Gandor
Gandor
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3332108#Comment_3332108
but i'm not talking about value over key, i'm talking about value over not having opened the chest in the first place.
yes, some items have a net benefit once you get them from the chest, but you're forgetting that "not opening the chest" is a choice you're allowed to make, and 99.9% of the time, the time saved from choosing to do that is a greater net benefit than whatever you end up getting from the chest. the benefit from opening a chest comes not in the current game, but in the subsequent games where you have the item you looted from the chest - it's an investment across multiple games
the aura reading on keys is underrated. yes, they should buff it because it's not on the same level as some other items, but it's still good. to say it's "trolling" to bring in an item that can help you win every mind game at a jungle gym, give you literal constant vision on one survivor, or help you find/avoid teammates is an extreme exaggeration.
Have you even tried to play with it? You can bring skeleton key with extra duration and blood amber and it will still not really help you. Aura read has delay. You can't do anything while holding them. For these 2 reasons you need to hold it for whole interaction time (baring time you move from one loop to another) or you don't need to use it at all. Even given this any decent killer will not even see the difference.
As said. The item is by far most useless item in game. Not opening the chest if it turns out to be green key is always preferable. Even if you can open the chest without risking anything. The only exception is open-chest challenge (but for this one opening a chest to find it empty would be as valuable). Until the item has any niche usage where it shines (no matter how rare), so long will the item be worse then empty chest by a huge margin.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3332166#Comment_3332166
WoO is taking the place of Iron Will pre-patch. For one Perk slot it allows you to be very strong in chase and still be able to use an exhaustion perk.
If we added a "pallet exhaustion" system where you only get 2 pallets that you can throw instantly before being hooked then WoO would see almost no use. Am I suggesting we add pallet exhaustion? No.
Either way you look at it - Windows allows a survivor to be able to spam pallets in an unhealthy way.
such an exhaustion would be about as stupid as killer's hit exhaustion.
Like this killer already had hit within last 30s so let's normalize and make him freeze for 10s after hit to normalize chases. Just plain stupid. It's bad enough we still have bloodlust. No need to "normalize" skilled interaction vs "I screwed up but want to win anyway" even more.
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@littlepaw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3332128#Comment_3332128
I ignored the changes to Shadowstep and Dark Theory because they're really not as relevant to CoH as you think they are tbf.
Why use 2 perks just to hide the aura and boon noise when you can just bring a good medkit, or #########, like you suggested, bringing Distortion instead which isn't attached to a boon, and blocks aura reading outside of the boon radius as well rather than just only in the boon radius? Sure, some people might do double or triple boon including CoH thinking they're geniuses, but they're wasting efficiency just for some thing and dedicating 3/4 of their build just for boons. The only reason gigaboon exists in this day and age is because Shattered Hope is almost never used and isn't basekit. Most people don't want a nearly full boon build with Shattered Hope basekit lol, even if they can hide it all they can.
Plus, I'm going to be honest, Shadowstep's buff you suggest won't change Shadowstep very much. Shattered Hope being basekit humbles Shadowstep's buff enough imo.
Also, imagine indoor maps with Shadowstep (hidden scratches) and now your new buffed Dark Theory (no chime and lower grunts of pain) sounds miserable, honestly. You don't even need CoH with that to make it an awful experience, imagine the DH/Sprint Burst/#########, even Lithe with the muted fast vaults PLUS Dark Theory/Shadowstep rats with a free perk slot of their choice and giga medkits, lol. Lucky Break isn't super off the table with that build because of no bloodstains. Honestly makes me half grateful for CoH knowing in its state right now that it's less of a headache than that'd be. As much as Dark Theory needs a buff with how uncommon "Dark Theory value" is, I think I'd legit rather it be weak than start up THOSE kinds of builds, speaking from both sides of the coin here.
exactly this.
@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3332142#Comment_3332142
My main build are boons. If you have minimum knowledge of the game you can find totems easily.
With my rework to Dark Theory it would be harder for the killer to locate the boon, because it would be completely silent. Keep in mind killers have low FOV.
Boon spamming is not fun for either side. It is frustrating for the killer and can be a waste of time for the survivor team.
By the way, I am not against lowering the bless time to compensate.
The only reason I am using CoH is nerf to self care. If I had reliable way to heal a lot of times that takes ~30s I would already never touch circle of healing. Even if you know all the totem spawns, it will still take you minutes to fully heal somes and I can give you easy example from my own game. Killer tunnels if he sees any possibility - you are deadhook and injured, but not in chase (not a rare sight, you were able to hide after unhook somehow and you HAVE TO heal in this case - otherwise you are throwing the game for easy 3v1). The map is grim pantry, killer is around shack chasing someone (so 2 rocks with "guaranteed" totems are off limits for you). There's a totem in the middle of the map - in the open just before main (or say 1 totem was cleansed/destroyed in some way). Now count me number of seconds it will take you to fully heal - from finding the totem to blessing it to actually healing to full. You need to be extremely lucky for it to be less then a minute, but it will probably take you more then 2 minutes. This is not even worst case scenario - there are worse maps for this and worse situations. Meaning CoH is so widely inconsistent, that the only reason I am still using it is that everything else is so damn much worse.
Also I hardly ever see any boon outside of CoH and there's a reason for it. Like shadowstep can have good enough value in a few maps (RPD, lery's), but most of the time it just does too little (and I don't make specific builds for specific maps - like sure, if we are talking about abusing things, then 4x such a boon 1x rainbow map with distance and showing totems to everyone + quick&quiet/overcome/etc build could be nasty thing). Exponential has awesome value if it somehow works, but it is actually quite rare for killer to slug - making UB just better thing because you don't have those risks (you will not need 2x UB anyway in vast majority of games, but you will be downed outside of boon or it will be snuffed most of the time). Dark theory is not even worth to talk about at current state.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3332113#Comment_3332113
It seems you want to create dramas. I don’t care about medkits. My suggestion is a buff to boons overall, especially when you pair different boons together, at the cost of giving shattered hope basekit to killers.
This would make boons more chase oriented with the new quick and quiet buff to shadowstep and soft iron will + stealth to dark theory. Also the buff to exponential would help soloQ.
If you want to use medkits instead of this, good for you.
Shattered hope basekit is such a nerf to a boon as would be adding 20s/kick animation to gen-kicking perks. Your solution would outright kill the perks. Especially CoH with that additional nerf. It would get about as much usage as renewal. Thresh tier. That's why I created such "drama". And you would 100% know it if you used the perk enough. It sometimes take without kidding minutes (or never depending how much totems are used) to heal with the perk.
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This suggestion exactly would mean medkit or heal by teammate. So let's nerf medkits. Meaning survivors will be injured all the time. Meaning everybody bring DH. Oh DH usage suddenly went over 70% usage again - the perk is clearly OP. Nerf it. Survivors are going down left and right and kill rate suddenly went to 80%. Survivors why are you complaining? Git gud. Just devs fix those queue times, because I have to wait 30 minutes for a game now.
Give it a break with CoH threads. The perk got nerfed twice already. There are many games that are won solely for the reason of survivors trying to heal and use their perk instead of doing gens - because the perk makes healing very slow now. You already succeeded in making self care without any doubt killer perk now. You complain about medkits and CoH all the time making sure survivors are unable to heal.
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@Marik1987 said:
Piggy doesnt need buffs without nerfs on the other side.
I love playing Piggy, her RBTs are more consistent with the last buff they received.
4 RBTs = 12 searches in total, max. 4 Searches out of 5 Boxes possible.
This is the best slowdown besides Cenobites Chain Hunt in the game.
Her Ambush however sucks.
Here is my idea:
- Nerf: RBTs end up in 10 searches in total, not 12.
- Buff: Increase her crouching speed to 4,0m/s / 100% without addon. Johns Medical File maybe needs adjusted.
- Buff: Make Combat Straps Basekit
- Buff: The Ambush can break Pallets
Sounds much more reasonable. I would actually go for this suggestion. OP's suggestion is way too much but this one would actually make pig more in line with other stronger killers
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330885#Comment_3330885
If you don't escape the trial then it wouldn't matter what item you find, because you still don't get to keep it. Unless you brought a white ward, in which case your hypothetical is again redundant.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330891#Comment_3330891
as fun as it is to laugh at your horribly misdirected and over-the-top ridiculousness, i do implore you to carefully read all of the things i have to say, and to think about all of the things i am saying, because it currently appears you are only writing responses to select parts of my post.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/F6T8W1F3YD8D/image-2023-01-29-155332669.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/N9JN2CWL4DL5/image.png
feel free to judge for yourself which i play more of (most of those killer p3's are from the switch over to the new prestige system and were P1 at that time, most of the p1's were just outside of the prestige range at that time, i did not prestige any survivors in order to preserve the multitude of anniversary items I had on them)
as far as the no net value in that game, you're right. Correct. Bingo. Hole in one, aced the test, passed with flying colors. However, if you're judging things by "how useful are they in the round I am currently playing" then you cannot use the Bloodweb as an example, because as I have already said, you can't access the bloodweb and get anything during your current game, so by the standard you yourself laid out, the bloodweb is as useless as a green key in a chest. if we're admitting that we use things from previous games in next games (such as the bloodpoints earned from one match to buy items for another match) then certainly you can admit that "i don't get value in the round i earn it, therefore it shouldn't exist" is a poorly thought out and childishly shortsighted chain of logic.
if you're talking about time wasted, let me give you a little perspective - a chest takes 10 seconds to open, and the item takes 1 second to pick up for a total of 11 seconds. Finding a commodious toolbox, the fastest repair box, saves you 10.7 seconds on a generator, or 13.3 seconds if you happen to be running Streetwise. Even in the best case scenario, you need to dedicate an extra perk slot, get ridiculously lucky, and notice a chest that's literally less than 2 seconds out of the way to a gen in order to just barely break even on your time investment. If I was a tryhard sweaty killer main I would absolutely want the number of boxes out there increased and I'd want green keys removed from chests so survivors like you would waste more time trying to find "useful" items that would actually waste your time.
So long as it's the worst item in game (it is, green map with addons is by far better then even green key with blood ember + something) - it's worse then finding empty chest (after the rework you proposed, this would not be true). Even taking into account your argument of "you can use it next game". No you "can't use it next game" if you don't want to troll. As we are talking about THE worst item in the game, you would do better for your team if you brought literally anything else but green key.
As for your toolbox example - still not true. Even brown toolbox has some limited value over key (not a negative value as green key. It has very situational, but positive value). The reason being, a, that opening a chest is generally safer then doing gen b, you can't sabotage hook without toolbox (or saboteur perk) - so even brown toolbox will in some cases provide you with positive value. Green key is exclusively negative value.
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Showing it before the match would result in lobby shopping which is a bad thing.
Showing it after the match would be actually reasonable. You lost not because it's map XYZ, or because addon/item X was in game. You played against someone that has 30% higher MMR and you just stood no chance - the only thing you can complain about is lack of players so that matchmaking could not give you better match.
At the very least if devs don't want to deal with complains how matchmaking matches then against people with vastly different values (but it happens regardless to some degree), I see no reason to at minimum show us our own MMR value. As was said for some math people it would be very nice to know which killer is where and how I compare my killers to my survivors. There should be no reason not to show it AFAIK
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330897#Comment_3330897
I suppose we can agree to disagree then.-I see pain res being used much less now and DH still being used the same as before. I can argue that DH is maybe used a 5% less than before, but not more.
Then we indeed have to agree to disagree. I play with perk saboteur. Every 3rd game I get great value from it, because people bring scourge hooks (and they work same as boons - there's just one that is being universally used by everyone every time). But to not speak only with anecdotal experience - according to nightlight (best source we have available even if it's far from perfect) it's being used in 25% of games. Before the patch it was around 15-17%. For deadhard it was around 42% before 6.1 and now it's 31%.
So sure it's still being used a lot, but a lot less then before.
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@Veroles said:
At least brand new part could be fully removed in my opinion.
It's a good idea. But it goes both ways. For each squad with BNP and styptics/syringes, there's a spirit with mother-daughter ring+ Yakuyoke amulet, blight with C33+alch ring, meyers with tombstone piece+quick stalking, etc. The game should probably rebalance itself to lower the strength of strongest vs weakest things killer&survivor can bring. Otherwise there will be still this same experience (for both sides)
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@Jylppy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330886#Comment_3330886
No one said that. Playing killer or playing survivor should not be easy on playing either side. Yes in that situation Pig can get a guaranteed kill but that is just bad luck for the survivor who has the trap. Games and life are unfair sometimes and even so that is just a one kill. What it tells you that killer can barely get one kill by this method? That she is super weak and this is does not count as a win for killer. Or that the RBTs are super OP.
And also what I understand you are trying to say that Bubba should not be able to use his chainsaw because he can this way guaranteed hook kill? Or that Ghost Face should not be able to stalk after the last gen is done because he can guaranteed one hook kill because he has every other survivor stalked 99%?
After the gens are popped, RBTs are the only way Pig can make a comeback for herself and that should not be taken away because someone didn't want to die this game.
Anyways big thank you for commenting on this discussion. I will remain silent for now on.
1, Bubba should be adjusted, but if it's not basement and you are actually very good survivor, then there are some very limited countermeasures. Ghostface can be played around "easily" so he's no issue. This is not true for pig
2, the fact that you can guarantee this at the beginning of the game for 1K is one thing. But who said you can't do that during match after you get your regular kills? Also - be it as it may, buffing this strat makes even less sense. Lethality of traps should not be touched. Tunnel potential should also not be touched. However if you really want to buff traps somehow, then slowdown potential could be buffed somehow (say add 1 more box + requirement to solve one additional box, but add active trap time correspondingly = +25% of time) - but again ideally this buff would come at the same time as some nerf to the tactics (say you can exit also via gate with active trap if you are last survivor in match).
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330770#Comment_3330770
6 seconds is 24% free repair percentage
that's under ideal conditions. It's the same as saying eruption stops the gen progress by 120,75s on each trigger...
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329763#Comment_3329763
I dont know if that would be enough. Right now, even if the survivor uses Dead Hard and then throws the pallet, you have a brief moment where you can actually hit him, making him even waste the pallet.
To be trully balanced on that moment, DH should be just deactivated upon reaching a pallet (and activated again when you leave it). You already have your tool for extending the chase right here, where you can play the minigame and lose or win. If you win the minigame, you extend the chase by using the pallet correctly. If the killer wins. he hits you.
Even if people dont want to admit, the "meta swap" that BHVR wanted to do with that mid chapter actually worked well for killers but didnt work for survivors. Killers were mostly Ruin + Undying. Ruin got giga nerfed and now it's never seen, and most of the time it was the best perk to combine with Undying because it was having a great effect since the game started. Now that Ruin got nerfed, Undying is not being used as much as before.
But survivors were mostly Dead Hard + Decisive Strike. DS got also greatly nerfed and now is not being seen that much, but even with the DH change, DH is still being used on 90% of survivors, sometimes even seeing 4 Dead Hards on the game.
So at the end of the day, the new killer meta can be more or less opressing than the one before with Eruption, but at least the meta changed from "passive regress" to "kick gens", and it's still a change. But survivors keep using Dead Hard on almost every game so the meta swap for them was a failure.
Pain res before 6.1 was used a lot and after it it's being used even more. DH was used a lot and after the patch it's being used much less (but still a lot). Ruin and DS were both nerfed to oblivion and are no longer being played that much. Do not cherry-pick. Take full meta on both sides
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329464#Comment_3329464
i already did, so feel free to reread the thread and familiarize yourself with what i said
i am begging on my hands and knees for you to obtain the patience to wait the ten minutes between finding the key in one game and equipping aura reading addons in the next game. you're already playing a game where the most important core mechanic is waiting for a progress bar to fill, certainly you can wait for the next game to come around. the BP you obtain throughout the game are also not usable until after the game finishes; do you think we should remove BP? because I don't
the ultimate irony of this is that I do think that green keys should be reworked, because right now the aura reading provided by keys in general is almost always not powerful enough to justify bringing them. it's just that "i can't use it the second i get it" isn't a valid reason for keys to be removed from the game in general or chests specifically
Ah. So I should only take advantage outside of that game. So no. There's NOT A SINGLE ADVANTAGE that item will give me in that game. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Not found. Nonexistent. But there's a real negative the item will give me in that case (namely time spend finding it in chest, possibly picking it up and having one less chest and not getting anything useful)
And you still say it's "ok" to have it in a chest. Are you perhaps exclusively killer main?
Also next game it will give me also 0 advantage, because the item is THE WORST item I could use in the game. So I am bound to equip ANYTHING else but this item. Even when taking addons - even green map on it's own will give you arguably more value. And I also have another surprise for you - bloodweb exists - so I will 100% have some item - and any item giving more advantage then this one - I will not take green key in my next game (and I can't take key from last game + my item I get from bloodweb). So even in this case green key is 100% waste
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@Jylppy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330837#Comment_3330837
This I can not agree. Worst ways to think changes is to think how it would change tunneling in specific killer. No killer need any ability to tunnel. Pig doesn't need to use RBTs to tunnel and why would she? Whole SAW chapter is based on RBTs because it is just a iconic trap in the movies so we need a killer that is surrounded by that. We don't need only crouching killer that can do ambushes. And it is clear that if someone wants to tunnel in the game, the reason is not the buff I propose. She is already so weak that most of the time this killer already needs to tunnel if the killer wants to win. Atleast in the higher mmr. It is not a choice if you are forced to do so.
If we nerf the traps even more, there is no use for them anymore in the game. They are just wasting your own time if they don't achieve you anything. It would not be fun for anyone because I already feel that playing against Pig is already too plain. Boring match. There is no challenge unless the killer is like a god or something.
The problem I see with the traps are the fact that they are so easy to take off and waste little of survivors time. There really is no slowdown to survivors at least too signifianct that there should be. Second problem is that if you play couple of games against the Pig and try to learn how her ability works, you can easily outplay her. Yes of course traps can be inevitable death sometimes but it is veeerryyyyy rare. Headpop Pig doesn't exist anymore. And now when there is so much information given to the survivors and they gained signifianct buff to solo q, it is impossible to defend traps and gens at the same time. You will lose either way because usually the traps only lose survivors time around 50-70 seconds and sometimes even less. During this time with certain perks you may manage to get a single hook when survivors remove their trap and they are back on the gens. And I really can't call it a slowdown because 1-2 gens have already popped at the same time when this is happening because there is still 1-2 survivors in the map doing gens. There just is not enough time given by the traps.
And to be clear, I didn't mean the traps should activate when you are on the ground at dying state or on the hook. It should be activated when you are for the first time able to search jigsaw boxes. On the unhook or pickup by survivor.
But with your change in mind I would be happy to see that RBTs stay the same they are right now and buff the ambush attacks and crouching. No need to nerf already such a low tier killer. Buffs are meant to give killer more tools for victory and more tactics.
Btw I have never understood why people are so against that Pig could have a secondary ability to kill. I mean the RBTs. I don't understand this. It was marketed this way and it would fit the movies.
If you catch single survivor before last gen pops and decides to tunnel him out from the game. There's nothing anybody in the world can do to stop you if you play pig. The only chance for that survivor is that he finds hatch, or that the killer will be so bad, that he will somehow loose him. In a game designed so that killer should down survivor in reasonable time.
But I guess now you will write it's that survivor's fault, because he was not able to have 5 gen chase /s
(also a note - killer does not even need to have that one down - he can use addon and use lethal pursuer to guarantee at least one kill)
So sure. Let's take this design even further and make it even more obnoxious. I say let's add a button to the killer that when pushed, all 4 survivors will be automatically hooked. That should be fair /s
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330588#Comment_3330588
Old pop goes to weasel motivated killers to leave hook and to chase another survivor. Old ds also made tunneling more rare as most killers respected it and it actually made tunneling less effient but now as those are gone what is reason not to tunnel and not to make the optimal play... Well you can win other way which would be more fun for everyone but it's just harder. I do try to win hard way usually getting 6-8 hooks before finishing someone off but when it backfires and 3-4 people escape next game im going to do the optimal play. What I find good strat is to target one survivor but chase and hook others too if you can. But then eliminate targeted survivor when you have 4-5 hooks overall. It's maybe bit less effient than tunneling but not by much and there are actually less risks. But still with that strat you will take one survivor out pretty early too.
I agree with you fully. It's not on players to handicap themselves and play suboptimally just so that the game is fun for the other side. You never wrote any contract that your purpose in life is to make the other side have more fun.
But from the game's perspective overall (which is job of the game developers) the game should employ as much fun things as possible and dissuade unfun aspects as much as possible - so the game has as many players as possible. For this reason as a player - it's fine if you camp or tunnel. But devs should actually make the tactics not so appealing (not meta), but you as a killer should still be able to win the game (as it's PVP you should have an equal chance to win/loose the game as the other side so that both sides would enjoy the game). So when talking about feedback/suggestions, I will be always against camp/tunnel (it's not fun for either side - like killers do it because it brings wins and wins are fun, but camping and tunneling itself is not really fun) - at least to a degree when it's best thing you can do in game (meaning it makes no sense that being AFK near hook wins you the game).
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/362667/killer-perks-need-to-be-nerfed
lol clearly has never played killer ever
Clearly you are totally entitled and you actually never played anything but killer. From all the posts in this forum it's pretty clear how salty you are.
OP is obviously new to the game considering things he is complaining about. At the beginning of the game, killers are indeed OP and there's very little survivors can do (strictly speaking of this beginner MMR). Camping hook comes naturally. Knowing how to rescue against that (or not being afraid to even come close to killer) is something that does not come naturally. Being efficient on a gen and getting at least good skill checks is also not easy for brand new players. The result is, that any killer but nurse (because of base speed) is OP against such survivors. A comment that would actually be helpful (that's the reason why you are in this forum right?) would actually point to other ways how to heal - self care and boons being prime examples, inner healing and pharmacy being surrogate once or telling the person to take aura perk (like bond) would give something to the discussion. Instead you decided to be snarky. Not cool at all
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So make her tunneling ability much better. No thank you. This is one of the worst ways you can buff the killer.
RBT's actually need slight nerf considering interruption behavior/forcing the trap to pop and instead her ambush/sneak ability should get a buff (say make her crouch movement significantly quicker - say 100% instead of current 90% + ambush lasting 1-2s longer).
The idea behind RBT should be to slow down the game without any possibility to ignore it. It should not work as going behind a person I downed (not even hooked) once means he gets hatch or he is 100% dead.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330770#Comment_3330770
If you know eruption is a problem and irrelevant to this discussion, why even mention it? It's obviously problematic and needs changing. There's no need to compound unpleasant things in the game just because there are already unpleasant things.
I did? Maybe read what OP said about reasoning of 6s.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329259#Comment_3329259
Neither are all killers who use Eruption experts, a perk that is barely used as-is and yet the forum is full of whiny ass survivors crying about non-existing problems.
BARELY USED?!?!?!?!?! Cmon guy. You can't be serious. It's META PERK. One of most used killer perks in the game. If eruption (perk behind paywall) is not used, then there are 0 players playing DH.
Also nobody uses according to nightligh (again perk behind paywall) has usage of meager "Overall Usage Rate (Last 14 days):21.01%" . This stats talks about your credibility.
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Imagine not being able to control it for 25s :D
Anyway - argument that eruption already does this is bad argument. Eruption is overtuned. That's also why it's going to be changed. And while I agree that 6s of blast mine would still probably don't do enough to be meta perk, there's still a good reason not to buff it. The sheer amount of annoyance people will get from it means, that even current 4s feels like eternity (even if from game's perspective the perk is pretty meh).
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329221#Comment_3329221
swf = bully squad because all that ever happens is gen rushing and it is extremely boring
Killer = camping tunneling slugging nolifer. Because all killers can do is camp and tunnel and try to make the game as much not a fun as possible.
See? Both sides can do that. Is that productive? Not a bit. Does it make any sense? No it doesn't.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329794#Comment_3329794
But that's the thing... with base regression being so low that means that a lot of players feel the need to bring 3-4 Gen regression perks
But there's a way to work around it... but that would mean a re-coding the game
What recoding? All you need to do is change constants. Say base regression being 0,5c/s instead of 0,25c/s but all regression perks being cut in half in effect (this is just gross estimate, some more serious math/tryouts would be needed to get actually good numbers)
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329818#Comment_3329818
Did you not notice when I said : god pallets?
-"Why does midwitch with it's 24 pallets have most killrate of all maps"
The map with 25 pallets is The Game. Mid is killer sided because the survivors have to react to upper/lower floor transitions. The killer can pretty easily push people and force them to go the long way. The best move on this map is to shift+w.
It's a small map so when you chase people you often run by people working on generators - this is what makes a small map fair.
Where? I see you mention throwing 6-8 pallets per chase. There's no map in dbd with 6-8 god pallets. I can't remember one with 3 god pallets (but sure correct me if I am wrong). Anyway WoO will not make you suddenly invincible. You can't just predrop all pallets and be universally safe. Against decent killer this is never a possibility. Even if some killers make it easier, there's no killer that just autoloose if survivor predrops. None
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330419#Comment_3330419
I think you need to follow your own advice.
Killer is only better when you are bad at the game. When you have ~1000 hours the game becomes a joke as survivor. If everyone plays efficiently you can win almost every game. That does not happen every game because people love to meme around with locker head on builds or they might be "throwing" the game to finish tomes.
There are no survivor mains who are saying Killer>Survivor if we momentarily exclude Nurse and Blight. Yes those two killers are broken compared to everything else. But so is SWF and all three of those elements need to be nerfed tremendously.
Interesting.
I hear large killer main streamers saying that survivors were nerfed too much and it's no longer challenge. I hear people saying soloQ is impossible. I hear SWF vs killer are rather close together now (even if SWF is supposed to be a little stronger). I see no meme-ing around in higher elo games (not counting situations where the game is basically over or someone screws up horribly - but this memes are as common for survivor as for killer). Also 5% best players according to last stats still end up in 61% murder rate.
So I have no idea what you are talking about. It must be just personal experience.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329800#Comment_3329800
Well maybe it's intended I feel game balance is directed towards tunneling I use that tactics now more than before I go kick gen with eruption and return to hook tunnel unhooked injured survivor that just best way to get value from it. It's not worth to go after healthy survivor unless I get hit on someone before kicking that gen. Only my morale is what stopping me from tunneling most games...
I agree with you it's the most optimal way and way to win most.
But that is bad design. Tunneling is one of things that make people like the game less (together with camping and guarding 3gens and never commiting to chase). Balancing the game around cheap/unfun tactics is fundamentally wrong. It's the direct equivalent of bully squads being most optimal tactics to win the game.
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If I could have my preference, then beta skillchecks first (because 1s for sabo person is something), then old and the very worst one is our current forced. Wiggling throwing does not matter to even average killer (you can easily catch rhythm and cancel it out completely). Not getting to look at the background does matter.
I get worst possible option I could have. I quite frankly hate current wiggle system
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@GensByDaylight said:
Survivors can set up totems an infinite amount of times, and theres 4 survivors.
The killer gets 1 hex totem per perk, once it is cleansed, they have an empty perk slot.
The time that it takes the killer to run over to the boon and kick it is enough for the survivors to get value out of it.
The majority of hex perks are trash, while 1/2 of the boon perks are viable against any killer.
Complain about eruption or Nurse, hex perks are fine, and probably underpowered compared to CoH.
while I generally fully agree, most killers go with the opposite arguments and outright ignore what OP said. Given this there's so many nerf boon threads. Which is kind of sad, because if we don't count some specific killers (hit & run wraith/onryo, twins, mirror meyers), then boons are about just as likely to help killer as they are to help survivor (knowing the spot and downing multiple people on same spot, survivors not "genrushing", being not healed for extended time because can't get to boon, ...)
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329793#Comment_3329793
-"the only pallets in the game are god pallets and that survivors can somehow chain them together."
If you don't feel that way when you play an M1 killer it's because you're playing baby survivors. There's a CMWinter video where he gets comp dropped at every pallet on coal tower and gets absolutely stomped. He made no mistakes - the survivors just "outplayed him". If I felt like taking the effort I would find it for you.
-"And this all does not even mention that most killers have some kind of ability to actually outplay survivor on most pallets"
Should we count?
Trapper*, Wraith, Billy, MM, Doc, Freddy, Pig, Clown, Plague*, Spirit, GF, Oni*, Pinhead, Ring.
None of these killers have a method to deal with a god pallet. Ok well you just get away free. gg. Note there are exceptions marked with power usage. By my count that's 14/30 killers that cant do anything.
Most of the pallets in the game have actually become god pallets. This was most definitely not the case back in 2016 as most of the pallets were actually quite weak - but super plentiful (there was a chance one map could literally have 24).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329801#Comment_3329801
Exactly!
Wraith can cloak/uncloak, Billy has lo-pro (yes addon) and some really good billy's (yes the killer is IMO the hardest one) can actually outplay most of pallets without breaking them by "turning them", doc can deny pallet throw altogether - he just needs correct timing, clown can use both bottle types to disregard more then half of all pallets, plague has no problem when in power, spirit - you must be joking - she is prime example of "only god pallet will save you", oni - good one can eat pallets quickly enough (meaning surv will probably not get to next one and if he does, then the next one will just not be there) so that it doesn't matter to him when in power, pinhead when hitting his chain can mindgame very easily about half of all pallets if not more. Onryo especially with newspaper can manifest/demanifest for invisibility giving too short reaction time to survivor on most unsafe pallets (but sure safe pallets are problem for her) usually resulting in a hit (but I have to give it to you, that as you can see there are some killers that are vulnerable to pallets - they make it up with something else usually)
That's your list of killers that "can't counter pallets". There are also other killers that can eat them like candy (say bubba/nemesis) or outright ignore them (nurse) or use them as trap (pyramidhead, trapper & hag to some degree).
In conclusion - if there were so many pallets that WoO would just win the game for you because as survivor you are invulnerable once you predrop pallet, then why do we have more then 50% kill rate? Why is it actually around 60%? Why does midwitch with it's 24 pallets have most killrate of all maps and say fracture cowshed with it's 14 pallets (so 10 less) is considered survivor sided? Maybe there's something wrong with your premise after all
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@LooeDbD said:
Wesker needs nothing changed, just some hitbox fixes
Disagree there. Like wesker is pretty balanced and I think there are many more killers that need adjustments before him (blight's addons being one of those examples), but if I really had to pick 1 thing that needs to be fixed about wesker, then I would say it's his tunnel potential.
As a survivor (especially if wesker takes infection addons) once hooked, it's too easy to proxy camp, hit right after unhook (to proc more infection) and then just chase with guarantee of not a very long chase - because infection will do it's work. Even disregarding this - once somebody is unhooked and infected, he will need to go for an injection very quickly. And once he uses it, there's another beacon telling the killer "Tunnel me". I think this is not a good design. Everything else about him (even those hits which are sometimes really funky - for both sides - like as wesker I hate it how you bounce away from pallet/window just because someone was using it some time before and for survivor how he can sometimes pull you back from the other side of window - they are less of a problem then this).
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@RaSavage42 said:
But then if Base Gen regression was increased... then the 4 Gen slowdown builds wouldn't be a thing
But then having one perk that does equal base progression would be a thing... Call Of Brine which only lasts for 60 seconds (but then again they could lower it to 30 seconds)
A 3 Gen doesn't happen in every match... you want to lower the Camping and Tunneling... then give us better base Gen regression
I brought it up in another thread that I made... People want to complain and suggest things that are the symptoms of the real issue
I already wrote it. Taking 3-4 regression perk should not be a (meta) thing. The game should be rebalanced so, that you are effectively buffed when taking 0-1 regression perk, don't see any change when taking 1-2 regressions and see quite a nerf (compared to current state) when taking 3-4 regression perks. To get this result all you need to do is buff base regression and nerf regression perks.
Being able to guard 3 gens the whole game should never (under no RNG or map) be a good possibility/choise. It should not be a choise even against 3 survivors (because if you leave it like this, then super-focused tunnel 1 out into guarding loose 3gen would be a thing)
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I am shocked from this thread. There's a strong premise in it, that the only pallets in the game are god pallets and that survivors can somehow chain them together.
From my experience predropping pallets means I will extend that one chase longer, but I am guaranteed to kill my whole team a minute after. You just can't effort to not use all the pallets and just predrop. There's way too little pallets for this (maybe outside the game - but given this meta, even the game does not have enough pallets for it).
And this all does not even mention that most killers have some kind of ability to actually outplay survivor on most pallets. Like #########? Do you really believe that knowing about pallets (especially filler pallets where you have fence-pallet-car/rock/tree - as is the case for most of them) means you are just screwed and you HAVE TO break it to give survivor time to get to next pallet? If so then I am afraid it's not survivors who are being carried...
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Yea that doesn’t look right. It should be 2 seconds for one flashlight, faster if there’s more than one. Unless maybe his teammate’s aim was off but it didn’t really look like it.
On a related note, the SFX from the Wraith’s POV when he’s in the middle of getting lightburned is completely missing.
According to wiki ( https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Lightburn ) it should take 1.5s and not 2s. Like it's true there isn't anything written that multiple flashlights shorten the time, but it doesn't say otherwise and it looks like more flashlight were intended behavior - same as it's possible to blind/flash save quicker with multiple flashlights.
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@ratcoffee said:
can you please explain to me how "an item you can use to enable aura reading" gives you "nothing at all"
i understand the frustration of not finding a purple medkit or a green toolbox and not being able to use it immediately, right that second, but that's still not "nothing at all"
Ok. Tell me any single (intended) use of a green key when you find it in locker. And just to not be smart ass, you are not allowed to equip ace in the hole.
Now tell me ANY situation on ANY map where you get ANY - even marginal benefit from the item in that game. Finding green key in a chest is much worse then finding empty chest - at least in case of empty chest you don't waste time opening it. Any other item provides at least some value - that's true also for brown toolbox or green map. But not green key. Devs should 100% remove the item from game or change it
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@KblokoBR said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328686#Comment_3328686
Cool you want a situational killer in a situational game where they let form a 3 gen backup your argument to "nah, regression is fine"
situational? What prevents you to take this build, get the offering and doing that EVERY.SINGLE.GAME from first second of the game? Just say you can have those 4 gens, because I can hold indefinitely these 3. Done. Because you indeed can hold it. Especially if devs would listen to what you ask of them to do.
Again. Regression is ALREADY NOT fine. It's over tuned. And I don't mean base regression. I mean 4-stacked regression perks having eruption, call of brine and overcharge (and say POP - the only perk that is underwhelming in such a build).
And if you say it's just problem of dead dawg - then you are wrong again. There are more maps you can do this in. RPD's main is easiest example (but sure this one depends on RNG a little). Haddonfield always has such a 3gen, but the distance is large enough that in the map would become impossible only if devs made it your way. Wrecker's yard is yet another one, but this would be highly dependent on map RNG (there's no fixed 3gen there - you need luck to make it). And there's always some change it will happen in any other small map like the game or midwitch.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328686#Comment_3328686
I already answered to that video in another comment. Final conclusion: Survivor's fault and lack of coordination. Even the survivor streamer said it explicitly in one moment of the video (something like "they left him 3 gens").
Watch it again, and observe the amount of times the last gen could have being done but doesn't because the streamer is alone repairing it. If I find the comment I did in the day where I get in more detail I would post it.
At some point Hens stopped being effective and started memeing with them. Hand shaking and all that. This is current dbd. What stopps you from selecting your 3gen in first 3s of the match and doing what Hens did?
Now suppose devs buffed regression exactly as you ask of them. Why as a survivor should I even bother with the game? There's no way I can finish gens. I can't escape without doing them. So why?
In conclusion - there's already too much regression in the game as is (I am not talking about basekit - in fact I would buff basekit regression and nerf all regression perks) and killers can very much replicate what Hens did
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@Lord_Xylum said:
This is my idea for the Finisher Mori:
What if, once *anyone* has been hooked twice, a "Sacrificial Seal" spawns near to the Killer (within reasonable range), and the Killer must pick up and bring said Survivor to this designated spot, in order to Mori.
This way, all 4 Survivors can potentially be Mori'd, and yet they can still potentially be saved by other Survivors.
Functionally, it's exactly the same as bringing a Survivor to a hook, except you bring them to a specific spot to perform the Mori. In this time, Survivors have their usual fair chances to get a blind/pallet save, since the downed one must be picked up and carried.
Once the Mori is over, the Sacrificial Seal on the ground can de-spawn, until another Survivor can be Mori'd in the area, or elsewhere.
So it's like regular hooking, but without possibility to sabo play. Killer does not even need offering now. No thank you
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@feechima said:
So having a gen on a different level wasn't close enough, let's make them meters apart and count on the kindness of players to actually not take advantage of something so obvious. 😀
I don't get the decision behind update too. Main had 2 very close gens together, so why not cut that distance in half? Everything ok in dev team? Did you not notice the map generally already preffered killers?
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@YOURFRIEND said:
I actually agree with this. Boil over cost me two hooks on the swamp map last night. I imagine it works the same on any map with somewhat wonky collision. I play on PC and the 100% boil over never gave me any problems, oddly enough.
I am sincirely shocked to hear it.
Without any irony I love it when survs bring the perk against me (because they could have brought real perk instead). In all the time I can remember, BO cost me exactly 1 hook and that one was still more because of hook sabotage and less about actually hitting into hook from slightly wrong side at very last moment
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@KblokoBR said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328003#Comment_3328003
Thats the question, the game should not support survivors whem they make a mistake. Letting form a 3 gen is a survivor side mistake, and they have to take the consequences, as well as a killer that camps take the consequence of loosing all gens, this should be balanced around too?
https://youtu.be/Vv3I9hHLblE@KblokoBR said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328258#Comment_3328258
YOU PREVENT IT NOT MAKING A 3 GEN
And you want this to be even easier and possible on every killer.
@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328322#Comment_3328322
survivors have potential energy that was created to resist 3 generators, and given that the progression of the generator is stronger than the regression, you can run up to build energy and run back, so sooner or later your progression will fix the generator, or the killer will run after you, which allow other survivors to repair the remaining 2 generators
+ you also have a hidden alliance that does not allow killer to kick the generator
if you see gen 3 camp so often, then start using perks that counter it
@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328322#Comment_3328322
What he said is not avoiding the problem, is the truth. If you don't do alternate gens or detect that the killer is defending 3 gens and break them instead of letting him get an strong setup is on you. Again, if you are SoloQ equip PT with Situational Awareness and a toolbox and you would get more chances to get more people in the gen and do it so fast by the time the killer is going to hook someone the gen would be already done.
In fact, a visual example for you and our friend @bunnyfengenthusiast :
"Survivors just gifted a 3 man injure" to the killer, eh?
Applies to you too
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328500#Comment_3328500
My bad, it was about Campbell's Last Breath, I thought it was about Jenner's Last Breath.
Indeed, from a purely technical point of view, Campbell can cover 40m, but its accuracy is not optimal.
It's abit harder, but technically the accuracy is almost the same if you are not in upper level (above basement, playing the game or midwitch on upper level, main in temple of purgation, etc).
Also nurse can technically travel 52m in one burst - you can also use 3 blinks addon for additional 12m distance.
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I have to actually agree with @Batusalen which doesn't happen that often.
Maybe one advice to be also constructive. Play your soloQ matches during "prime time" when a lot of people are playing. At this time matchmaking is much better and teammates are also closer to your skill (no matter what it is). But you will get better killers (or scumier) too
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@FMG15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328169#Comment_3328169
I did. And they are fundamentaly broken. But atleast they don't remove the directional sound cue so if you are at a tile you can still mindgame and trying to predict what she is about to do. With Furin? Absolutely not!
What counterplay? What soind cue? Spirit with speed addons is quick enough that when you hear your cue, then there's nothing to be done. Vaulting takes too long and not vaulting means hit.
Sorry to break it to you, but furin is one of her weaker addons. Actually it's like mirror meyers - creates jumpscare potential in exchange of not using one of her really broken addons
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I see you havent discovered what mother-daughter and yakuyoke amulet or cherry blossom does on spirit.
I am very much convinced furin is actually one of her fairer addons. (Survivor main playing spirit about 3% of all games)
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Boil over never helps against semi-competent killer. Never (pc only experience). The perk is meme. You can counter any wiggling very easily by looking left-right in opposite rhythm to what wiggling does. BO is a joke. About as strong as corrective actions. The only difference/value from the perk is hiding the aura of nearby hook - which also works only on weak killers that are not aware of their surroundings. In very exceptional case falling wiggle bonus helps but that one is so damn rare, because any competent killer knows BO is in play.
I sincirely don't understand why so many survivors bring the perk. It makes so little sense.
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@xni6_ said:
buffing solo to swf level (not quite there but getting there) and not compensating the killer in return was a mistake
lets hope soon theyll figure it out and give something to help out
Doing 6.1 and not compensating survivors was bad move. Let's hope devs actually balance the game so that both sides have fair chance to win/loose/draw.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326925#Comment_3326925
Against a Nurse who knows what they're doing, there's nothing you can do but die in a location that wastes as much of the Nurse's time as possible. This is something that comp players will verbalize.
Sure. Again agreed. You can waste some little time when there is a lot of LOS blockers - making her guess more. Also nurse now lost her exposed perks (it takes her double time to down you) and range addons (map traversal and instahit after regular hit), so the situation and time-waste potential is much better now (you can maybe have a 20-25s chase against god nurse now - very different from regular 5-10s chases she had)
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326915#Comment_3326915
- "40s gen regression and prolonging game to 40 minutes". This simply doesn't happen. Ever.
- "taking some iri stuff (also some stuff is not iri" while true that you also listed non-iri stuff, your solution to a perk that can be taken at will is turn run limited resources, of which the vast majority is exceedingly rare, particular killers and particular perks, all to counter the possible appearance of 1 perk... Yeah that IS broken. It is the definition of broken.
- "Like sure mate" yes, indeed.
- "You are not entitled at all" also correct, as I am not the one demanding to not fix a broken perk
- "Also for "garbage killers"" didn't say that, I said: "You just want all killer perks to be garbage"
- "Once again. 60% murder rate" has absolutely nothing to do with any of this, literally zero
1, So last time this happens to me with killer guarding his 3gen instead of chasing anyone was my hallucinations?
2, The list is very long. Pick something. Or don't. It's not like the thing has no counter and DH=win. Once again - in high elo where DH is most used (because it takes skill) there is still 61% murder rate - which means that there aparently - stat-wise is counter to the perk
3, 4, sure you are entitled
5, I have quite a good success with my most common build - darkness revealed, corrupted intervention, overcharge, pain resonance. I see nothing wrong with this build. It's also not as overtuned as eruption (and to a degree as call of brine). Calling these perks garbage shows things about you specifically. Also bamboozle (my common substitute for darkness revealed for certain killers) is also not trash. Same as huge number of other killer perks
6, it shows objective information how killers overall do. They can't be bad if they have 60% kill rate. That's objetively and stat-wise not true. Survivors (as a whole) are the weaker role now with 40% escape rate
@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326922#Comment_3326922
"You may only deal with this perk if you play this Killer!" is even worse advice. Fearmonger backfires as often as it helps (people start running way earlier).
If you're suggesting people only play certain characters if they want to deal with a perk that's in every game, maybe that perk is a problem!
So you say people play bad when they have DH but are still good enough to be actually able to use it? Wouldn't pre-running always be better no matter what? And if it's not better - doesn't that mean fearmonger actually provides you value?
Also to your deep wound - does that mean survivor can use DH while deep wounded? Or does that mean these killers can't apply deep wound? Again - taking these killers means you don't need to worry about DH, because said survivors will be unable to use it - making DH gamble (a wasted perk slot if they meet these killers).
@Blinckx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326922#Comment_3326922
Fearmonger only work while you're working on a gen and for the next 5 seconds, it only counter Sprint Burst and Aura perk abilities. It MAY counter DH if the survivor is injuried and caught completly off guard
Slinger and Legion are not counter to DH, deep wound is, Legion have to hit you once in Frenzy, STOP for 3 seconds ( cause he can't hit you twice unless you're the 4th hit ) and then hit you again while you are still under the deep wound effect, same goes for the slinger or basically everything you have mentioned
Fearmonger usually works for way longer then 5s. You might have not noticed, but exhaustion recovers only when not running. Once in chase, survivor will usually (always if you are any good) need to run for almost all the time (it's almost certain he will not find 5s of standing still time).
Also suggesting play certain killers - not true. I listed all the possible options against it. And one option is to take any killer and no addon/perk against specifically this perk. You can always just outplay it. Win the mindgame. Sometimes all you need to do is miss a single attack on purpose (giving you much better value from DH players then from say sprint burst players where you can't just miss to disable the perk).
Overall - I would love it if say eruption - very strong and rewarding killer perk had so many conditions as DH (about same reward time-wise already considering survivor vs killer time). Because it's not possible to take survivor perk that denies kicking gen but allows working on it (the closest thing survivors have are repressed alliance that blocks the gen for everyone or blast mine that just prolongs the inevitable by ~5s). If there was any perk that can cancel any effect the gen has currently on it (so basically it would be counter to current meta - call of brine, overcharge and eruption) and did nothing else - it would still be used a lot. Killers have this and more (like said fearmonger counters also fogwise and partially other aura perks + helps with DMS+pain res combo).
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326898#Comment_3326898
I had said: "Given that the developers nerfed this addon by making it almost useless, I wonder what players will now cry about the nurse."
To which you replied, "The Nurse itself."
We have trouble understanding each other 😁
However, it is clear that the nurse has always been, and always will be stronger than the other killers; and that in itself is not a problem. The nurse is the boss of the game in a way 😊
Yes agreed (with misunderstanding each other).
I took survivor's POW as I didn't think nurse players have that much to complain about. But you are right. It's always both sides that complain :D
And I also agree that nurse will always be final boss and that's OK (so long as there actually still are things to do against her)
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326915#Comment_3326915
Taking an iri into every game because it gives exposed somehow or the equivalent is not a practical way to handle DH.
Take fearmonger. You don't need iri stuff every game. Check the whole list. There are a lot of things there. Pick the thing you like most. Like deathslinger or legion - now you don't need any perk or addon to counter DH.