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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974623#Comment_3974623
yeah but if you give people killers they actually want they might not play meta.
it's a bad example, but I would 100% never played those killers if I had Cenobite.
Yeah, having no one to play is often a problem in 2v8. It is one of the reasons why I believe the mode should happen less frequently, if that means each new iteration will have more killers to play (more than two new additions per iteration, I mean).
Because if players are locked out of their favorites, and most of the roster in general, you'll see the same combinations over and over again.
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It is the item they should killswitch, not Pig.
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Next patch would be my guess.
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@Hannacia said:
I think the no chase bug happens even without the vials? I did get the bug in matches where i had 0 vials and i was playing ghoul. Those were the most calm matches ever. I had no chase music.
I'm only playing ghoul until the chase bug gets resolved. At least she has the speed to keep up and i never take my trusty bamboozle off.
I miss my spirit but at the moment i feel like playing her would cause me to just have a really bad day. Not sure why these vials were added, i hate them with passion.
I miss my spirit but at the moment i feel like playing her would cause me to just have a really bad day
Playing my SM without being able to start chases was certainly an experience.
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Patiently waiting for 2v8 Skull Merchant.
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As I've said on a different thread, I really hope they scrap this system. It has no redeeming qualities.
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@Metagamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973835#Comment_3973835
Wesker is not "high mobility" in any capacity.
Wesker can dash after charging his bound for 1.5 seconds, causing him to move at 3.68m/s.
He can then dash for 0.5 seconds on his first dash, and 1 full second on his second dash at 14m/s.
Being generous and assuming you instantly transition between bounds in a straight line, that is exactly 21m cleared in 1.5 seconds.
Wesker also needs to wind down from his power after finishing a dash, causing him to move at 2.3m/s for 3 seconds.
The easiest way to calculate this is to simply add up the total distance if you never stopped holding W from beginning of his windup to the end of his wind-down, then compare it to how long a 115% killer takes to simply walk that distance.
1.5s at 3.68m/s is 5.52m
1.5s at 14m/s is 21m
3s at 2.3m/s is 6.9m
Now we add it up to a total of 33.42. This means that Wesker can travel 33.42m in 6 seconds.
The base killer walkspeed is 4.6m/s. Since we have the total time it takes Wesker to travel we simply multiply our base killer speed in seconds.
4.6m/s * 6 = 27.6m
The difference between Wesker's Distance in a straight line from a bound plus a chain bound and a normal 115% killer is 5.82m
How much time does this save? 5.82m / 4.6 = approximately 1.26.
Therefor 1 virulent bound and a chain bound save 1.26 seconds of walking at the default killer speed of 4.6m/s a second. Keep in mind this is under the most ideal circumstance of having a straight shot to wherever he's going with both bounds and assuming that he instantly initiates both bounds. Any hesitation adds additional loss to distance, along with accidentally colliding with one of these 13 million piles of garbage, rocks, bushes, or invisible walls. This also isn't considering his lengthy cooldown of 11 seconds for both of his tokens to recharge, meaning he can't use it more than once when travelling from point A to point B unless several survivors are infected (granting 0.5 seconds faster recharge per token per infected).
In conclusion, Wesker is not a mobility killer as he is not even remotely comparable to actual mobility killers such as Blight, Billy, Kaneki, Dredge, etc. Feel free to correct me if you think there is something wrong is misleading in my calculations.For a power of that nature, there is still too much on his kit.
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@Metagamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971960#Comment_3971960
Do you actually think Wesker is overtuned? He's like high B-tier as he has only slight mobility and a VERY inconsistent anti-loop as many tiles just turn you into an m1. He also just has one of the most punishing powers to miss with in the entire game, only other I can think of is Twins.
Yes, I do think he is overtuned. A high-mobility kit cannot be as bloated as his, because mobility-based powers are already strong by themselves.
Wesker gets mobility, passive slowdown, tracking, and path denial, all in one kit. It is too much. It would be fine if he didn't have a dash, but since he does, his power cannot have so much more stuff in it.
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Yes, this chapter release is really bad.
While I don't think any release will surpass A Binding Of Kin, because that one genuinely broke everything, this chapter really is a mess.
Chases being bugged is literally game breaking, Last Stand wasn't fixed, and even stairs (for some reason) are broken, as they can slow you down.
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I strongly believe this system should be scrapped and never return to the game. There are no redeeming qualities about it, and it will never work properly.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973553#Comment_3973553
Skull merchant got nerfed because of her awful 3 gen potential, not because of her haste lol
They are referring to Skull Merchant 2.0, my dear friend, not her first version.
And back when she got unnecessarily nerfed, they did alter the Haste and Hindered effects of her power, even though they weren't problematic to begin with.
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Yes, they do.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973508#Comment_3973508
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973438#Comment_3973438
For the entier game or just while the cloud lasts?
Whole game after someone uses a Fog vial. Supposedly it can also happen even if no one uses a Fog vial, but I am not sure.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973506#Comment_3973506
Imagining STBFL/Rapid Brutality/Machine Learning/Help Wanted on this iteration of Clown. Could wipe a team in under 60 seconds with all perks active
That sounds absolutely miserable to go against.
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@TWiXT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973508#Comment_3973508
On the plus side, Pig can get more headpops, since the timers never pause on her RBT's, so she can just chase them to death. Perhaps this was a Pig shadow buff they forgot to mention?
I would advise against it, though. It is exploit abuse.
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The chase never starts.
No bloodlust, no Entity blockers, not even music.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
this sounds like an utter joy to face on haddonfield
I think there is no scenario where survivors can win against this combination of current Clown + Haddonfield.
It might just be impossible.
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As people have already mentioned here, my friend, I think the problem were the design previews for Skull Merchant.
At the very, very least, Trickster's identity was always preserved. He throws knives, and would continue to throw knives. At no point that was at risk of being changed, at least not that I know of.
Skull Merchant's design previews, however, were genuinely garbage, and that is the nicest word I can think of to describe them. Because they, quite literally, erased her identity. Naturally SM players didn't like it and never would, so now things have to be redone from scratch, hopefully while keeping her identity intact. Unfortunately, that will most likely take more time than Trickster's changes will.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
How annoying it is depends on your killer and skill of survivors.
Sure, if survivors drop it while you are 3 meters next to them, it doesn't do much.
If they drop it as soon they see you comming, then it's unlikely to find them…
I have so far had to play against as Oni and it was very annoying, especially when I was in demon dash. Because of worse camera control, if I lost LoS of survivor, then they are just gone before I cancel and turn around….
I am definetly not looking forward it as Deathslinger.If they drop it as soon they see you comming, then it's unlikely to find them…
Had a pretty funny situation on Hawkins yesterday where one Rick Grimes dropped a Fog Vial as I was approaching, and it was pretty much impossible to know where he had gone… but I don't think even he realized where he was going, because he ran straight to one of my drones, and got scanned.
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Before this update I think the killer experience was alright.
Not the healthiest / easiest / strongest it had ever been, but generally speaking there wasn't much being stacked against killers recently. That would still be true if this update didn't have a game breaking bug where chases do not start.
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972763#Comment_3972763
Yeah, i haven't had it at all in my games where a fog vial isn't present in game. They need kill switching ASAP.
Yes, I agree.
Chases being bugged is, quite literally, game breaking.
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Seems to be the same bug that the fog vials caused on Halloween.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972598#Comment_3972598
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3XMG8JR2MX1L/image.png
My survivor queue time is obnoxious right now, and it's usually way too early for me to be seeing a bonus on the killer side.
Haven't seen the bonus on the killer side in such a long time that it fells odd to look at it.
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I think the popular characters take priority here, as they are a bigger incentive to buy the rift.
But I am personally happy with the selection we've got. This is the first rift that I've chosen to buy the pass since the very first one from 2019.
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If I understood it correctly, you have to activate the perk by being in the killer's terror radius but not in chase, then once it is activated you can use it at any given point, as long as you vault towards the killer.
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It is a dead perk now, certainly. Although I do wonder if the difference is even being felt right now, because Franklin's was barely ever used to begin with.
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If you're concerned about healing, then Gift of Pain and Leverage are good choices. Though it is probably a bad idea to use both together, as that will most likely make people give up on healing and go back to gens immediately.
As for the others, you can just play like you normally play. None of them ever required Franklin's in the first place.
Toolboxes were used right from the start most of the time, so it didn't really matter. Lightborn is a better option for dealing with flashlights, because it also counters flashbangs, and there is no way to know if survivors even have flashbangs before the match starts.
Maps and keys were awful, and the Fog Vials have just been added, we still have to wait and see how strong they truly are.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972016#Comment_3972016
What is it about Skull Merchant's playstyle that you actually like?
Are you into it for the trap-planning?
Are you into it for the insta down effect?
Are you into it for lastertagging? etcTrap-planning, map control, lack of unfun mechanics (dashslop, ranged projectiles), stealth and lasertagging.
Now, I know the first version doesn't have lasertagging, but it does have the others. I would personally prefer a return to 2.0, but I can accept 1.0 as well.
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972016#Comment_3972016
Not really, you would have rise in totem builds instead, which I would say vere almost equally problematic.
I have played a lot of games using Devour hope on her and it was near impossible to remove.
There was a reason why the whistle addon from Demo was removed, because it basically did same thing.Truth be told, my friend, I hadn't thought about Totem builds.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971923#Comment_3971923
The problem is that they have to dedicate resources to that rework. People don't like the shift from her identity at all, which I kind of understand, because it will be another hybrid with multipower. I honestly think that her 1.0 version with 3 gen limitations that been done would be the best option now, during chess merchant era you could use drone in tile to get undetectable, see survivors on radar and make them exposed. Her add ons were chase related - faster break, vault, pallet destroy… but people sit with her on gens. Version 2.0 was as boring as 3genning Merchant. I still feel that her drones should scout maps on their own and have some lethality. The current Merchan't drones are mostly just short undetectable on demand.
I'm just scared, that it will end like Twins where people won't like it, they will scrap it and she won't be touched for another year. Like I don't complain, Twins been dead for 5 years with one failed attempt to do something about it. She's getting 3rd rework.
I honestly think that her 1.0 version with 3 gen limitations that been done would be the best option now
I would happily accept that, tbh. With the anti 3-gen mechanic in place things would be okay, I would say.
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@TheGoone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971947#Comment_3971947
I hated old ruin so can't share that same sentiment
Fair enough, my friend, it just seems to be the least disliked killer meta, at least in my experience.
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Congratulations, my friend!
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@Metagamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970529#Comment_3970529
All of which have been entirely justified. Deadhard was problematic, 5 second DS was problematic, Made for This was insanely problematic. A lot of maps were ridiculous. Medkits are still the strongest item after being nerfed heavily, it was justified entirely (even if killing the identity of the different medkits kinda sucks).
Can you give me examples of survivor nerfs that you feel are entirely unjustified or unfair?Can you give me examples of survivor nerfs that you feel are entirely unjustified or unfair?
Well, my friend, a few immediately come to mind:
Adrenaline nerf, DS losing its 5 second stun, most map reworks (Coldwind realm in particular), introduction of new tiles to the game, Iron Will nerf, Self-Care nerf, Balanced Landing nerf, Distortion nerf, and the gradual deterioration of the stealthy playstyle, although that also affects stealthy killers, so I am not sure if it counts.
There could be more though.
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Ghostface, Wesker and Ghoul.
For a very long time, Ghostface was the killer I disliked most in DBD. And that is because of how terrible his reveal mechanic is. Ghostface's main counterplay is the reveal mechanic. That is how it is supposed to work. You either remain stealthy, approach unseen and mark a survivor, or they see you and reveal you. That is fair in theory, but in reality the reveal mechanic simply doesn't work most of the time, regardless of angle or time spent looking at him.
Wesker I dislike because of how bloated his kit is for a dash killer. A killer whose primary power is movement based cannot have so many things in their kit. Wesker gets dash, injury on windows, passive slowdown with the infection, killer instinct when you remove the infection, and he can throw you on a random direction which no other killer can do. It is too much, way too much. That doesn't make him impossible to beat, of course, but it makes him utterly miserable to go against, in my opinion.
Ghoul needs no explanation, to be honest. Extremely oppressive power with very little room for counterplay, if any.
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@HPhoenix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971147#Comment_3971147
Doing quite well! What about you? Hope things are going well with ya!
Ah, that is good to know!
I'm doing well, my friend, thank you for asking!
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@TheGoone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971408#Comment_3971408
Reverse that was there ever a killer meta survivors liked? No because there will always be an US vs Them
I can kinda think of one: Old Ruin.
Now, I wouldn't say it was "liked" per se, but what makes it different from the others was that Ruin had three different counters: hit Great Skill Checks, find the totem or gen tap. You, as a survivor, had a lot of agency.
Everything after that was disliked, yes. Ruin + Undying, Gen Kick era, Thrill of the Hunt in late 2024, Pain Res + DMS these days.
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Drop my item if I have one. If I don't have an item, then I just accept my fate.
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@Clevarz said:
Personally I have a lot of fun looping ghoul never understood the frustration of going against him 😞😞
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FR0WO122SIC9/download.png
Hello friend, interesting list! I like the Skull Merchant appreciation here!
I've noticed the Vecna appreciation these last few lists. Though I must admit I don't really like him.
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That is a good thing.
Ghoul is extremely oppressive and leaves little room for counterplay, if any. He needs a nerf.
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@Linkdouken said:
He wouldn't be as painful to go against if so many maps didn't have complete dead zones as they tend to these days
Yeah, games against him would be better if the maps still had resources, like they used to.
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Yes, while I am having more fun with her than any other killer in DBD's history, sometimes it is unfairly difficult to get value out of your power, unless survivors make zero effort to avoid drones.
She could really use a reversion. Not a rework. Reversion. Though I personally think a reversion to Merchant 2.0 would be safer than 1.0 (I don't oppose either, just think 2.0 is more likely to be accepted).
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971464#Comment_3971464
oh sure it wouldve had complaints, people cry about it even now, im just saying it wouldve been MUCH MORE HEALTHIER anti tunnelling meta because these are the only anti tunnelling perks you cant really weaponize, theyre almost purely defensive.
DS-UB combo wasnt useless if killer didnt tunnel cuz you could play incredibly aggressively with it and force killer into lose-lose situations. Before 6.1.0 that involved just doing gens in killer's face and jumping into locker when they headed in your direction, after 6.1.0 that was narrowed down to aggressive bodyblocking and taking aggro from the teammate.
That's really a general issue with most "anti tunnelling" perks. They are designed in such ######### way that they turn otherwise bad, incorrect and terrible plays into something you want to do because it is no longer a mistake. Running in killer`s face right after unhook was the thing that would win you dbd equivalent of darwin award but thanks to small pp combo, OTR, etc it was something you WANTED to do because killer would be at a ness loss if they committed, powered through or did literally anything that involved playing into the idea of not tunnelling.
As for MfT meta, I was playing shitton of singularity during that time and it was not pleasant. I felt like they removed weights from my legs when they nerfed the perk alongside fixing the haste addon (after it was made purple it didnt work for another month)
As for MfT meta, I was playing shitton of singularity during that time and it was not pleasant. I felt like they removed weights from my legs when they nerfed the perk
Would you say it could have been salvaged? Or was the nerf the only option?
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971295#Comment_3971295
it's not qol it was a massive buff and a monster reduction to skill expression
I don't think so, tbh.
Skill expression in DBD is macro-gameplay, not aim. Maybe for killers like Huntress or Deathslinger sure, but Singularity's camera aim was just a hindrance to those who play with a controller. The auto-aim was needed in his case.
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@TheGoon224 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971546#Comment_3971546
And the funniest part is that I would’ve been fine with the rework if it kept any of her identity intact, but it just doesn’t
Well friend, given my history with killer reworks I'd prefer if she didn't get one.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971540#Comment_3971540
I, for one, am happy I no longer have to run behind survivors for 5-10 seconds flicking my camera to bait DH every down.
Yeah, the perk did need a nerf.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971549#Comment_3971549
Ah. Apologies. But I think for similar reasons to what I mentioned, no attempts to balance her reworked design was solely because of potentially community backlash.
- Nobody likes original Skull Merchant because they were boring and stalled games out.
- Nobody liked the reworked design because it was deemed "too annoying" to play against.
- Nobody liked the rework concept because it was deemed "too far from the original design" for people to enjoy.
BHVR is put between a rock and a hard place.
Even if they reworked or buffed Skull Merchant it would not matter because people would hate their design solely as a result of negativity bias (not to say that all complaints are not unwarranted, but negativity bias is where a lot of their hate comes from, keep in mind this is coming from someone who hates Skull Merchant). The 3-Gen Skull Merchant Era has permanently tainted their reception and it will be held over their head for a really long time.
I do hope Skull Merchant does get buffed/reworked or something, as it stands they are the worst Killer in the game, their power is functionally awful and it hardly works half the time because her power has been bugged for literal years and has not been fixed.
I agree, my dear friend, that the reputation problem is complex.
Unfortunately, Skull Merchant had a problematic release (which I believe had more to do with the meta of the time than her actual power, but that is a discussion for another time) and that, as you've said, is something that many players won't forget anytime soon. Just like OP said, some people will always dislike her, regardless of what is done.
However, I do believe Skull Merchant 2.0, the reworked design, differs from the others. Because there was nothing wrong with her power, nothing that could cause a problem for the game. The negativity bias was responsible for the overwhelming majority of the hate towards this specific iteration of her and that, my friend, I believe gives us the answer we need.
A return to her first design is very unlikely to be accepted, even if 3 genning is now impossible. A full rework that deletes her identity is unacceptable. 2.0 is a compromise: it is fair, causes zero problems for the game and is enjoyable for SM players.
I strongly believe it is the best option.
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The Coldwind realm really needs adjustments.
Those maps have a severe lack of resources, there is barely anything to work with.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971507#Comment_3971507
That's what makes it feel more balanced. There's only so much you can do with the game without some really big decisions being made, so it's the best of a bad situation.
Yes, I agree, friend.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
The posted a rework concept. People responded to the rework concept, and it got scrapped.
To put it bluntly BHVR are still working on a rework but it's really hard for them when every iteration people hate and they have to return back to the drawing board.
I think what OP is asking, my friend, is why Skull Merchant 2.0 was never properly adjusted.
Why it went from the rework to remove the 3 gen thing straight to massive gutting instead of balance changes like most killers get.
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Yes, it is a terrible situation and I'm really glad this topic is getting a lot of attention in the last few days.
I strongly support a return to Skull Merchant 2.0 because I believe it was a flawless kit. The only reason people disconnected against her was because of the problematic release, it had nothing to do with her power. As long as people stayed in the game:
The match had absolutely zero problems.
She should have stayed that way. The nerf was unnecessary, and the rework is even more so.
Because the design previews, the two we had so far, were so terrible that it is hard to find words to describe it. They don't just look extremely unfun to play as and against, but also they completely erase her identity, which is unacceptable. Skull Merchant shouldn't become another "dashslop" killer, she shouldn't get a ranged M2, she shouldn't get a projectile attack.
The rework goes against the very reasons why people play SM in the first place. If they wanted a projectile killer, or dash, or ranged M2, they wouldn't have picked Skull Merchant in the first place.
I would prefer if she was reverted to 2.0 and adjusted from there, if needed. Best of both worlds, really: SM gets to be who she is, and returns to a state that was never problematic in the first place.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971506#Comment_3971506
If by "used to it," you mean "was forced to alter their entire playstyle to account for a perk that the survivor may or may not have," then yes.
Well, I actually mean they, myself included, knew to expect it. It wouldn't catch you off guard, and I don't think it was causing kill rates to drop substantially.
It wasn't fair though.