Gandor
Gandor
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337758#Comment_3337758
As a guy who plays killer 50% of the time, I know these three are busted.
Is that a reason to keep the bad killers on a chain?
Every single time a new perk comes out, everyone cries: BUT THIS ON NURSE....
Man I am so sick of getting the only perks left worth using getting nerfed because of this b*tch.
Survivors are different, because they are all the same. The only difference is height and volume, thats it.
We have 30 killers and only 3 are good enough to comp against good survivors? If this state is what we want, then why not just delete the rest?
No. There are 3 that can win most of the time if they want even against most sweaty survivors. There are actually more. I can find that old video Scott posted about someone's tournament where EVERYTHING was allowed and comp teams played against each other. Guess the results? Yes it was almost 50% kill rate (a little bit above). This is before 6.1 patch - the one where it's undeniable that killers got stronger. And sure there was nurse and blight in there. But you would be surprised there were others too - like artist.
Sure if you want to go against the strongest stuff, your killer pool is limited. But the same goes for survivor - as an example it's just not viable to take sabo toolbox and try to play altruistic. In those games nobody will take desperate measures or distortion. You just can't effort it.
EDIT: clarification of nonsensical sentence.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337752#Comment_3337752
I play wesker a lot as well. I am just saying that there are weaknesses that survivor can utilize against his power and there is very little that he can do against it at base-kit. if you just pre-dropping pallet vs him, the pallet loops are shaped in such a way that you can nearly perfect line of sight him constantly. At least that is how I play against Wesker when I am survivor. I do not let him hit me with his ability. I just use line of sight against him and he has no windows of opportunity, pardon the pun on the perk.
I play him as well, but every time I hit a survivor with his ability, I can easily spot a routing play in survivor's gameplay that they could have utilized against me to make the hit harder or avoid hit entirely. He is a killer that relies on survivor to make poor positional plays for him to capitalize on. I do not think he is bad but its up to survivor to make mistakes for me to hit them at base-kit.
Edit: I am not saying the killer is bad. I just think he could be better and less focused on infection against efficient gen teams.
Well that means you go only the "predictable" way. Like sure. There's nothing you can do at 2 rocks loop (but you can bruteforce it quickly forcing survivor to some other loop you can play around). And if the survivor is hell of a good, even 2-cars loop is impossible (think badham around main). But this is not true at most loops - long wall gym being one example of a loop that is normally super strong for survivors - but wesker CAN outplay it. And I do get my hits there - via outplay. It's not guaranteed win for me and it's not guaranteed win for survivors (no matter their pathing). And many loops are like this. It's just that I can't just mindlessly chase and hope for the best.
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We are talking about buffs that do literally NOTHING for experienced SWF comms players. So why the lash out for buff that buffs strictly players that are weaker (or at minimum less experienced)?
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337697#Comment_3337697
NURSE! Not Killers. Get this.
Compare the strongest stuff to strongest stuff. 4x commodius BNP comp squad is also something you will just not see in your average game (BNP's disappear after use so white ward will not help you unlike black ward with MDR+yakuyoke amulet - making 4 BNP'S much rarer sight to see).
And then there are also blights and spirits...
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337713#Comment_3337713
nope. If my opponent pre-drop pallets, I cannot outplay survivor because I cannot get an angle to land his ability. If I vault a pallet, I am kicked out of his virulent bound and turned into an m1 killer where the survivor can loop the pallet indefinitely because pallet is safe when dropped.
The only way to currently use his ability to use his ability between loops but survivor has counter-play there as well where they hide behind obstacles where I do not have an angle to hit them. If I miss, then I am put into a cooldown where survivor is able to route to another pallet.
TL:DR I rely on my opponent to make positional errors in order to be able to have an opportunity to hit my opponent. One dimensional gameplay. Its up to survivor to mess up. Luckily, most survivor are not remarkable in their positioning and movement such that you can capitalize off their mistakes. so bad killer right?
That is until you look at his infection mechanic and add-on associated with it. Video conference device and red herb are add-on that increase infection meter rate and how much charge you build when you hit a survivor. these two add-on allow him to tunnel survivors off hook because base-kit BT. On first hit, you will get 30 charges of his infection with red herb. When you down survivor and hook them, they will drop down to 50% infection. If you camp and tunnel survivor off hook by hitting base-kit BT, the 50% infection will rise to 80%(+30 charges) and within 20 seconds, the video conference device add-on will make survivor fully infected applying negative debuff of 8% hindered. Now you cannot loop him and the chase is killer sided.
so base-kit, worthless. Abuse infection mechanic with add-on's with a tunnel playstyle and now he is tunnel 1vs1 machine. Base-kit, his chase is survivor sided. tunnel-wise and infection wise, his chase is killer-sided. The infection is meant to be side objective, like gen-defence type mechanic and his power should be viable to get hits without requiring the survivor to be fully infected. The irony is that once you are fully infected, you do not need his power to begin with due to permanent 8% hindered bonus. Just m1 wesker wins at that point.
I main wesker. I have to disagree with you on many accounts. Lots of loops (shack being best example) are actually mainly about you as a killer and survivor can make it only harder (with shack being on reaction so if you happen to be precise, survivor has no counterplay). But sure some loops you are basic M1 killer (I probably paradoxically struggle the most on shelter woods).
I do win most (not all) of my games - I guess my kill rate is somewhere around 70%. My build is corrupt, darkness revealed, overcharge and pain res + uroboros tendrils (brown movement between bounds addon) and lion medalion (yellow throw distance addon - partial counter to open field maps like every corn map + reward if you can throw someone at map corner). I don't camp (endgame does not count and I don't go out of my way to not camp if patrolling gens) and I don't tunnel (meaning I try to prefer unhooker - but if I can't find unhooker or unhooked bodyblocks or I happen to later (not next to hook, already healthy) find unhooked person or he starts doing gens, then he's fair game for me) - meaning infection rarely helps me in chase even if it's huge help as slowdown. Under all these conditions, I am pretty sure my kill rate is still around 70%. Maybe a little more.
The killer is very well designed. If only they fixed tunnel-after-unhook infection mechanics + some funky bugs here and there, I would consider him perfect.
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@Milo said:
The "Balanced Landing" perk has the property of not slowing down after falling, so why should "Overcome" be garbage that does nothing.Because one has a very specific condition that (mostly) works on one place in all maps and the other requires you being hit.
But sure yeah, the perk is bad, it should work when you have endurance also.
I will even correct that one, because BL gets slowed down by falling - the stagger effect is greatly reduced, not deleted. Otherwise full agreement
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@Marik1987 said:
Currently, we receive one new daily ritual mission per day with the option of replace a daily once.
Some players complain that they always get killer-dailies, others complain about getting survivor-dailies only.
How about getting 2-3 dailies per day, one for killer, one for survivor and maybe a third random one?
There is no negative thing about this and you are able to force players to play both roles more constantly.
With the new grind since the Bloodweb-Prices are reduced, you could also reduce the dailies to 20K per Daily, which means a player could earn 40K a day if he wants to (besides the Mori-needed-ones which currently grant 60K).
I think this is very good idea. More players should be incentivized to play both roles to get the perspective.
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Isn't that good?
Having killer that can be countered, but does incredibly good when played well? Shouldn't all killers be like that?
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@Notionless said:
I agree. To me, the best solution is to make it not 100% precise, just show 20,40,60,80% and thats already good enough info, and doesnt lead to any decent survivor recognizing tinkerer.
Actually imprecise indication like this would be step up also for gen progress and recovery progress. It would mimick SWF communication way better then current hud.
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@Notionless said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337006#Comment_3337006
no it is SWF. I watched both videos and you can tell that Hens team is refraining from using Bnp/antihemorragig syringe, any perk more than twice, stuff like that.
If a SWF wants to win against every killer that isnt a nurse or a really good blight, they need to just bring the strongest stuff and its easy sailings.
Best part, even if its a good nurse/blight the SWF can still destroy them if they use all tools available. There is a reason for tournament rulesets after all.
Tournament ruleset goes both ways. I don't think there's a single tournament that allows MDR amulet spirit. Because if the killer has good hearing and survivor is not at god pallet, then there's nothing you can do ever. Given the speed even vaulting at luckily best timing will not help you at most tiles.
SWF can loose very easily. And they do so very often. All killer needs to do is take stronger arms and enjoy his 555 winstreak (and supaalf played against comp team stream snipers bringing strongest stuff possible too - and yet his streak is still not broken - even comp team wasn't able to get 2 out even if that was their sole goal). Supaalf made actually yt video about it.
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337363#Comment_3337363
Survs can cleanse it. Killers snuff Totems and they get reblessed for infernity. But they can bring a perk for guessing. Great Balance.
Pls read the thread and what OP suggests. Keep in mind I am not arguing about the effect being too much on it's own. I am arguing that specific buff given specific build and specific killer w his power on small map would create this problem.
@DBDFreddyK said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337363#Comment_3337363
I don't see how all I said was take away the health aspect that is literally the only change I made to it. Who even brings Thrill of the Hunt? I have not seen a single killer bring Thrill of the Hunt in months if not an entire year. I have only come across FTD like once since its release. All they have to do is cleanse it once and it's like gone for the rest of the trial. Do you honestly think a killer is going to get value out of FTD by camping and proxy camping FTD Totem? That is not even how you use it. You literally have to hit a Survivor and let them get away so that hinders you, then it takes 25 seconds to even do anything, and currently, if they heal you literally get no value from it, then you hit another Survivor after they heal and now you can't down that Survivor or FTD deactivates, so, that is literally 2 chases that you are forced to give up, with no hooks on the board, as generators are being completed. Due to the healing aspect, it is literally useless on certain killers and taking 25 seconds just to get value once is stupid because Survivors can heal in what 4-10 seconds? And it takes 25 seconds just for the perk to do something? So right now, it is a useless perk that does nothing nearly all game unless you are Legion or Plague.
I am not saying FTD is OP and don't buff it. I am literally saying there's a loophole that would create something with no counters. This loophole can't be in game so this buff is not good. The reason isn't that this perk alone would be too strong. But the combination would be unfair.
But say totems don't loose progress immediatelly when you stop working on them - now I have 0 problems with the buff (this was an example, there are more ways to fix it - or alternatively forgetting the original suggestion and adding different buff to the perk)
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337006#Comment_3337006
and there were also videos where the SWF without strong genrush builds makes 200 victories in a row
550 and still going vs 220 and it ended. Hmmm...
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@DBDFreddyK said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337353#Comment_3337353
Survivors would say that it is not fair
I think you misunderstood me. Your FTD could possibly create scenario, where you take dhope and it can't be cleansed. Such a dhope is comparable to being unhookable with old boil over.
The biggest thing about FTD is not that your position is revealed. That's only bonus. But when you scream, you are forced to stop doing anything you do. In case of totems, it means you start from 0.
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CoB or OC (not both at the same time), pain res, jolt, dms, deadlock (except facecamp bubba), corrupt are all fine examples of good regression/gen stalling perks. Pop was a tiny bit too strong (25% from 90 is more then 25% from 80 that it was), but now it's underwhelming (making it 20% flat would be ok in my eyes - but again, combo w CoB/OC would be possible problem).
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337353#Comment_3337353
you could change Devour into 4 Stacks needed for the One-Shot for example. There are solutions everywhere. His point that Hex-Perks are MOSTLY useless is true, tho. The Totem-Spawns are well known and a Standard M1-Killer like Trapper or Freddy cannot defend Gens and Totems and Chase at the same time. A Blight has more options for this for example.
I am not arguing hexes are OP. I agree they should get buff. But I am pointing out flaw with his FTD buff creating scenario that can't be countered in any way (and telling that you should have brought perk X or you have no chance at game is not healthy - for same reason as boil over - which I already explained).
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Sounds just like unfounded raging only.
I can't win my games. I took perks that carried me a lot making me win a lot of games and now that my mmr adjusted for it I get survivors able to counter all that. 60% kill rate is not enough. Make it 99%, or I am leaving the gaaaame.
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@DBDFreddyK said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336787#Comment_3336787
How can you compare the 2? One has to do with the wiggle meter and the other reveals locations for like 2 seconds where Boil Over literally granted free escapes to the point you had to slug for a win or maybe even a kill.
Easy. You create dhope that literally can't be cleansed. Because timings. It's the exact same thing
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Hard disagree to OP. When survivors play sabo squads, there's sometimes no alternative. When I see multiple people and know their location, I might risk UB/exponential to get a chance at win.
Slugged person is someone that can't do anything useful and requires help/time from other survivor while not taking away my time in animations or when carrying + no risk from saves - making it 100% legit tactics trying to win the game. Taking this aspect away is 100% detrimental to the game. This "tactical" slugging is IMO healthy part of game and should stay in a game (and I say that as survivor main).
However there are different kind of slugs - like being toxic when everyone is downed. Or camping someone's body just so that he will not play (basically throwing the game, because other 3 ppl can freely finish all gens). I am not even fan of slugging for 4k. I would be absolutely OK if there was some mechanics that prevented this kind of slugging (and suicide button seems to do that job in all 3 cases).
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@Pinheadftw said:
After reading this, all I can say is this a very uneducated post. BHVR has stated the game is meant to be a bit more Killer Sided. They want a 60% kill rate. If you have payed any attention to high MMR SWF's they will almost always destroy a killer. When it comes to SWFs, survivors are ahead. In higher level gameplay you won't experience a lot of camping and tunnelling, as they are effective, but camping doesn't really apply enough pressure. and 2 good survivors can score a save easily enough. Survivors are just to blame. The amount of Bully squads I see now is disturbing. Non stop picking on the guy playing killer. Always there with a flashlight, taunting etc. Before you throw the blame at killers, accept some as well. As for camping and tunneling, as much as they are unfun, they are a method of fun. If they wearn't allowed, they wouldn't be in the game, PERIOD. No other statement is necessary.
There was an experiment - supaalf - one of best nurse players doing his incredible 550 winstreak on nurse vs Hens's group one of best SWF groups there are against each other. You guessed it, supaalf won (at 3 gens to be done).
The game is slightly killer sided at all levels. Like don't take me wrong - the game can be very survivor sided at specific instances taking into account builds, maps, RNG, etc. But overall, it's killers that have the upper hand right now - not the SWF
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336736#Comment_3336736
Survivor is supposed to get killed 60% of the time. That's what the devs said they wanted and that is the "rate". You look at this and say from that that the survivor is the weaker side.
When everyone is bad at the game killer has an advantage. When both sides have learned a few tricks the game is roughly even. When survivors have become grandmasters and use SWF to always have voice coms - they run away with the game.
-"say Ayrun for example"
Maybe you should look at the hardcore challenge they do. For the most part they play with trash perks and limited items but are very skilled players. The mop the floor against most of the killers they play against.
I would love to see them do a bully mode where they just bring the absolute most powerful things with the intent of trying to completely "run away" with the game.
I think you need to do yourself a favor and go look up the marth experiments.
Ayrun was trying to do soloQ streak for a half a year. Tryharding to max. Only restriction was not using key. Everything counted, BNP's, anything else possible. In half a year he couldn't get above 34...
Now can you again say that killers are weak? And strictly soloQ buffs went overboard? When there is SADAKO streak of 100 wins?
Also you talk swf and then compare to all killers. But when I say best solo, suddenly all killers argument is not so interesting right? Because getting above 34 with trapper is much more possible. But when speaking about 4man swf that scrim together, then in this case comparing that to supaalf 550 win streak is unfair... Well guess what. Pick your parameters and then compare.
And about kill rate - I am still convinced devs target of 60% is unfair by 10%. Pvp games should be balanced and both sides should have equal chance - in case of 2 teams that's 50% for both (where any draws are evenly split between win and losses). There was no argument in the forum that would convince me otherwise (all I heard so far is a, match wins but count draws the same as losses or b, that I am biased and illogical or c, that I should welcome being on the loosing end because that's challenge and killers are weaker even if they on average win more. So no actually good argument was given to me)
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@DBDFreddyK said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336751#Comment_3336751
So don't debate it? Just take the info and move on? I'm not built like that. So, if it prevents Survivors from bringing the usual every game DH, UB, OTR, PTS, and every other meta perk in the game its just a little too oppressive I guess.
No. I can bring nonmeta perks that help me in special occasions. Like potential energy, autodidact, soul guard and deserate measures - all perks that are niche and none of them good in regular game. And still have 0% chance if you decide to go for thrill of the hunt + this new FTD.
You are creating situation that can only be countered by predicting weird build. That's not ok. Same way as old boil over+ no mither and old rpd library just wasn't fair. It was good thing that the thing got patched away. Now let's not create same stupid thing on the other side
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336163#Comment_3336163
The reason why i never gen kick is because i think the way they structured order action is least convenient way possible for killer. it is not very time efficient and chase pressure is always better then over-time regression. over-time regression if you do not 3 gen is win-more mechanic. you need already be winning super hard and pressuring team super hard for over-time regression to be doing anything that by the time over-time regression does anything, you are already winning/in a winning position. survivor need to have zero output in gen efficiency(0 people on generator) for over-time regression to be relevant for killer, otherwise your just trading generator progression in 1 gen for another gen and survivor progress gens way faster then you regress them, so trading progression with regression is not effective strategy for killer.
this is why over-time regression works in 3 gens because the strength in 3 gens is ability to pressure all survivors into 0% efficiency where killer regression can be faster then the survivor up time on objective. In every other case, the killer just wastes time kicking gens and accomplish nothing.
1, it's not useless. Killer slows survivor this way. Once killer is able to actually revert the progression, the game is in problem - survivors can't win that game no matter how long it will take, how good they loop or anything else (because killer can always reset all survivor's effort). This would be the same as survivors being able to "heal" hook states quicker then killer is able to hook survivors (in such a case killer would be just unable to win no matter what he would do, but using alternative ways to win = bleeding out survivors. But survivors don't have full-team alternative - hatch works only for last survivor).
2, but I like your suggestion about buffing long distance guards. I would probably make them even 10% quicker, but drawing makes sound and survivors need to run away in time. If killer wins the mindgame (guesses correctly the survivor position - killer should have tangible chance to get it right, but survs should be able to also dodge it if they read the killer's intention correctly), guards should catch them on their own (or have high chance of doing so). On the other hand, make instadrop guard tactics harder by making killer slower. I think this would create much more interesting killer. Something like "long-range-only" huntress that can "shoot" behind obstacles.
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@Ithiria said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325725#Comment_3325725
Dead dawg is def a very killer-sided map but some of the breakable walls do create infinites if broken. Like the one in the back side of the saloon by the basement, fortunately no one ever breaks that one.
People do break them sometimes. And many survivors don't know they can abuse created infinite (and some killers are immune - like wesker or spirit).
But this one is not a real problem so long as survivors have no means to open breakable walls (which they don't). So I don't see any real issue
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336674#Comment_3336674
Great, so based on the fact that BHVR wants average 60% kill rate (assuming 2% margin of error)...
https://gonintendo.com/attachments/image/15970/file/e985e46cf38ae5a3bf9ebb02d95d8133.png
Looks like we need:
MAJOR buffs:
- Nurse
- Trickster
- Hillbilly
- Demogorgon
- Doctor
Minor Buffs:
- Trapper
- Blight
- Twins
- Deathslinger
- Huntress
Minor nerfs:
- Pinhead
- Sadako
- Wesker
And if you disagree, then you don't believe the game should be balanced around average players, you believe the game should be balanced around average SURVIVOR players, but balanced around the top tier KILLER players. Which simply shows that you are extremely biased.
So which is?
Do we:
- Balance the game around average players
- Balance the game around top players
- You are biased
1, I still think 60% is a mistake, but let's forget that for the sake of further discussion
2, sure. The killers you mentioned should probably get buffs. BUT only things that help average player and are useless for skilled killer (alternatively it can buff also best players, but they should get compensation nerf in some regards that are best used by best nurses). So in case of nurse - maybe make that brown addon showing you blink location basekit.
Ideally the game should be balanced for every mmr level. Sure there can be some killers that are training wheels for beginners (good in low mmr, bad otherwise), sure there will always be some killers that are just better at highest level of play. But there should never be a position where other side has no chance and just has to take L without any possible counterplay. I don't think we are there right now, but we were dangeriously close with knight and 3gen camping at one time (and we are still not far from it).
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@DBDFreddyK said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336613#Comment_3336613
So, Undying a perk that literally does nothing other than bring totems back after 80 seconds of a totem being cleansed, and resets tokens back to zero so as long as a Dull Totem remains on the map, is a perk on steroids? And infinite Boons are fine?
Survivors have more than enough perks to increase cleansing speeds, the perks are in the game to be used.
It seems high mobility killers are really holding us back from getting any kind of fun perk for killer and if they are that powerful to the point we can't have anything fun for all killers these high mobility killers need to be nerfed.
Undying has aura reading. This part is already useful in some niche situations. I think this part could be even buffed. Make the area 16m for dulls instead of 4m. That's an interesting buff making the perk possibly good on it's own (it is also a nerf to boons, because it would show boon location with quite a lot of time to spare to actually intercept it if u want, or snuff it without search time). Making undying that strong sounds like way too much.
Argument about perks that increase cleansing speed is about as bad as some survivors claiming old boil over was ok, because killer can take iron grasp. No it wasn't ok. Killer can't change his build during the game, because he found out he needs it. And this works the same for survivors.
But really. Stop defending things where you went overboard. You made suggestion about 9 perks where for 6 perks everyone agreed it's a good idea. Leave those 3 problematic be a d you already get 6 more interesting perks (if devs cared to do that of course).
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336581#Comment_3336581
-"I don't feel this is true at all."
And that tells me we are playing a completely different game because you are not playing vs only high MMR lobbies.
Mind games work very well vs bad players and often backfire vs the very best. They do not work vs the very best players because they know where to stand on every tile to prevent a 50/50 from being an option. Some of them do things that I am not allowed to say what so that they have an advantage.
Boons offer fast unlimited healing for the survivors. To say the least the killer should be able to break bones when they kick the boon. Imagine how broken the game would be if you could only overwrite a hex with a boon. That's not a very realistic game change but how about if the killer could just relight blood fervor infinitely unless all the bones were broken? You would see that totem used way more often and survivors would need to waste time breaking every totem every game - making CoH far less useful.
DBD has a rule set for survivors and a different rule set for killers.
1) Survivors are allowed to tunnel generators but Killers are not allowed to tunnel survivors.
2) Hexes are high risk with meh reward and boons are low risk with high reward.
3) SWF is fine but Nurse and Blight ruin the game.
There's a soft cap in place. If you vet vastly different survivors... Maybe it means that in fact you are not as strong as you think?
Also do you feel like coconut/otz/supaalt/hens/spookyloops/..... The list is super long .... Have any troubles winning the game if/when they decide to play super sweaty without handicapping themselves? Or do you get better survivors then they do (especially if they do streaks)?
Do you really feel like they are super minority of players? Because today I had survivor incentived (25% to 100%) whole day, but not a minute of any incentives on killer side.
Or let's go at it from the other side. Take best survivor player there is - say Ayrun for example. Let him tryhard to maximum and play in soloQ trying to go for as long winstreak as possible for half a year without any pause. What do you think. Where will he get himself? Survivor is "OP" so by your words he should get to some ridiculous number right? Like 34.... Yes. 34. There's 100 escape streak on sadako, but only 34 on solo survivor. Because survivors are OP and so killers objectively need buffs, because soloQ got some extra information....
Do you feel bad now? You argue for killer buffs because THE weakest role in whole game got buffs that do exactly nothing for anybody else but them.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336404#Comment_3336404
"I never noticed killer takes minutes to injure a person. Because if you don't want to make stupid boon = waste of time, then this is the case."
There's no need to be hyperbolic. Even the average person in DBD understands that heals should not take less time than injures, that's bad design. I'm not saying killers take minutes for hits, but I am saying they typically take longer than 21 seconds which is a CoH heal.
"Also as I said earlier - killers are not the problem now. 60% kill rate. Killer was never easier as is now after 6.1. there is actually 0 reasons to buff killers any more. This especially is super bad idea."
This is flawed reasoning. You shouldn't quote kills in reference to balance as they are skewed by a multitude of factors that make it near irrelevant. Even the devs have said repeatedly not to draw conclusions from those kill rates because of this. Also I don't think it's the easiest it's ever been for killer, too many people are watching their favorite streamer repeat this instead of actually having the game experience themselves.
"If you still have problems as a killer after 6.1, then I suggest you watch your games and try to learn from your mistakes. Watch more experienced players. Even people like Otz that currently is a little salty - wins most of the matches without strong slowdowns and busted addons against survivors with best items and perks..."
I don't think you have very much experience at high MMR if you're feeling this way. High MMR matches against equally good SWF groups is a completely different game than lots of the player base experiences. Most high end killers only win through being forced to tunnel someone out asap, that's how bad it is.
There's a difference between winning and why you are winning. Most matches killers win are through survivors making lots of mistakes, if both sides play perfectly you will lose almost every time as killer. This is why kills is not indicative of balance as I mentioned earlier, this is confusing correlation with causation.
It's more important to understand why someone is winning than just if they won.
21s heals with boons is the same thing as saying eruption on each trigger slows down the game by 120,75s. Like under ideal conditions, you are right. Under realistic conditions, it takes anything between 21s (a rare thing, but possible) and literal minutes - if it's even possible at all.
too many people are watching their favorite streamer repeat this instead of actually having the game experience themselves.
But that's not true. I say it from my personal experience as well as from streamers. I do play killer. I just play survivors more. And winning as killer or at least not loosing is easier in my personal experience. It's not 100% (it can be very near that if I decide to take some nasty things for a change). And of course I also get sometimes 4 out. But it's generally easier to win as killer (or at least not loose) the it is for survivor - at least for me.
I don't think you have very much experience at high MMR if you're feeling this way.
But this is exactly it. You loose some games. You loose them bad. You win some games without effort - even feeling bad for the other side. The important thing is, how it averages out. And I already wrote how it averages in my games in previous paragraph.
Most matches killers win are through survivors making lots of mistakes, if both sides play perfectly you will lose almost every time as killer.
I don't feel this is true at all. There are some insane things killers can do - forcing people into 50:50 or outright winning stuff. What I feel is, that you don't have chance if you take chill build while the other side takes "nukes". No matter which side we are talking about. Like there's literally nothing you can do against good (not even god) spirit with MDR + amulet + 4 regression perks. Same for the other side - 4man stacked with BNP's.
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@Bwsted said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335040#Comment_3335040
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335651#Comment_3335651
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334998#Comment_3334998
I would argue that 7% is not a small chance at all, especially when that applies to 4 people independently.
Also, default skill check chance is what? 8% ? That means you have essentially the same chance of getting an impossibile skill check when leaving as you do getting a nomal one when you stay on repair. Now, think about how many of those you get and the picture becomes clearer.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335375#Comment_3335375
That's very interesting. Thanks for sharing. Although, I'm not entirely sure I understand. Do you have that option enabled that you press the repair button to get on the gen and then you don't have to hold it down to repair? (I forget how it's called in the menu, action toggle or something).
So, essentially, if you just press the repair button again you leave the gen preventing the skill check. Is that what you meant?
it's the feeling that you lost the game because of just bad luck. Makes you feel terrible. And it's not like say sabotage taking away hook from you - which feels bad but it feels good for the other side. These random skillchecks are something the other side does not even know about (there's no way to distinguish it from survivor just failing) + there's nothing killer can do about them (does not bring you sense of accomplishment). For these reasons, I feel it's kind of stupid it's still in a game.
If it was more consistent - say you get them always when touching gen mid chase (ideally with possibility to counter it if you can spare a single second staying on a gen), that would bring sense of accomplishment for killer (sneaking up on survivors - earning that regression) and feel less bad for survivors (you were not screwed by something you had 0 control over and is based on pure luck only - you got outplayed).
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IMO nurse still needs nerfs. But those nerfs should strictly be in fixing her bugs. She is super strong, but you actually can play against her now. Still - it's not cool that stunning her (getting label and points for it in top right corner) even if she is not in fatigue sometimes does not register at all. Or that she can attack you even before she finishes her blink (which is not how she should work according to wiki). If these things are fixed, then she is already mostly fine.
I would still not be opposed if stun drained her charges, but that would be a bonus.
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@DBDFreddyK said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336115#Comment_3336115
I did say undying bringing a totem back to life resets the tokens back to 0.
If they know you have Haunted who is going to keep cleansing Hex Totems?
With the current healing speeds FTD hardly gets any value as is because if you hit them and down them you get no value, and if they run off and heal instead of searching for the totem you get no value. It right now is almost a useless perk. Impossible to counter? it is nearly impossible to use in its current state due to healing speeds.
Yes you cleanse them if there's a hex you need to get away. Dhope being best example, but there are others (blood favor being other good example).
FTD is problem, because screams interrupt you. And once you are interrupted, cleansing totems resets to 0. Combine this fact with thrill of the hunt and say calm doctor on small map and you have serious trouble cleansing any totem. This IS problem. I am not saying that FTD should not get buff. I agree that in current state the perk is bad and needs some love. I just don't want to have another "you have no counter play" buff.
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/363291/skill-checks-when-leaving-gens
Potential Energy is the worst perk that does nothing and only makes it worse. You do not give progress to the generator, you spend 30 seconds on this nonsense, as a result, you get a killer hit on health / miss on the skill check, as a result, you lost all the time / progress / nerves. If he multiplied the progress received by 2 times, then the risk would be justified, and since the perk is rubbish or charged in parallel with the repair, then this was at least somehow attractive. For this reason, I will not even buy this hero even now his book.
TBF his fogwise is good perk (there are better perks, but this one is still on a good side). Just forget about potential energy. That perk is indeed absolutely hopelessly bad
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329537#Comment_3329537
The only thing I'm going to comment from all that (because sorry, but I don't see how anything of what you said there is relevant to anything being commented before) is the "Loosing and feeling good about it is mark of good game design" part... no, it is not.
"Feeling good", whatever losing or winning, is totally subjective and on you, not on the game design or other players. In fact, yesterday SpooknJukes uploaded a video about this topic and I think he explains it pretty well, showcasing the "entitlement of having fun" mentality many DbD players have, both survivors and killers. So, instead of writing a long post, I will just put it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moCAT6LOUSE&ab_channel=SpooknJukes
Sure. Both sides can be entitled. Both sides can be toxic. For entitled people nothing will be good enough but their desired result.
But there still is something like objectively good and bad design. If you remove looping, take away possibilities for both sides, force everyone into just tunneling and camping and make gens last 30s instead of 90, the game would be objectively worse even if it did not change balance in any way. And you can feel good when you loose under good game design (if you are not entitled).
For example I love to loose against "chasing bubba" (a rare breed that will never hook at basement and will sprint away from hook given their reputation). Those games are indeed fun and it feels good to be outplayed by such a killer (because he indeed needs to outplay you to win). Also such bubbas even if rare - they exist also in high mmr - I play in a group where the average hours on survivor are somewhere around 5k hrs.
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@Blueberry said:
I don't think we need limited heals, the issue is the speed of healing.
Currently healing and self heals are out of control fast. CoH and Medkits are way too strong to where it makes injures meaningless. Self healing in general should almost always be pretty bad unless they are dedicating like multiple perks to it. For injures to mean something healing needs to take longer and generally speaking needs to make two survivors get off gens to do it.
Currently CoH as 1/16 perks can make survivors self heal faster than it takes most m1 killer to even get the hit to begin with and it's infinite, that's bad design. Medkits are even more extreme than that.
CoH should be only faster group heals or only really slow self heals. When injures don't mean anything it encourages people to tunnel more.
I never noticed killer takes minutes to injure a person. Because if you don't want to make stupid boon = waste of time, then this is the case.
---
Also as I said earlier - killers are not the problem now. 60% kill rate. Killer was never easier as is now after 6.1. there is actually 0 reasons to buff killers any more. This especially is super bad idea.
If you still have problems as a killer after 6.1, then I suggest you watch your games and try to learn from your mistakes. Watch more experienced players. Even people like Otz that currently is a little salty - wins most of the matches without strong slowdowns and busted addons against survivors with best items and perks...
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336104#Comment_3336104
Let me know when your average survivor player is ~4000 hours and has played in multiple DBD tournaments.
There is a reason Blight and Nurse are the killers that get used in tournaments.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336111#Comment_3336111
And that's where you are wrong because as I already mentioned Blight and Nurse largely ignore pallet mechanics.
Afaik in tournaments there are many killers used with different rules. This applies also to addons and survivor restrictions and selected maps to be played. I see no good argument there. (But if you realy need it, then apart from blight/nurse there are a lot of spirits, weskers, artists, hags, twinses, nemesises, demogorgons, plagues, etc). Sure each of them have different rules, but rules apply to both sides (I haven't seen many tournaments with mdr amulet spirits for example).
Also this game is mostly not a tournament. I play to win, but at foremost I play to have fun. This means that 1 of my perks will always be saboteur - a perk you will never ever see in tournaments, because sabo plays (against experienced killers) are just pure bad idea and something that can backfire even if played absolutely perfectly (depending on map and hook RNG).
Also the game have fairly benevolent soft cap. That means once you reach it, you get same opponents as literally best players this game has. Meaning even if you are way better then me, I am quite sure we get same opponents. And most of them most of the times are not comp players with 4k+ hours with at least 1K out of them in scrims...
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@HardhatKrugerer said:
I disagree, completely. I think it should have been even longer and more. For example this
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/02RN5QBZH8L6/sn-c3-admek-obrazovky-2858-29.png
Why should I suffer from Disconnecters? I escaped just because I was on the other side of the map when killer closed the hatch so he has not enough time. And even then I got hit at the gate after this I clicked quickly enough but rest of the team were out in the first 6 minutes. Do you know how disrespectfull and how much the others suffer from disconnecting? Its not fun at all. It ruin rest of the match for both sides. For your team and for killer as well. When I get a disconnecters against me as a killer I´m giving them free escape and I´m helping them to earn max amount of pips as possible. He ruined MY fun and he runied fun of t¨his team. How do you think it looks like for a new players? As a new player first things what you see is guy who disconnects and ruin everything just because he has bad connection or he just don´t want to play against certain killer. Disconnecting should be penalized much harder and give all players in the actual match 4 iri emblems no matter what happens next. I there is something I really don´t like and I can´t get its disconnecting and ruining fun of others for purpose.
TBF after 1st person disconnects, you should not blame the others. The game is practically impossible for survivors (if MM by chance does not screw up spectacularly) after early DC. It's just enduring the torment at that point.
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@DBDFreddyK said:
I just wanted to toss out some ideas I came up with to improve some of the perks you hardly ever see any killers use.
Claustrophobia:
Every time a generator is completed, all windows and vault locations within a 32-meter radius of the killer's position are blocked for all Survivors, for the next 15 seconds.
You see the aura of the vault locations blocked by Claustrophobia for the duration.
Reason: This perk currently, is 100% useless. Currently, if a generator gets completed and I am not near the completed generator I literally get no value. If I am chasing a Survivor and the Survivor is running away from the generators, how am I supposed to get any value out of this perk? My change reduces the time the perk remains active, but also helps the killer in the chase if a generator gets completed.
Dying Light:
You become obsessed with one Survivor.
Each time you hook a Survivor other than the Obsession, if the Obsession is alive, you and the Obsession gain a token.
Your Obsession gains a 3% action speed bonus to unhooking and healing other Survivors for each token.
If the Obsession is alive, all Survivors who are not the Obsession get 3% penalty to repair, healing and sabotage speeds for each token.
Reason: The current Dying Light seems to buff the Obsession more than it does the killer so why would anyone use this other than The Plague? This change makes it more fair for both sides.
Undying:
When a Hex Totem is cleansed, or blessed Undying activates.
Undying will transfer the cleansed, or blessed Hex Totem to a Dull Totem so as long as a dull totem remains on the map.
After Undying has activated it will go on an 80 second cooldown.
All tokens will be lost when the Hex Totem has been transferred to a dull totem.
Reason: HEX: Undying is not true to its name. How can you call something Undying that can be taken away? An 80 second cooldown and token loss is more than fair.
Scourge Hook: Insidious:
At the start of the trial, up to 4 random hooks are changed into scourge hooks. You see their auras in white.
Anytime a Survivor is hooked on a scourge hook the killer will be granted the Undetectable status effect until the hooked Survivor has been unhooked.
Reason: Hardly anyone uses this other than to meme, so I think this change would make the perk worth using. Currently, the perk is only worth using while camping. My change makes the perk where you do not rely on camping, but camping is still an option, as long as the Survivor remains hooked.
Oppression:
When you damage a generator, up to 3 other random generators also begin regressing.
If the affected generators are being repaired, any Survivors repairing them will recieve a difficult Skill Check.
Oppression has a cooldown of 60 seconds.
Reason: Skill Checks are not very hard to achieve in this game so 80 seconds is way too long to really get any value, especially considering the generators only take 90 seconds to complete.
Remember Me:
You become obsessed with one Survivor. Each time your Obsession loses a health state, you increase the opening time of the exit gates by 4 seconds up to a maximum of 16 additional seconds.
If an exit gate switch has been progressed, and the exit gate has not been opened, the progression of the exit gate will immediately begin to regress by 0.5 seconds, per second.
The Obsession is not affected by Remember Me.
Reason: Do I really need to explain why this change is needed?
Shattered Hope:
Whenever you snuff a Boon Totem, the totem is destroyed instead.
When you destroy a Boon Totem this way, the auras of all Survivors are revealed to you for 8 seconds.
Reason: Currently if no one is near you when you snuff a totem the perk literally gets no value.
Dragon's Grip:
The perk is fine as is, but currently has a bug.
The scream is supposed to force a Survivor to let go of a generator, but currently does not. Making certain perk combinations involving generators, unusable. Example: Dragon's Grip + Overcharge.
HEX: Face The Darkness:
Injuring a Survivor by any means lights a Dull Totem, activating the Hex.
While the Hex is active, all other Survivors outside of your Terror Radius will scream every 25 seconds, revealing their positions and auras for 2 seconds.
When the Survivor enters the dying state, the Hex totem becomes dull again and this perk deactivates.
Reason: This perk currently has way too much counterplay. If you down the Survivor you hit, you lose the totem. And if the injured Survivor heals instead of looking for the totem, you lose the totem. Current healing speeds make this perk get little to no value. So, take away the healing aspect and you might have a perk worth using.
Generally not a bad take. However undying can't get this buff so long as devour hope exists. Also it would be probably bit too generous buff to haunted ground.
Also I am not sure about face the darkness with thrill of the hunt and no heals. It might again create some impossible-to-counter scenarios (I am not 100% sure about this one)
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336086#Comment_3336086
Most people haven't realized yet but the Hud changes are just way too much. Most people I know who were killer mains quit years ago. I don't think many people are going to keep playing killer unless some massive buff comes along as a response.
This affects the players at high MMR the most but it will have a trickle down effect. If there is no one in queue but someone who is 1601 MMR then they will be the one selected to play the 2400 bully squad. That killer will either switch to a more efficient killer or stop playing the game. Either outcome hurts the game longevity.
From my experience there is more then enough high mmr killers and I am pretty sure I already hit soft cap with both roles (mind you I don't say I am the best player there is). Maybe it's a regional issue if you have that experience? In Europe I feel fine playing both roles (even if I play survivors way more, I do play killers too). And especially after 6.1 it does not feel super hard. Compared to what it was years ago at minimum.
Anyway limiting heals is absolute no-go for me. It would remove me from the game as survivor and as a direct result also as killer (I would loose social contact associated with the game making it meaningless to try to hold onto it). So specifically this idea in my eyes would 100% kill the game (for me)
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@jinx3d said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335491#Comment_3335491
what killer do you play? rarity of addons doesnt mean #########, ghostfaces best are brown
Sure there are exceptions. Sure one of my killers is exception (twins and toy sword - and I do play that addon), but I play around 20 killers (wesker, spirit and twins a lot at this time) and on average rarity does matter.
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Do this and you lost me on this game.
My playstyle and the reason I have a lot of fun forces me to take many (very safe) hits. You do this and I can no longer play sabotages (and I sabotage as a solo player instead of being in a squad).
If this went on, you could compensate-buff survivors to 120% base speed for all I care making them win 99% of games (actually this would also make the game not fun - but I think you can guess my point). I am out of this game
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@Kaffry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335193#Comment_3335193
Billy is my second choice to play as and I would argue against that because he either curves or back revs (Don’t get me wrong curve Billy is difficult)
I wasn’t so much complaining about gen-rushing but rather using it as a comparison to tunneling, but on the survivor side.
Tunneling at 5 gens, sucks, and I wouldn’t even try to justify it.
But tunneling in the terms of having X amount of hooks at the same time as X amount of gens done. Do you think that justifies tunneling?
About tunneling later in game - personally I still don't like it (hence I don't do it even if I loose the game as direct result). But I understand it and don't feel salty about such tunneling. Sometimes it can be justified.
As for billy - they took away some really cool and skillful exploits he could do (like getting on roofs on saloon and MANY more - some of them more practical then saloon example 🙂 ), so maybe you are right now. Still good curving on some impossible obstacles can be so... Amazing yet hard. It still kind of feels he is harder. But again, I can be wrong. I actually don't play either and just watch how both of them are played by very good people.
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At least change wiggle bonus to 1s bonus. Extra wiggle means nothing at all
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Please no. It's already boring if 2 survivors are alive and there is 2+ gens to go. Both survivors sometimes give up on gens and wait for hatch. Now imagine there is just single person hiding because everything else is death... No thx
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335560#Comment_3335560
Thanks for quoting Hens, I wasn't sure what he had said; I trust you on that.
What you're talking about, and what Hens is talking about is something very interesting, and that a lot of haters tend to forget, as if by magic.
Nurse requires MUCH MORE coordination, speed, efficiency, and knowledge of the game from her opponents than other killers.
So effectively, an uncoordinated SoloQ team, whose members don't know how to do anything against her, will have a very, very slim chance of getting through.
Likewise, even a vocal team will have a very hard time against the nurse if the survivors who make up the team are not good against her.
And many survivors just don't want to accept that.
They refuse to accept that the Nurse might ask them to be better against her than against the other killers.
Even if I don't agree with the fact of having deprived the nurse of her recharge and range addons, I have to admit that now, in 6.5, she has become less oppressive than in 6.4.
At least it might be easier for the survivors who were struggling.
Except for those who are only good at crying all the time instead of trying to improve (I'm not talking about you, Gandor) and it's them that I'm thinking of when I talk about showing what you're worth to the nurse.
Generally agree. Just to fill small tidbits. Hens outright said, that if it's god-tier nurse and you are soloQ, then there is nothing you can do - no matter how good your fellow survivors are (and I share the opinion).
But now in 6.5, she feels much better to go against (not counting a bug here and there).
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335379#Comment_3335379
At the highest level of play, survivors are far more powerful than anything ANY (yes even nurse) killer can ever bring. No killer will ever be able to stand a chance against a team like this:
You literally picked one of the best survivor groups in this whole game. And actually this group went against one of the most cracked nurse - and the nurse won, tied and lost to them. Check out Hens's group against Supaalf. Quite entertaining video even if we don't take into account this thread.
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But ONLY on survivor side. Or do you remember any case where devs delayed anything in case of killer?
I am so happy that tunneling got fixed /s
Also so happy that basekit endurance got introduced like in a first week of the game /s
Also so happy that camping got properly handled instead of bandaid fix in reassurance /s but at least we got that reassurance in first week of the game /s
Mori after first hook got instantly fixed as well /s
Also when you mentioned pig - at least her camping single box with iri addon got fixed the next day /s
Should I continue? Or do you acknowledge, that it's not just killers that got their fixes in time?
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@Milo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335555#Comment_3335555
So everyone is playing SWF and every player in SWF must run Potential Energy for it to be good....
You don't see how this perk, while cool in practice, is weak?
maybe you missed something, so I will make a sum-up.
This perk is good if:
1, you are playing in organized comms SWF
2, everyone runs it together with BNP's
3, people expect 3gen-strategy
4, know to not use BNP's to anything but that 3gen
5, killer is playing 3-4 regression perks and is guarding his 3gen
6, killer will not leave his 3gen for anything
7, but at the same time is bad enough, that people are able to come to a generator in a group.
In any other case the perk is just bad. Meaning the perk will not accomplish it's niche when not combined with something else. Or if killer plays "normally", you will only ever get negative value out of it.
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@sanees said:
it's funny how people cry about what a 3 gen is OP and the fact that it can not be defeated while the potential energy even with a simple rush destroys 3 gen, 3 gen strategy means that the killer does not move away from 3 generators, accumulate energy in another place run up and the whole team in a second you will get 80%
after that, run away, let's say the killer has cob and over, you need to spend 40 seconds to return to the safe generator to charge the energy and just destroy this generator with a crowd (in these 40 seconds, the generator regresses by 30%, that is, the generator will have 50% if 1 person is tank in your rush, or distract the killer for a couple of seconds, or you just get the timing right, then you completely fix the generator
and now it was the most direct tactic, if you are a little smarter you can do more,
so yes, potential energy is good for what it was created for, destroy 3 gen tactics
1, can't be done in soloQ (sure there are other perks like this, deli is borderline useless in soloQ too)
2, you presume totally incompetent killer - any killer closely guarding his 3gen will not allow !4! survivors to get to his closely guarded 3gen without any hit and let them work on it - let alone finish it.
3, have you ever seen a game where potential energy did anything reasonably useful? It is niche perk that does nothing useful (quite the other way around) against regular killers that try to win the game by chases (thankfully because camping 3gens is boring for both sides) and is only usable when whole squad comes prepared just for this AND they carry BNP's. This is just way too much expectation from the perk to be actually useful.
4, do you even see anybody bringing the perk now? I have seen the perk once in last month - and I presume even this was basically only because of archives. People tried it out. The perk is trash. It actively helps killer and when it doesn't it's too much risk to be worth it. You can see it in usage rate in nightlight - 0,2% just before the patch (meaning before archives)
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335524#Comment_3335524
Oh you edited it, thank god, that was going to drive me insane. I gotta admit- that wasn't what I was expecting for Pig at all, I wasn't even aware that was a thing. I'm guessing at one point the Ambush counted as a basic attack? Fair enough, that is actually a change that the developers actually chose to make so it's fair game for supporting evidence.
Okay, so now that I know what each thing you're referring to is-- I have to say, almost everything on your list is straight up irrelevant to the argument you're trying to make here. The argument as you lay it out in your first message is that these devs make bad decisions, and you should always expect the worst of them, but... almost all of your examples are cases where the developers were slow to act on a problem. In most of those (not all, but most) they did actually act, and they did actually fix the problem-- they may have taken a while to nerf keys, for example, but they did nerf keys. Same for a lot of the other examples.
The only examples which support the idea that the devs make bad decisions would be the nerfs to Pig and Freddy, and to be fair, the Freddy rework is hard to defend so you may be onto something there. The nerf to Pig I find especially interesting to bring up, because it leaves out a lot of relevant context- like, for example, Pig's most recent change where she was buffed, and in a pretty cool and clever way to boot. Same goes for a lot of stuff on this list; it's cherrypicking to say "remember how long it took them to buff Wraith/Trapper" considering that they did buff Wraith and Trapper, and both of those killers are doing better than they were before.
The only example here I still don't fully understand is why Myers only having one skin is relevant. Balance wise that loops around to them just being slow to change things, but the skin doesn't seem relevant to the core argument here. Maybe I'm missing something though!
exacty this.
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@HardhatKrugerer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335520#Comment_3335520
You´re not recording games, but when you claim something you have to prove it. I can claim that I´m supervisor in Mosad but because evidence it would be just my word. And most of the time its debunked in a moment when these people start to talk about the killer. Its obvious that they touched him only for daily challange. Most fo the time when people claim something its just wish that people will believe them. When I will be making statements about being unbeatable with a killer it would be better to prove it. Its not about recording of games, but about being credible for making statements. If you want to have credibility then you (not specifically you before you start) have to prove it your knowladge about the game are from practicing or just parroting.
If you want footage, go watch alf's streams. There is enough footage in there. If you want more opinions - ask people like Hens. He will have more "balanced" words - he will acknowledge, that it is possible to win against really good nurse - but he will also say you need perfect coordination, perfect plays and have very narrow window for ANY mistakes. They spoke about it on their streams so it is recorded. But I will have to add that both of these opinions are about pre-nerf nurse (so before patch 6.5).
My own experience is even older, because I used to main her (and play her a lot) before patch 5.5 (meaning just before she got killswitched and then reworked/buffed). I refused to play her after, because I got out of loop and started enjoying different killers AND because she felt too easy from that point on (removed stun+fatigue, she can hit before blink finishes and it felt like her autoaim got stronger. Now if you remmeber she also got quite a buff from general killer's buff in patch 6.1 which made her impossible good in my eyes). But even in that time the killer felt super-duper strong once you play her often. Does that mean I won every game or that there were no survivors that could do anything against me? Of course not. However I won majority of my matches (still sometimes with quite a hefty frustration from bad blinks in some areas and from hitting objects I was clearly not aiming at).
But after patch 6.5 - at least in my eyes, the killer is MUCH better then it was. She is still super strong. S-tier without a doubt. But at least there is a game to be played. It's not "let's hope she is baby or we are doomed no matter what" any more.
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TBH I don't understand the whole meaning of his post. Does he argue devs don't do adjustments towards killers? He provided full lists of how devs (in most cases rightfully) nerfed survivors making the chance equal for both sides. But he is somehow complaining about making THE weakest side (soloQ) in whole game getting buffs? I don't even get the point of what he's trying to say