Gandor
Gandor
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This sounds reasonable. I just like current huntress and quite frankly am scared of change (in case I did not notice something obviously abusable about these changes). That's the only reason I don't want your change xD
but it looks good on paper 🙂
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206514#Comment_3206514
FYI anything below a 75% killrate is still just a 2k on average.
A 50% killrate is not "perfectly balanced", it means the Killer barely manages to scrape by the requirements to get a 2k. The killrate being at 61% doesn't mean Killers suddenly dominate all their games, it just means they can get more hooks in on average than they could prior and still end the game on a 2k. That is not a bad thing.
Not to mention that these stats are taking all ranks with all skill levels into account (they most likely also don't filter out games with ragequits, which spell certain doom for the Survivor team and can therefore artificially inflate these numbers), which makes them pretty worthless overall.
Idk but did you have basic math in school? You have 5 options. 0k (survivors won hard) 1k (survivors won) 2k (it's a draw) 3k (killer won) 4k (killer won hard). Anything above 50% kr means you push for killer won or killer won hard. So 75% is on avarage killer won (so total disaster). 60% is 2,4k/match so something along the lines of it's a draw, but killer almost won on avarage.
How would you like it if the stats were reversed? Meaning you would get 2 kills only if you were lucky? But almost as often as you get a draw - you would outright loose the game? Good feeling right? Makes it quite easy to reason why incentives are on survivor almost always...
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Then you would have to nerf it to 3 seconds.
You want to compensate that buff, because we want to keep it under 1% usage?
The idea is to make it more appealing to use. Not less... Anyway, I am pretty sure it would still be worst exhaustion perk in game
Edit: typo and better wording for the idea
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@Sava18 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206223#Comment_3206223
I'm pretty sure cold wind got the reverse treatment of midwich. It's impossible to walk two feet without another hook being there. Even against sabo squads there is always another close by.
Not in my experience. Coldwind is not remarkable in any way considering hooks with one exception. It was on coldwind farm that had a bug with 2 hooks being like 5m apart from each other
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206522#Comment_3206522
Yes, clearly the fault is on someone playing a part of the game instead of ragequitting the second they face something they don’t like.
Or maybe it's 0 fun to face nurse and she should be reworked.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206504#Comment_3206504
Removing the DC penalty is literally one of the worst possible ideas ever. Literally every single time BHVR has temporarily disabled it due to crashing issues or cheaters or whatnot, people nonstop ragequit almost every game ever.
It might have to do something with the fact, that you play nurse. In my games it did happen, but definitelly not almost every game (be it survivor or killer game) so maybe killer (not player) issue?
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Or make the game fair again (49% killrate was just 1% shy of fair games). This might do the trick for most killers.
Forcing ppl to play loosing match against starstruck range addon nurse will force them to effectively DC (that's what suicide on hook is), or stop playing the game altogether if you punish them too much. The game is pvp and not pve. You can't take control from 1 side and then force them to play
Also expect sandbags/dropping pallets/missing all skillchecks if you force people to play the game that they don't want to play. Because that would be the only remaining thing how to get to next game
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@Lastchild said:
The only way to balance Solo Qs with SWFs is to nerf the SWFs.
And the only way to nerf SWFs is to simply reduce their knowledge of the maps that's their strength.
This means increasing the elements included in the procedural generation of maps.
Because if there are 30 different versions of a card the SWFs will not have the current confidence.
The killer will be as lost as the survivors in the cards, it's the only possible balance.
Maps shouldn't be recognizable, they should constantly be a new adventure.
On the official website it is stated that the maps are procedurally generated.
The truth is that this generation lacks a lot of precision.
All the elements of a card must change places, direction, size.
Wrong. You could give all the advantages, that SWF already has to soloQ. That would balance both groups. Once both groups are balanced, you can buff/nerf killers so, that you get 50/50 kill ratio. If you manage to do this across whole MMR range, then you have fair game for everyone
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@GravelordNito99 said:
It's old news that the game itself is massively survivor-sided at its core, with new gen speeds still being unwinnable for killer. Of course, the maps also being awful for killer is just extra insult to injury.
😂😂😂😂😂😂 Give me some more jokes. Heavily survivor sided 😂 right. 61% and let's not count DC, because it would be 70+ killrate. Survivor sided 😂😂😂😂😂
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Midwitch always had bad hook spawns and nothing changed here. But the map was and still is heavily killer sided so lack of hooks is good.
The game on the other hand... I play saboteur and the only possibility to get successful sabo play in this map are scourge hooks + perfect play (and killers ignoring closest hooks), or endgame some survivor falling down in gate area (and even this is not guaranteed).
In all the other cases killers never have problem with the map in my experience (but I see tendency of many killers to stay on same floor even when it makes very little sense - it might be your problem too). It's much easier to get good sabo play on eerie, any red forest or any farm map (all having regular hook spawns) then on the game
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@Asura said:
Can we have the Obsession transfer to another survivor if the Obsession Rage Quits?
I was running a build with Dying Light, Furtive Chase, Grim Embrace, and Bamboozle when the Obsession rage quit on first down. This rendered my first 3 perks worthless. No more Obsession means Dying Light and Furtive Chase do absolutely nothing. This happened at 5 generators and 0 hooks. I specifically went after the Obsession to get my build rolling, so when they rage quit, 3/4 of my perks now did nothing.
Grim Embrace can never reach max stacks to even lock generators because there is now one less player in the game, not to mention it won't reveal anything because there's also no obsession (I'm more concerned about the no gens getting locked part honestly for this perk). I can't hook a survivor for the first time if they rage quit the second they enter the dying state.
If anyone has any better ideas, I'm open to listening.
Obsession DC's and you want additional buffs? You already play 3v1. The game should be easy now even without any perks
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202118#Comment_3202118
I'd be ok to see Nurse get a "Hillbilly" treatment but only if SWF gets obliterated too. Nurse and Blight are the only killers that make certain maps fair and that's completely stupid. Likewise playing against certain try hard SWF teams, on survivor sided maps with insanely strong items is impossible except as Blight or Nurse.
Playing against certain killers on map of their choosing is impossible except WAY more (like 2-3 leagues better) skilled survivors.
Take range addon starstruck nurse on midwitch. RIP.
But let's go to more meh killers and "survivor sided map". Take Legion on the game with Julie's mix tape, Iridescent button, enduring and spirit fury. You have 0 counterplay. Now go enjoy the match where there are like 2 loops in whole map you can use.
Killers have same amount of OP unfair things that they can do. Same as survivors. The difference is, that there is also nurse and blight's addons.
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I still think the game should emulate the same kind of info for soloQ, that SWF has. This means no kindred (that's more then what SWF has), but something like killer instinct that gives general information.
+ You see other survivors build in lobby (you can play around it) + ping system (+ability to ping your perk at times) + hud actions indicator.
Having all these SWF will get marginally buffed (total 0 buff for really good SWF), but soloQ will get buffed a lot. I think that would make game more balanced.
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@Wiccamanplays said:
The RPD maps are almost unplayable as Dredge. There are massive swathes of both maps where there are simply no lockers. What lockers there are are often tightly bunched together or centred around hooks, making Reign of Darkness practically useless. I know that RPD is pretty survivor-sided in most scenarios anyway, but to ruin the entire power of a mid-tier killer purely through level design is sadistic. Please do something about it.
Rpd survivor sided 😂😂😂😂😂 rpd is unhappyness sided. Old RPD was survivor sided. New one has guaranteed ugly 3gen at main+1 or 2 close-by gens
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Agreed. DS needs buff, but it shouldn't include anything that makes it active at endgame.
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@GooseMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204650#Comment_3204650
Sorry, but this makes no sense. If you get tombstoned by Myers, do you feel like: "yep, that's how this killer is working, this is balanced". If the map has too big killrates there should be a way to address that either..
Actually that's exactly how I feel. Yes my team screwed up and let meyers stalk them too much. It's not fair towards me (if I wasn't stalked - soloQ issues), but considering the game as team it's fully ok.
And considering the hooks... If every hallway had 1 additional good pallet (meaning +8 pallets), the map would become Ok. Maybe not against nurse/blight/twins/sadako (yes sadako is OP on this map even if she is weak otherwise)/.... But at least regular old slow M1 killers would be managable (e.g. clown)
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204923#Comment_3204923
No, they don't.
Name me one game of a similar complexity/nature to DbD that managed to actually do this.
The way this game operates means that the 'team' role, as it requires coordination, will be harder on newbies than the solo role, but you can't just buff the team role because then the solo role gets destroyed against coordinated groups.
Also - no, we don't.
Also also - yeah, I'm going to need a source on that one. 'Not that many new players'...where are you getting this from, exactly?
In example LoL is much more complex and they are able to do it. All you need to do is identify hard stuff to do vs easy stuff to do. When you want to buff newbs, you buff easy things and nerf hard things. When you want to buff experts you do the opposite
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201176#Comment_3201176
- You can't talk about MMR distribution because A. we don't know how this is actually structured and B. you'd have to shave off the back end, as there will be more people at lower MMRs than higher. I'm not sure what you are on about here. Nobody is saying balance only around the top 1% of players, but you can't balance the game around newbies either.
- She's still the lowest. My point is that this is why you can't balance around that data, because it's completely thrown off by new players.
Not true. Good games balance around both newbs AND top AND avarage player. You just buff/nerf hard (and rewarding) vs easy (but not as strong) perks according to which party inside MMR you want to buff.
Also. We generally do know how the game is structured across MMR. 1, most game have bell-curve distribution. 2, devs already stated that this is so for high MMR. We also know that there are not that many new players so....
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@FizzieSprite said:
The devs wanted the 60/40 kill rate anyway and now they're pulling crap like this LOL. I agree, ALL of the ideas proposed are god AWFUL and need to never show their ugly faces again.
Who wants to come play F13 or Outlast: Trials with me LMFAOOOO
Which in itself is also terrible idea that created 99% survivor incentives at +100% TBH
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@GooseMan said:
This map is horrible in terms of hook spawns. You can kill one survivor here and get 25% of the map having no hooks at all. If BHVR are going to give survivors free unbreakable this problem should be addressed.
No. I agree with you that hook spawns are terrible for killers here. Everything else is terrible for survivors in this map.
If the map should have 0 counters for survivors, please DELETE IT! It has highest killrate. I see 0 reason to buff the map any more
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@Leguś said:
Who said game has to be balanced around 50%?
It could 20% or 80% even and some might say it's "balanced".
Also, we can put counter-agrument to yours' by saying Med-Kits even without Syringe/Styptic, BNPs, Prove, CoH, Blood Amber, mostly map balance actually goes to Survivors if you analyze all maps. So yeah, here's that.
And before you say anything, I didn't say "Leave OP things for Killer alone".
Common sense. Would you be happy if the game was stacked against you? How would you feel if devs decided you should be able to get at most single kill in a game? And changed the balance so that it will be like that (e.g. slowing all the killers by 7% and prolonging ability recharge to double time)?
Even their MMR is made around 50% killrate. Having MMR not in line with killrate means 1 side is always climbing up. That can't hold for long - it ends up balancing if the other side leaves the game and new players come (clearly a problem), or one side platoes so much, that the other will have 0 MMR and there is no difference between beginner and pro - MMR-wise.
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@Dream_Whisper said:
I rather they instead make it not possible to do flashlights saves fron locker grab animations onlu. After all, it is is a very unique interaction that shouldn't be counter and abuse by experience Survivors in bad map spawns near doorways and windows.
I think flashlights saves should only be possible to do, when you do the pick up animation, as well as during the grab animations when the killer is able to pull a Survivor off a hook or window.
If anything, DS and Head On should be the only perks to counter locker grabs.
This. Locker saves can really be abused. 2 very skilled survivors hoping into locker gives killer 0 options and survivors inside them are invincible.
But to fix this specific interaction, you don't need to disable locker saves. All we need is disable flashlight for like 2s after leaving locker. Nothing more
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@Adjatha said:
BHVR: "We noticed that kill rates are around 50/50, so we'll be rebalancing some core gameplay elements.
BHVR: gives survivors a massively superior version of Borrowed Time and killers 1/3rd of Brutal Strength + 1/4th of Save The Best For Last.
Survivors: pitch hissy fits, mass-disconnects, and throw games constantly.
BHVR: "Good News! Kill rates are now at around 60/40, right where we want them."
Survivors: continue to do what they've been doing.
BHVR: "So, we're going to give Survivors free, infinite Unbreakable. Also, Killer Moris are now one per game, and only on the last survivor, and only as a cherry on top, with zero actual gameplay ramifications."
Boy, I bet that 60/40 is going to stay consistent with sweeping, one-sided gameplay changes incoming!
Oh I so hope it will settle somewhere close to 50:50. Ideally across-mmr-50:50. That would be actually be fair for a change.
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@FreddyVoorhees said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203409#Comment_3203409
You already suggested that there are solutions to bubba camp. The styptic agent would still work. If that fails due to poor play you would still be able to blind him once. That are two chances to unhook a stubborn bubba.
You also have a flashbang which could be excluded from the rules above (killers would never be immune to it thus making the perk valuable and survivors have a SECOND blind follow up play that could bridge the cool-down gap).
You do not need to chain blind so much. Once blind and loop him well with pallets/vaults/deadhard until he is vulnerable again. If you can loop a killer for 40s which is something many are capable of , you will be able to blind him again. That is a nice chunk of time for your team mates to progress their gens. Rather than just chain blind for 5 minutes.
As for flashlights against tunneling killers , that is a separate issue, the tunneling. That by itself needs its own fix. Either way , your flashlight will deplete or Franklin's will take care of it. Its not a guaranteed protection by itself. Over 85% of survivors do not have a flashlight when they run from the killer and still manage to loop them for a long time and often escape.
If you saved your teammate from the killer but they got down in 20s then you must admit the fail on their part. The killer not only lost them to you but still managed to hunt them down all over again. You can't expect to constantly guard your teammate with a flashlight. They need to work on their own to survive too. Save them once and do the gens or distract the killer. Otherwise both you and your teammate are not progressing your escape. It takes time for them to die on the hook. You will catch a chance to take them off it in a minute or less with your flashlight ready once more.
Survivors already got unbreakable buff on the way which will kill slugging. Killers will have to pick them up and hook them. That is where your chance lies to save them. Flashlight is only one of the ways to save your team mates , you can sabotage , body block etc.
And yet I see 0 good reasons why flashlight should be destroyed. It's hard to utilize, has limited time usage and there are multiple perks that make it quite useless.
If the only thing you can think of is toxicity, then remove killer's M1, because some killers hit survivors on hook. Or remove hooks, because some killers facecamp. It always go both ways. You can't just take from survivors all the time. Devs already took way more then what's healthy (still 61%).
As for bubba - not everybody takes styptic. You should keep more options how to play the game. Same thing for flashbangs.
Taking away utility of flashlight is also wrong. Why can't I use my item more then 1x per minute? What if I blind him at the pallet but he hits me when blind? Does that mean noone should be allowed to flash save me? Why? Should killers be unable to hit anyone for a minute once they down someone? Or at least use their ability? Again. For what purpose?
Ps. I don't use flashlight, because I can't get the timing reliably enough. When I play killer I get almost flash-saved also quite often, but again. Timing. And still I benefit from it, because there are people that can get it. And it's cool when they do. I don't see any good reason why survivors should be robbed of flashlights completely
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@KayTwoAyy said:
@SuzuKR I love how I will vehemently disagree with you in one thread, then turn around and applaud your comments in another
Ha! Same here 😂
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@Leguś said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200770#Comment_3200770
It's 8s of Endurance and if you have decent outputing time you can pop Styptic almost instantly.
You can also use Dead Hard right when it ends so you can be even greedier in chase.
Also, can be used in conjuction with Anti-Hemorrhagic Syringe, the Syringe time can be modified meaning it can heal you in sub-8s.
Basically forcing the "Damned if you hit, damned if you wait." cases. Both need to be looked at but Styptic Agent seems to me like priority no. 1.
Let's be fair then. Styptic agent for 1 best killer addon on each killer. So blight's alchemist ring, nurse range addons, spirit's mother-daughter ring etc. And killer's stuff should be higher priority, because 61%
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@Majin151 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203363#Comment_3203363
And by that time flip flop would guarantee the survivor escapes the grasp of the killer you're acting like i never done this myself when trying to get boilover nerfed into by telling my friends how to abuse this build and become unhookable on certain maps
Old boilover was unhealthy. It was very easy (with conjunction to some maps) to be unhookable. That is not the case if you don't clean up sector out of all hooks. As noted before - you have always possibility to hook on multiple hooks (midwitch with bad RNG excluded).
@FizzieSprite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203422#Comment_3203422
Absolutely not. Read through some of the other forums: hundreds of killers, including myself, are planning to uninstall this shitshow fiasco if it ever goes live. Any Killer main with enough braincells to catch an urban evading meg can see that this is ridiculous and should not happen. Majority are leaving, again, including myself.
6.1 forced me to quit until 6.2 "fixed" total camp fiesta to only fierce levels (reinsurance). Maybe you can take a break for a patch if it really becomes so bad. But considering 61% - I am sure you are exaggerating the same way as people always do.
But let's see. Maybe I will play also some killer when incentives will not be 99% of time on survivors.
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@FreddyVoorhees said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203047#Comment_3203047
They already buffed unhooking with extended endurange and haste time. They could power it more , though flashlights have little use when unhooking someone. Also with the cooldowns suggestef above you will still be able to blind a killer at least one a minute. That is 15 or more blinds during a match. Ask yourself , how many times does a killer gets blinded on average ? Even with my suggestion you could still deplete a buffed flashlight. But you will no longer be able to abuse with it though.
No. If you have face camping bubba, styptic agent or flashlight are your only chances to get that survivor out. One by consuming it and being able to tank a hit even if it's insta-down, the other one by being able to distract bubba giving other teammates miniscule time to actually unhook.
Also this would turn off chain blinds (useful especially on pallets - you stun him and get 1st blind - killer will probably try to break the pallet to use that time which gives you opportunity to blind again from bigger distance) - really important for tunnel-vision (or outright tunneling) killers.
Sometimes you want to force killer to look down/up just to be unable to hard-tunnel your dead-hook teammate. This is also one of very few things you can do for your teammate (the other is body block, but that only prolongs the chase and does not solve anything - flashlight can make killer loose tunneled survivor).
Another thing - killer running only after me and ignoring everything. If I have flashlight, I can use pallets and when he tries to break them I can blind him - this can repeat itself multiple times per minute. Also legitimate use of flashlight without any toxic intention behind it.
Another thing - I tried to help my teammate so I blinded the killer. But it did not work out and my teammate got down in next 20 seconds. With your suggestion I can't even try to flash save, because killer has still 40s flashlight immunity.
As noted before - if you want to butcher another aspect of survivor, then give something back in return. Butcher camping the same way you want to butcher flashlights
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@Majin151 said:
Hmm the was preemptively sabo'd you say what's stopping them from doing to the theoretical 2nd hook that your heading to?
A sabo squad would make sure they go down to a area where it would be easy to free their teammate and repeat
hooks can be destroyed for 30 seconds (45 in case of specific addon that is very rarely used - speed is almost universally better for sabotages). If you notice this is the case, it's really easy. Just go for the hook after ideally 23 seconds and you will have 7 seconds to start hook animation without any chance of being in risk (if they brought that specific addon, you have enough time to drop, wait it out and still pickup + hook + note the existence of addon). If you know that nobody has this hook-extension addon, you can go for the hook even later (I would still keep at least 3s for possible smack on survivor to loose collision and being able to hook - but that is pushing it).
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203294#Comment_3203294
I downed someone by the exit in Dead Dawg, when it was behind the Saloon.
The only hook in range was the one on the corner of the Saloon. It got sabotaged. All four escaped.
one is on corner of a main. Then there are 2 on road's end (both directions). At minimum you should have been able to carry to one of these roads no matter where the exit gate was. Those 2 are always there (well corner hook does not need to if basement is behind main). If the hook wasn't there, it means they preemtively saboed it (or someone died on it) so it wasn't highlighted for you.
Overall this smells more like outplay then actually you having just 1 single hook in whole map
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203284#Comment_3203284
"It's impossible to find yourself in the game where at least 2 hooks are not within your reach"
Again you post an absurd and completely incorrect statement. Do you even play this game?
"Also flip-flop + tenacity do nothing if you are immediately picked up."
Incorrect. If you start moving and recovering instantly, you can recover up to 10% of your bar by the time the killer is able to pick you up (they have to finish their animation and then move again to be on top of you), which gives you 5% wiggle progress automatically. This was enough to make me unhookable in the middle of Lerys, with no hooks already consumed via sacrifices.
Oh I play saboteur in my build in almost all the games I play and know exactly what I am talking about.
In saloon there is chance to get sabo play only if killer is greedy for scourge hooks. Or you are playing 4 man SWF sabo build + you get really lucky (you need to get at least 2 hooks down).
The game is marginally better, but still awful. It's been so many times that I have seen the really small corner upper sections of map having 2 hooks - I can't believe it's even declared minimal 15m.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203263#Comment_3203263
"Currently the game map is the only map with any real hook spawn issues."
That's a ridiculous statement.
Not only is Midwich on par with The Game, if not worse when it comes to reaching a hook, indoor maps are also usually worse than outdoor maps. I've had similar issues on Lerys and RPD, where I've been unable to reach a hook due to walls blocking a direct route.
With the shoe on the other foot, I've also made myself unhookable in Lerys before, by going down behind the desk in the central 'office' area with Boil Over, Flip Flop and Tenacity. Right in the middle of the map, the killer was completely unable to hook me.
Additionally many 'open' maps such as the core maps like Coldwind, Autohaven, MacMillan etc. have corners that becomes deadzones if just one hook is consumed.
So no, hook spawn issues are present on virtually every map, and just as survivors can be screwed by the twin hooks on Coldwind, killers can only be screwed as well.
It's impossible to find yourself in the game where at least 2 hooks are not within your reach (bad RNG and you are in a corner downstairs). Usually you can get to 5-7 hooks. Every "room" has at least 1 hook (sometimes 2) and the middle part can be considered 4 rooms (but they are shared with bottom so there is little bit lower density of hooks here - still there are plenty of hooks).
Also flip-flop + tenacity do nothing if you are immediately picked up. Boil over practically only hides closest hook (so if killer is observant, the perk does nothing) with the small exception to doors (yes lery's is ideal for this) as they can prolong carrying when killer can't get quickly thru the doors - and yet this can be combated again if killer gets the rhythm of boil over to actually move quicker...
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@DBDVulture said:
Survivors tunnel generators and break the killer's three gen setup so the killer in turn is forced to tunnel out survivors.
Remove tunneling from both sides or there will be a problem.
this tunneling meme is starting to become funny xD especially making up definition of something that does not exist
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@Majin151 said:
If you're against a sabo squad with 2-3 petrified oaks you're not getting that hook off especially if two of them run breakout as the survivor will break free and run back down to the basement
Again I saw this spot almost abused as much as rpd library
Every sabo play has inherent risk of getting smacked hard. it's heavy risk reward same as flashlight play. You can get that hook or you can trade survivor. Or you have entire team standing there and nobody is doing gens - so you can chase everyone else - now injured (or dying if you played better), because they have to risk it to rescue carried person. Breakout has measly 5m distance. Considering lounge distance - you can hit them every time if you play around it.
Also having entire team hoping the map will be springwood and basement in shack and killer getting downs in basement and killer not having iron grasp, agi, hangman's, starstruck, mad grit and killer being regular slow M1 kiler without any projectiles (so no nurse, blight, spirit, huntress, piramidhead, pinhead, plague, ...) is quite a huge gamble. Now compare this to taking bubba with IG+agi and facecamp basement (or starstruck range addon nurse for that matter) and let's talk about what is and what isn't fair...
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@Keanuqwerty said:
Im am truly sorry to all the people this may offend, but things have gone too far, and I have to voice my opinion before everyone i know stops playing this game, but i fear it might be too late. Also, before i explain my reasoning i'd like to re-assure that I have played this game 800+ hours (mostly survivour) and watch many content creators, so I know what im talking about.
Firstly id like to point out that this game, always have been, HEAVILY, survivour sided, and winning is completely based on if the survivours make a mistake or not. This is quite obvious when you only play with other experienced players, or if you just play with voice chat and people that at least have good hearing and can learn things without having to do it 100 times. No matter how good the killer plays, the game is always ultimately up to the survivours, if they chose the right path, and they dont make any mistakes, then they can choose if want to win or not. The best way to comprehend this is to imagine 100 matches, and in every match each survivour have combo/ the best perks in the game, each have comms, and the items are always 2 super-kits, a hook-box, and a 'lets-all'-leave-together-key' (the best 4 item combo by far), as even if 2 die the other can escape via the key (which can be grabbed off a dead guy as well). then imagine these 100 matches were all these 4 people against 100 different killers, and each time they chose a map (with a 99% of getting it as 4v1), as well as none of them EVER afk or make a single mistake. I think the escape rate would be close to 80-90%. and to be completely honest behaviour, I am bewildered where you all get your stats. as these stats ive said is pretty much the exact same statistics me and all my friends, and content creators against 4 mans get.
The problem of course is that not everyone is these people, heck, most people are actually noobs, which makes complete sence, as they are the ones most exited about the game and probably got it recently because if a licenced chapter, because their friends play it, or because they think it looked good/fun to watch. but these people dont realise that the people they watch have been playing for thousands of hours and since years been powering through the more and more painful people, asits always been the people using/obusing the game to have fun while wasting/ruining the time of some that just wants to play the game, or someone like me thats palying killer just so i can be a fair killer because of how many unfair survivour there are that are making way too many people cry.
I woke up today, and I am not happy to say i almsot cried thinking of how survivours would abuse the upcoming ptb changed. You all know EXACTLY why the blledout timer is 4 mins, and i STILL have to slug people longer somtimes to secure 2k/3k, but that i am forced to play like this is not my fault, and i am so pissed at anyone that says, just play the game ffs and you will see the state its currently in.
So ive been playing only killer for a while, and most matched I play as killer, regardless of which i am playing, I am getting swf and survivours with MORE hours then me, which is pathetic of your system, as of course i fail AGAIN as i cant even improve as im being bullied all the game which lasts just over 5/6 mins anyways as the others are ALWAYS doing generators while 1 makes ZERO mistakes and runs me arround all game while forcing me to break pallets, which removes the only thing that allows me to catch them. Once i get 1on hook 2 gens are done, 1 unhooks while 1 chase another and hook them for there to be 1 gen left (good outcome) or exit gates powered, the unhooked surv heal in 8 seconds by themselves/ the unhooker if they have the medkit. by the time i go to the last gens they pop, there is a person on each gate, and i hit one of them, so they run to the other and they all bodyblock. The best case scenario, which funnily enough is super common because of how sadistic people have got, is to leave the person on the hook, as this means they can all comtinue working on the final gen (sometimes with the toolbox if its not a sabo-box) while the other goes to a gate, and even if they let the first person die on hookfor some reason, there is still 2 of them, so while i go to the gate, the one on the gen does the other one,and then they take a hit. So best case scenario you get 2 kills as they sacrifice themsleves on hook.
Anyone that thinks "oh, you should jsut play a better killer" should go play a different game. How Dare other people be so rude to me after shitting on me and bullying me while playing so well, then telling me how to play better which are all lies as there was nothing to do, and when i tell them that calmly, and explain that their start is too op and that i wish the game didnt allow them to do it, they just get angry and tellme this is just the game. So how dare the game to require me to play dirty, require me to use only a select few of the hundred perks at my disposal, only to be able to do nothing because im not a ranged killer, and they force me to break everypallet. I am gobsmacked. I am ran arround all game and i stills see so many pallet they could have ran me for 10-15 mins with them, but they didnt need to as they escapes asap. All I want is to play any killer i want to, or heck, I might even get on survivour for the first time in many months, but im too discusted at what so many of them do that i dont want to. heck i dont feel like playing this game anymore if this is what just keeps happening.
If you think that I am an outlier, you are so wrong its not funny
The game needs to be worked on, please stop adding stuff thinking it will fix it.
As the greatest chef of all time told me. "the secret ingrediant, is what you decide to leave out", I feel so very stongly, that dastically changing the game yet again will only be the tipping point for this game
Survivors are constantly being nerfed patch after patch. You proved the point yourself. There are no more (I am exaggerating to prove point if someone decides to take me literally) "baby survivors", because the game has become so damn killer-sided, that anyone who had less then 500 hours in game has just such a bad time, that he quits. Official statistics (that exclude all the DC's making average game way more killer sided) already say killers win way more then survivors (61%).
The reason you are playing against better survivors with more hours and experience and skill is, that the game is HEAVILY imbalanced toward killers. Same skill and experience = killer won. So you need to get much better survivors for them to stand a chance. And even after these circumstances, official number clearly said 61% killrate.
Also I have very hard time believing you are survivor main. Everything you wrote SCREAMS of entitled killer main.
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@Majin151 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203179#Comment_3203179
Ahem badham basement with the basement hooks being in killer shack
I know this spot will be abused again like how it was during the boilover fiasco
No. No problem there. if front of main is guaranteed hook, top side has guaranteed hook, behind of main has guaranteed hook, bottom part has usually (but not guaranteed) hook spawn. All you need to do in case of worst possible place of survivor - break those doors. Most killers make it even if they come to doors, drop survivor, break them, then pick up and then hook (even if this gives opportunity to bodyblock - break them ahead of time and you have 0 risk).
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@Majin151 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202101#Comment_3202101
Remember the old boilover fiasco?
Now imagine the swfs abusing the old broken boilover during that fiasco when they realize base kit unbreakable is a thing
Get ready to see huge maps/maps with huge dead zones and sabo squads with built to last and boilover again
Sure. Same way as everyone is abusing no mither which picks you way sooner then 45s. Oh wait....
@FizzieSprite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203118#Comment_3203118
You got 4 and a half thousand hours on killer and have been playing since early release? man i'd love to see some proof to back that up.
"two hooks within hooking distance"
too many times I've played as nurse or huntress and had no hooks close enough to reach. I'm not running Agi + iron grasp every match cause I need other perks instead. Don't try and show up strangers on the internet, you just make yourself look like a clown. The fact of the matter is this: all players have different experiences, most share experiences. the most shared experience is that there are multiple hook deadzones that survivors constantly exploit, especially if someone's dead and there was only one hook in that corner or if you're on midwich and a hook spawns downstairs in the hallway but not upstairs. "I've got more playtime in killer alone than you do overall" you're not all mighty and powerful, kid, lets calm down x3
Oh I play saboteur 95% of my matches. I know all the hook spawns better then most killers. Believe me. If there wasn't some kind of survivor's play before (breakdown, mass sabo hook, 2 dead players on same part of map) then you are guaranteed (not counting midwitch) that you will have a hook to use.
But for single midwitch - you have several maps where sabotaging hook does nothing. If you do perfect sabo play (suvivor fell in the middle of 3 hooks so everyone is same distance, killer picks hook you are going to sabotage, you sabotage it to his face, you take hit for carried survivor) and you are on the game or in saloon, then tough luck. The rescue does not happen. And it doesn't matter where this happened, killer will be able to hook. Most of the maps have just zones where sabo is not possible. The game and saloon don't have sabo-possible spot anywhere.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203126#Comment_3203126
They've already missed.
The survivor hive mind seems to be rejoicing that "slugging for the 4K" is dead, but that's not what's going on here.
Not only was that not the intention (it's only proposed because the Last Standing Mori system would be broken without it) but it will actually result in more "slugging for the 4K".
The new Mori offerings only reward you if you finish the game with a Mori. This means in order to secure their 20K bonus, killers will needs to: tunnel out two survivors, then slug the remaining two survivors in relay until they manage to get them both on the ground at the same time.
If you thought lying on the ground for four minutes while the killer tried to find your last teammate was fun, just wait until you're smacked down like whack-a-mole every time you get up while the killer fights your 45s timer in an effort to secure their Mori.
yes. Because I will run to my teammate so that killer can make it in 45 seconds (including chase). Wrong. Killer will either stay on my body and wait attempted rescue (giving chance for me to bleed out) - with occasional immediate slap (which he can do already - albeit without need to press M1) or he will be hitting one after 2nd one stands up and repeat - giving survivor chance to be both up = doing gens (even if it's probably lost anyway - if 2 gens are standing).
The real problem starts if 1 survivor decides he will wait out bleed timer and killer decides he will 100% focus the other survivor that he can see - you can't outrun the killer, killer is not looking for survivor, other survivor is not progressing the game. BUT - this can be done already (actually I was in this situation just yesterday).
The only solution for last 2 players with 2+ gens remaining is open hatch spawn (even if survivors get it, hatch should still count as a draw the way it does now) + short EGC after closing (say survivors only have 1 minute to open the gate and exit - to not give too huge benefit for loosing the game). Otherwise you still have chance for deadlocked game.
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@Reshy said:
Maybe they will include a buff to killer which involves teleporting the survivor to the nearest hook once the pick up animation finishes similar to the Cage of Torment. That'd be the best way to counterbalance basekit unbreakable.
Make it perk and I am OK with it. Same way as survivors get anti-camp and anti-tunel perk instead of deleting these unfair tactics
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I have made that comment in other thread. I would prefer something akin to killer-instinct (without a sound, position pinging once every 3-5s) like effect more.
1, it gives imprecise information (same as SWF)
2, can't be blocked by aura reading perks (same as SWF)
3, takes some time to understand who is doing what (same as SWF)
Also killer's position should be pinged in a different way and only if survivor sees the killer. As this would quite accurately resemble the kind of information that SWF already has, it would be pure gap reducing change (instead of buffing SWF just a little bit less then soloQ).
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Ok. But make killer unable to use both M1 and M2 near hooked person. This effect should linger for additional 10s after unhook happens.
If you want to gut flashlights, then I want to gut camping. Campers are inherently toxic anyway.
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@BastardKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202014#Comment_3202014
You shouldn't need a perk to counter a poor design. That is why base kit BT was added. Because you had to have BT to get away from certain killers camping. This is basically the same thing, but for killers. The maps should not be so badly designed with hook placement that certain areas just become impossible to get hooks in. Now, if they swoop in and make a sabo play, fine, but the idea there is 'one map' that has a hook blind spot is just outright bull. Most maps have areas where using a single hook renders it impossible to hook in a certain region again. And no, you cannot 'take them to a further hook', because if that was an option, losing that one hook wouldn't make that area a deadzone in the first place.
Agreed. Make USED reinsurance basekit. Poor design (enough time to camp out survivor) should not be a reason to need to take a perk.
Wait. This is not what you meant. Survivors should bring perk to counter bad design. Killer shouldn't need to. Right? Well wrong. If one side has to keep up with perks to prevent a situation that has like 80% chance of happening, then I see no problem if the other side has to keep up with perk to prevent situation that happens on 1 map under bad RNG and only on that spot.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202145#Comment_3202145
Alright then. I still think while things like people slugging people to death out of spite is an issue, this was not the right way to go about it. And so this was a thread about all the issues I see with this new conceptual mechanic implementation. That doesn’t mean I think other things are okay. Does that make sense?
Yes. That makes sense.
I also don't like these specific changes, but at this point I take anything (even bad thing) that is given to me.
I think ping system and all the other things that refuce gap between swf and soloQ would be time much better spent (but aiming for reducing gap is not giving everyone extra info that swf can utilize better than solo).
2nd thing - the hard part. Making camp/tunnel less beneficial or harder to execute. Right now both of these are almost fully brainless go-to tactics that offer way too big benefit.
3rd - make killrate roughly 50% at all MMR brackets. I think I don't need to explain why.
I don't care about slug at all if these huge problems are solved. Slugging is minor inconvenience in comparison.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202122#Comment_3202122
And you’re rambling about that here to me why? I don’t hold those views in the first place, and I think both this current anti slug idea and multiple other things in this game are issues that should be addressed in a different manner.
My first message was meant for this community and not specifically for you. Even if you protect nurse (not counting her range addons) way too much.
Your message that I am making up strawman was your response to me - and as I noted. It's not strawman. There are a lot of threads here showing, that people indeed think these things. So that part I aimed at you
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202061#Comment_3202061
You done with making straw men?
Nurse not being double stunned made sense in a coding consistency aspect but I disagreed with it from a balance perspective. I don’t think other killers should or need to be as strong as her.
The game is balanced around tunneling/camping/slugging/etc. But if the game can be reworked/improved to a point they are no longer necessary strategies, that would be wonderful. The latest ideas were an awful way to go about it. 90s gen times were dumb. The 10% action speed boost felt like a bandaid in the wrong area.
Maps that are too sided either way need to be changed. This includes ones like Badham and ones like Midwich both. Maps like Gideon need pallets removed and weakened because there’s 25-29 god pallets. Over half could be removed entirely and the majority of the rest should be weakened. In return, there should be more windows that aren’t utter garbage and the map shouldn’t be so compressed.
PT is just another bandaid for other core issues.
Reckless changes like the recently considered ones by devs will drastically hurt this game because it does not properly take multiple factors into consideration.
Shoving unheld beliefs into other peoples’ mouths does nothing.
Those are all the things I read in this forum.t
Most hreads buff killer X compares to nurse or blight and say there killer is garbage in comparison (to paraphrase).
Tunnel/camp especially are very cheap and easy to do. They provide way more value then they should. And once someone starts with it, there is no going back because "survivors are too strong without camp/tunnel". Slugging is just their little brother.
90s gens and you can count the number of threads that gens still run like crazy.
Maps are always just badham this, mothers dwelling that or game pallets. Its very rare someone mentions that maps can be bad for survivors too (shelter woods, midwitch, ....)
PT got so many threads how OP it is already...
How can you call my arguments strawman? Read this forum pls
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Making nurse's stun go at the same time as fatigue is ok. Don't touch nurse she is balanced. In fact make all other killers as strong as her.
Tunneling is tactical thing that needs to stay in game.
Killers need to slug for more then 45s - again it's tactics.
Camping is legitimate skillful tactics.
Killers need help so they don't need to camp/tunnel. 90s gens and 10% speed on every action barely does anything.
We need to remake some maps that ate too strong for survivors like headonfield or RPD. Midwitch is fine the way it is. Also remove some pallets - survivors have way too many of them anyway.
Btw nerf proofthyself. 6s boost on generator for 2 people coop is too OP.
No - extra slow basekit unbreakable will ruin the game....
Well. How easy do you require the game to be?
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There is just 1 map with hook-blind spot and even that depends on RNG. If you don't play midwitch, there's nothing to worry about. If you play saloon, even 2 saboed hooks might not do it and you might still hook the survivor.
Also there are a lot of perks that can counter sabo plays. Starstruck will make it much more dangerous, agi guarantees you have a chance to hook always. Mad grit disables large counter play for hooking. Hangmans works too but there is no additional usage so maybe don't bring that one.
And last but not least - sabotaging is inherently dangerious. Considering end-game mori, it might be even riskier then ever before.
I don't see it so clear-cut doom for killers. And if killrate drops a little, then we are actually getting closer to fair 50% kr the way every multiplayer game should aim for
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@Yoshirama said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201838#Comment_3201838
If Victor gets you down, Charlotte have to find you and in that moment you can recover, especially if you have unbreakable (22 seconds to recover with the new changes) and soul guard to endurance effects, so yeah, it can be hard
I am not talking about twins. I don't play them. I know they slug a lot as it's so effective on them, but I don't really know them as nobody really playes them.
But for Oni, 45 seconds should not be problem almost never. 22s should still not be problem even if this could become one sometimes.
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@CookieBaws said:
They should add a new status, similar to knockout, but without anoying V/SFXs which prevents survivors from moving and recovering on their own for a least a minute. And give this properties to Victor pounce and Oni's club.
Also, while we here, knock out should apply same effect, but with basic attack.
How the hell is 45 seconds not enough for you? I don't play much killer, but oni is definitely on my list. You slug until your ability runs down + maybe one quick chase in special circumstance. 45s should suffice for that
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200797#Comment_3200797
...What?
How on earth is that a false argument?
This isn't a bell curve situation. We aren't evaluating a group who are all starting on the same level. If I were to map this out on a graph, it would likely look more like a gradually descending slope, with kill rates being excessively high and then slowly evening out.
If you wanted actually useful stats here, you'd need to remove the steep initial part of that slope, otherwise - by your logic - Nurse would need a buff.
1, I am talking about player's MMR distribution. You are talking about killrate/MMR. If you say that it should be balanced around far edge on your graph, I am saying you want to have fair matches for 1% of player base and 99% of people to have unfair matches (in this specific case OP killers). You can't balance only for 1% of best players. Most people will never belong to 1% of best players at any time of DND history.
Whats's worse is, that even that 1% that could result in best players (to get fair match) will not invest 5000 hours just to start have fun/balanced matches. As time goes on, there will be less and less survivors, because people tend to slowly leave even best games - and there won't be any new survivors if they will get stomped 100% of time.
2, I am very positive, that nurse already has positive winrate. They buffed her twice recently - patch 5.5 and 6.1. I would be very surprised if her killrate stayed under 50%