GrimReaperJr1232
GrimReaperJr1232
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Bad very, very bad. I'm used to bad framerates on this game (especially on maps like Ormond) but now, every map is a slideshow. I get drops during the panning sequence now. It's pretty much unplayable atm.
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I think the reason they got rid of the charge time add-ons is that Billy was notorious for his insta-saw, and believe it not, Bubba's rev time is even faster than Billy's (2.0 secs compared to 2.5 secs). So I don't see them adding in any charge time add-ons again. If they do, it'll be a give or take like with what you suggested as a change for the rake.
I don't know what they were thinking with the Engravings (what i call Beast Marks/Knife Scratches for simplicity). Their benefit is so marginal that you're better off running a chili instead—if they wanted to keep the downside, they could at least buff the numbers slightly to maybe 5% and 8%.
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Legion's mend is 12 seconds... solo. It's actually 8 seconds if another person mends you. Touching the mend time isn't the best idea.
While I support giving Legion collision, his 4 second cooldown is absolutely brutal and destroys any way you can capitalize on the body block in most cases.
I like the Frank's mixtape change, although I can't say the same about Stab wounds. Nifty idea, but I don't think it'd really do much. I mean, it's still a 30 second timer. It has very little pressure.
Fuming Mixtape is pretty cool. A bit circumstantial but cool.
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@SpeculumVeritatis said:
Let me clarify:
I don't play with comms. My friends don't play with comms (unless we're just doing a custom game for fun). A lot of the DBD streamers I watch who play survivor don't use comms. Lots of other players do solo queue and aren't on comms.
Also, even if the survivors know the killer is disguised, a killer with the ability to turn off your heartbeat and headlight for 30 seconds to sneak up on a survivor, with an instadown after decloaking, would probably be a welcome addition to the toolbox of killer mains.
A killer who can insta-down and disable with red-strain/TR? Ghosty does that.
I'm not trying to be rude. It's just that a killer whose power revolves around disguising themselves simply won't work.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
Little man syndrome mostly. They have a few seconds of power to rub it in your face, but it is just a few seconds, and it relies solely on getting a response. Not responding takes that power away and returns it to you, whilst they wonder why they weren't important enough to get a response.
The rudeness only hurts you, and no matter what you say back, it will just make it worse. Best to not respond and look towards your next match.
Console player. I physically can't respond
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It won't work.
There is no amount of buffs or nerf that will make this concept work. The idea of a disguising killer will not work.
Why? Simple, unlike me, people do the smart thing and play with friends.
"hey, it's X killer! Split up!"
"is that you by the crane? No? Okay, I'll stay away from this guy then."
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@Trwth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685230#Comment_1685230
Yeah, I’m just disappointed and a little frustrated for that exact reason. Cool concept; hard to balance.
I'm always open to sharing ideas, mate, especially those concerning my main. <3
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@Trwth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1684762#Comment_1684762
I guess it's back to the drawing board again. Everyone seems to agree that this isn't on the right track so I'm gonna stop acting like there's a silver lining.
Gosh darnit Legion why do you have to be so damn complicated?Thanks for the feedback nevertheless.
Don't feel bad. Legion's power is one of the hardest to balance. He's essentially gets the ability to ignore every defense a survivor has like Nurse, but is much easier to play. it's hard to balance an ability like that.
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@Trwth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1684442#Comment_1684442
That's exactly what I hear from everyone and I don't know what else they could possibly do to Legion to help them. I've been constantly pointing everyone to the post I made about Legion's flaws at the top of this thread, and I'm trying to address the issues in this rework. I don't want to get into detail because that's like... an entire essay to write for a single reply. I don't mean to be so stubbornly obstinate, but this is my second attempt at Legion and feel really confident about this one.
You're missing the point. Your keeping Legion's flaws but also adding new ones, in this case, a terrible early game. Not to mention, the moment anyone knows you're a Legion, they will split up—that's the counterplay to Legion and why getting a good early game is important.
You have an idea but you're missing the fundamental problems. It's a power meant to punish survivors for grouping up... but you have to earn it, giving them plenty of time to spit up. Not to mention, the punishment is just holding M1 for 12 seconds.
Again, let us compare to Oni. People split up against Oni too (to avoid Infectious) but the thing is, Oni's Wrath mode give him the ability to straight-up insta-down on TOP of being really fast with Demon Dash AND almost lasting a minute. It's doable to hook someone, see more on BBQ, go into Blood Fury, then Dash over there and snow ball.
Legion can't do this, despite having a similarly bad early game with this purposed changed. He's having the same problems, with more Legion-specific problems as well, and for far less reward.
I know you've put a lot of effort into this. I'm sorry, but just will not work. Unless you change Legion completely, there is no way this will work, and if you do so, you might as well think of a new killer entirely.
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Now, I want you to know, I do not hate the idea of this change. However, as it stands, this is pretty much a nerf.
What are current Legion's weaknesses? His massive cooldown/fatigue, his gauge depletes on basic attacks, his DW timer gives a generous 30 secs to survivors, a short timer on his Frenzy combined with a relatively mundane speed increase, and (most importantly) his power cannot down survivors.
Let's compare this to Oni. Oni needs to get 1 hit and milk the injured survivor. What does he get? He gets 45 seconds of having one of the best chase powers in the game and can down a whole team before the gauge is depleted (unlikely, but potentially).
Legion... can't do that. It's a weak power, so adding a condition to make you work for it is simply an arbitrary nerf. Now, adding in the passive is pretty cool, if a massive pain to code in, but it's simply not enough. Legion needs help, but this isn't the way.
I do like the thought process behind this though. Perhaps you could use it to create your own killer rather than being limited by trying to improve Legion?
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I'd argue his basekit needs just a few tweaks. My idea is having the 4 sec cooldown/fatigue get reduced by 0.5 secs for every successful stab (to a max of 2 secs), reduce the DW timer to 15 secs, and have him keep his collision while vaulting. After that, a few add-on changes and he'll be good to go.
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Frank's - The loss of 1 sec in Frenzy is unnecessary imo
Movement speed - Pretty good, ngl
Stab Wounds - Not only should this be base instead of an add-on, decreasing the cooldown from 4 secs to 3 is just bad. Make this base, increase the numbers slightly, and change the cooldown add-ons.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1681718#Comment_1681718
Honestly, same. Have like, I dunno, a 40% slowdown cap, then Thanatophobia could be like 10% slowdown per person (adding 40 seconds onto generator times at max stacks if I did my maths correctly, as the 20% thana we have on the PTB adds 20 seconds), and Dying Light could be something similarly strong like 6% per token idk. Though, they would definitely have to revise how that works on Plague and Legion if they did buff it that much. Legion is already M1 simulator, please don't make it that much longer.
Actually, there is a soft cap. Because the debuffs are multiplicative instead of additive (16% from C!Thana + 9% from DL does NOT equal 25%). This is to prevent the debuffs becoming too extreme.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1681712#Comment_1681712
Which is quite a shame tbh.
I would love to see a buff to perks like dying light or thana but mak them not stackable
That wouldn't be feasible. i don't need to be a dev to know that they do not want two perks that literally cannot be ran together. as they do the same thing, they'll forever stack until one is entirely reworked.
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@Almo May I ask if Legion (or Plague to some extent) are strongly taken into consideration when any changes to Thana are made? I ask this as Legion is indisputably the best killer when it comes to injuring survivors and keeping them so.
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No. Insidious is a terrible perk unless you decide to camp someone.
But on Spirit especially? No. Whooshing is hidden by your TR, and if you have no TR, then everyone will hear it. Spirit can't even use it to camp effectively because of all the ghostly moans and glass creaking she makes whenever she's within a 16m radius.
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Knowing BHVR, they'll probably develop a perk and call it a day. i mean, they have Shadowborn instead of an FOV slider and Bloodhound instead of a colorblind mode (for those that can't see blood)
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@vux_intruder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1664732#Comment_1664732
if any killer needed a buff it was clown, not bubba. it's just not fun playing against him now. can hardly ever escape his chainsaw even around most loops; even strong loops and people who play him still camp hooks. boring af.
People will always camp. It's an insta-down that can multi-hit; people will do that. And the counterplay to Bubba is simple: Run around closed spaces, never go out in the open, and give him every pallet to slow him down.
And... you're saying Bubba was the easiest... in getting consistent 4ks? Freddy would like a word.
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@Szarman after re-reading, i noticed a few of my own ideas incorperated into this (reducing the DW timer, reducing fatigue by 0.5 secs per successful stab). Coincidence, or are you taking notes, hmm?
Eh, doesn't matter.
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If you're predicting as a Blight, then you're also predicting counterplay, meaning you're predicting that the survivor is going to juke to the left last second as they were running right. It's very similar to how you play ranged killers or even the Nurse to some extent. Combine that with the fact that he can catch up to you before you reach a loop and the best mobility in the game, and you've got a deadly killer with an unbelievabl high skill ceiling.
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It doesn't matter what the killer likes.
You learn very quickly when you play killer that time is not on your side. You need to end your chases quickly, even if that means giving up on one survivor because you need to disturb another to slow down the gen progress. Looping in the traditional sense is simply not very practical is many scenarios. If it's not a loop that the killer can outplay reliably and/or the survivor seems to be playing it super safe, then the smart thing is to just leave.
Pop, Corrupt, Old Ruin, Undying-Ruin—these are all meta. Do you know why? They all give killers time.
Nurse is the best killer in the game. Why? The lack of counterplay? No, it's because her chases are some of the fastest in the game. Spirit? Extremely good chase (also you don't know ######### she's doing half the time). Pyramid Head (currently, anyway)? He can quickly kill survivors thanks to his anti-loop and ability to play around DS-Unbreakable. What makes Blight awesome? He's one of the few killers that can catch up to you before you reach a loop, and this is despite his kit containing no real anti-loop outside of some really crafty uses here or there.
Worst killers? Clown who can't end his chases fast enough because of his lack of lethality and can't pressure the map in any other way, Legion whose power only gets the first hit in and is at the mercy of Deep Wound and survivors healing for stall potential/map pressure, Trapper who needs time to set up (and unlike Hag, he's not borderline unstoppable once set up), Wraith's power doesn't help in a chase—nothing helping them get quick downs and pressure survivors.
I've gone off on a tangent. TL:DR time constraints of the match often means the killer cannot afford to run loops.
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@HEX_MalusGrey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1675646#Comment_1675646
Rhetorical question: Isn't it part of being a game designer to design your game in a way that it is enjoyable for everyone, and not the exact opposite?
So what's the point then?
Used properly, Bubba is a fun, scary opponent to verse. As a camper? Not so much, but neither is Billy, PH, Plague (with Corrupt), Myers, etc.
People will always find a way to abuse/exploit something.
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No, just... no.
Yes, Bubba is the best camper in the game. He can insta-down and multi-hit, having just one would make him a great camper. He has both because it's part of his design and something that distinguishes him from his Chainsaw Bro, Billy.
No, the devs will not implement a system to prevent camping. They have said time and time again that while they do not want to encourage it, they still would like camping to be a viable strategy (face in: in some scenarios, camping is the smart thing to do).
If there is a camping Bubba, then leave the person to die on the hook. Yes, it's unfortunate, but that's all you can do. Get gens done and by the time it's all over, it'll be too late. Even if he can down another person and camp them, that's more than enough time for the rest of the survivors to open an exit gate, teabag and be waiting in the next lobby. Due to a lack of hooks (and chaser emblems 'cause chainsaw), he is going to depip.
You cannot even safety pip you spend the time face camping unless the survivors do what the Bubba wants and that's to try to go for the rescue in spite of him being there. Insidious? Pay very close attention when entering a basement—you can still hear him down there, and if you do, run away and never look back.
Does this make solo queues hell? Yes, but they always will be. Is camping enjoyable? No, it sucks for everyone. The most you can do is simply punish the killer for doing so.
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I was rude in your previous iteration of this, and for that, I apologize once more. This is much better thought out than what it was like before.
I think rather than calling it "Hidden Wound" you can just call it marking a survivor, sorta like how Ghosty's stalk is referred to as "marking" in his add-ons.
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How to explain this?
Let's think about all the insta down kilers, shall we?
Billy and Bubba? They gotta rev a chainsaw, and if you're scared, give them every pallet. Oni? He's gotta get his power, which means getting the first hit. Myers? Needs T3. Ghosty? Needs to mark you. They all need to do something to get that down.
The Perks? Haunted needs survivors to screw up. Dragon's grip gives a huge warning once triggered. Devour is a hex. NOED is also a hex (a hated one at that) and an endgame perk. They're all conditional in some form.
Then, you have Iri head. The Huntress gets 3 (let's face it, it's always with Infantry belt) attempts to insta-down you without doing anything to earn it. Sure, she has to land a hatchet, but she can just get in melee range and done. It's very unfun. Bad Huntresses can still win with that add-on, and a good Huntress with Iri head is one of the few times I say a DC is justified.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1669935#Comment_1669935
I Think your concerns are valid so let's change the perk a little to make it viable.
Remove the exposed status and scream
Any survivor that gets into a locker outside of your terror radius, has there arua shown to them for as long as they still in the locker
You open lockers and pull survivors out of lockers 30% faster
How is that?
I think reducing 50% to 30% is unneeded, but otherwise, I think it would work a lot better.
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Less of an exact "moment" but often when playing as a console Nurse, people are often very nice and encouraging despite the obvious difficulties. It's a nice change of pace compared to the normal hate messages.
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This is... would not work very well. Allow me to explain why.
- The effect is only for 4 secs at max lvl. Survivors don't attempt to leave until the killer is long gone (typically waiting a sec or two after the TR fades). That's not enough time for the killer to make it back before the survivor is long gone.
- It still has current IM's weakness. What's that? Once they know you have this perk... they won't go into lockers. It's not subtle in the slightest.
- It's an aura with no noise indicator. This makes it very easy to miss as a killer. However, if there is an indicator, I will retract this statement.
Just about the only thing this would be good for is countering Head-On. That's pretty much it.
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If the Obsession dies, it's off. You keep your tokens, so if Obsession changes, the perk reactivates but otherwise no. No Obsession = No Perk. It completely deactivates. If the Icon is still on, then it's a visual bug because the the perk isn't working anymore.
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Freddy - the overtuned boring bastard can go back to burning in hell.
Doc - Much less I hate facing him, more like I hate facing him with solo-teammates. They always, always, ALWAYS go, "How did he fi-AAAAAAAHHH me!"
Clown - He gives me headaches that's to that damn gas.
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The concept is cool. The issue is that it would be a coding nightmare! On top of the RNG that already exists with the power, how it would interact with various in-game systems, there's also the matter of coding an AI specifically for 1 killer.
Furthermore, because his power is almost entirely based around RNG, he would be a very inconsistent killer. Especially given the token system that would have a brutally long recovery time for each token, unless, of course, you get a hook. You, as a killer, are forced to work hard for a power that you cannot rely on.
Some of the perks are nifty, but have problems.
Perk 1 gives wallhacks to killers mid-chase as long as they have bloodlust. it would be pretty unfair for the poor survivor, or Dwight hiding in a locker thinking you'd pass him.
Perk 2 is pretty cool, but having all the tokens go away if you're stunned by a perk (Head-on and DS coming to mind) is a bit of a slap in the face.
Perk 3 is... this one is not very good tbh. If you're a Ghost Face, you won't be using it. If you have MYC, the bubble notification will hide the aura (same with Dragon's grip). Myers would have 3 secs of straight-up knowing where everyone is in T3 which is not insignificant, but outside of him, no one would really use it outside of some niche builds.
In short: Very cool idea and I love the amount of thought you've put into it. There are some practical issues regarding an RNG power and straight-up creating a 2nd killer, but I like your thinking. Good job, honestly.
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Unlikely. Nurse has the strongest power in the game. Even after being drastically nerfed, she is still considered the strongest killer in the game by many. Literally the only reason she's not used more is because she is so hard to use (a necessity due to just how strong she is). I highly doubt BHVR wants to create another killer like that. In fact, I don't think BHVR even realized how powerful Nurse was when they created her; it's just something that happened.
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@Szarman I was a bit rude in my previous statement. I apologize.
The problem with making Frenzy lethal is the lack of counter play available. You go see Old Legion (who didn't need to full gauge to Frenzy) and you'll see how unfair it was. Just stab, chase, repeat. There was nothing a survivor could do. It was as unfair as it was unfun.
Perhaps there is a way to restore Legion's status as being a very unique killer, while also creating an effective form of counter play. If that's the route you decide to go, I wish you the best of luck.
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Because... Bubba was considered one of the weakest killers in the game? He only became decent with 1 specific perk combination and/or stacked charge add-ons.
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@AhoyWolf said:
Sounds like great changes, by "cooldown" add-ons you mean the Rulers or the Fatigue add-ons?
I would also remove the penalty for successful attacks while not in Feral Frenzy. (The 50% power gauge penalty)
The Ruler add-ons are recovery. I meant things like Cold Dirt. So yes, the fatigue add-ons.
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No! No! No! Oh GOD, no!
Look, you put a lot of time into this. I respect it. And you do have good ideas. There is just one problem...
DW—depleting the gauge with Frenzy—that one is literally Old Legion with Frank's Mixtape. Combine that with your idea for a rework of Frank's and it really IS Old Legion.
Look, Legion needs a buff. But that suggestion risks bringing back one of the most unfair, unfun, poorly designed messes that have ever haunted this game.
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@Orion said:
There are many problems with making unique killers. To name a few off the top of my head:
- Unique killers require unique counters and not everyone will enjoy what the counters entail. This means playing against those killers will not be enjoyable for a large portion of the playerbase. While this is easy to dismiss as just whining from sore losers, people will not play a game that they don't enjoy.
- Unique killers are more complex from a programming standpoint, meaning they require more resources (money) and will come with a slew of bugs (look at the Nurse). Smaller profit margin means the people in charge will be less likely to go along with this idea.
- Unique killers are a nightmare to balance, especially given the ever-increasing number of perks, maps, and interactions.
With that said, I would love for us to get some more unique killers. It feels like we haven't gotten a truly unique killer since the Plague. Even the Executioner, not taking into account the cages, is basically a Deathslinger that doesn't have to reload.
Oh, I know it's hard. They can be busted like Nurse, pathetically weak like Old Freddy, or... whatever the hell Old Legion was.
It's just that with out of 21 killers now, only 2 play completely differently from each other. Eh, I'll take another Blight over another Old Legion any day though.
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I had my net give out when i was against an Object swf... thank you, internet.
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Sloppy is not a good perk on Legion. It used to be great, but as Frenzy is no longer considered a basic attack, its use is pretty little.
You need a form of gen suppression. Undying-Ruin, Pop, or Surge. Something along those lines. You can compliment/strengthen those perks slightly by running Thanatophobia as Legion is indisputably the best user of that perk.
assuming you don't like running running slowdown, you can run a chase perk or two. Brutal-Enduring is nice on Legion as he has pretty much 0 chase potential outside of getting 1 hit in.
His add-ons are... they're pretty bad.
Detection? Worthless as you cannot capitalize on this info.
Iri Pin is an exception to the above statement. While you can't capitalize on the information, you get a moment of getting a general idea on where everyone on the map is, which is great.
Duration? All of them are great. All of them! Even the brown adds 1 sec which often means the difference between a hit or losing Frenzy prematurely.
Cooldown? Cold Dirt is the only decent one. You can combine it with Joey's mixtape which does have a noticeable decrease but it's rarely worth 2 add-ons slots.
Franks/Stab Wounds? NEVER under ANY circumstance should you run these. They're add-ons that were meant for Old Legion, and he was a mistake—let's not speak of him again.
Knives? They're okay. Not great, but okay. Their effect is pretty weak, but considering the amount of mending survivors need to do against Legion, it'll add up.
Pins? The Smiley Pins are worthless. Legion Pin that applies the broken status is pretty good though.
Fuming Mixtape? A little underrated in my opinion. It can replace an info perk if you want which is great. It's not amazing, but it's a decent add-on.
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Reading the title, i can tell you a lot has been done.
Desperate Measures, Unbreakable, Soul Guard, and WGLF (once the buff goes live). Killers get less points the less they hook people, so a 4k slug at the start barely nets you any points and a black pip at best.
If you're slugged, crawl to a pallet to recover. if he tries to pick you up, any close teammates can do a pallet save. he doesn't pick you up? Your teammate (and by extension, you) has a defense if he tries to heal you. If you're the last guy left, try to stay out of sight. go for the first person slugged who should have been recovering in the mean time. If you can't, they can see your aura, you can try gesturing them to crawl to you if there's any reason you can't go to them.
Also, 9+ hooks is an iri emblem. That's above and beyond the intended standard created by the emblems.
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@Zeon_99 said:
Decrease in fatigue time for every survivor hit. You should get rewarded for hitting multiple survivors. .4 seconds taken off per survivor would be decent for base. Add ons can increase the amount taken off, for example:
Julies Mix Tape: Adds .1 seconds to each removed fatigue cooldown.
Joeys Mix Tape: Adds .15 seconds to each removed fatigue cooldown.
Cold Dirt: Adds .2 seconds to each removed fatigue cooldown.
Fuming Mix Tape: Decreases removed fatigue per chain hit by .3 seconds. Increase Legions base speed by 5% per survivor hit with Feral Frenzy up to 4 times.
Between your idea and mine, I think I'm noticing a pattern with the fatigue...
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I made my own post about this, so I'll summarize.
Basekit change: Every successful stab reduces the cooldown/fatigue by 0.5 secs to a max of 2 secs.
DW change: reduce timer from 30 secs to 15
Cooldown add-on change: these add-ons will instead reduce the Frenzy lost on a missed attack by 20%, 35%, 50%
Frank's Mixtape: Every successful stab increases speed while in Frenzy by 5% to a max of 15%.
Stab Wounds: I changed my mind on this one from my original post. Instead, it induces an indefinite Mangled/Hemorrhage effect until healed, effectively being a Frenzy version of Sloppy Butcher.
Collision changes: When Legion vaults a pallet/window, he retains his collision, preventing the survivor from clipping through his model to double vault.
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I can tell you a few things about Spirit.
- Get a good headset. No, seriously. Spirit relies a lot on sound, hence its necessity.
- Other than sound, you're going to need to develop a good sense of both the map and survivor movements. Learn to predict where to go until your ears can guide you the rest of the way.
- Stridor is to Spirit what Shadowborn is to Nurse. It helps but if you start using it, you cannot play without it. It's the sole counter to Iron Will, so I won't blame you for it. You're going to need to adjust, especially if you play other killers.
- Phasing is a very useful tool due to its versitility. Don't be afraid to use it for mobility, but at the same time, try not to over use it. As a new Spirit, feel free to experiment to see what type of usage works for you.
- Spine Chill still gives you away while you're phasing. Remember that when you're trying to mindgame.
- Don't bother with undetectable/stealth perks on Spirit. Her ghostly moans and the glass creaking gives her away from around 16m, which while shorter than her 24m TR, isn't worth a perk slot imo. Furthermore, those within her TR can't hear her phasing, and if you have no TR...
- Her add-ons are absolutely insane. Duration, Speed, Activation, and Reappearance Speed are the ones you want to keep an eye on. Due to a developer oversight, duration add-ons also give faster recovery hence them being better than recovery is almost every way. Speed and Activation speed add-ons are a bit self explanatory. Her Reappearance Speed add-ons are... just insane. When you come out of phasing, you briefly (and I mean less than a second) keep your phasing speed. How is this helpful? She gets a longer lunge. With add-ons, her lunge is just ridiculous! Try it for yourself.
- This is less of a tip and more of a warning. Many guides (Tofu's included) are a bit outdated. Spirit used to lack a vault animaton, keep collision while phasing, among other things. The general idea of how to play the killer is still true, however.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I dont see an increase in Prove Thyself-players in my games. It was a Perk which I saw quite frequently anyway.
When you put it like that, maybe I just never noticed until now...
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@Godot said:
Nothing happened. It's a perk and it's being used, as every perk should be.
Oh, I have no problem with it being used. I just see it so often now when it used to be something I saw on occasion.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1656432#Comment_1656432
It's not 1%, it's 1% per injured survivor. So 1-4% depending on how many survivors are injured. So without any other perks that's 4-20 extra seconds per solo survivor gen speed.
Obviously Ruin is more powerful, the downside there is that as a Hex it can be removed. Ruin + Undying mitigates that issue but that is two perks so I would hope it would be better than one perk on its own!
Pop Goes the Weasel is 20 second slow down per trigger and can't be removed. On the other hand you're not guaranteed to get to Pop a gen after every hook necessarily, occasionally you'll miss a chance, and if you're not getting downs it's not going to help you catch up much
Thana is the weakest of the three in terms of gen slow down but it's also passive, it require no additional action on your part as a killer other than your normal attempts to hit survivors. That does make it a bit more time efficient than it might seem at first glance. And of course it can't be removed since it's not a Hex
Dying Light is probably the weakest of the main gen slow down perks, mainly because it takes a while to ramp up and in order for you to get it to a good slowdown you have to be getting a lot of hooks anyway so it's a bit of a "win more" perk. (If you already have four or five non-Obsession hooks by midgame you're probably doing well even without this perk.) The fact that it also doesn't even apply its penalty to the Obsession is just insult to injury, it's not great, at least not on its own.
I believe Otzdarva put it best when he said that Thana works best when it makes other perks better. It makes that little bit lost from Surge or Pop hit that tiny bit harder.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1656553#Comment_1656553
2-3%? Serious? That would be 32% at max stacks. Remember forever Freddy? He was at 16 (Thana) + 12 (chains) + 9 (rope) when all survivors sleeping and injured, that is 37%
N.B. max! most of the time it was below that because you cannot keep all injured and sleepy. And currently Forever Freddy is still valuable and annoying to go against, with 'only' 28% max, getting buffed back to 32%, while the sleepy addons STILL reduce healing speed.
Actually, that's not quite how debuffs are calculated.
Notice New Thana (20%) and Dying Light at 6 stacks (18%) is 122? 20+18=38, seemingly meaning 38% slowdown which would be 129, yet, that's not how it works. Debuffs are multiplicative, not additive.
I'm not saying that would be pleasant to play against, just that the math is not that simple.
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@SweetTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1656520#Comment_1656520
That's what I was expecting as well. Thana is supposed to encourage survivors to heal so as not to suffer reduced action speeds, but a 1% buff is not nearly enough.
This is rather assumptious of me, but I believe a key reason for a 1% buff rather than a 2% or 3% is because Legion (the best user of the perk by far) would pretty much have the best and most reliable slowdown in the game since he can reliably keep people injured and undo heals almost immediately.
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Legion is a very flexible killer due to how basic he is.
What is widely seen as his best build is Pop+Surge+Thrilling Tremors and a 4th perk of your choosing. Could be enduring, Thanatophobia, or Devour Hope if you want to make everyone panic.
But let's say you don't want to do that. Perks synergize well with Legion?
Thanatophobia and Dying Light make a mean combo on Legion. Due to his ability to injure survivors, getting Thana stacks is easy and the Dying Light healing buff to the obsession actually helps you as they may try to heal more. If you can get DL stacks, then you can absolutely slow the game to a crawl... you might get a lot of hate messages though.
Undying-Ruin is also a pretty good combo, naturally. It's good on almost every killer and Legion is no exception.
Brutal-Enduring is alright. Legion's chase is pretty weak, so these perks help him out in that. You could also slap on Spirit Fury.
Nurse's Calling is surprisingly useful on him. Mending does NOT count as healing and you shouldn't waste time healing against Legion... but really, Survivors like healing against Legion, for some reason I cannot comprehend.
Deathbound is good and bad on him. If combo-ed with Nurse's, it can make unconfident survivors give up healing (if they're healing, they must not trust their chase game enough). However, because a survivor becomes Oblivious, they cannot be affected by your Terror Radius... so your Killer Instinct (the location tool that activates after you stab a survivor in Frenzy) will not detect them.
Getting into add-ons.... most are garbage, I won't lie.
Iri button is his best as it means Killer Instinct tell you where everyone is (but being an iri add-on, you won't use it often).
Fuming mixtape is a bit of an underrated add-on. It's not amazing, but it's great for info and can replace any info perk you may have in a build.
His Duration add-ons (ALL OF THEM) are amazing. Even the brown that literally gives 1 sec makes a huge difference. The Rulers are only good if you keep missing hits (which you shouldn't do).
Franks/Stab Wounds are outdated and should NEVER be used unless you're meme-ing (even then, the survivors will hate you).
The Knife add-ons are okay. Not great, but serviceable. Really, they stall is only good if they're stacked.
The Cooldown add-ons are underwhelming. Only one worth running is Cold Dirt, and (though it's rarely worth it) you can combine it with Joey's Mixtape to reduce the cooldown/fatigue from 4 secs... to 3 secs (great add-ons, am I right?). The ones that increase your Killer Instinct Detection Range are... okay, but you cannot capitalize on the info, so just run Iri Button otherwise, your 40m range is enough.
Legion Pin is great as it breaks people for a minute, while the rest are about as useful as Self-Care with No Mither against a God Nurse. Defaced Pin is worthless (temporarily mangled... so scary) and the Smiley Face is a joke (Blindness... enough said).
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There is a PTB of the changes coming on the 29th