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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971104#Comment_3971104
That's very true. Camping and tunneling render it pretty unfun these days.
It i unfortunate when it happens, yes. But at least, with 8 survivors, it isn't always easy to target a specific one.
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Yeah, that was probably the best perk survivors still had back then. Overpowered, sure, but most killers were used to it, I'd say.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
I really hope the next 2v8 adds springtrap and ghoul
"Kaneki! They've already activated four generators! What the ######### are you doing?!?"
In all seriousness though, I would like for the next 2v8 to have Skull Merchant and Knight. Watch someone DC after getting claw trapped while getting chased by a guard.
Alternatively, Freddy and Dredge. Watch the game collapse trying to mix the Dream World with Nightfall.
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@R2k said:
Don't know about meta. I'm constantly running this build and my average kill rate is 3. You don't need meta to kill
Lightborn my beloved.
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@Deadman7600 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971453#Comment_3971453
As I said, it's just an opinion. we haven't seen the alternative therefore I have no evidence that 55% target wouldn't be better. I was purely just trying to rationalise part of why 60% is their chosen target. The other part may just be to make survivor more of a challenge. Although, I feel like if the game was balanced so that survivors were getting around 2 players out every time then the Killer would loose a lot of its bite.
I like 60% because its neither a guarantee of a 3k or a 2e but in the middle. Forgive me if I'm wrong but for a 3k to be guaranteed we'd need a 75% kill rate since each survivor is a quarter of the team (25%). At 60% we're actually closer to that 50% than the guaranteed 3K. In this, we see that the survivors still have a decent chance of escape purely looking at the raw numbers but the power role is still given the necessary wiggle room to be a threat.
However, the issue with just looking at a percentage like 60% and saying 'Its balanced correctly' is that the power role can kinda sway their chances if they're willing to play mean. This is why I make clear that it's just an opinion rn based in a few statistics and a horror film trope. Once anti-tunnel, anti-go next and anti-slug have been introduced properly in phase 2, then we'll properly see what needs changes imo and I will then develop an actual position beyond 'I think I like 60%'.
we haven't seen the alternative
We have… kinda.
For quite a long time, DBD was explicitly balanced around the desired outcome of 2 kills and 2 escapes, on average. I'm sure there are records of this out there.
However, eventually there was a concern that killers weren't dangerous enough, and changes were made to make them more lethal. 6.1.0 and many patches after that, basically.
What is really interesting though is the fact that, by the time patch 6.1.0 happened, survivors had already lost many of their strongest resources. There wasn't one specific overpowered perk or item that was drastically reducing the killer's lethality.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971408#Comment_3971408
we couldve had babysitter bloodrush meta but unfortunately bhvr chickened out and didnt nerf the alt options
And I'm willing to bet, my friend, that if we had gotten a Babysitter + Blood Rush meta, it would have had complaints.
Overall, most of these metas were poorly handled, at least the ones that could have been salvaged. Circle of Healing, for instance, is one that could have been adjusted differently. And the DS + UB combo was kinda useless if the killer didn't tunnel, which was the usual scenario back then due to BBQ.
The only one of those I didn't personally experience was Made For This. Wasn't playing much DBD at the time, so I genuinely don't know much about it. I know what the perk did, of course, but I am not sure how problematic (or not) it really was.
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@Amanova said:
Survivors cant have a "good" perks is in it? Then no one will buy Quentin hun, devs won't sacrifice money for such sweats like that person on video!
Survivors cant have a "good" perks is in it?
While I don't think it is the case with Scott's video here, generally speaking the survivor metas in DBD aren't liked.
It is very difficult, if not impossible, to find a survivor meta which the community genuinely liked. The meta being dominated by the original iterations of Decisive Strike was complained about, the DS + UB combo was complained about even in matches where it didn't have any use because the killer didn't tunnel or slug, Adrenaline was complained about even though it was not overpowered, Circle of Healing, Made For This, Windows of Opportunity, Dead Hard, Buckle Up and For The People, and others.
Some of these metas were alright, others were not and definitely had to be changed, but overall I don't think there ever was a state were the survivor meta was liked.
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Comp DBD is just a show for entertainment, it has no real impact in the game and it doesn't really mean anything.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971175#Comment_3971175
It was a massive part of his skill expression circle jerking over "mah macro!!1" when every single killer needs macro is just a stupid take
I don't think so, tbh. It just punished those who played with controllers, that is all it did.
The auto-aim was a good QoL improvement.
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Well friend, DBD will always have a meta. Mostly it is a matter of how fun each meta is. The current one is definitely getting stale.
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Pretty sure the incentives have been broken for a long time.
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Next month, if I recall correctly.
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Soon, I hope.
Generally speaking I am not a fan of reworks in DBD. I think many good things were ruined when they received reworks. But Forgotten Ruins needs one, this map is so bad.
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@HPhoenix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966246#Comment_3966246
Maybe after the first hook then, just to make it a tad bit fair? 🤔
HPhoenix!
Good to see ya, old friend! How are you?
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@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971104#Comment_3971104
It does't really matter anymore with the next 2v8. Survivor becomes filler entertainment while waiting for killer games.
Well, to be fair, they really needed to fix those queue times. We'll see if it was the right way to do it.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970984#Comment_3970984
Yeah, it's easily negligible. I always assume it's not going to work and if it does I'm going down anyway.
That's every 2v8 from now on as far as I know. 😭 Even so it tends to be more balanced than the base game in my experience. Still gets old fast though.
I think the problem with 2v8 is that the only good reason to play survivor in 2v8 is the BP bonus, meanwhile the killer role has extremely long queues and many killers are still unavailable.
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I don't think so.
Someone could get a fast heal with We'll Make It or Botany before the killer returns, but that doesn't mean the survivor they unhooked isn't going to be tunneled.
There can be scenarios where that happens, and OTR shouldn't deactivate then.
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I main Skull Merchant.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970894#Comment_3970894
☠️
Yeah, exactly. 😜 I need an incentive to play these days. Even during events, sometimes I have to tap out early if it's bad enough.
The fact that this doesn't progress the AFC mechanic is unbelievable. Vecna is right there.
The next event is 2v8, isn't it? Hopefully this one will be fun, the last one with Oni and Legion was miserable.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970788#Comment_3970788
Her original design was good the only thing that was plaguing it was 100 second cooldown televisions. that absolutely had to be changed, among a couple other buffs including longer invisibility and demanifestation pallet stun immunity. The 100 second cooldowns is really the only thing that made her D tier.
They could have just reduced the cooldown, it would have been better than two reworks.
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Not a "must run" perk, and I don't think it ever was, but it is very useful.
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@UnicornMedal said:
I'm definitely waiting for TWD. There's not a ton of reasons to play the game in between events or releases anymore imo, which is sad.
Well friend, you can get the "fun" and "interactive" gameplay that is engaging for both sides:
All jokes aside, I don't mind playing DBD in-between events. It is the regular gameplay we are all used to, it is alright.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970788#Comment_3970788
Exactly. They should have kept OG design with today’s buffs.
I don’t play her as much as I use to because her current kit is just boring. Tapes are free for survivors, you get 2 powers punished in 1 action by the survivor. She’s just boring now. I’ve tried to vocalize this feedback for over a year now to keep in the minds of the team.Hopefully one day again, they’ll make her more fun to play.
I’m not sure about how I feel about global condemn. On one hand, it fixes the issue where survivors dictate your power entirely. On the second hand, it was boring.
I enjoyed he first design again, there was nothing wrong with it, like I mentioned she just needed today’s buffs to go with it.Honestly, my friend, I think the complaints about her first design being too weak, which in turn caused the first rework to happen, were a consequence of the game getting too many anti-loop killers almost back-to-back.
Deathslinger, Pyramid Head, Twins, Nemesis, Cenobite, Artist. Blight and Trickster, dash and range respectively, were also released around that time. Too many killers who primarily focused on chases, rather than macro gameplay. So by the time Sadako is released, for all intents and purposes a M1 killer, some players may have thought her kit didn't do enough.
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I wouldn't mind if deep rift skins were added to the store, tbh. I am not a fan of exclusive cosmetics.
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Sadako is a killer that I genuinely don't understand why she got changed so much.
Her original design was fine as it was. A bit on the weaker side, yes, but not every killer needs to be Nurse or Blight. Sadako was okay.
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Haven't been getting that many DCs, tbh. Unless the killer is Ghoul.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
The thing thats tough to fix about her is people enjoyed playing 3 gen merchant, then they took that away so they played another way, people hated that too, so they nerfed her to the ground and now everyone that plays her is like "make her like she was before or you are taking away her identity" which just got hate anyway and any new things they come up with to be more interactive in a chase just turn out to not be liked either so how do they make the killer like she was before without being hated yet different enough to not be hated by the people playing her as well lol
Well, my friend, as you've said the reputation problem is, indeed, complex. Unfortunately, Skull Merchant had a problematic release (which I believe had more to do with the meta of the time than her actual power, but that is a discussion for another time) and that is something that many players won't forget anytime soon.
However, there is a caveat here: Skull Merchant 2.0 was disliked because of the release, not because of her power. But 3 genning was over, the problem solved. And many have acknowledged that in recent discussions.
I strongly believe bringing back her 2.0 iteration, exactly as it was, is the best option. Players will understand that her power was fine. It is, imho, much better than changing her identity and alienating dedicated SM mains.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970532#Comment_3970532
Yeah could 2020-2021 dbd game mode work just before all the map reworks.
Yeah, that would be fun!
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970548#Comment_3970548
More just people in here claiming they are welcoming all opinions, then when someone comes in saying they are excited you all can't accept someone is. At least that's how it comes across to me. It's been like this every thread I've tried to discuss my excitement for the rework.
So, that's just how I feel about people who fight the design previews, there is constructive criticism among points, but generally if anyone is excited it's downvoted and disagreed with lmao.
Literally all my friends are looking forward to her rework, and everytime they come back the ideas are better, so I'm sure by the time it happens (if it does at all with all this disagreement with them at all.)
Have some optimism lmaoI don't see how that is the case. This is a place for discussions, there are many players here and they all have different opinions. Disagreements happen, it is natural. But we're here to talk and that is what we have been doing. No one was insulted here, no one was offended here, the discussion is being kept civil.
Disagreements are okay. My Old Freddy campaign had disagreements, my stance that the Endgame Collapse is a bad mechanic had disagreements, my opinion that Wesker is not balanced had disagreements. But I've presented my point of view and those who disagreed presented theirs. That is why we are here.
Personally, I am not looking forward to the rework and I think the design previews weren't good. Both of our opinions are perfectly valid, we just happen to disagree.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970445#Comment_3970445
You'll still have the killer, she just won't be literally sauceless. They've been listening, but it's very clear you won't be getting the ones we've had before and rightfully so.
What I don't get about purists in these threads are you feel like the vocal minority who won't be happy regardless of how they rework/buff her.
They are in a difficult situation rn regarding her and I think they are taking the best path forward.It isn't the same thing though. While I do like the character herself (visuals, lore, design), the power is extremely important. I don't play SM just because I like the concept, I play SM because of what she does. I do not want to play a dash killer, I don't want to play a projectile killer, I don't like these kinds of characters. If she becomes one of those, then I will have lost my favorite character. For the second time.
Your second sentence here I do not understand. I have stated, more than once, that a full revert to her 2.0 is something I would support and be happy with. That, alone, already means I won't be satisfied regardless of what they do. If they give her something like the two design previews, if they erase her identity, then yes I won't like it, but this isn't a "damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario".
But I do not think they are taking the best path, quite the contrary. And I wanted to make my voice heard.
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@VibranToucan said:
Sorry, but no. Who is this supposed to appeal to? Like yeah, people who played the game for 9 years straight and are very nostalgic, but by now that is a very small part of the playerbase.
Do you know how these matches would go? "Oh the Survivor ran an infinite loop for 20 seconds and due to Brand New Parts all gens are done now." "Oh the hillbilly brought a red mori and killed me 10 seconds into the match."
I am sorry, but old mechanics would not work with current dbd. Iridescent items were balanced by their rarity. That is not the case anymore with the huge increases in BP. A lot of the fun came from the fact that people didn't know what they were doing. DBD has become to optimised for something like this.
To be fair, it depends on which version of the game would be chosen for a classic modifier. There are plenty of options.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970450#Comment_3970450
what nerfs did survivor side get?
Over the years? Plenty.
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Same, actually. Haddonfield and Dead Dawg 💀
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970406#Comment_3970406
Understandable, but having cute little helper would be cool.
I think there are things it could work and most people are happy.It depends on what it does, tbh. If the buddy drone has the projectile as seen in the last design preview, then I really don't want it. But if it is responsible for the global detection, then I agree it could be fun.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970423#Comment_3970423
Honestly though, anything is better than her current iteration and state, it's one dimensional and it's a shame that it is. I think they could easily retain the trap playstyle focusing more on Control/information, while giving her new tools and lethality at the same time.
Current Freddy is a great rework IMO, so if it's anything in the direction like that, I think it'll make both sides happy potentially.
I really would like to play her more and the fantasy they are going down with the AMA statement I'm looking forward to the next preview, using all sorts of gadgets to aid in pursuing survivors sounds much more predator like, how I imagined her to be like when she was originally announced.
Purists are always gonna be upset in some way and it's understandable, you liked how strong the OG was with little effort into the gameplay, I personally want more involvement from killers I play.Truth be told, I would rather have a weak killer that I enjoy, instead of a strong killer that I despise.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
I'm looking forward to the upcoming changes, to play as and against, love how involved with the community they are getting in regards to her.
Well, my friend, I can tell ya that what I'm looking forward to is the next design preview.
I really don't want to go through another Freddy situation, it was awful enough the first time. I need her to keep her identity, otherwise it will be the second time I lose my favorite character. I'm tired, boss.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
I think for Skull merchant to be the real intel killer she needs a form of non-lethal map mobility, because what's the point of knowing where survivors are, if it takes half a generator to get there.
I also think that skull merchants DESERVE to have a rework in which they can continue "lazertagging" and using their rotation flicking skills that they have build over the many months of play with her. That would imo be the ideal world
But I am definitely happy with her getting more into chase powers, The passive injures made her too easy, which made her problematic at lower levels. It should require skillHonestly, friend, the ideal option in my opinion would be a revert.
Ideally, back to version 2.0, which fixed the problems the original design had. The way I see it, you don't have to go any further than that.
However, if that doesn't happen, then at the very least an effort should be made to preserve her identity. The first two design previews didn't do that. I hope the third one doesn't make the same mistake.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I agree 💯 for sure!
I want the buddy drone to stay BUT it needs to do something else entirely. No daahing, no projectile stuff. It can be used as an “Aid” for her traps or intel perhaps.
That's pretty much it, my friend. It is central to keeping her identity intact.
@TheGoon224 said:
I still don’t understand why they are turning her into a mix between a trap and a range killer, isn’t the whole point that she wants to make her kills close and personal? turning her into a ranged killer doesn’t really emphasize that.
Exactly!
And the worst thing, my friend, is that we already have projectile killers. If SM players wanted a projectile killer, they would have chosen someone else.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970354#Comment_3970354
As I said, there are multiple ways how to approach it.
Some of them would be actually quite cool imo, especially the one where you can command it to do simple actions, or boost other drone…
But hey, M2 is the easiest thing they can do with it, so that will most likely be it, but hey maybe they suprise us with something interesting.
Just don't let it be anything with AI, or camera control…Fair point, my friend.
Personally, I don't want dashes, M2 ranged, projectile, AI or camera control.
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@LordGlint said:
Wondering if the event abilities messed with MMR at all. I know alot of killers injure ppl pretty easily. Combine that with the pallet break power and you get alot of easy downs. I was also able to use alot stronger addons than normal since the BPs every match made them easy to replace.
I thought event queues actually prevented MMR gains / losses.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970278#Comment_3970278
the queues are decent again. I'm waiting a minute tops
Yep, queue times really did improve after the event ended, now that everyone is back to the regular queue.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970354#Comment_3970354
I do agree with you for sure... but part of me feels like we're a minority trying to beat back an army of flame throwers, with only thimbles to draw water...
I have a feeling that trying to fight for old merchant will land on deaf ears... but at least if we throw a hat in the ring and roll with BHVRs changes on new Skull Merchant, we might at least keep some of the killer we had 😔
Well, friend, nothing I haven't experienced before.
This struggle for a character, the helplessness of feeling like what you're saying is being ignored, this feeling is something I am very, very familiar with.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
As long as they don’t make her another “projectile” killer I am happy. She needs to stay as a Trap Based killer with her Stealth and Intel.
Drones need to scan you, when they do you get a claw trap. Intel only, no injuries. I’d be happy to see basekit dissolution with claw traps again.Hopefully they keep that global scan ability they talked about. Sounds cool.
Honestly, my friend, that would be acceptable, imho.
No dash, no ranged M2. Intel drones and global detection. If that was the rework, I'd continue playing her, yes.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970247#Comment_3970247
Well, I simply try to think of it how I would handle the rework to be succesful.
Passive lethality will never be accepted by survivors in Skully rework. It is what it is, rather than trying to fight it, It's better trying to figure out how to make it work for her.
Drone buddy is hard to tell what they think about it. I just don't want it to be controlled, or any difficult AI pathing. They are just not good at those and it never worked in past. Knight, Twins, Houndmaster, Nemesis (zombies)
What could work is either some simple M2 attack, which would not be liked by Skully mains, but would work…
Alternative would be to make it work passively simply whenever you are near claw trapped survivor, or if you hit claw trapped survivor. Hard to say what it could do, but definetly needs to be something simple.
It could also be something completely different and he would just help you during the game with other actions like breaking pallet/gens.
He could also on command "boost" other drone and give them additional effect…Drone buddy can definetly work, especially if they give it some fun animations. We have seen this concept in so many games.
I think making her drones mostly information based is only way how to make the rework work for survivors… Now it's just a question how to handle rest of her kit, so she is still viable.What could work is either some simple M2 attack, which would not be liked by Skully mains, but would work…
That I believe is an issue, my friend.
Because a killer rework should always prioritize those who play that killer, as they are the ones who spend time, money and bloodpoints on the character. They keep the killer alive. Something that would displease her mains shouldn't be included and, in this case, it is the projectile.
If SM players wanted a projectile, they would go play another character.
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@SoGo said:
I sincerely hope history won't repeat with your favorite killer.
Currently, I have no motivation to buy her aside fro perks, and even then it's mostly Leverage that interests me.
So, I hope they can listen to the community well.
Thank you friend, I really hope we can avoid a terrible fate this time. Losing my favorite character once was already bad enough.
At least SM has a dedicated group of mains, myself included now, who can leave feedback and share their thoughts on her future designs.
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Well, friend, it is up to you.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970060#Comment_3970060
Feels like Opposite Day, but instead of killers cherry picking because items, prestiges, or ranks, it’s survivors carting lobbies over perks. I already know. It’s a great idea in theory but we’re all about to spend a significant amount of time in lobby. In a perfect world we can have this as just useful information. I see it causing more problems in the end though over preconceived notions than actually its intended use. So much dodging all around is about to happen.
Yep, I am pretty sure that will happen.
Some players will lobby dodge the moment they see a perk they don't approve of. It is unfortunate, but it will happen.
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@pigslittlepet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970032#Comment_3970032
that's all i want. to preserve who she is. in the end do i want her to be strong? yes. but i'm not willing to sacrifice her for it. if she has to stay weak to keep her style of play then i would rather play a d tier character now then some A tier version of her with a power that has nothing to do with her current kit.
Well said, friend, I have no disagreements.
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Yeah, sure.