imakepeoplehateme
imakepeoplehateme
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@solarjin1 said:
Every killer on the forums is high mmr. 🤣🤣 They just all happen to be in the top 5% no big deal bro.
This is not the "Gotcha" you think it is
How many people even visit the forums lmfao. I bet 99% of the player base doesn't even know they exist. You have to be quite passionate, aka spend a lot of hours into the game... which I'd (hopefully) assume it translates into higher skill.
The threshold for High MMR is also depressing low as killer. Just play during a Friday night, all the 5k hour SWFs show up... but hey, I guess those peeps aren't in the top 5% lol, after all if you don't have 20k hours and scrimming every other week, are you even a high MMR player?
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Just make his debuff actually do something other then making them cough every 3 business days. Slow gen and healing by 10% while infected, base power fixed.
His addons are his biggest setback. Why does he only have one DECENT addon, while the rest give you value in one chase out of 3 games?
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/375041/does-blight-have-a-a-skill-floor
currently 70% of his addons are soo powerful that are not even fair if you compare them with other killers + hug tech still exist which unlike some people said "is a bug , is not intended , it makes the killer more powerful when blight doesnt need that to be good"
BUT ....basekit blight takes a decent amount of skill in order to perform good flicks and also knowing the angles to start rushing on some tiles and getting downs with your power instead of playing full m1 or relying on strong addons.
( yeah ..most of his addons are totally broken IMO , and pretty much Nobody uses their low tier addons because WHY would you?)
Which addons are you even referring to.
If you can't hit your rushes speed or ring won't do anything for you? They both require you to know what you are doing and alc only rewards you for using your power properly (albeit to a questionable degree).
Andren viles sounds broken on paper, and compared to basekit sure its an upgrade but you NEED to know what you are doing. Its not something you just pick up in your first game, new hits become possible while others can no longer be performed.
Iri tag is a well designed addon if not for the fact that the first survivor downed has no warning. Hitting survivors with your last rushes sounds easier than it actually is, for most people i would argue it makes them play worse as they will try to get value from it instead of taking free hits.
C21(or the auro one idk exactly) requires quick decision making and confidence. You need to both keep track of the survivors, think of a sequence of rushes to perform and actually using the information in a matter of like 1 second before you enter fatigue. You also still have to hit your flicks.
C33 is indeed opressive,no one is defending it really, but its his ONLY addon which requires no skill to get meaningful value from. Most of his addons just enhance an already proficient blight player. Getting a down in 10 seconds because you brought a funny right is a ridiculous step up over his basekit but still requires you to land your shots in the first place.
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@MikeyBoi said:
I praise the streamer who won a 1000 games in a row in pubs as Blight running the strongest build all while playing sweaty as possible against 4 survivors who all mostly have a combined total of under 1500hrs still trying to learn game mechanics 👌..
Funny how you call them pubs, as if the comp scene for dbd even exists. Is winning that many games not a display of skill? Can you win 1000 games in a row under any conditions? Not mention the addons used weren't even blight strongest, no ring , no c33, no wallhacks not even adren just double speed. Is there anything shameful in running perks that give you value?
@solidhex said:
Of course there are more skillful and less skillful players, but it's really hard to determine in a single game. I've stomped teams and got stomped by the same. It really depends on the loadouts and the RNG (maps, tiles etc). It's also hard for me to congratulate someone who's stomping public solo squads with Blight and Nurse, i don't see any skill in that with the current loose MMR system.
@Coffeecrashing said:
I refuse to admit that anyone is exceptional at this game, as long as BHVR refuses to let us see MMR numbers. I've watched so many killer streamers, where the survivors walk into walls, and have terrible pathing, that I just assume many of these streamers are dropping their MMR off stream to get easy games while they're on stream. And I've watched so many survivor streamers, where the killers whiff M1 attacks 5 times in a row, and we're supposed to believe the killers are anywhere near the same MMR as the streamer??????
We sometimes even have streamers publicly advertise that they are playing survivor games on a new account, and their viewers will cheer them on, as these streamers stomp all over the default MMR killers.
ok? How does facing bad opponents take away from the skill of the player. Would you call someone like lilith bad even though he is sweeping lobbies and clearly facing opponents worse then him?
Blight and nurse take skill to use, they are not the killers with the highest kill rate, and the average player piloting these killers is terrible. It takes time and dedication for these killers to show results. Its also not the players fault that the match maker sucks, different topic altogether .
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@CorvusCorax86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3419502#Comment_3419502
This is very detailed, thank you.
In your opinion what made the number of Nemesis (Nemeses?) become smaller in games? This is what I've been experiencing (Europe, GMT+1).
Can it be that by nerfing Eruption a lot of people just don't trust this killer anymore?
My guess is as good as yours.I'm a killer main so i don't have that much experience regarding killer playrates,i am playing on the same region and similar time zone though.
Personally i stopped playing him after i got a proper taste of stronger killers.Going from blight,a killer who removes distance as a concept to a killer where all you do is playing catch up is exhausting.
I do believe eruption made a difference in his play rate,but i don't believe it was that significant. Nemesis has always been a fun killer,from a renowned franchise,so i would assume most killer mains already owned him when it was discovered how expressive eruption was.
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@Zeon_99 said:
If I had the choice to prevent ever facing a single killer, Nemesis would be the easiest choice in the world. No counterplay against a slightly competent Nemesis. Zombies just walking into your loop with no counterplay. Nemesis just holding out his whip when you get to a pallet and always getting value with the hit or with the broken pallet.
"B-but he's low tier" Legion at release was absolutely garbage yet was universally hated for the same reason I hate Nemesis.
"B-but it takes 3 hits to down you" It could take 20 hits to down and every interaction would still be boring.
"Huntress, Deathslinger, and Pyramid Head have projectiles" Huntress and Deathslinger both are 110 speed and is arguably more punishing for the player if they miss a hit. Pyramid Head is 115, but you can actually react to his attack and it takes a few frames to come out.
"Just juke it" No good projectile killer is gonna miss when Survivors press the A and D key. Reacting when movement is so limited is very easy. I used to main Deathslinger when he came out so I know that hitting those shots isnt hard, especially when Nemesis has a lingering hitbox.
"Just crouch behind the loop" Not only does that not always protect you, the Nemesis can just keep his whip out and keeping walking through the loop until you commit to an action. Can't stay crouched forever.
I have like 150 cakes on Nemesis that will stay there forever because I refuse to have such mind numbing chases.
I encourage you to play nemesis and see for yourself how utterly weak you can feel.The requirement of hitting 3 times means you are spending 90% of your chase catching up,at loops or even in the open whips are seldom guaranteed.He can only do so while you are in an animation,else his hitbox is so narrow you can dodge it quite consistently.
Even more counterplay can be found in his early game.At tier 1 he feels like the worst killer in the game.If you hit a survivor you just give them a speed boost.They can pre drop you just like a clown.You have to hit 2 different survivors to tier up(so 2 rough chases).
His zombies are weird.You can have a match where zombie screw you over and feel opressive,but other times they can even mess with the killer(they can bodyblock him).
If you play him for over 20 matches i assure you,you will have a greater respect and more fun facing him.His whip is a fun mindgame similar to huntress,if you can't dodge it to a decent degree then thats a skill issue.
He is low tier,however his chase isn't.His early game is rough,and his ability to pressure the map is limited.A strong chase is his strong suit,thats to be expected.
A good phead will use his power as a zoning tool or on guaranteed hits.He is also a top tier tunneler and doesn't need to hit you 1 million times.If you don't find him stronger then you are facing weak killers and you are inexperienced.
Your crouching argument makes no sesnse.If i jump over a Long wall or shack nemesis either whips me and can't hit me,or i simply walk away while he is holding it out.He is significantly slower,and it takes him a good second before he can interact with the window again.Keeping the whip out while walking around the window is something i've never seen done as a successful strategy,since it would take him forever to catch up.
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@Deathstroke said:
Tunnel only if it's easy target but don't over do it. Early game you could try multiple targets/hooks and if good opportunity rises then tunnel. Camp if someone is about to reach second stage or about to die just try to take advantage of every survivor mistake. First chase has to be quick because if not gens will fly at lightspeed.
I personally use now pain res, pop, plaything on lot of my builds. I win most my games but get destroyed in games I lose often. There seems to be no middle ground for me I try to improve to be more consistent but things sometimes are just agains't you the game is still survivor sided.
This is the way.There is no one way to play killer,not due to playstyle preference ,but because not one strategy can be used over and over again to success.To succeed as killer you NEED to make a play happen. Whether that be constant pressure by having fast chases with little downtime,tunneling someone out of the game,camping when the opportunity arises,slugg to create pressure and threaten to end the game.
The most general advice that can be given is that you should prioritize killing someone as the game's dynamic changes entirely once in a 1 v 3.By chasing someone and having someone on a hook you have full slowdown as no one is doing gens.If you end the chase faster than the unhook happens,or you find them healing you can slug and threaten to end the whole game for example.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3415798#Comment_3415798
C33 and alch ring are so dumb. His addons should be toned down because his power is already good enough. The other iri one to insta down is fine, makes sense that is the last rush, would be stupid if it was the second one or something. Almost every killer who has no insta down in base kit has an instadown with iri, so it's fine I guess. Other addons need to be looked into though. Something people refuse to accept is that him excelling this much in strength is one of the reasons devs don't want to give big basekit buffs to killer because they would be impossible to fight against Blight (and Nurse, but she already got tuned down).
Ehh the devs aren't buffing killers because the game is balanced in a twisted way.At low and mid mmr the game is fine honestly.A bad map here,a broken addon there but for the most part mistakes are common and punishable on both sides.At high mmr the game while favoring survivors is incredibly volatile.A bad first chase and the game is over,a strong perk at the right time can make or break a game,a survivor going down at a critical point is the difference between a 4k or going home empty handed.
The biggest problem the game is facing in pursuit of balance is the bad map design,and that isn't going anywhere lol.Every change or map added only makes the problem worse.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3415788#Comment_3415788
Since people defend that much him being a 115, let's stick to a nerf in this addons.
Most people agree with that opinion,no one is really defending C33 and few are the ring.
That being said i hope they don't over nerf his addons,having strong addons,fun options and ways to mix up a killers power is how all addons should be designed. He is probably the killer who has the most usable addons and i think more killers should aim to mimic that.
Iri tag for example is an addon mentioned to be butchered and i couldn't disagree more.It changes the way everyone plays in an interesting way,its hard to get value from it and its power is fitting for an iridescent addon.The only flaw it has is that you don't know its there until it hits you and thats literally a one time occurrence(Unlike spirit for example who you will never know what she is rocking).Getting a hit with you last rush,especially if the survivors are aware of it is harder then it looks and you should be rewarded if you pull it of.
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The problem is the design philosophy behind 110 killers.They are killers with stronger than average anti loop,who RELY on their power to get hits(and for the most part can't without it).
Blight does NOT fit into that category.He cannot play every loop with his power,in fact he cannot play most(most trash and filler pallets are not rushable, jungle gyms heavily favor the survivors if they know what they are doing).
This is especially true if you consider hug tech an exploit thats ought to be removed,as then even more tiles become simply unplayable.Blights strength are his map presence and ability to catch up and even hit survivors while they are transitioning to another loop,his ability to play dropped pallets and most strong windows isn't on the same level as 110 killers.
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@ProHillbillyMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3412864#Comment_3412864
Look at the collision detection on Wesker or when Blight is looking forward, trust me, they can do it.
Do you seriously believe its that simple.Blight has multiple systems in place to detect the collision of his rush since he isn't designed to only bump,certain object are intentionally designed to slide on like cars,tables and ormond snow being a few examples.If it were as simple as pressing a button and deleting a few lines of code it would have been fixed.
Not to mention if a new system was put in place i guarantee a new tech or exploit would be discovered so at that point you are just digging your grave.
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If you got to the point where your only means of escape is though the hatch then the killer has won.You are not suppose to get a free escape or even a fair chance after you lost collectively as a team.Said mechanic exists to give survivors hope and a reason to go through with a trial which seems doomed as well as avoiding the situation in which the last survivor hides forever.
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@ProHillbillyMain said:
Blight mains being handheld by busted basekit, addons and exploits since 2020.
But for people with shadowborn and blight pfp it is hard to admit.
Addons aside blights exploits can't really be reasonably fixed.He is not the only killer who suffers from such problems,look at nemesis for example his whip is designed to hit survivors crouching behind windows and yet at certain windows it does not work,its inconsistent thus not intended.Oni can also flick past 90 with jerky camera movements.
Blights collision is consistent however its required.You either bump on something or you slide.Hug teching is just making the game think you are sliding.To fix blight you would have to fix collisions as a whole,and i guarantee you that will only give birth to more problems,bugs and techs being developed,maybe for different killers even that rely on a similar mechanic.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411030#Comment_3411030
Yes I do want the game balanced around the casual player because they make up the majority of players. DBD isn't held together by the top small percent of players who think winning at any cost is the only thing that matters. Its held together by the group of friends who login together and do random shenanigans with lots of laughs and jump scares as they talk about it all in discord. Players like that should be the target audience over those who want to treat the game as some kind of competitive esport.
And your solution is to nerf killers to accommodate for casual survivor players?Baring the fact that tunneling is the least concerning barrier for casuals(the grind for perks is horrid,the learning curve is deceptively rough,killers with unfun counterplay) the game also needs killer players,the game isnt a playground for survivors where one sided is forgotten.The game has been lacking GOOD killer players for years,as a result new killers are meat to the slaughter for veterans to tear apart since mmr prioritizes fast games when no one can fill their place.As a result killers continue to bleed out players,but sure the poor survivors need more attention.
Also fyi the average survivor isn't a 4 or 3 man team.Most people play this game alone or as a duo,so you description of the casual playerbase is already inaccurate.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3410012#Comment_3410012
Most survivors don't know how to effectively deal with a tunneling killer. "In the hands of a good player" is not a good argument for the community as a whole. The casual players of DBD far outnumber the elite who know how to deal with these hard situations. We shouldn't be expected to play on the same level as the best players in the game to mitigate a situation that never should have become this much of a problem to begin with. The survivor experience should not include being eliminated from matches so fast that you didn't even feel like you got the chance to play one. I would also argue gen rushing is largely the result of killers tunneling over the years.
And the casual player is horrible at the game.Do you really want to game to be balanced around said people?Veterans and dedicated players should be the ones retained,they will not jump ship when their friend group does or when a new hot thing is out,they will keep the game alive,it's the same philosophy gacha games use,focus on a small more dedicated group to keep your whole game afloat.
Gen rushing being the result of killer's actions is laughable.In the exact vain as tunneling its the result of bad design.Why would someone do something wrong or less efficient on purpose when it isn't even more fun or rewarding. The killer can only chase one survivor if you are not being chased you should be doing gens(there are exceptions ofcourse but they do not disprove the rule),not looking for bones,or hiding from a terror radius.Survivors have nothing else to do,them doing gens efficiently is perfectly reasonable.
The sad reality of this game is when either side plays as efficiently as possible the game becomes unfun.Losing all gens in 5 minutes,or having a survivor die 2-3 minutes into the match are both unfun situations.You mentioned the casual survivors not having fun but i would argue neither are killers,imaging facing 3k hour swfs when playing at peak hours,cause there is no one else to fill the lobby,even worse as killer you don't even have the perks necessary to compete as they are all scattered on dlc characters,so if you are going to bring up the casual player base( the guys who play 10 hours a week max,and don't watch yt or twitter) killers have it worse.
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That video proves nothing.It might be the best survivor team in the world but the killer is on a similar way above average level.More importantly,the survivors are under heavy restrictions and yet the spirit is struggling.She got 3t hooks at1 gen,thats worse than what you would expect from the third strongest killer on a killer sided map.
@GannTM said:
A lot of your arguments don’t consider the potential a good Spirit can do. You act like she’s very punishing to play when you play badly, and a killer at her strength should be punishing, which is something Nurse and Blight don’t really have and that’s part of the reason why they’re way above everyone else.
Spirit can move very fast in her power at basekit while also being invisible with no turn restrictions, so she can play about any loop in the game except god pallets and windows. Those were other things you haven’t mentioned in your post.
The problem is she is either an anti loop killer or a mobility one with no chase.You are NOT going to phase from 24 meters away and hit a survivor aware of you presence.All they have to do is hold W and they almost outrun your power,if they vault a window or make it to a pallet you can no longer get them.At pallets while she can play most,strong ones such as junggle gyms favor the survivor who can hear her(its difficult to fake one way with such a slow speed).More importantly filler pallets require her to use her power and yet they are a 50/50 that favors the spirit,the problem lies when you miss, you waste so much time.
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@Veritere said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3410034#Comment_3410034
To me, that's just another problem of the playerbase.
We are so focused on playing the most efficient way that we actually stop having fun with what is supposed to be a game. We get so irked with such stupid stuff like teabagging.
I'm not saying the job of a killer isn't to kill, of course it is. The problem comes when people tunnel someone out of the game, ruining the fun for that person and most likely the others.
I know it's not fun for some killers to not get kills. Personally, I only get mad when I get very few hooks and no kills. If I get a lot of hooks and maybe 1 kill, to me it really was an ok game, specially if against a sfw.
But I understand that this mentality isn't for everyone, that's why I said it's not an easy problem to solve.
I'm not debating that tunneling wouldn't be better of removed.All im point out are flaws in yours and other people's common suggestions.You can't just outright remove such a core part of the game.
Regarding mentality you can't really tell people how to play the game.It would be like telling survivors to stop worring about gens or escaping and instead count how many unhooks they had or celebrate having a chase take longer than a minute.You can't tell other people how to play, what a satisfying game is for them or trying to make up a new win condition.
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@Veritere said:
As long as killers have the mentality that only kills count as a victory, this will never change.
Only with extreme measures like giving invincibility to unhooked survivors (which would be abused by swf's so it would never happen) would tunneling disappear.
You can say all you want and give other options like not giving bp for tunneling but that wouldn't stop it. It might stop a few but it won't stop everyone.
Others say to decrease gen speed. That would make soloq even more unbearable than what already is.
Honestly, it's not an easy problem to solve
Why would hooks mean anything.If i get an 8 hook game followed by a bag at the exit and an easy baby killer in all chat i don't feel accomplished. If i had pooled my efforts and had a better target priority that game could have ended in a 4k and even more hooks.
No one is really playing for hooks.There is no incentive to.Its a poor game plan,you are not winning your 1 v 1 against another player,and you are failing at the role of killer(you are supposed to be killing people i'm pretty sure).It feels bad to get 0-1 kills in a game regardless of how hooks you secured.
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@Sylhiri said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409946#Comment_3409946
So basically "I am losing" *activates tunnel mode* "I am now winning.
This is generally why incentives wouldn't work, lol
Every good killer looks to make the game a 1 v 3 at some point. Whether is hard tunneling or opportunistic tunneling,not taking a player out of the game by the midway point is making a mistake.Watch any high level killer,even the angel otz does it.
@Sylhiri said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409962#Comment_3409962
If tunneling was removed from the game then there would be no need for quick gens (except maybe, maybe if camping increases). Tunneling is a big reason gen speeds stay like it is right now.
Yes if tunneling was removed it would call for an enumerable amount of changes,which is why the devs don't bother with it.You can't just make gens take an extra 10 seconds.That being said it would be impossible to outright remove tunneling from the game.At worst killers will just tunnel two survivors at the same time or find another way to exploit it.
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@KateMain86 said:
Tunneling is bad for this game. No one likes being chased down right off the hook.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409831#Comment_3409831
"Tunneling isn't frowned upon by the devs, its not an exploit and it doesn't break immersion."
Yea... it just makes people not want to play the game. If survivors do not have some kind of viable way to counter a tunneling killer then it remains a problem. If survivors had a way to not be seen by the killer for a few seconds after being unhooked then tunneling would probably not be an issue anymore.
I'm not advocating for tunneling per say,i would love for 12 hooking to be viable,but you can't just outright remove it.
That being said tunneling has plenty of counterplay.Its a risky strategy due to the virtue of putting all your eggs into one basket.You need to go all the way through with the kill.If the survivor is running to a safe tile or building you have to commit.If they have survivors bodyblocking you can't just switch targets for an easier chase.Not to mention if you lose them and they hide you outright lost the game.Ds and OtR exist as perks to counter it.Don't hit me with bs that the killer can just hit you off hook or that 3 seconds is nothing.In the hands of a good player it buys plenty of time,that the killer cannot go around for your team to do gens.
Tunneling is also akin to "gen rushing".Its plain simply playing effectively,regardless of how fun it is for the other side.Why would i chase the healthy unhooker who gives me nothing by hooking him when i can make the game a 1 v 3.Until this question gets a valid answer through changes,tunneling will sadly always be among us.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409819#Comment_3409819
But this is a game in the first place. Just because it has horror elements it doesn't mean the game can't be balanced in a way that broken gameplay styles will be abused.
It would be the same as any other typical horror game that, if you die, you just reload a save.
Invincibility is completely fine for this.
You don't seen the understand that the philosophy the developers follow cannot allow such a change to happen.Look at pyramid head he is a tunneling machine and its 100% intended.Cages only work with kinship.You don't get any basetime bt or ms boost.You are out of the cage and fresh meat.Tunneling isn't frowned upon by the devs,its not an exploit and it doesn't break immersion.There are many killers who rely on it as a mechanic for their power.
Even basekit bt crosses the line of the atmosphere the devs intend on making.I reckon it was added since coordinated teams only needed to run 2 and ensure the rescuer had it,meanwhile soloque players risked getting downed with no counterplay since it was outside of their control whether your teammates brought it or not.Even when introduced it was obviously not an anti tunneling feature,and more of a get to a tile and don't die instantly mechanic.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409797#Comment_3409797
Dbd is not a horror game
It isn't,but the developers market it and develop it as such.The "vibe" the game gives off is more important to them than the quality of the game.There are many killers which are conceptually amazing but horrible gameplay wise.Survivors aren't meant to be the teens in vhs that fight back,they are meant to flee and hide and the developers seem the develop the game around that idea.A survivors being invincible removes all immersion.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409797#Comment_3409797
It wasn't the most efficient strategy for 7 years.
It became the de facto most efficient strategy last July. It was far, far less of a problem before that.
Just proving my point further.Dbd is a party game for the majority of the community.Almost no one cares about optimizing and as a result you and most people don't realize how powerful tunneling has always been, you only see it now when tunneling's value has sky rocketed.I can write a 10 page thesis on why tunneling is so powerful,and the reasoning lies at a fundamental level.A few changes in perks don't destroy tunneling.Old ds didn't make tunneling people beforehand unviable or anything.Making the game a 1 v 3 will always top getting a hook on everyone,there has never been any incentive to spread hooks.
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Tunneling has always been the most efficient strategy,i'm surpised it took people almost 7 years to realize that.
If you want tunneling changed you need the whole game to change on a fundamental level.First of all,dead by daylight tries to portray itself as a horror game,you should never be invincible from the killer in a horror game.Second of all and most importantly if you nerf tunneling good killer facing equally skilled survivors will be out of options to win.When all gens can get repaired in 4 minutes i don't care how quick your chases are,if you are unable to eliminate a survivor early you WILL lose vs amazing teams.(look at tournaments,while most teams will be worse than said players,the ability to chose a survivor sided map,and bring multiple toolboxes and strong perks makes high caliber survivor squad be more oppressive than tournament level players)
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He needs to hit people 3 times.His power starts in tier 1 which is almost useless.His infection does almost nothing.His zombies are hit or miss.He lacks ANY good addons.
Survivors just running away from 3 speed boosts is already insane,good luck recovering from that.Your first chase as a result is rougher than most killers.In tier 1 survs can just predrop vs you with a great deal of success.Survivors can crouch at windows to prevent a hit.Even if you have a strong first chase you are still not tier 2,so the start of the 2nd will also be rough.
Having such a rough early game means you will lose 3 gens before you know it,good luck recovering from that.
Vaccines + ease of bodyblocking makes nemesis a poor tunneler.
Infecting random people does almost nothing.Unlike wekser which gives you an easier hit on top of an instadown,nemesis just makes them cough and allows your power to work...
Addons are also a huge part of A tier killers.Besides Nurse,blight and Phead every A tier killer is there by virtue of their strong addons.You can't expect an addonless nemesis to compete
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3407120#Comment_3407120
I am getting real sick of hearing that my opinion is copium lol cuz it's literally just my opinion, as someone who plays both surv and killer
Well then provide arguments for it.I'll tell you why I dread DH more than any other exhaustion perk.
1.Its simply unfun.Not lunging and ending a chase when it should have isn't engaging gameplay nor does it fit in a fast paced game.On top of that getting deadharded feels terrible,well played you ran at a pallet and i couldn't do anything,great perk btw.
2.Its uncounterable vs good players.If you are an m1 killers pallets can turn dh in a lose lose situation,same goes for windows though where it becomes a 50/50(you either lunge to secure a hit if they vault,or you either don't thinking they might dh).If you use any killer power good luck,you are playing against 3 health states.Killer powers are simply to predictable and most killers have a brief window to down you using it.On top of that reacting to a lunge is easy,and predicting an m1 although killer sided losing said prediction feels terrible.
3.It kills your pressure. If you sprintburst at the start of a chase i can decide whether im going to commit to a chase or not,and im not risking it all chasing you.But when faced with dh you are litteraly geting hit by it the second the chase should have ended.This extends it more than you might have expected it and turns a chase you committed that seemed like an easy down into a loss of pressure.
4.You can't prevent it like other exhaustion perks.Lithe requires them vaulting a window.You can play around it by not letting them get the vault or by hitting them while doing it.Balanced landing works in a similar fashion.Overcome has the restriction of only working when healthy. Sprintburst isn't always up when you need it,as it might be on cooldown after running somewhere.If you 99% SB thats a display of skill and i commend you.
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@BooperDooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3406717#Comment_3406717
Nurse is still overly strong, obviously yes she takes skill, like many killers. I don't have any complaints about blight personally, I never mentioned him, nurse can shut down chases so quickly especially on very open maps so she has tons of line of sight. Getting slugged at 5 gens because of solo q and her being able to quickly teleport still across far distances just is not fun. Even supaalf is mentioning how overly strong nurse is and he's literally a nurse main.
With the knight there really is no counterplay to having 2 killers chase you and zone you if you're away from, or he's pushing you away from the flag. I think it's more than unfun, but overly strong in chase. He shouldn't be able to shut down a chase in under 20 seconds just because he can, hence he should either not have the ability to chase survivors with a minion or have a long cooldown between spawning minions. I don't think that's unreasonable
Skull merchant is still constantly 3 gening from the beginning of the game, I'm yet to see one that doesn't, and protects them the whole game, solo q doesn't stand a chance against that, and I only solo q when I play survivor, we cannot communicate to coordinate enough to counter that. The whole design of her power being proxying areas was a terrible idea and again don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a redo of her powers design. The amount of people that dc against her because they don't want to deal with it/don't want an insanely long match is immense.
I disagree completely.
The point i made with nurse is pretty simple.The time you spend learning killers feels underwhelming.I think billy is the most difficult killer in the game to play well and get good value out of his power, and yet he is one of the weakest.Nurse and Blight are the only killers who feel rewarding to spend hours in and master.Huntress and artist may seem like they do,but getting cross map snipes is not what wins you games and its almost impossible against good players,oni is to map reliant and to reliant on getting his power.Nerfing nurse because 1000 people have mastered her and are destroying players less skilled than them(comp does fine vs nurse) is no reason to nerf her,with that line of thought just give sperate nerfs to SWF.
Knight is a hold w killer.If he drops a guard in a loop just run.Do it right and you don't get hunted.Exhaustion perks make his minions obsolete.If he is right in your face and you are at a weak structure don't expect not to get hit,any anti loop killer would hit you,why shouldn't knight.Its similar to artist but i would argue he is weaker.If you want to see his counterplay just play him extensively and watch what good survivors do.
3genning from the start as skull merchant in the current patch simply does not work against any halfway decent or coordinated team.Base regression is terrible,and there aren't really any good regression perks that you don't get by hooking or downing people.Her chase potential is amazing btw,people just don't know how to play her.
g
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Its just a way of coping.Survivors are dropping like flies without their precious dead hard.Sprint burst allows you to be tactical in your chase selection,Lithe and balanced can be countered by attentive killers,dh is an extra 4 seconds at best,a 50/50 in most cases and an extra life state at worst.
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@BooperDooper said:
Nurse obviously is very overpowered, can shut down chases in an instant, 4 man slug at 5 gens. I mean supaalf is on like.. what.. 175 streak with her??? I don't know if she needs a complete rework or a long cooldown between blinks while making her base speed faster or what but something needs to change.
Knight. The fact that you can essentially have 2 killers chasing you is insane, is he's in chase with you, his minion shouldn't also be chasing you, or they need a waaaay longer cooldown. I successfully avoid being downed by him or his minion, oh wait nevermind his minion is back here in 2 seconds. You can't loop him, you'll have killers on either side of you, and you can't hold w because he'll just quickly place down a minion in the distance. Either can't be chased by both or needs a long cooldown.
Skull merchant just needs a complete power rework. Having a power that revolves around proxying the survivors objectives is such an unfun power to go against of even play for that matter. She is weak as hell in chases as all she can do is m1, but she can stop people extremely well from being able to progress the game. Solo q does not stand a chance at being able to coordinate enough to get past her 3 gen strategy, people end up in 30+ minute matches of basically making a tiny amount of progress, all survivors can do is either, make little progress, die or do nothing, even a swf struggle against her and this tactic.
I'm also going to mention some weak killers here that could use some buffs, sadako, dredge, doctor, pig and plague, there more I'm sure but these are my tops ones I'd like to see do a little better.
Nurse requires a lot of practice and experience to do well with.People act like learning the muscle memory is all there is to her,thats just the skill floor,the bare minimum you need to achieve.She and blight are the only killer that truly respect your time,as learning to use their power properly is rewarding.Is there anything wrong with having such killers?Or do you want every difficult killer to be like billy,hardest killer to play and on the easiet to beat,what a joke.
Knight is unfun,i can agree with that but i wouldn't say he is broken.On maps like lerrys where you can just hold W his power is almost useless for example.There is counter play to it,that doesn't mean he wont down you eventually.Thats how the game is supposed to be played.You shouldn't be able to loop the killer for 2 minutes just because you looked behind you and waited properly.
Skull merchant stalling was nerfed,i don't get why you are crying so much.In fact the guy who has the highest winstreak on Skull merchant in Europe if not globally doesn't even camp with her and instead goes for chases.I can personally attest to that,her purple haste addon paired with STBFL or Bamb is disgusting.Breaking a 3 gen with virtually no regression in sight is not a difficult task.
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When i play survivor i don't concern myself with surviving as much as i do with having a good game.If i loop the killer for 5 gens that is a bigger W than escape 691.The same applies for making a cool play,or seemingly impossible endgame save.These moments is what makes survivor exciting for me,not holding m1 on gens like my life depends on it,hiding from killers,letting my teammeates to die just so i can earn an extra 7k bloodpoints.
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@Phasmamain said:
Bamboozle and boil over.
Bamboozle killers are predictable and make holding W even more prevalent since they won’t play a single window
Boil over gamers go to an unhookable spot and get mad when you slug them
To be fair most windows as an m1 killer either can't be player or are not worth playing if you have bamboozle.
If you bamb a TL thats a different story,but shack,long and short wall junggle gyms are all great places to use said perk.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3404445#Comment_3404445
who the hell cares about pips nowadays??
Who cares about bloodpoints?Once you get all the perks and characters you want there is nothing else to grind.Yeah you will need to replace some addons,offerings and items here and there but you get more bp than you consume.
Pips at least feel like a goal you can grind for especially if you need one more pip for the next grade.Getting an extra pip feels more meaningful then 5k bloodpoints that get spent on pieces of litter.
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@TonyXSplash said:
The Spirit is heavily reliant on her power because her base movement speed is too slow! The Spirit cannot mind game pallets with a 4.4m/s. So instead make her power recharge quicker. 15 seconds is way too much since survivors can pre drop a pallet and you have no choice but to stop Phasing and break the pallet and then wait another 15 seconds to use her power again.
The kill rate you see on spirit is literally because people only run MDR and Yakuyoke and add ons should not give too much power to the killer.
Please reduce her power recharge time.
Maybe from 15 seconds to 10 seconds?
Spirit is the most addon reliant killer in the game by virtue of how big her addonless gap is.
Ring gives her ridiculous mobility.Amulet gives her ridiculous duration and recharge.Both stack nicely on top of her power and together give her unparalled mobility outside of blight while still having an above average chase power.
That being said you remove those addons, and now you have a killer who can either use her power to catch up or you either use it to get a hit(Which as a 4.4 killer you NEED to),and remember you can force 50/50s vs spirit and if she fails she has to wait 10-15 more seconds.You CANNOT do both with one power charge unless you have her iri or purple addon,which is exactly why they are so strong.This places her somewhere in B tier imo,stronger than m1 killers cause she can eventually get a hit,weaker than proper killers.
Her basekit should be buffed and her ring slightly nerfed.
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@Annso_x said:
Well there's a lot of things in there that go both way:
Many killers don't tunnel even tho it makes them win = Many survivors don't gen rush even tho it makes them win
Many killers don't bring meta perks = Many survivors do the same
Killers who give hatch = Survivors who give kills (although I agree giving hatch is more common even if I haven't seen it happen in a while; but there's also a bunch of survivors who quickly get the gens done, open gates and leave asap when they get teammates who just bully the killer and show no intention of making the game advance so they can do it longer)
Also, survivors who give their items doesn't "only happen" bc the killer was nice to them. The majority of the time I see it happen it's the survivor who gives their item as an offering to ask for mercy (most often when they know they won't be able to get the gates open (happens to me all the time when I play Demo & have portals near the gates) ).
There's also things that survivors simply can't reciprocate: Being nice when someone DCs or someone is afk, although sometimes survivors give their items to afk killers, but bc they're afk they're not gonna know about it anyways. In that same vein of idea, there are things only killers can do to be nice but there are things only killers can do to be rude (let people bleed out, pretending to give hatch only to shut it in your face and then let you bleed out, pretending to farm and then kill everyone...).
I guess survivors could "play nice", which a lot of us actually do, but if you play too nice you're being a bad teammate to survivors who are trying to win, it's difficult to find the right balance.
The thing is, killers control the game, and therefore can be merciful in more ways. The goal for killers is to hurt survivors, but the goal of survivors is to do gens. If a killer spares you, he's friendly. If a survivor doesn't do gens, is emoting or is under a hook waiting for the killer, the killer will assume they're either bad, toxic or being a terrible teammate. Unless you're in a swf who all decide to kill yourselves (which is a thing), you can't stop the game from playing out. On the other hand, if a killer decides to farm, there's nothing survivors can do about it. Either farm, sit on gens until you've done them all or get killed (or DC), in any case the killer alone has decided to and can stop you from having a normal game experience, which isn't possible for survivors.
How are you going to prove you're being nice to a killer by running up to them and acting all "hey look i'm letting you kill me" when the killer doesn't need your permission and would have done it anyways? Most killers will just hit & hook you no questions asked, and claiming you did it on purpose in the post game chat is not going to come accross as nice. It's like when killers suddenly decide to farm bc they're clearly losing, thank you but we were clearly all going to escape anyways. If you don't get killed on purpose but sacrifice yourself at the end of the game, a lot of killers don't like that you're not leaving quickly and assume you died accidentally to the endgame collapse.
Anyways, a lot of words to say: it's an asymetrical game, of course both sides don't have the same means of showing they're being nice. (also saying "i would argue survivors go out of their way to make the game worse for killers" after claiming this isn't an us v them post is quite bold)
Surrendering and begging for mercy isn't a sign of good faith.You weren't in a position to do something annoying and went out of your way not to.You didn't do something kind at the expense of yourself.You are making an offering in which you have everything to gain,since the match is over either way.
Losing a game as killer and having to wait 2 minutes,or having to push everyone out while they sit there and sometimes even tbag is horrendous.I would not even call it toxic on the account of how often it happens,it feels like its just force of habbit to do so.Survivors still do go out of their way not to escape,and waste everyones time, its not a minority either,most survivors do this.
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@tippy2k2 said:
The hard part is that there's really no "mercy" a survivor can do for the killer to show good will or whatever (short of just letting themselves get killed I guess). Good etiquette for a survivor is more about what you're NOT doing than it is what you're doing (like bullying the killer, mocking the killer, etc).
You are right that a lot of survivors good etiquette is not doing certain actions but the vast majority don't refrain from doing any of them.I would argue the majority the killer playerbases follows at least one of the aforementioned self imposed rules while they play.
That being said i don't see survivors not abusing realm offerings,even though its incredibly disrespectful to send the killer to an obviously survivors sided map.And its not like they shy from doing it.Play killer on a friday night,more than half you games will have a map offering.Whats more,killers barely use them,and when they do the majority of times is to make an already off meta build work(scratch mirror on indoor map,good build vs pallets on gideon,trapper on maps with grass).
As mentioned in the original post,just leaving is another good etiquette survivors could follow,and yet again the majority want to be sent off.
Survivors are also notorious for abusing bugs and features before they get fiexed.Killers aren't saints either,but right now when merciless strom is bugged how many killers are running it?I see it once every 7-10 games,but thats anecdotal i guess.Now look back at boil over,and how many teams were bringing maps and staying in areas where they could not be hooked.It felt like every third game was one of those,and the perk itself was ran on half the playerbase.
@Shroompy said:
To me the reason why more killers give escapes than survivors give kills is the bloodpoint difference. Were talking 7000 BP (more if youre the obsession) youre missing out on if you dont escape, compared to roughly 1.5k if you let a Survivor go.
What about pips,letting a survivor go especially at iri grade is the difference between getting a pip or not.If you want to be technical you get a bonus of 2500 bp for not letting anyone escape + the hook and sacrifice + the bp for closing the hatch.The main thing however is the message conveyed,no one is playing survivors to farm bloodpoints,killers get way more.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3403474#Comment_3403474
In solo q, while we cant speak for everyone, most people did come prepared, but yes we agree it was a mess (we kinda miss it in a strange way).
Lets assume you got the PR proc but no one screamed because they let go before the hook, no info. What if deadmans procced but your on the opposite side of the map. Same with deadlock. Most the killer cast wouldn't be able to capitalize on that info well except the fact of "Heres where survivors are this second, theyre probably leaving or hiding now".
The killer is the one creating those situations and those perks are ment to counter them, and only that. Reassurance is only helpful against camping. It doesn't help in any other capacity, while Unbreakable does have other uses, its primarily an slugging deterrent and those other uses are niche (specifically thinking about flipflop, unbreak, and power struggle). OTR and DS are the deterrents to tunneling, but they do not deter it nearly as much as unbreakable deters slugging.
Agreed
Penti only realy became prominent with plaything. While we can see someone using that build, survivors would simply break the totems again once they noticed. Admittedly it would work wonders for the uncoordinated as everyone would be looking instead of working, but your stuck either guarding the totems or the gens if enough survivors figure out what your doing, not factoring rng of totem spawning. You would have also been unlikely to set up all 5 unless someone needed totems for a perk or rift as boons came out in a close timeframe and most would only break the hexes after penti came out.
For the first part, we're gona assume you wish to be super technical. In this assumption, you would be correct in that its slightly weaker. However, for those of us who have played for a long time, this slight weakening currently happening is MASSIVELY off set by the bonuses killers have gotten recently.
For the second half, we just plain disagree. Tunneling isn't the only viable strategy. Perks like pop and pain res still reward winning chases. Hooking survivors and harassing another still creates pressure. What is currently happening is that everyone who relied on stacking slowdown and kick meta will have a nice rough time and either adapt or sink. We're personally hoping a lot of them sink, but we're also spiteful little gremlins.
Pain resonance used to have a loud noise notification, telling you which gen had the most progress,aka where you needed to apply pressure,screaming was a cherry on top.You also just hooked a person.From both of these facts alone you already have enough information and areas to pressure,.Dms tells you when someone lets go of a gens,telling you when they start running away or going for an unhook.IF you knew how to use said perks,the information was beyond strong on top of the ridiculous slowdown.
Survivors perks are MEANT to be situational.Boons require you to find a totem and be within range of one when you need its effect.Prove does nothing if only one person completes a gen.Any means necessary doesn't work if the killer breaks pallets.The same concept applies to MOST perks.If you take away all perks in the game,killers would tunnel,camp and slug relentlessly,which is why it so happens that meta perks are situationally strong in these situations.
I think you don't have enough experience facing or using the pentimento ruin + build,which is understandable, it wasn't the most popular.There are two situations that can play out,survivors do the totems of they don't.If they don't they have to face the consequences of either the strongest regression perk that ever existed or if they stop midway through have to deal with 30% slowdown,both ideal situations.If they do totems doing 2-3 totems which are slowed down by thrill adds up to a generators worth of progress,and this is on top of the massive travel time.
5 stacks of pentimento is irrelevant. The first token does everything you want the perk to do,everything else is a cherry on top.Plaything is a mediocre combo,since the survivors can just ignore the totems,the penalty isn't that big,especially for a swf.
You need to kill a survivor fast or you lose the game.The average match lasts 10 minutes,if you don't have a kill or something better(multiple people on death hook would be an example) by the halfway point you lost.Killing someone is the strongest strategy the killer can employ by the simple fact that,in a 1 v4 the killer is overwhelmed,while in a 1 v 3 the killer is the one in control.By having a hook and chasing another survivor no one is doing gens.If you can incapacitate 2 survivors(Hook or slug) and you find the third the game is as good as concluded.You can always camp to guarantee a 2k etc.
Now having 3 hooks and one kill,unless the survivors messed up massively is a different story.You don't want to hard tunnel the first survivors you meet unless the survivors allow you to do so,an example being them unhook very early with you nearby,why start a new chase when you can just conclude the old one.
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@smartemarte said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3403498#Comment_3403498
about wraith ...
you can't see him if you're behind a wall, you can't hear anything if he's using the addon and you're on a gen ..... did you even read the post ?
wraith has a REALLY loud breathing sound,its impossible not to hear him,and no addon affects his breathing.His counterplay is pretty simple look for gens with visibility you can see him shimmering ,after that once in chase just get good.He is a regular killer with almost no power to turn the tides.You can abuse every trick in the book to waste as much of his time as possible.
Its kinda like saying legion is overpowered for injuring people easily,thats what his power does he still needs to get the finishing blow with little to no help from his power.Wraith's power is designed to get the first hit easily,the bell only starts tolling once his unlocking is half way done,followed by a movement speed boost,if he uncloaks near you and the bell is what alerts you of his presence you would have gotten hit anyway,
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Blights ring is not even his strongest addon,and for it to do anything you need to get hit by a rush.I'm not saying its not strong,but C33 takes priority in getting nerfed,its way more opressive.On top of that adrenaline vile kinda gives you a better ring.
Myres perma tier 3 is weak.He gets no pressure,and before he gets tier 3 atleast 3 gens should have popped if not more.At that point insta downing does nothing.Once again there is a stronger addon to complain about,tombstone piece which deserves more attention.
Huntress only has one hatched,you dodge it and she is a 110 no power killer.She also has to reload A LOT which slows her down massively.Its downsides make it a very fair addon.She also can camp about the same with or without it if the player is good.
Regarding wraith... really?You can see the guy running across the map,you can hear his breathing,he makes a sound when he uncloackes so he should never get a grab,and after he gets his little jumpscare he becomes a regular killer with no power.
Your post screams lack of experience.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/372556/killer-is-not-the-easiest-its-ever-been
We're gonna throw our opinion here.
Most of that unbalanced mess in the beginning favored survivors. Moris required hooking (when we started), which could be damned hard with infinites, instant repairs, going from slug to healthy syringes, and the like.
While that combo could work, there were times where it wouldn't simply because they couldn't capitalize on that info. Had both an artist and spirit fail using something like that because they couldn't find or catch the survivors.
Nurse maybe nerfed, but the rest of the cast? The rest got better. And before you say something along the lines of "only these killers are viable" no. Everyone is viable.
Reassurance doesn't fully kill camping, though you won't find sympathy from us on that front anyway, and your correct in that OTR is effective as DS for tunneling. Which is very little. Killer wants to tunnel, they WILL tunnel and get you unless your better than them, or the gates are powered.
The kick meta was worse in our opinion. You could stealth the shpr and Deadman combo, could disable the ruin tinker undying combo, couldn't do beep about the kick meta except try and rush critical gens. Even competent teams would be troubled and a LOT of people found it annoying.
Slowdown doesn't help end chases anyway. It gives you a longer window to start and finish a chase, but if you require that huge window from stacking 4 slowdowns, that's on you not every killer. In addition those slowdowns being changed are still viable (res requires a lot more thinking than it should but a quarter gen isn't to be ignored)
If you want to be super technical, then maybe your correct in that killer isn't the easiest it's EVER been, but it's SO SO much easier now than before.
Moris could insta kill people in the same patch gens could be completed instantly.Both got nerfed in the same patch.You are right that overall it favored survivors,but they needed to come in prepared,and in solo queue didn't matter.The game was simply a mess back then,the sided who brought stronger stuff was massively favored compared to now.
So the build doesn't work because the killer can't get downs?How do you fail to capitalize on the info?You know the gen with most progress on it,if its white no one is on it,if its red someone is working on it.You also have a hook you can return to if you don't find anyone?The build was straight up busted in its prime,3 of those perks got massive nerfs.
No perk stops one side from doing something.Ds and Otr don't stop tunneling,ub only stops slugging once,reassurence has its limits,but these perks punish the killer heavily in those situations.Getting an extra health state while getting tunneled,preventing the killer from securing an extra hook state by timing reassurence right,one guy running ubreakable picking everybody up once a game etc.
The kick meta sucked,it punished killers for engaging and winning chases,since you couldn't get value from you perks.You had to defend your gens tightly, and be territorial cause a single tap can disable half your build.Eruption was indeed disgusting as aforementioned.
Ruin+undying was a strong core,that only got better with pentimento + support hex(Thrill or retri for nurse).Its a damned if you do damned if you don't build.Ruin was ridiculous for as long as it was up so you couldn't ignore the hexes,thrill and retri further punished you for cleasing the hexes,and pentimento made you do even more totems or suffer a heavy slowdown.
Killer is in a more healthy spot indeed,but the overall loss in strength killer perks have suffered have made slightly weaker than before,with the only viable strategy being to tunnel since your perks no longer reward you for creating pressure or winning chases.
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Bad bait.If its so easy show us one of your wonderful games in which you are not using any "underhanded tactics" and destroying a good team.
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@BooperDooper said:
Yes killer has had those nerfs and survivors has had their buffs. But I think you forget or were not their for changes survivors faced to make killer fairer
Old keys/hatch where multiple survivors could escape without all gens being completed,
Old ds, where you didn't have to be hooked first to use it, you could just use it when you were picked up
Old dead hard (aka dead hard for distance)
Sabotaged hooks wouldn't respawn
Old buffed boil over, basically couldn't hook anyone if they were in a 2 story building
Base buff to killer kicking/gen regression
Buffs to haemorrhage/mangled so heals are reset and slow
RPD has been reworked to make it more balanced
Eyrie of crows was reworked to make it more balanced
Infinites have been removed on multiple maps
Coming up, nerf to coh and self care healing and medkits
I would very much argue killer is in the best place it has ever been, is the game killer sided? Idk, but it certainly is much better for killers nowadays than it was years ago, and it's definitely harder for survivors than it was years ago, not to say these changes weren't necessary, as these changes very much were.
When old keys and infinites were roaming the old moris allowed killers to either instantly kill survivors,or to do so after a measly hook.Boil over is in the same boat as eruption,a perk which had no business receiving the buff it did.Eyrie is still a terrible map.Every map released and reworked was terrible for killer.RPD is only good for stealth killers and thats about it.Its the best bodyblock map in the game.It has multiple god pallets which are easy to chain.It doesn't lack strongs windows,gens are difficult to defend besides that one 3gen(which you can't cause you need to venture into the map to chase people).
CoH and medkits were nerfed at the cost of all remaining regression perks.We still got Deadlock ig,im curios how long it will last.
I don't think killer is weak right now,it's definitely the strongest it's ever been for m1 killers,but for the top 10 strongest killers in the game i wouldn't say so.
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@Jago said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402626#Comment_3402626
All of these fixes were made to balance things up. Killer is more "enjoyable to play" thanks to those qol. + you over react to it. Ds still good, and BT has been made basekit. BNPs are still in the game. Prove thyself and gen rush perks still in the game.
I won't talk about solo / poor matchmaking because this is the audience that is suffering the most. DC, level difference between players in the team, trolls, etc is a problem, but it relies on players and BHVR system.
For SWF / good players, it is still and will always be survivor sided. Stop being delusional. As long as there are no perks & item restrictions & map rework, survivors got it easy.
Great points.
It feels like people forgot survivors got a top 5 perk made basekit.
Ds and OtR are the only perks to combat tunneling that you YOURSELF can equip.Calling either of them bad is straight up wrong.They each shine depending on playstyle and build.(Ds is best paired with DH,OtR is better with sprint burst).
I also agree that solo games are depressing.But just because i lose the majority of my solo games doesn't mean i blame it on balance when we collectively as a team performed poorly.The game shouldn't handhold us,there have been plenty of times when i get matched with 3 amazing solos and we destroy the killer to the point he thinks we are a SWF.All i takes is one bad survivor to take a group down,but balancing around said survivors is not sustainable.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402982#Comment_3402982
How long a Gen should be done for you to consider good for killers?
Its not about length.If you make gens take longer to repair you not only make the game boring,but reward camping which is even worse.
The current,soon to die meta of CoB,Overcharge required a very boring playstyle due to the fact that their entire value relied on survivors not tapping generators and not rewarding killers for being aggressive and going for chases.
Perks long gone did the opposite,they rewarded you for pressuring survivors off gens(Ruin),or finishing chases(Pop,Pr),being healthier and more skill expressive.Due to the perks being stronger,you could make up for the faster to complete generators,through skilled endeavors which imo made killer easier for better players.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402600#Comment_3402600
Why,cause the gens got an extra 10 seconds to complete,while all the gen regression perks were butchered one after the another?You gave us a bigger bucket,but if you can't empty the water you will still drown.They also introdcued a bunch of perks to speed up the gens.
It has been [0] days since a killer player has ignored the reduced on-hit sprint, reduced on-hit cooldown, increased action speed and increased bloodlust accumulation of 6.1.
Because they are largely irrelevant.They made m1 killers a tiny bit stronger,thats cool and all but they will stile lose vs competent teams.The buffs are also a lot more placebo then you might think.It's why brutal strength is a weak perk,doesn't matter if you break a pallet a bit quicker if they still make it to another window or pallet.
The buffs also barely impact any relevant killer.Yeah the buffs to my blight that can play around half the pallets,that doesn't give a damn how far you are from him,and that doesn't even m1 are crazy.And its not just blight in particular,nearly every single strong killer barely benefits from these buffs including but not limited to Huntress,Nurse,Spirit(with MDR),artist,oni,plague,Phead,Hag come to mind of the top of my head as killers who couldn't care less about the minimal buffs received.
But sure,clown can get an extra hook stage vs a good team after he broke every pallet on the map and saved a whopping 2 seconds!!!
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402800#Comment_3402800
Games with a DC are thrown out completely. It's likely that the KR is even higher.
I'm sure if the KR was 39%, there would be constant complaininh and citing of it as proof of the imbalance.
Likewise, to quote you, "So are you literally not going to argue any point?"
I felt like we were going nowhere so i chose to comment on the most interesting point.
As mentioned previously,i fully agree that Eruption was a ridiculous perk and a mistake,I would appreciate if you could stop bringing it up since survivors had similarly powerful perks as previously mentioned og ds and MoM that broke the game in their prime and i took a while before people realized just how good it is.
Overcharge and Call of brine are indeed a strong combo,howver calling them stronger is a disingenuous, eruption could compete with the original slowdown perks which it's why it got nerfed, if its buffed state was in the game pre 6.10 it wouldn't have even been the best perk at that time since more consistent and strong options were available.
Dms in its prime blocked gens for a ridiculous amount if you could proc it,Pr was 2 perks in one,Pop allowed you to strategically defend generators without wasting to much time,ruin allowed you to amplify your pressure tenfold.If you could constantly juggle survivors and chases you could hamper progress to such a ridiculous degree its no exaggeration to call it the best slowdown perk in the game as long as it lasted and if you were skilled in using it,not to mention it singlehandedly kept totem builds together(undying,pentimento),now almost no one is running hexes what a coincidence.
Deadhard is weaker vs m1 killers and stronger vs m2 killers,you seem to agree with that statement.That is exactly why the perk keeps on seeing use,and why its a problem(which is just about to get nerfed btw),its current state makes it stronger against the only killers that can compete.Yeah new deadhard is worse vs doctor,but if you were losing to him in the first place then thats rough.
I still vehemently believe that DS is still a strong and worthwhile perk.I run it every game I play survivors but thats irrelevant.Its one of the two perks you can run to prevent yourself from getting tunneled,that in of itself makes it valuable.Its contender is OtR which i would argue is stronger than old DS but thats irrelevant,if you get hit of hook since no teamates are taking hits for you after unhooking with the killer nearby,or you don't run sprint burst to get away from the killer thats on you ig.Ds howver not only gives an alternative,not only does it allow you to stack it with OtR,it's also the best anti tunneling perk to pair with Deadhard for obvious reasons,guaranteeing two extra health states, potentially three,and this remains unchanged in the upcoming update.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402795#Comment_3402795
"I think hard tunneling someone off of first hook is really a detriment to you as a Killer. You'll never get better and eventually, you'll run into people who can deal with it and that will be a truly miserable experience."
You got it wrong. Tunnelling is how you beat strong teams.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402799#Comment_3402799
Not really. Once you hit the mmr soft cap, you don't get harder opponenets anymore. They give you basically anyone.
What if I am a good looper that also tunnels?
People still finding tunneling toxic continues to amuse me.It's a strategy,and it is indeed required to a certain extent beat good teams.That doesn't mean your first 3 hooks should be on the same person(unless they mess up and the situation calls for it)
The way you play,and the results you got are waranted,there is sadly little incentive in spreading hooks.However as other poeple have already mentioned you need to refine your strategy.Proxing and straight up camping a hook can work if have a good reason to defend an area,however its usually better to just chase multiple people and resume tunneling the next time you meet your first hook.This gives you the opportunity of finding an easier target,it allows you to generate more pressure and you don't put all your eggs into one basket.
Of course everything is situational.Don't hesitate to return back to the hook and resume tunneling if the survivors unhook 3 seconds after hooking or in your face.This is also why blight is disgusting as a killer,man can chase someone across the map and still pressure the unhook.
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@Brokenbones said:
Say it together everyone
Gens that are blocked do not lose progress but can still be set to regress when unblocked
...Not catchy enough but I'll work on it
But jolt does lower the progress of a blocked generator
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402778#Comment_3402778
Survivors received hmmm, Left Behind, Overzealous and uh, oh yeah, SOLE SURVIVOR as gen speed-up in 6.1.0. All very meta picks that I'm sure you see a lot of.
In that same patch, Overcharge and Eruption were massively buffed. PGTW and Ruin got nerfed and replaced by something stronger.
DS was honestly fine with the change to make it no longer work in the EGC. Making it only 3 seconds of stun absolutely killed any use the perk had.
It does not turn windows into 50/50's. If it does, that's because you are a bad Killer. Pallets, sure, I could see that. Also, it's GOOD that it's better against top tier Killers. Those Killers need counters.
Unfortunately for you and your narrative, the official stats from BHVR show that the Survivors have a 39% escape rate.
The escape rates is a very poor metric to go by.
The easiest way to disprove it is to simply look at the top performing killers and you can see big outliers that have no business outperforming other killers.There is no way dredge and sadako are stronger at the dread top 5% mmr.
Another important note is how is 5% mmr even calculated.Does it only count games where everyone is in that mmr bracket,or any game with a single player in it.Does it only count the performance of said players,regardless of opponent?Because a missmatch can easily skew said statistics,espicially considering the poor matchmaker.
How are Dcs handled.I know they don't count the DC itself but what about the rest of the survivors? Even if the game is indeed discarded,you can't do the same for games where survivors give up or give up on hook.
Its also important to note that its easy for a killer to secure a kill even in a losing match.Hooking far away from a gate,instadown,noed,Pig's traps,Huntress and trickster ability to go through healthstates,legion insta down etc.If the killer messes up they will still probably secure a 1k,but if a team does screws up,which can easily happen considering not everyone is in a 4 man,and suddenly the killer got an easy 4k.It also doesn't help that preventing hatch is a lot easier than preventing the killer from securing a kill.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402739#Comment_3402739
So the game is Killer-sided for the VAST majority of players.
Look,whenever i play solo queue and i lose the majority of my games,I look at the perfomance of my team and can agree that we should lose it.
No one is on gens,chases end in less then 30 seconds.Survivors don't know how to deal with a camping killer and just crouch near them etc.
Those players deserve to lose,and the game should never be balanced around such poor decision making and lack of skill.This isn't even limited to solo queue,to many SWF will all die to save that one guy.To many people follow around a killer for their sick falshlight save.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402600#Comment_3402600
10 extra seconds on every gen, adding up to 50 extra seconds minimum.
Overcharge, Call of Brine and Eruption were literally the closest we've seen to an uncounterable meta.
DS was killed off, OTR doesn't stack with BT. If you get hit off of hook, it does nothing for you.
DH got heavily nerfed in that patch. No more DH for distance, no more OP DH.
This patch enabled ANY Killer to hold an unbreakable 3-gen even if they played horribly.
Oh, and they nerfed Survivors Sprint Burst after being hit, decreased the Killer's time to recover after a Basic Attack, sped up pallet breaking speeds etc etc
So are you literally not going to argue any point?
The 10 extra seconds gained mean nothing when surviors recieved shiny new tools to speed up said progress,and all the killer slowdown power level went down as a result.Keep in mind as well that not all generators are equal.The first 2 gens that pop are most of the time unstoppable anyway.If you were going to 3 gen,every other gen on the map might as well not exist.
Eruption was indeed stupid,the same way original
ds was,or MoM.It was an anomaly and an incredibly broken perk,nothing else.
Ds is still strong,it's in top 15 most picked perks,and i see atleast one every game.If the killer is camping don't unhook and allow they to tunnel?Use the brand new reassurance,or bring ds and dh and tank 3 extra hits.
Dh got nerfed vs m1 killers.It's still strong vs virtually any meta killer since their attack are predictable and typically have a narrow window to down the survivors.Considering it's high pickrate i would argue it's far from heavily nerfed,and i would argue its heavily buffed vs Nurse and blight,since you tank a hit and get a speedboost on top.The original problem the perk presented is also still in the game,the ability to DH to a pallet and be uncountable,or to do it to a window and turn it into a 50/50.
Not any killer,and maybe vs solos at best. As mentioned previously,yes those 2 abominations could,but if trickster was 3gening your 5k hour swf then i'm afraid I hate to tell you a secret.
The changes were cute in making m1 killers 5% stronger,and look where they are now,the same punching bags for survivors to abuse.The only killers that could stand a chance got nerfed.Blight,nurse and spirit don't want to hold a 3 gen they want to get rewarded for chases,thats what their power promots.
@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402600#Comment_3402600
DH for Distance is gone, 5 second DS is gone, Exhastion Perk stacking is gone, pallet and window vaccuum is gone, double pallets are gone, pallet spawns have been seriously nerfed and reduced, Deadlock exists as a very strong perk, etc.
You're missing quite a few key changes that happened in the game. Also, you literally admitted that old DBD was so Survivor Sided:tm: that it was "an unbalanced mess" (which I think puts it generously).
Nurse and Blight may be harder to win with now compared to their hay day (and for Blight, that's when RuinDyingTinkerer was around), but on average (meaning across every killer), it is objectively easier now than it was.
Sincerely, someone who played through and suffered through the early days.
You missed my entire point.Back when all those ridiculous things existed moris allowed you to skip sacrifice stages and kill a survivor earlier than they should.The game was a mess,it was technically survivor sided,but if one sided wanted a free win there wasn't a lot you could do.
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@Pulsar said:
???
The game was at its most Killer-sided directly after 6.1.0
Undisputably the most Killer-sided it's ever been.
Why,cause the gens got an extra 10 seconds to complete,while all the gen regression perks were butchered one after the another?You gave us a bigger bucket,but if you can't empty the water you will still drown.They also introdcued a bunch of perks to speed up the gens.
Because Ds was nerfed? OTR i would argue is stronger vs most killers,pair it with basekit bt on top.
All the stronger killers (untill next patch ig) got nerfed in one way or another.Dh right now allows you to get a free speed boost vs them since their abilities are predictable.Nurse got heavily nerfed no debating there.
All the maps released are reworks are terrible as well.
Holding a 3gen i would argue isn't as strong as chase orietend regression(but it might be a playstyle difference).
But hey m1 killers are 5% stronger,they might get one extra hook vs a competent team!