imakepeoplehateme
imakepeoplehateme
About
- Username
- imakepeoplehateme
- Joined
- Visits
- 492
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402096#Comment_3402096
Just tested it with a friend
So first of you were right. The blocked gen did not lose progress cause of pain res.
The interresting thing is that the next highest unblocked gen did get hit. I had no idea it worked like this! Pain Res looked for the highest progressed gen, saw the blocked one, skipped it and when the the highest progressed after that
I have no idea this is intended or not but it is kinda a funny interaction. Thanks for letting me learn something new
Yeah,it seems to be looking for an available,non blocked gen to proc on.Im curios if it can pop a gen in the same frame it gets blocked.Glad we were able to confirm a common interaction!
-
@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402083#Comment_3402083
It does, you can test it if you want
It does tie in nicely with my earlier hot take that the community is not as knowledgeable about the game as they think they are.
DbD is a surprisingly complex game. I check in with the wiki constantly and i still get loads of stuff wrong from time to time
Back when pain res used to have a loud noise notification,i had never seen it go off on my deadlocked gens.It might have gotten changed,i might be missremembering things idk.
https://streamable.com/ic759l i even got a video for you mate.The burden of proof is on you at this point.
-
@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402078#Comment_3402078
You are wrong about deadlock
A blocked gen won't regress at a rate of 0.25 charges per second but any other form of damage still aplies.
Things like PR, Jolt, Eruption will damage a blocked gen when they trigger
I know jolt works on blocked generators,but as far as i know pain res doesn't.Interesting point if it does
-
@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402063#Comment_3402063
Ofcourse scourge hooks are a hinderance. How is go to a specific hook vs pick whatever hook you like not a hinderance?
Yes, if you only go after one survivor it's worse but as i said before in my hottakes going for only one survivor is something that wins the game on it's own against bad survivors and loses you the game against stronger ones. All it takes is a single (!) Hook on a second one to bring it back on par
You also keep bringing up deadlock and i don't think you realise how it works. The deadlocked gen will still lose 25% of it's progress.
And while it is possible that a gen pops right before a hook and the next highest progress is less then 25% but that's a good thing. If that happens the survivors aren't doing the optimal strat of spreading out. If survivors play worse to counter your perk it's still a win for you
You cannot regress a blocked generator by any means.I'm bringing up deadlock because its the strongest and most consistent perk remaining for killers to slow down the game,not running it in favor of scurge hook is straight up sabotaging your chances of winning.
Most survivors do not split on 3 different gens at the start of a match unless they spawn separately, at which point it's the same bad luck as shack window facing a strong tile,good luck dealing with it.Its also not a good thing to lose a gen,and have another gen at 90% after your first chase.That almost half the objective completed right there.
Hard tunneling is dumb,but you still need to find an opportune moment to tunnel.If you get 6 hooks and no one is dead the game is either over,or you are playing bad survivors.
-
@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402034#Comment_3402034
And there is the number one pitfall people make when judging the new pain res. Who says you need to spend all your tokens before someone is dead? It isn't like Grim embrace where nothing happens untill everyone is hooked.
It is also more consistant. With old pain res every scourge hook you miss is 15% you will never get. With the new one if you miss the first hook but get the second you still get full vallue. I haven't even talked about the time you save from not having to worry about scourge hooks once you got your token from a survivor
It's also very unlikely you will have to kill a survivor on a scourge hook so that ups the consistancy too. Very rarely will you have less then 4 scourge hooks
Here a example
Hook survivor A: 25% regression (10% more then before)
Hook survivor B: 50% regression (20% more then before)
Hook survivor A again: 50% regression no scourge hook needed(5% more then before)
They make a mistake and you're able to tunnel A of hook: 50 % regression no scourge hook needed and thus not lost (10% less then before)
First dead at hook 4 so not spreading your hooks at all, ahead of current PR except at the very end and you needed to find only half the scourge hooks you needed with old pr. Sidegrade, arguably a buff.
By hardcore tunneling i mean loading into a match with the idea of hooking the same survivor 3 times first no matter what. If survivors give you the oppertunity to get someone out asap you obviously always take it but it's just that. A oppertunity you look for. Not something you try to force.
You are talking about scurge hooks as if they are a hinderence,and not having to go to one is a good thing.
If you are tunneling someone you only get one scurge hook prock ,and if you are unfurtunate enough for the first gen to pop before you make it to your first hook,the second most progressed gen can get blocked by Deadlock and now you get nothing.This also applies if 3 survivors teamed up on a gen(which you may or not may know).Losing your only proc /person is a huge hinderance.
On top of that you cannot trigger it while tunneling,and if you chose to spread hooks you may not make it to a hook,or get value out of it(blocked gen,recently completed).
If you chose to save them for the end,you have 3 procs of 75% vs 6-9 of 15%.Which isn't a big difference however keep in mind,if you chase a previously scurge hooked person you no longer get the regression,and this gives the survivors an opportunity to pop the last gen.You are also taking a huge risk in not using your procs as quickly as possible,as the game might take an unexpected turn.With the current pr you don't have to worry about any of that and you still keep your procs for the endgame.
Now don't get me wrong,i don't think the perk is dead or anything,i just believe it will undoubtedly be worse as it now longer rewards you with regression for each successful chase,instead its a scuffed old Pop(walking to a scurge hook wastes time same as walking to a gen to pop it,you don't chose the gen to pop,you get significantly less regression 25% of progress,you don't get it every hook)
In my opinion people will just run deadlock,and maybe pair it wil jolt,corrupt,thana or DMS depending on the killer and synergy and the rest will be endgame,chase and info.Gen slowdown is dead
-
@Sonzaishinai said:
Pain res change is a sidegrade and arguably a buff, not a nerf
It's not the devs but the community that is clueless and out of touch with the game they play. The amount of times the community was wrong and still pretends it knows better is mindblowing.
Chase/macro oriented skull merchant is fun to play
No matter how many hours you have or how good your winstreaks are you can't tell how a new perk will perform without actually playtesting it. Overcome and Bloodrush are perfect examples of this. Everybody went nuts over these perks untill it went live and they were never used. Ties back to the community not being as smart as they think they are
4 slowdown perks is weaker then 2-3 with a info or chase perk. No amount of slowdown will help if you don't find/down survivors
Hardcore tunneling, as in first 3 hooks on the same survivor, is not the most effecient way to play the game. It's a cheese strat that gets shut down if the survivor team knows what to do. Most of the genrush complaints are cause of killers who tunnel at the wrong time. Kill by hook 4-5 and tactical slugging are the most effecient strats. If you watch any streamer and you'll see that more often then not they slug for pressure atleast once if not more in their close matches
Pain Res is nerfed,due to its inconsistency and requirement of mixing hooks.Spreading hooks is sadly not a good strategy,it's almost always a mistake to have one hook on each survivor,before someone is dead.You also need to keep in mind while spreading said hooks,that you need to make it to a scurge hook,there needs to be an available gen to hit(not blocked by deadlock,or popped recently,or a gen you don't care about defending).You also can't trigger it over and over again and have a very oppressive last gen defense.
Skull merchant with her purple addon,paired with STBFL / Bamboozle is indeed slept on and very strong.
4 slowdown on most killers is indeed weaker,but i would argue it depends what killer you are playing.Blight for example,doesn't need anti loop and he is the info perk due to how fast he can traverse the map.Other great examples include the doctor,and artist(if you are not using her hands addon).
Depends on what you mean by hardcore tunneling.If you hook a survivor,and 2 seconds later they get unhooked,going for them is not a bad play.Camping for them,or going across the map to find them however is a different story.
-
@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401726#Comment_3401726
Dude... precisely because now you receive DH when being unhooked you would be tunneled as the best way to avoid for you to get it is just hitting you the moment you touch ground, as you would lose basekit Endurance and won't be able to use DH later in the chase because the Deep Wound. So, you either hard tunnel every single survivor you hook, or they would get DH. What I didn't understand there?
And no, non of those things are gone as CoH would still give infinite fast healing as before. Self healing was a problem, but was not the problem, overall healing times was. It won't matter if 2 or 3 survivors need to waste time to heal if that time is even less than what would take you to go from one gen to another or break a pallet and catch up with the survivor.
But hey, who knows, maybe this turns out to be the best balancing patch of the history.
I don't think you understand that solo queue players are not and will not coordinate heals.Bad players won't or they will do it poorly so it doesn't matter.These line up with my point that kill rates will rise,since most players will find it difficult to heal themselves,and they will waste time.
CoH is only strong if a team can abuse it,which they will ofcourse.But this lines up exactly with my previous point,with killer regression gone this is an overall buff to strong teams,and a nerf to the casual audiance,and solo queue which will in turn lower the killrates overall.
Regarding Deadhard you can pair it with Decisive,so the killer either eats Ds and you still got Dh for effectively 3 life states,or you get to keep your DH for later.The only difference being you can't use it first chase,so its still a strong perk(which keep in mind only good survivors can get value out of it consistently)
-
@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401725#Comment_3401725
So your whole post is irrelevant...
And when you don't know perks, you seem like new player, so this is simply skill issue, nothing to do with balancing the game.
These types of people can't form their own opinion. They heard a streamer,friend or twitter comment say these arguments and they just distribute it without even being able to make their case.
-
@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401463#Comment_3401463
Yeah, with healing as low as 4 seconds with CoH, DH being the exact same problem as before unless you hard tunnel every single hooked survivor, no effective regression and gens getting done in 4-5 minutes max while you are breaking the pallet number 11 out of 30 I'm sure most of the killers are going to do soooo good in this patch.
I think you misunderstood the changes.Dh is gives to the unhooked person,not unhooker,they changed that.
The kill rates btw will increase at lower levels of play(the majority of the playbase) since CoH and deahard singlehandedly won countless games.The amount of games a boon placed in an hard to reach spot gave the team unlimited heals,the amount of chases extended by 30 seconds due to a deadhard,all these things are now gone.And bad players are not the most gen inclined either.
Meanwhile competent killers facing equally skilled opponents are boned,but hey we didn't nerf billy so everyone is praising the upcoming patch.
-
If you struggle finding sneaky survivors nowhere to hide, whisperers or barbecue and chili are potential perks to look into
My biggest advice however would be to just play more,since you will eventually start facing seasoned players,who don't find the thought of wasting 30 minutes appealing.Aditionally you don't need to defend every single generator on the map,focus on a couple few which are close by and defendable,don't be afraid to give generators up and use them simply as a means of finding survivors.
-
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401126#Comment_3401126
"One of the best campers in the game..."
...are we playing the same Knight? They are FAR better campers than him... his power isn't even that good at camping, only scaring Survivors away who are unaware.
I'm mostly referring to his ability to proxi camp a hook,while still keeping survivors busy.If there is any generator within 50~ meters you can pressure it or you know where a survivors is you can make them waste 12-24 seconds.Bonus points if you get a hit and they need to heal.
Survivors also have to make a quick decision of outrunning the guards or going for the unhook to despawn the patrol(this also gives you a brief opportunity to grab them).
-
Not the worst,but spirit goes from the 3rd strongest killer in the game to a below average one if you exclude her addons.Her power lastly barely enough to catch up to a survivor,after that you have to wait 15 seconds to use as anti loop .Unless you are close to a survivor you have to use it either for mobility or anitloop,unless you have her ring or amulet.
-
Outside of map of the realm becoming basekit knight doesn't really need any change.He is already a very strong killer if used correctly.He can guarantee a down on someone eventually with his strong antiloop,he is one of the best campers in the game,he can bypass bodyblockers while tunneling by haunting said survivors,allowing you to both pass through them and keep them busy for 12-24 seconds.
-
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3400247#Comment_3400247
There's very few good gen regression/defense perks left. And the couple that are left are already starting to see complaints.
Lets look at the perks for gen defense at this point:
- Call of Brine
- Corrupt Intervention
- Dead Man's Switch
- Deadlock
- Eruption
- Grim Embrace
- Hex: Huntress Lullaby
- Hex: Pentimento
- Hex: Ruin
- Jolt
- Merciless Storm
- Oppression
- Overcharge
- Pop goes the Weasel
- Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain
- Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance
- Thanatophobia
Now lets look at the ones that are, after the next patch, are useless, or going to be useless, and why.
- Call of Brine - Default gen regression is 0.25 charges per second (a gen is 90 charges) CoB makes that 0.3125 charges per second. Which means to have a full 89 second gen regress basekit takes 356 seconds. And with CoB will now take 284.8 seconds. What a complete joke of a perk now.
- Eruption - Keeping eruption at 10 % total was a good change, but the reason eruption used to be strong, was because landing it, meant you downed a survivor, and if you hit survivors with it, you block them from repairing for around how long it would take you to hook the survivor you just downed, and start running over to the gen you are on. Now all it does is save you 9 seconds off the gen they were on, and show their aura. Meaning if you go for the downed survivor, you they will regain that 9 seconds before you even hook them, and the aura reading is useless. It only encourages slugging builds really, and the setup for it is too long for it to be useful now.
- Grim Embrace - What a complete joke of a perk, after hooking each survivor, you block every gen for 40 seconds and get to see where the obsession is. All this does, when it even actually activates in a situation that you want it to (I.E. The last survivor you chased isn't your obsession) it is super short and easy to just hide it out. Because you are blocking every single gen, so what else are survivors going to do? It technically saves you time, but it saves you time in a way that doesn't really benefit you and is easily countered. At BEST the perk is going to let you chase and down a single survivor without having gen progress happen which isn't really going to make much of a difference in a 12 hook game.
- Hex: Huntress Lullaby - Another complete joke of a perk, all it does is hurt low tier survivors. But even then, it takes so long to build up to being powerful, that by the time you do, the perk is already gone anyway. Compare the build up of this perk, with the build up of devour hope and you'll realize how useless this perk is.
- Hex: Ruin - Similar to CoB, base regression is simply too weak, maybe if base regression was stronger this would be good, but its too weak for what little power it gives, and on top of that, it can be cleansed. MAYBE if this wasn't a Hex perk, it might be decent for some passive regression, but that's still a big maybe.
- Merciless Storm - Completely joke of a perk, any decent survivor is hitting those skill checks, and even then if they don't the punishment is basically nothing, you get barely enough time to walk over to the gen and chase them off, but again, they can just hide out the perk, and now you either spend time looking for them, and the other 3 survivors finish gens, or you leave, and the survivor finishes the gen anyway.
- Oppression - This perk is another one that MIGHT be decent, if it didn't have some massive cooldown. Why does this perk even HAVE a cooldown at all? At most the cooldown for this thing should be 30 seconds, but even that is pushing it IMO. In general though, good survivors are hitting that skill check anyway, and as mentioned before, base regression sucks anyway, so the only real benefit is the skill check.
- Overcharge - Base regression sucks, and you are making it suck even more? And then its barely as good as the new CoB. The skill check again, will be hit easily by good survivors, and the worst part is, it doesn't even counter gen tapping because the skill check will "follow" the survivor, and allow them to hit it while they are getting chased off the gen, meaning you can't even use it to counter gen tapping. MAYBE if the skill check didn't follow the survivor, and it didn't start at < 100% regression it might be DECENT.
- Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain - With these new changes, survivors are more likely to just stay injured anyway. But this perk is so easily countered. As soon as you realize the killer has it, you just heal up, and then force the killer to hit you by body blocking for someone, and now it is gone. Even then, 16% penalty makes a 90 second gen take 107 seconds, or 17 seconds longer, which in the grand scheme of things, isn't that much longer, especially when there is an easy way to avoid it and remove it.
- Thanatophobia - Complete joke of a perk since its nerf. It is only good on really 1 killer, and the only reason it is good on that 1 killer (plague) is to basically force survivors to cleanse and actually give you a power. It is damn near required on her otherwise you are just an m1 killer with 4 injured survivors the whole game and then what is the point. Even with 3 survivors injured though, it gives 6% penalty to repairs, which makes a 90 second gen take 95.75 seconds. What a complete joke of a perk, all for 3 injured survivors? And if you get the 4th, all it does is make one of them heal really quick and you lose the big penalty.
So now the completely useless ones are removed, what does that leave us with:
- Corrupt Intervention
- Dead Man's Switch
- Deadlock
- Hex: Pentimento
- Jolt
- Pop goes the Weasel
- Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance
Now of those, which ones are simply DECENT or SITUATIONAL:
- Corrupt Intervention - The problem with corrupt is the same as it has always been, all it does is make it so you won't lose 3 gens at the end of your first chase, now you'll only lose 1 or 2, then the perk is completely gone and you have no perk for the rest of the game. If it had some other effect, maybe like lethal pursuer where it increased the duration of gen blocking perks by some number of seconds, it might get a bit more value. Additionally, it isn't actually as good as lethal pursuer because good survivors can hide out a significant portion of the timer, or sneak by the killer and start doing gens. If you run to the blocked gens, where the survivors probably are, good chance is they'll sneak by you. If you defend the unblocked gens, good change they'll just wait out the timer, and you basically bought "2 extra minutes" of game time, but with no progress happening on either side.
- Dead Man's Switch - Dead man's switch is really only good when paired with Pain Res, it COULD be good when paired with oppression if that didn't have a 6 year cooldown. But the main problem is, getting survivors off gens when you aren't a handful of specific killers isn't easy when you are probably on the other side of the map. And on top of that, the gen blocking starts taking effect immediately after you hook the person, meaning that, by the time you walk to another gen a survivor is repairing, you probably spend 10-15 of the 30 seconds. Then in blocks the gen, now what, good job, you just blocked a gen that nobody was working on anyway. So the value there is pretty minimal.
- Hex: Pentimento - Boons hard counter this, because it really is only good when paired with Hex: Plaything. Which, good players will often just completely ignore, because they know you will have pentimento with it, but even with that perk, activating pentimento is actually quite hard. You have to: Hook a survivor, then THEY have to cleanse the totem after they get unhooked, or some other survivor has to after 90 seconds, assuming anyone even sees it (plaything has a low impact against good players generally since most killers are loud AF anyway) and then you have to walk back to the totem and activate it. That is assuming that the survivors don't have a boon to make it so you can't activate it. THEN when you activate it, survivors will know where the totem is because they see the giant blob that shows them where the Hex was at when it was cleansed anyway, so it likely won't last long.
- Jolt - Jolt is highly map and killer dependent. If you are playing a killer who generally downs survivors with their ability you will get no value from this perk. Generally this is good on the "weaker" killers, but then those killers are already having to 3 gen anyway, so giving a 7.2 second gen regression on a few gens near you when you down someone isn't going to be adding any tremendous value. Because similar to eruption, all you did was buy yourself a few seconds to pick up the survivor you just downed and hook them.
- Pop goes the Weasel - This perk was heavily nerfed to be "current progress" what a complete joke, but this is where we are at. This perk is only decent when you factor in the fact that you get the 2.5% from the base kit plus the 20% current progress (no idea which applies first, but lets say it gives you the best version) that means that a gen at 45 seconds, is going to lose 11.25 seconds of progress. So really, the perk is still kind of a joke when compared to what we have had in the past.
So where does that leave us with "good" gen defense perks that are actually viable to use:
- Deadlock - This is really the only REALLY good one left, it gives you a full 120 seconds of gen defense, or 1.3 gens worth for a total game, and blocks gens with the most progress, allowing you to get the next gen that is going to pop. But similar to dead man's, this perk still isn't really THAT much stronger than it. Because it doesn't really offer much in the way of "gen defense" but it is more of a "gen rush" protection. But even then, 30 seconds is an extremely short amount of time for this perk to be nearly as good as old eruption, or Pain res/Dead man's
- Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance - This perk will still be decent, but not nearly as powerful as before. You'll still basically have to pair it with dead man's switch to be good. But given that you get 4 uses, all this does is help you when you want to "play nice". You'll get a solid 90 seconds or 1 gen of regression out of it, if you use it to it's fullest potential. And that is generally where i draw the line. If the perk can give you a full gen of defense, it is probably viable.
The problem with this game is time efficiency. Base regression is SOOOO slow compared to survivors PROgression. Taking nearly 360 seconds to regress a gen from 99% is so dumb, and most gen perks only shave off maybe 10 seconds if you are lucky of gen time. 10 seconds is not even enough time to pick up a survivor, wait for the animation, walk to a hook, and the hook them, then wait for the animation. That by itself is going to take 2.5 + ~8 + 1.5 = 12 seconds. So, while you might have just shaved off 12 second of gen time from some of the weaker perks. Hooking that survivor costs you 12 seconds. Meanwhile 3 survivors are working on gens, meaning they still gained 25% of a gens worth of progress between the 3 of them despite your 12 second reduction.
The only viable perks are the one that, over the course of a game, can save at least a full gen's worth of progress. And even then, they are only really useful if they offer some major BURST regression/defense. Because you always have to be thinking that, you have 4 survivors. So even saving 25 SECONDS, when you hook a survivor with pain res, you are still only GAINING a SINGLEsecond of time in your favor as the killer there. 12 seconds to hook the survivor, but 36 seconds of gen progress and 25 seconds of burst regession = 36 seconds - 12 seconds - 25 seconds = -1 second of PROgression on gens.
Once you look at the math, you can see how ridiculous it is. With how long chases can be, god pallets and such, a single pallet break in a chase, increases the length of that chase by a full 20 seconds AT MINIMUM. That doesn't even factor in if the survivor wins a mindgame, which probably adds another 20-30 seconds of chase time depending on the mindgame. This is why you lose 3 gens in the first chase, and why a single mistake in a chase often will cost you the entire game. And now you see why 3genning, camping, and tunneling is pretty much all you can do.
And if you are going to say: "i don't use gen defense perks and i do fine as *insert low tier killer here*" then post the receipts on youtube, so we can watch how terrible the survivors that you are going against are.
What a good and detailed post from someone that knows their stuff and plays versus good survivors.People don't see the bigger picture that medkits are still the strongest item survivors can bring,Dh while still usable can easily be replaced by a different exhaustion perk of similar value,CoH still has value for good coordinated teams.
However killers lost all regression, and have barely a few blocking perks left.While we need to wait and test out the new Pr before an accurate rating can be made,i fear the high rng and poor perk synergy will make it unviable.(You need to mix hooks,hope you have a scurge hook near that survivors can't bodyblock or sabo,once you make it to the hook hope a gen doesn't pop,and hope you don't get denied by Deadlock a vastly superior perk).
-
@devotedDBDenjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3400504#Comment_3400504
oh ok you're trolling or very new
I don't know which part of my comment you find ridiculous.
The fact that strong survivors exist,and that someone has to face them?
The fact that finding,catching up,hitting someone twice,dealing with and exhaustion perk,on a map will every pallet and breakable wall up,on top of hooking and making your way to a generator in less then 90 seconds is not achievable vs good survivor for most killers?
So you disagree that a mediocre team that just runs away,predrops pallets and runs strong structures can come close to beating a killer way better than them,if they are running a weak killer with minimal gen defense,by virtue of gens being able to be completed in 5 minutes? (it takes 3 minutes for 3 people to do all 5 gens,count in travel time and human error i guess).Bad rng and poor preparation can make a killer lose vs worse opponents,dbd is not a balanced game,that is why you preventively tunnel,to ensure you don't lose to strong teams,and to ensure weak teams don't beat you when you don't have the tools to compete.
-
@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3400284#Comment_3400284
Well you're saying that two perks have to be wasted to just strengthen one of them? Isn't he supposed to catch the killer on the tunnel?
It gives you two seconds to really escape from the killer, and the distance between you and the killer will be only 8 meters, and this is very bad.
I didn't see any survivors come to protect me from a killer tunneling me (not all survivors a SWF)
Having synergy between perks is completly normal.Dead man switch got nerfed due to its strong synergy with pain resonance,on its own it was a mediocre perk that turned meta due to its pairing.
Its not meant to give you a free escape from a chase,it still allows you to loop your surrounding tiles.Considering you have base bt, chose to go down in a strong area and you are find,there are only 2 anti tunneling perks,that alone makes DS potentially worth running.
I'm not saying its often,but good survivors will,i solo queue only and had many teammates do it for me,and i reciprocated as well.If a killer is tunneling someone it's worth taking hits to keep them in the game for longer
-
@devotedDBDenjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396926#Comment_3396926
did you really just use an example of a 5k hour swf that hardly anyone ever goes against? you do realize those god swfs are in such a minority that twins players are more common, right? why on earth would you use a god swf as an example unless you're trolling?
"the game simply isn't balanced around having 4 survivors for over half the match"
??? do you commonly not have a kill by the time the game's half over? maybe it's not a case of you NEED to tunnel/camp to get a kill, maybe you just need to get better at the game... consistently not having even 1 kill by the time the game's half over is kinda telling. i refuse to believe half of the people here consistently go against survivor teams that are just so much noticeably better than them they have no chance of winning against without camping or tunneling for the majority of their matches. you people need to practice time management and chases i swear it'd do you wonders.
That just tells me you are not playing good survivors.Meeting at least one one 5 k hour surv happens in half my games.A full squad,that is also a swf with that many hours is a bit rarer indeed,but saying you don't meet good players is a narrow minded argument.
Regarding your kill when the game is half over,again idk what survivors are you playing but getting a hook at 3 gens,or having 2 gens pop after your first hook is excepted performance for every killer but the big 3.That's already almost half the game,thats why your next best move is to tunnel,and hope to bring the game back at one gen.
Regarding teams being better than them and losing without tunneling.If you play killer for long enough,and sometimes play weak killers with memey builds,you will encounter average teams,of mediocre players,that would have clearly gotten destroyed if you went into the match prepared(strong killer and build) and yet despite the skill diference,due to the confines of your character,bad map etc you end up losing or having a really close game to a team outside of your skill range.
I would also like to mention that employing the right strategy,at the right time is the difference between an above average player and a great one.If a survivor drops a strong pallet,there is only so much you can do with legion to down them regardless of how good you are,however taking smart chases and punishing bad decisions made by survivors by tunneling and camping at opportune moments are the mark of a great player,its the true skill expression m1 killers have.
-
@tuttoinunavolta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3400224#Comment_3400224
When did I ever say that..? My argument is that it has the same stun time as Head On on paper, but in reality it doesn't because its animation is included. I admit I should have checked how long it lasts before writing 5/6 seconds as I did in the OP, because it's definitely longer than I was thinking, but you're just willingly misinterpreting what I'm saying at this point - I'm asking for the breaking free animation time to be added to the stun time. That's probably less than a full second, so the survivor would have less or as much time to react as when Head On is used. And I doubt Head On grants free escapes.
That's not a fair comparison, that's why I said Plaything and not Pentimento. DS's usefulness depends on your rival's actions - something that you can't predict before starting a game. It's more akin to Unbreakable or Mad Grit. Pentimento, like Undying or Blood Rush, gives you a backup plan if the core strategy of your loadout gets countered. An anti-tunnel perk could always be useful as long as tunneling exists; an anti-hex-cleasing perk is only useful if you're bringing hexes.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3400233#Comment_3400233
Oh DS can be useful in specific situations, but completely useless against killers who can cover that range in no time. I think just adding those few 0. seconds I mentioned here wouldn't change the perk's power in other situations and just make it worth it even against those killers. Again, I apologize for those 5/6 seconds I wrote in the OP because I didn't realize it's a huge change from 3 at first. I basically just want the perk's stun to be the same as Head On's, not just on paper though.
Me wanting Sole Survivor to become more useful doesn't mean I don't want the same for other characters; all of the rarely used, really weak perks should be changed. But since I wanted to suggest that change to DS too I decided to put them both on the same post since they belong to the same character. I love Piggy and Ghostie and their perks need a buff too for sure (I like I'm All Ears a lot on some killers though I won't lie)
No Ds isn't useless vs blight for example,it still gives you an extra health state,that you can pair up with another endurance perk for example,or it can buy time for your teammates to bodyblock.It wastes a lot of the killers time to get hit by ds,and essentially giving you another chance at playing.Yes it doesn't give you dsitance,so?You can still use the pallets and windows to buy more time for your team,its also one of the few anti tunneling perks in the game,actively countering the most effective strategy a killer can employ,calling it a weak perk is disingenuous.As the person above said,it's not meant to give you a free escape from a chase.
-
Ds is not a weak perk.Its in the top 15 most used perks(according to nightlight),placed highly on many perk tierlists,and from personal experience i can attest to its strength(lost many games to it,i run all the time when i play surv).The perk isn't a contender for the strongest perk in the game like it used to be and thats fine.Thats where a well designed perk should be,strong but not game breaking.It doesn't give you distance for free,it allows you to resume loping and thats it.It's also the best perk to pair with DH,due to its strong synergy.
Sole survivors is a worthless perk,like 80% of all perks in this game(its not a problem uniquely attached to it).Atleast laurie has one strong perk.Poor pyramid head,pig and ghostface have nothing going for them and they are also licensed characters.
-
@MrsGhostface said:
Yes, it’s is more killer sided than it’s ever been currently. Anywhere besides the forums agrees. This place is just dominated by killers
Yeah thats why tournaments are held on killer sided maps,with survivor perks banned,while survivors have to bring different perks each,with survivors only bringing one item and yet survivors win most games.
Generators are repaired to quickly especially when you include toolboxes and busted maps where you pre drop every pallet,if you know how to play you can't say the game is killer sided.Kill rates are obviously wrong since the strongest killers are not on top.Very few killers can compete,yeah a blight on coal tower with C33 or ring will destroy solo players,but thats hardly most games at high mmr.
-
@Veroles said:
The only thing what's really toxic is, what happens in afterchat. Every game mechanic is part of the game. There are things which are not allowed (keeping someone hostage for example) but that's it. The thing is what people seem to feel as toxic. That people get triggered by someone who they do not even know a single second in their life which only smashes the CTRL like a clown to get killers attention. Trying to avoid a hookstage is a complete normal game mechanic and when people think that's toxic that's maybe the wrong game for this kind of players. One thing i would see more or less as toxic and that's the t-bag at exit gate but that's it.
Like i said already, the afterchat is important and only there you can figure out the real intention, all other things are most of the time just guesses why people play like they do.
Tbagging at the exitgames,hitting people on hook,letting a slug die for no reason are toxic behaviors,but they are mild.Endgame chat,steam profile comments and any further actions, range from detestable to unacceptable.
@Sonzaishinai said:
Even if the entire community held hands and sang kumbaya together they would still be the most toxic community out there.
The way they treat the devs alone is sad beyond belief.
I agree that most of the "toxic behaviours" in game aren't really toxic and the intent behind most of them is just winning the game but when people really talk about toxic community of DbD they talk beyond what happens in game
I feel like thats a small loud minority.The average,casual player probably doesn't even interact with the social platforms this game has.They might be aware or twitter,maybe otz and watch a video/post once a month but thats about it.Im willing to bet a good chunk of the playerbase wasn't even aware of the ptb changes.
@HugTheHag said:
I generally hate PvP games, and before playing DbD I'd heard about how toxic its playerbase was, and how people were so prone to insult you or try and make your games miserable.
Upon my first 10 games, I had :
- Trapper apologizing in chat for terminating me early, proceeds to give me tips on how to play
- "Sweaty" Midwich Nurse notices I'm a baby and lets me practice my skillchecks without killing me, gives me the escape
- (As killer) A Jake coming to find me on Midwich after I'm completely lost and giving me a tour of the map, showing me the different ways to go upstairs that I couldn't find before
And in the next hundreds of hours, many, many positive postgame chats. Players being encouraging, praising, or just joking around. A guy I'd never met before offering to coach me and becoming a very good friend since.
The community is a lot less "toxic" than people think. It's just opinionated. =)
I can attest to such behaviour,it's really sweet when the other side shows empathy and concern.It's the best feeling ever when your opponents congratulate your performance or add you to play future games.
-
@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3399037#Comment_3399037
How ds and longer speed boost makes tunneling unviable when there is 100s gens and deadlock? Tunneling will happen just slower but survivors also win slower so it will still be very viable.
Now most killers spread hooks so these changes will benefit them which is the idea. Still tunneling is good option after someone has been hooked twice. Personally I have many games where I don't tunnel and get two survivors out about same time. I can lose more gens doing so than tunneling but even if it's only 1 gen left 2vs1 is easy to win and that strat will just get even more viable.
High mmr is not consistent thing and is already unplayable if you get good survivors and these changes would actually help good high mmr killers who tunnel more smartly and know how to pressure.
Then you just change the playstyle into hook meg,leaver her be untill she gets unhooked,loses her ds and the next time you find her just tunnel the living life out of her.Remember you can bring a mori to bypass the new anti tunneling feature.The game becomes incredibly killer sided as a resut.100 seconds gens + deadlock + any other slowdown you want to bring on top gives you to much time.
You also ruin the game for the casual playerbase,killers are already dominating,most are not even tunneling they just conclude the game by winning chase after chase since survivors don't know how to loop.
-
@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3398494#Comment_3398494
There definetely is better solutions for reducing tunneling we currently have. There should be more rewards spreading hooks and gens should be slowed down maybe 100s with basekit deadlock. Gens can be rushed without any perks survivors spawning beginning of match separatedly to do different gens is example meaning 3 gens will pop in first chase.
Tunneling should be reduced making ds basekit and give survivor longer speed boost after unhooked first time. Both gen rushing and tunneling need to be reduced especially beginning of the match. No-one want to see 3 gens pop in first minute of match and no-one wants to see survivor death in under 2 minutes of start of match.
If you make tunneling unviable you either make the game unplayable at high mmr or you either change dbd to its core.I'm talkling insane buff perks,on top of further basekit changes.Right now spreading hooks does nothing as killer,the only reason killing someone is impactful is because in a 1 v 3 you can snowball,generate enough pressure to have no one on gens(1 hooked,one in chase,one going for unhook + heal)on top of allowing you to camp for a 2k if things go south.
-
Unless the survivors bring multiple brand new parts,gen rushing doesn't exist.They are just playing efficiently,generate pressure or crumble,thats how killer has always been.
Tunneling is almost impossible to fix without causing other issues.IF you allow a survivor to tank hits or make them unable to be picked up,they will just use it aggressively to bodyblock the killer.
Camping is a valid strategy and considering the inclusion of reassurance it is perfectly fine.IF the killer camps the first hook they get,they will get one kill at most.However if the killers spots a 3gen,and hooks the survivor in the middle,or they down two survivors in close vicinity ,they have absolutely no reason not to pressure said area.You can't just punish good decision making because its unfun to you.
-
I thing some manner of depping should still be present in the game.
You could punish Dcs with it as well as people who sacrifice themselves on hook.
On the killer side it should punish afking,so there should be a requirement to hook get two hooks for example.
Survivors also shouldn't be able to depip a killer by mass dcing.
-
As long as no one is cheating,afking, taking the game hostage or abusing a bug.
Everything else is fair game,the developers implemented said features and intended for them to be used.
Its silly to get mad a survivors for being efficient with thier objective.Why would a killer hamper their gameplay to satisfy your fun?Strong items and addons are added in the bloodweb for players to use them.
Its silly to take offense in intended gameplay features,blame the game not the player.
-
@jesterkind said:
It always surprises me to see Ormond brought up in conversations about map size as an example of a map that's too big, when it's like, dead centre/average in terms of map sizes. Comparatively, it's really not that big at all.
Regarding the actual point, though- I think there's a middle ground between complete standardisation and what we currently have, and that's where I think the devs should be aiming. Something like Ormond's average size should become the largest a map can be, or at least close to it, but the size should still vary between that and whatever the smallest map is.
Same with pallet distribution. While some of the extreme edges could be reigned in, I think it's generally fine to have outliers like Lery's being windows central and Gideon's having more pallets but like, literally four windows.
TL;DR: Variation is genuinely fine, it's the extreme edges that need to be sanded down.
100% agree that certain bigger maps need to be cut down.I do however believe a more important attribute than size is for every map to have a strength and weakness, map shouldn't just full throttle in the favor of one side.
Its fine for a map to be big as long as its a 3 gen map,with a narrow centre,where you can prevent access by just staying in the middle.
Its fine for a map to be big as long as the pallet density remain similar to other smaller maps,in turn making it harder to chain tiles,and deadzones more prevalent and worrying.
Its fine for maps to be small as long as strong loops are provided or its easy to chain loops or gens are difficult for the killer to defend
The strength of the main building should also be taken into account when balancing maps.
Ormond is a good example of such a map.Not only is the map big(its not average,since most maps don't use the edges of it in gameplay,while ormond does),it has a strong main building,a well placed killer shack ,gens are spread out so even the best 3 gen is a stretch at best,its filled with tiles and filler pallets to chain them.The main building spawns at least 2 god pallets,and 2 strong windows untill you break the walls,on top of potentially spawning another god pallet(or bloodlustable one).Did i mention its in the middle of the map,so you can always find shelter and potentially chain it in your chase?
-
The maps are the most unbalanced part of present dbd,and to be honest it has always been an issue.While i would love for all the maps to be balanced,their map design philosophy obviously isn't concerned with balanced.Every map in recent history,new or reworked has been designed to favor survivors.
On top of being impossible to alter all the maps,you would make the game insanely monotonous and repetitive,as unbalanced as they may be,every realms feels refreshing and aesthetically pleasing.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3398110#Comment_3398110
I'm sure they could figure out a way to prevent the survivor stopping the killer from hitting anyone. If nothing else, the killer moves faster than survivors and could lunge out of it, lol.
You're right that losing collision wouldn't change much, but it would crucially prevent your basekit anti-tunnel from simply not working against a killer that can bypass Endurance. That may only be two killers now (Deathslinger and Pinhead), but it's better to nip that potential problem in the bud rather than let it fester.
Yes, I don't personally favour the MoM answer myself since it does allow survivors to bodyblock and tank hits. It could be balanced properly, but it'd require a lot of careful tweaks and I think losing collision would be simpler; they're just both options for fixing the specific problem of basekit anti-tunnel sometimes not working.
I'm glad we can see eye to eye on certain points.
Regarding the loss of collision,do you want survivors to be unbale to be interacted with for 10 seconds?Because losing collision doesn't prevent slinger and pinhead from spearing/chaining them,it just prevents bodyblocking.If you do,then from a balance perspective it might be fine,but i fear it interrupts the atmosphere the game is trying to portray.You should never feel safe from the killer,and being untouchable easily breaks immersion and the logic the game tries to present.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3398092#Comment_3398092
I'm confused on what you think the difference is, though. Obviously "anti tunnel" means... giving you a tool to ensure you're not helpless if the killer decides to tunnel you?
I think you might have a broader definition of "tunnelling" than is helpful for this discussion. When I say anti-tunnel, I only mean when the killer decides to chase someone immediately after they're unhooked, not the killer prioritising them later or happening to find them again after a short duration.
That's why I suggest a loss of collision. Something to ensure you can't be downed immediately and that'll give you time to reach a loop, but not something that'll protect you if you play aggressively - nor something that'll stop the killer from trying to down you anyway if that seems like the best decision.
Basekit endurance was added so the killer can't down the unhooked survivor for free.It felt unfair and out of your control whether or not the unhooker had BT.If the unhooker didn't have it the killer could have also easily downed both survivors in quick succession near a hook,which was in most cases was a game over,that felt uninterractive.
Giving the survivor no collision changes nothing,the killer can in very few and situational scenarios bodyblock the survivor(Basement is a good example),meanwhile it allows the survivor to stay inside the killer hitbox which makes the killer unable to swing at anyone else.(bad for endgame scenarios)
Giving them a MoM is straight up busted.Everyone would run OtR and tank 2 hits for free,pair it with DS and deadhard and its borderline unfair,and the sole reason why endurance doesn't stack.
-
@jesterkind said:
While I don't think any of this is a compelling argument against Endurance (and by extension Deep Wounds) itself, you have hit on one thing I agree with here- I don't think the basekit anti-tunnel should be using Endurance, because it should be uniformly useful against all killers.
Deathslinger and to a much, much lesser extent Legion (as they can't bypass BT, they still have to hit you to put you in Deep Wound, but they can bypass Dead Hard) being able to counter Endurance isn't that much of a problem for most uses of the status effect- as you say, they're perks and addons, and that's just the risk you're taking by bringing them. But, Deathslinger being able to tunnel with impunity, while not a hugely prevalent problem, does raise some question marks.
There are two suggestions I would make with this in mind. The first is what I think should've been done from the start: Make the anti-tunnel protection a complete loss of collision. No using it offensively, no weird combos, just make distance or be vulnerable when your ten seconds elapses.
The second is to make the basekit anti-tunnel work like Mettle of Man, give the block without causing Deep Wounds. I don't favour this outcome, it's too easy to use offensively, but that's true of the current system to and at least this would function better when it's used defensively.
Either way, anti-tunnel perks that provide Endurance (or just other sources like Dead Hard) aren't invalidated by hard tunnelling, which I think is a good state for the game to be in.
As mentioned in my first comment,basekit endurace was very obviously not meant to be you weapon against tunneling.It was added because you we're helpless if you unhooker didn't bring BT(outside of your control),as proven by that fact that is was initially 5 seconds.
If you want to implement an anti tunneling change, you need to buff killers in return.You can't just remove one of if not the strongest tactic a killer can use without a hefty compensation.
-
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3398061#Comment_3398061
Old Ds reset your whole chase. It did much. You could actually relocate to a tile that made more sense. Current DS is almost useless (well it helps against weak killers and it resets your deep wound status so you could use DH - which will no longer work in new patch - making the perk about as useful as say solidarity - meaning it's not totally useless, but chances are high it will not change anything in the match).
As for the other mentioned perks. BT helps against campers so you at least can get to a stage where u r tunneled instead. OtR is perfect anti-tunneling perk, that works only if you are being tunneled without being camped (camping w tunneling change the perk to just distortion and iron will for 80s). Personally - I don't like the perk for this reason (it's wasted if killer is "fair" and it does nothing if killer really wants to tunnel hard). DH is getting fat nerf and considering you were at mercy of ping even before this change + same as OtR it will not help you against camping tunneler (or blood echo. Or slinger. Or legion. Or pinhead w original pain. Or.....) The perk is so limited now, that it hardly makes sense.
Fully agree old DS was a different beast,but iron will or ruin are dead perks,ds is still serviceable and arguably the best perk to pair with DH.Regarding the dh nerf,i'm willing to bet it will still be in the top 10 survivor perks,but i guess we'll have to wait and see(it went from 3 uses a match to 2).
-
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3398041#Comment_3398041
DS can do something only if it's slow M1 killer. The perk is bad. Get chased by blight, nurse, spirit, wesker, plague in power, piramidhead or even nemesis and there it's super likely you will get much less value then 10s out of it (the only thing that can save you is strong tile for respective killer. But how/why would you go down to said killer if u were at strong tile to begin with?).
The perk has any value only if it's freddy, trapper, pig, meyers (without any tombstone) and other like them...
You have a layer of endurance(Dh,OtR,basekit or even BT if you are brave enough) meant to help you out.If that is somehow not enough,DS can be added on top.Also even old Ds against nurse or blight didn't do much,and as mentioned previously its not meant to give you distance anymore,just to allow you to continue looping a nearby strucutre/tile,while also buying your teammates time to come and bodyblock for you.
-
I'm fairly sure basekit endurance was introduced alongside a movement speed increases to make unhooked survivors not feel helpless as weather on not your unhooked ran BT was outside of your control.As further proof the initial duration was 5 seconds,clearly not enough to stop a tunneling killer.
If you feel that killers bypass your endurance to quickly just run DS,i don't know where the mentality that its dead came from.I do believe its worse that OtR,and it doesn't let you make distance anymore,but it still allows you to continue looping the same tile/structure.It went from the best perk in the game,to a very powerful one.(killers even expect it less than before).
Out of the killers being able to bypass endurance you mentioned,Legion and Deathlisher are not problematic,they techinally "hit" you,and even give you a speedboost.Only pinhead is problematic, other killer addons are fine,trapper for example applying deep wound with his traps for example is irrelevant.
-
@Archael said:
Except it does not inflict deep wound on chain hit.
Deep wound is applied after survivor brake the chains.
If he hit You with chain and then M1 while still on chains, then your borrowed time will trigger.
To counter it. If You have something that can give You endurance, then wait for the hit, if You are not sure if You manage to escape after braking chains.
You only need one chain to break,and pinhead can break chains by walking into them
-
@pigslittlepet said:
By that logic we should nerf legion and slinger basekit since they can apply deepwound. I think the reason this add on stands out is because people hate going against ph to begin with. Perks are bypassed sometimes. It's part of the game to counter people. Fearmonger counters sprint burst. Amanita cap counters windows. It's strong. But it's not overpowered.
The thing is,every other means of inflicting deep wound is limited or earned.Slinger needs to hit you,he didn't bypass anything.Legion gives you a speedburst and stuns himself,trapper requires you to step into his trapps to trigger his addon(at that point he got you anyway).Pinhead instead slows you down and downs you in 2 seconds,almost as if endurance was not a thing.He is one of the few characters in the game that can get an unhook not to be safe with his addon.
-
@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3397080#Comment_3397080
We're not playing tit for tat. This thread is about BNPs specifically. You want those addons addressed, make a thread about it. I'm sure plenty of people will show support, myself included. But don't come on a thread about BNPs playing the whataboutism game. That's not gonna fly.
As a matter of fact i don't want those addons removed,i'm a killer main myself and like to abuse them from time to time.
You are missing my main point,its fine for dbd to be unbalanced.The game design philosophy the developers have reflect that.Look at the recent map releases and reworks,they are all terribly unbalanced maps(infact all maps are terrible due to the rng factor involved,maps can have as much as an extra 8-10 pallets,or a shack window facing a long wall junggle gym that connects to the main building).Even the killers released,have design as their driving force,as they don't shy away from releasing underpowered m1 killers(sadako,SM).
I do agree with your sentiment of making dbd a more balanced game,and bnps are a start,but they do align with the philosophy of the developers(a cool design) and serve as the strong thing survivors can bring to balance the odds,which is why removing them is in poor taste, as long as killers are allowed to run rampant.(especially since medkits and flashlights have just been hit with nerfs).
-
@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3397080#Comment_3397080
All of those addons (and more) should’ve been nerfed a long time ago. Actually, Pinky Finger has been nerfed and is about to get nerfed again soon.
An overpowered thing existing on one side doesn’t make it ok for the other side to have similarly overpowered tools. Nerf them both. The killer addons you listed are not balanced, at all. BNPs are also not balanced.
Don't we agree then?Just remove nerf them both or keep them both.There is merit in having strong options for shits and giggles but ultimately if you want to make the game more competitive and balanced they have no business being so strong.
-
@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396934#Comment_3396934
It's funny how you mention three of the strongest addons in the game, who almost everyone, killer mains included, agree should get nerfed, and believe you're making a solid argument.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396955#Comment_3396955
While BTL can refill items, it's important to account for the time spent refilling them in a locker. And while We'll Make It provides more efficiency than a BNP in raw numbers, it's important to remember the fact that gens are a killer's primary objective, and are often patrolled, whereas survivors can heal anywhere. The extra 22.5 seconds (""only"") of gen time that is saved is crucial, because it's a static objective.
Yeah ofc those addons are busted.Thats exactly my point.If those addons are allowed to be in the game so should brand new part.Take them out together or leave them be
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396966#Comment_3396966
These are all terrible perks
Not really keen on accepting that from someone who thinks there's only 3 good killer perks and they're all getting nerfed this patch. Did you ever consider that maybe your perspective is a bit warped because you're used to overtuned perks?
Also how aren't the survivor perks mentioned beyond strong?
Windows of Opportunity does almost nothing for a competent player. For the People is insanely situational and, in probably 49/50 matches will not benefit the survivors. Deliverance has way too many hooks and eyes for a relatively minor benefit that's further cut down outside of well-coordinated swiffer play, and Decisive Strike is the most egregious of them all.
DS got trimmed neatly into the position of anti-tunnel to the point where it's effectively in the killer's control, 100%. The -killer- has to put in effort to get this perk to fire. And now, when it does fire, its effect is pretty much negligible. So not only does it very rarely come into play, its effect is also terrible.
'But you can pair it with other endurance!'
Now I'm sinking two perk slots into being able to do something when the killer tunnels, leaving me with only half a build if the killer doesn't! What a steal!
Also how isn't reassurance complety bonkers?.They took Kinship,and made it better in every single way.
And what was Kinship's value, exactly? How good was that perk?
Seriously, stop comparing perks amongst each other and assess them on their own merits. Reassurance, in this regard, is not a strong perk just because Kinship is worse. Reassurance has limited value in very specific situations. It could've been good, but then it got gutted before it hit live in order to protect camping.
i am able to objectively look at the fact that killer is being treated unfairly.
Every single person crying about killer nerfs also thinks themselves objective when they do so, including the folks that cry about survivor stuff being OP while posting 2-gen 4Ks as 'proof'. Probably about 90% of them claim to be 'top MMR', and a similar number will probably answer that killer has never once been buffed.
The game is way more balanced than people make it out to be. It may not be balanced to a plateau that people like, but it is balanced.
The game is balanced around tunneling.And survivors have a plethora of perks to combat it,on top of having basekit endurance and the ability to bodyblock.Half the maps in the game feel like the were designed by the most diehard survivor main,that can only last longer than 3 seconds in a chase when they predrop a god pallet.
I won't dissagree that dbd can be balanced in it's current state.An oni on coal tower for example is 100% a balance scenario for both sides,where the better party will come up on top.But then you look at half the killer roaster and you can't help but cry when the game is designed for 5 killers to thrive,for another 5 to do decently well,meanwhile every other killer is left in the dust.
The live changes are a reflection of that.Blight doesn't need to hold a 3gen but the changes to Dh actively buff him.It's depressing on both ends.But playing Clown and running Remember me of all perks,when the poor killer struggles against exhaustion perks,he can't pressure heals,he can't pressure gens,and now he can't even use pain res to circumvent his lack of mobility.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396943#Comment_3396943
You completely missed the point. Why are you so obsessed with min-maxing that you write off any perk that isn't the absolute incontestable universal best-pick as being immediately non-viable?
And then you pad out the survivors' meta list (not even just viability, but -meta- picks) with such bangers as Reassurance, Deliverance, Windows of Opportunity, For the People and Decisive Strike.
Have you ever, at any point, attempted to run any killer perk that didn't get handed to you by a youtube video with a big red arrow in the thumbnail?
You are making bold assumptions about my playstyle,i don't follow the meta spewed out by content creators. I seldom use gen kicking perks regardless of their viability,i didn't use pop back in the day and have never used CoB or Overcharge.But at the same time im not going to use Leverage,Remember me , I'm all ears or Coup only because Otz made a video about it.These are all terrible perks,and you not admitting it shows your bias,its like saying no mither is good because you can't get slugged,and you have deadhard(or used to have) vs instadown killers,its a stretch to say its good.
Regarding your min-maxing point,the survivors i am facing don't lose any sleep over running the sweatiest builds out there,but as killer we are slowing losing the ability to match theirs with every patch.You guys kept all your strong perks to a decent degree or got better ones,while the killer meta has been going down for years.
Also how aren't the survivor perks mentioned beyond strong?
WoO gives you consistent information at a glance,it turns mediocre loopers into great ones,and allows experienced players to always have a resource to use vs a killer.I would say its a necessary perk in solo queue.
For the People is effective versus a tunneling killer,you know the most efficient strategy to win games.The downside is non existent when the killer cannot afford to go for you.(On top of its endgame capabilities)
Deliverance,as long as you play safe and can coordinate with your team for someone else to take agro and for you to unhook,allows you to complete destroy a killers pressure,since no one needs to unhook you,on top of destroying killer endgame strategies.
Decesive is still strong,it seems to me like you are the one contributing to the echo chamber,unable to form your own oppinion.It doesn't let you make free distance,and can't be used in endgame.Still strong vs tunneling killers,once again a very prominent strategy,if you have a team bodyblocking for you this perk can be especially brutal to face.Its strength is in it's pairing with Dh.
Also how isn't reassurance complety bonkers?.They took Kinship,and made it better in every single way.
I'm not even affected by the nerfs as the only slowdown i use are DL and CI anyway,since the rest are inconsistent or not my playstyle and yet even though this patch is a buff for me,i am able to objectively look at the fact that killer is being treated unfairly.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396658#Comment_3396658
Meta and usable are drastically different things, and no perk ever becomes 'usable' through removal of alternatives. No matter how much other perks get nerfed, for example, Red Herring will never be a good, worthwhile perk.
Plaything,DevHop,Rember me,Gift of Pain,I'm all ears,Iron maiden,Leverage,Make your choice,Remember me are terrible perks,this tells me you either don't play killer or are just running meme builds.
I do play killer. I also play survivor though, so my standards for what is a 'bad perk' seem to be considerably different from yours, considering survivors have such bangers as the aforementioned Red Herring, or No Mither, or Up the Ante, or Slippery Meat, or Plunderer's Instinct, or Ace in the Hole, or Calm Spirit, or Left Behind, or Sole Survivor, Autodidact, Breakout, Power Struggle, Corrective Action, Visionary, Technician...
Lots of these perks are trash and not worth using. Some of them will hardly ever fire, some of them don't give any value when they do fire. This is extremely common among survivor perks, but significantly more rare among killer perks. Does that mean all killer perks are fantastic? No, of course not. Some are truly just worse than others.
But just because Desperate Measures, at max, gives only 2% more healing speed than Botany Knowledge does 100% of the time doesn't mean Desperate Measures itself is bad. It still generates very consistent value, and can spike to strong value. It is worth using, even if Botany Knowledge is pretty objectively a better pick.
Now, for survivors, their perks are much more directly comparable, since survivors are all just reskins of one another.
But if there's a killer perk that's just pretty unconditionally best-in-slot to such a point that it makes you think other, perfectly serviceable perks are -unusable-, across the plethora of different killers with different playstyles, then don't you think that's indicative of a problem?
You are just wrong.Killers are ridden with situation perks that seem better than they actually are.No one is using Iron maiden or remember me in a serious game to win.I would argue after the next patch goes through the META perks(MOST EFFECTIVE TACTICS AVAIABLE),not strong or fun,will be in abundance for survivors compared to killers.
Killers meta perks are:
Noed,DL,CI,Sloppy,no way out.You could also argue for Pop,Bamb,Lethal,STBFL but they aren't quite as strong as they are fun.And then there are a lot of situation perks that are good on 2 killers,or that seem better than they actually are.
On the other side however:
OtR,UB,Adren,Deli,Prove, Reassurance,Sprint burst,lithe,Distortion,WoO,For the people,Resilience,Decisie strike as VERY powerfull,top of the notch options.If you play solo queue then Kindread,and bond are amazing.Aditionaly although not the best strong options can be found in BT,Balanced,Overcome,Will make it,We're gonna live forever,Streatwise,Built to last,Shadowstep and CoH,Lucky break.
I also believe Dh will still be used,but it will still be an A tier perk at worst after the changes.
You CANNOT argue that killers have worse perks at the moment compared to survivors.
-
@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396925#Comment_3396925
DBD isn't a casual party game.
But assuming it is, why not just make call of brine regress gens by 600%? It's a goofy, fun, unbalanced perk. Why shouldn't DH make you invincible for the remainder of the trial? That's just goofy and fun, isn't it?
For the same reason its fine for blight to look at a pallet and for it to dissapear(C33),for the same reason clow can instadown(pinky),for the same reason spirit can match blights speed(MDRing).It's fine for both sides to have strong,unbalanced options as long as its not overly opressive,and both sides have such a nuclear alternative.I do agree survivors have stronger stuff,4 Bnps + map offering is a stronger boon than any killer can provide for themselves,but the game doesn't need to be 100% balanced
-
@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396892#Comment_3396892
No it doesn't. It doesn't "excuse" it, it doesn't make it any less frustrating to deal with and it certainly does not mean that it will stay that way, unless the devs want to see this game die.
The keyword you are choosing to ignore is "balance", it is not "balanced" around killing survivors, it is catering to the masses who want easy pressure. Because if there was balance around it, we would have something that would actually work rather than the bandaids like (mini BT) and Haste which does nothing against killers who understand timing and pressure.
We can beat this dead horse until the game shuts down, Camping and Tunneling in their current form is the worst thing that could possibly happen to this game. Especially when MMR is not consistant, when a perk has to be brought in to semi counter something that at the end of the day we know means nothing when the killer doesn't magically divert to another survivor thus preventing them to tunnel. It is still a problem in 2023.
Show me a game of you beating 5k hour swf without tunneling or camping.The game simply isn't balanced around having 4 survivors for over half the match,and keep in mind generators can reasonably be repaired in 5 minutes,so you absolutely need to tunnel someone out of the game if you want to win.The only exception is playing blight/nurse and being matched against terrible players that lose the chase in 5 seconds.(even the BEST wraith in the world,controlled by an AI if you will that plays perfectly will not be able to 12 hook a remotely DECENT team on Garden of Joy for example)
-
I think its perfectly okay to have strong items,addons and overall tools to bring into a trial to tip the scales.
At its core dbd is a party,casual game,it just wouldn't be the same if we remove all the goofy,unbalanced stuff it has.Keep them as they are,just make sure not to keep killers in the dust regarding similar strong options,and to hopefully buff a few regression perks down the line to stabilize the lack of slowdown which will be present next patch.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396583#Comment_3396583
No there aren't because they all got nerfed
No, they didn't. Stop staring yourself blind on gen regression. You've got Plaything/Pentimento, Devour Hope, No Way Out, Remember Me, Gift of Pain, Floods of Rage, Deadlock, Bamboozle, NOED, I'm All Ears, Iron Maiden, Lethal Pursuer, Leverage, Make Your Choice, and so, so many other perks that are perfectly serviceable but don't see use because everyone got so incredibly obsessed with gen regression.
The perks you are describing only became meta or usable by lack of competition.Perks don't really matter until you verse strong teams,the kind that bodyblock at the right time and do all gens in 5 minutes.
Plaything,DevHop,Rember me,Gift of Pain,I'm all ears,Iron maiden,Leverage,Make your choice,Remember me are terrible perks,this tells me you either don't play killer or are just running meme builds.
Floods of Rage is only competitive on nurse.Bamboozle is indeed strong but only m1 killers can use it(half the roster).
NOED and Deadlock(i would also add corrupt) are indeed strong perks,but it feels like all killers have left.No way out gets outshadowed by noed which both allows you to conclude a strong game while also providing a comback mechaninc (since its uselss if you are losing)
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396538#Comment_3396538
... There are other perks besides Dead Hard? Hello? Lithe or Sprint Burst??
There's also tons of different perks besides the ones that got hit on the killer side.
Seriously, why are people acting like nerfs to Pain Res are the same as a basekit nerf? If the perk is that damn ubiquitous, isn't it basically the killer equivalent of DH?
No there aren't because they all got nerfed.Jolt/surge is the new peta for gen defense,a perk only m1 killers can use,that may or may not hit a gen,for what 8%? Pain res is to situational,what if you don't get a scurge hook?What if the gen you are hitting doesn't have a lot of progress because they did it in your face or it got blocked by deadlock,its hard to justifying running it.Pop can only be used by blight or other high mobility killers as an aggressively mid perk.DMS got nerfed a while back due to its synergy with pain res,and it did not receive any compensation since it works on two killers.Thana is in the same boat,it got buffed when no one asked for it and got hit with a harsher nerf than its original self for no reason(only good on 2 killers).Eruption was a good perk that got overbuffed for no reason once again just to be gutted.
The only strong gen perks remaining are Deadlock and Corrupt intervention,meanwhile CoH and Dh are still serviceable(reset zone abused by swf dead in solo)(Dh can be used twice per game instead of 3 times still strong).Medkits still serve the same purpose of healing yourself faster and alone,you just can bring a 3 heal medkit anymore big deal.Also if you truly believe Dh is dead than dw,other exhaustion perks exist that are on a similar level,meanwhile regression got gutted.
-
I'm surprised that no one is talking about the fact that there are about 2 maps in the game that blatantly favors the killer,meanwhile its all right for half the maps to be braindead for survivors to play because they are ridden with safe loops,to big to patrol and way to many resources to chew trough.
The funny part is that it feels almost intentional.Their earlier maps are currently the most balanced and killer sided out there,meanwhile every new addition and rework feels like another kick for killers.
-
@WesCravenFan said:
Changing the Killer POV affects Survivor stealth, which is part of the core gameplay. If you want the Shadowborn benefit, pony up the perk slot.
Higher fov makes you more susceptible to flashlight saves and blinds,it's not purely a buff,there also are people suffering from motion sickness due to how constraining it is.Also stealth really?If you are hiding behind a rock or wall higher fov will not help the killer.If you round the corner and try to run into the killer,thats not stealth,that a stupid mechanic that only works on bad killers
-
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convince killers that their effective strategies are toxic.
First of all,the most impactful thing you can do as a killer is to kill a survivor as quickly as possible.In the 1 v 4 the killer is simply overwhelmed. You will never be in a position to threaten the game by immobilizing everyone,and survivor can do that while still having one guy doing gens in the background.In a 1 v 3 however by hooking a survivor and chasing another no one is on gens,you have 100% gen slowdown and if you can down the survivor you are chasing and find the last one standing the game is over unless a perk comes into play(They cannot unhook nor pick up the slug,and they have a timer ticking).
As such regardless of what you wanna do as killer,making the game a 1 v 3 is simply unmatched,because the game doesn't reward you for mixing hooks,having one hook on each survivor is worse than only 3 on one.
You also want to pressure every hook.It is simply to powerfull of a tool,you can easily injure/down a survivor and get into a chase with another.Now when i say pressure i don't mean hard camp,unless the survivor don't attend to their mate and they are about to go next stage(then camp the life out of them).Instead make sure you don't give them a free unhook,by proxing but still doing somtheing productive like chasing a survivor without committing.This will put you in an opportune position to continue tunneling while also not letting the pressure down(Killers like blight and oni,with high mobility are especially effective,because they can proxi camp from a much longer distasnce,by returning to the hook in a flash).
Slugging is the last tool in your arsenal and by far the most situational. You want to slug when you can get more pressure by doing something else.If the last gen is about to pop you might want to delay the hook,if you are currently tunneling someone you slug the bodyblocker and keep on going,if you can end the game by slugging and finding the last standing survivor do so etc.
Lastly understand that killer is not only not easy,but you are in an unfair position most of the time.SWF grants survivors an unparalleled advantage that is not taken into account when designing powers and balancing the game,on top of that most killers are weak or addon reliant. Nurse is strong basekit,blight and spirit need addons less they cannot keep up,everyone else is at a massive disadvantage, so pray the survivor mess up enough to matter on top of you having to make great plays.