blink to miss and then she blinks twice and is right on you again. In most situations you are better off having Sprint Burst vs not against a nurse as the perk will give you a little bit more time in any situation.
But what does it do against a Huntress? If she doesn't know you have it and maybe swings you can use that exhaustion perk to get to an obstacle where it becomes not worth the time to chase you. That's really not fair (yes this is a map design issue as well but we can focus on the exhaustion problem).
The problem with DH is that it almost always saves TONS of time for your team no matter what killer you play.
As I said before : exhaustion would be fine if there was a counter perk that penalized a team of survivors while they were exhausted. As an example : the killer has a perk maybe called despair that reveals your aura to the killer if you are exhausted. Don't want to be seen? Don't run an exhaustion perk.
"Almost always" hardly. And it benefits only IF you can trigger it successfully which is easier said than done. not the guaranteed trigger people keep saying it is. And it isn't like killers can't hard counter DH, legion, deathslinger, trapper. These are just the ones that have hard counters to DH in their basekit.
Any addon/perk that causes exhaustion can nix a potential DH play. The only time you can make it a guaranteed trigger is at a pallet. And even then killer can hold back and all you've done is gained the time you would from a pallet. In any other situation DH is counterable by simply not swing at the first available instant. It's a mind game, just requires skill to counter.
It's punishing if you swing into it for sure. But it's definitely avoidable and counterable whether you use straight up mechanical counters or simply skilled gameplay.
P.s. the perk idea sounds kinda interesting, but constant aura read on an exhausted surv would be absolutely cracked. Perhaps a 5 sec aura read when surv becomes exhausted.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3407022#Comment_3407022
Exhaustion perks are fine vs Nurse and Blight but they have always been quite punishing to the killers like Trapper and Wraith who are completely turned off when a survivor drops a pallet in chase.
When you say "fine" against nurse and blight you mean "useless". Distance doesn't really matter against those killers. This is kind of my point. Killer mains are fine with perks that do not work well against them. But the second there is a perk that directly counters their power/build they are up in arms and it's apparently unfair.
Some killers have DH counter in their base kit, some don't.
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@KenwanObinobi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3407006#Comment_3407006
Yes i agree but it is also one of the worst map if you get tunneled, there is no way out of it.
Not impossible. Managed it myself once against a wraith who seemed determined to kill me. Managed to run/occupy him while he face camped me long enough to get 4 gens done, one flahbang save and a double bodyblock later I gave him the slip and managed to hide near exit gate and escape.
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@Volcz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3407022#Comment_3407022
This. Its very clearly a 'this is frustrating for killers' rather than 'is this actually unbalanced'.
Temper tantrums, emotions & ego. There's only a handful of people on this forum I'd say that are actually able to take a neutral stance and analyze things from both sides.
Good players who main killer and were winning 90% or more of their matches aren't the ones flocking to the forums/reddit to cry or rant about a perk they deem OP. The not-so-good ones that have inflated egos do that.
This is the issue. Most players on here are so tribal for one side or other. I play both rolls and try to be objective. I suggest things that I feel would be truly balanced for both roles.
I often wonder how many DH hating killer mains have actually tried to use dead hard in game as a survivor. I always see the "guaranteed 3rd health state" line thrown around a lot and DH is not that, not by a long shot.
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@Jos_724 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/372332/early-hook-suicides-should-be-reportable
No they absolutely should not. When someone makes the decision to leave the game on first hook, it's because they have revoked their consent to play this match for any number of reasons. It's the same old argument re: dc's people will always REFUSE to play against certain killers, and certain play styles! And fun is relative on all sides and for all people.
And that gives people the right to ruin 4 other people's fun just because they want to throw their toys out of the pram?
No.
DCs carry a matchmaking ban for a reason. If we had backfilling, even just bots, I couldn't care less. But every early surv DC ruins a game. And every killer DC, which thankfully are much rarer, ends the game instantly.
It's a very childish trait. "Waaah I don't like this killer/perk/map/the fact I messed up one chase, I'm going to throw a tantrumn and quit) players like this should be given some chances but eventually pushed out of the game. And I mean people who do it on the regular. People lose their temper sometimes and the odd ragequit isn't the end of the world. Or real life concerns happen and force a player to leave the game to deal with things, fine whatever. But when a player frequently suicides on hook everytime something goes wrong it ruins the experience for a lot of other players.
I'm all for having individual opt out options to avoid certain killers like plague and clown due to genuine phobias or health concerns. But just disliking a killers playstyle? Suck it up, every game can't always go your way, and how are you going to learn to counter that build or killer unless you practice against them?
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Remember once vaulted into the top room of dead dawg saloon in chase only to find both doorways were breakable walls. Killer vaulted in, look at both doors and nodded. Let me vault out again before resuming chase lol
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Ah copyright issues. And it's kinda difficult to just make a new killer With exactly the same mechanics. Werewolf doesn't fit a portal/tunneling mechanic.
Although the idea of a giant humanoid tunneling naked mole rat is an unnerving one.
Lot of effort for bhvr to just rerelease a less cool version of an existing killer, they won't bother.
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You mean killers will always complain about exhaustion perks. Just whatever causes them the most frustration in a game rather than if it's actually unbalanced or not.
Survs need something that helps in chase. And exhaustion perks are always going to be used. Wouldn't be much of a game otherwise.
If all exhaustion perks get nerfed into oblivion then killers would complain about genrush and stealth builds.
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I mean I've finished the rpd escape achievement.
It's a good map to run a killer for a while on chase. Lots of strong loops, pallets and good vaults.
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@foodie said:
If someone doesn't want to be in a match, they need to have an option to leave without getting banned over it. If your match is ruined because someone gave up, move on.
Giving up is part of the game mechanic. You got chased, you lost, you're hooked. If you don't want a second chance, you die and move on.
If I'm trying to give up and move on, I will be more annoyed if someone tried to save me. It's wasting my time and, from my point of view, holding the game hostage. Don't expect someone to cooperate when you forced them to stay in a match they wanted to leave.
This is what multiplayer games are. There are people who will not be having fun and will want to leave. It's not their responsibility to ensure your fun experience, nor do they owe you a fun match. You're just a random person to everyone else in the match, and they don't care about you or your feelings. They play to have fun and if they're not having fun they surrender and leave.
If that is a huge issue for you, then play killer or a co-op game.
I usually play swf. But recently, since my swf buddies have got fed up of dbd, I've had to tolerate randoms. And so many just have a ragequit tantrumn on their first down.
Midgame I'm not fussed, by then it's clear who's going to win and if killer is snowballing I understand hook suiciding. Game is definitely lost, might as well get onto the next one, have done it myself once or twice.
But to do it first thing just because killer has a certain perk or you got downed is just pathetic. Example: yesterday saw a dwight suicide on hook. He was first downed and had looped the killer long enough for us to get 2 gens done by the time he got put on hook. We ended up 4Kd at 1 gen left. If that dwight hadn't killed himself and actually played the game we would've won easy. Like what's the ######### point? Does he DC everytime he gets downed?
If people are going to DC 2 minutes in then they shouldn't bother loading up the game in the first place.
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@durag_demon1 said:
I find it funny people are complaining about this.. if people want to leave the game they should have the option.
If we had bot backfilling maybe I'd agree. But a player ragequitting is guarenteed to ruin the game for survs. And deprives killers of challenges and adepts.
There is a reason DCing carries a ban.
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@IWasLrft2Die said:
I'm all for being able to leave but there should be a solution that doesn't screw your team over like it does (add bots? Add BP bonuses? Etc?)
I've suggested bot backfilling a couple of times. Tbh bots play better than most solo q pubs.
Then I couldn't give a monkeys if somebody wanted to ragequit.
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@Hex_TunnelBait said:
I've said this before in the similar thread yesterday, but I'm 100% down for removing hook suicide as a mechanic so long as survivors are given more information in the pre-game lobby regarding what killer they're about to go in against. This game has too many design elements specific to one killer, such as Plague's vomit (which some people consider triggering) or Clown's screen distortion (which can cause motion sickness). I personally cannot play against Clown without getting sick and getting headaches, and there should be a method in-game for me to be able to leave that match without getting locked out of the queue since I wasn't given the information necessary to leave the lobby before the match started.
I'm all for being able to disable certain killers. Especially for phobias. Coulraphobia and emetophobia.
Giving info on exactly what killer it is is too OP tho. Way to easy for bully swfs or even just normal players to change their builds pregame.
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@MichitaRoyal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3404001#Comment_3404001
Thanks, I've got no friends in this game but my steam name is edeneclipse, I'll add your discord if you post.
I'll add you next time I pop on discord
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Get rid of depipping for sure. No need for it. DC penalty needs to stay though, the amount of ragequits is insane whenever dc penalty is turned off.
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@supersonic853 said:
i love it lol. I woulda taken it gone but making it basically non existant isnt to bad either.
I was today years old when I learned that the chainsaw show visual signs of overheating. That's so cool 😃
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@Phasmamain said:
BHVR just because you nerfed COB and Overcharge doesn’t mean you can ignore 3 gens completely. This with jolt and eruption is probably miserable to fight
Oh I didn't think anybody still used eruption lol.
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Solo q is always gonna he like that. But are you sure you aren't negatively reinforcing it? I'm sure you don't get ignored for heals every single game.
Best solution is play swf tbh, my friends heal me because I verbally abuse them if they don't 🙃