Gandor
Gandor
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196997#Comment_3196997
Shelter Woods is a map notorious for few pallets for it's size. On the other hand I see Saloon with both strong pallets infront of the main building. And I can swear that there was only one some time ago
and yet most people say the map is either neutral or killer sided. It's small, has almost guaranteed 3gen behind gallows and both strong structures can be disabled by breaking the breakable wall + insane amount of hooks.
I get what you are saying, but to be frank - I did not notice any additional pallets on this map. But I will take your word for it, because I could have just taken them for granted without realizing. That would be something positive map-wise for a change (not counting new maps like eerie and garden that both contain quite some resources).
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I had shelter woods with 6 pallets even before this bug. And I am talking about things like - in temple of purgation - you cound count on the fact, that there would be 1 pallet somewhere on both small stonehange and on big stonehange. But that's not true any more. They just took one of these pallets away (I had multiple spawns where small stonehange did not have any - and no - it wasn't broken already - you can see that by debris of the pallet).
And this is just on top of my head. I know I noticed more things like these regularly. Also map reworks are considered only for survivor-strong maps (headonfield) - but keeping shelter woods or midwitch the way they are is perfectly OK...
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196661#Comment_3196661
It's ages old now.
anything before patch 6.1 is no longer relevant. Also devs tend to remove a pallet from some map every like 2 weaks so....
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@Whoudini said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196650#Comment_3196650
Cowshed has an 80% escape rate...
show me official stats pls. I don't remember seeing such a thing from devs
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yes everything is survivor sided and it's always automatic killer win. Hence 61%...
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196509#Comment_3196509
If we take away all the 10% changes and give back the pre nerf gen regression perks then killer would be stronger than it is right now vs SWFs and slightly weaker vs solo players. You can keep the ruin nerf because that was a noob stomper.
That would be better for the game.
Oh I would take that any time of the day...
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@Akumakaji said:
I can see where you are coming from, but you totally overshoot the target. I am with you that a killer shouldn't sweat it like mad and and a game at 5 gens, but you never know what kind of survivors you are deal and when you finally realise and shift gears it might already be too late.
Maybe some penalty could work for ending the game at 5 or 4 gens, but so many games are decided at 3 and 2 gens, why would you punish the killer for that? Thats like implementing an anti genrush feature (if the survivors are out at 4min or less -100% BP, 6min -50BP) and then still hit them with a penalty thats totally in the normal range of a typical game (-20% BP for a sub 10min game).
If such a system would be implemented, it should only cover the most extreme cases, not just games were one side made significantly less mistakes then the other.
Also, a 4k at 5gens normally only gives the killer a pretty minute BP amount, so halfing that wouldn't hurt that much.
Yes. All we need is mandatory slug of last 2 people to reach 10min mark /s
Nah. The game was almost balanced before 6.1 at 49% killrate. Now it's 61% and it shows on so many issues. And killers will camp/tunnel for as long, as it is beneficial. Or until the game will loose all the options and diversity - because once killer starts to use OP addons and camp/tunnel, his MMR will raise and it will feel good. But once it gets larger, he will NEED to use those things, otherwise "survivors are OP" and "I don't have a chance without it". It doesn't matter how skillful the player is (if he is not like 1% of best players). He will get to this point and then feel tunneling/camping is fair to "even things out" and to "also have a chance to play the game". And as 6.1 changes made camp/tunnel so much effective, it is THAT much harder to not abuse it and getting boosted by it.
BTW this is not just killer's issue. Survivors can also bring commodious toolbox with BNP every game to get same experience. The difference is, that if he does not go to game with 3 other survivors with same mindset, the result can't be felt to that degree. Also 4 BNP can insta-delete just 1 generator (which is definitely felt, but not as much as killer getting rid of 1 player at 3-4 gens).
The solution would be to delete low-effort/high reward things like camp/tunnel/4BNP/range addons on nurse/compound 21 + alchemist ring, etc.
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If they only made pallets work against her same way as it works against wesker.
The chance to give her stun after blink are abyssmal after 5.5 (because she needs to blink, wait for some time where she has immunity during and after blink, then she has narrow window where pallets work and then she is in fatigue where pallets yet again don't work). And even if you get it, it's only benefit it, that she can't swing. That's it. Someone thought it's good idea to make stun duration and fatigue duration go at the same time. Pallets were weak before. Pallets are throwable wall against her now.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196066#Comment_3196066
So. You are queuing up even though you understand there is the possibility you may face something you don't find fun. And then because you faced something you didn't find fun, you now quit and thus ruin the game for the other 4 players?
No. I personally don't do that. But I play SWF as well as solo. And when playing SWF, there is high chance we will drop nurse after her 5.5 patch buffs. She has the most "this is total bullshit" hits/gameplay/interactions.
So we see starstruck, we are dodging the game
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196096#Comment_3196096
I never said I was his fan. I think you have a biased opinion. I've watched almost all of the big killer main streamers. I usually don't watch true play specifically. I watch people who are entertaining or have the potential to teach me something.
If you do not like tunneling then you can blame Otz for steering the game in the direction that kills are better than hooks. True like him or not wanted the game to focus on how many hooks did you get. When he focused on trying to get 8+ hooks per game it made him look like a worse killer. They both have a very high hour count and understand the game well.
I can play Nemesis better than both of them but that's basically the only killer I play when I play killer and they play the whole roster. Otz for example often goes for very risky tentacle hits that rarely land (often including multiple hits out of a window). One of the last times I saw true play I saw him miss a whip against a survivor that was looping a main wall building. The survivor juked out at the last second so the whip didn't land and he was not sure why that missed. If you move your whip outside to in then there is no room for the survivor to dodge.
Are they bad at Nemesis? No - but they lack the Nuance and dedication to playing one killer all the time.
If you compare the two Otz is much worse at Huntress and slightly worse as Blight. I have not seen either really play Nurse in a long time so I can't comment there. Both play Spirit well. We could go down the entire list but its a moot point. Since I did mention it previously Otz is the worse Nemesis of the two.
If you watch both regularly you will notice that they are basically in the same time zone but one of them ends their show before noon my time and one often streams until 6pm (and that used to be later). What does that mean? When you are playing the game matters tremendously. If you log in to play killer at 4am during the week you are not going to face off against many swf at all. But if you play killer past midnight until about 2 am that is all you will see : ultra try hard swfs.
I doubt you are good enough to really say you are better than either at DBD (except at one specific killer) so saying one of them is bad makes you look bad. They're getting paid to play video games all day and you are not.
Yes. Sure. It does nothing. And 49 into 61 is devs lying to us. Obviously bt basekit makes it 12% more likely to loose...
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@darkcloudlink said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194436#Comment_3194436
The afk pig strat resulted in only 1 kill and also had no counterplay, just like what I'm describing, but BHVR added a box to prevent it from happening because it was unfair and unfun. This is the same thing except she's following you instead of camping a box and hoping it's the one you need. I really don't see how people can't realize this is a problem?
Might be because this is already much better situation. Your team (and this happens in soloQ too, just less) can take hits for you and make her loose you.
If this happens, then there are at minimum 2 boxes in game from which you need to do 1 - so you have some chance to get it out.
While your chances might not be stellar, they are far better in opposition to pig going in front of single box and litterally waiting for match to end while having the game minimalized (and still possibly getting a kill).
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196013#Comment_3196013
-"Frame counting? Really? Please try to play some survivor for a change"
Any time you loop a killer around a vault or pallet you are watching where they are in relation to you. You are probably not consciously thinking about it but you are X number of steps ahead of the killer. Another way to think about that is how many frames ahead ( if we were watching a replay of the game).
Maybe you need better internet because most of the games I play ping is not an issue for either side.
100% sure you don't play survivor.
Survivor's ping does not matter. It's killer's ping that does. If killer hits on his screen something during 10second lag (if it's not one of few validated actions), then survivor will be hit. It does not matter where survivor went in that time. That's how the game works....
So no - survivor's better network will not help that survivor. And frame counting is total BS. As mentioned before you try to estimate killer's ping to know how to play against him or to know how soon you need to drop that pallet (meaning you look for distance after you grasp killer's network. Or you just guess and hope for the best). And this will change every match
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192663#Comment_3192663
Truetalent faces much more difficult survivors during most of his stream than Otz. True takes a lot more paid viewer builds and when he plays poorly with someone else's build gets criticized. Let's see how you play a hag game with random BS perks that will not help you. He understands the game and always has little teaching tidbits in his show (which Otz does far less often).
They are both very skilled and when they play "full tilt" on strong killers they can both flatten most people they play against.
No. Relatively speaking - True is just bad killer, that is being carried by hard camp/tunnel. But you being his fan explains a lot.
Otz is absolutely better general killer. But there are even better specialist killers - like e.g. spookyloops is much better huntress then otz.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195570#Comment_3195570
"Since you failed to address all of the other points I made in that comment I shall have to assume that is because you now agree and find them to be true."
Sith Logic doesn't apply to a discussion - so no.
-"I am of the belief that you can't force someone to play fun or fair, but you should make it such a bad idea as to punish you when you choose to do so, regardless of Killer or Survivor player."
You should familiarize yourself about the bet betwen the sun and the wind about who can make a man take off his jacket. No matter how hard the wind blows the man firmly grasps his jacket. The sun gently beams warmth down on the man and he chooses to take it off.
Killers are being forced to tunnel vs strong survivors to have any kind of chance at a fair game. Some killers do choose to tunnel in games where they don't need to do that and other people do it without realizing the current game is not "tryhard".
The best reward we had for scoring multiple different hooks on multiple survivors was Pop goes the Weasel/BBQ. Those were eliminated from being valuable and look what happened - we have more camping as a result. Killer needs some kind of base kit reward for hooking new survivors. No joke - Dying Light Base kit (with the survivor buffs removed) would have been a solid buff for killer. Survivor got BT for free and Killer didn't get a free perk.
Not one. They got several half petks. Half brutal strength, 2 save the best stacks, some old thana stacks AND to top it off reduced survivor sprint. Killers got way more then just 1 basekit BT into their basekit
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196027#Comment_3196027
I'm inclined to disagree about it being the minority simply because I play like a saint and I still get first down ragequits all the time. I play off-meta killers, I use weird builds, I usually don't bring any addons, I never use map offerings, I don't camp, I actively avoid tunneling unless I'm losing. I still get a survivor quitting about once every two or three games. Yesterday I watched a streamer do it and his reason in the match replay was that a teammate got in his way during a chase (which did not even result in him getting hit), and he didn't think anyone was doing generators (which was false.)
Ragequitting ruins the game for all other players, especially the survivors, and it's gotten far too prevalent. I'm sympathetic when it comes to stuff like Starstruck range Nurse or 4x slowdown Legion, but it's gotten way too normalized and people need to be discouraged from it for the sake of everyone else being able to play the game. Likewise, players that currently hate (insert large list of things about the game) should be taking a break from DBD, not attempting to cherrypick acceptable games out of public lobbies.
...Also, we're complaining about Nemesis's M2? Really? It's so thin and you can't even drag it like you used to. If you're getting hit by it and you're not animation locked, you genuinely got outplayed. It is extremely easy to juke. This sounds more like a latency issue than anything else... but the thing is, you're either talking about ragequitting because you're sick of Nemesis, or ragequitting because you thought a hit was BS, and you shouldn't be doing either of these things. In fact, I would solidly place both of those in the 'ragequitting because they can' category - poor emotional control or just a desire to search for a more enjoyable match. Neither is a valid reason to screw over your teammates and both are reasons why I want BHVR to take active measures in stopping my teammates from treating DBD like a singleplayer game.
Nemesis - I am not complaining about his power overall. It has it's risk/reward ratio that is fully OK. I am complaining about the fact, that he can be running at you in full speef and shoot you without any warning - and you should be able to both see/hear him arming M2. That is one tiny source of frustration.
Now imagine you get several games in a row where 1st nemesis like this kills you 2nd huntress shoots you 3m behind walls/corners 3rd facecamp bubba 4th facecamp trickster in basement (yes he first found you in open so your fault) 5th game starstruck nurse. 6th game... You shouldn't have queued up, because even small sandbag with 0 end result is enough for you to suicide.
And this is not exclusive survivor problem. I have seen Otz taking starstruck range addon nurse, because he also had to let out some steam after some unfair games (was it fair to those next survivors?). And he can tolerate much more then most people in my opinion.
And about the minority - I still think that is the case. 1 such person can ruin like 5 matches in time it takes you to finish your first bad match. Survivor queues are rarely more then 30s now (at least for me) so most of the time is wasted in actual loading screen...
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194990#Comment_3194990
Exactly. If you're playing clown and do not have pinky finger on a large/safe map you just automatically lost if you are playing against a SWF. Might as well afk in the corner and make sure nobody can pip?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195081#Comment_3195081
That number would be very different if we removed all the games where people D/C or killed themself on the hook.
People were throwing games when the patch came out to make the numbers look worse.
ALso the devs stated that killer queue times went down by 2:40. I find that my queue times are +2:40 considering that before the 6.1 patch my queue times as killer were almost always instant. Now I wait 3-6 minutes for a game with killer.
Last night there was a 100% killer boost and games were still taking about 2-5 minutes to give me a lobby.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195860#Comment_3195860
"They break 95% of killer roast because 95% of roaster is weak because 95% of roaster is balanced around solo-q"
Then give killer an option to only play solo queue when not playing Blight/Nurse. The simple truth is that playing alone or with friends shouldn't break the game but it does. SWF needs to get nerfed but can never be nerfed because the community would crucify the developers.
"Strangers do not want to talk to other strangers."
People with a common interest - such as a video game they both love and understand can easily become fast friends.
You are right. The number would go to 80% killrate if they counted DC. But as devs have already stated before - they don't count games with DC
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@YOURFRIEND said:
You're lying.
You have something like 40s at half infection before you become fully infected. You couldn't get to a pallet in forty seconds? Even with the video conference addon it's like what 23s? 10 of which you're moving at 110% speed. And you couldn't get to a pallet. That's a lie. You don't have to disassemble to make your point, just phrase it differently. This is embarrassing.
Even with your numbers (which I don't question one bit) - it's still unfair, that tunneling is this much effective. After full infection the chase will end within 15s - probably sooner. That means, it's quite easy to tunnel someone out of the game.
I don't know how exactly should it be done, but there probably should be something like infection "freshness". When infection is stale, it does not progress while in chase. But fresh infection does (infecting people mid chase is reasonable mechanics - especially if survivor got infected by killer's ability within chase).
So unhooked infection time should probably stay the same as it is now, but not build up when being tunneled.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196006#Comment_3196006
You'd have a point if people didn't kill themselves out of games for every ding dang reason under the sun. As it is, saying people kill themselves on hooks because killers play scummy and oppressive is like people saying killers camp and tunnel because games go too fast and survivors have too much pressure. It's technically true but also extremely dishonest because ha ha, no, removing the cause isn't going to change the witnessed behavior one bit. They'll do it until the game punishes them for it and they won't stop a second before then.
They need to do something about people effectively being able to DC for free. You're not supposed to ragequit just because you don't like something in the game.
People are people. Some do it because they can and that's it. I think this is minority (even if not negligible percent). Some do it because they have a bad day. But some do it, because they play 5th game in a row with same result.
Or you just have enough of one killer that can hit you before he even appears on your screen (same as invisible nemesis M2), dodging him is at most educated guess and more about him ######### up instead of you playing correctly (so no real outplaying him) and him being able to repeat it again within 5seconds upon miss + very usable instadown perks...
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195086#Comment_3195086
Dark Theory is designed for the top 1% of players who can loop frame perfectly - not the average joe. DBD is a frame counting game.
"Non legit" players who have some illegal advantage can loop better than all other players - either because they can move faster, see through walls, or have some other trick active.
Yesterday I played against someone who used Balanced Landing twice in a single chase. Both times they fell from the main building in Ormond they made no stagger noise. This occurred in a longer than 60 second period and at the end game there was no vigil.
Any small change in how fast you can make distance in a chase gives you a huge advantage. This is one of the reasons why I really like using STBFL on Nemesis and Demo.
"Dark Theory is designed for the top 1% of players who can loop frame perfectly - not the average joe. DBD is a frame counting game."
Now I am 100% sure you have less then 5hrs on survivor. Frame counting? Really? Please try to play some survivor for a change. PLEASE!
Desynch in this game is THE king. You could be 6m away from killer when vaulting the same fast vault and not get it, or you could be 2m and barely get it. The difference is not in your hands. You don't even know it as survivor. You can maybe measure it by predroping and checking reaction. But some killers have flactuating ping so perfectly exactly same situation can end up in predrop where killer does not get stun, or killer landing hit on you and then getting stunned.
One of your many tasks as survivor is to find out killer's ping. Or not bother at all and just predrop everything with windows of opportunity + pray there is enough pallets so everyone else can genrush in time.
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@SuzuKR said:
The ability to ignore two skillchecks to die should be removed entirely. Frankly, the skillchecks should not affect time left either, just make them Bloodpoint-gain only. Realistically, no one is actually unintentionally missing them outside of lag. In its place, a Give Up button will appear, but only in exclusively either of the following two situations:
- Only one other survivor is in the Trial
- All survivors in the game are downed or hooked
After all the "nurse is ok" threads you fight to force players play out that match.
When they start to DC instead, you will also want more punishments.
And when there won't be any more survivors, you would call for more incentives or something...
Well killer is easy mode now with easy camp/tunnel (today killers were particularly juicy with these tactics. Also a lot of nurses again). This is the result. Get used to it. It will only get worse as new killer buffs arrive
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195022#Comment_3195022
I've rarely seen a comparison as stupid as saying survivors are tunneling generators out of the game. Generators aren't human being trying to play and enjoy the game.
Also the comparison is extremely poor because splitting up is a much more effective way to win the game. It doesn't reward with bloodpoints though.
if as killer you can't win without tunneling, it's 100% a skill issue.
This.
His comparison is like half chasing survivor and leaving him be. Then going for other survivor and when within 2m distance - leaving him be again. And he calls that tunneling gens
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194924#Comment_3194924
It requires a boon and has a small limited area effect.
To reverse the idea - fine then let's make a killer perk like Dark Theory that gives 1% permanent move speed for the killer every time you hook someone. It wont be a hex so you can't "undo" the speed.
Now you see the difference. 2% in very limited area with sound cue about source that can be destroyed (if realized that this source does indeed give that 2% speed) is something very different then perma-speed-boost going from 0 to 11% (but OK - 8% because anything about that does not matter any more). With 8% perma-boost, you no longer even need to use your ability on standard 115% killer - there are no mind games. You just die. And this can be easily seen when you try to loop wesker while fully infected (the effect is numerically very similar - even if not that bad, but very close to it)
To argue the point - with the way how ping fluctuates I am pretty sure that dark theory will be useless for 95% of DBD players even if it was buffed to 4% speed boost (because of limited area effect and because ping would give higher (dis)advantage than the actual active perk - but some "cracked" people on very good internet could possibly make that one additional vault thanks to the perk maybe).
@bjorksnas said:
If it extends a stun it should be an exhaustion perk
Ah. Smash hit with even worse effect. Well... I haven't seen anybody use current smash hit so why would we want to add this perk into game? To have yet another dead perk next to buckle up? :)
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@DEMONANCE said:
couldn't read after "killer being balanced around 4 man swf"
wake me up in the 10th anniversary when something close to that might actually be true lol.
how can you even look at most of the killers we have + the maps and think killers have any chance against swfs.
Easy. 61%. Nothing more to add here
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@randonly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194465#Comment_3194465
but I said that if she is using the >>video tape addon<<, the mechanic of the 5 boxes should remain, but not remain in the killer base kit as a nerf just because of an addon that is not being used.
The problem with 4 boxes still persists even without that addon. The difference is, that there is theoretical counterplay (you just have to never go down). Once you have a single box on your head, pig can basically throw the game to make sure you die (with small exception to possibly having escape thru hatch). If there are 5 boxes, your team (and this happens also in soloQ, just waaaay less) can make her loose you which gives you possibility to do the box - because she can't just go back to her one selected box with "certainty" (given bad RNG - but that bad RNG is in the end kind of easier to get with guaranteed 12 box attempts).
What it boils down to... With the addon there is no question about it. Without the addon, the odds must be quite stacked against you (so the situation is much better), but if you are a little unlucky RNG-wise and pig decides you will loose - then there is nothing you can do about it and it doesn't matter if pig player has 20 hours in game and you have 20K hours (+skill to match that). So to sum up - 5 boxes are way better design. Pig was supposed to be given compensation buff for 5th box - that would be totally fair. But that 5th box had to happen.
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@randonly said:
Honestly she's been dead to me since the nerf in her entire kitbase just because of an addon....
Even when I'm playing survivor against her, 2 boxes are enough to remove the RBT most of the time with this universal system of "12 attempts" fixed for the 4 survivors distributed among the 5 boxes, completely removing the lethality of the RBT's and the design of live or die, even more with the reworks in the maps making everything small, as in the RPD.
Anyway, it would even be welcome to reduce the TR, but they need to undo that last nerf, come back with 4 boxes and set the key in one of them, leaving this universal system of "12 attempts between 5 boxes" only for when using the videotape addon.
ps:a rework on amanda's secret addon would be very good too, it's very bad and it's still rare and an addom that makes ambush attack destroy pallets would be very good too.
No no no no no no no. Absolutely not! 4 boxes were totally unfair. Getting free kill just by pure chance with 0 theoretical counterplay is just bad design.
To be clear - I am all for buffing pig. If people want 28m radius, then so be it. I would be ok even with 24m (which tbh would make her quite strong stealth killer). Heck I would be even ok with making her dash quicker to activate (say even by 0.5s should be fine) or making her dash longer when active (say enough to cover +4m distance) - picking one of these 3 is totally fine with me. But going back to 4 boxes. Just NO!
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@RaSavage42 said:
It's a vicious cycle... Camping and Tunneling due to Genrush and Genrush due to Camping and Tunneling
(Sigh*)
Yes some of the changes were to address this... but other changes made it easier
The 5-10 second BT bsekit.... 90 charges on Gens
Prove Thyself, Toolboxes, BNP are viewed as must haves at this point... which lessen what other perks and Items to bring (for the most part)
The changes to Gen regression was both good and bad... Killers aren't using Ruin as much, but they are using Call Of Brine/ Overcharge/ PR/ Eruption... which can be a problem
But they didn't think of multiple Survivors on a Gen (going from 90 seconds to 56 seconds... unless I'm missing something)... And Gen regression being .25 charges per second make Gen take longer to regress any Gen
SO in my opinion to stop this Camping and Tunneling... the Killer must be incentivized to go away from the Hook... and perks aren't enough
Raising the base Gen regression might be something they could try (it'll even lessen the "4 Gen regression builds)
Changing Deep Wounds might be another thing they could do (But that'll only help Legion and Deathslinger)
A, Killers already have 61% killrate. You would need to compensate for these changes to be acceptable.
B, Also if you make regression any stronger, you would need to make somehow sure effective distance between all gens is (much) higher. I am already seeing killers, that will just camp 3-gen from the start of the game.
In this case 3-genning is not survivor's choise. It's killers. He never gave oportunity to do those 3 (meaning he gave us all the other gens for free). Such a killer never commits to longer chases then say 20-30s and then he makes sure to regress whole 3gen.
If you make regression any stronger and keep regression perks the way they are, then this would be viable winning tactics with no counterplay (but bringing 3-4 BNP in case you find sich killer). So no. Thank you, but I can do without your proposition.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/347196/perk-idea-heavy-hitter
Sounds like an overpowered perk. Maybe all that muscle mass should make you always run 5% slower - then it would be fair and balanced.
No. It's one of those perks that would basically ensure you die in soloQ. On the other hand, it would make bully squads that much stronger.
5% base speed regress would not solve SWF bully squad abuse. But it would guarantee (figurative) 0% usage outside SWF.
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@DBDVulture said:
You have the title wrong bro - survivor should be harder.
More then 3 out of 5 games are now killer win (61%). Basement Bubba can still catch one and go make a coffee and still get a kill. How is that hard?
Also - for your video. First 2 pallets were literal stuns - how is that a predrop? You could argue pallet camping, but predrop? Predrop was what jake did on the game.
Also you can counter that stuff. Just today I had a game with legion - he gave the game offering and took addons to break pallet after vault and recharge power after stun + enduring & spirit fury. A sidenote - on the game there are like 2 ok loops (LT) in whole map. Everything else are bad loops on it's own (freezer window, monitor room window 2 floors above basement) or total trash loops (like window next to exit gate that can't be fast vaulted or vaulted back) or huge number of pallets. 0 things you can do in that setup.
Or you can take T2 nemesis. Or nurse. Or iri addon blight. Or pallet wraith. Or any other option you have.
Or you can find yourself on shelter woods with 6 pallets for whole map (yes, under bad RNG it's possible to get only 6 pallets for whole map)
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@Zolfo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194065#Comment_3194065
When they decided to buff the killers they said the killer were "not killing enough". Now killers are killing more. Maybe a little too much! This is the right environment to promote things like the nurse nerf and the buff to solo.
But the assumption: "nerf killers because it should be a more stressful role" it is dumb and not worth of my time. With assumptions of this leverage you can promote ANY NERF! because it is based on feeling and not on statistics.
Generally agreed. The reason should not be that killers should be more stressful/exciting role. Also I would be happy for some MMR-based balancing. Like if you have 4 brand new survivors against 1 brand new killer - there is NO WAY that killer will win. Like actual chance for killer loosing is mainly based on his internet connection (and dropping out of game) instead of "skill".
On the other hand - best and most "profesional" players (meaning 0.001% of all players) tend to be survivor sided. That is also not ok. To combat this, there should be less high-skill-expression survivor things (like perk hyperfocus, tiny time-window for flash save) and more for killers instead. Also easy to win tactics (camp/tunnel) should be nerfed (give much less value out of it) so that beginners are not steamrolled by killers all the time.
These things would actually make the game more balanced over whole MMR range
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@Zolfo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194021#Comment_3194021
Ok dude! You are the smart guy and i am the dumb!
In my opinion is: if a long message about changes on the game is based on the starting assumption: "the killer role should be more stressful than survivor", my times simply worth more!
I do not agree, i think this is dumb, the message is biased by a person that wants to promote his personal view of the game (not an issue, i've tried to do the same but I accepted mine was unpopular idea), then I prefer go and read other messages and other proposals.
BUT OK! Lets try to keep reading for a while: "If Trapper can't win on Cowshed vs a 4-man SWF - nerf Cowshed and buff trapper. Don't buff all Killers, ######### over the weakest and most popular role in the game - solo queue - at the same time."
.... the issue was ALL THE KILLER WERE PERFORMING BAD! Even nurse! That is OP and should be nerfed. This wasn't an issue about "trapper in cowshed" but "all the killers everywhere".
I simply can't do it. I do not agree with anything here.
How is 49% performing bad? I mean - sure. Killers should have gained a buff - to make it even. 1% or 2% quicker pallet break & cd reduction after hit might make it to that ideal 50% - because everyone should have a chance to win the game. If one role is more likely to win, then the game is unfair to the other role. And as killing/surviving is the metric of who won, then we should aim to make this metric balanced (making it equal chance).
As for "stressful" killer role. I have alternative word that works exactly the same. Killers should be more "exciting" role to play (because you are "always" in chase and not getting a break with boring M1 on generator).
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Depends of definition of facecamping. If we literally mean facecamp (within 3-5m of hooked person, looking at him and waiting) then yeah. Maybe 1 in 20 games. If we talk about killers that feign trying to do something else (never further then 24m, patrolling in the vicinity and looking for people that are going for an unhook) - then 2 out of 5 games. If we talk about really "fair" killers - going away from a hook, ignoring hooked person until he bodyblocks or until somebody else is hooked, then such can be seen in 1 out of 10 games maybe. At least in my experience.
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@Sheridan_LT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193896#Comment_3193896
As long as you're alive as a Survivor, you're a threat to me as a Killer. Why wouldn't I try to get you out of the game early? Would you do gens slower for me as a Killer to help me keep up if I wasn't doing so well???? Why would I respect your "don't tunnel please" if I get literally nothing out of it.
From your personal perspective you are doing everything right. From the point of view of the game, this is problem. Tunneling is easy and cheap to do, yet it provides huge benefit. That is problem. You should have cheap tactics, but it should provide low benefit. And then you should have hard things to execute or risky thing to do, that would provide huge benefit if done right. But cheap and huge benefit is problem from game's point of view
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61% killrate is not amazing spot. The game is super unfriendly to new survivors now. It will manifest itself in time.
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@ProveKa said:
Lately 9 out of 10 games go through camp or tunnel.Because the developers gave great trump cards to the hands of the killers.Regress and block without going to gens( dead mans,pain resonance,dead lock ) This allowed the killers to focus only on survivors instead of jen control.if he knocks down the survivor, perks will do the other things he needs to do.In addition, with the decrease of chase times, it easily deades the player from the game by simply making a tunnel and ends the game directly.
And that's why I bring reinsurance also to my soloQ. It's not perfect, but it works against this
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It doesn't matter. @SuzuKR is right. There is no way how to distinguish it from games point of view (surprisingly even if your game itself crashed).
There is an exception to this. They could create a thing that would automatically remove penalty, if e.g. steam servers "crashed" (meaning tuesday maintenance). Or game servers did. It would help some, but it does not happen often. So maybe it doesn't really matter.
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I wouldn't even bother with this perk. It could be funny meme perk if used sparingly, but I am pretty sure bully squads would abuse it to full extend to annoy killer to maximum (4x flashlight, head on, q&q, heavy hitter + something).
On the other hand, it would be very underwhelming in soloQ. You might use it 1 or 2 times. After that killer will just respect pallets and you waisted perk slot for 2s slowdown.
But I have to admit, that there is quite some fun potential for this perk when not abused
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@GetWoke said:
She’s the absolute queen of the hit ‘n run.
Hit-and-run does not win you games, therefore what she is effective at gains you nothing. In the same way, the hit-and-run Myers is hindering his ability, all you're doing is aiding survivors to escape.
You basically need to secure the first kill as fast as possible to even begin keeping up with survivors. Sadako is hands down the weakest killer in the game, is she unplayable? No. But that doesn't mean she doesn't need serious reworking, all killers should be viable.
All killers are viable. There is already a streamer with huge winstreak on sadako. Means she is viable (if not strong at all compared to nurse).
I mean... We should probably balance both ends of spectrum more, but they are not so far away from each other, that sadako is not even viable.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192694#Comment_3192694
"By avarage you can count 50% of that time as direct survivor slowdown."
On the swamp maps it is very common for the zombies to get stuck and do literally nothing productive. I've had them bug out and literally not be able to move from a hook spawn on those maps. I actually had to punch them 2-3 times while carrying someone to use that hook.
Zombies should be no clip for Nemesis (he shunts them aside by moving through their space) as they often block him in chases especially through the new RPD and other tight doorways. Name another killer who can say : I won't get a hit now because my power which is out of my control got in the way.
"Start to count your wins against loses. Nemesis is above avarage killer."
Then limit the opponents I can face to only above average. Make a cut off point on the MMR chart and say Nemesis is here, Clown is down from that and nurse is WAY up at the top.
Naming other killers - Blight/Oni mid rush if he missed (you are out of control to correct it (especially blight has bad cancel)), Wesker to a degree (you miss (and are out of control to not go full distance) or you cancel your ability and now you can't m1).
Also it's not that rare that zombies block doors/narrow paths - they even don't loose collision, so sometimes they screw over survivors big time.
But to repeat myself - I am not against fixing zombies so, that they don't get stuck. But saying, that they are totally useless is huge exageration. They can be totally useless in some games, but they can win others on their own. It's more problem of how inconsistent they are (sometimes they work as if controlled by best team of players in DBD, other times they are just stuck on a single spot)
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@[Deleted User] said:
Making the SBMM more strict just increases the the queue times. The game already has queue issues, no one is going to wait 15+ minutes for each match.
Idk. My Q times are at most 30s (it makes me nervous when I am about to reach that time now). Then again - I play a role that is being constantly nerfed.
Strickter MM would be welcomed by me.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192553#Comment_3192553
-"I don't know why you compare Nemesis to nurse"
Nurse lost the busted addons this patch so once again it is fair to play against her. That being said SWF got stronger this patch with the rework of all gen slow down perks. Nurse needs to exist as a strong killer as long as SWF exists with no penalty or restrictions.
Nemesis might be "OK" enough with just an addon shuffle if he were unable to play against SWF teams. But that's not how the game works.
-"The game should be balanced around M1 killers."
You're joking right? The M1 killers primarily speaking are some of the worst killers in the game and survivors want to go against them because it is a guarantee of an easy win. If we balance the game around M1 killers then no map can be larger than 9000m². Likewise there can never be more than 12 pallets and at most each map will have 1 "god" pallet and 6 Unsafe pallets +5 safe pallets.
The opposing argument is SWF groups should only play against Nurse or Blight. No I'm not actually suggesting that but it would make SWF fair in its current form.
"I dont think that it is that easy to dodge his tentacle strike. do you only try hits open field?"
Open field hits are actually the hardest place to score a hit against good survivors because they can go in any direction to dodge.
I play Nemesis a lot so I know how to bait tentacle hits and I know how to hit people on loops they think they are safe. But I see some survivors who are almost impossible to whip. Some of them are just absolute mad lads.
I got 99% of my rank ups for blood point rewards this year playing Nemesis so I know how to play him.
Start to count your wins against loses. Nemesis is above avarage killer. I see no reason to buff (or nerf for that matter) this killer. When you get to 50 games - check your killrate. I am pretty sure it will be above 50% (indicating slight nerf would be OK - not that I advocate for it).
The only indirect buff would be fixing his zombies to not get stuck - that will still not make that huge difference, because it no longer happens as often as it used to.
And zombies are useful - as a slowdown. You shouldn't expect hits from them, but it's almost every nemesis game that some zombie comes and forces me out of one loop, protects some generator or even facecamps hook. Check the map and see how often has the zombie raised hand. By avarage you can count 50% of that time as direct survivor slowdown.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191363#Comment_3191363
"it's your fault you let them tunnel your gens, accept your skill issues"
I watched Otz play a map on Lerys within the last two weeks. They were a SWF using callouts and finished two gens before he ever got a chase. Otz finally caught one and camped them in the basement.
So you're calling Otz bad becuase he camped someone to death to apply pressure? Seems Not Legit.
DBD has rules that massively favor the survivors. That is why killers need to camp to win. Baby killers (usually this means survivor mains) playing vs baby survivors can do the no perk AFK challenge with any killer and win. It's not like that when you face teams who play as if they are trying to win a $100,000 tournament. People love to say "those teams are rare" - they might be for you but they are not for me, Otz, Truetalent and most of the big name streamers. I'm not a streamer but I get very skilled players just like I see on those streams.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191315#Comment_3191315
"they still will genrush no matter what". Because that's true."
And that is why killers tunnel. When survivors efficiently repair gens you are forced to tunnel to apply pressure. You can hook one person three times and they die or you can hook three different people and you have nothing. This is the same as applying 90 seconds of repair to one generator or applying 90 seconds of repair to three generators.
If you want to remove tunneling from the game that's fine but you have to remove the ability for survivors to tunnel gens as effectively as they do now. Then you can wave a magic wand and make killers not want to tunnel. Unless you do both there is no way the game can change. Why? Because if you hard limit tunneling the killers will stop playing because there will be no way to beat good players on maps that are overall just too safe with too many pallets/vaults.
The game would be very different if the devs had done something like removed 1 pallet or vault from the map as you rank up moving from ash to yellow to green to purple to red ranks. Some of the maps would probably be fair if they played at "red ranks" with -4 pallets. Imagine for example any of the farm maps with -4 pallets. What if the Shack pallet starts removed at the start of the game?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191373#Comment_3191373
-"Tunneling is focusing single survivor just after unhook with single intention"
It's a waste of time to debate you if you think for a second survivors don't do the same thing to break 3 gens. Getting my gens tunneled out is just as frustrating when playing killer as it is to get camped and tunneled out of a game as survivor.
The difference is that most survivors feel it's fine to tunnel generators because the generator asset is a NPC object even though it is tied to the killer's win condition.
You clearly play one side only. That is the reason for your posts. Calling true good killer (in same sentence as otz - and those 2 are miles apart) is dead giveaway.
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I think those 32s pre-last-nerf was actually fine. Some killers/survivors still considered it killer's perk, but others liked it the way it was.
Now there is no question about it. It purely benefits killer (especially hit&run kind) if not paired with botany
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@Marik1987 said:
Boons are OK now, I think.
Hex-Totems however should receive more protection or you should be able to reset it like Survivors can with Boons.
Terrible idea.
If you want them resetable, you need to make them much weaker. 1s to boon/cleanse them away, make 24m noise and do their action only within 32m + notification about their existance + 14 setting up time + they don't start lit up.
If all these conditions are met, you are allowed to relit your ruin/dhope/etc
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@dugman said:
Think of it this way, every time you snuffed a Boon it took you a couple of seconds maybe and then they spent 14 seconds plus travel time setting it back up. Now imagine if instead of them spending all that time resetting multiple Boons they had just been sitting on gens, that quickly adds up to a lot of lost gen progress. I’ve definitely had games where the survivors lost because they spent so much time and effort constantly fiddling with Boons that they didn’t spend enough time on the gens and lost.
This is it. Killers don't see how much time they saved by survivor doing boons. Also it's MUCH easier for killer to find totem then for a survivor - a single good example - try to boon a totem in a corn (watch how much time it takes to find that totem for survivor and how much for a killer).
@Oneblacktophat said:
Boons are ridiculous as killer, I usually play survivor and I don't usually use boon totems but I had to play killer for a daily. I just went up against a SWF and all of them had boons, everytime I injured someone it's like they instantly healed and I keep putting them out just for them to be relit. With hex totems for killers, you only get one use out of it until it's broken. Why not just have the same for survivors, make it were survivors can only boon one totem per match or give the killer the ability to relight theirs. It doesn't make sense that Killers don't have a way of countering this.
Delete boons and don't even think about complaining about genrush. Because boons are the best time-sink you can possibly get from the game. Also try to measure how long your chases actually take and how much the gens pop in that time. Compare games with boon totems and games without them. I am pretty sure you will soon advocate to add some more boons to the game (from killer's point of view that is) ;)
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191261#Comment_3191261
"No. Survivors don't "tunnel" gens"
So that means you often get a generator to 20% then leave that generator for no reason and get another generator to 20% and then make sure all the generators are at 20% before working any generator from 20-40%?
No - You've never done that. You try to complete a whole generator.
Also killer really didn't get more powerful with the 6.1 patch. The best killer perks were nerfed to oblivion. Gens were made 10 seconds longer but now everyone is using Prove Thyself and Hyperfocus. Good players are completing gens faster than ever before. Breaking a pallet 10% faster does nothing - streamers made videos before the patch showing what 100% faster pallet breaking looked like. It did nothing because most maps have insane pallet density throughout the map.
Pop Goes the Weasel used to save me about 120-180 seconds per game. I did the math in another thread and on average kicking low-middle progress generators only saves 50-60 seconds with nerfed pop.
Meanwhile Survivors get 10 seconds of borrowed time base kit. Killers don't get any perk to compesnate. Much less Borrowed time was the only meta perk that got buffed instead of nerfed. It makes no sense.
And here we go again. Your example with 20% gens would be same as getting close to survivor and then abandoning it. Maybe hit him once and then running away as much as possible. Tunneling is focusing single survivor just after unhook with single intention - to get him out of the game ASAP. Survivor's version on a gen is bringing BNP with best commodious toolbox and extra charges and hyperfocus + proof + streetwise + built to last and going 2+ person on a same generator. You can see that in some matches from time to time. But most people just don't do that.
Yet there is quite a number of killers (I would say 30% in my MMR range) that tunnel survivors like this (even ignoring downed survivor just to get that one unhooked). This is what we are talking about. Not doing generator 1 by 1. Maybe 2 and someone bringing proof to (not entirely) mitigate debuff that the game already provides.
Also killers DID GET MUCH more powerful after 6.1. I would gladly wipe out EVERY. SINGLE. CHANGE. from 6.1 patch if it ended up in 80s gens, longer hit CD and longer sprint after hit + DS revert (the length - endgame could even stay the way it was). Breaking the pallets would be bonus I could fully live without. And I have to mention it again because you might have not played right after the patch or you might suffer amnesia (I have no idea which one), but basically every match after 6.1 for a few days ended up in a 4K. Queue times for killer and survivor instantly swapped + quite some more - making some streamers complain that they can no longer play any killer matches. So saying 6.1 wasn't VERY CLEARLY killer buff dream patch requires some very selective vision to say it politely.
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This is just better renewal. I mean - I am not directly oppose to this one, but if this would be the case, then we need to remake renewal. I would also presume we might need to lower a little bit numbers (maybe it would be even enough to have each token heal max 49% instead of 50% so it would require assistance from boon/selfcare/medkit/other survivor to fully heal).
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191139#Comment_3191139
-"The test was made and killers failed in this regard."
What test was this? LOL.
Survivors tunnel gens so killers tunnel survivors. Since the survivor objective is shorter the killer is forced to do something to "gain" more time. That is why they tunnel.
No. Survivors don't "tunnel" gens. At least good survivors don't. It's inefficient (not counting last 1 or 2 generators). Going 2+ survivors on single gen means more problems if killer comes and penalty for doing that (with proof, the penalty is very low, but it's still there). So that's wrong on your part again.
And again. I have never seen so much camping as we could have seen just after 6.1. The reason being, that there was no counterplay - meaning it was minimum the killer needed to do (just get 1 quick chase to get 1 survivor out of game) and slamming gens did nothing to it thanks to 90s generators.
So to repeat myself - killer had every opportunity to not camp/tunnel after 6.1. What we actually saw was instead of NOT camping/tunneling, we saw majority of killers camp/tunnel. So to quote you "The solution is to make killers more powerful. " is wrong as proven by 6.1 patch. And as proven by 6.2 patch - the solution to camp is make camping LESS powerful.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190815#Comment_3190815
Before the rework Pop was fantastic for turning a gen with 20% progress down to 0% progress. Your estimate is far too generous considering it takes 2 seconds to kick the generator and not having the perk removes a flat 2.5% so we won't consider this for talking about calculations as kicking a gen without pop will always give you that value too.
If you kick a gen at 99% you will remove 17.82 seconds of additional progress. The problem is that kicking a gen with that much progress is basically a lost cause. What happens if you kick a gen at 30% progress? You remove 5.4 seconds of progress by spending two seconds kicking the generator. Bear in mind that the time you are spending kicking a generator for 2 seconds gives 8 seconds to the enemy team if 4 people are alive. That is almost completely worthless.
Pop is the perk that was carrying survivors before the rework. No big name streamers are using Pop after its rework because it was completely gutted. It was common for me to get 6-9 Pop's per game and I saw streamers have similar results. That means on average I was increasing the time needed to complete the survivor objective by 120-180 seconds.
Pop used to have great value kicking gens at 20% progress but now it essentially has zero value because you lose more time than you gain for kicking. If we consider kicking gens between 20 and 50% progress on average (35%) and multiply that by the same value we get a time savings of: 6.3 seconds per kick. So now Pop is only saving 37.8-56.7 seconds.
Translation: Pop received a 50-75% effective nerf in circumstances where I used to routinely kick generators.
Would anyone still be using Prove Thyself if it lost 50-75% effectiveness? No. The same goes for boons too.
As for Pain Resonance it really only works in circumstances where you use BBQ to see where the survivors are to follow up on the explosion or DMS which will block the generator automatically. Without another perk the Killer doesn't know where to go making the regression useless if you have to make a 33% or worse coin toss. It takes most killers about 15 seconds to cross medium sized maps (and the act of hooking takes about 15 seconds). That means the survivors had at least 30 seconds to work on the generator.
In other words without a follow up the Pain Res will have very little effect unless the gen has very low progress - in which case you didn't need the perk anyway.
you cherry-pick what you like and disregard what you don't like. I can do the same. Add permanent 5% running speed boost to survivors as a compensation for 10% gen/pallet/breakables speed boost+10% lower CD on hit + 10% slowdown on hit survivor's run-away speed.
Also survivors got hit on all meta perks at 6.1 while killers just needed to swap to different slowdown perks. The patch was VERY clearly killer-sided. For a few days after the patch - basically all survivor games ended up in 4K (maybe disregarding 1% top players). DS nerf, DH nerf, BT 5s resulted in people getting smacked 5s after being unhooked for very easy tunnel, 90s gens resulted in facecamp bubba getting guaranteed 2K maybe more.... And all you can think of is that POP got nerfed (but OC and eruption got huge buffs to compensate)
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No buffs or QOL for one of 2 best killers (by a huge margin) in game please.
Nerf it and then we can talk about making some aspect of them better.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/346905/hook-camping
The solution is to make killers more powerful. What? Am I crazy? No - it will make sense if you listen.
When I play killer I will always camp someone to stage two if I lose two gens before getting my first hook. The pace of the game is simply too fast if survivors focus on slamming generators.
Imagine for example that a base mechanic were added to the game that if a killer were beyond 20m away from a hook then the entity would block one generator from being worked on until that survivor was rescued. However this would be different in that the killer could kick the generator and no one could work the generator until the survivor were rescued or they died on the hook if the killer were beyond 20m.
This would literally force the killer to want to leave the area to block the generator. This would force the survivor whose gen was blocked to go and make the save.
The underlying problem is that the survivor objective can be finished in 4 minutes but the killer objective takes 6-9 minutes. This is why killers tunnel.
100% not true. The test was made and killers failed in this regard.
Killers were never stronger then just after 6.1 patch making there chases strongest they have ever been in whole DBD history. Also killers never camped and tunneled as much, as after patch 6.1 (first days after the patch, people had some serious problems doing more then 2-3 gens before 4K). This only changed in patch 6.2 where camping got serious nerf.
The end result being - people will camp & tunnel if it is easy to do and it gives them good chance to win. So to reduce camp/tunnel in the game, you need to make this strategy "bad" (it's low risk, so it should yield low reward). This can be done by e.g. making reassurance basekit or making it not being behind paywall + buffing it's distance and duration. And this has also been tested to work, because people camp WAAAAY less after 6.2 in comparison to 6.1 patch.