Gandor
Gandor
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So after you play meta and then play chill you get surprised you lost a few games. That sounds very weird to me. Like if I was going 4man squad with ranger medkits, perfect callouts and this all for quite some time and then swapped to soloQ itemless with meme perks - how much entitlement would I have to have to EXPECT to win the games? Just play a few more games so that your MMR adjusts. Then you are free to meme around and still win some.
My last 3 games (to rephrase it - all of my killer games played yesterday) on killer were 2x GoJ and mother's dwelling on legion, ghostface and artist (all in this order) all 3 of those were 3 or 4 kills. No more then 1 gen poped at 1st chase (but sure my build on all 3 of them contain CI). The ghostface game ended at 5 incomplete gens (I presume the team was "bully squad", but they were bad), artist ended at 3 incomplete gens and legion game was 1 gen to go.
The game had DH's but it's at worst 50/50 to bait it out/swing too early/late for them to register making it absolute no brainer/no problem. I have to agree the perk is used a lot. But it hardly matters.
some players have literally thousands of hours and know this game inside out
So you don't even have 2k hrs and want to win against more skilled players anyway. Do I read it right? Do you think you deserve to win against people with more skill/experience then you? How is that fair? How would such a thing be good design? We can speak about how matchmaking is not good, but do we really want to get to the state where 10hrs killer has real chance to win against survivor lobby with 40k hrs combined? Ideally with meme perks as you wrote in the very beginning? Is that really our goal here? Is that your idea of fun for both sides?
Overall in my experience - killer is still way easier to win on average (but it does not provide "relax time" where all you have to do is hold M1). As a survivor in current state of game - I am happy if we got into endgame anyone escapes from my team via gate (meaning all gens done and gate opened). I don't even count if I personally escaped and really cherish games where everyone escaped. And I have had my fair share of games where killer got 1 hook until 5 gens pop and it still ended up in 4K - so what does it matter if in 1st chase even 4 gens pop if there are no more resources on the map and killer is able to slug/kill everyone right after that. 1st gen by far has MUCH LOWER value then the last one. Anyone that complains about 1st chase and gen pops just outright ignores this fact.
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He specifically said dark theory. Look up it's usage rate. Try it yourself. OP is right. That one is just pure troll. Same as bringing technician/corrective action (when you have more then 10hrs in game) or buckle up or something like that. Those perks are literally a joke and will never ever help you (or rather they should be in no position to ever realistically help you if you are not a brand new player - with exception to dark theory that will help you NEVER).
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@Emeal said:
A Better Solution of Camping and Tunneling is to:
- IF the Killer Camps to Gens, dont unhook.
- Dont pull Survivor off next to killer, then the Killer can tunnel.
- Dont pull Survivor off if the Killer can come back is relative time, then the Killer can tunnel.
- Dont loop the Killer near a Team-mate on the hook.
- Unhook when safe.
- If you must Unhook next to Killer take a hit for them, it makes you a target and not them.
This is such an idealistic thinking so removed from reality...
Like sure there are survivors that make these mistakes. But these things will solve absolutely nothing against decent killer that wants to just win (I am not blaming killer for this - I am blaming developer's design. Each side should try to win, but devs should make sure most optimal strategy is not the most problematic one).
Because any such decent killer will proxy camp and tunnel immediately and there's nothing you can do about that one. There will be no safe unhook. There's no point in taking hits. Even downs will result in nothing, because such down would be trade where tunneling one guy out is more optimal. And devs should make sure that this is not the case. Instead we got DS nerf so NO KILLER EVER respects it (because why would he? It usually prolongs the chase by 6s anyway if said survivor even brought the perk at all).
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@Crowman said:
Reverting DS wouldn't stop tunneling from being the best strategy. If you really want to reduce tunneling, give killers a reward for spreading hooks. Spreading hooks does not help control gens like removing a survivor from the game does.
Not true. 1 min not doing anything or eating DS is never a good option. So best strategy was to "tunnel" 2 guys instead of 1 (and swap between them). That's immediately more fair, because guy that is on a hook can try to hide while the other one is being chased. DS in practice was "guaranteed" to create longer chase then a minute - making it very suboptimal strategy. There was nothing else so impactful for high MMR (tunnel-wise) as DS nerf. Sure you can argue BBQ nerf did that too, but not in "sweat MMR"...
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@Seraphor said:
I would personally get rid of all the different item tiers, and just have base items.
Brown Medkit, Brown Toolbox, Brown Flashlight, etc. Then you put all of the modifiers onto the add ons.
This would reflect the killers position a lot better, after all the killer gets two add ons, and cannot change their base power.
The add ons could still be buffed to compensate for this, but crucially the ability to triple-stack certain attributes would be removed, such as using a faster-healing Med kit with two add ons that increase healing speed. Instead, you get a base medkit, and can only increase the speed via equipping two add ons, which leaves you short of multiple charges.
This would make for a system that's much easier to balance, as you have fewer variable combinations to account for.
If you think about it, this is not the case.
You can think of it like you have exactly 1 survivor+skins and 1 killer+"mandatory skin set" depending which "base item" you pick. The only difference is, that killer has 31 "items" while survivors ~5 (depending how you count it) and killer's base items just don't have rarities (but then we have to realize that killer abilities are generally way stronger then any item in the game).
@kill4escape4win said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3357411#Comment_3357411
I personally don't have issues, it is simply a fact med-kit are too powerful and it simply downgrade self-healing while not affecting altruistic actions with them
The game is designed around doing gens while being healthy for most of the time (because otherwise your chases are usually way too short - plague is powerless without cleansing = something good survivors don't do, but she still has very high win rate regardless - her power is just that you can't heal & are injured most of the game and that's enough for her to be very strong killer). There's already a huge nerf to self care, there are lot of threads to nerf it's substitute (CoH) and now you want to nuke medkits too.
Like sure. You can. But I expect massive buffs to survivor as compensation.
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When I read this thread it looks like killers struggle very much. It's like killrate was 39% and needed some real boosts, because killing any survivor is such an impossible task.
Sure. Slow down healing speed. But if that's the case, make chasing for survivors better. Let's get to equal 50% for both sides. So remove 5% speed from every killer's movement speed (abilities included, consider their current speeds 100% right now and remove 5% from that) so that chasing while injured is viable. Otherwise this is just a recipe for 80%+ killrate
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@ThiccClaud said:
Inner healing is good against the following:
-A nurse's calling
-Sloppy buchter
-Caulrophrobia
-any ######### hex perk
-any ######### aura perk
-you can use it mid chase
How can you use it mid-chase? Which killer will take longer then 8s (in fact more like 10s, because getting into locker, heal and get out of it) to get to you and open that locker? Even if deception/Q&Q is in play, the time is so long, that it's virtually impossible to use mid-chase.
It also adds extra risks of somebody else taking totem perk (like multiple inner healings, but there are more cases), iron maiden and actually any tracking ability (like killer instinct, aura perks just before you get into locker, skull merchant's ability, etc). The perk is good (not even very good as it's slow) at it's niche at best (find totem, walk to it, cleanse it, do not get interrupted, find a locker, walk to it and then you can get "quick heal". But as you can see, it's very slow if you take into account whole time-chain and not just "you are magically already standing in safe locker so you heal in 8s"). It's definitely bad otherwise.
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@DwightDwigt said:
It's a no-brainer decision that Killers should have the basekit option to snuff or cleanse.
This change would force the Killer to make decisions on the fly (instead of pre-trial)...which would give the Killer more agency...which would create more compelling gameplay for the Killer.
Do you snuff to allow for Plaything, NOED, etc? Or, do you cleanse immediately based on a hard-to-reach location, etc?
As it stands currently, the Killer makes 1 decision, pre-trial, for how all boons will be addressed.
With the basekit capability, Killers would have to make multiple decisions, during the trial, to address boons.
Shattered Hope could be removed completely or reworked into something like a Killer version of Counterforce.
I see exponential or shadow step once every 100 games. Maybe even less. Do this blanket nerf and I am pretty sure the only case of boon usage will be ONLY to meme. Never again. Even CoH is in fact time inefficient if killer snuffs the totems and knows what he's doing. (Don't go math on me, but instead measure it in your games - in practical terms it takes anything between 21s to ages to heal with CoH - making even current, nerfed, god awful self care on average about as quick as CoH if you consider only self-heal time).
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@SkeletalElite said:
So, everyone has been in a situation as killer where the survivors are just hiding instead of trying to repair gens. Alternatively, a situation where a killer refuses to chase or down survivors unless they let him and instead just regresses a 3 gen endlessly.
What if to make this not possible. After an amount of time passes without any generators being repaired, (10 minutes?) A new mechanic will trigger.
2 things become available. An altar appears in the basement, the killer can interact with this to reveal the location of all survivors and reveal their auras for 30 seconds + killer instinct.
Additionally, the repaired generator which is the furthest away from all the other generators will become able to be repaired a second time.
When this mechanic triggers, all players in the match will hear a gong noise and receive a notification and brief aura reveal of the generator, which has been activated and can be repaired a second time. The killer will also see the aura of the altar in case they don't know where the basement is.
I like this. Make the altar thing be quick though. Maybe 1s animation or less
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@Sillymare said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349594#Comment_3349594
And now you're cherry picking scenarios where the perk would be ineffective instead of considering that baiting the killer off the hook or to swing giving you plenty of time to unhook and run is what any decent survivor would do and those 10 perks in combination with each other guarantee this 90% of the time.
So, any more excuses to flex on the killer and teabag them at the exit gate?
Why would ANY competent killer move an inch away from hook? All he needs is to wait for unhook and pressing M1 once it happens. Done. No thinking required. No skill required. Just guaranteed kill. No possibility to do anything about it by anyone - with exception to perks - that can change the situation for both sides.
If it's such a problem you might not hook to any hook you want, bring IG+Agi. Well. That's 2 perks just for this situation? Then why are you suggesting survivors take whole build just to counter this situation?
Killer still has chance. Killer can always grab. With STBFL you can always down at least one (or have chance to). And there needs to be interaction between both groups and both sides can screw up and loose the game then and there. Much better then mindless "press M1 after unhook and forget there are any other buttons in game".
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@Chiky said:
I hate playing survivor because the game is too easy and way too simple.
Some killer's powers are extremely easy to overcome/ignore, so playing agains those killers is just boring.
Generators getting repaired in 30 seconds with 1 or 2 skill checks is too easy and not fun.
With perks like the healing boon you get a guaranteed win unless the killer focuses on shutting it off, which is just more time for us to do gens while the boon can be easily turned on...
Hex Perks are absurdly easy to find and destroy. Sure, they give a notification to the killer, but what for if they now have 1 perk less?
Flashlights blinding the killer in 1 second while lasting for an eternity is way too easy...
The only way to lose as survivor is if your teammates keep repairing the gens instead of unhooking you, or (and most likely) the killer camps and tunnels you because that way they get an easy kill...
I want a challenge. I want to be scared while playing. I want to do more stuff, not just like 8 skill checks and running around and then winning... It's so boring...
I have several ideas that could be fun to test, but I know survivor mains just want an easy game and they are always the first to complain... :/
Sure. Game is super easy for survivors. That's why currently shortest kill streak out of all the things possible is on soloQ survivor (and PTB killer). Even knight has longer kill streak now then soloQ. But sure survivor is super easy...
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@Pumpkinbros said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349578#Comment_3349578
That perk fact is just completely untrue and i think you just need to try more perks
Sure I was embelishing. But check the graph yourself. Nightlight isn't 100% accurate, but the general trend should be pretty precise - https://nightlight.gg/perks
Ok so I made the effort and created small script. For killers it takes 38 out of 105 perks combined to get to usage rate of most used perk. For survivors it's even way worse - 58 perks out of 118. That doesn't sound like balanced design.
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@Sparxlost said:
nah i dont think so
I know it's astronomically bad.
DS has quite a low usage rate as it is compared to % of killers that actually tunnel. DS's sole purpose is to stop said tunnel and it can't do it's job properly. Yet you want it nerfed even more.
That's like saying gens can go too quickly with genrush builds, so let's remove great skillcheck condition from hyperfocus so that good skillcheck is all you need
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@Pumpkinbros said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349247#Comment_3349247
you may be a programmer, but, I don't think you're a professional, it's a lot different on that level and things are more streamlined than you think they are, you can not answer this problem because you actually don't have the source code to dbd. trying to argue how large a feature is to make is pointless when you're not the one doing it, and you keep bringing up this focus thing after I bring up the pipeline, not every employee is focusing on the same feature all at once man, people are reworking maps separately from programmers and you know that, and I know you know that.
and a perk overhaul, really? gonna be honest, it's a bit too soon, there isn't a very defined meta right now, I try new builds every single game, but no we do not need a perk overhaul yet, dead perks get buffed through updates anyways, any means necessary a previous dead perk just got a really nice buff, wasn't really dead, but also felt a bit useless.
object culling for ONLY moris, meaning you don't have to change any aspect of the game except for moris, sounds like a very minor improvement/feature, I don't really understand why you think object culling is some holy grail of 3D technology, I just wanna see the animation man....
If there were that many ppl really working on stuff, then problematic things would be solved much sooner.
Also if 2/3 of perks combined together has less usage then 1st most used perk, then it's clear perk strength balance is just not there.
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@Bwsted said:
I count 6.
4 doesn't count. That helps survivors
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@Pumpkinbros said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348631#Comment_3348631
I mean... Dbd definitely works as I play it, and yeah it's definitely in a playable state, adding a simple feature isn't gonna overthrow the work load of the entire company lmao chill out
How can you judge that it's simple feature? I just argued it's a big feature that has barely visible outcome (compared to the work).
Do I think the idea would be nice? Sure I do. Do I think it's worth it compared to remaking every single broken map and make complete perk overhaul for all the dead perks? Well... I would much rather forget about moris if I could have a choise.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348718#Comment_3348718
True.
Although, tbf, defining floor vs obstacles should not be a new task and if they haven't done it they need to.
Sure. It would help for future bugs too. Also this animation would be easy to do. If they ever decide to go this way, it would be good idea to make morries better too :)
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348091#Comment_3348091
They already distinguish between ground and obstacles; you'll notice when jumping down from 2-floor maps you can't land on TOP of things. And obviously, things like the Lery's central room don't have infinitely high hitboxes.
your example is precisely why I don't think that's the issue. So many times you can land on cars, ledges, pallets, carts, etc until they fix said bug. that I am pretty sure they fix them case-by-case by invisible "walls".
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Sure. Let's add +50% base movement speed to killers while we are at it. And make all the maps 100m^2. Sure that will be healthy. TERRIBLE IDEAS.
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@Pumpkinbros said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348182#Comment_3348182
yes, 1 code base that can be worked on simultaneously by all the programmers, there is a dedicated team to fixing bugs as with all game pipelines, but there is also people working on new chapters and features, everyone's doing something different, it's still redundant to say, cause obviously if dbd wants a new feature they'll have people to do it, yknow when a new chapter comes out and It actually has a list of bug fixes every time, and yknow, doesn't as if they all just focused on the chapter and nothing else??
industries have pipelines and both features and bug fixes are worked on simultaneously, idk why you want that not to be true. dbds going to release new content and features regardless of how much you want them to focus on bugs, like stop saying that it's kinda obnoxious, "focus on bugs" yeah. they are. plus I'm obviously aware of the type of culling you're talking about, it's built right into dbds current engine unreal engine 4, so you don't even have to code that, but it's also entirely possible to code a dynamic culling system, that works specific to moris, there are several tricks you can use such as forcing the characters in the mori to even always render on top, that's not ideal, but I'm just saying this issue is solvable and you debating whether its possible or not is their job not yours
if you would like a feature like that, just say "yeah i want a feature like that!" and then you don't actually have to code it because you don't work at BHVR, so it's their choice to listen to if you want that feature, and it's their job to decide whether it's possible,
do you want that feature?
I am a programmer by profession. I know how things work. And I do consider how much work things like these are. For this specific reason I would WANT to prioritize. If I know by my trade that something would be complicated to do and the only advantage is that I get "nicer 5s animation" - and for this reason I will not get unstuck as twins (problem that should be about the same difficulty), then sorry, but I DO NOT WANT ANY MORI CHANGE. If bhvr had unlimited programmer's capacity (which is VERY OBVIOUSLY NOT TRUE), then I would ask for something like this. But right now... Really? 5s animation is that important? I would rather have working things before animation happens then this.
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It has about same counterplay for killer as midwitch for survivors.
Also I don't have any problems with the map as killer (but I mostly play wesker or spirit)
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@wonkers said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341991#Comment_3341991
Nope, make it so useless that no survivor would ever use it, how is it fair if ruin gets sent to hell, but dead hard is meta.
How is it fair that DS was sent to hell, but pain res is meta?
Don't cherry pick.
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@Pumpkinbros said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348091#Comment_3348091
The grass is already culled out dbd, move your camera down to the ground and you will see grass blades made up of tiny little pixels until it goes full transparent grass isn't the problem it's objects like shack and rocks
What you talked about is something different. This kind of culling is based on distance from camera only. This is something you can learn to do in 1st hour you open some opengl tutorial. Very simple thing. Much different from distinction of the ground.
However considering how survivors camera works (and the fact you can't ever look below the ground), there already is some marking - this one is not usable, because it considers hard obstacle also walls you want removed. But maybe it could be extended. Maybe. It's hard to guess what they have inside.
@Pumpkinbros said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348091#Comment_3348091
i'm also hoping you know that dbd has about 1000 people working on it at a time... so I really hate when people say "they should just focus on bugs" when there's obviously a department for bugs, and a department for new features, they're not all simultaneously focusing on a single thing at a time it's a $96 million dollar company come on
But they don't have 1000 programmers. They can't have. Once there are too many, adding another one will slow you down further (and no there's no such thing as code for bugs and code for new features. They are 1 codebase). Not all work can be split and a lot of things need to be done by single person. And in the end, you need to ask what's the benefit. Having one slightly better animation? Or say fixing twins glitch where their players couldn't move after swapping (or if u are playing survivor and have better memory - fixing wesker/locker interaction where survivor's camera got forever stuck in locker even after wesker carried you away).
A working compromise would be to recycle existing code they have - for each mori players are teleported to special location (seen this way only for killer and morried person) and the animation happens there. For all the other survivors - keep current mori. This should be much easier to do and you would get big part of what you are asking for.
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@kaiojiiyorii said:
With the recent buffs to survivors and gen speed I feel end game collapse is becoming the main time for killer to push, however maybe some changes could be good.
- exit gates depower slowly when not being charged, stops 99 gates and runs a bigger risk
- survivors in the exit gate zone are exposed and blind, and cannot crouch or use flash lights, this may stop some toxic t bagging and behaviours, there close enough to the exit to leave for it not to be a issue unless your ducking around, if your flashlight saving in the exit zone it’s litterly a 1/100 thing that happens
- killer gets all there totems are seeable by survivors and all survivor totems stop, this enforces risk and counter balances end game perks like noed even harder or other totems, survivors can head straight for them, but killer hasn’t got to worry about meta Totems for last section of the game like COH. Only reason I say nerf survivors harder on this is all game they get intimate boons unless they die
just some thoughts in my head at the moment
Horrible idea.
1, egc was created to break stalemate where both sides would just not commit to action (waiting at loop and such) devs decided to break it by pushing on survivors. You want to make this "brake stalemate" to suddenly work like ez bloodwarden win for killer. No thank you. This does not look cool.
2, I can't count number of times I got saved/healteched/downed at exit gate just trying to get away without ever stopping for any kind of BM. You want this taken away too. Not cool again. And in my games the ratio between bm and legit save might be 100:1, but that 1 is actual BM and 100 are legitimate saves (yes I play mostly SWF, because solo is still too bad).
3, i don't understand you here. If you say hexes are cleansed at endgame, then you are right. That's their design. Help a lot early, but less so late game. Also hexes are not shining blue light, don't make super loud and distinct noise and work accross whole map + endgame is generally killer sided anyway (as resources are already used up).
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Agreed. I heard this idea originally from scott
https://youtu.be/awyEYa_iXDk?t=781And I have to agree
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
I feel like this is a perk that only a few Killers can make use out of since the duration of the Exposed is incredibly short and you can often just run in away from the Killer's Terror Radius while they are hooking the Survivor to make the distance needed to get away.
The only thing that was holding Starstruck back from being buffed was Nurse, but Nurse got nerfed and her Blink Attacks are treated as Special Attacks and not Basic Attacks. In fact, she was nerfed to remove this strong synergy with Starstruck to begin with, so why not buff this perk so it can be used by M1 Killers? It was gutted so it was no longer the best tool for the strongest Killers, so why not give weaker Killers more leverage?
I know some people would say "but would it make it too strong?" but Starstruck is entirely avoidable by leaving the Terror Radius before a pick up and staying split up (which most Survivors already do). And through an entire 2 years or so of playing DBD, Ive never been downed by Starstruck on a basic M1 Killer, and I never really see it as a threatening perk due to the amount of restrictions and factors that are required for the perk to actually work.
And when I speak on this subject, Im speaking entirely from my personal experience, so while I cant say others will have the same experience I have had with this perk to begin with, I can at least provide my insight and thought process, which I have, but if anyone else would like to contribute to this subject and give their own opinions and experiences, they are welcome to (besides it is a public forum anyways).
As a personal experience - I saw value of this perk on M1 killers.
But I agree the perk is somewhat weak on regular M1 killers. I would be ok with 40 or maybe even 45s. However spirit still exists (wesker could be little oppresive with it, but I don't think it would be uncounterable).
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
If a mori was an actual cutscene then sure, or maybe at the end of gameplay like they tried with the finisher Mori thing. But there's a lot that can go wrong in a multiplayer scenario if you start culling objects with collision.
You're far more likely to have either the killer or another survivor get stuck on the terrain as it comes back into play.
Which doesn't even touch on scenarios where, say, a survivor could deliberately stand somewhere during the mori animation and when the Mori completes, they're fully contained inside a rock or out of the map.
What do you do if, for example, the map boundary wall would block the mori view? Do you delete the wall for the animation but in doing so allow players outside the playable area?
This is probably not issue. There's usually difference between visual of object (that you can delete) and actual interaction (but it is possible I am wrong depending on their implementation). Also you can remove parts of map strictly for those players, that are locked in animation (namely killer and morried person, again depending on existing code).
@Pumpkinbros said:
What is Object Culling?
for those who do not know, object culling is a process in video game maps where things not necessary to the immediate view are culled out and deleted to extend performance, Dead by Daylight already does this when you look at things like grass
Object Culling For Moris
I do not enjoy picking people up and finding a perfect spot to mori them I'd like to plop them down where ever and have a bubble created around me that culls everything that the mori might clip through, it just speeds up the process and makes the game look better. I don't see any drawbacks to this feature other than time to implement it, not sure how easy it is to make things cull during a mori, but I really would like to see it happen! this probably won't be necessary if the new mori mechanic is released but if it's decided that, that won't be a thing, I think it's essential to improve the experience
But this still might be hard to do. You would need to mark every object as what is "ground" and can't be removed (stairs, hills, possibly grass, ...) Or anything else that could possibly make you levitate and distinguish it from things like cars, walls, etc that could be removed. This could be very time consuming, maybe even hard (depending on existing code) and prone for bugs.
I would mutch rather have devs focus on fixing actual bugs in a game.
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@Technature said:
It's funny that you accuse me of being the prick first.
I play one game a day per side because it gets ridiculous how stupid this is.
Today I played Doctor on Garden of Joy. Everyone escaped. The one person in their exit gate left shortly after I chased them to it. The three in the other was waiting for me to check on them for the ass dance.
Yesterday I played Nemesis on Cow Shed. I got two kills. The other two were waiting in the exit gate. Take a guess why.
The day before I played Legion on the Chapel. 4k.
The day before I played Wesker on Cornfield. I got one kill because of poor play at the EGC. The three left wasted as much of my time as possible with their ass dance, and in the chat told me to kill myself.
Please tell me what I could have possibly done to justify being told "You know what would make a good necklace? A nice, tight rope."
I am absolutely not excusing BM. If somebody behaves bad, it speaks about them. And some people don't need any reason to be mean.
What strikes me as weird though is, that you said survivors tbag you every single game. This means you are either very unlucky for particularly horrific people, or it means that you are doing something that encourages BM towards you.
I don't believe in consistent bad luck. So my explenations are a, you are toxic at them too b, you play in a very unfun way which probably triggers people way more (perhaps you like insidious basement bubba?) c, you play on server where this is culturally more acceptable d, you overstate how often it happens e, something else I did not realize.
Take anything you want from it. Basically my point was, that even though I do experience the same, it is by huge margin not as bad as it is for you. So maybe you yourself can do something to reduce it (reduce does not mean fully wipe out) if it bothers you.
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@SkeletalElite said:
They should just randomize your scourge hooks every time you get a hook
This ensures you won't get completly or near useless scourge hooks and also makes camping survivors on scourge less effective since you wont get pain res on trades every time.
scourge swapping sounds like bad idea. It diminishes tactical point - both survivors and killers planning around scourge hooks. I don't like this idea one bit (at least as a default behavior). Any other suggestion in this thread sounds more reasonable to me
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@Technature said:
It's not even the tea bagging alone, it's the fact that Survivors will do it for the entirety of the EGC every. Single. Time.
There has not been a single game for months where at least one survivor got into a gate when I wasn't letting them go because of an early DC that my time wasn't wasted for at least 30 seconds.
Literal hours has been spent waiting for the next game because the term "Graceful Winner" doesn't mean a ######### thing.
Stop defending behavior where people are being pricks.
If it happens every single time, then maybe think about stopping nodding at survivors? Or stop hitting them on hook? I do play killers and while sure it happens to me too, it's VERY FAR from happening to me EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. I would estimate it to about 5-10% of games. So maybe think why those survivors have such an inexcusable need to tbag specifically you and not have that need for other killers.
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@Witchubtet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344178#Comment_3344178
So You’re upset that the kill rate went from 1.94 (around 49%) to 2.34 (around 61%)? That’s just a healthy amount. That means on average two survivors get out of the gates every match. With at least 8.5% of the time only one gets away.
but that’s just following the math to logical conclusion. In practicality these numbers probably don’t fully reflect most games due to outlying factors like DCs or Hook Suicide.
Also the meta shake up scared people away from using the old meta but after it was clear that the nerds weren’t as bad as people thought they went back. Its pick rate is still super high. I think I saw a video from a week or two ago where they showed the stats from like 188 games? DH was in 40 odd-ish percent of them, that’s 75 matches. DS was only in like 15% of them. So like 28-30 matches in total? which is low but like another person pointed out to me “It’s no longer a run to the corner for a free escape perk”.
In a game where mmr exists 61% sustained "winrate" (remember killer is playing 4 matches at once) it's hell of a unhealthy thing. It means 200hrs killer will probably at least tie 5k hrs lobby. Also the killrate was way above 61% until things settled. Also DC's don't count into stats (as devs already said) and suicides are more then covered by merci escapes and farming killers.
So yes. It is problem. And you first saying "it didn't help" while it changed killrate by 12% speaks very loudly about your opinions.
Also if DS nerf wasn't so bad... Why did killers start to tunnel that much more then before patch 6.1? Why no killer ever respects DS? And why would survivor get downed in a safe spot and not actually use the resources (because dying in deadzone means DS is just bleed-resetting perk for DH)?
Meaning perk that is designed to combat one of the most utilized and most optimal strats most of killers do... This perk is by your numbers used in about 4% of survivors. Makes you wonder if the perk is not actually bad at it's sole job.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343773#Comment_3343773
In their new year anniversary update, one of the dev stated that they do not want survivors to be perfectly tracked by the killer. This is why every killer has really loud music in chase to mask the survivor's movement along with audio occlusion.
Perhaps they're going back on spirit changes. that is really nice. I miss going against spirit. her weakened version is not too interesting to place against from survivor point of view. depending how much survivor complains about will decide if that change stays in the game or not.
U r not serious right? Spirit with her best addons in good hands (her base is super strong but OK) is IMO strongest killer in game (now after nurse nerf and after 6.1 changes). Objectively she is definitely not worse then top 3. And this was before the bug - and there are plenty of spirits in game just highlighting how strong she is.
I don't even remember last time I survived going against mdr amulet spirit (yet again, her basekit is very strong, but still playable). With this bug, I don't think there's much to do even against her weaker builds
@Seraphor said:
Definitely not 'gamebreaking', and frankly, almost sounds like it should be a feature.
Every killer mind games by breaking line of sight, this just allows Spirit to do exactly the same thing while in phase, where she's already blind to survivors anyway.
Make her 15% slower + nerf her speed/duration addons and we can speak about mind games. Right now there are none.
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@HardhatKrugerer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344043#Comment_3344043
So failing to mind game from your side is killer´s fault and can be considered as BM? :D How is that? Since when is t-bagging something tactical? Its giving you more bloodpoints? Its causing faster gen progress, when killer see you while t-bagging? If you force killer to pick survivor what has been taken down, then flashlight saves will be hell. Because survivors will know exactly that killer can´t take them or go after them so they have free flashlight. Really "good idea".
OTOH It allows me to dodge huntress/trickster. Force oni to run over me, causes blight/billy to not hit me, helps me mindgame spirit w her sounds. If I thought about it a little more I can find more examples.
Sometimes it needs to be done in quick successions (especially huntress).
Meaning there are plenty of reasons when you tbag without any bm or intend to communicate anything
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@Witchubtet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344066#Comment_3344066
Like by .3 seconds on some of them? Or at least that was what I remember reading. The buffs didn’t fully help the way the Devs made it sound. Because “reducing the animation time by 10%” on a 3 second animation is just… 2.7 seconds.
Kinda like how alot of the “Current progression” kick perks suck because 10% of a 20% done gen is 2%. Bring it down to 18% than can be fixed in… like 3 to 4 seconds on the gen? So almost the same time it took to kick you can fix. Now at higher progress it’s has harder it hits but if 7, 8, 9% of a Gen is considered “harsh” then they really need to rethink what that word means.
Yes it did absolutely nothing. It's only a miracle that immediately after the buff killers had 3,5 out of 4 kills on average and once the dust settled their killrate went from 49% to 61%. Absolutely invisible insignificant buffs that did nothing.
Especially nerfed DS that (obviously) raised the amount of tunneling thru the roof (so much that it's kind of rare to see killer NOT tunnel any more) - because devs said they will help with camp&tunnel and nerfing DS is obviously way to go (and don't even start me on best-designed perk OTR that works as antitunnel perk only if killer does not really tunnel - because otherwise you get hit within first 2s out of hook).
But this is just a cherry-on-top. There are multitudes of changes out of which killers always find just one so they can downplay the effects and outright ignore kill rate change.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344056#Comment_3344056
Eh, killers are meant to use their time to catch survivors, so... I doubt getting that time back is in any way healthy at all.
Do note I never said anything about genrush or something like that, May I ask you to do not hijack post of someone else to say your own unrelated opinion.
I've just stated game doesn't really have reliable baseline around objective related things.
1, how is genrush perks not related to Why not just remove gen related perks altogether ? It's literally in your title.
2, killers should be able to refund time spent carrying survivors. They should get chance to win game if they are actually doing good (instead of loosing even though they get quick downs). On the other hand they should not win the game, because they just decided to camp their 3gen getting the game handed to them. This is healthy balance. Removing all gen perks (instead of adjusting very few problematic ones) would be detrimental to this goal.
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Current and old versions are both bad. I don't really like your version too. I think all they had to do is have it work like it works but having diminishing returns (like e.g. 6% for 1st, 10,5% for 2, 13,5% for 3, 15% for all 4) - this way the perk would be useful on all killers, but not overwhelming on plague/legion
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@birkineer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341857#Comment_3341857
No need to jump insults, you were making some good points but you just immediately took away your validity.
Iron will is trash now, object was broken af in swfs and bad in soloq (better to have the be the opposite),sprint burst balanced landing self care (og) flashlights (specifically instablinds) instaheals keys MOM and DS all NEEDED nerfs.
Instaheals are unfair because... instant healing? Drop a pallet, healed up woohoo! Now the killer has to spent time hitting you, which isnt instant.
SB was broken as hell back when exhaustion wasnt a thing, especially when combined with balanced landing. Are you actually trying to suggest that just because the overpoweredness of survivor was removed that killers being upset about balance is invalid? Kinda stupid on your end.
The thing with the devs is, they dont account that survivors outweigh killers 4-1, most of the time more than that. Logically they should listen to killer voices 4x as much then, so it equals out. However, they dont and instead focus on the vocal majority which often includes people like you who probably think infinites were fair.
Please check the name of this thread. Maybe you will actually understand the response on which you are reacting. OP literally asked in title: Why are Killers punished with Nerfs while survivors still haven’t?
To which the answer was - survivors were "punished" way more then killers (but I will agree with you, that a lot of those nerfs were deserved - but it does not change the fact, that eruption + other kick gen perks combo was just as broken as old 100% BNP - so in fact threads like this one are part of the problem).
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@fulltonon said:
Like game is extremely random when it comes to generator speed despite it being most important balance factor of all, why not just remove gen speed or gen slowdown or anything, and balance anything else around that.
Not to mention that most of those things are "win more when you win" style of perks, which makes game more and more one sided.
We've got "meta shakeup" and we didn't really got much of gamebreaking problems despite that being so big, so we should be able to handle big changes every now and then.
most of those things are "win more when you win" style of perks
I have to disagree here. A lot of perks that apply regression for a down are basically just giving you back time you had to spend on actually hooking someone. A lot of these perks are healthy
A lot of perks are actually healthy for both sides. Namely gen stalling perks are generally healthy (corrupt, deadlock with small exception to camping bubba - which is more bubba problem, dms with small exception to artist but it's not even that unhealthy, thana even if it's a bit too weak now). The only problem is if killers are able to stack all regressions and their regression speeds is bigger then survivor's progression (so OC+CoB+current Eruption+any 4th regression perk like pain res) - this is being tackled by scheduled strong nerf to eruption.
There is also a problem in 4man team goes full genrush build, but frankly this is very rare sight (making it less of a problem). There are very few 4mans with 4 commodius toolboxes + 4x brand new parts + 2x proof + 2x streetwise + 4x hyperfocus + 4x stakeout (this is true genrush build).
There will be killers that will complain about "genrush" when none of these items/addons/perks are used, but that is usually problem of tunneling killer that is not able to catch a survivor and so is wondering how did those 3 people that he didn't see finish all the gens in 5 minutes (duh - you never put any pressure on them so what else were they supposed to do? Also considering basement bubba exists 5 minutes is still too long if killer decides to camp from 1st hook to death every time). This pseudo "genrush" is not a problem for the game
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@Dark_Alex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343326#Comment_3343326
What's stopping you? This refers to the delay between squatting and standing up. You could sit down quickly or stand up abruptly. (Otherwise, it would start to interfere with the game.) However, in order to return to the starting position, you will need a conditional 1 second of time. Just like in reality.
@Phantom_ said:
Just thought of something, if BHVR could make their crouching stances more stealthy and add a second delay to it, it would fix this. Like say, if they're hiding behind a rock, why not have them crouch with one knee bent and hold onto the rock in front of them with their hands or whatever object it is in front of them?
@fulltonon said:
I like how people defend extremely kid alike act like this by telling others to grow up tbh, yeah maybe but there is literally no situation where this has done with non-malicious intention.
It's not the act itself which makes it bad, it's the intention behind it.
By the same argument force killer to pick up survivor if he walks on and behind the survivor. That's also a gesture of disrespect that killers are doing. Let's intentionally forget that said killer could be faking pickup to make a survivor reveal himself (survivor trying to dodge some ability). It's BM most of the time so punish the other side for something that angers me because it's used for showing disrespect and so it angers me even if it literally does nothing really malicious.
Also do that for anything else in a future that will take it's place - resulting in need to freeze both parties and not allowing them to play the game - because there will always be some kind of move to show disrespect (next up is freeze camera movement, because head nods on both sides are super toxic).
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@HardhatKrugerer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342662#Comment_3342662
"original version of DS the very first one. That thing was actually broken"
- Oh you think? I thought there is nothing for you, on survivor side, what is broken. You speak always like evrything about survivors is ballanced. Why do you think it was broken?
"Boil over"
- As was mentioned above still better than original form. I´m using it a lot and no matter what it always give killer difficult times. But I guess on your level, read low MMR, its something unacceptable.
"Infinite window vaulting got removed."
- After years. Or you forgot? Just because they removed it they deserve medal? On Dead Dawg Saloon is infinite around main building. You can do it for such a loong time when killer will be finally able to reach you. At this map I´m able to loop killer around main building for 9 minutes straight. Only highest level of Bloodlust give him enough speed to broke that looping. But then its over. Only high mobility killers have chance to get you there. And just because they removed it that justify that huge amount of time to "undone" these things?
"Infinite window vaulting got removed"
- Such a heroic deed. How long it took them to rewmove it? Just because they removed it that justify that huge amount of time to "undone" these things?
"Number of loops and pallets got removed"
- Pick Windows of Oportunity and check maps like Lery´s Memorial and another maps. Then go back and tell that once again. :D
"Actual pallet interaction got nerfed very badly once smash hit got introduced."
- Thats only skill issue, honey.
"Reverse stuns got removed (or at least reduced to high degree)"
- Removed or reduced? Choose between them, please. :D
"Keys got butchered to oblivion making it most useless item in game."
- If you don´t know how to use them, then sure. Its pointless to use it on levels where people are living in a world where Knight is uncounterable. :D
"BNP got nerfed really heavily."
- You mean they finally are not utterly broken? And heavily you mean easy skillchecks what I can do even if I would be drunked? Yes. Such a huge nerf. Thats Why I have them against me as a killer most of the time. :D They are easy to use even for people with horribly slow reflexes. Its not difficult at all to get maximum from BnP. Anytime I can do them easily no matter what. It should be much much faster and skillchecks much more smaller. Now its too easy to land skill check. But its a NEEEERF, right? :D :D It displays your lack of knowladge about the game when you don´t know what you can do and how to maximize potential of all addons and items for survivors.
"Instaheals are no longer insta."
- Wow. Another heroic deed where I can kneel before BHVR and thanks them for removed instahealing what shouldn´t be even thing. :D But yes.... Again. How long it took them to undone it?
"But still people will complain, that devs are survivor sided."
- Adding visible terror radius for HARD HEARING survivors. For HARD HEARING KILLERS .... oh wait.
So to sum up your response - yes you are right. They did all that. But it took them too long and they actually did it so no devs are survivor sided.... like... ????????
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342665#Comment_3342665
Given the planned addition of visual cues for terror radius as an accessibility option (and it's much easier for most people to follow visual cues and detect minor changes, so I expect lots of people are going to run it for the advantage), it's not like it won't cut the other way, either.
The game should be playable for as many people as possible without outright hampering them because of artificial constraints.
Sure by the same logic remove all the bloods and killers should not try to kill but it should be a game of tag. So that 7yo can play it too...
Once you remove important parts of the game, the game stops being interesting. This is actually what you are asking for in my eyes
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@Maelstrom808 said:
10% progress as before and 25sec aura on the survivor is what they should have done if they were going to go this route. Gives enough time to get the downed survivor to a hook and get in the vicinity of the gen and see where the survivor hides or the direction they bolt when they hear the terror radius. Gen regression amount is garbage now like Pop, and the aura duration is pretty much done by the time you hook the downed survivor. You already know which gen they were on due to the scream and knowing what gen you kicked, so the aura is pretty worthless at 10 sec.
it's not useless. This one will negate sabotage games. Also if you decide to slug, you have your target ready. It's good info. It's just way less useful on most killers (but huntress, nurse, blight and maybe even spirit will still use it). There are better perks now. But it does not mean the perk is bad (same can be said about let's say dragon's grip).
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@HardhatKrugerer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330588#Comment_3330588
So bad gamedesign is Wesker´s fault and thats why you want him nerfed?
No. As I already said Wesker is fine the way he is. There could be something done about him being incredibly easy to tunnel (specifically this killer has very rewarding tunnel-into-infection mechanics) - which is bad design. But as I already said - this is not a priority. There are much bigger problems in game that needs to be looked way before wesker. But now I am only repeating myself
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340348#Comment_3340348
The last patch made it so west rpd almost never had more than 1 gen in the main room. I think the devs saw that and said : this map needs 2 gens in the main room like east.
I think they acknowledged this was a bug. And good riddance. They both are killer sided even after this bug is fixed
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341102#Comment_3341102
If 'something' one side can do comes at the expense of the other side even being playable to many people, then it's not a real loss. Especially when the exact thing you're talking about is really, really minor compared to every other technical skill or piece of game knowledge, no matter how much you want to exaggerate it.
Yes sure. So long as killer is playable survivor does not need to be. Cool. Then wonder why people only genrush or leave the game. What a surprise
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@HardhatKrugerer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342399#Comment_3342399
Yes. Thats why I have iri 1 on survivor every season easily. :D Sure. :D Something else?
"And don't even start me on specific things that got nerfed"
Start, please. I´m wondering how big is that skill gap between me what is able to easily counter Knight and you what is able to think that Wesker need nerf.
Where did I write wesker needs nerf? The killer is pretty fine the way he is (sure, tunneling and infection could get fixed, but there are a lot more problems with other killers making wesker one of the best designed killers right now).
All I wrote is that you considering MoM broken speaks a lot about you. The perk is trash. It has too many downsides. Very similar to no mither (very strong effect, that just brings way too large negative for it to be useful).
And for nerfs - let's start with
- original version of DS the very first one. That thing was actually broken.
- Boil over - last time it got buffed it was also broken and basically guaranteed escape - as a result it got nerfed right the next patch. It's useless now if you are killer with at least 300hrs (it happened exactly once that BO saved against me hooking someone - and the main reason is still successful sabo and me just barely not making it to hook because I ran into it - because you can just catch rhythm and 95% negate the effect).
- Infinite window vaulting got removed.
- Infinite loops got removed.
- Permanent sabotages got removed.
- Trapper's traps can no longer be sabotaged.
- Pre-sabotaging got removed.
- Number of loops and pallets got removed.
- Double window at shack got removed.
- Actual pallet interaction got nerfed very badly once smash hit got introduced.
- Reverse stuns got removed (or at least reduced to high degree).
- Instant flash saves got removed
- Keys got butchered to oblivion making it most useless item in game.
- BNP got nerfed really heavily.
- Instaheals are no longer insta.
and so on. But still people will complain, that devs are survivor sided. Even if survivors complain from inception of this game about camping, tunneling and pokos hits and none of these got fixed to this date. Sure. Very much survivor-sided developers.
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@Scarletprince15 said:
I believe that the nerf to eruption is ridiculous, to the point it will be a dead perk. While I agree that nerfing eruption isn't a bad idea (even though I'm killer main, it is true that the gen kicking meta is somewhat boring), I believe they go to the extreme. You didn't nerf it, you destroyed it. If the problem is the incapacitated state, I don't know, remove it and put the scream and nerf a little the regression. But 10% per gen progression? I don't think they're considering how bad it is.
Also, it is funny how survivors (with due respect) cry about any killer meta, and the devs always listen to them, taking away anything good that the killers get. Making and unreliable and ever changing meta. While the nerfs to the survivors are always changed little by little to strong buff, making a static and unchanging meta survivor.
What does this do and will do? More tunneling. More unfun things to do. Because instead of fixing core problems with the game, they keep doing thins like this. And I'm not talking about eruption. Today is eruption. Once survivors starts to whine about another perk it will be Pain resonance, or Call of brine, or any gen regres perk.
Meanwhile the game maps still have strong loops, the SWF gets stronger and stronger and all for what? Solo cue and lower MMR health.
BHVR, mods. The game must be balanced around high MMR while making low MMR not impossible. Not the other way around. Ask any other online game company they will tell you the same.
Do I believe they went too far with nerf hammer? Yes (keeping regression as it was would have been fine. Even making it 15% would not be too OP). But the perk needed to be changed badly.
The meta that you are so unhappy about resulted in 61% kill rate. Also in 200hrs killer complaining he has to face 2k hrs survivors and not getting more then 3 hooks (just guess which perk raised this killer to such an mmr). The change was necessary. It should have been done in patch 6.1.1.
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Sure the map is too big.
But please consider balancing all the maps. I can't wait until they finally make some reasonable changes to midwitch
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@HardhatKrugerer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341857#Comment_3341857
"um? Cause survivors got kicked in the face when"
- When I ignore that how horribly look this sentence, then you must be new to this game. Because survivors are getting nerfs ONLY if its too much obvious that they made it overpowered. Do you remember how long it took them to nerf it?
- DS - In the right hands its very usefull. It was abused too much. Or you think it should have unlimited using and without skill checks? Do you remember how long it took them to nerf it?
- Boil Over - Still very and very strong. Body blocking while you have boil over most of the time force killer to drop you. I´ve seen only one killer what was able to comprehend what to do against it. Do you remember how long it took them to nerf it?
- Iron Will - I guess for you it was ok to have perk that completely counter specific killer and made you stealthy no matter what. :D Do you remember how long it took them to nerf it?
- Object of Obsession - Having info about killer all the time was fine for you? And even then. Do you remember how long it took them to nerf it?
- Mettle of man - Still not nerfed enough. Only slightly debuffed. Do you remember how long it took them to nerf it?
- Keys - Do you remember how long it took them to nerf it?
- Instaheals - Do you remember how long it took them to nerf it?
- We´ll make it - Super strong perk. Very clutchy. In match where every second is important its hilarious. Ihave it as a base perk in every single game. Speed is absolutely hilarious for whole 90 seconds. :D Yes. Definitely super nerfed. :D
- Balanced Landing/Sprint Burst - These perks are most of the time seen with Vigil. And Vigil for those perks is super strong. You can´t imagine how silly it is when you have vigil and any exhaustion perk.
- Exhaustion - Do you remember how long it took them to add it?
- Self Care - The only REAL nerf.
- Flishlights - Well... fixing a bugs is nerf? :D
- Toolboxes - BnP´s are still a thing most of the time when you are at high level of gameplay. I saw BnP and Engeneers toolboxes very often. I´m using it as well, because BnP have stupidly easy skillchecks. So nerfs in toolboxes? Where? I´ve noticed only questionable BnP nerf.
- Entity blockers... hmmm.... sure because infinites was not problem at all, huh? :D Do you remember how many infinites was at maps? :D Or you don´t want to?
"Oh but when killers one actually op perk gets nerfed its automatically WAHH WAHH they never nerf survivors they always listen to them!!! WAHH IM SO UPSET!!"
- Actually OP? Hmmmm.... so lets see... a lot of top players were consistently countering so called OP perks easily yet somehow it was OP. :D Sure. Yet somehow is fine when 5 gens in 4 minutes and 10 seconds is easy thing. How many people you´lle see with other perks than with perks what are actually usefull and not useless? Survivors have tons of combos of perks. A lot of perks cooperate with perks of others and yet killer´s are not. And when they do, then its nerfed. On killer side is nerf almost instant. On survivor side its after years of video proofs. Eruption was countered by getting good. Which is why people hate Eruption. They´re not good and thats a problem. But I guess you actually believe that you are TOP and you´re destroying Otz, Tru3, Angrypug and Ochido every day, right? :D
- And when I use your analogy... anytime when perk is a littlebit usefull its still WAAA WAAAA I can´t learn how to counter things what are easily counterable and isntead of it nerf it. I don´t want to earn my escape. I want easy escape. Killers are OP. NERF.
- Do you see how silly it sounds?
- Or when devs by your words are favoring killers so much can you explain why Twins needed 3 attempts to fix their camera bug? And even now its still questionably working.
But hey. :D Killers are the complainers what have no rights to complain, huh? :D And don´t forgot to use commonly overused argument how TOP player you are and how super experienced you are and how you´ve never been beaten and have 4 kills perkless against TOP SWF teams.
This post just shows you play strictly killer. Calling DS and MoM good perks requires.... A lot of imagination. Its exactly the same thing as calling current thana (not counting legion and plague) still a good perk.
Like DS became "loose deep wound once per match" perk. Nobody uses it for a tual anti-tunneling, because most killers can down you within 6s most of the time (you will not die next to strong-enough loop - you would not need DS and if there's not strong loop then DS is pointless).
Also there are miriads of things that got nerfed on survivors. Like whole hiding playstyle is not an option any more, because maps are now bright. And don't even start me on specific things that got nerfed (but sure - devs are surv sided - that's why odds are survivor get killed in any random match instead of how it used to be where odds were survivor escapes - definitely surv-sided changes)
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/364115/eruption-finally-nerfed-thx-devs
It's now a dead perk.
Meaning that...we'll be seeing 50%+ Pain Resonance usage rates, so that's next.
Sigh.
I hope you're all very, very proud of yourselves.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341096#Comment_3341096
Now imagine you're a killer player, and are seeing more and more straight up hard genrush squads.
Welcome to the new killer meta - which is going to be more stale than the pre 6.1.0 Ruin/PR meta.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341190#Comment_3341190
Except that every single one of those perks is still a very solid, very viable pick.
Eruption is now about on par with the new Pop. It's...crap.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341108#Comment_3341108
Is this really an improvement to game health? I think it's the exact opposite.
We'll now have a killer meta that is basically one build. Even pre 6.1.0 wasn't that bad.
Ugh.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341168#Comment_3341168
It's going to be terrible. You'd be better off running Surge on those killers. Or, better yet, Pain Resonance. On everyone.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341174#Comment_3341174
It's 10% of aura reading at a time where you really don't need it.
The only thing this will enable is...yup, yet again - heavy slugging on Nurse or Blight. Which they can already do with FOR or IF.
ofc. Because remember patch 6.1 and a few days after it hit? 3.5 out of 4 kills per game? On average? This taught survivors that it's genrush or death. And even after genrush meta - killrate is still way above 50%. So why are you even surprised that survivors genrush?
Also I do play killer too. Just today I had 1 game of survivor and 1 game of killer. Well it should be no surprise both games ended in 4K... If you want to win, killer games are way to go (even if they are overall not as entertaining).
But sure. If we want to have balanced games, there will need to be adjustments. Nerf also CoB a little, do not outright kill eruption (at least return 10% flat instead of current) and nerf a little genrush perks/BNP's.