Gandor
Gandor
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326894#Comment_3326894
Nonsense. All of the quote. Utter nonsense. You CANNOT be going "just run iri stuff all the time and have that stupid OP perk determine your entire build and even what character you play" because that is what it boils down to.
Also, you are still wrong about Eruption. Eruption is not an issue. Never has been either. You just want all killer perks to be garbage for free wins. No.
40s gen regression and prolonging game to 40 minutes is perfectly fine but taking some iri stuff (also some stuff is not iri and I listed also all the perks) is broken. Like sure mate. You are not entitled at all.
Also for "garbage killers". Once again. 60% murder rate
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326849#Comment_3326849
Yeah, agitation makes you go faster too (faster than Survivors). Agi is the trapper perk you're thinking of; paired with Iron Grasp you can lug someone for nearly 18s at just over 4m (78m total); baseline it's 58.8m. You get roughly another 1/3 distance with IG+Agitation, but with IG alone it's only another 7m. Agitation on its own is better for distance--about 69m--but slightly worse at body blocking.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326854#Comment_3326854
Most of the successful sabos I've seen aren't Survivors anticipating which hook it's going to be (except for full squads), it's people doing said sabo only as the Killer's nearly at the hook. By making the sabotage speed faster than the time to recover from a successful hit, it gets waaaaay easier to pull that off. Don't need a toolkit, can bring any other item you like, etc.
And that, in fact, is definitely easier than a flashlight save that requires a lot more co-operation from the Killer to execute. And that everyone misses half the time anyway.
And was it this bad before patch 6.1? Because as I recall nobody used sabotages back then (but rare sabo squads), because it made very little sense in usual game. We already saw how 3s vs 3s looks like and it wasn't bad for killers. Also taking toolbox (with double speed addons and DH) is still better option for this play, because you do have enough time to actually DH after sabo to almost guarantee escape after sabotage (as opposed to saboteur fixing it's duration to be indeed 2.5s or as is written in description - even 2.7s would be fine).
And one last note - it's still 1 perk that would allow you TRADE when played right. It's not like killer will get nothing for it. At best case (and even if killer decides for wrong hook and does not notice that survivor) you as a sabotaging survivor get downed AND hooked for your trouble. Basically this would be one of a very few defenses against tunneling killer (and still it's usually very easy to catch wiggled off survivor anyway - all you need to do is let him wiggle anywhere not within 5m of a window or pallet) - because stun after wiggle is about as long as current DS - so a lot of time such a save prolongs the chase for 5s (making it net benefit for killer as 2 hooks for a price of 1)
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326783#Comment_3326783
Why would the players using the nurse come crying ?
I don't know how you came into realization that nurse players will come crying?
I said that nurse is now much better then before patch. And that there still might be some survivor complaints against her as she is still much stronger then average killer, but that I think she is now at least counterable (so this was a very good change)
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DH can be countered by killers: deathslinger, legion, trapper with lenghten jaws, billy, bubba, any tombstone meyers, doctor, huntress with venomous concotion or iri head, pig with interlocking razors or slow release toxin, clown with pinky finger, ghostface especially with victim's detailed routine or night vision monocular, oni in ability, pinhead with slice of frank or original pain, blight with Iridescent Blight Tag, nemesis with Iridescent Umbrella Badge, artist with o grief o lover or Garden of Rot, dredge with field recorder or Iridescent Wooden Plank, trickster with Iridescent Photocard, knight with assasin or blacksmith's hammer, wesker with Iridescent Uroboros Vial
perks: fearmonger, blood echo, septic touch, starstruck, dragon's grip, devour hope, haunted ground, NOED, hubris, iron maiden, make your choise, rancor
Situations: being in the open, not being at pallet, being at pallet but having perfect timing (yes survivor can't drop pallet during his DH animation giving killer some very short time), trying to vault window (just wait until survivor commits), killer having bad ping.
Quite a long list. It's so long, that I actually don't like to play the perk and never equip it - especially for the very last reason. And for a lot of these things balance landing just provides better value (sure for all the exhausted effects this does not do anything). What I am trying to say is, that DH has now huge list of possible counters. And it requires skill from survivor to successfully use. The perk is strong, but it's very far from being as free as say eruption and I provided a list of counters to the perk - and it's quite large as you can see (especially compared to say eruption - where the counter is only being in SWF and that's it). The perk is fine
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326824#Comment_3326824
The second buff I would actually love to see is a fix to perk saboteur - in description it says it takes 2.5s to successfully sabotage a hook. This is a lie. It takes exactly 3s. I have it measured (with video evidence counting each frame if you need to see it). The difference is very important in case of forced hook trade (killer is carrying someone dead hook). In case sabotage would take 2.5s or even 2.7s, you would be able to take a hit and then fully sabotage hook to effectively almost guarantee wiggling free of dead teammate. As it stands, you will never finish your sabotage after the hit (provided killer is not stupid/distracted).
Tbh, it's kind of ridiculous that a healthy teammate can guarantee a free down by sabotaging the hook in the Killer's face when they're already using a toolbox for it. Making it too easy and effective would be, again, a horrible idea for everyone. It's just asking for slugging, because that's the only counter.
No he can't GUARANTEE it. You need to be in good position for it. You need killer to choose your hook (which in non-corner case means picking your hook when he has anything between 3-7 hooks to choose from) - which means you must be sneaky (so that killer will not know to not go there) AND lucky (so he picks your hook), alternatively if you pair it with breakout - you still need to be even closer then people that come for flashlight save. And this all means exactly nothing if killer brings any one of iron grasp or agitation or mad grit or starstruck (and also infectious makes it much harder) - and if he brings combo, then you can forget about any sabo play.
The point is - even in this case it's far from free and in best case scenario for survivor you are able to trade (like sure, best best scenario is when you have much more time and are able to sabo it before killer can hit you once, but that opens possibility that killer will still be able to bring that survivor to different hook once he sees you start to sabo - like see my 1st paragraph)
Now compare all this "free" shenanigans compared to just regular flashlight save. Can you see the difference? Can you see how much flash save is easier in comparison?
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I play sabo a lot (being only one in a team to do that 99% of time). It's fun for me. Some maps are broken against it (looking at you dead dawg saloon) and every successful sabo on that map means HUGE screw up on killer's side. There are maps that are much better for it (like midwitch), but it still takes a lot of skill and risk taking which is fine.
I said so many times on this forum and I do think that sabo should be slightly buffed. But not the way you proposed.
The most frustrating thing is when killer picks someone from under the hook (being so close he does not see aura so he does not notice - happens e.g. when the hook is just on the other side of a wall), goes for one of the adjacent hooks which I do successfully sabo, I do take a hit to even prolong the wiggle and the killer is still able to hook on yet another one (yes - some hook spawns are this bad. This one is a rule on dead dawg instead of exception).
The second buff I would actually love to see is a fix to perk saboteur - in description it says it takes 2.5s to successfully sabotage a hook. This is a lie. It takes exactly 3s. I have it measured (with video evidence counting each frame if you need to see it). The difference is very important in case of forced hook trade (killer is carrying someone dead hook). In case sabotage would take 2.5s or even 2.7s, you would be able to take a hit and then fully sabotage hook to effectively almost guarantee wiggling free of dead teammate. As it stands, you will never finish your sabotage after the hit (provided killer is not stupid/distracted).
No other buff is needed. And "rescued" survivor not going away from the hook is a mistake on that survivor's side. There's no reason to buff length of hook sabotage (because it would open a time window to pre-sabotage all the nearby hooks around chased survivor making it unfair for killer).
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This change was very important. I absolutely dropped solo after patch 6.1, because killers were buffed too much and playing as solo meant too much pain and very little fun.
I am VERY grateful for this change. It makes soloQ at least a little bearable. It's still far from SWF level of information, but considering how strong killers after 6.1 have become, this makes the game more sensible and does not make me feel like killers have all the things stacked for them to a disgusting degree once playing solo (and they still have an edge over survivors).
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I don't like the wiggle change at all. Why even go this problematic route?
As a sabo survivor 1s shorter carry is MUCH more valuable then slightly stronger wiggling.
As a PC killer - you can catch rhythm of wiggling making it absolutely nonissue even if they made wiggle 200% stronger. All I am asking is why they even had to touch it? That 1s shorter time was perfect (actually I would make all goods take 0.5s more and all greats shave off an additional 0.5s so that normal carry is 16.5s instead of 16 and all greats 14.5s instead of 15).
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I think this would be actually good idea to implement in post game screen. A lot of people jump to conclusions - like they destroyed me, they must be SWF. They T-bag at pallets, they must be SWF. It's actually not true. Bad SWF will loose and you as a killer will not say "they must be SWF" - in fact by the reputation you will most likely say "see, soloQ is manageable. I want to know they are solos like these people".
I think the best explanation to the topic was given by Scott (the most important think to note here is that SWF indeed are much stronger, but not because of comms)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3JkgJEW9VASo giving this info into post game would actually show that SWF is not such a boogeyman as people make them to be (except the very best comp squads you will not meet in public matches).
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325728#Comment_3325728
Given that the developers nerfed this addon by making it almost useless, I wonder what players will now cry about the nurse.
The nurse itself. She will still overperform in skilled hands. But she will be much more manageable now. This was very much needed nerf. She will actually be counterable to some limited degree now. And it's not like she does not have any strong addons now. I presume immediate blink when fully charged + extended lounge will become meta on her. It's just that outplaying nurse will now have at least some more meaning then gaining 4 extra seconds
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For meyers case - bamboozle makes no sense. There's literally just one small corner it can be efficiently used. There's no point in bringing the perk. Even enduring on it's own would have higher value (not to mention any slowdown perks).
You bring up trapper (who is not as bad specifically on this map as you make him to be) but disregard nurse... Well guess what. Some killers always have an advantage (as seen by your win stats) but this levels out. In fact it's a bit worse as nurse is by far played much much more then trapper (at least in my MMR) or non-pallet Freddy (the actual killer that struggles the most on this map) - but on the other hand you have killers/build that totally dominate this map (nemesis, C33 blight, Julie's mixtape + iri button legion, ...).
For the nurse topic - we will see how she perfoms once people get used to her now. But for now my point of view is - sure. The nerf was good. They actually also listened to the PTB feedback and removed 7 blinks. That's very welcome change. She is still S-tier killer, she still has some very good addons (like the lounge and immediate blink are insane), but at least there's some counterplay now - same as blight. Now she overperfoms above all the other killers, but at least she's not from a different game strong (so cudos to developers).
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I don't even get why they changed it. Beta wiggle was much better anyway. I would always take that 1s off over more wiggle (which indeed does nothing on PC)
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325739#Comment_3325739
-"If they break the wrong ones it becomes survivor sided."
And that is what my quote out of context was referencing - survivors being able to break killer only breakable walls.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325725#Comment_3325725
Otz also claims the Game is killer sided because he won that map with Clown after kicking no pallets. Anyone care to bet 1000$ that you can play a swf of people from my friends list with clown (no pinky) and we all KNOW you are not allowed to break pallets?
Most of the map becomes an infinite loop.
Otz is a great player but sometimes he has some really goofy ideas about balance. As other people have noted : OTZ has much easier players than some of the same streamers in his region who are not fog whisperers.
So maybe he has a skewed perspective because he has easier games (either through luck or a result of rigged match making because he is a fog whisperer).
He played the map many times and explained reasons and conditions. With current meta where killers can postpone the game a lot AND you play pub matches - this map offers nothing but pallets. Meaning once they run out because eruption and call of brine prolonged the game, you have literally nothing to work with but a single LT in one corner. Also people can't really orient on that map so 3gen is very much common on the map.
I suggest you track your overall winrate on the map. You might be surprised what comes out of your own experience (but sure, the map would be very different against comp squads that know everyone will be super efficient on gens so they can predrop only).
And this all ignores nurse on this map. Getting nurse here is almost like a death sentence (if she knows at least a little how to blink). Arguably 2nd best map for her (right after midwitch)
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@JoeChill261 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325707#Comment_3325707
Being forced to 3gen or automatically lose a match, is not good design. I don't like to 3 gen on ranged killers, its boring.
The only good thing for Huntress on new Haddonfield is how open the middle is, but guess what? None of the priority generators are in the middle, nor are survivors taking chase there. Survivors run to a building as soon as they hear the hatchet wind up and 110 kilers will waste minutes entertaining a single chase in the buildings. So you are left with holding main building 3 gen, only able use your power as survivors flee your terror radius, for 40 minutes as you play kick a gen simulator.
It is a bad map design, with bad collision, just like all of their maps released since Silent Hill. As a killer main, Id honestly take back old Haddonfield over the new Haddonfield every day of the week. At least old Haddonfield had more mind-gameable tiles, and it actually felt like a neighborhood street, rather then a giant square with houses separated by the widest street ever.
And their new Eyrie fix already has hook spawn problems. Maps in this game have taken a significant downgrade in how they play after 6 years of consistent feedback, but the devs keep releasing badly designed maps. Aesthetically they look great, but they play like ass.
As surv main I would always take old haddonfield over new one. No exception to any killer. And I considered both nurse and blight (as new haddonfield is larger and nurse generally benefits a lot from small maps). The new one is much harder.
But I have to agree with you on one thing. If you break 3gen on new haddonfield (a big if mind you), the odds of escaping go up a lot. This map really is mainly about that 3-gen. But because of it it's usually killer that has the upper hand (but sure, the map is by far not as bad as say midwitch)
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325700#Comment_3325700
This addon is of no use in terms of distance; it is useless if the survivor runs straight ahead, or more exactly if he/she continues to move away from the starting point of the nurse.
Where it becomes effective is if the survivor stays in the same area.
Also, if the nurse fails to hit the survivor on the very last blink, she will suffer a very significant fatigue; this is not a deus ex machina.
Sure. Run straight. Don't even move left-right while we are at it. And see what happens. I wonder if you last more then 10s.
Going back at nurse or at least not away from her 100% of the time is essential part of dodging her. If you want to remove this, then you need to make her lounge be like 50% distance AND make her lounge work only after she fully materializes (that's no longer true as of 5.5 patch) - adding a small delay to attack after blink. Otherwise you only have loose-loose options with this blink. Because this addon basically tells you to always guess survivor hold W forward, or you get your power back without any real delay
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325482#Comment_3325482
Letting survivors break doors would ruin the breakable wall aspect of maps like The Game. Maps like Dead Dawg Saloon would be even more survivor favored because breaking the wrong wall can create a stronger loop for survivors.
"even more survivor sided"....
https://youtu.be/lIzwuFOOYiI?t=6022nd most killer sided map according to well know killer main that plays all killers...
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Yes. Lockers are really bad on the map. But huntress complaining about this map? I would fully understand dredge. But huntress? C'mon. The map has just 1 drawback for you and it's those lockers. Perfect 3gen you can defend from virtually everywhere worth being. Like really? Huntress complains about this map?
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@Warlord1981NL said:
There's A LOT of pallets on the map. And I mean A LOT A LOT.
There is a perk that allows you to restore pallets, it is called: Any Means Necessary
Sure. 8 pallets/map as you can get on shelter woods is "a lot lot". Some maps are notoriously bad for very low number of pallets. Don't pretend like every map is the game.
Anyway survivors wasting more time picking pallets that killer deemed not good enough to break sounds more like noob-trap then a feature
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@Carth said:
If a killer is dedicating 50%+ of their loadout to auras you don't get to hard counter it with 25% of your loadout
This is not entirely fair argument. By the same argument we should remove shattered hope's secondary effect as 1 killer perk can potentially fully block 16 survivor perks without even need to recharge it or something. The thing is, that aura perks are still not meta so it's actually a gamble to take it - and it being a gamble that does not even work (even for yourself - not even for whole team for everyone) feels really bad. To clarify - I am not arguing for buffing distortion, but I am arguing against your argument.
@Audiophile said:
I decided to try using it for a while after my post on killer aura perks. While it has potential I found it to be too weak vs killers with multiple aura perks (like huntress). In short, the 3 tokens are used up way too quickly so I have to move into her terror radius to build them up again, only to have them depleted quickly yet again. The perk needs more tokens or a different system for building them up.
I think distortion provides good value as is. Adding multiple more tokens would make it hard to counter. I would be OK with maybe adding single more token to the perk to make it more viable - or rather, adjust 1 of those 2 perks so that lethal does not consume 2 tokens. But adding too many tokens means survivor can hide indefinitely if he's not doing gens. That's very much not fun and borderline hostage taking the game. Also if devs want to buff the perk, adding token or length of invisibility should be the only way to go. Making it quicker to recharge would create scenario where survivor can hide indefinitely. It's already very hard to drain all the tokens in endgame when survivors are just hiding.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325257#Comment_3325257
-"there is always *a generator* at gallows"
This is not correct.
I have yet to see a single spawn of map without one. For me it would be so shocking as main not spawning one
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@Little_Kitten said:
The current nurse, despite her range and recharge add-ons, can well be challenged if the survivors on the other side are competent and organised.
The future nurse; the one of 6.5.0; will no longer have these addons, and can therefore be put in even more difficulty if the survivors are competent and organised.
The nurse of 6.5.0 does not need to be nerfed.
The survivors need to get better against her.
Her new addons are even worse then current range/recharge. I would much rather play against double range nurse (which IS OP - especially on small maps like dead dawg, the game or #1 winner midwitch), then 7 blink nurse. Like what is counterplay against that? Outplay her all 4 times you have to? (you have to double back so she can get back - otherwise you are predictable = dead, 1 blink to get close twice, 1x blink to return and recharge all blinks - 4 regular blinks you as a survivor just have to outplay).
You need to be very bad to loose with 7blink nurse.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325233#Comment_3325233
It can't be 1% as I played that game back to back recently and neither version had it. Sometimes you can only get a 3 gen on DD but most of the time you have a 4 gen on the "3 gen side".
If there are 4 gens on that side the map is ok because you can basically ignore the building.
Ah. I misunderstood you. What I meant is there is always *a generator* at gallows - not necessarily 3gen (but that one is pretty common).
Sure enough, sometimes you have a bit different 3gen like 1 at watertower, 1 at road near water tower and 1 at crossroad. Or 1 of those not being there but building next to shack (away from main) has one or the gen is below it (so less visibility, but same distance) or building at crossroads (same thing). So 5-6 gen spawn points outside of standard 3gen. And also at the other side of road you can get 3 gens (one directly at the road, 1 on a building or just below it and one at next loop). Those are standard 3gens - all of which within about 20m of each other. I have hardly ever seen spawn where no 3gen happens on this map (but technically it's possible and headonfield has higher "chance" to spawn it - even if it's not as bad)
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325039#Comment_3325039
-"As for Dead Hard, bit of a false equivalence, and one perk being OP (supposedly) wouldn't mean another perk can't also be OP."
Not to mention the justification of one broken perk does not make up for the angst caused by the other. Anyone remember 2016 NOED? It was literally the "payback" mechanic that made the game fair. You had your fun before the generators got powered but then playtime was over with never ending NOED and 9% movement speed.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324957#Comment_3324957
You can't change your perks to play this way mid game. They also nerfed a number of maps to make the 3 gen strat less viable. Sometimes no generator spawns at hangman on DD Saloon. RPD can only have 1 generator in the main room (this was terrible nerf to the map).
There are a number of maps where you can't 3 gen unless the survivors are very bad at the game.
exactly. Survivor can't change build to combat it. Killer can come fully prepared and survivors will probably only try in vain to break it. It's usually stalemate or survivors slowly dying.
Also I have NEVER seen no gen on hangman's. And I play the map a lot. This means the chance must be less then 1%.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324490#Comment_3324490
Making you lose the ability to do anything for ~20 seconds is a strong deterrent. That needs to have a fair replacement.
Unless we change killer regression to be 1:1 base then 30 seconds of generator regression is nothing. I would say 60 seconds is too long and 30 seconds is too short.
-"45s is way too long for stall given 3gen scenario"
Survivors leaving a three gen is the equivalent of the killer hooking one person three times. It's a mistake you must avoid.
again. Killers can camp 3gen from the start of the game (leaving 4 gens for free repair) and some do exactly that AND win the games this way. There's no mistake on survivor side for this design problem. There's no way to combat it except predicting it and taking some perks/items exactly for this scenario (BNP, potential energy, proof, etc)
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324500#Comment_3324500
-"What does main's gen matter when killer can ignore it and ez win the game regardless?"
Efficient survivors will always break the corner three gen first. And then you have nothing. Killing one survivor early is roughly equal to losing the only viable three gen on that map - unless you are Blight or Nurse in which case almost any three generators are always close enough for you to patrol.
nah. There's possible 3gen at road opposite to water tower. Also there are no gens diagonally from water tower. That 3gen is just plain unfair, but all the gens are always close together. So it's not just break that 3gen (like on headonfield) and then you are OK
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323872#Comment_3323872
DD saloon also has an incredibly one sided main building. The building is so strong that most killer can never even consider contesting the generator on the second floor of that building.
But let me guess you think that's fine?
We see the same problem with the Garden of Joy Map. We have exactly the same problem in the disturbed Ward map that can have 2 generators spawn in an incredibly strong main building.
Most people don't remember DBD when it was in this state:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmvZBoy5XbE
This might not be the most fair example because : Spine Chill and resilience gave 15% vault speed and all vaults were always fast vaults.
The idea to take from this is that this style of window was deemed : unfair. And yet we have this window as a possibility in three places in one building on the Garden of Joy Map.
What you don't see in this video is that there was also an infinite loop upstairs. There is always one window closed upstairs on the Ironworks map because it used to be an infinite loop. Notice how slowly the wraith vaults? That was the old speed and it allowed for two adjacent windows to be an infinite loop with nothing else.
There are 7 gens. Guaranteed 3gen near gallows. What does main's gen matter when killer can ignore it and ez win the game regardless? Also most killers have a way to combat main's infinite. It's actually very few killers that can't - only slow M1 killer that can't shoot or trap a spot (basically only onryo and Freddy, maybe demogorgon) - those have to ignore main. Everyone else have ways to combat it.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/361735/eruption-rework-suggestion
The eruption rework could be very simple.
1) Remove the ability for survivors to do other actions when the trapped generator explodes.
2) Change the effect so that the generator cannot be interrupted from the regression state for 45 seconds.
3) Anyone actively repairing a generator when the trap is set of has a -15% generator repair modifier during the next 45 seconds.
4) Increase cooldown of Eruption to 45 seconds.
5) Now we have a perk that prevents you from working on the generator you want to work on that affects SWF and solo players equally.
This would encourage survivors to heal instead of rushing generators which would put the game in a healthier place.
Generally agreed. With the exception, that 45s is way too long for stall given 3gen scenario. Again - hitting 3 gens close together does not take that long. And having 3/4 of fully stacked no way out for like 15s time investment (that gets refunded by CoB and other regression perks) just creates same scenario why people currently hate eruption. Also 30+s of free chase time after every down for a single perk is not very cool. But say the eruption got 30s cd and it going on cd after every kick - it would mean that there would be some reasonable time that 1 or 2 gens are still not blocked...
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323902#Comment_3323902
Except this isn't unfair. Devs said so. You'll have to get over it.
Considering same logic, devs should implement something to fully circumvent fully-stacked "no way out" that by no means can take more then 5*4=20s (and could be potentially done in those 5s if all 4 survivors do that counter-tactics), because that's by the same logic also fair.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323904#Comment_3323904
Stats from when/where?
What were the parameters of the test? This is important because they almost never give us good details which means an incorrect conclusion could be drawn from the data.
@McDoobz said:
In June, we brought major changes to the game. At the time, we stated that one of the main objectives behind the meta-shifting perk overhaul and base gameplay changes was to improve the overall kill rate (how many Survivors are killed each trial, on average). As stated in our most recent stats post , we did achieve that goal and as you’ll see in the below graphs, the kill rate continues to hover around the 59% to 61% range (up from a 51% to 53% range).
In the context of this new meta, many of you have been expressing that you’d like to see where each killer’s kill rate now stands. So, we’ve compiled the most recent data to share with you.
We’ve created two charts to help you visualize and analyze these stats:
- The first chart represents the kill rate broken down by killer, for all players (all Matchmaking Ratings), for the period of September 2022.
- The second chart also represents the kill rate broken down by killer for the same period, but only for players in the top 5% MMR.
Some things to keep in mind as you consult these charts:
- We rounded up some of the kill rates to make the charts below easier to read (only values ≥ 0.95 were rounded up). Scroll past the charts for exact kill rate values for each data set.
- It’s worth noting that many factors are taken into account when it comes to balancing killer powers and character perks, not only data.
- As always, we are monitoring our overall game balance on an ongoing basis and taking your feedback into account when evaluating whether or not design changes should be made. So please keep sharing your thoughts and experiences with us! We read you daily and relay your feedback to the appropriate people on a regular basis.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GOYEKDMA1XC3/microsoftteams-image-2873-29.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QBAVCNOU4QO5/microsoftteams-image-2875-29.png
EXACT KILL RATE & PICK RATE VALUES BY MMR
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LRXX3PMFOM90/tablekr3.png
We hope you enjoy studying these numbers as much as we do!
Until next time...
The Dead by Daylight team
I made a leap to actually call best 5% of killers high MMR. I think that's not that big of a leap...
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323923#Comment_3323923
What do you mean zero good reason not to tunnel? I would personally do more to prevent tunneling don’t get me wrong, but there are more reasons not to tunnel than pre 6.1. OTR is literally just a better DS and they implemented base kit BT as well. It’s harder to tunnel now than it was pre 6.1. Also, survivor queues are much longer than killers for me, my killer queues are instant. I’m not sure where you would get from their changes that they don’t care about survivor experiences. If anything their patches are generally much harsher on killers.
About tunnel - if you are trying to win, you have exactly 0 reasons to not tunnel. There is no advantage in going for someone else over going for freshly unhooked one. Especially if you camp (no matter if proxy or face) - you just hit said survivor at the same moment as he goes off from hook to disable built-in endurance or BT or OTR (making OTR just 80s old Iron will - making it FAR WORSE then old DS to actually deincentivize tunneling) - after this is done, survivor has a few meters head start, but has no DH and no other protection (save for DS just to reenable DH). Why would any tryhard killer ever decide to go for anyone else but the freshly unhooked person? Deleting 1 person from the game at 3+ gens left is autowin. Deleting 2+ people at 1+ (but not almost complete) gen is also autowin. So what should be the reason to ever NOT go for the freshly unhooked person? I see only one reason and that would be - you made a wrong pick of survivor and actually you selected the only person from survivor's team that is in fact good at looping and going for anybody else would be easier (but this assumes you actually did not leave the chase you should have left before).
Before patch 6.1 optimal strategy was to go for unhooker instead of person that just got unhooked, because going for unhooked would be actually quite a heavy time-sink (after your whole chase with survivor, he would just reset it back to 0 when you pick him up with quite a heavy head-start to get away). So instead optimal strategy was to forget about hooked person and go for anybody else - because first minute after unhook was basically dead time - and this is the main reason why so many people complain about tunneling after patch 6.1. Because optimal default strategy is to tunnel instead of going for anybody else (even if other survivors bodyblock to the point of them letting themselves go down).
And as for queue times - EU servers during day outside of 7pm to like maybe 10pm (a bit more during weekend) - survivor queues are always way quicker then killer's and incentives are always on killer. In the "exception time", most of the time incentives are still on survivor side, but not always and usually not 100% as are for the rest of the time. At 10am (and not just at 10) you are GUARANTEED to have instant survivor queue and 100% incentives. No exceptions ever.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324077#Comment_3324077
It is not guaranteed. It is all but guaranteed. This because killers telegraph their strikes. It takes quite a long while from the click to start the hit. It doesn't take much practice to get it down pat. And if you are acting in good faith why are you bringing up situations where DH doesn't apply. I don't bring up situations where Eruption doesn't apply.
"Heck, if BT isn't in the match" I have never seen that. And I mean that in the literal sense. Every single match, no exceptions, I play multiple survivors bring it.
But you seem to forget that unlike with Dead Hard where there is only one killer to deal with and as such wastes 2.7 seconds every single time it occurs, Eruption doesn't disable the entire survivor team. In the vast majority of cases if it hits then it'll hit one survivor, not the other 3 that will still be doing whatever it is that they are doing. If you are exceedingly lucky as a killer it'll hit 2 survivors but that also means that the other half of the team is still out there doing their thing, buying you as the killer a little bit of time. Personally, I have only had it happen once, and granted: a fond memory it is, where my Eruption hit 2 survivors. 3 simply doesn't occur.
Now I get what you are saying concerning consistency but this is a risk/reward situation where the risk of having those if's gives a good strong effect when it does hit. So I remain of the opinion that it is balanced. Big risk of being a dud with a mere 10% regression, big reward in the few cases where it does hit.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323910#Comment_3323910
I didn't say 5 gens in 8 minutes. I said 1 gen in 8 minutes. You said the match lasted 40 minutes. 40 minutes divided by 5 generators equals 8 minutes per generator. That is one hell of a lot of time.
First of all, you shouldn't be 3-manning a generator ever but secondly, that simply doesn't happen. I invite all killers on this forum that have ever used Eruption to list the number of games they have played with it and list the number of times Eruption hit 3 survivors. Because you'll be seeing a lot of 0 times happened ever. Like I said earlier, I had one single occurance where it hit 2 and I have been using Eruption forever.
In the last paragraph you make several mistakes. Besides the fact that hitting 3 survivors is straight up fantasy and the fact that the disable lasts 25 seconds, not 40, that doesn't mean you get a cumulative gameslow down, the slow down is still only 25 seconds and frankly not even that as then you simply do something else like getting yourself in position to rescue the hooked survivor, find a different gen to work on, etc. By the time you are done repossitioning the disable effect will be over. You are exaggerating the effects of Eruption in the extreme. You make it sound like all you can do is stand next to the gen. This is a bad idea in and of itself because if the explosion hits, the killer will see you are there and if you are still around then the killer will be on you. Now I understand how that game lasted 40 minutes if that is how you played. This is just bad gameplay on your behalf and has nothing to do with Eruption.
Also, complaining about 3-gens is about as useful as complain about shack loop. Yes, it is strong but not unbeatable. You'll have to find a way to make it work. Don't blame the killer for doing his job. I don't blame survivors for making use of loops despite of how annoying, and frankly lame, it is.
As for 8mins - I understood it. I meant doing 5 gens for 8 mins each which is of course those 40 minutes.
From my experience you are just plain wrong. 3man eruption happens to 3gen campers (the people that will decide to camp their 3gen from the moment game spawns them) literally every other game. If you play normally, this does not happen that often (or it might even be rare), because you will not even kick all 3 gens as going for it will require you to actually patrol gens even when you see survivors nearby (and yet some killers do exactly this - they don't chase. They just kick gens and that's it).
Also I wasn't talking about 3manning single gen. I was talking about doing 2 or 3 gens out of last 3 (it does not even need to be last 3, but it needs to be all 3 of the 3gen) - but if all of them are kicked, then hitting all 3 other survivors with it is not that difficult - especially with efficient survivors that will hop on gen immediately when killer is not within 5m of a gen (to actually try to break it).
About slowdown - it is potentially 40,25s exactly per hit survivor. 25s of incapacitated (and no you can't do anything - not even heal - but move on a map and go for unhook - which means fully wasted time for 2/3 survivors and partially wasted for that 3rd as he comes way too soon) + 9s instant regression (10% from 90s gen) + 6,25s normal regression when you can't stop it after explosion, because you are in fact incapacitated. So once again your 25s are WAY OFF. Also when you are incapacitated you might as well stand next to gen. Because what is the alternative when you are trying to break 3gen? Running around headless? Going 3 people for single rescue? Heal-but-oh-you-can't? Tell me what should I do in fact that's not actually doing the same as standing next to gen?
And about 3gen not being unbeatable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv3I9hHLblEAlso Hens wasn't trying to win. If he wanted to, he had whole hour to do so. He deliberately let them pick-up and heal and so on just to hold the game hostage...
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323667#Comment_3323667
It’s actually 3 seconds not 2, but yeah I’d buff it back to 5 seconds myself. OTR is actually extremely good though. If someone is getting tunneled off the hook with OTR and they’re a good player that tunnel is costing them nearly an entire extra gen. OTR is a good perk in general is the point though, those other perks you mentioned for countering survivors holding the game hostage are bad perks in general. By this I mean it’s not a negative for you as survivor to run those, but it is a negative as a killer to run those.
Both are issues that need fixes at base though and shouldn’t require perks.
it's 2s. First second you are locked in animation making it "useless time". For all intends and purposes you can consider DS to be 2s instead of 3 (with maybe exception of your team progressing the gen 1s longer). If survivor did not get any drop animation after DS was used OR if he could actually move during the animation, then we could talk about 3s effect.
As it stands, DS is almost a joke. It's all about if you have 2 other perks that make it kind-of usable to some limit (where DS's role is not the stun any more, but reset to bleeding status), or if you somehow fell down next to pallet (well power struggle would do the same job) or window, but it's at most 1-time use now.
DS nerf is another reason why I think devs don't really take into account survivor's expecience at all. The one reason why killers did not tunnel pre 6.1 is gone. There's 0 good reasons why not tunnel. And people are now surprised why so many killers tunnel and why killer queues take longer then survivors most of the time. Well good morning. How could it be any different?
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323742#Comment_3323742
Yeah not buying that. My games, win or lose, last no longer than 15 minutes.
But lets assume that what you are saying is true... You telling me 4 people can't do 8 minutes per gen... You have bigger problems than 1 perk not being total trash like every other killer perk.
If I could get 40k for objectives category alone, I would - and I was one of the people that died sooner. Yes I can't do 5 gens in 8 minutes, because I don't bring 4 BNP's in case killer brings Eruption+CoB+map with close gens together and camp them. You can't go near gen without getting hit once, because they are so close together. And you can't really work on a gen for longer time, because eruption/CoB will reset them to 0. The only chance you get is totally outplaying the killer so that he can't even hit you (read new killer player - the game is designed so that killer should get survivor eventually) - and once this happens, then the forum is full of killer main asking to shrink the maps, make weaker loops and remove pallets.
But what will happen when the devs actually decide to go with it? Nothing - the cycle will just repeat. It will be just even less skilled killers complaining about even stronger survivors, that they are not able to lend a single hit. Because the fundamental problem is, that killers can sometimes hold the objective indefinitely (Hens made a video about that one with knight), so it's just a matter of time until killer gets his 3/4K.
Also eruption slows down the game by up to 40s for each survivor hit (so if 3 survivors are working each on his own's gen and killer hits 4th, killer will get equivalent of 120,75s game slowdown just from this perk). And YES. This DOES happen. Especially for killers that do camp their 3gens (some of them from the very start of the game - not giving any chance to break it - making perks like dejavu about as good as very time-limited 5% repair speed boost).
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323754#Comment_3323754
Sorry no lol. It's still survivor sided.
It's less abusive to killers if you are playing Nurse/Blight.
Pallets were a joke in 2016 and had a massively smaller hitbox requiring a skillshot that most people missed 95% of the time. They also stunned on a delay - not instantly.
60%.... In high elo more precisely 61%... The game is objectively killer sided
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323447#Comment_3323447
No, this is just playing well. I know... I know... You don't have to tell me, I know survivors hate it when killers play well but that is merely what it is. You'll just have to deal with it. Survivor's exploit so much ######### it isn't even funny, don't see how you even dare complain about this...
Sure. Just about the same as hatch that could open for whole team - that was also "good play from survivors". And for some unfathomable reason devs decided to actually remove it from the game. Maybe because it was actually unfair.
Imagine survivors could do some abuse like this for no-way-out. Would you be OK if survivors could say touch some finished gen (other then the last finished one) for like 5 seconds and then gate to prevent the perk from activating? Because it would be "big brain" to touch it instead of going for gate immediately. Well think again - it's end game perk that can activate exactly once. You need to earn it (stay alive until this point/hook survivors before last gen pops) and you call it "big brain" to be actually able to totally turn the perk off? I call that bullshit mechanics
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321148#Comment_3321148
I would say eruption == to dead hard(both versions of dh). both perks slow the other sides objective down and both perks are activated by the other side succeeding their indirect objective. In my personal opinion, DH is stronger then eruption because the survivor does not need to go out of their way to activate DH while the killer does have to go out of their way to kick gens.
only if DH made no animation and lasted way longer. Then we could talk that it's comparable.
Also Eruption is 100% stronger in this meta, because you can't mix DH with sprint and lithe, but you can do so for eruption basically watering down the "negative" to something to laugh at. There's a huge number of killers that figured out chases are not as important as kicking the gen and will drop the chase just to move 5s away, kick the gen and then start new chase - because it's still worth it running multiple regression perks.
If there was "exhaustion" mechanics for eruption, CoB, Overcharge, Jolt and pain resonance, then the perks would also be actually comparable.
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Also your comments make very much not sense. The game usually ends up in killer's win. So no. you are totally misguided
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Sure. Dead dawg being fair. Even Otz - killer main that definitely will not stand side to survivors will tell you dead dawg is very strong for killer
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@Dream_Whisper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323801#Comment_3323801
Sometimes tell me, you never play killer enough in high level and understand the huge value this one boon perk brings. It is in the meta, when it comes to huge percentage usages and it is almost common in every game that one or two Survivors are bringing it. You rarely seen anyone use any other healing perks, unless they have a medkit or perk build involved. It's really not that hard to play the game regularly and know where typically totem spawns are, same for gens; but if you are that clueless, bringing Detective Hunch or small game can help you find totems with ease and get familiar the worse/best totem spawns. It even much better for survivors then killer, as they have 4v1 and have time to run around, look for totems and choose where to bless or cleansed; especially when the killer is busy in chase with another. Obviously, in some maps especially indoor maps; the totems spawns are not easy to figure out and takes alot of time which is wasted compare to the insane value a boon perk could save back when you need to eliminate healing slowly.
Think back:
It takes you a minute or two, to run around and find totems; when it should take you less then that if you know the totem spawn well. But, when you bless CoH into the game; you are giving yourself and team a very powerful time saver benefit of healing 50% faster in that one area (or more areas if multiple Survivors are bringing CoH). Your argument that is it "high risk, high reward" is laughably, as it literally as no risk when it can stay active in a place the killer will mostly not going to out of their way to go snuff. In fact, the best way to counter CoH is to simple identify the booner survivor and tunnel and kill them as fast as possible. Snuffing totem is almost as pointless what old gen kicking regression used to do, where it didn't take away 2.5% progress before.
Also, stop bringing up the 60% Kill rate; it is irrelevant as it validate my point that killers more likely camp, tunnel survivors more often due to the existence of CoH and medkits and shutting down hit and run play styles. I am aware of the Eruption/gen kicking meta; but you need to also balance out both sides metas also; and CoH is definitely a problem; no matter if you agree or disagree.
TBH I play more killer then survivor now, because survivors are so nerfed, that I stopped playing solo altogether.
As stated before - sure if boon stands, it provides very good value. The problem is "when it stands". And as stated before - this takes a lot of time and has a lot of conditions. Sure if killer is guarding his 3gen for 20 minutes, then sure he will not have time to go and snuff it. But the problem is that killer can hold his 3gen for 20 minutes. That's something devs should actually fix. You can have very good chase just for killer to realize he was not strong enough so he returns to his 3gen and regresses it again to 0. Survivors not being able to do anything else will use whatever they get - reset too. But in this case regression is the main problem that created this scenario. Not boon. In normal game boon should be usable basically as a better version (again - when it stands) of we will make it.
Also I know all the totem spawns. But it does not matter - killers cry that it takes too much time to get to totem where you know the position. But consider it from other side - on average map there's 20-30 totem spawns out of which only 5 will actually contain the totem. Getting to each spot takes 10s. Half the time you need to run around obstacles to actually find it (another 5-10s) and you need to do this on average 4-6x -> this alone takes 1-1,5 minutes JUST TO FIND TOTEM - if you know the spots. That is unfeasible. So instead you don't ever go looking for totems just for boons. You look for totems during game. Which again means you could potentially have many problems (plaything, inner healing, overzealous, ...). The perk is indeed good. But nowhere near as good as you make it sound. In fact I have won MANY games thanks to survivors being hell-bent on doing boons instead of gens.
Also it's not "high risk, high reward". It's high risk good reward. As I already said. Plague/legion, insta-kill killers, not leaving chase, tunneling of hook, plaything or other totem-destroying perk, etc - there are many situations where the perk will be useless or almost useless. This is the high risk. Not the part that killer can interrupt you or stomp it (that's also risk, but not that high). Now compare it to eruption which has just one risk - survivors could be SWF so sometimes (and not even always) they will know when to dodge it and that's it.
And no I will compare it to eruption and mention 60% all the time. Because all the threads here just want more nerfs to survivors. Because 60% kill rate means killers need more power. That's the idea you get when you read threads in this forum.
EDIT: Fixed typos and clarified sentence
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I presume most people that cry nerf COH don't play the perk. The perk takes way too long to get value out of. Finding totem takes ages. Using known totem position makes no sense, as killer will snuff it.
Sure when it's up and killer doesn't know it, the perk is great. However whenever you need to heal, the perk is just not available.
Also. I will trade any time all boon perks for this regression meta. The game is absolutely obnoxious. CoH does not do enough to offload it by far. If killer decides to just not leave the person, you get 0 value out of ANY heal perks. If killer tunnels, you get 0 value. If killer takes shattered hope, you get almost 0 value, but quite some negative value. If you are on farm map and totems spawn in corn - you get almost 0 value. If anyone takes totem-destroy perk (inner healing/overzealous) you get almost 0 value. If you spawn on map like lerys, you will not find totem in minutes so again very little value (and yet killers hear it from distance so it does not matter to them). The perk is high risk good reward (not even high reward because of 2 nerfs already). On the other hand perks like DS are now "fine", because killers don't need to even think about it - most of the times it prolongs the chase by 5s (especially against nurse). But sure "CoH is problem". But 60% kill rate and eruption/CoB/OC is "fine"
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322629#Comment_3322629
It's not that much when you take in count survivors can stop the regression by simply tapping the gen and two survivors without any perk, item or checks can do in 53 seconds what CoB + OC reverts in 2:40 (2:42 in reality, as I forgot that OC go up by 25% regression every 6 seconds instead of gradually going up like I did, so it's 100% at 6 seconds and 125% at 12). That's the factual and mathematical truth as we have seen. Repair speed it's not only very fast, it's too fast.
So yeah, change Eruption and stackable regression, but do something about gen progression too.
That would be true if killer mains did not convince devs that having 3gens within 20m on half the maps is good idea. As it stands it's not killer's 1s and survivor can work then for 1s. It's killers stay in 3gen and if anybody comes close, he will get injure (and then possible quick down which will reset everything with eruption).
If the devs at least made it so, that any 2 gens can't be closer together then 20m, then your math could MAYBE POTENTIALLY work. As it stands, killer can regress 2-3 gens at the same time AND "freeze" + regress them after down. But having 7 gens 20m apart would be impossible on some maps, because again - killers convinced devs, that maps like midwitch are actually good size for the game.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321727#Comment_3321727
-"Looks like somebody pretends to have played this game from the very beginning."
Pretends?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/W3YPYR210SYI/legacy-anon.png
Before they announced Legacy I had every perk on every character. Had I prestiged my characters instead I would have had legacy 3 on every character.
I have legacy weapons for all the killers and a full set on 1 survivor/killer.
That only means you forgot how the game played when it was new. The game was heavily survivor sided. And it got swapped. Now it's killer sided and for some weird reasons devs are happy about it
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323649#Comment_3323649
Ok, BT by itself on 1 player is not overpowered. The problem arrises when there are multiples in the match. Taking down a survivor takes an extra hit. This might not sound like a whole lot but it in fact is as you, as the killer, have to do it for 3 hooks that take 3 hits each now instead of 2 times 4 survivors. When you hit you do whatever it is in the swing-cooldown period which lasts 2.7 seconds.
This mean that if everything goes to plan and I strike perfectly in that I never miss then we are talking:
2.7 x 3 x 3 x 4 = 97.2 seconds standing around doing f all, instead of
2.7 x 3 x 2 x 4 = 64.8 seconds...
This assumes perfection from both sides, but that doesn't matter because as survivors will sometimes have bad timing with their DH, so will the killer with his strikes.
And you lot complain about Eruption miracling a hit every now and again. This doesn't disable your entire team where Dead Hard literally causes this effect on all of the killer as it provides, as you can see, provides a much greater delay. At will and for free, no if's involved. It's cummulative effect is insane. So if DH isn't overpowered then neither is Eruption. Can't have it both ways.
Borrowed Time is overpowered because of the body blocking that it enables and thereby wasting the even more hit recovery time on the killer. Body blocking is a stupid concept that shouldn't be in this game in the first place but BHVR doesn't seem to think it is absurd for people to jump in front of chainsaws, knives, swords, maces and whatnot. That 10 seconds it grants is bogus. Taking a hit for someone else should be at great peril, especially when the exit gates are open this is particularly annoying with the sprint survivors get from being hit which generally results in: invulnerable by BT... invulnerable by DH... hit... sprint past someone else who then body blocks... its a bunch of bullshit. Body blocking should carry WAY more risk than it currently does... Absolutely ridiculous.
I just finished 40mins game. Against blight. He was REALLY BAD. But we played RPD. With bad spawns. All gens but 1 (so 6) were close together. And you guessed it - killer had eruption and call of brine. No matter how bad killer, he WILL eventually get you. He will eventually get rid and eat all the pallets. And no you just can't do the gens in the meantime because killers convinced all the devs that maps are way too small so getting from one gen to another now takes 5s. We were still able to do 4 gens. But hell 40 minutes game. How is this healthy?
The perk is HARD carrying some killers. Making the game MISERABLE.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321643#Comment_3321643
Not really an exploit, just good game sense. A bit like using old DH to whiff killer powers. A mechanic that probably needs fixing but any players using it this way are completely valid while it exists.
They would have to rework Adrenaline to fix this, likely involving Endurance in some way.
That's one possibility. Another one is "activating" survivor a little bit before killer's drop animation - so that survivor has enough time to run away that killer's immediate M1 does not reach him. You don't even need to adjust the time that much. Survivor will be moving at 150% speed so it's just very minor
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320687#Comment_3320687
-"The mode would be very quickly very bad nightmare to balance"
So it would be just like 4v1 in that regard. I see no problem here.
Playing Killer feels boring because you have no team and are always outplayed by those that have a team. Watching these videos makes me just want to play the other game coming out because we can play killer as a team.
"-nightmare to balance and to make it make sense + fix all the bugs and unintended behaviors."
Giving your killer partner increased move speed while you are using Agitation is a cool feature. Killer has almost no synergy with most of its perks by design (so that you don't run too many slow downs).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320691#Comment_3320691
-"This would only work as a limited time mode for maybe a week."
I have lets say 50 people on my steam friends list who own DBD. About 90% of them are people I've met in the last year to play with.
At least 10 people on my list are killer mains who gave up on DBD because the game has shifted to make the survivor experience more fun for nearly six years straight with little variation. I think most of them would be immediately down to play 2v8 because it would be fun.
DBD does not feel like a party game when you play killer vs a SWF team on voice coms. Give the killer a partner to play on voice coms with and more people will want to play killer again.
"-After that I guarantee it would turn into blight/blight, nurse/nurse, etc."
Leatherface is probably one of the stongest killers at the start of the game but Micahel would be one of the strongest killers by the middle of the match. With two full sets of survivors to stalk from he could easily get to infinite T3 tombstone. That's actually way more powerful than Nurse/Blight plebs who need to hook people three times.
Just imagine it now - they make a game mode to make one of the most underrated/under used killers really strong. People buy that killer and bring around his resurgence.
The killers that mostly suck now would still suck in 2v8 but DBD is in its worst meta state ever. Survivors tunnel generators to break three gen setups and killers tunnel out survivors because their gens are getting rushed.
There are so many people to chase in a 2v8 that you're never going to need to camp as you have so much to do.
Looks like somebody pretends to have played this game from the very beginning.
Being able to loop same 2 windows in shack without any limit or any bloodlust fast vaulting all the time (there's no other vault type) or using hell of a more pallets on the map, while only needing to hold M1 on a gen for 60s would 100% be more fun then current eruption 3-gen eternal holding & kicking meta.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321237#Comment_3321237
So, you basically play high mobility, top tier killers including the one killer with highest killrate... I think my point has being proved.
Meaning nerf that killer as he's OP? He's not even the worst offender. That place belongs to nurse. And no. Even blight is fine provided that perks like Eruption would become reasonable instead of their current state.
@Warlord1981NL said:
yeah I agree, killers have 1 perk that doesnt completely suck, we cant be having that... killers shouldnt get any kills... whats next? killers can only move backwards?
You make it sound like killers were nerfed 100 times and the game is now heavily survivor sided. I would advice you to actually check old DBD clips from the beginning of this game (like from 2016). This would be a nice reminder that it's actually survivors that are being CONSTANTLY nerfed. You can't even realistically compare the game from that time to this one. 60% kill rate being just one prime example and constant survivor incentives (even if survivor games are quicker then killer's) just underlying the state we are in right now.
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This would be nightmare to balance. Map size, number of gens and times, interaction when stacking (do we get 6-sided gens?), unintended combos (twins with legion hunting together), unintended powers (legion would be so damn strong as hitting 4 people would suddenly be so much easier), some perks help killer (say bamboozle) but some are global (say thana) which means all "global" perks just got huge buff because they help also the other killer and so on.
The mode would be very quickly very bad nightmare to balance and to make it make sense + fix all the bugs and unintended behaviors.
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@Batusalen said:
They would be similar if it wasn't because the "40 seconds" wasted is only true if you are hit by it and was repairing the generator alone without any perk or toolbox, countering it by repairing can be done in 33 seconds with two other survivors and PT, and the killer didn't have to take time to kick the gen for it to be active in that gen, which can be a gen that already has 90% of progress.
The most close equivalent for a Mettle of Man for killers would be "When survivors complete 3 gens, the next gen they complete regress to 0% and should be repaired again".
25s incap + 9s instant regression + 6s normal regression that you can't stop because incapacitated. So no. It's 40 seconds and not 33s. Also it can hit up-to 3 survivors for this value (which can very easily happen when defending last 3gen).
The perk when paired with OC+CoB is just *WAAAAY TOO OP* . It would be fine on it's own, but not when it can stack with other stuff. Defending 3gen indefinitely is not that hard. It's time to nerf it somehow (at least create something like exhaustion that survivors have - it would be also very unfair if survivors could use at the same time DH, sprint, lithe and balanced landing.
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@dollidahlia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310967#Comment_3310967
1.) I couldn’t care less about the nurse nerf, it’s more annoying that after she got nerf, instead of enjoying the fact that nurse finally got nerfed, survivors would rather just skip and go to the next killer who needs nerfs
survivor mains only care about themselves. They never advocate for any of the weak killers to get buffed like trapper or pig. And instead make post about deleting killers because “I can’t loop it”
so yes, I’m dramatic that killers are getting nerfed 1 by 1. But you lack empathy, narcissistic tendencies of course.
Litterally proven wrong in this very thread. Pyramidhead (one of few killers I don't own) needs better addons (from survivor main that currently plays more killer to experience easy matches for a change).
Literally this exact thing makes you a cry baby.