bunnyfengenthusiast
bunnyfengenthusiast
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3398470#Comment_3398470
BNPs - Yes, smart people do the smart thing. My question was essentially how often do you see people do that smart thing? The vast majority of my BNP matches are a single person using on their first gen, or dying with it unused (either because I saw the BNP under hook as Surv, or because 0 of the gens were completed so I just have to assume it went unused). I probably have only seen 4 BNPs once or twice, and I remember winning at least one of them regardless. I think BNPs are more of a boogeyman that doesn't actually live under the bed. Syringes I completely understand and agree are a problem though, and with the self-healing nerfs they will take 24s basekit to go into effect on yourself, so I feel like that is getting fixed.
I run into an average of 2 BNPs per game. The games that there is no BNP in, a survivor will typically dc/suicide on first hook.
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@Halloulle said:
on 3) and 4) that's already context dependent - and will be even more in the future with self-healing nerfs.
3) If I got a medkit I usually want to keep it for a situation where I need a heal but no one else is there, e.g. to unhook, take chase, do a gen in a dead zone, am on death hook - plenty situations late game where you need a way to heal by yourself. I usually even have Leader so it's quicker. 4) More often than not I have We'll Make it and/or Desperate/Botany.
So, I guess I wanna tell future SoloQ mates:
If you see the we'll make it icon and the killer isn't already on their way back just let me reset you right then and there. It physically hurts me to see someone spend twice as much time (or in the future even longer) to waste their charges in a situation where they don't need to.
If I frantically point at the gate when you got there right before me chances are I have Wake up and can open it way quicker - and can let others know where the gate is that's being opened in the process.
If I frantically point at a locker if we spawn together chances are I have Distortion and the killer has Lethal. Me frantically pointing at a locker upon someone being hooked/unhooked means they have BBQ/Floods. Me pointing at a gen and then at a locker means Nowhere to Hide. (And I really wish there were widely known gesture-codes to communicate certain killer perks/add ons)
If you have WMI, altruistic healing is fine. But 98% of the time if you have a medkit, it's better to use it in the moment. Those 16s are huge for your team.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3397492#Comment_3397492
We talked about addons that can speed up chase by 50%. He has an addon, that can skip 2 hook states AND injury - that's way more then 300% speedup and quite bonkers.
But the point stands. It's ok for MM to have such an addon (same as all the other killers in my very much incomplete list) so long as survivors have commodius with BNP's. I would argue that survs are still at disadvantage, because killers can black ward their OP stuff, while survivor's OP things just vanish after use...
Tombstone/Piece is absolutely not okay, and survivors have white ward. What now?
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3397076#Comment_3397076
Even accounting for a generous 18s per 'reload', you get a solid ~50s, on top of it being available when you need to speed up a gen. the BNP is only available the first gen you try to use it on. How often do you actually see people save BNPs for the final 3 gens? Heck, you can't even tell unless you watched them personally, or had a recording of the Survivor HUD seeing it speed up. The majority of my soloq teammates burn BNPs on the very first gen, and typically drop their box for a chest item instead. Them wasting time rerolling their item on the chest often makes up for the BNP boost alone.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3397500#Comment_3397500
I thought White Ward saved whatever item and add-ons they brought into the trial, even if they used an add-on mid-match.
Doesn't matter when a BNP is being used, it provides the value that it does. Assuming the survivors are not stupid and not 3-genning themselves, the last gen is a formality if you have 1-2 hooks spread out between two people by the time you're down to 1 gen left. And even if they do 3-gen themselves, what can most killers do against that? You protect the gens too much, survivors chip at them slowly and progress the two on the edges bit by bit until one pops. You commit to a chase too much? You get a down, last gen pops, survivors open gate and coordinate a 3-man rescue. Gen time provides a standard for how long a game should take. When that standard is slashed by a third because survivors brought 4 BNP commos, the killer has much less time to work with.
Thing is, survivors are already mathematically advantaged even without BNPs. If you throw BNPs in the mix, it's basically impossible to lose a game unless if the survivors are just feeding downs left and right.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3397290#Comment_3397290
Hallo. It was just mentioned. MDR+amulet spirit is totally different thing then yellow duration and yellow speed spirit. 50% chase reduction is absolutely fine estimate. Same thing for tombstone piece. Or C33+alch ring. Or engeneering's fang + original pain. Or pinky finger + extra bottles. Or bestmarks + award chilly for camping bubba. Or Black incense + iridescent seal.
Do I need to even continue? There are so many OP things on killer's side - that it's absolutely OK to also have OP things on survivor's side. And if we actually want balanced game instead, then remove all the OP stuff from both sides
Out of that entire list, the only addons that are "OP" are Pinky finger (getting nerfed), Engi fang (on a good Pinhead that can actually hit chains), C33/Alch Ring. And even fewer of them come close to comparing to how busted BNPs are.
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Vault speed builds are yawn. Even Resi is very strong and common nowadays. We don't need more chase oriented perks for survivors. Maps are already too safe without survivors being able to turn any unsafe pallet into a safe vault.
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@imakepeoplehateme said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3397076#Comment_3397076
Yeah ofc those addons are busted.Thats exactly my point.If those addons are allowed to be in the game so should brand new part.Take them out together or leave them be
We're not playing tit for tat. This thread is about BNPs specifically. You want those addons addressed, make a thread about it. I'm sure plenty of people will show support, myself included. But don't come on a thread about BNPs playing the whataboutism game. That's not gonna fly.
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@imakepeoplehateme said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396927#Comment_3396927
For the same reason its fine for blight to look at a pallet and for it to dissapear(C33),for the same reason clow can instadown(pinky),for the same reason spirit can match blights speed(MDRing).It's fine for both sides to have strong,unbalanced options as long as its not overly opressive,and both sides have such a nuclear alternative.I do agree survivors have stronger stuff,4 Bnps + map offering is a stronger boon than any killer can provide for themselves,but the game doesn't need to be 100% balanced
It's funny how you mention three of the strongest addons in the game, who almost everyone, killer mains included, agree should get nerfed, and believe you're making a solid argument.
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396927#Comment_3396927
It 100% is a party game, but you do have a point, too many people take this game far too seriously (probably myself as one of them). The extremes in BNP/Syringe/Nurse/Blight against Add-on less Green Key/Green Map/Freddy/Doctor are what make the game a party game. It is far too varied in terms of balance without making drastic changes, and even then pretending those changes makes the game a balanced competition is just as much a joke as 'pro' Smash players. You can play king of the hill, but the hill is made of manure-based fertilizer.
Anyone can have fun rolling in the pile, just remember to shower afterwards.
Edit: (Also worst case scenario all 4 survs bring BNPs which drops 5 gens to 4. A 20% difference from a stacked team is hardly a regular issue, let alone enough to prevent you from injuring and downing them. People reliant on those crutches tend to be without skill, which would make your match easier indirectly.)
Edit 2: One of the juiciest Toolboxes with Built to Last gives you ~105 gen seconds, and that same juiciest toolbox with a BNP instead of one of those add-ons (still with BTL) only gives ~95 gen seconds. The other synergies are much more egregious than the BNP itself. BNPs feel bad because you see a big iri addon, but a BNP in and of itself only buys 22.5s. 3 unhook heals with We'll Make It provides more value. BNPs feel worse than their effect actually hurts killers.
While BTL can refill items, it's important to account for the time spent refilling them in a locker. And while We'll Make It provides more efficiency than a BNP in raw numbers, it's important to remember the fact that gens are a killer's primary objective, and are often patrolled, whereas survivors can heal anywhere. The extra 22.5 seconds (""only"") of gen time that is saved is crucial, because it's a static objective.
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@imakepeoplehateme said:
I think its perfectly okay to have strong items,addons and overall tools to bring into a trial to tip the scales.
At its core dbd is a party,casual game,it just wouldn't be the same if we remove all the goofy,unbalanced stuff it has.Keep them as they are,just make sure not to keep killers in the dust regarding similar strong options,and to hopefully buff a few regression perks down the line to stabilize the lack of slowdown which will be present next patch.
DBD isn't a casual party game.
But assuming it is, why not just make call of brine regress gens by 600%? It's a goofy, fun, unbalanced perk. Why shouldn't DH make you invincible for the remainder of the trial? That's just goofy and fun, isn't it?
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@kisfenkin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395826#Comment_3395826
I don't think you understand what luxury means. Items are forced to be bought while a player levels. The entire game is balanced around survivors bringing them. In fact, they are expected to bring them. A luxury is something few are meant to have and is somewhat difficult to get.
Items are, in many matches, a necessity, and at the very least they are a tool expected to be used.
By the way, Franklin's is easily countered with Built to Last, as well as just sitting your item on the ground, so saying that it isn't supposed to be countered is also wrong.
As to the OP, @NovaKane, I think White Ward should have the OP's suggestion built into it. They should also make the broken key a single use item that knocks an add-on out of the killer's hands. Counterable by a Black Ward.
Is this why there are winstreak squads that do hundreds of escapes in a row without using items, or only using items found in the trial?
Believe it or not, the game isn't balanced around your team bringing an instant 25% gen progress with another 40% done at lightning speed, or 4 self-heals and an instaheal, or a map that hard counter killer powers and gives you exact totem locations.
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@HugTechLover said:
Lately survivors have been just giving up at a much higher rate lately. Anybody else experiencing this?
I’d say 65ish percent of the time, the first person I hook just drops themselves, causing a domino effect of quitters.
I even changed killers from blight to see if that was the issue; and nope, survivors still giving up and quitting. I’ve started slugging anybody who tries to give up early on as a way to discourage it. Why even Que up if you’re just going to quit on your team?
Props to the survivors that put up a fight regardless of the situation.
Gotta play during swf hours.
Actually, not even that. I had a 4 man bring Garden offering, and 4 BNP commodius. They dc'd one by one as I hooked them before they died.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. DCing needs to escalate to a perm ban if done too frequently. A DC ruins the game for both the killer and survs.
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Opens up the game to all kinds of abuse, and overt working with killer. There's KYF if you wanna play with friends.
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If this update has done anything, it's brought out the killers that crutched on gen kick to play the game.
"I can't play unless I have my unearned 300% gen regression"
Good riddance. I manage 4k's with 0 slowdown most games. You'll either adapt, or MMR will kick you down to a level where you can actually play. Also, how is DH getting buffed?
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Why is everyone obsessed with countering every little thing a killer can do? Franklins isn't supposed to be countered by design. Items are a luxury, not an entitlement. Learn to play without them, you'll be better for it.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394900#Comment_3394900
Not anymore, it’s getting changed to activate only when you are unhooked or unhook yourself.
It is now impossible for one survivor to use DH more than twice in a match.
Oh, I thought they made it so both the unhooker and the unhooked person got it. Okay, that's much better then. DH is dead, nothing of value is lost.
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I mean, Self Care is literally unchanged from how it is currently. And with COH being gone, it'll be just as strong as it is currently. You get a 40s self heal, which is less efficient than an altruistic heal, but you don't need anyone else. Sounds like a very strong perk to me.
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Just use a green mori dude
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@WesCravenFan said:
As much as I loathe this perk as much as Sideshow Bob hates Bart, I need to point out you know EXACTLY who does not have Dead Hard:
If you have not hooked them, they don't have it.
If they unhook, they get it.
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Yeah I've seen it happen quite a lot. Survivor will get swarmed while dropping a pallet, and slow vault the pallet into me. Always funny when it happens but I can sympathize. Another aggravating thing is when you're going for a window vault and you get vacuumed into a locker vault.
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At least Phead has range addons. What does Freddy have?
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A lot to unpack here. First off, iri 2 = grade =/= rank =/= mmr.
Second, you're attributing a negative connotation to WoO, likely because you got slapped by a survivor, and they had WoO equipped. A survivor without can achieve the exact same effect. Pallets spawn in certain spots, whether you have windows or not. The main issue isn't the perk, it's the map design.
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None of those are bully squads. You wanna see a bully squad? Try a 4 man with no mither, ub, expo, sabo boxes, badham offering with basement in shack, running to main every time they take chase, and going down in basement with a breakout ready nearby.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3390806#Comment_3390806
I've played against some of this game's best Blights, so... yeah, the advice works.
As with anything though, simply knowing how to be better doesn't make you better. Hours of experience are needed to execute what you learn
Ok? And I've played against some of the best Blights, and I've played against some very good comp survivors on Blight. It works. Don't get me wrong, it does take a LOT of practice, and mechanical accuracy, but Blight is very strong. Those mindgames will likely work on 90% of Blights though.
I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it's a great thing to have a very strong killer with a high skill ceiling. It's better than the mind numbing antiloop garbage we've been getting lately.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
This isn't as great as a video demonstrating the concepts, but hopefully some people can put this to practice and find success.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UVC1SH5S03PF/image.png
If you don't run into a lot of hug tech Blights, and just struggle with how quickly he can run you down, my best advice is to constantly double back around thin obstacles. The wider the obstacle, the easier it will be for him to hit you as he flies around a corner.
Honestly, a lot of this wouldn't even work on a good enough Blight. I assume that pallet is supposed to be the car pallet next to main in Coal Tower. A virtual tech can easily hit a survivor on the other side of the car while being unreactable. Not to mention Blight can moonrush on one side of the car and circle around almost a 270 degree to the other side, forcing a hit on a survivor. However, a survivor aware of these Blight techs can play around them and expect a preturn on a moonrush, a virtual tech, or straight bump logic, and can play accordingly.
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Average entitled survivor. We should just make an offering that traps the killer in a cage so survivors can BM safely and get a 4 out.
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As obnoxious as COB OC is, that game lasted 5 minutes tops.
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I've slapped a lot of decent Blights in solo q.
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Spirit main doesn't think MDR is busted. Sounds about right.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3390051#Comment_3390051
Lol. So you want left c33 without any benefit, but with FAT downsides? Because with longer stun there will be no difference with usual m1 attack in rush. Should I even say that 3 rushes blight is the stupidest concept for addon. So what's the point, top 150 lethal rushes blight?
Blight is the single best pallet breaker in the game with C33. The only weakness that Blight has are pallets. A good enough Blight will hit you no matter what, unless if you have a pallet. C33 removes his only weakness. Breaking pallets in power is quick, but it has two downsides: one is that you use TWO lethal rush tokens as opposed to just one, and the other is that you still have the post-break fatigue during which you can't move. C33 lets you just eat the pallet and move immediately afterwards. That's far too strong. Not to mention the Hindered is a lot stronger than people give it credit. An addon that powerful should not exist. If it's to retain the pallet breaking ability, it has to have a big downside. Yes, 3 token Blight sounds significantly weaker than regular Blight, but you also become the best pallet breaker in the game. You shouldn't have access to one of the strongest chase powers in the game at full power, as well as being able to chew through pallets, simply by equipping a single addon. That's absurd.
@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3390021#Comment_3390021
Everyone is crying that the speed addons are op, but I still haven't seen a single argument. Maybe you have it?
Speed addons are definitely not OP, but they're amongst Blight's strongest and most used. Alch Ring and C33 are just straight up broken though.
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Yeah Eyrie is still ridiculously survivor sided. Main still has a god window that turns into a very strong window when killer breaks two walls, and every pallet is still far too safe, except for the new one they added to the right of main.
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Top 150 lethal rushes blight here. C33 and alch ring need a fat nerf. Make alch ring double recovery speed for 5s after landing a lethal rush (same effect, but rewards you more for using less rushes, while also giving buffer between rushes). Give c33 longer stun for Blight, and make it give you a huge downside (2 less rushes, or -10% rush speed).
Vial is fine. The restrictions to turn angle severely limit the hits that Blight can go for.
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I'm tired of people refusing to adapt against different killers.
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Pinhead's power is useless outside a deadzone? I recommend you learn to play Pinhead, fam. His chains are a very strong antiloop and can shut down a lot of tiles and pretty much every filler.
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Blight main here. C33 and alch ring definitely deserve a nerf.
That said, in 4k hours, I've never ran into any good blight that ran either. It's always double speed. I'm usually shocked to see alch ring in post game because they never land any hits.
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How do you balance this out? Twins are already very strong while there is only one of them running around. How do you even set up the queue for twins specifically, as opposed to any other killer? Take 5 seconds to think about it and you'll realize how bad of an idea this is.
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Don't change survivors but do change killers. No bias at all.
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Regardless of how many activations you'll get out of it, current DH is absolutely stupid oppressive.
Case in point: yesterday, I'm playing against a Blight. I've already hit him with DH so he knows to wait it out. I'm completely zoned out in the left side of Suffocation Pit main. He wins a mindgame and I'm zoned away from the filler pallet. The nearest pallet is near top of mid. I spin at him once, he waits DH. I make distance from bodyblocking him with the spin. He closes the gap again, I spin at him again. Same thing happens again. Third spin, he still respects. Now, I've made it to the filler at top of mid, I DH through it, he hits the DH and I greed the pallet. Thanks to this one perk, I've managed to get out of a situation where I was 100% dead, and saved two pallets in the process, as well as gave my team an extra 10s to work on gens. There shouldn't be a single perk in the game that is as oppressive as current DH.
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@TigerSnake said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381947#Comment_3381947
And yet we’re in for an even more stale meta. Enjoy seeing Corrupt, Deadlock, and Sloppy in literally everyone’s load out.
At least, I can get gens done instead of playing 45 minute knight games.
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@TigerSnake said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381939#Comment_3381939
Then bring back old Pop and Ruin.
I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Ruin go up to 125%-150%, and Pop going up to 25% of current gen progression. That said, the genkick meta is the most stale meta I've ever seen in this game, and I'm glad this update kills it for good.
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As a non genkicking killer, let COB and OC burn in the pits of hellfire.
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All they need to do is crank up the regression to 20-25% and it would justify the token system, but I'm not entirely mad at the system as they plan it out either.
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"I suck at using DH and so it shouldn't be nerfed"
I use DH every game, and I run into it every game I play killer. It needs a nerf yesterday.
"Medkits"
Medkits are far too efficient. I've done a thread explaining this before. A single medkit with two heals is more efficient than a BNP for the survivor team. Survivors don't only need medkits when they "win" a chase. There's also SWFs rotating to take a hit, then resetting in seconds with medkits to do it again.
"PR"
Although I'm not a huge fan of this change, I like that they at least made it so it incentivizes spreading hooks. The slower healing alone may do wonders for the speed at which gens get done.
"COH"
It's gonna be a very strong perk still, considering healing is slowed down further. COH creates a beacon for survivors to regroup and reset much faster.
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@kill4escape4win said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377962#Comment_3377962
how is the killer without add-ons, blight is strong, nurse is strong, spirit is strong, deathslinger is alright, ghostface is okay, waith is okay,
Myers is weak without anything.
Yes, killers are weaker without addons. My point is that considering a killer's tier without considering their addons is unrealistic.
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@kill4escape4win said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377902#Comment_3377902
he is without add-ons and proper perks, but he doesn't need those add-ons to be A tier.
It's not realistic to consider a killer without their addons though.
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@kill4escape4win said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377875#Comment_3377875
this is not about reworking myers...............
My point is that Myers isn't D tier.
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Tombstone Piece is the strongest addon in the game. Inf T3 and Tombstone are egregiously designed.
Rework all 3 of the above, and make stalk passively refill for survivors.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377144#Comment_3377144
Take legion with iri button and resetting power at stun and you have exactly no chance. That thing is by huge margin worse then nurse on that map (and I am saying this even after acknowledging nurse strength on this map). But you don't even need that.
All you need is any killer with some slowdown and spirit fury/enduring/hubris/brutal strength combo and 0 respect for any pallet. Say you take pig (but you have other killers with slowdowns) with addon to hide boxes and start with traps on a head - this gives you enough time to just delete all the pallets and kill anyone trying to do anything about them.
Alternatively you can go at it the other way around. DMS+deadlock+PR+jolt bubba/billy/nemesis/wraith are also way too strong.
Also the map got nerfed if you compare it to historical state. It used to have up-to 34 pallets - which meant killer didn't really have a chance when playing normally, but there were still things to be done for survivors and pallet-build killer. Right now it contains up-to 25 pallets - which would be fine if there wasn't specific anti-pallet build in game.
So again. The map is broken. It's very unfair that it contains just 1 resource and killers are able to have a build that eliminates said resource from existence. I would much rather face random nurse on this map, then anti-pallet build considering the state the map is in. It's just pure awful. Maybe try it yourself. Go to that map yourself with antipallet build and see how easy you win it (if you take any killer that has some kind of slowdown or ultra quick pallet annihilations).
I played against this exact build yesterday and we 2 outed. Legion with stun+iri button, end fury bam jolt. I just kept vaulting every pallet after drop to force the regular break. He hardcore tunneled and camped a 3 gen too.
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@ClawsOfHell said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/368631/why-shouldnt-i-tunnel
4 diferents gens across the map? so what the killers is doing?
takes like 95-100s to do one gen, 90% of the killers are blights with sabe copy paste build and tunneling u right after the unhook, u don't even need to tunnel to win like 98% of the matchs, kill one guy then switch to another one and then go back, u don't need to literraly go for only one survivor the whole game, that's what bad killer do and when they get stomp by a SWF they ask for nerf, i play for like 5 years never had to such crap play style to win and i used to play red ranks and top mmr.
Tunneling in this game is a design flaw like camping but devs don't care but at least everyoned should have a chance to even play and not just watch yourself on the hook for 2minutes or 4m on the ground with loud music.
What is this game where it takes 95-100s for survivors to do gens? I know it's not DBD, the game I'm talking about.
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Not a bad ranking. DS is def A tier though.