Gandor
Gandor
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200380#Comment_3200380
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200741#Comment_3200741
'Most' is misleading here.
See - the way this game works makes killer very intuitive initially whilst the survivor role takes a bit longer to understand, as it's a team role versus a solo role.
This means that, for very new players (who will make up a lot of this stat), kill rates are going to be massively inflated. It's the same reason that Cenobite and Pig have such high kill rates and Nurse is, by these same numbers, the weakest killer in the game.
It's only 'worrisome' if you think this game should be balanced around brand new survivors, which would be absurd.
But that is false argument as well. Most gamed copy bell curve - there are very few experts, but also very few beginners. So the avarage player creates all the statistics... If you get killrate somewhere within 50%+-5%, you can say X extreme MMR is pulling all the stats. 11% is way too much - it means stats are normed around killers winning the games - which might not be the case in some specific MMR. That's how statistics work
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Styptic is not as strong as killers view it. It takes more than second to apply it. It killed me way too many times. And even if I successfully apply it - a little bit observant killer just counts to 5 and smacks me. So it gives net benefit of 4s immunity that is very well telegraphed once in a match if not already bleeding. Considering facecamp bubbas exist and this thing being the only stuff that allows you to save, it's not that unbalanced.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200380#Comment_3200380
Why would people ragequitting be factored in? Of course that will throw the match result into killer favor. The issue is the nonstop immature suiciding on hook is factored in because there’s no easy way to count that out. Which also throws a game.
I am pointing out that 61% is very worrisome. It's global stats inside MMR system 61% should not be sustainable in "balanced" MMR (where under slight simplification 1 win and 1 loose results in 0 MMR change). It would require constant and large stream of new players.
61% means the game is currently broken
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@SuzuKR said:
ITT: Why a statistics class should be required in education
I have statistics. 61% is VERY worrisome. It means most of the survivors are really suffering. Taking into account (bad, but still present) MMR, this means that killers are climbing higher and higher with abnormal rate - suggesting something is really wrong with the game for 80% (bell curve) of players.
There could have been an alternative theory why it isn't so bad - and that would be if small number of people could pull the data very significantly. But that is not possible in DBD. There is no match result with -50 killed players. Or -50 rescued. If MMR is (loosly) balanced around 50% (kill 2 and your MMR does not change) but you still get 61% killrate, that means that (on avarage - different MMR can have different experience, but it still averages out somewhere else) killers get more than 1 free win that they shouldn't have been given every 10 games they play.
Taking into consideration that BHVR does not count statistics when someone DC's (as they stated before) - and people complain about DC's all the time... That's total terror and I truly believe some people that say the game is no longer playable.
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@FinestFantasyVI said:
The only time I actually camp is when Im faced with a sweaty swf bully squad who thows me in a heavily survivor sided map. And I get bodied by those guys sometimes because well if its obvious by my avatar, I play Trickster. So not someone who is even meant to camp. When gens fly and people click and tbag me. You bet Im gonna camp the fck out of that toxic survivor and hit them on hook. If they make me miserable, I make them.
Otherwise, camping to me is useless and I want to make a fun game for both survivor and killer, the best matches after all are those that are thrilling and close where the game can go any way. Its never fun if one side stomps the other. Thats why I dont want to play the meta killers like Nurse or Blight or even a happy camper like Bubba
trickster is arguably best camper in whole game. Especially in basement. Being able to take 4-5 health states before whole squad get's out of basement is something only bubba can do (but he can still crash or overheat with his M2). And if you get main event in said basement during rescue attempt... Well. GG!
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@D4RK1 said:
So I want to start this post out by saying that killing the players is certainly a very important objective to the killer, but at a certain point when the game does not discourage, and in fact ENCOURAGES it, Facecamping and Tunneling, the Devs are essentially saying that not playing the game is a legitimate way of playing the game. I also want to say that I'm a killer main and honestly, I think I dislike playing survivor BECAUSE of the relatively high prospect of facing a facecamper/tunneler.
Now let me get one thing straight, Tunneling and Camping, sometimes even Facecamping, shouldn't be completely stopped as sometimes it is the only objective the killer has that is really productive. Like when the Gen count is low/the exit gates are powered, in which case you can't really blame a killer for camping at this point. However, facecamping and tunneling at the start of a game usually means that one survivor will not get to play the game, and another will likely soon follow. What's worse is that if a team isn't fully coordinated in attempting to assist the camped survivor (which is VERY likely in solo queue), then the Survivors are very unlikely to even escape.
There are several excuses I've heard about combatting this, but honestly I feel like the majority of them are elitist:
- Get Good? I mean sure, but you don't get good right off the bat and when you're trying to get good and a killer who is just average can just facecamp you and get more than triple the BP you do, it kinda makes you not want to play anymore are you also saying that Solo Queue SHOULD expose you to this toxic behavior? If so, then why not just remove solo queue or add VC for Survivors in-game?
- Use anti camping/tunneling perks? Ok, well this assumes that someone has the characters and has them prestiged to actually use perks like Reassurance/Decisive Strike, but that means you're down one perk and the base game is still saying it's ok to just facecamp and tunnel.
- How can you not just pop all 5 gens while 1 person is being camped? I mean i guess from a competition point of view this is a good argument, but I want to point out that 1 person just doesn't get to play the game and that the survivors overall get less blood points as they'll only be receiving Survival and Objective points since chases won't really be a thing and if you get any in boldness, that means you're near the hook that is being camped which probably means you're not doing a gen.
- Well the killer isn't getting enough pips to Stage Up so no problem! Yes, but the Survivors are probably losing Pips for their stages and being new at the game shouldn't mean your progress to Survivor grades should be hindered just on the whim of some random person who decides they don't want the Survivors to have fun.
Here are the changes I propose to combat this relatively big problem:
- Kindred should be baseline and all Survivors should be able to make use of it without requiring a Perk Slot.
- Unhooking should not have a timer, once unhooking a survivor is forced to complete the unhook. Additionally, Survivors cannot be grabbed from an unhook, but can still be interrupted specifically if they are Injured or Deeply Wounded and take a hit (no I do not mean put into the Dying state)
- If a Survivor is hooked, then the aura of the furthest Survivor that has not been hooked at all, is revealed to the killer for 10 seconds.
- If a Survivor dies on hook before any other combination of survivors have a total of 2 hooks (this means it can be another Survivor with 2 hooks as well), then all Survivors gain a 150% Blood Point bonus for the match and the killer takes a 75% Blood Point penalty for the match. Additionally, no matter how the Survivors do, they cannot lose any pips for Stages this match and the Survivor will automatically lose a pip for Killer stages this match. This does not apply if the Survivor on hook attempts to unhook themselves more than Once and/or doesn't succeed at least 3 skill checks during Struggle phase. This effect also does not apply if there are 2 or less Gens required to be completed to power doors, if doors are powered, or if doors are open.
- Each time a killer hooks a Survivor, if the Survivor has the least number of hooks or is tied for the least number of hooks amongst all Survivors, the killer gains a +25% stacking bonus to Blood Points. This bonus should also affect the killer's points towards gaining Killer Stages as this type of behavior should be rewarded.
- If a killer remains within 15 feet of a specific Hooked Survivor (timer resets if the survivor is unhooked then hooked again and each hooked Survivor should have their own timer) for a total of 30 seconds, the killer gains a stacking -25% Blood Point penalty and the hooked survivor gains a stacking +25% Blood Point bonus. Survivors that gain this bonus should then be immune to losing a Survivor Stage pip for the match. A killer that takes this penalty 3 or more times in a match should automatically lose a Killer Stage pip for the match. If the killer is in chase for at least 5 seconds, this timer ceases to count down for all hooked survivors until the chase ends and the time continues to be paused for 5 seconds after the chase ends, though if the chase resumes or a new chase is started during this 5 second interval, the timer continues to be paused. This effect also does not apply if there are 2 or less Gens required to be completed to power doors, if doors are powered, or if doors are open.
Personally I believe that these are all very fair changes as the majority of them do not change the game too much. The aura reading simply makes it so newer players and players not on comms just have a bit of that edge and encourages healthy behavior from survivors (making it easier to unhook and know when to unhook). On the killer side, it assists with specifically not tunneling, but not much else and has no effect once each survivor has been hooked at least once. The majority of my suggestions are mainly aimed at Bloodpoint gain and Stages because honestly that is the most rewarding part of the game when doing well and honestly I just hate the fact that a killer who does minimal work by facecamping can double or triple the number of blood points of survivors who actually play the game well and even escape.
Aura reading is quite strong. I would opt for something like a killer instinct, but slower (survivors "ping" there position once every let's say 3-5s). It will still notify of general position. But it will not provide detailed information (something even regular SWF don't have as there exists an information loss when speaking).
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6 players. Nice! I saw 2 killers in game, but never more then 5 players
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@TDtheDoc said:
That doesn’t answer my questions though,are those camping and tunneling situations?Sincerely though ty for not being rude in reply.I might be opinionated but I try to be civil and not name calling or be rude.
You are referring to my statement "every killer plays like that". It was obviously embellishment. I did not presume you would take it literally. As I provided my stats for last 3
gamesdays, there were 3 killers that did not camp or tunnel. I don't camp or tunnel when playing killer (but everything goes at endgame). But other 17 did at least one of those 2. (and again - my numbers might not be precise - I didn't really count them and wrote them down. Camping/tunneling is so prevalent, that I see no reason to keep exact statistics about it - I just note that I had 0 games without camping or tunneling on monday and today.It came so far, the reinsurance - perk that does absolutely nothing (apart taking an extra perk slot+giving you possibility to play 3v1 instead of 4v1 for limited time) against killers that don't camp or tunnel - and is kind-of hard to execute especially in soloQ has stronger place in my build then any exhaustion perk. Because there is higher possibility of me using that perk, then using exhaustion (because e.g. fearmonger and because balanced landing can't be used in shelter woods - not counting basement steps).
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Mayers is unfair in a way, that chances of you escaping are determined by the weakest teammate in your team (well it's unfair only if it is not you). The addons DO have counterplay. Usually meyers with tombstone+infinite T3 is able to pop said T3 at last 1-2 gens. If we are lucky, nobody gets caught. If we are less lucky, one person will go to hook and it will be probably too easy for him to camp him out to death (3 out). If we really screwed up, we loose (4K).
But that is miles better and more enjoyable then getting any random range-addon starstruct+agitation nurse. Mayers should be changed because it feels unfair. But it's such a low priority compared to all the other problems in game.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198926#Comment_3198926
Are you seriously trying to compare a cheat that allowed seeing over loops to Shadowborn???
Yes I am. Especially on blight, nurse and oni. Because it works the same. Everyone who quickly needs to see his target benefits from this...
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@TDtheDoc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199258#Comment_3199258
What if the survivor is just waiting to pounce the hook save right in front of the killer as soon as he hooks?Should killer have to run away?If survivor just of the hook wants to body block with bt and killer hits them twice is that tunneling?If survivors are just lurking around hook Ian’s killer chases them is that camping?I really want to play by survivors rule book for killers do explain those to me please.
No. I never do that. My teammates most of the time don't do that. My SWF if I play with then definitely don't do that. Pre-patch that would be called farming. Post patch people don't do that if not totally necessary, because it allows easier tunneling.
If your survivors do that, you are in low elo.
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@TDtheDoc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198868#Comment_3198868
Oh Every Killer plays like that because you have played against every person who has ever played killer.Or maybe like I said before survivors definition of tunneling and camping are so broad that everything is considered camping and tunneling.
Camping is when killer stops patroling gens after unhook and never goes further away then 20m for gen - so trying to get chase by staying at survivor instead of finding one.
Tunneling is when killer goes for unhook and ignores everyone else. If I block his path, he smacks me once so that I loose collision and acts as if I don't exist any more.
There is no camp or tunnel at endgame, because killer has no other objective then securing a kill.
Under these conditions - on monday 100% of games were camp or tunnel or both. On tuesday two thirds of games. Today all of them. Altogether about 17/20 (most of them soloQ) games were tunnel or camp. 61% killrate, patch 6.1 buffing all the killers, but they need to camp/tunnel even more then before this patch...
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@ProfSinful said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198165#Comment_3198165
You've clearly never played survivor at a high mmr, because finding totems takes less than 30 seconds once you understand their spawn logic.
I agree it does not take minutes. But consider all the timing - 20s to find boon, 14-28s to actually boon and 32s to heal. Or 30s traveling over the map injured spreading all the scratchmarks and 32s heal (on possibly well-known place for killer that is already expecting you. And I am talking about boon with best value according to everyone). + You have risk of shattered hope, someone cleansing all the totems (inner healing or overzelaous) or killer running hex build (everyone is cleansing everything and killer actively tries to interupt you).
Now compare that to medkit, ally healing you or even safety of selfcare (possibly with botany). In worst case compare it to inner healing if you want to cleanse all totems (but that is risky move on it's own).
Boons are just different way to heal. I don't think it's even good way - absolutely not the best way to heal.
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@mizark3 said:
The reason for the basekit FOV is to simulate how Predators have more narrowed vision in comparison to Prey with greater angles. I am typically all for accessibility, especially for hard of hearing/deaf to show things that you would be able to hear. (Also because that should show up even when the audio is bugged, as it frequently is.) However with more niche issues should people with emetophobia (or the fear of vomiting) be able to hard ban Plague from showing up in their matches? (Although I think people should be able to ban 1 killer per 5 released but that is besides the point.)
I do not suffer from from this particular malady, but from the little research I did put in googling, anything near 90 degrees the brain will accept as "normal". From the wiki it appears the default FOV for killer is 87 degrees, which to me is more than close enough for standard accessibility attempts, even when using the stylized limited FOV for effect. Plenty of people have issues with extended screen time, and I believe this is more likely the culprit for most people. The 20/20/20 eye rule is quite helpful (even if I neglect to use it enough myself). For those unaware the 20/20/20 eye rule is every 20 minutes (or one DBD match combined with queue times), take 20 seconds to look at something 20 feet away. Hopefully most people have a window or long enough hallway to help them in that regard.
I will say some maps perform better in different qualities. (Most better to find people on low, but a few are strangely easier on ultra.) Also Ormond has an issue with scratch marks just not appearing or being so faint to not be visible. Overall however I think an FOV slider would be far too abused by the advantage it would give, which by no means is minor.
Agreed. I had heared a loooong discussion why stretched res is ok and it does not provide any advantage. Until devs changed it and saw the resulting play...
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@TDtheDoc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198217#Comment_3198217
It seems every post by a survivor is about camping and tunneling,the discussion could be about what outfit do you like on Feng and the first survivor post will be about camping and tunneling.It’s brought up soo much in every post that it’s now irrelevant.It’s just a meaningless phrase.
It might be because it's a serious issue that spoils the game. Or that it's unfair and every killer playes like that. Or that the game has become super unfair recently and many survivor-mains felt they need to voice there opinion. Pick your choise
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198688#Comment_3198688
Would the perk even be overpowered if it had no range limit at all? Just block all vaults for a time after every gen.
Real strong. Possibly meta perk. But not OP
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let's agree to disagree then
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which one with enough practice is never an issue? I would argue that placement can be learned. Timing can be practiced, but some people will never get it right always...
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
Hi all,
I think with the 6.1 changes it's time to look at STBFL losing stacks on m2 (though this is not the fix I'm asking for just an example), it's enabling the camping situation more than it should, the perk is fine how it is it just doesn't really have a great deal of counterplay on the likes of nemesis as one example.
I feel like the perk is in a really good spot right now and the obsession counterplay to it should be brought in line with the likes of play with your food.
I'm conflicted as STBFL is in a great spot, as it serves its purpose, but its ability to enable camping is an issue it makes it nigh impossible to hook trade, and I feel is one of the main reasons built in BT isn't doing a great job.
What are your opinions on STBFL? Do you feel it's an issue? I'd love to hear peoples thoughts
The only issue I have with this perk is, that once it's fully stacked, it's impossible to unhook facecamper if obsession is not around. Should we make unhooking a little quicker (give enough time to unhook after taking hit from fully-stacked STBFL) I have 0 beef with this perk.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198541#Comment_3198541
But that wouldn't even change most of his skilful aspects. You still need to predict and read survivors correctly, you still need to herd them into it, you still know that that trap placement was good. Why should a Trapper be punished for successfully predicting a survivors movement, but then be punished because the trap was slightly off? Or because the survivor decided to run a little bit wide and unknowingly just avoid it? You spent so much time collecting that trap, placing it, and then they accidently walk past it.
He would still have one of the highest skill ceilings it just wouldn't feel like you were cheated out of a trap because the survivor managed to slip through it. Honestly I think this would actually increase his skill ceiling as you can now place them in areas that you couldn't previously catch survivors, opening up more options for trap placement.
Making his traps less visible would be an okay change, but it wouldn't really help him out that much or raise his skill ceiling at all. Good survivors would still notice them. And if you make them too transparent, then THAT would lower his skill ceiling as you can just place them anywhere. It's a good change, but isn't going to make much of a difference. He still would suck, just a little less on Eyrie.
He needs a TON of changes. These 2 changes probably wouldn't even make much stronger, except against lower MMR survivors. Like letting him start with all of his traps or let him pick them up from lockers. Or even just making them spawn closer to the centre of the map.
well I disagree. Same way as survivor can discreetly follow a chase for whole duration, hide behind rocks, make sure he is not seen all the time and guessing correctly which way the killer will look when picking up survivor only to screw up timing. It's exactly the same thing. And I still thing that precision should be part of this game.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198279#Comment_3198279
Just to clarify deep wounds does go down if you vault or drop a pallet though. So if you’re in a long chase and doing a lot of vaults and pallet drops you can definitely go down on the mend bar and even potentially die mid chase from it (I’ve actually killed people that way with Legion.)
wow. That must have been some insanely long chase O.O can you provide an estimate how long it could have been? For all I know this happens only if survivor stands on one spot waiting for killer to do something. I never even noticed it going down on vaults - maybe it's just slow/mid vault that do that? (and dropping pallets take so little of it)
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@WesCravenFan said:
There already is a penalty. The unhooked survivor gets endurance AND a speed boost.
the short endurance works just as a countermeasure for unhooked survivor to be able to do anything in the match (even start being in the chase) so this part (I am not talking about exact length) is mandatory. 7% haste while endurance is active was devs way how to make killers who don't care rather go for unhooker then for the person right off the hook. But having 7% haste while in chase active until survivor gets into dying state or conspicuous action was done (and I would add getting healed by somebody else) would actually make it basekit anti-tunneling mechanics.
It would be very legitimate reason why it makes more sense to go for rescuer instead of tunnel (that 2,8m net distance between those 2 survivors is not a real reason). And I would add it would be first good reason for it.
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The perk is already plenty strong. It already indicates very high possibility of face/proxy camper, because it provides free 120s slowdown. I don't think this perk should be buffed any more - it's already not really healthy for the game
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198410#Comment_3198410
Just to clarify it would be the killer dropping a single pallet, not the survivors. So the killer would get the Interaction prompt when they’re at an undropped pallet and if they interact with it the pallet gets dropped or destroyed and the perk is disabled. Typically I imagine this would mean the killer might go to something like shack, for instance, and get rid of that pallet at the first opportunity.
This perk could be really strong on not worth at all depending on the map. On one hand you have shelter woods and on the other you have the game. But overall - if the cooldown is high enough (I am not willing to even guess the number), then it could potentially work.
I am pretty sure that I would hate the perk with passion (I don't use WoO and rely on pallets by map knowledge and generally making note of where was the killer last), but it shouldn't be bad perk overall (one less generator slowdown perk I guess).
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@dugman said:
I’m not clear on the specifics of your suggestion. Survivors already get a 7% speed boost when they get unhooked to give them time to get away from the killer and punish killers who just chase them right off the hook. Are you suggesting that 7% boost should last until that survivor does a Conspicuous action?
Now that I think about it... Permanent 7% haste is functionality almost identical to killer speed nerf by 5%. So effectively I am suggesting this. Now that I think about it. It no longer looks like such a great idea :) even if that 7% boost (while in chase) would make sense against tunneling killer even without any time limit (I can't think of a way how to abuse it without being in a huge risk for survivor).
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198483#Comment_3198483
No need to be rude.
So what if those things need perfect timing? How does that change the fact that Trapper is a terrible killer? Why should one of the weakest killers in the game be punished so harshly simply because the trap was one pixel to far to the left?
If increasing the trap hitbox is too much, then maybe instead make it so if a survivor can't step in it, neither can the Trapper?
Sorry. I did not want to be rude. You are right. My apologies.
The reason why trapper traps should be "perfectly" placed is because the game should have some skill expression. For the same reason nobody argues for flashlight saves to work during pick up animation. If it was too easy, there would be no skill in it (be it flashlight saves or trapper's trap placement). And it's OK the way it is. Because I am rather old and not the best with timing, I can't use flashlights or DS or DH reliably (and it's OK that way). It provides opportunity for better players to be actually better.
But I agree with you, that trapper is one of those weaker killers and he should get some buff. But lowering his skill ceiling is not the buff I had in mind. Better buffs are those, that provide new opportunities to express skill, that are not possible without the buff - e.g. ability to place traps on some spots, that would not be possible without making the traps translucent (because everyone would see them right away).
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@ihateboons said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198470#Comment_3198470
Shattered Hope to destroy totems instead of snuffing them, for obvious reasons. Boon totems are supposed to be just as easy to get rid of as Hex perks, except for most Hex perks unless you have that supportive perk, are gone once cleansed. You can reboon until there's no more totems. That was and still is the biggest issue for Killer's running into Boons.
So instead of Nerfing Boons more, Shattered Hope is basekit. There's no Killer perk to change, so its a simple fix. The perk i'm going to suggest has a built in one time 'pentimento-esq' ability. That way only a max of 4 totems can be rebuilt by survivors to Boon in case the Killer gets stomp happy. This way, Survivor's can't reboon the same totem over and over again, gives counterplay for both sides, and adds more variable builds.
It doesn't work. Boons are loud. Boons are very visible. Boons take time to find totem and time to actually boon. Only after these things can the boon start to be useful. Also survivors can't defend boons.
In comparison hex is already lit when the match starts. Hex gives much higher value than any boon in existence while it's standing. Hex takes a lot of time (considering that killer might want to defend it) to cleanse. Hex is much more quiet and makes much less noise. Hex works on whole map instead of some area.
These are the reasons that boons can be reapplied on same totem. If you want to make boons 1-time usage, you are providing the ultimate nerf to them. I seriously doubt anyone would use boons even if you created new perk that would allow applying 1 boon 2 times on a same spot. It takes a lot of games that I see any other boon but CoH in my game anyway (and it's exponential or shadow step WITH CoH. I have never seen dark theory in my games ever).
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@dugman said:
I don’t know about the size, but I would like to see his traps be translucent so they are harder to spot regardless of what map he’s on. Right now his traps are ridiculously easy to see on some maps and hard to see on others.
Interesting idea. I mean - I would not go with transparency, but there are maps that have a lot of one color. Maybe if traps were yellow in eerie of crows, green in whole autoheaven and gray in the game (same kind of logic for all the other maps) then it would make sense.
But make the colors similar to environment - not exactly the same color please.
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@Jago said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198401#Comment_3198401
@Milo & @Gandor sometimes to break a chase you have to crouch / walk to create spaces of no scratch marks area; break line of sight or create confusion.
I don't call that "screwing up". Maybe if we had a 10 min chase and at one point I go down because I had 5% mend remaining, OK fine I guess.
But here I was 60% and had no option but keep running like a headless chicken, hoping to find my team mate to mend me ? No. I don't call that balanced. Snap out action should prioritize mend OR PAUSE the mending action.
I can upload the clip that made me realize this was a flaw, and you'll see no mistakes on my end.
These 2 status have not be thought to work together, and that's my position.
Believe me. I am survivor main that playes killer less then I should. Doctor is already on the weaker side. Snap out functionality is designed as slowdown. You never NEED to walk so much. You can run in circles if you need to stay on 1 spot. Loosing scratchmarks without any perk (shadowstep or dance with me) should be required only if you flash blinded killer and try to loose him - which should not happen more then 1 or 2 times per chase (the need to loose scratchmarks) and you have enough time for that.
Overall. I think it's part of his power that is already quite weak (or rather slow at getting downs) compared to under killers. So I disagree with it being unfair or in need of change.
But sure. Maybe you play the game so differently, that I overlooked some aspect. If so, provide me the details. I can't think of anything where this would be so bad, that it needs a change (more so, that we should first focus on really unfair things first. I don't see this being one of them)
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@BlightedDolphin said:
It's so annoying that if a trap isn't placed perfectly a survivor can just walk right past it but Trapper is too chunky to get past it.
Please increase the size of them so that they actually feel like bear traps and not kitten traps.
Do I smell skill diff? Survivor's flashlight need perfect timing. DH needs perfect timing. Stuning with pallet (especially pallet stun when killer picks up survivor inside pallet - you know that vanishing drop pallet prompt) needs perfect timing. Trapper's trap should not need perfect placement.... Hmmm
I mean - of all the things that trapper should be buffed with - bear trap size is NOT one of those.
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@KerJuice said:
Old Pop, Old Ruin, AND ESPECIALLY Old Undying were fine, and should’ve never been nerfed/reworked IMO. Waaay better than what we have today. As much as I hated going against the old versions of Pop & Undying, they were at least counter-able if you knew what you were doing. It was solo que that made that a nightmare. OMG i just realized something, imagine if today’s entitled ragequitting players had to deal with those 3 beasts in their hey day?? Their heads would explode from salty tears.
AFAIK it's killers who dominate this forum with requests to nerf survivors and buff killers over and over again to the point of 61%.
If I remember correctly, the game used to have literal infinites. Hooks could have been sabotaged forever and maps had much more resources for survivors....
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@ihateboons said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198405#Comment_3198405
Its situational actually.
My name is a meme. I'm a Survivor main.
You get the option to Snuff or Extinguish when using Shattered Hope.
It should be basekeit, especially with some of the perk suggestions i'm working on(ie: Survivor perk allowing them to piece a Dull totem back together)
This means you can't just willy nilly face blast totems everytime they get blessed, because say you have NOED. And you just clapped 4 totems. They Boon the 5th. You have to extinguish that boon before the EGC, instead of just stomping it out of existence.
Ok. That would actually work. But it would not fix the underlying issue - killers want to be able to destroy booned totem so that survivors can't use boon on that spot ever again.
If survivors were able to recreate destoryed totem, then they would be able to boon that same spot again. What would be the reason to have shattered hope then? Also you are now buffing inner healing a lot (and also pentimento - which is indirectly buffed twice with these changes)
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If the killer wants to win (via kills) then getting one member out of the game is good because of how efficient survivors are.
That's why I already wrote that it's cheap tactics with huge benefit. And again - the game should not have something cheap that gives you a lot. So make tunneling expensive (hard to do) - or make it low benefit (keeping survivor alive in some way anyway - but I don't like this kind of adjustment).
but then we have a perk that negates this penalty. So should killers also get a perk like that?
it does not even fully negate it. And grouping on 1 generator has multiple negatives (like plague, legion, ...). Also killers have perk that negates this perk (discordance). But sure. Killer can get new perk that works a little like proof-thyself - equipping this perk would make you run faster by 5% when tunneling (but from the new smaller base number => so it would not be even fully negated). No problem with that. Net result is that killer still has 1 less perk to run just for tunneling (making tunneling at least a bit more expensive).
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198175#Comment_3198175
Force dropping of multiple pallets would be OP, I’m skeptical forced dropping of a single pallet per game would be problematic though.
if this perk would force single survivor to drop single pallet as soon as he runs over it, then it's underwhelming perk. I agree with that one. If the perk has some reasonable cooldown (say even 1 minute), then it's VERY strong. On some killers more then on others (I think it would be OK perk against clown, but really OP against huntress).
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@ihateboons said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198036#Comment_3198036
Shattered Hope should be base kit. Shattered Hope wouldn't go in a "Hex slot"... since its not a Hex...
Do people even proofread anymore or do they just face check the keyboard and hit Post Comment? Your % is a hugely staggered blob of nonsense. if all hex perks sucked, no one would ever run them. I believe you just utilize them poorly.
Well considering your name I understand the statement. But you can outright delete all the boon perks if shattered hope was basekit
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I like this.
Yes compensate her base movement speed so, that she still has OK movement thru the map. But make her missing blinks actually punishing for a change.
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You need someone else to mend only if you screwed up. If you screwed up, then it's OK he can down you thru this.
Just keep running until you are safe to snap out of it. Don't hide in lockers and problem solved... Or do so and look for a teammate - but that's your mistake and no problem with doctor
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@danielmaster87 said:
His counterplay remains the same regardless of the add-ons he's using. That's why I've never been big on "Nerf Alchemist's Ring! Nerf Adrenaline Vial!" Should a killer's add-ons not be useful, even at the pink and purple rarity?
Well you have pyramidhead who is decent, but far weaker then basekit blight. And pyramid has awful addons compared to blight. What I am getting at - blight has OK basekit, but it shouldn't be complemented with miriads of great addons he has (compound 33 and 21 are also very cool). If he should have such strong addons, maybe his basekit should be weaker.
BTW same applies to nurse (but she at least does not have THAT many awesome addons - but still 2x range, 2x recharge and 3 blinks are very strong - stuff like bad man's tooth (almost nurse's calling in addon) should have been it).
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@Gamedozer7 said:
Then make it efficient for survivors to group on gens. It should be more effectent for survivors to group up and do there objective together. 120 is just a big number it could be shorter or longer. I dont get why it's more efficient for the team to spit up and not be a team. One of the biggest problems imo I that it's better to work alone most the game then it is to be a team. I think they would need to add a basekit bond to help with solo.
I will give you same kind of proposition. Make gen times 50 seconds (give or take), but survivors can't coop. It shouldn't be survivor's buff right? Because it's same-kind of change as your proposition. And of course I am killer main and never play soloQ ;) Believe me. It's true. Really. I swear! It's definitely killer buff as I am 100% killer main!
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@Zolfo16 said:
5% is so huge that 1 tunnel will mean a game lost. Tunnel is something necessary in some games because some survs keep hiding, some other keep disturbing you and harrassing, you can't give a survivors "get out of jail for free" card. This always has proven being a bad idea.
If you loose the game because you tunnel, then that's actually desired behavior. Tunnel is cheap and going for such tactic SHOULD result in low benefit (with my suggestion it makes it not cheap but expensive, but still huge benefit).
If the survivor is hiding and not doing objective, then you already are effectively playing 3v1 (remember conspicuous action cancels the effect?) which means you are better off ignoring this survivor (and having easier game at the same time).
So why would it be bad?
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@Zolfo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198249#Comment_3198249
Survivor still are mad even if they bodyblocked you twice after jumping off an hook and you hook them again. How dare you to hook them again?
And how the game will recognize a survivor that "asks" to be tunneled in order to not give you the penalty?
5% slower is HUGE! You have no idea! You think 5% is little in regard to 115% but the survivors are 100, removing 5% is basically removing 33% of killer's ability to catch up when the surv holds W.
7% lasts 10-20 seconsa, you can't compare with a permanent 5%! Think about it, how many things you need to accomplish to have 5% for a short duration of time with PWYF?
I know 5% is huge. There should be huge reason why not to tunnel. Survivor with such debuf should definitely not keep it after doing some conspicuous action (and we might even add 1 additional condition that it can be active only on LAST unhooked survivor). But it's not huge enough to risk being tunneled (and playing 3v1).
As to complains - there will always be one from both sides. But there are legitimate reasons to complain (like using cheap tactics with huge benefit) and there are reasons like "I didn't win". I don't care about 2nd one and you shouldn't either.
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Well if survivor "asks" to be tunneled, then you just got his permission and there is 0 reason to be mad about it from survivor's side (same way as blocking with BT).
Also making killer slower by 5% does not mean he will never catch survivor - so running in killer's face is much more dangerous then running at him with old armed DS. It just makes it somewhat harder to actually abuse tunneling mechanic (but still not impossible).
Also I would pair this change with removal of 7% haste effect on survivor. After unhook killer will probably gets into chase with unhooked survivor which should be enough to get away - and if he goes for unhooker, then he should loose chase with just-unhooked survivor. If unhooker runs with unhooked survivor, then it's the unhooker's fault that killer can tunnel.
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Forced droping the pallet would be insanely OP.
Some killers actually benefit really hard from such an interaction (I am looking especially at the 2 of you huntress and pyramidhead, but even trickster and nurse would love these and other killers would still benefit from it). The original aura reveal would be totally pointless part of the power.
As noted in beginning, it should be something thematically identical. So information (aura during animation without lingering effect - it's used during chase so killer sees it already) about a person vaulting any pallet or window at any speed in a radius of a perk would be thematical and not too OP (keep in mind this is secondary effect and should be both weaker AND different from "I am all ears"). I would be perfectly OK with such a buff to a perk
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make shattered hope base perk and boons immediately die. ALL OF THEM. CoH included.
Boons instead of hexes are super easy to find (blue color is much easier to spot especially but not limited to corn maps + all the noise it gives), take a lot of time to set up (including finding the totem) and then you still have to use it (healing in CoH in this case is kind of OK - but all the other boons require to be used with killer being inside = killer knows the position by sound = easy to destroy = at most 1 chase usage).
Also why the double standard? If killer uses some tactics - say unnerving + colourphobia killers say bring autodidact+this is not happening (which are also total trash in any other scenario). When killers slug everyone, they say bring unbreakable. When survivors bring boons, killer say shattered hope should be base kit? Well... Do I smell double standard?
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I like the idea of getting traps from a locker. I would even go as far, that he can fetch his full load into his hand (but this also means no traps on the map by default). He should still get a limit of how many traps he can have in map (say same number as he has right now).
But this can also create new kind of interactions - survivor no longer disarm traps, but destroy them instead (exception to the rule - self arming iridescent addon would leave current behavior. Alternatively there would need to be new addon for him). Once destroyed, trapper can get it again from a locker. But trapper himself can pick up his trap if he so decides.
If this was implemented, trapper sack could mean he starts with [trapper_limit] traps in his hand and the addon no longer disables picking traps again (and survivors can still destroy them). Once he places most/all of them, he can again refill them normally from a locker.
I am fairly certain this will be a direct buff to the trapper (also considering survivors no longer get ahead-of-time information, that they are facing trapper by seeing trap on a ground).
About the second suggestion - I don't think it would be good idea. Getting downed (honing stone) because you got purely unlucky when disarming a trap is too much. Every killer should have some kind of counter play. And the counter play against trapper is for someone go on a map and disarm his traps. Injuring without an addon and trapping when injured is countering the only counter play against him - which I think is unfair.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197211#Comment_3197211
-"Your definition is flawed on so many levels."
Tunneling is not defined by the game. It's a made up term by people who don't like when the killer plays efficiently. Survivors play most efficiently by tunneling out generators by finishing them. A killer can hook one person three times to eliminate them and reduce gen completion potential by 25% or he can hook three people one time and have nothing.
Asking the killer not to tunnel when you are tunneling out the generators is quite silly. You could be getting all the gens to 33% so you're not tunneling his gens. But instead you want to finish your objective as fast as possible. Newsflash : the killer wants the same thing.
If we remove tunneling from the game we need to remove generator tunneling so that the killer does not feel the need to tunnel because survivors finished two generators before the first chase (and in so doing removed his three gen setup).
But devs made tunneling gens bad strategy already. Going more then 1 person on each generator (the only definition of gen tunneling that can hold) already has some serious debuff - that is partially (mostly) countered by proof. Yet it's still not good idea for multiple people to work on single gen (discordance and killers like legion, bubba, armed plague, ...)
But devs didn't think such debuff would be cool on killer's side. But this might actually be the solution. Slow down killer's speed by 5% and shorten the lunge by 50% (lounge thing only so it applies also on nurse) when tunneling. To determine what is tunneling - consider if chasing just-unhooked person that did not do any conspicuous action. Maybe highlight such survivor in some not-too-visible way (e.g. dark round shadow at the center of said survivor, or something on the hud).
Yes. Thanks. This might make it equal on both sides to "tunnel" stuff.
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@DBDVulture said:
Needs a nerf honestly. It should not be something that can be spammed.
One use per hook state per target survivor per team is fine.
oh. We found a camper. No 1-time application is definitely not enough. Because 1-time usage can be still waited out without throwing the game - without perfect coordination (which is absurdly hard in soloQ). 2-time usage is actually punishing enough that the camper will loose more then he will actually gain. So 2-time usage (at minimum) should be totally valid. But if the killer get's hit by this 3 times... Well. Let's say he fully deserves it at this moment.
It's not like I can use reassurance from across the map - so killer had his chance to actually play the game. Or that I want my teammate on a hook instead of on a generator. I only use it if the killer face camps, proxy camps, or tunnels very hard and we can win without the last one.
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@Marius1234456918 said:
If you say dh is bad then you r not able to discuss about the game... Its a free hit that you can 100% take in front of pallets or Windows. And even in open space does it often work. And now you get even more distance with it than before the patch. Its one of the best perks in game. And everyone saying its bad just didnt understand how you have to use it yet.
It would be good perk if it did not depend on killer's network so much. Most survivors I know are very frustrated from it even if they can get it to work sometimes.
But it might be EU thing, because you sometimes get killer from russia that already has very high ping and you have no way to know it. Other times it's someone closer so using it with that kind of prediction will get you killed, because you used it way too soon.
I already gave up on it and use perks that don't need stable killer's ping
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196763#Comment_3196763
-"Tunneling is a form of legal cheating, because it's a game design flaw that is currently being worked on and that 100% guarantees getting 4 kills."
It's nothing personal but you are taking it to that level. Tunneling out gens or tunneling out survivors is efficient play. Make both sides stop.
The biggest advantage you can have in DBD is to play in a SWF. You instantly get more information that solo queue players would have to use all their perk slots for but you can bring all action perks. Communication allows for unreal levels of coordination that this game was not balanced around.
-"My set of instruction is "don't tunnel, don't specifically remove one person from the game, ignoring other survivors, abusing the DS nerf"
And what if I said : my set of instructions includes let a generator fully regress when I kick it if it is part of my 3 gen? I find the rules you want to impose ridiculous so I respond with some that hope you realize you are being unreasonable.
We aren't playing football; there isn't a 10 yard penalty for roughing the unhooker.
-"we are asking (DS baseline with 5 seconds"
DS was a guarantee with 5 seconds but it is a reward you earn with 3 second duration stun. If you make a good play then the DS gets you a new chase. The killer already has enough opportunities to lose a hook. You want the game to be way too favorable for the survivors.
-"if you tunnel, You're just a terrible human being."
We are playing a game where if I finish my goals then your goals are hindered. I'm not some robot playing killer for your amusement. One of the causes for me to play hard on survivors is when I play against a bully SWF squad. Most killers say the same thing; they get conditioned by SWAT SWF teams so they start playing every match as hard as possible. If they are winning easily then they might let up.
So 33% of single gen or it's "tunneling". Ok. Let's apply same rules. You can chase 1 survivor for 33% of one gen = 30s or it's tunneling and so you need to swap target.
Oh bullshit and that is not tunneling? Well doing 33% gens is also not tunneling. You can chase single survivor for 15 minutes for all I care and I still would not call that tunneling. Same way as there is no "leave unfinished objective just so" tunneling.
Tunel was and always will be ignoring everyone and everything else in a match just to rehook person that just got out of hook. If you leave him time to hide/heal and find him again, people will not call it tunneling (if you don't drop actual more favorable chase just to get already hooked person). Your definition is flawed on so many levels.
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@6yXJI0 said:
Camping and tunneling is even worse than before. I would suggest a buff to Reassurance in terms of range and duration, but only 1 source of Reassurance. No longer 3 survivors will be able to apply their Reassurances one after another on a single survivor hook stage.
Why? I see 0 reason why it can't be applied multiple times. There are killers that need to see reinsurance applied twice to stop camping.
And I love to apply it 2nd time - especially in soloQ (which does happen). It helps teach killer, that there is more to the game then just camping.