Gandor
Gandor
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@BastardKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202954#Comment_3202954
And here's your equal attention cake, survivor main!
Let me teach you some basic math and empathy you seem to lack. If you have a problem and I have a problem, there are TWO problems, not zero. So complaining about your unrelated issue is very crass.
I am talking about your double standards. Some problem that happens basically never is HUGE problem on your side, but the same kind of a problem that happens more often than not is fully OK and intended behavior. And at this point I am quite sure that survivor's side is not getting fix. The complains about this issue are game-lifelong complaint as far as I heard (I don't play this game from the very start). But the killer's version of same thing that has like 1% probability and can be completely countered by single perk (and you can even choose which counter to pick) to manifest itself is HUGE issue that needs immediate fix.
Well. I don't buy it. Why such an imbalance?
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209885#Comment_3209885
Thompson House was fair back in like 2018 or so when the upstairs generator was almost a death trap (in the era when Trapper could block the only stair up). It was however a dumb map because the doors were fixed away from each other on opposite sides and had stupidly strong pallet loops in high density. When they altered the map to the modern version they made it even more survivior sided.
"Map size is not everything."
You're right but all things being equal smaller maps are more fair to the killer. On Macmillan I would always choose : Groaning Storehouse or Ironworks of Misery. Those maps are more fair to the killer with larger natural dead zones and a non busted main building loop (but IoM was once stupidly broken with a built in near infinite window). Coal Tower is smaller on the same tileset but has stupidly high resource density.
"My group does use map offerings almost always"
Don't be surprised then if you pick a map killers hate and the game doesn't load - just saying.
For killer DC during loading - It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. And we don't really care. Waiting time is quite quick so no worries there. Also as noted before - we will rotate all the maps in 1 session. Probably some map more then once but it would be very unlikely to play the same map 3 times. So most of the killers don't have real reason to complain (except the unlucky ones that get the game or springwood offerings).
For map selection - sure. I would be very happy to get you to pick maps for me. Both ironworks and groaning are pretty good maps for us. There are enough resources and good loops. However I am afraid most killers would always choose shelter woods (no resources, possibly 6 pallets on whole maps, some mc millan tiles don't contain anything loopable - sometimes not a single window or a pallet) and rotten fields (huge dead zone at the middle if you don't count risky shack - with no way out to any loop from shack once "depleted", basement is always a possibility no matter where you get downed, low resources with only tiles that can screw you over under bad RNG) for us.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208979#Comment_3208979
it is winning and losing the match. in every game, whenever your MMR raises, it is considered winning and when your MMR drops, its considered losing.
If it were then not only would all the survivors win or lose completely separately but also the killer would have no way of actually knowing if they won or lost the match in the end because their MMR is hidden
that is exactly how it works right now. Survivors win and lose completely separately. All 3 of your teammates can die right now but you can still win by escaping through exit gate. This is what patrick's explanation was talking about. Conversely, you can have 3 of your teammate escape who all win, but you can be left on the hook because you got chased last in the end and your teammate can leave you so you will lose MMR. MMR is hidden. it is indeed true that you have no way of knowing if you lost the match or won the match. Its because your not suppose to care about whether you win or lose since entire purpose of MMR is for matchmaking purposes.
Before the emblem system, there used to be something called the victory cube and it worked similarly to how you see MMR currently. They do not show MMR to prevent belittling other players for being lower mmr and to prevent belittlement of the matchmaking system e.g showing screenshot of rank 1 killer vs 4 purple rank survivors in old emblem system.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208924#Comment_3208924
opening exit gate should be rare. 3 survivors escaping would require the survivor to open exit gate almost every game for 50% win-rate. that is how it is for SWF and higher MMR. you will be winning like 70% of the matches with that idea as survivor. Its still somewhat like that especially for high-level SWF. It occurs like that for solo vs most of the killer because of how weak a lot of killers truly are when the survivor is competent at the game. Unfortunately, BVHR balances around incompetent survivors because that is the majority.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208967#Comment_3208967
i agree with this post. I think killer can dominate low players without a killer power and just normal 115% m/s. At middle-level the killer requires a power but the survivor lacks the fine intricacies of the power so the balance of power does not matter too much. At higher-level, the intricacies of the killer power matter a lot and the killer relies a lot more on the power to be effective because how much better the looping vs 115% is and how much more generator efficient the survivors are at the game. there's less time to chase and it is harder to chase making it hard for most of the cast to perform. huge struggle to play weaker killers.
I just think that generator efficiency is not as optimized for soloq because soloq lacks the coordination in doing healing and generators in efficient time manner despite the looping being fairly similar. As a result, I think that most of the truly high MMR struggles for killer when the killer faces a strong team is SWF. This is why I think that when killer become stronger, they first become stronger to consistent beat soloq and only then have lesser chances to beat strong swf's.
This is all just my opinion in regards to killers.
Balancing the game for 1% of player base (even if it's best players) sounds really elitist. Most of the player base would never experience balanced game under those conditions.
If that is the case why 61% is good idea, then I have much better idea. Nerf killer's noob tactics and buff killer's mechanically/tactically hard things. Create something like killer's version of hyperfocus (very hard to pull off, but gives you best reward if you do). Make the game easier for starting survivors. Basically... Make the game balanced for everyone (this includes swf vs solo gap closing).
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209908#Comment_3209908
The logic to that is flawed. Either easy or risky both can be legitimate ways to win. The same logic can be applied to both sides.
I respectfully disagree. Imagine survivor could hold 1 specific button to freeze himself and after say 5s of using it, he would transform into stone. And after 5s of holding it again, he would revert. If this was possible - how many survivors would try to loop killer? And how much fun would be in playing the game? If somebody didn't (ab)use this mechanics, he would loose way more. But where is the fun in using this thing? And do you thing forum would have less or more threads like camping/tunneling to remove this from the game?
I mean this example is extreme. But it illustrates the point nicely. I think.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208756#Comment_3208756
Thats a strong ideal and a near delusion on some of the reasonings, which I guess boils down to it being too easy and beneficial and so therefore it should be hard nerfed.
Yes.
The specifics are open to discussions. But the idea should be clear. If it's easy and not risky, then it should not win you the game.
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But this would also need some rebalancing or outright deleting 2 certain iridescent addons. I think I don't need to explain that one
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209756#Comment_3209756
-"But why remove people's ability to choose maps?"
The solution is simple if you have two children. How do you make sure a dessert is perfectly divided between the two? One cuts and the other chooses which piece they want.
Change the system so that picking a map lets the opposing side choose which version you get. Example : you pick Corn map as survivor and as Killer I will always pick Abattoir as it is the least broken corn map.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IA7IOMMFRXE2/farm-realms.png
One of these is not like the other. Of these five maps a killer will almost certainly always pick Abattoir over every other option given the choice. Why? Because small maps are more fair to killers that are not Nurse/Blight.
Indoor maps would combine several of the old offerings - maybe combine: Haddonfield,Lerys, Crotus Penn, The Game.
You say i want to go to one of those maps and the killer picks the option (or vice versa).
This way you get a choice and the opposing player gets a choice. Everyone wins?
If you watch a number of content creators their game "crashes" whenever people use certain offerings. That's the current reality because most people are not picking a map based on whim. They have a strategy in mind they want to abuse by picking the map.
Being able to pick the map like this would be about as fair as being able to use an offering before going to a lobby to guarantee which killer you play against. Or imagine if a killer had an offering for : "next lobby can't have any SWF in it."
Simply put : picking the map is broken. If a killer is broken by not playing on an indoor map then maybe certain addons should force an indoor map.
Well... I will be very happy with your pick of abattoir over rotten fields (even if it isn't my favourite Thomson's house - not even largest of the lot). Same way as I will be very happy, that you will not pick shelter woods as it's the largest one from the realm I think. Map size is not everything. Shelter has nothing useful on the edges, so effective map size is much smaller. Same way rotten fields has nothing but dangerous shack with basement in the middle making effective size way smaller.
As for picking the map... My group does use map offerings almost always. But you would be surprised, that most of the time we don't even care to share which map did we pick, because it doesn't matter. My group does it to a, not repeat maps b, to not go into lery's, midwitch or RPD. That's it.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209858#Comment_3209858
Okay, thank you for the clarification. For the record, English is not my primary language, but I have worked very hard to improve it to my current level of usage. So I still have parts where I find certain wordings or phrases ambiguous at times.
I can appreciate that much at least. Thank you for not doing that.
Nah. I am not native. I might have written it wrong (and TBH I could have done the same mistake even if writing in my mother's language)
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209837#Comment_3209837
Your wording was "Sometimes" you bite the bullet out of respect for strangers. The parenthetical about someone else having already hook suicided reads as applying to only the sometimes. Did you mean "I do not throw the game when there’s a stranger unless someone else has already suicided on hook"?
Yes I meaned "I do not throw the game when there’s a stranger unless someone else has already suicided on hook".
The word sometimes was there if the game was thrown by somebody else already, or I am part of 4man swf.
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I would take your version of distressing every single game on most of the killers I play (nurse excluded). 5% bonus speed alone for not getting bloodlust in itself makes it very good perk (better then NOED considering tradeoff between exposed and working all the time without any hex). The other benefits are plus.
For the other petks - i don't care about them really. Keep them the way they are or apply your buff... I will not use them anyway
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209823#Comment_3209823
So, you yourself acknowledge you will and have actively ruined matches for randoms by quitting, yet you still think there should be a way to bypass the penalty for quitting.
??? Did you read what I wrote? I said I don't do that out of respect to strangers. If someone else already killed himself on first hook, then the game is already lost anyway. That's not ruining the game. That one was already ruined.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209806#Comment_3209806
And do you always play a full 4-man SWF with a unanimous decision every single time that happens?
No. Sometimes I bite the bullet out of respect to the strangers (but if I see someone suicide....). I play almost 50:50 solo to 4man swf. Sometimes duo or trio, but not that much.
Lucky for me, nurse is no longer that popular since wesker came live + not everyone plays starstruck range addon nurse with NOED. Also the matches are thankfully short.
Still... Even bad (not baby or terrible one) nurse can win the game with 4k (and really good nurse makes the match last 2-3 minutes). So these games take away energy and will to play another game (even in that short time-window)
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@SuzuKR said:
tfw knowingly throwing the game should have consequences
Well if I play in swf and we all agree (which we do), then the only person to not enjoy his killer fantasy is the killer. And I will not be in a match which's aim is to make my day worse. Again. I am not payed to cater to killers
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209776#Comment_3209776
Those are not comparable in the slightest. One is playing the game. The other is choosing to knowingly throw the game by refusing to play/intentionally playing detrimentally. But it’s rather telling to see how adamantly you need a loophole to quit without getting the penalty for quitting.
And camping is what? Playing the game? Staying at 1 spot looking around? And most killers do it anyway.
Nurse is autoloose or baby and no in-between. It's not fun one way or another. Why should I bother? The target of playing game is to have fun. The target of nurse is to laugh at the survivors getting stomped. Thank you but no thank you...
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209744#Comment_3209744
Even if the option to bypass the DC penalty is removed, you are free to decide to AFK. That is incredibly easy to record and report, and can eventually cause a permanent ban. You would also still be free to disconnect and sit out the penalty for doing so. There just will no longer be a way to ragequit while bypassing the penalty for ragequitting. The existence of the exemption is as illogical and stupid as anyone who thinks they’re entitled to have a penalty-free way to DC.
Ok. I will play really bad then. I just don't know how to fast/mid vault. Or my shift key just broke so I can't run...
You can't make people play the game. Nurse is broken beyond limit of what is acceptable.
Make the game more fun for both sides and people will want to play with you. Cry to the devs that 61% is not enough and starstruck nurse is ok and expect people to suicide. Make devs punish it harshly and people will just uninstall. Nobody likes to get stomped game after game when there is nothing they can do about it.
If you want your killer fantasy, then you play single player games. Multiplayers should not focus just 1 side. I am not payed to play the game. I play it to enjoy myself. If there will be nothing but frustration on my part, then the game makes no sense and I am out. It's as simple as that.
Another note. If all killers were so broken as nurse specifically (and blight to some degree) I would have already uninstalled the game. And it's not just me.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209487#Comment_3209487
From what i played in PTB
So, one match of survivor.
No. At that time 3 and 1 quick killer dc. One made sure to slug us as much as humanly possible.
Yes in that slug match, it was beneficial. But he would not slug like this in normal match. Even that oni I played against had no trouble using his ability for multiple survivors. Just as I expected...
But sure. We need more matches to say definitive last word. But I am pretty sure those 45 seconds (and very likely even those 22.5s) will not be any problem. And should I be mistaken, then the time limit will be raised slightly.
It's not like devs don't adjust stuff based on players experience. You see how brutally they nerfed reinsurance compared to PTB version. Even if all they needed to do is to allow survivor to reject/clean the effect by adding 1 button to solve the end-target they wrote are trying to fix
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@SuzuKR said:
The excuses people come up with for defending ragequitting will never not be hilarious.
"This person dared to play a part of the game, so I decided to actively refuse to play the game and ruin it for all 4 other players."
Removing the ability to hook suicide doesn’t mean you can’t quit if you insist on being immature and selfish because you want to auto-give up playing just cause someone played a part of the game you don’t like. It just means you no longer get a stupid get-out-of-jail free option to avoid the DC penalty for doing what is done for the exact purpose of DCing. It’s genuinely both hilarious and sad that people have this weird sense they should be entitled to have a penalty-free ragequit option.
If other people playing a part of a game makes you react that immaturely and selfishly and choose to actively quit the game, do everyone a favor and go play a single player game instead.
There is no rq involved. It's just unfun. Why loosing time over it? It's not like I am being payed to entertain nurse players. No emotions, but I am just out. I can go afk if that makes you feel better, but I will not participate in unfair match stacked to this degree.
If the only fix devs are willing to male is stunning nurse being less beneficial then her missing aa, instead of proper nerf, then why bother?
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209395#Comment_3209395
22.5 second infinite self recovery is abusable. Go to a pallet and if a teammate hovers around the downed survivor will be able to get away.
Killers - boons take too long to squash. Also killers 45 and 22,5s is not enough to pick up survivor. ???
From what I played PTB, you should have exactly 0 issue. In fact this is a small killer buff, because recovery got slowed down, so you have more time to harass that survivor close by with flashlight.
In fact recovery got slowed down, so if you don't 4-man slug, then this is minor killer buff
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209229#Comment_3209229
A minor problem isn’t one that happens with high frequency and ruins the game whenever it does like suiciding on hook is. Also as for why a killer would dislike it, because some people don’t want a virtually predetermined match result 1m into the game?
Don't play starstruck nurse. You will get games that are not predeternined in lobby
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208700#Comment_3208700
survivors need to play as a team and its supposedly more difficult for 4 players to play perfectly to escape the killer then it is for killer to be successful at killing survivors. The killer getting kills is almost a given as the killer is suppose to be stronger in the 1vs1 compare to 4vs1. the difficult of escaping the killer is suppose to be so great that you often need martyr your own teammates for others to escape. contrary to your opinion, your friend dying for your ability to escape is intended. from gameplay perceptive, that is exactly how you defeat camping killers in the game. You let your teammates die on hook to get generator progress so that you can escape while leaving your teammates behind.
The survivor need to play perfectly for all 4 survivors to escape for the max MMR but they should not need to play perfectly to win. the survivor's objective is to upset the killer's victories. Their objective is not to flawless the killer. The survivor has low expectations to escape so when they do escape, its suppose to be like wow, that was impressive! if the killers are strong and the killer player is good, two survivors escaping should be difficult while 3 survivors escaping should be rare. 4 survivors escaping should very rare.
The killer have win conditions that are very black and white. they either successfully killed majority of the team or failed to do so. In terms of 3 and 4 kills, there is very little difference between the two outcomes. Killers typically slug the 3rd survivor to get 4th survivor in attempt to mitigate the hatch rng and exit gate spawn rng. The hatch mechanic and exit gate spawns is largely luck based with very little skill component in it. The killer that gets 3 kills is not that much better than the killer that get 4 kills. Barely winning for killer does not exist. Killers win or lose with nothing in between. Survivors have more complicate variations in winning because the team aspect of the game.
And here I disagree. I see 0 reason why 2 escaping should be rare. It should be either fair to both parties (hence 50:50 chance to kill = expectation of 50% killrate), or survivors as a team should win = 4 out or they lost. I see 0 reason why "2 surviving should be rare". It makes 0 sense. Why? Just to make it easy for killers to be unfair to survivors? I see no other reason why I should expect to loose.
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buff it to 10m and 45s duration and I am very happy with the perk. This could so much reduce unhealthy camping
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208717#Comment_3208717
Our definition of tunnelling are definitely different. Sparing the lengthy paragraph I had typed. It just isn't a good representation of it.
If the killer is in the position to go back over and re-hook re-down, that's just the killer playing killer. Saying it's unfair is ridiculous. Can't expect special treatment so you can have fun in a pvp game by not being attacked when your an easy target.
It might come as a surprise, but not all killers are facecamping and tunnelling entrepreneurs (it just so happens I am, but that's a coincidence) and not all of them are camping and tunnelling just because they are in the proximity of a hooked survivor.
I never said all of them. But I will insist, that most of them ARE. At least in my MMR range. For this reason going for the safe unhook is not possible. There is no time given by the killer to unhook safely. Killer will never leave hooked survivor to create such an opportunity.
And I agree that this is killer playing killer. Because camping and tunneling is so easy, yet so beneficial. But that is also not fair. Something boring and easy should not be also optimal way how to play the game. The design of game that makes it all of these 3 things easy, beneficial and boring makes it bad design that needs to be addressed by developers (not by killers. But by developers). So again. There needs to be something done to make the tactics risky or hard to pull off (because making it low reward is not really possible under base premise of this game), so that this tactics is NOT OPTIMAL way to play killer...
So to restate it for N-th time... Developers should hard nerf camping and tunneling. One way how to do this is to give much better tools to defend from camping and tunneling (to address camping - make more perks like reinsurence and buff it. To address tunneling give 10s 150% speed to unhooked person without any collision or anything until conspicuous action is done - that way survivor makes it hard to tunnel him right of hook, but said survivor can't abuse it in any way because he can't do gens or bodyblock for teammates).
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208379#Comment_3208379
It is definitely vague. You can throw out a single scenario and have 5 people say different answers.
Its like a said, it truly is tunnelling if you aren't specifically targeting that survivor. Punishing a bad unhook with a re-down and re-hook isn't tunnelling.
It is tunneling. And it will happen 100% of times when killer facecamps or proxy camps. The alternative is to leave that survivor to die on the hook. Again - survivor has no way how to "safely unhook". Killer gave 0 opportunity to do so. And I will agree that facecamp is rare. But proxy camp is not. 70% of games killer proxies (keeping himself inside terror radius distance of hook, not patroling gens, only waiting for unhook to happen and zoning out survivors trying to go for said unhook) - so that he can tunnel efficiently (droping any chase that he gained by proxy camping survivor).
@Morehackersthangta said:
90% of people that get "tunneled" will run like 10 meters after their unhook and crouch in a bush, with cries of pain heard from a mile away.
That is just plain wrong at least at my MMR range. Killers returning to the hook is so common, that I see the behavior you mentioned like in 10% of games instead of 90%. It's much more likely killer is waiting for unhook in close vicinity so that he can efficiently tunnel that survivor out of game.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207557#Comment_3207557
Im fairly consistent. The maps and how the loops are a bigger problem. That's just in stone. Change that, then we could see whats up.
Nah. Maps are totally fine. Camp and tunnel is THE problem that is mentioned here all the time MUCH MORE then maps and for way longer time. Maps are way lower prio then camp/tunnel solution
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208406#Comment_3208406
they win if two survivor escape. the two survivor that escape go up in MMR while other two draw. the reason for draws is that killer would have little reason prevent survivors escaping if all 4 survivor gained MMR. Like this, you technically gain MMR as killer for killing as many players in form of the draw and survivor has incentive to try get all 4 survivor out, but its not completely obligatory. In some cases, its not possible... like leatherface facecamping hooks etc.
In regards to camping. I think purpose of camping was to create time pressure for survivors to unhook their teammates. The idea fails spectacularly. The regression on hooks incentivized the killer to stay at hooks and disincentivize survivors to unhook survivor as result of camping. In fact the best counter to camping is to just leave your teammates on hooks and be ahead of the generator objective compare to the hooking objective. It creates weird racing dynamic of survivors completing generators vs the killer stand still at a hook.
Overall, they did try to create perks to extend hook timers like reassurance but killer complained about it. Personally, I do not think hooks should regress during the game and should only regress after 5 generator are done to prevent 99% exit gates but that is just my opinion.
In regards to tunneling. Killers tunnel because individually hooking survivor offers no reward for the killer. A survivor that is on 2 hook-states is as powerful at doing generator as a survivor on 0 hook-states, so from strategic perceptive, there is zero purpose in ever leaving a survivor alive. Killing the survivor is best form of slowdown for the killer making it the most popular and potent strategy in killer's arsenal in my opinion.
tunneling is related to win-condition for killer. I do not see anything changing in regards to this unless the killer win condition in regards 3 hook=death for the survivor changes. part of the problem comes from killer getting no rewards for isolated hooks which killers have often asked for slowdown perks that trigger on hooking. the idea behind slowdown perks is that these perk overwhelm the survivor if the killer is successful at the chase, but lose potency if the killer is looped for long time. issues with those perks is that you can use tunneling and camping to strength those strategies. Due to their wide-spread use, they have received negative changes, though some of them remain effective.
The only way I can see killer not tunneling is by removing the need to tunnel to win. I think only perk that does that is devour hope because devour hope groups all survivors hook-states and sets it to a single number. in DE, it is set to 5. With that perk, you can hook anyone and as long you reach 5 hooks, you will be able to kill survivors regardless of who you hooked to get to 5. you can tunnel but there is no difference in chasing one survivor from another in term of reward. The perk is a hex so its too unreliable, so in the end killer just tunnel because tunneling is certainty instead of relying on the bad rng totem spawns.
Overall I do not see anything changing in regards to these two strategies. they're part of the game and your better off just improving your chase as survivor to make tunnelling ineffective and doing generators efficiently to reduce effectiveness of camping.
I think you are VERY greedy now. Again why 2 escape is win for 2 and draw for other 2? Why isn't it loose for 2 killed and draw for 2 that escaped? Again. I think it makes more sense to define anyone from survivor died as survivor loss then your I killed 3 and barely won as a killer.
If anything - survivor team did well only if everyone escaped. You wouldn't call it a win for survivors if your friend died. So 2 out is DEFINITELY not survivor win. But to be fair to killers (because making most of games kill nobody because in some games you can kill 4) it is fair to go with 2 kills as a draw. Even if from logical point of view any survivor dying should be considered tragedy and NOT a team win. Anything more then 2 gate out and 2 killed is pure greed from killer's side.
It is totally unacceptable to consider 2 out as a win for survivors. If anything I would rather consider killer's win if he killed anyone, because survivors lost to save their teammate. No way in hell could your definition be considered a win under ANY reasonable circumstances. You still didn't give me single reason why that should be so
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208387#Comment_3208387
they did define by winning and losing in dbd. for killer, the killer wins if they kill a survivor by any means. the survivor wins if they escape through exit gate. the killer one is fine. the survivor one needs a bit of work because their system currently works like battle royal game instead of team-based game which survivor is team based game.
baseball does not have draws. they have something called extra innings. its similar to over-time in soccer or over-time in hockey. like with the other two sports, you can have 100 extra innings. games really do not have draw's. they are usually trying to avoid draws unless unavoidable like chess. I do not know much about board games besides classic monopoly. There is no reason for dbd to have draw's so I have no clue why anyone talks about that.
Because only killers can't accelt draws and you are another one with this mindset. But ok. Let's go at it your way. Survivors win if at least 3 get out. Everything else is lost game. Now let's ask devs to rebalance game around this premise.
And no. I see no reason why I should take your 3k as killer barely win. It's your idea so you should be fine with 3 out being survivors barely won if you don't provide at least as good reason as I provided you for 4 out being only acceptable win for survivors (you would not be happy of event where someone you met died).
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208336#Comment_3208336
i would say camping and tunnel is describing the killer's win conditions. what do you want to change about it? Camping is by product of regressing hooks and the action of camping is standing near 24 meters of hook with intention to push a survivors hook-state from 1->2 or 2->3.
Tunneling is action of tunneling hook-state onto single survivor. saying the killer should not tunnel is saying they should hook every survivor 2 times first, before killing anyone. Not tunneling is least efficient way to win the game as killer.
I am not sure what your complaining about within these two strategies for killer. Virtually every single dbd game has these two actions. I have no clue what your trying to fix. you need more details to explain what is game-breaking about these two strategies? what should dbd change to make you happier in regards to these strategies?
Camping - stand around, do nothing and wait for survivors trying to sweat there heads off to get their teammate out of your reach = low effort, barely medium risk, but huge reward. Tunneling - ignoring everyone and everything - even other survivors body-blocking just to get to easy 3v1 game. Again low effort, some small risk (maybe I am tunneling best looper from all the survivors) but huge benefit.
I am not arguing killers play it stupidly if they camp/tunnel. I say it's cheap and reduces fun to play against. It feels a lot like playing against (subtle) cheater. The player is not guaranteed to win, but you know he has to put in much less effort then you to win it. That feels bad (and that's problem on BHVR not on killers). The fix is by changing the balance between risk * easyness compared to benefit. Or to say it very specifically - make camping and tunneling hard to do or easy to counter.
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@ProfSinful said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206526#Comment_3206526
wahhhh I don't like playing against this killer, I'm gonna ragequit >:(
It's more like - there is nothing I can really do against this killer as she has no real conterplay. And I refuse to be NPC - waiting out if the killer makes mistake (as opposed to me doing something good).
This is unique trait of nurse. Not even blight is this broken. There are very few things you can actually do against him. But not against nurse. You can only make it easier for nurse to misplay. 0 fun. Bad design. Sorry, but I want out of that match ASAP
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207916#Comment_3207916
a draw in games means is no conclusive result. In hockey , for example, if you have even score, like 1-1. in order to resolve inconclusive result, you have over-time until someone scores. Main issue with that is you can have an endless amount of over-times, so in order make the result faster, the teams conclude to do something called shoot out. Its faster to do shoot out then it is to go to endless over-times, however in finals, there is endless over-times.
The same logic is used in soccer. you play for 90 minutes, then you have over-time and if over-time does not produce a conclusive result, then you have shootouts.
draws do not really exist in games. they exist in chess because..... well there is no way progress the game in chess so stalemate exists but in dbd, one side can always progress the game and your objective as killer is to kill all survivors as killer or escape the killer as survivor.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208019#Comment_3208019
someone dying equals survivor's loss is weird dev design in for survivor mmr system. somehow they concluded that everyone survivor is doing 1vs1vs1vs1vs1 as we are playing battle royal games. survivor is 4vs1 so their scoring system needs have some team element. in order to not encourage survivor to die, i think best way is to make it so that survivors draw when they die if 2 survivor get out and survivor gain MMR if they go outside exit gate.
4 escape = killer loses most mmr
1 kill, 3 escape = killer loses 3 values of mmr and 1 survivor loses no mmr(null)
2 kills, 2 escapes = killer loses 2 value of mmr, 2 survivors lose no mmr(null)
3 kills and 1 escape = killer wins 3 values of mmr, 1 survivor draws for escaping the random hatch or too far exit gates.
4 kills = the killer wins 4 values of mmr.
Its easier to gain MMR as survivor then killer but supposedly, the killer is the stronger role so they're favoured to win. Funny enough, most of killer powers in dbd are pretty... weak but it is what it is.
Generally i would assume kill-rate would be around 60/40 because killer can a lot of garbage kills like 1-2 in losing games and a lot of extra kills in end game, but I would guess that the overall win-rate would be around 50/50.
And what about making both roles equal and getting rid of cheap game breaking camping and tunneling, to get 50% kr AND wr. Both should be possible. Also killer camping and tunneling is long-time survivors complaint so current status is not OK. (If you prefer to leave it the way it is, then you are satisfied with bad game)
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/348517/slugging-for-4k
Absolutley not, if you wanna play for hatch thats on you, what they should do is re do the whole mechanic so the survivor has to actually do something besides hide to get a chance to escape, instead of thinking they are entitled to a free escape chance for losing.
That's not the case. I am talking about slugged person/killer (1 and the other situation) to be held hostage. I don't want to be in that game any more, but I am forced to watch it as survivor and seatch for hiding survivors as killer. Both are boring
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@crogers271 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/348394/my-garbage-idea-to-dissuade-tunneling
While thematically I like the idea, practically I don't think it works.
The problem with penalizing tunneling is that, even we say a killer should avoid it for whatever reason, some times it just happens. Sometimes I just happen to run into a survivor again and again without seeing others, sometimes one survivor is just considerably worse than the others (that's not even taking into account suicide rushers). Being forced to intentionally avoid a survivor seems like a bad mechanic.
I think that if tunneling is too powerful/ruining the game, there's an easier solution: Increase the haste effect power/duration. Want to target a specific survivor? You can, but they are likely to take a good deal longer to catch.
At this point, I will take anything that counters deliberate camp+tunnel. The odds of being camped or tunneled are now higher then having regular game - which is sad TBH
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Saboes QoL is long being overlooked. 6.1 balance changes destroying timing is overlooked. Description being wrong on timing. Accidental sabotages. Charges during sabo are consumed immediatelly from toolbox, but stop saboing for 1ms and everything resets. And then there are maps that are totally unfriendly to sabotage plays.
It's like devs really didn't like this mechanics. And it might be so
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@Devil_hit11 said:
i have no clue why people think of draws in video games. Most games heavily avoid draws as it gives inconclusive result. DBD is no different in that regard.
The concept of draws comes from chess. the concept of Stalemate. In chess, its refer to as draw by insufficient material. Both players cannot progress so they agree with draw. The other stalemate is the inability to move your king or other pieces. One player not being able to progress the game therefore game is concluded as draw. draws in video games come from one player being unable to progress the game.
dbd does not have have draws really. there is no stalemate in dbd. they used to have stalemate with hatch stand-offs but this was removed for obvious reasons. one side can always make progress towards their objective. I would say 0, 1k and 2k are loss for killer, the killer failed to kill the majority of the team while 3k and 4k are wins for killer. the killer successful killed the majority members of the team. The survivors are suppose to be at odds to escape, while killer is favoured to kill but their objective is harder. the cookie cutter asymmetric win-conditions.
Closest you get to draws in dbd is if survivor are hiding when two players are left, but I am not sure how common this is. Whisper is killer perk that helps counter this situation but whisper was not one of the perks in developer statistic to be highly popular so I assume these situations are not that common. People do not care about it/put up with longer drawn out games as normal gameplay if the survivors refuses to die. I think what would be good is having killer instinct when two people are left if the killer does not find anyone within 2 minutes but this is separate issue altogether.
I am not sure if 3 generator can be consider a stalemate situation if the survivor is unable to progress them but that is another issue where generator should be so close to each other where killer can make the game go on forever. its also why I am heavily skeptical on perks like overcharge/call of brine that allow killer to compete with survivor's progression of the game in certain instances.
win-rate is way better then kill-rate for general statistic. the 1-2k for killer is for tiebreakers... which are only relevant if you are making tournament-type competitive system which dbd does not really need because its not really competitive. its more casual and the game largely centers around casual-fun.
Someone dying is survivor's loss. Imagine, that you find yourself and your family in trial. Would you settle for anything but getting everyone unscratched out as a win? No? Then 3 out is survivor's loss and balancing team should adjust killrate like this (so 20% killrate should be the target).
Is that unfair to killers? So is your 2 out killer loose lookout. Stop being unfair pls.
@adsads123123123123 said:
Kill rates aren't as useful or accurate as win rates. Killers typically interpret 0-1 kills as a loss, 2 kills as a draw, and 3-4 kills as a win. Kill rates can be misleading. For example, say the results for 3 matches were:
1k
1k
4k
This would result in a 50% kill rate but only a 33% win rate. If only kill rate was shown, it would make a certain killer seem balanced when in reality that killer was losing most matches. The kill rate will likely be higher than the win rate because when a killer wins, it's typically a 4k rather than a 3k. A 3k usually only occurs through hatch escapes or when the exit gates are too far apart to patrol. This theory is supported by data from NightLight (https://nightlight.gg/killers). It can be seen that on most killers the 4k rate is almost double that of 3k whereas 0k and 1 are about the same. This would result in a higher kill rate than win rate.
Additionally, I think that mmr should be based on wins rather than whether a specific survivor is killed or not because DBD is a game based on objectives. A survivor that dies could contribute more than one that survived. Awarding mmr for surviving is like awarding mmr for kda rather doing the objective.
Finally, games where any player disconnects should be excluded. If the killer disconnects, it's 4 escapes for survivors. If a survivor disconnects, it's usually a free 4k for the killer. These games aren't representative of a normal game.
Ok. So make suggestion in a way, that at least 1 person gets out more often. My idea is to spawn open hatch when only 1 person is still standing (and another one is being slugged). Because any game that expects you to loose (the odds are, that you will get killed) is inherently unfair. And this is pvp not pve, so the game should not be unfair to any 1 side
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@Jarky said:
Hook distribution is an issue in some current matches sure, but I very rarely find myself in a situation that often where I can't reach a hook unless a survivor has done a sabo play, which at that point is team-work and people off of gens, so I'm less fussed about it. That said, I have rarely had a couple situations in Midwich/RPD/The Game where this is an issue, so it would be good for them to have a look at it, for sure.
I also personally think that hooks being permanently sabo'd when a survivor is sacrificed is an outdated mechanic that, if this change goes through for survivors to pick themselves up (which I support) should also no longer occur so the killer can't find themselves with hook dead zones where hook RNG has been less than favourable. That said, I also appreciate now with Scourge Hooks that losing one permanently adds a level of strategy to them, which I also don't particularly want to entirely disappear. Maybe the Scourge can disappear if a survivor is sacrificed on it, but the hook remains to balance that out.
I am quite shocked people complain about hooks in the game. That map is so hard to successfully sabo in. I would take most of other maps before "the game" map when attempting sabotages.
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@kizuati said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207533#Comment_3207533
Prove - I don't agree with Scott, personally. The immense strength of Prove Thyself is finishing a gen before a regression can even kick in. If you split up on gens one of them could be regressed. If the gen is already done the Killer can only cope and seethe.
OC - I think it's fine to permanently make one generator's skill checks more difficult. When you kick another one it stops affecting the OG gen with the speed up.
Lullaby - I think you're underrating how strong it could be after this change. Less time to react and more skill check speed will make those tricky.
Proove - ok let's agree to disagree. I personally don't care about the perk so if it's gone, I will not mourn it.
OC - limit it to 1 gen and I am ok with this change. But I think this might be too big nerf in eyes of other killers (I think the perk will be still very good, but no longer meta).
Lullaby - I don't think the effect would be bad. I think even current effect is strong. The problem is, that the effect has very short lifetime given how much time you have to get rid of it + how much time it takes until the perk does anything. To clarify - if you could hide lullaby really well, this could potentially win you the game. But there is very good chance, that the perk never activates or activates, but not long enough for any survivor to miss any skillchecks.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207377#Comment_3207377
Camping, or sitting near the hook merely to wait for action to occur, is too rewarded for the effort put in. Similarly hard tunneling off of hook, or chasing the survivor who was just rescued, ignoring others even when they try to bodyblock, is also too rewarded for the effort put in. I would prefer those to be high risk high reward strategies, rather than some of the more optimal with a low to medium risk (perk dependent) high reward. I don't have a problem when the reward matches the risk, but they are grossly disproportionate at the moment. I also don't have a problem when those people take a risk by tapping a gen or a totem after unhook, telling the Killer they are fair game once again. Personally I wouldn't consider healing yourself to be a conspicuous action until the heal is completed. Killers have plenty of flexibility in how to down survivors, and restricting the worst case scenarios, or rebalancing the risk reward structure, wouldn't be negative at all.
I personally consider an early 1st kill when the Survivor dies as a result of 5 hook actions or fewer, and an early 2nd kill at 6 hook actions or fewer. While there also can be fair early kills, like the above example of tapping a gen immediately after unhook, most of them are unfair. When an early kill is completed it typically snowballs the game into a Killer victory. When the Killer uses those low risk high reward strategies they didn't win in a skilled manner. (See facecamping Bubba perked out for it.) When skill is the primary vector from which Killers get kills, then BHVR can adjust Killers further to reach their desired 60% kill rate. Basically, cheesy methods to artificially inflate kill counts are keeping Killers from getting the buffs they deserve. If those abuse cases were removed, then the bad Killers who rely on that will have more accurate kill counts. Once the numbers are recalculated, then BHVR can look into another 6.1.0 styled patch that would further help Killers.
Curtailing abuse cases already happens with the mechanics. When a Survivor is in chase they can only vault a window 3 times. This is to prevent the abuse case of a god-tier loop. Similarly, if we get camp/tunnel/early kill curtailing mechanics then it will result in a net positive in the long run. If you want to say Killers should have the flexibility in how they play with these type of abusive mechanics, then I would expect you to stay consistent in that opinion and allow Survivors infinite window vaults in chase. That way all players can have flexibility in how the play to win. Survivors prevented from abusing windows can only vault three times, just as an anti-tunnel mechanic might be something like Spirit styled invisibility+collision loss for 10s after the unhook (ended short on conspicuous actions). That way if the Killer wants to tunnel they have to actually seek out the Survivor again, and aren't just gifted the rescued Survivor on a silver platter.
Overall my message is I want the reward to be proportionate to the risk. I also want weaker Killers to be buffed to compete better against the best Survivors or even closer to their fellow Killers, and people padding the stats with low risk high reward strategies are preventing that from happening. Feel free to let people camp and tunnel, just have it be sub-optimal and poorly rewarded forms of gameplay. Reward interaction with everyone, instead of only 1 or 2.
fully agreed on everything but 60%. That is unfair. 50% is what they should strife for. Same way as their MMR balancing is made for 50% (1 win and 0 loose is 0 MMR).
@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207428#Comment_3207428
Problem with all of that. It happens, but in a smart way.
My last game, Plague had me second hooked. Had her blood vomit.
Knew survivors were nearby or would come back. Feng came back didn't hook trade even though she hasn't been hooked. I died on hook. Sure, plague camped, but it was completely fair as she had all the reason. Skilled enough to know she could run my timer.
Another game, my own. Was able 2 early hooks on a Rebecca. First time regular down. Second time a punished the unhook, not particularly bad, but I wasn't in chase and was close by. She was in the open. Woulda gotten the third hook, but I wasnt enough when I saw Zarina's scratch marks, still tried missed the saw though (Cannibal). Most woulda called that tunnelling. Well, it was fair. Rebecca dc'd when i caught her again. Wasn't even going for her. Yoichi ran me to them. Hooked him she was close by. Ran right past a Yui to her since she was still injured.
Point is, can't look at the bad. Abusable isn't the word I'd use. Sometimes killers are out in the situation where whatever their doing works. Doesn't mean there abusing anything. Another game Legion slugged someone and went for another chase. Maybe it was because she was in the Lampkin house or he has seen the survivor so he left the slug to chase.
Survivors can't infinite loop for good reason. Being able to stall for that chase is lame. They don't even need they 3 jumps as they can just go to the next loop guilt free already.
So survivor abusing vaults is bad but killer abusing tunnel is not? Let me give you same example - you can outplay survivor at shack. It's hard, but it is doable + it can pose high risk from basement. So it's not abuse to use shack, because it's legitimate play that should get high reward for low effort (no need to change tiles). Or looking at it from different perspective - this is problem and killer being able to easily snowball the game from 3v1 (and unsafe unhook is mistake that survivors can make, but killer can force it by camping™ and then tunneling to finish the deed - where survivors don't have a way how to prevent this) is also problem that should be addressed. Pick one, but be consistent.
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@RavenzZ said:
Now if the new base-kit Unbreakable changes go through, which I'm sure they will in some form at least, there needs to be a fix to TERRIBLE hook distribution on some maps.
Things like the corners of Haddonfield and Badham, and the entirety of Midwich and RPD absolutely need to be changed because it is physically impossible to hook a survivor in some locations on these maps. I think a great fix to some maps would simply be making it so that when a survivor is sacrificed on a hook the hook only breaks for a short time and then comes back, similar to how Saboteur currently works.
If this isn't changed before base-kit Unbreakable is added then it will result in a toxic mess on some maps where even without a sabo-squad it is physically impossible to hook someone, and then if left on the ground they will simply pick themselves back up.
And I can already see (hopefully very few) people saying "Well just run: [PERK] and it will be fine!" but no, a player being forced to run a perk to make doing their objective even possible is nonsense and a silly argument overall.
Outside of midwitch that still gets highest killrate of all maps. I haven't seen single case of survivor wiggling free if killer did not do some kind of mistake (RPD library and buffed boil-over excluded - but that got fixed looong ago) or if it wasn't some good play from survivors (yes 3 people blocking hook in endgame is valid survivors strategy how to help last carried survivor). There are still so many tools for killer (forced stagger effect, zombies, doing 2 steps for 1 hook and then going for different one, checking if survivors try to sabo) + to get this survivors must leave generators which in a long run is killer's win.
Also hook spawns work so, that -> just try to get a successful sabo play on saloon. I dare you. I am pretty sure you don't play sabo build ever, because you would not be able to write the things you have written. Even perfect sabo play means nothing on the game or saloon (or almost all the maps with little bit bad RNG). If anything, the 15m minimal hook range should be higher.
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Proof - well I subscribe to Scott's video about this one. I don't understand why so many people bring it. From my point of view there are much better perks (even gen oriented perks) that don't force you to coop generators (and cooping as the start of the match is bad even if there was absolutely 0 speed downside to it - which is not entirely true even with proof). But as I stated before - I would not be sad if the perk was fully deleted. It's way too overrated in my eyes.
OC - yes it deletes hyperfocus. You don't see this perk that often if you are not very high MMR anyway. But sure - if you want a perk that counters this one, I have no objections. But to be fair - the effect should get time limit (current OC is disabled when survivor touches gen - so new one should have time effect?).
Also lullaby - the biggest problem with this perk is, that it is active only after all the hex spawn points are well known. The perk will never be good under current conditions or even after your change. The devour hope is also active only after you hook 3-5 people, but the effect is WAY stronger. Making dhope a gamble that can pay out. For lullaby there is no effect and it will probably fall. If you are lucky, the effect is strong but not really game changing (and making perk synergies with such a gamble is meh - that's also answer to your OC change). I think it would make more sense if lullaby was unlit until you hook 1st survivor. This would make it kind of unique in contrast to all the other (but NOED) perks and provide the benefit it actually needs most (after 1st hook, killer has pressure and it's harder to look for hexes).
Plague - well then make her corrupted fountains (maybe all 3 in case of apples) spawn on more central fountains. This I think is a fair change. No need to do anything more.
Predator - as stated before - even if you don't change interaction with lighweight, predator would still be counter to it. Because it adds most-important seconds on it (initial seconds have way more value then last seconds).
Agi - yes it works thematically. But not balance-wise. Agitation is already very good. If you want to buff it, you would also need to nerf it somehow and that makes less sense to me.
Dance with me - I think it would be still a bit too strong to have both effects active even if it was once per 40s. And yet it would be too weak if you make it also exhaustion perk. Maybe make it 60s cooldown and then it could probably work (or change it again after we see some usage).
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@kizuati said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207487#Comment_3207487
Yeah I don't like healing and I think it should be focused on altruistic healing instead of self-healing. Those are my two cents. There were a bunch of buffs to altruistic healing here.
Wesker - I'd rather see a buff to his chase to compensate rather than not nerfing his infection, personally.
Unnerving - It's just there to throw you off, doesn't need to make much sense. (Fun Fact: This used to be a bug on this perk)
Oni - I really hate how you can just go to Gideon and not have a power until the last gen pops. If he needs a slight nerf to account for his kick speeds,I'm fine with that. I would just like to be able to use my power.
Nemesis - Is it, though? I would like to see the perk occasionally beyond pure obsession builds.
Prove Thyself - Sure,get rid of the BP part if your want to. I would just like for prove thsyelf to require a bit more effort as it practically makes stacking on gens 100% efficient.
Overcharge - I think you're underrating this perk. Combo it with Lullaby and you're not gonna have a good time + hyperfocus will be countered.
Plague - Plague's one corrupted fountain being super RNG is a huge issue and standardizing that is good,imo.
Thana - 100% could go for larger numbers. Those are just safe ones so the perk doesn't get out of hand.
Overwhelming - Yeah,I suppose? I would like the perk to be used,but I guess it would be better off with a complete repurpose.
Fire Up - Killers do open lockers? There are already other perks that speed that up like Iron Maiden and pre-nerf shadowdance on wraith.
Predator - Doesn't deactivate it but directly counters it. Didn't know how to word it better tbh.
Agitation - I just went along with the theme a little bit. Agitated killer is trying to get the survivor picked up asap.
Keys/Maps - As I mentioned I would like them to be one uniform item for aura reading stuff. Just couldn't be bothered to do it for this one.
Dragon's Grip - Might need toning down. I am looking to see it rise in usage,though.
Dance With Me - Do note,once you vault any window this perk deactivates for 40 seconds.
NOED - My reasoning behind the haste removal is because how many Killers rely on it as a crutch. If you remove the haste effect,they won't instantly get a bloodlust 1 basekit,so they'll actually need to learn how to chase without.
Healing is integral part of survivors. If you remove it (that's what you are doing for everyone but SWF), then that's huge buff to killers. Way higher buff then whole 6.1 patch in my opinion. I mean - not for highest MMR, those guys already don't need healing perks that much, but for high-to-low mmr this would create killer stomp fest.
Wesker - you can think of it as built-in slowdown. There is nothing wrong with such a thing. You want the match to progress a little longer then just 5 min genrush. Also his current ability is dodgeable and loopable which is huge fun. If you make his ability too oppressive to compensate for lack of slowdown, I am pretty sure the killer will be less fun to play against. And with your proposals, I know that I would very rarely cleanse myself out of his power (because time wasted would be just too big compared to not being 1hit from his hard-to-land ability). As stated - not a fun of this one.
Unnerving - well you already need your focus when sabotaging so I understand the aspect. But again - you want to give warning to skillcheck, then said skillcheck and it needing to run for whole circle to get to the end and make all of this within 2s that sabotage can take. Well. Not a good change. As I already stated. I don't want skillchecks on actions that can take less then say 5 seconds.
Oni - yes he is map dependant. It's not just gideon. But on the other hand - you don't want to meet Oni on shelter woods. Should we nerf Oni on shelter because he is too much on that map? Or leave shelter + gideon be? I opt in for the second option - and I say it as someone who (when not playing survivors) plays Oni quite a lot.
Nemesis - sure. You can buff it some. But unlimited unconditional oblivious is way too strong. Make aura effect after stun +3s or maybe even +10s (yes nurse is disabled so this can work now) longer. But that's it.
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Fire up- My bad. LOL I read lockers and thought chests for some strange reason xD Then it's OK the way you wrote. I have no issue with it
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207150#Comment_3207150
No Boil Over, I specifically checked for that when I picked her up. I was doing a Clown daily and ended up on the Ironworks of Misery map. Mikaela went up the stairs into the room in the main building. I broke the door and picked her up and discovered that the hook inside the building didn't spawn and after maneuvering through the door and dropping down there was no hook near enough to get to. (After I downed her a second time, Mikaela actually got birds up there. She didn't make any attempt to crawl to another survivor to get picked up.)
Doesn't help that on controller even without Boil Over it's almost impossible not to get stuck on doorways for a few seconds when carrying a wiggling survivor, so the distance I can make from inside that room is shorter than it'd otherwise be.
I've seen it happen to other killers on Ironworks of Misery. As survivor, I've watched killers down a survivor and try to carry them over and over again. Sometimes hook spawns are bad on The Game map, too. Worst is Midwich, of course.
Ah. Then it's clear. Main spawned basement. You didn't notice this, because the elevation difference was just too large for you to notice. It is 100% possible to carry survivor from top room to basement (as you can drop thru hole in a ledges).
Also you could let her wiggle to 70% and then drop her of from a height. She would wiggle out, but get staggered - making the chase take like 5s to get her again in better possition. But I am pretty sure you didn't need this trick.
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Old one was way better. New one lacks any good loops. The only thing it has are pallets. Get a killer that does not care and the map is very hard to play (especially considering guaranteed 3gen with current main).
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Agreed. Silent bell is fine for iri addon. Unlike (already nerfed) pinky finger. If anything, nerf pinky finger again
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@HagAdamMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207071#Comment_3207071
I think The Twins would be actually scary if survivors couldn't drop pallets or vault windows while Victor is on their backs, it could actually give Charlotte a lot of anti-loop potential if she catches up to them.
I can't stop laughing about the idea of Victor pouncing survivors to the ground and biting them, that animation would probably be hilarious, but I don't think it should last long and the nearby survivors triggering Killer Instinct would be too much information for Charlotte.
Well I don't know how much you play this killer, but twins are actually very very very strong killer as is if you know how to play them. The reason why nobody plays them is actually because they are clunky (freezing you to wait too often) and they make for very boring slugging 30+minutes gameplay. I am pretty sure buff is not the answer for this killer. They should be completely rewritten to be more enjoyable for both sides.
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@kizuati said:
Hello this is styled this as a developer update for funsies - if you haven't seen Part 1 - click here.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1DQYWD3D7UHS/image.png
We're back with a scheduled continuation of our unscheduled developer update,focusing on many upcoming changes coming to Dead By Daylight soon in the 6.9.0 PTB. In this edition,we'll cover technical updates to the game,perk updates,spawn logic changes & more Killer changes.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZM7XTJ7NJBYK/image.png
Generator Speeds:
A lot of KIller players have been in this situation. You start the chase with a survivor,down them rather quickly,get to a generator that's about to get done and stop it at the last second..only for 2 more generators to activate in the distance. Sucks,right? Well we're going to address this,but not the way you think.
Going forward we're going to be retiring the Shroud offerings. This is due to us updating the Survivor spawn logic to either spawn in pairs of 2 or all together. This will naturally force survivors either to inefficiently stack up or to spend time spreading out instead of lucking out with their spawn. Believe it or not,this will massively skew the game's start towards the Killer's favor and allow them to pretty effectively apply pressure.
Additionally,some problematic items and addons in regards to generator speeds will be addressed in this mid-chapter as well.
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Items: Buffs,Nerfs,Reworks
It's been a hot minute since we did a major change to the item roster in Dead By Daylight and we think it's just the time to do that.
Medkits:
- Camping Aid Kit - 16 charges,bonus speed for healing others is 33%,self-healing speed reduced to 75%.
- First Aid Kit - 16 charges,bonus speed for healing others is 33%,self-healing speed reduced to 85%.
- Emergency Medkit - 16 charges,cannot be used for healing others,self-healing speed reduced to 105%.
- Ranger Medkit - 32 charges,can only be used for altruistic healing,bonus speed for healing others is 45%.
Dev Note: Medkits' time efficiency has been significantly over-performing for a while and required a substantial nerf. We hope these changes will now bring them back in line.
Toolboxes:
- Worn Out Tools - No Changes.
- Toolbox - Charges increased to 24.
- Mechanic's Toolbox - Retired.
- Commodious Toolbox - Decreased repair speed bonus to 40%,added a 15% sabotage speed bonus.
- Engineer's Toolbox - Charges increased to 18,removed sabotage speed penalty. Increased great skill check zone by 5% relative to it's current size.
- Alex's Toolbox - Removed the ability to be used on generators.
Keys:
- Broken Key - Increased time of use to 30s.
- Dull Key - Increased time of use to 15s.
- Skeleton Key - Decreased time of use to 25s.
Maps
Maps are being retired this mid-chapter. In the coming mid-chapter we seek to rework maps and keys into one uniform item instead.
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Survivor Perk Changes
Meta Perk Updates:
- Prove Thyself - No longer provides the repair bonus to your teammates. For the same result as pre 6.9.0 PT speeds,all survivors repairing a generator will have to sacrifice a perk slot. Now grants Objective points that do not count towards the objective cap.
- Dead Hard - No longer uses the Endurance status effect. The perk can now be used in Deep Wounds,but if you're not in deep wounds,the perk will put you in them upon tanking a hit. This change mainly seeks to make DH work while you're being tunneled.
- Boon: Circle Of Healing - Removed the Self-Healing ability. Upped the healing bonus back to 75%.
- Iron Will - Removed the exhaustion aspect of the perk. Additionally we have now returned to additive calculations of survivor grunts,which means with No Mither and Iron Will you can be completely silent once more!
- Reassurance - Now works once per hook state,instead of instance.
- Hyperfocus - The perk's synergies have been reduced. Now when attempting to use it with Stake Out and toolboxes at the same time,the perk will simply not trigger Stake Out's effects. Using it alone with Toolboxes or with Stake Out will still work. This limits it's power,but still allows for synergies with either Stake Out or Toolboxes,but not both.
- Self-Care - Allows you to heal yourself with a medkit at a set 100% speed with a 50% efficiency bonus.
Non-Meta Perk Updates:
- Buckle Up - Once a survivor has been slugged for 16 seconds,all survivors can see each other's auras until the survivor is picked up by the killer or survivor. Boost recovery speeds by 33% in a 18m radius of you.
- Dance With Me - Allows you to get a fast vault regardless of your angular momentum.
- Calm Spirit - Removed the speed penalty.
- Decisive Strike - Stuns the killer for 3,5 seconds,disabling their power for 6 seconds. Activates on both hooks. This change limits it power on weaker killers,but stops the high mobility ones from instantly catching the survivor they're trying to tunnel with their power. As the perk is deactivated in the end game,there is no one affected by it but tunneling Killers.
- Head On - Reduced the exhaustion timer to 35s.
- Kinship - Added visual indicator on the survivor portrait,that's only visible to other survivors.
- Bite The Bullet - Hides the auras of the healer and the healed person while the perk is active. Now also applies in reverse,whenever you're being healed.
- Visionary - You see generator auras within 48 meters. The 3 generators closest to each other are highlighted in a white aura.
- Deja Vu - You remember the mistakes that are about to happen. Whenever you're afflicted with the exposed status effect,see it before it's revealed to others and once per trial,ignore the exposed status effect.
- Solidarity - Boosted conversion rate to 66%,added visual indicator.
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Killer Perk Updates:
Meta Perk Changes:
- Call Of Brine - Reduced regression rate to 175%. Removed the informational aspect of the perk.
- Dead Lock - Reduced time for which a generator is blocked to 25s.
- Hex: Pentimento - Reduced generator speed penalty to 15%.
- Jolt - Now works with special attacks. Based on a 32M radius around the survivor going down.
- Overcharge - Removed the difficult skill check. Now speeds up generator skill checks by 15% and removes the great skill check. Overcharge's secondary effect (beyond the regression) can only apply to one generator at a time.
- Eruption - Reduced the incapacitated status effect to 10 seconds. Reduced the cooldown to 23 seconds.
- Hex: No One Escapes Death - Removed the haste bonus.
- Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance - Once more no longer makes the survivors scream.
- Dead Man's Switch - Upped to 50 seconds.
Non Meta Perk Changes:
- Iron Grasp - Allows you to lunge while carrying for 50% the distance.
- Fire Up - Increased the bonus to 5%. Now applies to hooking,stomping boons and opening lockers.
- Brutal Strength - Now affects stomping out boons.
- Agitation - Increases pick up speed by 10%.
- Mad Grit - Allows you to drop a survivor once without a wiggle progress penalty.
- Grim Embrace - Reduced unique hook requirement to 3. Upped the generator block time to 45 seconds. Upon activation all generators lose 5% of their progress before blocking.
- Hex: Huntress Lullaby - Now caps at 3 stacks. At 3 stacks survivors suffer from 35% faster skillchecks with reduced warning time.
- Hex: Coup De Grace (Formerly Coup De Grace) - Permanently increases your lunge speed by 50% as long as the Hex totem is standing. Revealed to the survivors once you injure a survivor with a lunge attack.
- Overwhelming Presence - Instead of being based on the TR,the perk works in a flat 32M radius of you,unless you're undetectable. Additionally,survivors passively lose charges around you at 25% of the normal rate.
- Oppression - Now also allows you to kick a regressing generator. Cooldown reduced to 40 seconds.
- Dragon's Grip - Has a cooldown of 15 seconds upon downing the exposed survivor. If the survivor isnt downed,suffer no cooldown.
- Lightborn - No longer stops flashlight beams from thinning,tricking survivors into thinking you're getting blinded.
- Nemesis - Your obsession is permanently afflicted with the Oblivious status effect.
- Dissolution - Works on a flat 38m radius instead of the TR.
- Predator - Scratchmarks stay lit for longer. Also stops the perk Lightweight from masking the survivor's scratchmarks.
- Starstruck - Increased exposed duration to 40 seconds.
- Thanatophobia - Now caps repair,cleansing and healing speeds at 95% of the normal speed when there are two or more survivors injured.
- Unnerving Presence - Causes skillchecks to appear on more interactions like Sabotaging,Mending and Opening Exit Gates.
- Beast Of Prey - After 15s in chase,you no longer have a red stain. This effect lingers for 5 seconds after losing chase.
Killer Updates - Part 2
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The Deathslinger
- Increased movement speed to 112,5%.
- Reduced mending time to 5 seconds.
Dev Note: Caleb has received a substantial but deserved nerf in the 5.3.0 patch and we think it's about time we give him some more love. He's the first Killer in-between the 110 %and 115% speeds and we're excited what people think of his current balance.
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The Blight
- Reduced movement speed to 110%.
- Now suffers a 2 charge penalty after hitting a basic attack.
Dev Note: The Blight's extremely strong catch up power (especially with the reduced injury speedboost) has proven a bit too oppressive. We aim to make him weaker as a regular Killer,leaning into his power more.
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The Plague
- Slightly reduced movement speed while using the Vile and Corrupt Purges.
- Significantly skewed the baseline corrupted fountain to spawn towards the middle of the map.
Dev Note: We found Plague to be a little bit too forgiving while using her purges in terms of distance. However we wanted to stabilize her RNG by focusing her one fountain in the middle of the map.
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The Mastermind
- Lowered the Hindered status effect on full infection to 2%.
- Removed infection progression in chase.
- Slowed infection progression by 15%.
Dev Note: We felt it was too easy to tunnel survivors out when they were already infected - it progressed fast and the hindered felt very strong. It was deemed unhealthy to have such a strong hindered effect - the insta-down from his power is enough deterance on it's own and we also slowed down the infection rates,stopping it entirely in chase. We don't want the infection to overshadow his entire power.
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The Pig
- Increased Crouched Speed to 107%.
- Decreased the time to go into Ambush by 15%.
- Halved the Jigsaw Box search time.
Dev Note: The Pig has started overperforming with the 6.1.0 patch and we decided to nerf her overperforming aspect,while buffing her in-chase abilities.
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The Oni
- Slightly increased blood orb drop rates.
- At the start of the match before getting in a single injured state,The Oni benefits from a 15% increased pallet kick speed. This is signified by a slight roar as he kicks the pallets during the early game.
Dev Note: The Oni is a great and fun Killer,although some survivors developed a strategy of pre-dropping every pallet at the start of the match,effectively never giving Kazan his power. We decided this was a little bit too unfun.
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PERFORMANCE UPDATES:
We'll be honest. Dead By Daylight is not running as smooth as we'd like it to. It's been pretty difficult to try and work with our existing code and we know a lot of you have been suffering from performance issues so we have multiple things upcoming for you all.
First: We're incorporating AMD'S FSR 2.0 into the game. This allows us to render at a lower resolution and bring it back up to your native one. This will be now automatically enabled with the auto-adjust feature on the resolution slider. (You'll now be able to even scale beyond your native resolution for better antialiasing just ticking the box asking you whether or not you want to push resolutions higher when your desired framerate is reached without your GPU dying)
Second: We'll be unlocking the framerate on PC by default. We want to push for 120 FPS to become the norm of smoothness on computers and we're hoping FSR 2.0 will help us to achieve that along with other changes under the hood.
Third: We're starting a large re-factor of the game's underlying systems that requires your support. We're going to be releasing a cosmetic bundle for a higher price than usual soon as a DLC. The profits from that DLC will go DIRECTLY to this. It's a lot of work,but we're slowly moving more and more game logic from the client to our dedicated servers. There are many benefits - less hackers,less lag,less performance taxes on your system!
Fourth: We're adding a lower graphics setting option for older generation console players. With us optimizing our code,some players might want to push the framerates even further with lower graphics settings. We're not taking that option away from you. In fact,we'll soon be overhauling our graphical options menu to include more detailed settings and newer AA methods.
With that... I hope you enjoyed this alternate reality train into a world where BHVR actually cranks their work up to 11 and we all enjoy the best version of DBD we could hope for. Feedback is welcome in the comments. Part One of our imaginary dev update trip can be found here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/348404/my-dream-patch-to-try-and-fix-dead-by-daylight-part-1
So you basically want for survivors to be injured whole game (especially in soloQ and lower MMR levels). Destroy medkits, destroy CoH and destroy SC. What other options do I have? Pharmacy to compete with other survivors and inner healing to make pentimento big again. To compensate, make DH even easier to use but keep everyone injured all the time. I don't like any of this one bit. DH requirement included. I want more ways how to heal. Not less. This reduces all my options (worse medkits, SC was already bad by devs and is totally useless with your change and butchered CoH (same way as base shattered hope would butcher it) ). Also if you make this work, you need to nerf all the hit&run killers (poor weak sadako is suddenly very strong and I dread seeing wraith - especially with silent bell addon).
Also proof thyself - I don't care about the perk because I never use it - I am pretty sure it's overrated. 6s per gen if doing it in duo is almost always not worth it. But with your change you could have just deleted it altogether. Devs didn't want perks to be taken just for BP. You made this perk provide only limited BP.
Keys - please remove them already. They are useless. Worst item you can get. And dull keys actually block usability of chests and make it huge sadge when you find them (actually I feel the same for any key as hatch got nerfed hard). The biggest buff to chests possible would be to actually get rid of keys. Chests would still be waste of time, but sometimes they would be useful.
Maps - another thing I don't like. Personally I don't use those (but my SWF does so I don't play them in my solos), but it can be fun to face scratchmirror on lery's. It will be quite boring if you face scratchmirror on mother's dwelling, and you will probably never see scratchmirror ever again if you remove map offerings.
Dance with me - you would make it really OP just for secondary effect. You have no idea how much speed bonus this would actually provide. There are some windows that are never usable. With this perk, they would suddenly become VERY good (e.g. the game and the window next to 1 exit gate). I mean the idea could be nice, but I would not add this to any usable effect. This one should be perk on it's own with quite some cooldown (like 30s or more).
Head on - well I think you forgot about bully squads. 35s could create some very unfriendly environment for many killers.
Overcharge - well I don't like this version. It makes it easy for everyone (15% without great means the effect does not need to be there at all). Basically if you have more then 10 hours in game, the effect boils down to you have no greats.
Eruption - I think 10s is a bit too weak. Make it 15s from 25s.
NOED - it does not need any more nerfs. If you remove haste, you can remove aura of it or vice versa. The only possible problem with NOED is, that killer can get very lucky and be able to hook next to the actual totem making it rather cheap single kill. But I can't think of any reasonable solution to it. Maybe if this perk activates on 1 totem, then make this perk spawn additional totem that is far away from last lit totem (like brand new 6th totem) and if survivors cleanse any one of those, the perk deactivates (similar to hounted ground, but with 1 totem that did not exist before). But to compensate for this nerf, remove aura and keep haste.
Fire up - what do you mean opening lockers? Killer don't open lockers. Should fire up give away it's effect by slowing survivors that open lockers? (this will actually help survivors that like to use flashlight for saves - they will know to adjust flash save timing)
Agitation - I don't think it needs any buffs. Contrary to Iron grasp, this perk is used quite a lot. Especially with starstruck, scourge hooks and other TR perks. I mean - it's not too strong, but adding 10% speed to miss flash timing also on this perk is quite a huge buff.
Overwhelming - I see better franklins and additional effects to augment it. So flashlights and medkits will be useless (you no longer can get full heal). Loose the passive part please.
Dragon's grip - well this is very strong effect if you want to reduce cooldown that brutally. Personally I think this perk needs only longer effect (longer exposed time) and does not need any other adjustments.
Nemesis - way too strong. It's not like the perk is not being played without any buffs. Oblivious status effect is already very strong thing and you want to slap it onto already good (even if not meta) perk. I mean the perk is rarely used on it's own, but it is part of many interesting builds that need obsession. Rancor being just one example.
Predator - I don't think any perk should work in a way that "deactivates perk X of survivor". They counter each other, but predator basically always wins, because it applies also on survivors that don't have lightweight and because any additional second is less valuable then previous one. I mean the perk might want to get some buff, but this is not it.
Starstruck - sure. But part 1 about disabling nurse is a must. Can't buff this perk with current nurse.
Thana - I would go for larger number. 5% is not that much. on 90s generator it's 4,7s. Make it 4% for single and 8% for 2 injured survivors (on all the actions it provides - making it 7.8s on generator (btw that's more seconds saved then proof thyself gives survivors)) and the perk is fine.
unnerving - makes less sense on sabotage - that interaction is short and possibly shorter then the end of skillcheck zone. Also that would be the same as giving skillcheck during flash save which is also very weird. For mend and opening exit gates it would be OK.
Plague - I think she is already fine the way she is. Actually if she does not have iri addon, it's easy to loop her around rock and a pallet. Less easy with gym and a pallet but still quite OK. Making her even slower would feel bad. On the other hand fountains in the edge could give possibility to cleanse when she camps basement. I don't like your changes on this specific killer.
Mastermind - 8% hindered is good. 2% would not be punishing at all (I would never cleanse for 2%). Also 15% slower progress gives way too much time. But I agree about progress during chase. This one aspect makes it guaranteed that you can tunnel someone out which does not feel good. I think mastermind is OK the way he is already. He can be too oppresive at 3gen (I don't know how to solve this) and he can have guaranteed tunnel with uroboros infection (which I addressed). I think the killer is quite all right otherwise (talking from perspective of - I play against him often and haven't played as him yet).
Oni - compensation nerfs would be required. Oni has 1 single weakness that is compensated by one of the strongest abilities (especially if you learn how to flick with him). You want to have him start quickly and leave his strong power be. That's like lowering stalk requirements for meyers (especially both-iri-addon meyers). Suddenly the killer is very OP. Every killer should have a weakness or 2 and Oni's one of the biggest one is slow start.
Overall I don't like part 2. I would scrap whole part 1 if it means scrapping part 2 as well.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207013#Comment_3207013
I did indeed read it. I think corrupt is vastly overrated and a crappy version of it is even more worthless. The farthest two gens? Who cares? Pointless.
You're giving SWF the tools they need to coordinate flawlessly and increasing solo coordination exponentially. Knowing whether or not someone is being chased at all times gives any given survivor leeway to sit on gens constantly. What if there was a perk that showed the killer's aura whenever they were chasing anyone? It'd be incredibly powerful. That's tacitly what this is, all the time. At the same time as giving survivors incredibly powerful information tools you're reversing the most significant buffs killers clawed their way into.
The stuff you're giving killers are token, inconsequential buffs. Seeing a single farthest survivor? Utterly pointless for any killer without the mobility to capitalize on it and they don't need any help.
Easy way to buff trapper? Have him start with traps. I like the speed boost idea.
Easy way to buff billy? Just remove overheat. He doesn't need to be better at what he's already good at.
Wraith? Give him his lunge back. Shadow dance is already very strong and doesn't need any increased synergy.
Your map suggestions are so vague that I can't even comment on them. "Make map better". Uhhhh. Okay? In a subsequent post you elaborate that you don't want windows in a line, but changing their adjacency doesn't really affect how you loop them. You can still get a fast vault on them if they're askew so it doesn't really matter.
Finally, "us vs them". Just because I think your ideas heavily favor survivors doesn't mean that I'm engaging in tribalism. It merely means that your ideas..... heavily favor survivors. That's the shape of the thing. Unlike you who's original post contains combative language toward killers: "...While some of these changes may seem like too much to certain Killer players..." Definitely feels like you're trying to throw shade at one side.
Here we go again. If something is fair, then it's not good for killers.
Corrupt showing up in 50% of my games is weak overrated thing that nobody needs. Right...
Knowing if somebody is in chase. Imagine, that in SWF there could be less then 1s message to comms "Killer is on me". Is that thing so unprobable? How can giving this information to all survivors be anything but balancing things? And how could it especially be buff to SWF coordination (and not just gap close between SWF and solo)? In what universe is that true?
Also baseline BBQ. You have no idea how strong that baseline buff is. The way it is worded by OP is not anyone further than 40m is revealed. It's the survivor that is farthest away. This can potentially give huge macro information. If you see single survivor that is not that far, then you know whole team is here. That is borderline OP for skilled killers. This in itself could make the patch imbalanced toward killers.
@kizuati doesn't even solve all the stuff and I still think the game should address last 2 survivors situation (where they already know that they lost). In this case it's rather easy to be stuck in hostage-taking situation, as it's rather easy that one of 2 things happen - a, both survivors decide to hide and do it well - waiting for the other one to be found and killed first to have a chance at hatch. In this case killer is being kept hostage. b, one is found and the other is being slugged to deny hatch. This can be even worse than 4min slug (like this can go for hour), because all the killer needs is keeping the other player alive and let him wiggle out and catch again for as long as he wants or until the survivor decides to tell where the other one is hiding. Personally speaking, I think hatch should be able to spawn for last 2 players under some condition (e.g. nobody touched gen for 30 seconds) and be open for single survivor. If killer finds it or the other survivor escapes, then short (90s) EGC would start (so that killer has some edge - he originally won the game, so this is only fair). It would prevent end game hiding. But @YOURFRIEND already screams survivor sided patch and this technically is helping survivors a little (even if from MMR's point of view it should not change that much)
From what I see this patch would lessen difference between SWF and solo + buff killers. As a selfish SWF player - I would tell this patch is just pure horror, the OP is mad to even propose this and anyone agreeing to this patch must want to kill the game. But I don't see us vs them the way you do. I want fair games. These things go in that direction.
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@TragicSolitude said:
I had a match today where there were four survivors left, three were on death hook and the Mikaela hadn't been hooked once. I found her, and after a bit of chase I downed her but apparently there was no hook close enough and she got off my shoulder. You know what she did then? Can anyone guess? She ran back to the same goddamn spot to get downed there.
If this stupid Unbreakable change goes live, then that is a freaking lose-lose situation for the killer. Seriously. Today, I was able to just down her a second time and then go off and find and kill the other three before they could get to her. Great job, Mikaela; if she'd just gone on a hook, it would've actually been better for her team. Instead, she bled out for four straight minutes.
If the basekit-unlimited-pick-up change goes through, though, then Mikaela would've been able to pick herself back up, and that would've been a load of crap. No hooks were broken or used, it was just a really bad spot plus really bad hook RNG, and there was nothing I could do about it except slug.
Did you try to drop her from a height? Did she have boil over or any other perk to help her wiggle? Or you were really close to hook (so no aura) or it was in the open (nothing to obstruct hook, so it wasn't red). Perhaps you played nemesis and forgot to use zombies.
Like what you are trying to write happaned to me only on midwitch (or breakdown/sacrifice/boil over fiasco was in play). So I really wonder about details (as I play sabo builds and I am very interested exactly in these situations)
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@kizuati said:
I'm going to style this as a developer update for funsies,so humor me acting as an alternate reality BHVR.
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We're back with an unscheduled developer update,focusing on many upcoming changes coming to Dead By Daylight soon in the 6.9.0 PTB. In this edition,we'll cover many radical balance changes,Killer Reworks and updates to core game mechanics. Buckle up,this is going to be a long one.
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Sole Survivor Experience
Let's be honest. You've probably been left on hook or gotten frustrated at your teammates quite a few times. Playing in solo queue (Queuing up without any friends) can be a difficult challenge to overcome. You cant tell that one Dwight to not go for the rescue,since you have finally gotten that Deliverance or stop Mikaela from booning that one totem you need to break for you challenge.
This has been a complicated issue and a topic for many hot debates in the community and we've thought long and hard on how to bridge the experience of SWF and solo players together - these two groups being so far apart has been a big thorn in the side of any balance changes as they had to be weighed against both solo and grouped players.
We have developed multiple changes that helps bridge the gap between those demographics and we will have all of them available in the next Public Test Build for you to try out and give feedback on.
First: A version of the perk Kindred is now introduced as baseline feature. After a survivor has been hooked for 3 seconds,all survivors see each other's auras at any distance. The Killer Aura reading is not activated,unless the Killer remains near the hook for longer than 20 seconds,after which it activates for 40 seconds. The aura reading range is not affected by the survivor perk Open Handed. Bringing the perk Kindred now speeds up this process,revealing the auras faster and for longer.
Second: During the pre-game Lobby screen,you can hover over other survivors' names to see what loadout they're bringing - perks,offerings,items,addons. We hope this alleviates a lot of frustration with your teammates not knowing you have a specific perk you're trying to utilize. This information will also be accessible whenever you go into your settings menu mid-match.
Third: From now on,you'll be able to see action indicators near the survivors' portraits. They'll be able to tell you whether or not someone is doing totems,gens or running from the Killer. We're also experimenting with adding more specific contextual icons for specific perk interactions and other scenarios.
Fourth: This is not a change you'll see either in the 6.9.0 PTB or on the Live servers,however we'd like to note that we are now looking into re-designing many of our archive challenges to hopefully streamline the survivor experience,with less matches being lost due to rare challenges. In the coming weeks,we're going to disable the Archives system for a certain duration to assess how much it affects the escape rates,especially for sole survivors.
While some of these changes may seem like too much to certain Killer players,please understand that by bringing most of the survivor pool to a relatively close level of power,this allows for much easier balancing of the Killers.
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pallets,tiles & rng:
It's safe to say that the random nature of the Fog is one of the most core parts to the experience of Dead By Daylight. The Trial is ever-changing and The Entity is keeping you on your toes. However sometimes,it can lead to frustrations. We're making a few changes to the way we generate maps,adding new features and changing older ones.
The most exciting change perhaps is the addition of multiple pallet types. Yes,you heard that right,more pallets. Don't fret,dear Killers,there's more to this than just more pallets on your maps.
It's wildly known that not every pallet is created equal. Sometimes you can drop the shack at the start of the match to the sorrow of your teammates or sometimes you'll get a very unsafe one. While we don't seek to remove safe and unsafe pallets,watering it down to something in-between,there is a change coming to make it less frustrating for both sides.
Introducing - Light & Heavy pallets!
The new pallet types work pretty intuitively - lighter pallets stun for less time and take less time to kick,with heavier pallets being the opposite. While we're not going to replace every pallet with either Lights or Heavies,we will use them to spice up the trial.
Overly safe pallets,commonly reffered by the community as "god pallets" such as the one located in the Killer Shack,will now become Light Pallets. They're not very difficult to play and as such provide slightly less value. This change should hopefully make facing a survivor who tries to play it very safe around strong pallets less frustrating.
However the more unsafe pallets have now become more of a threat to the Killer. The added weight results in a longer stun time and requires extra effort to kick - while the loop might not be very safe,it will now come with extra risk for both sides.
We hope the additions to the pallet variety will both alleviate frustration and add satisfaction to making just the right call in an unsafe area.
Encouraging Variety:
The following changes are not definitively slated to make it to the Live version of the game and we're curious to see your feedback.
In hopes to encourage more fun map layouts,we'll be moving some of infamous Z-Wall and similar tiles closer to the middle of the map with your regular tiles getting pushed back a bit further to the corners. In our testing,this resulted in more chaotic,but fun layouts - however we really need your feedback on this one - sometimes our tests can miss problematic areas.
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Maps & Map Offerings:
We've seen a lot of passionate feedback in regards to the Maps in Dead By Daylight and looked into the top 5 biggest complaints we received:
- Overabundance of safe structures (Springwood,Fractured Cowshed & Garden Of Joy, among others)
- Maps being too small or too big. (Mother's Dwelling,Shelter Woods,Dead Dawg Saloon, among others)
- Indoor map layouts making it hard to navigate and find generators or hooks. (Racoon City Police Department, Midwich Elementary School & Lery's Memorial institute, among others)
- Totem spawns being too obvious or too difficult. (Lampkin Lane,Dead Dawg Saloon & Racoon City Police Department, among others.)
- Overly inconsistent safety or lack there of for Survivors in some maps. (Shelter Woods being one of the biggest sources of feedback)
While we dont want the Trials to feel too consistent,with occasional swings to either side's favor,our map design team has made some adjustments.
- Stronger structures like Long-Wall Gyms,Shacks,among others now are signifcantly less likely to "line up" or "chain" together. While these changes do not affect the average survivor,now it will be easier on Killers going up against veteran players who can utilize those structures being close by with frightening efficiency.
- We've slightly reduced the size of the biggest maps currently in the game,like Mother's Dwelling and Shelter woods. The reason why we've only slightly reduced them slightly is because we have some changes coming that will make map size less frustrating and allow us to have bigger Trials.
- Most of the totem spots the community has reported to us have been re-adjusted,with less totems appearing very out of the way for Killers to account for Boon Totems and less totems being in the open to save Hex: Devour Hope from being cleansed too quickly.
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Baseline Killer Updates:
With sole survivor brought up to speed,it only seemed fitting to revisit The Killers' baseline too,as it would required re-adjusments to the new state of things.
First: The basic attack cooldown changes have been reverted. In our effort to cut down on the "hold forward" playstyle,we've gone a tad too far and some unwanted side-effects have emerged. With the basic attack cooldown back up to 3 seconds,we hope to alleviate some frustrating scenarios and strategies that have emerged without bringing the "hold forward" playstyle too much.
Second: A version of the perk Corrupt Intervention is introduced as baseline feature. Upon loading into the trial the two furthest generators away from you will be blocked for 45 seconds. They immediately unblock upon downing a survivor. The perk Corrupt Intervention does not stack with this baseline addition and instead replaces it with the perk you all know and love. This bridges the gap between larger and more average sized maps,while not limiting our creative possibilities.
Third: Upon further examining the feedback and data from matches post the 6.1.0 update,we've decided it's fairly safe to further increase generator kick speeds to 2 seconds flat,regressing 5% of a generator instantly.
Fourth: A version of the perk BBQ and Chili is now a baseline feature as well. Upon hooking a survivor for the first time,gain a bonus score event and see the survivor furthest away from the hook. Subsequent hooks do not provide the score event,but do still provide you with the aura-reading. However if there's only 2 survivors left in the trial,you wont receive the aura-reading. The original perk remains unchanged.
Fifth: With the many changes to the maps,we now feel pretty safe in removing Bloodlust tiers 2 & 3. Bloodlust Tier 1 remains,although it will take 5 seconds longer to kick in. This has remained as sort of band-aid fix to occasional map generation issues,but now with those cases hopefully kept to a minimum,we feel comfortable with removing the higher tiers.
Individual Killer Updates
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The Trapper
The Trapper's bear traps are now substantially skewed in their spawns to the middle of maps,caringly placed in spots that might already catch survivors off-guard,should you reset them.
Additionally,there's now a random amount of your bear traps (from 35% to 45%) that will already be pre-armed,ready to tear apart their victims. This is The Trapper's grounds and survivors are coming into hostile territory.
Finally,once a trap snaps it's jaws,catching an unfortunate survivor,The Trapper will receive the option to press the active ability button,put his weapon away and hastily move with added speed towards the trapped survivor in a manic frenzy. (No,not the Feral Frenzy)
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The Hilllbilly
Max Thompson was at one point one of the strongest killers in the Fog and we seek to bring back some of his glory with a few changes to hopefully make him feel nicer to play.
- Increased Chainsaw Sprint Speed by 5%
- Decreased Chainsaw Charge Time by 3%
- The Overheat mechanic has been reworked. Instead of disabling your chainsaw,the overheat builds during the revving,quickly dissipating during sprints or while not using your chainsaw. Should you overheat,you will be forced into a Chainsaw Sprint for 2 seconds at a slightly reduced initial turn rate.
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The Nurse
The Nurse has been temporarily removed from the game while we work on revoking her medical license and providing a full fledged rework.
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The Wraith
- Increased uncloak speedboost duration.
- Increased action speeds while cloaked.
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And that's it for the first part of our imaginary developer update. Share your feedback in the comments and stay tuned for Part 2 where you will see addon passes,perk updates and more technical changes.
Wow. Overall good balancing update. I like it.
Just one possible small hiccup - third note of killer baseline update. I think it would still kinda work for most killers. But Wesker is sometimes already able to win war of attrition if he only focuses his 3gen + he stacks gen regression perks. I am a bit worried how many killers would be viable to start the game in a way, that they no longer patrol generators, but just camp 3gen from 1st second until the last survivor
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This. 100% agreed in all points
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206514#Comment_3206514
FYI anything below a 75% killrate is still just a 2k on average.
A 50% killrate is not "perfectly balanced", it means the Killer barely manages to scrape by the requirements to get a 2k. The killrate being at 61% doesn't mean Killers suddenly dominate all their games, it just means they can get more hooks in on average than they could prior and still end the game on a 2k. That is not a bad thing.
Not to mention that these stats are taking all ranks with all skill levels into account (they most likely also don't filter out games with ragequits, which spell certain doom for the Survivor team and can therefore artificially inflate these numbers), which makes them pretty worthless overall.
Or even better. Under current MMR computation 61% killrate is almost like (~5% shy of) on avarage killer murdered 2, and 1 escaped via gate and one via hatch (so last player's match didn't count). Making it killer's win on avarage