Gandor
Gandor
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Looks like they "fixed it". Right now wesker no longer grabs such survivor. He will instead bounce away from them (instead of hitting them).
Also I found yet another bug regarding wesker and his power - when vaulting with it, it used to be impossible for survivor to vault back so long as wesker does not move. Well this is no longer true - survivors can immediately vault back (looks like wesker looses collision now)
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@Halloulle said:
Imo CoH is fine. - If anything totem spawn locations have to be reworked since some spawns are just not viable in terms of removing the boon. - Who tf walks all the way up in IWOM just to snuff the boon? Sure, if you're already up there might as well do it - but just for the sake of the boon it's a massive detour. These "god spots" for boons are also not all equally good "god spawns" for hexes. If your hex is up in IWOM you probs won't be able to keep it for long.
Killers seem to often forget that the whole finding a totem, setting up the boon and getting back to work takes time. - Survs often having to cross the entire map to get to the boon to heal is also not exactly inexpensive in terms of time. - And time is an important resource. It does get a bit ridiculous when two or more people bring a boon --- but at the same time you can be almost certain these people are either solo (and thus generally not as oppressive to begin with) or would find other ways to pull off whatever little game they've come up with.
This. Most killers see 21s to heal. In practice healing with boon takes anyhting between 21s and 3 minutes. On average I would say it's one minute. Sometimes you will never heal with boon. Boons are high risk high reward. I saw many games lost by boons instead of going for gens (I especially love people that boon against plague or legion).
But I get it. Killer does not directly sees it. That's why nemesis zombies are totally useless even when they hard-harass gens and slow down their progression by several minutes (if they don't get stuck). But killer will not see it so zombies are just as useless as boons are OP...
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@Ivalyth said:
In last night's livestream, I ended up playing in the Saloon as the Clown (I apologize for any swear words in the video beforehand). I have noticed that wiggle perks such as Boil Over have an enormously strong effect. Granted, there was a map offering and an oak offering in play too, but I strongly believe that there was little to no effort in making those two offerings really matter. I think sabotages only came in to play once or twice, where most of the time, retreating to that one room meant a safe zone for the survivors. I am in no way complaining about save builds, as they require a bit of setup and they can backfire majorly, I am simply puzzled at how to counter this kind of play on this particular map.
Is there a way to counter this sort of behavior? Not even my speed bottles helped me, so it must be even worse for other killers. Should a hook be added there in this specific map because of how perks have recently been reworked? I'd love to know what you think, as I may have just been playing poorly. It's happened before! I am posting this here instead of bug reports because I genuinely don't know if it's an oversight, but still I'd love to help improve future players' experience.
Below is my gameplay. Again, sorry if I'm not wholesome all the way through!
You got outplayed my friend. Why did you hit people behind you when going for hook if you had problems getting them there? All you had to do is pick up and carry them (ignoring everyone around). Also boon and flip-flop. You had to snuff it or not slug. Usually matches become quite easy after this, because most survivors can't let go of the idea to try to make that boil over play.
No I see no reason to add yet another hook on this map. It's always a miracle, mistake on killer's side and good guess (all 3) when I successfully sabo on this map.
Also boil over had just 1 instance so far that it prevented me hooking someone - and it only worked because someone sabotaged hook I was going for and I got stuck on the other hook I wanted to use (but yes, I play on PC).
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@Monlyth said:
There should never be a perk that punishes the Killer for hitting a Survivor in a normal chase. Endurance should only be granted under very specific conditions where the Killer can ignore it by switching targets, like Soul Guard, Borrowed Time, and Off the Record.
By same reasoning we should delete spirit fury, enduring, hubris, crowd control, dissonance, claustrophobia, deadlock, .... Because survivors should not get punished by doing there objective/prolonging chases with killers. The idea is just wrong. Both sides have things that make their life easier. DH is survivor's version of strong prolong game. All the regression perks (especially CoB, OC and eruption) are the strong things that prolong killer's game. If DH should go, so should regression perks to balance it out.
Anyway if you can't play around 0.5s hit protection in this laggy environment, that is your skill issue. Also it's not that rare that I can hit survivor that DH's into pallet before he can drop it - by just slightly postponing my hit and not respecting pallet (sure the timing is not very forgiving - same as DH).
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Starstruck is fine. The perk rarely provides any value. Not counting nurse (and maaaaaybe spirit or wesker). On most killers it does nothing, but prevent body blocking.
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@DBDVulture said:
Somewhere around 4 would be enough. Giving him all 8 is problematic (see otz and basement nonsense).
Ages ago someone suggested he could search a locker to teleport the most distant non armed trap to him - that's a great idea.
Those two changes would make him fine. Change the purple bag back to +2 traps or maybe even +3 traps.
A rare occasion where we agree
@Dream_Whisper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300221#Comment_3300221
Interesting, but too strong.
Trapper is F Tier when it comes to the many counterplay with him; especially with SWF. Here's what I will do:
*Trapper should have access to all of his traps, by either one of these three basekit options.
Option A: Basekit Purple Sack Addon, without the penalty of leaving traps stuck where you place them.
Option B: Make Bear Traps spawn more often in the center of the map, and no traps should spawn in the corner of the map.
Option C: Traps only spawn in lockers, Trapper can reload just like Huntress/Trickster; yet the catch is there is maximum bear trap limit to how many traps you can have in the map 6-8, I think. Any disarmed traps will respawn in the locker, everytime you reload.
*Injured Survivors Falling for traps need to be severely punished, as there is no risk for Falling for it, besides notifying the killer.
Option A: Injured Survivors get either the Deep wound, Broken, or exhausted status effect upon falling for it. These afflictions can be ignored, if the other Survivors are nearby and come assist their Trapped Injured teammate.
Option B: Injured Survivors can still rescue themselves, but now be at risk of being put into the dying state. Unless a teammate is nearby to assist them escape. Basically make the honing stone purple addon basekit, but only to injured Survivors getting trapped and escaping on their own.
*Traps are way too easy to spot, as the new graphical updates in maps which kill grass and more bright maps. Not to mention, survivors items like keys and Maps can be used to located all of Trapper's traps.
Here's what we should do:
Option A: Bring back tall grass, especially near windows, loops, etc. Anything in the environment to help cleverly camouflage the traps placements.
Option B: Make Bear Traps disappear on sight, until a Survivor goes with a small range within a trap location and it will be revealed from invisibility. A Survivor outside of chase can easily spot the traps in advance and disarmed; while survivors in chase will need to be more mindful of where Trapper set his traps or go to loops outside his "territory" to maximize survival chances.
Option C: Remove Survivors's abilities to detect traps with items like Key/ maps. Another nerf, but it makes Trapper strong and not exploitable by SWF with items.
Other quality of life improvement/significant buffs to make Trapper much more better and efficiency, I would love to see.
*Trapper's successful traps would give the Killer a Temporarily Haste speed duration; which gives the killer bit of reward in catching up to survivors, everytime they screw up and fall for a trap. You can used the limited speed duration, to get to the trap Survivor location if they are across the map; or used the speed to finished up a chase you are trying to finished or get a free hit. The effects can last for 3-5 seconds; and give him a minor 5% increases movement speed.
*If Trapper gets a pick up Bear Traps from lockers added to the game, I would love to see new mechanic in which you can set a active trap inside a locker, for malicious plays agaisnt locker survivors whom don't suspect the locker to be dangerous. Imagine, how Victor from Twins can shut a Survivor inside a locker; but in this case; a Survivor gets injured or even down if they jumped inside a rigged locker or even trap for limited time.
*This is a bug problem, but I don't think Survivor should abuse the whole "I am disarming the trap but not really disarming it" so created a opening for a 2nd Survivor to walk right through the trap, as their teammates "disarmed" it. If thay gets patched, and make survivors walking through armed traps with teammate help impossible. That would be fantastic.
*Okay, now that I listed all the buffs, I will add one major nerf, to help combat Basement Trapper, as it not easy for saving survivors. That one nerf is Bear Traps can no longer be place inside door opening. Pallets outside the killer shack, and even window should be fine. Or at least, make the basements range in which you cannot place a trap in a certain range. And if it detect pre set up traps, the traps will be disarmed automatically.
This is borderline too much, but it might be still OK. Considering also proposed nerf, this could actually work (the nerf is especially important, because "bugfix" part was one of a few things how to get out of basement if trapper camps and closes basement in shack)
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"I never said i want NOED for basekit,killers should have NOED for basekit" This does not make sense. You say you are killer main and you want killers to have noed basekit but not you? Like give everyone NOED but not me if I am in game? Seriously?
If enemy side brings best thing in the game (coordinated SWF players with best meta perks and best items/addons) - you want to be able to win regardless? Even when you don't have enough skill for that? And you dare say survivors are entitled? OMG. If you really want to compare strongest stuff, then compare it to nurse with double range addons and starstruck. Or take spirit with MDR and amulet and 4 slowdowns. You can't cherry pick. Makes you entitled killer main.
How does your game's go against coordinated teams? Depends on their skill. I especially love to play against so called "bully squads". I know what they want to do and how to do it. So I know how to counter it. Usually that's a 4K at 3-4 gens left. However sure there are more skilled coordinated SWF players that actually try to win instead of mess around. Most of my looses come from them. And yet I don't ever feel like - I played it perfectly and there was nothing for me to do to win. It usually comes to game screwing me over (like with wesker hitting someone and that someone is released free instead of getting hit), or they being actually better and me doing bad plays. And that's fair. There are still many things that I have yet to learn. It does not mean I will call for immediate buffs for me, because there are people with better precision or better reflexes or better game sense then me. Again. If I did that, I would be entitled player.
Killer has never been the strong side, there's only good killer mains who utilize their perks and slow the survivors down enough to do this. Well again you are wrong. For survivor soloQ, the record in escape streak is somewhere around 34 games in a row. For duo AFAIK it's just 10. For 4man SWF it's 200+. For killer it's 555 and counting. Both of these full tryhard max effort matchup. And this is not just about nurse. There are winsteaks for basically all killers. Sure some killers have it much harder (say trapper). But even weaker killers (like Onryo) have 100 winstreak. Again. Compare it to 34 for solo escapes (and hatch counts as escape). Now knowing this. Are you still calling killer the weaker role? And again - official stats stating 61% kill rate for top 5% players for given killer? Do you even understand numbers? Why are you calling killer weaker role then?
I want you to go 555 wins with your main I could if I was one of the best. And yet I am not. So I can't go on extended win streaks no matter which side. I don't have experience nor skill for that. But I am not stating which side is stronger based on my own experience only. I base it on performance of best players in this game and on official stats. This makes it objective.
BTW one of the strongest nurse players that I played with (comp player that won a few tournaments) is console player. So don't even try to say console stands no chance. Again. Skill issue.
Also I would argue 4-man SWF is indeed powerful and so wins at about 50% of their games - making them actually the only fair survivor role. I have good reasons why I think it's 50%, but I don't have official stats. You don't either so your own personal experience means exactly nothing (same as mine btw). Even more so that you have no idea if you were actually defeated by 4 solos with good game sense or SWF (because some solos are that much better, that they have more game sense then actual SWF on comms. But even this will not help them play around certain perks like eruption). Anyway even this is besides the point, because we got official numbers stating that 4-man SWF is actually very rare and there's just no way you will get those more then every 10th game. If you feel otherwise, then that just means you blame your inability to win on everything but you.
And about why NOED? Hello? Did you check the title of the topic that YOU created? Anyway you wanting to have unrelenting basekit also speaks volumes about your skill. Please leave game balancing for actual people that know how to play the game at least a little.
You want Michael buffed but you hate instadowns such as NOED, Rancor. What? I never said anything about hating instadown and stuff. I actually think rancor is fair perk (as a perk. Not a basekit stuff). NOED as a perk right now is also fair. But the reason the perk is strong is not instadown. The reason why it's so strong is that 5% speed buff. Again you would know this if you were not a brand new player (I presume 100hrs or less). Also I do want Michael buffed. Right after they do something with both of his tombstones (or at very minimum tombstone piece) - then after this happen (or at the same time), I do think Meyers will benefit from some reasonable buff. On the other hand. Oni is very fine. I actually used to main him. Solid A tier killer. Sure he is not the strongest (he is by no means S-tier killer) one in game, but he sure belongs between strongest killers.
What I'm saying just doesn't register and I'm fine with that Well it does register. It just makes no sense. And it's fully understandable. You lack experience in this game to actually provide reasonable stuff. There always comes somebody new to this forum that just does not have a clue. Last time there was a thread that basically wanted to 100% protect last hooked person making killer physically unable to hook him again. That sure is also as unreasonable as your proposition. But it's understandable. People that lack experience just don't understand how much game breaking things they actually suggest. And that's OK. But they should listen to other people that explain to them WHY that thing would be game breaking. Also people that play just 1 side tend to be blind to balance and just want buffs to their side. The game devs should think about this one and instead apply some objective metrics (escape rate being 39% for skilled survivors right now).
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@MrKrabsArgArgArg said:
I would say the trapper should get the following
- Carry all of his traps at the start
- Two traps on the trapper's person can be pre-armed for quick deployment
- Reload speed of the two traps on your person the same as those on the ground
- Survivors releasing themselves from a trap without help inflicts mangled, hemorrhage, and deep wound, this only impacts survivors who escape on their own, and not all survivors, so the add-ons currently in place are still able to be used
- Traps have a minimum 2-3 required escape attempts
- May be a bit controversial with this, but I think Bloody Coil should just be base kit, and instead injured survivors attempting to disarm traps with bloody coil are put into the dying state
100% NOT all of these. Sure trapper needs help right now. But your suggestion would make him very oppresive very quickly.
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@DashMonsta008XV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299168#Comment_3299168
I literally played this probably longer than you, I'm not speaking numbers and i guess that's a problem for you.I wasted that time on purpose,but I had no idea that the killer was running Eruption and CoB.You say survivors is in the minority but that isn't correct because with the time wasted we were still able to get our gens done.
I didn't run any perks that help with that so imagine if I actually ran a gen build ? I could have done 3 gens alone.No I'm not a skilled survivor.I mainly play killer and play survivor when I want to see the killers are I'm frustrated with killer because survivor is the least stressful role that's why Tru Talent and Otz jumps in sometimes. As killer mains the survivor side feels less stressful.At less from my experience.It Is why most killer mains feel survivors have a sense of entitlement because they want guaranteed escapes.
Every killer gets gutted because the ability of the killer actually does it's job so put a longer cool down here ( Death slinger) I never even see him these days because his zoning was cooled down mine you he's a 112 killer and relies on precise shots are it's a big punishment.But because when playing against deathslinger every swf decides to run in the open instead of loops like the do every other killer with no range.They want even do that against Huntress because her power leads to downs but since DS cannot down you with his ability they took away what made him viable which was his ability to zone.now it goes like if you miss a shot, reload,point spear cool down if your not ready survivor gets to make distance
Even if you hit them in healthy state the have DH and the initial speed bust to waste time and the cool downs from quick scoop makes no sense because you can lower a rifle IRL with ease and that was the part of his power made him viable to keep survivors guessing.Anytime somebody puts anytime in a killer and becomes effective,the killer is somehow modified
Did you not read my post , this isn't about making a stronger side stronger,I stated killes "should"have built-in NOED.Its ok to have a bunch of buffs survivors side,for the side already strong but killers aren't allowed to have slow downs or a basekit buff.And that shows how one-sided most people who play survivor is.
There's nothing you can do to really stop coordinated teams, who's good at looping and gen objectives,they have maps that show killer and totems ,hooks etc.any totem that spawns hexed usually is destroyed 1 min into game.Survivors heal 3 x faster than gens regress survivors move 125 Ms as killer moves 115 ms player's who run the tiles creates distance effectively that's a reset in it self.They can reset a chase tap gen,heal,stay on gen, get chased, heal,stay on gen rinse and repeat and there's nothing you can do but get a 1 or 2k
I literally said 2018 DBD ,but the Mori and hatch changes are fine
It's not ok to add buffs to a stronger side,only if it calls for it.
If another killer main comes in on this thread and say what,I just said in this post,and tell me I'm wrong then? I'll admit I'm wrong and don't understand DBD.You have to be a legit killer main, who's been on this forum for a year or two.Not a troll but someone who has experience with the killer role and survivor?
My point is there should be a basekit buff for killers like Sloppy Butcher, Unrelenting, Something tamed and not drastic for how fast survivors heal up
PTSL
15% repair
Leader
20% speed increase for healing etc
Reactive Healing
50 % Healing To self
Better Than New
16 % Healing
Circle of Healing
50% Healing self
40 % Healing Speed increase 40 percent for others
Desperate Measures For each Injured,hooked, dying state
14% percent healing
You can do the match at the rate of how fast survivors heal
Not mention For athe people, Adrenaline
For the people just wastes killer time if the survivor is good enough at hiding usually ran with lucky break but usually the best looper gets the pay off as they have reset the chase don't tell me to go kick the gen because about time you go to gen survivor has some how vanished and soon as you leave they're back on gen
This isn't even the rates of the gen rush builds ,but this quit ridiculous to play against and CoH doesn't even have a cool down but eruption shouldn't have a incapacitated status?
I have seen part of your video and let me tell you, you have 0 idea about the game. Take it as an insult if you want to, but I am only frank. Your killer and you are so bad, that it does not represent anything in this game. Literrally anything.
If even very new killer can easily play 1000x better and solo survivors too, then how do you want to take anything useful balance-wise out of it? When both sides do continual huge mistake within mistake on mistake, then how do you want to take anything reasonable out of that gameplay?
I will tell you how - you just don't. You are not going to change the game to "adjust balance" for people with 0 clue. When I troll whole game (I would not play different from what you or your killer did on video), then I will not ask to rebalance whole game accordingly. I would at minimum take into account people that at least try to win. So again. Not your case.
Also about Otz you are mistaken. He plays soloQ during the beginning of his stream. Almost never more then 4 games out of which 3-4 end up in death (after which he conveniently swapps to killer). Also Otz agrees soloQ is the weakest role in whole game. Speak about supaAlf, SpookyLoopz or any other more relevant killer main. Or even better, pick people that play both sides - like Scott Jund. People that play both sides tend to give balanced responsed, because they do understand frustration from both sides.
Also about guaranteed escapes. Current escape rate is 39% in high mmr and 41% on average. That is guaranteed? I would say "flip a coin" percentage is 50%. And guaranteed goes towards 100%. I don't know about you, but 39% and even 50% looks to me like a very different numbers. But maybe they are the same thing for some hard entitled killer mains that want the game handed to them, because they are that bad in it (as provided by your video).
About DS - you should see Hens (another person that plays both sides even if he plays killers more) play him. DS is still very strong killer. He is just not free as he used to be. But if you master him, he is within top 10 strongest killers in game. I saw that it's hard to believe to you given your gameplay skill, but given better player, DS has no problem destroying survivors.
And again. You don't want to buff stronger side, but give NOED to 61% kill rate side. Well hard NO.
For your nothing to do against coordinated teams - maybe you should actually watch that Otz (he is not even best because he does not specialize + he handicaps himself on purpose) and look how he so often (sure not always) destroys coordinated teams. Now imagine what would happen if he did not handicap himself and played mostly one single strongest killer. Oh wait. You don't need to imagine. There's a streamer named supaAlf, that currently has 555 wins in a row on his main - nurse. In 555 matches, there wasn't single tryhard coordinated team that could get at least 2 people out. There's no survivor streak that long (even if hens's group came close with 200+ wins). And yet you claim it's not possible. Well guess what? All Alf's game are recorded and directly streamed on twitch. Go watch them for yourself.
Also most of people that you spoke to here are killer mains. For some reason killers are more willing to sign here (maybe it's for historic reasons, because killers used to really be weaker role. This is now reverted from patch 6.1). The people that disagreed with you play mostly killer. Hack even I who calls myself survivor main play nowadays killer much more then survivor, because soloQ feels just that bad.
And let me tell you - even I survivor main consistently and long-term win in about 70-80% of all my games (meaning 3+ kills). So again. Killer is very easy right now. Especially during day outside evening hours. This is true even though I don't camp or tunnel people. Any more buffs to killer side and I would need to go afk at the start of the game or take just 3 perks to have any challenge. And I don't even use eruption or call of brine. So to reiterate - you having problems playing killer is pure skill issue. I don't question it in your case even tiny bit considering the video you posted here.
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At very minimum trap placement could be better by default (more towards center). I don't know if removing whole set-up time would not make him too much actually. But it's possible it would still be ok.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299994#Comment_3299994
Just because they both serve the same root function doesn't mean they are the same. Nor should they be balanced the same.
Well I disagree
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299346#Comment_3299346
What false equivalency?
For starters, add ons are optional for Survivors as you don't even have an item unless you bring one. All killers have powers.
It's also a false equivalency because you literally cannot call two things equivalent in a 4v1 game. It is BY DESIGN not equal.
Sure they are not the same thing. But they have same function in game - enhance what the person can do with it in game. There's just 1 killer that breaks this rule and fully relies on it, but that one breaks the game in many different regards anyway (I am talking about nurse of course)
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@Predated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299650#Comment_3299650
It will increase it only very slightly. Toolboxes have been nerfed, genspeeds have decreased, gen regression has been made a lot more accessible(and some basekit). And giving absolute info on survivors is a SLIGHT buff(at most instinct on the killer, thats far from absolute info.). Looking at the killer and pressing a button with a cooldown to give killer instinct to teammates, is an extremely minor buff to the point of basically not buffing SWF.
As for the atmosphere of the game, well, it wouldnt really do too much tbh. In fact, in a lot of cases, it would allow players to be a lot more casual on the survivor side. And the biggest bonus, killers can recieve buffs that are a lot more significant because soloq no longer suffers from the lack of information. That would easily compensate the lack of information that has to be shared between players.(let alone that people still have to call out WHERE they are going, how they plan on running, and people screaming at their teammates to not be ridiculous as they can see pretty much exactly what they are doing).
Its the change that DBD shouldnt need, but with killers being balanced with SWF in mind, soloq needs a buff. You cannot nerf SWF without nerfing Soloq even worse. But you can buff soloq a lot while barely buffing SWF(if they benefit from it at all).
This. 100% agree. If it's negligible buff on swf and substantial buff on solo, it's good thing for the game. If it ends up buffing all survivors too much, then it can be compensated.
Right now soloQ is beyond terrible. Changes like this would make it bareable.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299606#Comment_3299606
It's impossible to buff solo without buff swf.
How would swf benefit from icon indicating that survivor is being camped? Or how will ping system buff swf when they can speak those pings directly? Same info can and will be provided via comms even if there are other means available.
It's these buffs that I am talking about. Add info to soloQ that swf has and provides to each other for free, but do not give more information then what they can relay verbally.
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Haddonfield and saloon are correct, but there are many more maps like this. Rpd, azarov's resting and suffocation pit are almost guaranteed. Midwitch and the game have very high chance of spawning one, but are not stable or guaranteed. Eyrie of crows (main, main's side and corner behind main) and ormond (main with 2 best connected gens) have a little bit looser versions, but still a strong 3gen.
That's quite a number of maps and I am pretty sure I still forgot some.
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@Predated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299544#Comment_3299544
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299550#Comment_3299550
I personally would love a Survivor Instinct thing too, to reveal where your teammates are. Something that works exactly like Killer Instinct. Its not as exact as aura's, but its really good to know where your teammates are too. And in the case of a killer chasing, you could use that exact same method through a teammate giving his location when they see it.
Both would make a lot of perks a lot weaker, and you might as well give survivors full on aura reads of each other(personally, I dont see too much of a benefit for SWF, but a huge benefit for solo if they would, but that would make those same perks worthless the way they are now). For me, it just points out that there are a lot of survivor perks that should be basekit(buckle up is the most obvious one) because SWF has that info for free, but that is a whole different discussion.
The problem is the precision. There's a huge difference between "i am being proxy camped" and seeing pinpoint exact location that allows you to sneak by and use reassurence/unhook. Same with buckle up or any other aura basekit.
Any information beyond what regular swf can tell (e.g. I am close to shack but can't specify more) is free survivor buff for everyone. It takes things away from game. All we really need is getting solo and swf to same-ish level. Meaning make as many buffs to all survivors, as possible so long as it does not buff swf in any (noticable) way.
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@MrFirbyll said:
This could prevent 3-generator situations. 3-gens spawns at 5 gens and not given to the killers by Survivors. If killers have the right perks, they can keep the game hostage as well. And this change could be hot-fix into the game too. My suggestion is a possible 8th generator for completion.
I don't think this would really solve things (maybe offload it a little). Problem is 3gen camping from beginning to the end (something that kicking meta allowed), that still allows you to win games with 4 regression perks.
I think the direction should be more into buffing kicking base regression (perkless), but nerfing all regression perks - so that people that bring 2 slowdowns don't see a change, people with 4 info perks get buff and people with 4 regressions would no longer be able to hold the game until server shuts down.
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@Dream_Whisper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299141#Comment_3299141
Exactly, the Survivors absolutely has a much bigger advantage when it comes to Map Offerings. Even though certain killers can play their own map offerings, I don't want to as I need challenges/BP to complete (unless their is a specific map I need to maximize my chances of adept Achievement as killer)
Here's the reason why Map Offerings favors Survivors more.
Scenario 1:
*Survivor A used a Map Offering for Coldwin farm
*My Killer, Doctor, used Lerys offering; because we have a terror Radius build.
*Survivors B also used Same map offering; now the game is a 50/50% chances that you either go to Lerys or Coldwin, but my I am pretty sure the chances leans towards Survivors getting Coldwin because two Survivors just threw in same map offerings, so it must stack 100% to 200% chance; or about 2/3 chance to go to Coldwin vs. 1/3 of The Lerys.
Scenario 2 (Most common): Killer like me goes for BP offerings all the time 90%; The rest of the survivor are also BP, but their is always the one Survivor whom will throw in map offerings for worse maps. (Coldwin, Bedham, Dead Dog Saloon, etc.) But of course, this doesn't help with that fact I can suspect the one that brings this map, are usually the ones I can ignore; as I have difficulty trying to catch them off guard. Again, they will have the perfect build for this map, which is why rng needs to exist in the game so that the perks you bring doesn't always benefit you greatly.
Scenario 3 (Rare, yet impossible to deal with): You have a true SWF team, whom swapped their Survivors at last seconds; they brought multiple petrified offerings (make hook spawns far), one map offerings with the worse hooks spawns like midwhich and bedham; and will be a sabotage squad, with soul guard, Boon CoH, etc. Pretty much builds that scream "impossible to hook me" and "slug me and I will keep coming back to haunt you"
These builds wouldn't be so oppressive strong when the maps are not designed perfectly in killer favor at times. I am not screaming buff killer, but the map rng is so messed up that it wouldn't be so fair if cannot ever hook anybody or find any Survivors or even succeed in mind game in chase when Survivors exploit the maps' imbalances and give their builds a advantage.
Sure. Map offerings do favor survivor. No argument there. But as I stated - there are other things that favor killer. Should I scream slow down killer because he is faster? Should killer scream remove 3 players, because 4v1 is not 1v1? For every benefit survivor has, there is something to offload it. Overall killrates are 60%, so....
Anyway I don't have problems going to goj when playing killer even if I am at disadvantage map-wise. It's very possible I will make up for it somewhere else (or in next game at worst). So long as maps are not repeated too often (and it feels like random rotation somehow loves to repeat maps more then offerings ever could), it does not bother me
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@Seraphor said:
Yes please.
This would complete 2 of the 3 much needed solo survivor buffs, that would bring them up to SWF level without inadvertently buffing SWF as well.
The last would be some form of quick chat function for alerting survivors to where you / the killer are in a very vague way like 'near' and 'far'. E.g. "The killer is here!" and "Coast is clear."
This! Much better then kindred basekit or any other overboard suggestions 🙂
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@InvadeGames said:
deadlock is a perfectly fine perk. The amount of whining that goes on in regards to every perk is ridiculous.
you arent punished for playing the game. there are potential consequences for EVERY action you take on both sides in this game. that is a fundamental aspect of the game. If you cant handle a 30 second block on ONE gen a couple times a match then you may be too sensitive to play a game like dead by daylight.
DH is now about skill (and lags). There is no reason to do anything now about it. Yes it's strong. But it denies other strong perks.
As for deadlock - it's also perfectly fine. The only possible problem with the perk is, that hard facecampers can use it for extra camp time. This can be fixed by reassurence (or buffing it slightly). Again. I see 0 problems with prolonging the game with a perk a little
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@Eelanos said:
I know many people agree maps need to be smaller, but I feel maps being bigger would actually solve a lot of pain points about the game.
Before you disagree with me, let me run you through my thought process, as this change wouldn't come by iself:
- The further away gates and gens are from each other, the harder they are to camp. The less camping, the fewer stalemates to face. Movement and constantly doing something is promoted over standing still for several seconds.
- The bigger the maps, the more hooks on them. The more hooks, the more difficult sabotage builds are to pull off.
- With bigger maps, there's more space for more gens. Increase total gen number to power the gates, decrease individual gen time. Say, instead of having 5 90-second gens, we have 8 or 9 60-second ones. On one side, survivors will feel better because they don't have to sit on the same spot for as long and they'll spend more time moving and potentially interacting with the killer. On the other side, survivors can't pop all 5 gens in two waves of 90 seconds or less, making matches where killers get stomped by survivors less likely (or at least longer and with more potential for interactivity).
- Wall-to-wall travel time ratio would remain largely the same with increased movement speed. Say the maps currently are 10 units and you travel 1 unit per second, the change would make them 20 units and make characters move 2 units per second. Am I making sense?
With this I think a bunch of problems the game has would get fixed, particularly those moments where people feel stuck in a lose-lose situation, which are the least fun moments in this game, I think.
The only problem with this that I can think of is probably the increased amount of loops that would inevitably come with a bigger map. Pallets and windows will probably be fairly abundant, potentially making catching a single good survivor a nightmare.
This shifts the game in so many ways...
1, more gens with less time for each buffs survivors even if the overall time is slightly larger, because there would be no time to regress (prigressed) gens. There would need to be a lot of work to balance this
2, sabotages are already very hard, because killer can pick any of those 5-7 hooks available (provided he is not in corner) and hook on it when surv can't really outrun him + even after successful sabo killer usually have enough time to just go to next hooks. Even if you make perfect sabo play and took 1 hit, it's very possible killer will be able to go to next hook (ofc this is average case. Midwitch and saloon change this dramatically - both in oposing way. Breakout, flip-flop+ub and iron grasp, agitation change it dramatically. The list of modifiers is much longer, but you get the idea).
3, making the game faster is huge killer buff. It buffs all looping as reaction time is constant (so fair LT's are now killer sided) + lag hits would become even more of a problem. All loops, or filler pallets, all zones would need to be adjusted or looping outside the safest, largest and rarest structures would stop to make any sense.
Overall I think this creates more problems than it solves (even if I do agree that it solves something)
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@DashMonsta008XV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299009#Comment_3299009
Basekit NOED would only trigger,last gen and if killer decides to camp the buff is removed all together and is deactivated with 7 meters of the hook. Also NOED no longer should work by totem, that's the point of it being basekit.
The isn't really about NOED but about the give and take of ,what survivors are willing to give and what they take.They can have Basekit unbreakable, Barrowed Time Kindred,and even more info on the screen but the sheer mention of NOED being basekit,has flipped the politeness into malice.But on top of how fast gens can be done and how fast survivors can heal,wouldn't the killer need NOED basekit? Like the wraith in that video should he be rewarded a sacrifice for playing hard all game, shouldn't he have a chance or is his reward nasty comments after t bagged at the gate ? I'm supposed to have a stressful match almost every game and then watch swf bm me until endgame runs out with hand holding basekit ? That's what I'm supposed to accept? I say No, I will not.
I legit go play killer if I want to have chill matches. Survivor is super frustrating and not fun.
You wanting to buff stronger side (hello check official stats) speaks volumes about you.
You wanting to go back to old "fair" DBD just shows your ignorance (2 windows at shack? Only fast vaults? Permanent hook sabotages? Maaany more pallets on the map? Hatch allowing whole team to escape with single key and many more things). As it stands the game is slowly buffing killers for at least past 2 years (sure there are some exceptions like boil over fiasco or introduction of boons, but the nerfs are constant).
Also you clearly don't have experience in game showing from your video. If you played the game more for both sides, you would know that very strong 4 man SWF is balanced with stronger killers. Solo is bad even against weak killer (provided the player is good).
One more thing - if you think it's killers that are leaving the game right now, then think again. The game incentives show which side needs more players and it gives BP bonus to that side. In my region I could call those incentives as "survivor incentives". During week it's 23hrs a day on survivor and on weekends it's still about 20hrs. People just don't want to play this gutted weak role that has basically nothing going for them (when in soloQ) and getting camped and tunneled almost every game. It even shows on stats as people are leaving this game. Right now it's very clear survivors need help (specifically largest group of them - soloQ)
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@TrueGuardian32 said:
Honestly, the best way to help prevent tunneling is to reduce the amount of information.
For example, the Killer shouldn't know when someone gets unhooked, nor should they know where the hook is when they leave it. I think that the loud notif when a Killer unhooks should be removed and the Aura of the hook should be hidden when a survivor is on it and last for 5 more seconds after the unhook action is complete. A hooked status icon shouldn't be visible as well. It should only show them as injured or in the dying state, injure when on hook, dying state on the ground. This will promote face camping though. Cause hardcore tunnelers will just change the strategy.
And that one can be bandaid fixed by making reassurence 12m distance and 45s. Now the biggest problems in game are fixed to at least satisfactory degree.
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@Dream_Whisper said:
I would have preferred if rng is core aspect of Asymmetrical horror game that is DBD, and map offerings kill that vibe as it gives one side a significant advantage. If only the devs bother to Rebalancing maps, especially the Survivors sided ones; then I would absolutely fine with maps existing in the game.
If map offerings have to be reworked instead of removed, I would lean towards making map offerings go 100% remove the chances of going to that realm of maps. (A player burns a map offering RPD badge, will now make the map of Raccoon City Police Department maps impossible to go).
Same can be apply fo the sacrifice ward, make the spawn rate just as relevant as regular map offerings in the Blood web; and give the other side the option to reject map offering and that you can go to that map regardless.
My problem with Sacrifical Ward offerings besides the rarities of gathering them; is the fact that they do not even work all the time. There was one game or two, I encounter a SWF team whom used a map offering Coldwin farm. I planned ahead and suspected they were going to used it, as I saw their TTV name and saw their clone Dwilight team. I used a sacrifice ward at the last second, they only burn two offerings. I pretty sure the description specifically that map offerings will not work, if the offering is used; and I was confident they didn't all 4 burn coldwin map offerings.... Load into the game, and well... I am in Coldwin farm now -_-
(Not sure if this is a bug or this is asymmetrical game being so much in favor of that swf at the time; but it annoying that map offerings are quite overpowering as one Survivor can literally give their hold team a advantage; while most of used are using BP offerings)
Again. Map offerings bad, because I play killer. Seeing survivors in lobby and their items is good and no more RNG is desired, because I play killer.
So again. You can't have cake and eat it too
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@Seraphor said:
I just went through 43 bloodweb levels to get 2 scratched mirrors and ONE indoor map offering.
Killers needs 100% map offerings. Period.
I would not be against making sacrificial ward yellow offering and make it come to bloodwebs more often. That's about it.
The fact that you just got unlucky in bloodweb does not change anything.
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Map offerings are fair. Same as lobby shopping between killer and survivor. The fact that it favors one side more then the other is nature of the game. It's still fine as it is. You can't make the game "fair" when it suits you and ignore it and say the game is asymmetrical when it does not.
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@ByeByeQ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298701#Comment_3298701
I am still not buying this pile of horse manure. But I'll entertain it. Why not?
If you've wiggled free you still have the stun duration to run away. You can definitely be way more annoying to the killer and force them to kill you rather than giving them what they want.
Also, if you run Dead Hard you can be extremely annoying. You can also put a kink in the strategy by getting away and then letting the mend timer put you on the floor so you can finish bleeding out.
Ratting out your teammate is a dbag move and you are giving a dbag killer exactly what they want. Rewarding that crap just encourages them to keep using that strategy. The killer has made you sink to their level.
It happened on saloon. I tried to bleed out. Point at hook and stay under it. Not wiggle. Wiggle free and do gen (that he can kick right after negating ANY progress I do). Try to have chases (yes I cleared all pallets in the map, but the game is designed so, that you will never fully shake off killer if the killer is not literal beginner or you don't have perks for it + huge luck). The other survivor was just hiding the whole time. All I wanted was to get out of the game at that point. I didn't care if I get spared or not. That was already way besides the point. In the time it took to play out that game, 3 quick games could be finished.
But what does it matter if killer only focuses you and the other survivor only focuses hiding? You can do 10 minutes chase and it will still not matter. Is there anything that I could do but forgot about it? Because I don't think so.
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@Anomalist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298715#Comment_3298715
DBD is a 6, going on 7, year old game that has kept a majority of it's mechanics the same. Just because the Devs aren't catering to the Survivors anymore, you think the game is dying; big surprise, Survivor main. Learn to play and you'll lose less Survivor games <3
I am winning plenty. It's just that I had to swap to killer. As a surv main with 9:1 experience on survivor and getting taught by someone with 9K hours. Sustained killer plays (so no, max MMR already) are way easier. Even without camping. That's just the state the game is in.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298156#Comment_3298156
Inner Healing takes 14s to cleanse a totem.
So why should CoH, which provides multiple heals, take 1s to bless?
The rest of the boons certainly need buffs to compensaten but that's always been the case that CoH is far better than the others. CoH can be placed somewhere safe, while the others work while the killer is nearby.
The best buff to make first would be to remove the killers noise notification when a totem is blessed. The killer won't know a boon is active until survivors have had a chance to use it.
The game was balanced around limited FoV for killer, but the game isn't all about stealth now. Survivors spend 90% of their tine dancing around the killer now and its obnoxious when you can't see a survivor you know is literally standing on your toes.
A wider FoV also comes with a wider angle to be blinded by flashlight, plus it reduces visibility at a distance. So it already has pros and cons that balance it.
FOV is also very important in chases. You saying it's obnoxious when you can't see a survivor is the same as if I said it's obnoxious killer can just hold W and get you should you find yourself in a deadzone. Sure it is. The game is designed around it. Dead zones (created or natural) are important part of the game. Same as limited FOV for killers. Removing any of these is a bad move.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298358#Comment_3298358
That last survivor that you think is taking the game hostage with the killer is actually waiting for you to bleed out so they can try to make the most out of a hopeless situation. In my situation, the killer actively looked for me after slugging the 3rd survivor. When their bleed timer got to about 10% the killer picked them up, let them wiggle off and then followed that survivor to my exact location and then gave THEM the hatch. I did not hold the game hostage and that probably is never the idea or intent behind any survivor who is simply using their last opportunity to escape when multiple gens need to be done. If the killer has even 1 gen perk that notifies them of locations with gen interaction then 1 survivor is never going to complete 5 gens in time to have the chance at opening the exit gates. Your whole "just let the killer win" attitude so you can spend a few less minutes in the match isn't the answer here. If anything the last 2 survivors should have give up options with the bleed out after they've been on the ground for maybe 25% of the bleed out time.
Then we had different situation. I started to snitch after 10 minutes of exactly no progress. It's true that I would not snitch if I was about to die and knew I could die within reasonable time. In my situation, server shut down would happen sooner then me bleeding out.
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@Anomalist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298420#Comment_3298420
For every Killer player there is always at least four Survivor players; the sheer numbers of complaining, inexperienced Survivors had lead to the nerfs of some Killers and kept others from getting buffed. Thankfully the Devs are trying to return DBD to the "horror" game is once was.
lol. Devs are trying to kill the game right now. See
An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.If they are going to buff killers even further (like they constantly are - see all the map nerfs, new tiles, eruption, CoB, overcharge, new maps and 3gens and many more things) it's no wonder people are slowly becoming fed up with the game.
I fully stopped playing solo, because the sheer frustration is unbearable. Now I enjoy killer games (even if killer is overall less fun then survivor). But the frustration factor difference is just too huge. The only way I am willing to play survivor now is at minimum 3-man squad. And that's only if I am in the mood when it's ok for me to loose way more then win.
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@ByeByeQ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298358#Comment_3298358
How in the name of the Entity are you being held on the ground for longer than the actual normal part of the game? It's a 4 minute bleed out timer. Unless the killer snowballed extremely early in the game you're not on the ground that long.
The only way that the game ends in a shutdown in this scenario is if the survivors hide forever refusing to do gens and try to outlast each other which holds the killer hostage. There is no possible way for the killer to hold the survivors hostage here because the survivor has all the choices in this scenario. They either end up bleeding out and if the killer puts them back on their feet the survivor is free to do whatever they wish. They are not held hostage in any way. If that survivor hops on a gen at that point it throws it back in the killer's face.
You are not being held hostage and the only person breaking any rules here is you. You can justify it however you like but it doesn't change that fact.
Again. Killer picks you up but does not carry you anywhere. He lets you wiggle free and downs you again upon which he instantly picks you up. He can hold you in the game long enough this way, that server will shut down before you bleed out. WAAAAAY longer then 4 minutes
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298208#Comment_3298208
No. You tried to make a bias argument that wasn't based on truth. You compared 2 things as if they were the same when they are not. Natural perk advantages are not the same as blatantly teaming up with the killer to produce an outcome that isn't based on normal game play. You can play whatever word games you want, but you're still wrong.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297905#Comment_3297905
It is not hostage taking. The last survivor has no power to take the game hostage. Eventually the 3rd survivor will die. If extending the game through picking up the survivor continuously is what you have problem with, then put the blame on the killer and not the last survivor. They have nothing to do with the killer doing that. You're not breaking hostage taking by showing the killer where the last survivor is. You're teaming up with the killer to cause an unnatural outcome that isn't the result of normal game play. You can try to define hostage taking how you want, but unless the 3rd survivor is being actively avoided by the killer or doing nothing but hiding while the last survivor also is doing nothing then there is no hostage taking happening. Your inconvenience of a match lasting longer than you like doesn't equal hostage taking of a match.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297930#Comment_3297930
Again, your personal definition of "game hostage" doesn't matter. A 5 gen 3rd survivor down situation is by no means taking the game hostage if the last survivor decides to wait out your bleed timer. You're basically saying the last survivor should throw themselves into an unwinnable situation. Waiting a few minutes for a bleed timer to expire doesn't equal taking a game hostage. Until you realize that you won't see this any other way.
Game concluding by shutdown is not natural end. Killer not allowing bleedout and other survivor not doing objectives is hostage taking - from both killer and survivor. There is 0 progress. Actually breaking this situation is progressing the game and having it come to natural end (everyone dying and killer winning the game) instead of waiting for server shutdown - which of course is NOT natural end of game.
If any of the other 2 players decided to actually do objective, the game would move on. As that's not the case, you and killer both are hostage taking the game. Also the game will not be just a bit longer. You as a survivor will still die after an hour as server shuts down and entity eats you. You are just trapping other player in game without him having any say in it. There's nothing more to discuss here.
Also as last survivor you can still do a gen after some time and hide right after you finish it. If game would progress, there would be 0 need/wanting to help break hostage taking. It might actually force killer to let me bleed out (to my full satisfaction). Just do not hold the game hostage for an hour.
@ByeByeQ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297905#Comment_3297905
Your teammate waiting for you to bleed out is not hostage taking. The killer slugging you and attempting to prevent you from bleeding out in this situation is not hostage taking either.
If the killer slugs you for the 4k and searches for the other survivor for 3.5 minutes and then picks you up and drops you repeatedly to put you back on your feet and prevent you from bleeding out then the correct play is to do gens and force the killer to choose between leaving you be or killing you. The incorrect play is to rat out your teammate.
Showing the killer where the other survivor is is not breaking a hostage situation.
Perhaps before the killer slugged for the 4k you learned through aura perks and your time hanging on hooks that the other survivor was a creeping Claudette who never touched a gen all game. Maybe then you could be justified to rat them out, because they didn't help the team at all the entire game and don't deserve to escape.
But if it was a helpful teammate who tried their hardest but it wasn't enough and in the end decided to hide and let you bleed out for a shot at hatch, then you should definitely give them the opportunity.
If you + killer hold me on the ground for longer then the actual normal part of game, then sorry. You are holding me hostage and I will try to untangle it any way possible. Should you do gen sneakily, there would be no need to rat you out. Do your part and force killer to leave me bleed out.
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@Anomalist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298203#Comment_3298203
Here's what you don't understand:
- I can continue to explain how to counter Slinger and have you argue that it isn't fun when fun is a subjective concept that won't always be given.
- In an earlier comment I didn't see, you actual showed that you went through and read up on Slinger; this means that you're breaking the habit of only taking things at face value. However, I said "Harvard graduate" only for flavor text but I proved that you can break the habit.
- But you're still stuck is said habit as, in that same comment, you acknowledged neither the fact that she was kidnapped "Her kidnappers kept her chained to the wall in a flooded cellar." -https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Lisa_Sherwood#Lore, nor the fact that the symbols she draws were from the elders and not the kidnappers.
- DBD is a glorified game of cat and mouse where the mice (Survivors) should run away and be scared of the cat (Killers). The only time when the game is given back it's horror element is when Killers have a "fast paced" power that suddenly catches you.
- The explanation I give is recieved with a "doesn't work like that" or an "I don't understand" followed by a "point" not made in the previous comment.
You take almost everything at face value as if it only means a singular thing. You aren't comprehending that other playstyles like stealth exists and you certainly aren't comprehending how strengths, weaknesses, buff, and nerfs should work. I may be giving you the Kindergartener treatment; but that's only because you refuse to understand or even take a second to think about it.
And your comparisons are bad; Nurse is better than Slinger and that's an obvious fact.
Go ask even more for point 4 and find out match making takes 30+ minutes. The game is already HORRIBLE for soloQ. SWF are no longer stronger then A-tier killers (not to mention S-tier). But sure - let's make another killer that is barely OK (strong B tier) broken again. So that survs indeed stop playing the game. Good job with your thinking.
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Broken means the same thing as last buffed boiled over - you just couldn't hook. Does that mean you lost every single game? No it doesn't. Bleedout still did work. However the game got broken and hooking got impossible. Instascope DS was the same thing.
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@Anomalist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298095#Comment_3298095
- I don't think you understood my point and I don't think you understand what an omen is.
- Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't immediately win the arguement; it only shows it's fragility if it all leads back to the same "problem" despite having simple and effective counterplay.
Let's go back for a second. Nomen est omen = Name is omen; an omen is "an event regarded as a portent of good or evil" or "prophetic significance". Every Killer has an omen, synonymous for sign, signal, hint, etc, that tells their power; however you're trying to redirect it only to the name of the Killer instead of including their lore as well.
If you took a read at the lore of the Survivor's and Killer's then you'd know that the Killer names are just nicknames. The Hag was a young lady and is only a Hag because she was kidnapped and starved by cultists. DeathSlinger is a Harvard graduate who became an engineer, got scammed by a corporate suit, jailed, became a bounty hunter for the Warden, and then killed them both for trying to betray him again. Hag knows how to do magic because she was with cultists for years and Slinger would know how to quick draw because he was forced to be a bounty hunter with a gang big enough to raid a jail.
When you are stuck to taking things at face value, you're overall hurting your own understanding as words can mean many other things than just what you think.
How do you go about dodging Huntress, Trickster, Nemesis, Plague? Survivors are in third person for a reason. Killers are locked to about 70 FOV while Survivors can view about 180 degrees out. If you're not willing to use your eyes to watch the Killer's movement, then you're obviously not using your brain to think of a plan to get away. You also forget the fact that when you're being aimed at by Slinger as a Survivor, you'll hear a whistle; another Omen that gives him away. Before you say "but that doesn't help if he's insta-shot"; he isn't anymore, is he?
Slinger's only buff was that he went from 75% to 85% MS when Aiming; almost certain that this means he was just as slow, if not slower than Survivors. Slinger didn't even work with his own perks and barely works with them post buff. The only thing Slinger had was Stealth from other perks and insta-scope. Either lower his TR, increase his speed to 115%, or bring back his insta-scope.
Insta scope was broken. Slinger is still good - it shows in stats. He just does not feel good so some small buff is acceptable. insta shots ARE NOT.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297910#Comment_3297910
How on earth would that destroy boons?
Before we had boons, we had Inner Strength (Inner Healing). You consume one totem, and you get one fast heal out of it. This was considered a strong healing perk.
Then we got CoH, which gives unlimited heals per totem, and the totems aren't even consumed.
Inner healing: 1 totem = 1 heal
CoH: unlimited totems = unlimited heals
Right from the start Boons should have been one and done, totem consuming perks, so that you get limited (but still multiple!!!!) heals per totem. This would still make CoH better than Inner Healing!
Shadowborn basekit breaks the game? Now I know you're joking. Shadowborn isn't even worth running as a perk. It's just a decent QoL upgrade for killer at this point.
Ok. But boons need to be blessed in 1s then. Otherwise it's so time inefficient. CoH needs to heal in 12s. Shadowstep needs to have 60s linger time, dark theory needs to give +10%move speed and 20% vault speed and exponential needs to be able to pick you up in 5s. Otherwise it's super high risk against mediocre reward.
Shadowstep is sometimes being used by people that don't have motion sickness problems. It's that important. If you played any dash killer or encountered survivors that can window tech you, FOV tech you or spin you or hide under some rock or something, you would understand. The game is balanced around lower visibility of killer. If you remove this, you are providing quite a substantial buff to all killers (but most to dash/blink killers like nurse, blight, spirit, wesker or oni)
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@Seraphor said:
Kindred (without killer aura) can be basekit when Shadowborn and Shattered Hope become basekit.
Deadly serious, I would be for any of those being basekit IF they all were.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297467#Comment_3297467
SWF can already share information, correct. They don't need it for free, correct. So they're not gaining anything from this.
All this does is elevate solo survivors a bit closer to SWF levels. What this does is level the playing field between solo and SWF, so that there isn't a huge skill gap. This means you have a much narrower range of skills to account for, which means survivor can be properly balanced against killer, and killer can receive more buffs, because it's not constantly catering to solo potato survivors anymore.
No to all 3.
SWF don't know exact locations. At best it's approximate location + killer's position is still a big part in it (because camping).
Shattered hope basekit means all boons (CoH included) are about as useful as flashlight while killer has lightborn. This change would 100% destroy all boons. It's like saying that eruption, OC and COB are fine so long as survivors get basekit blastmine that has 20s stun and needs just 10% gen progress to arm. Who would still play gen-kicking perks?
Shadowborn basekit just breaks game design. You take away survivor's things to be done (using FOV against killer) so survivors would need additional new weaponry - double the amount of pallets. The game will be much worser then it is, but it's you who wants to break base game design.
Seriously - this idea is about as wrong as it gets. I could counter it by saying basekit survivors need to be 110% speed to rival your idea.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297756#Comment_3297756
Teaming is cheating. A survivor showing the killer where another survivor is and the killer sparing the survivor that did that is, in fact, cheating. They teamed up to gain an advantage they would not normally have otherwise. The things you mentioned are called hacks. There is a difference and clearly you did not discern between the two in your reply. The fact you compared a survivor knowing exactly where the last survivor is by being downed and showing the killer where that survivor is to missing skill checks and natural perk advantages is very telling.
@Starrseed said:
Teaming is forbidden. That's it nothing more to discuss. Slugging for the 4k is allowed hiding on that situation is allowed there is absolutely nothing to discuss here. If the killer somehow has found a way to actually break the bleed out mechanic you should record and report that because that is an exploit.
On another note cause it fits in here. If a survivor is snitching on a other survivor because "they don't do enough" you the killer should always kill the snitch. If you let the other one go or not is not important but you should always kill the snitch so it can't be seen as you working with them
Survivor not doing any objective and waiting for the game to shut down is hostage taking. No discussion there. If I am being taken hostage, I will do everything in my power to break it. That's showing killer where the other survivor is (to break hostage taking) or to DC. No other options are there for me.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297517#Comment_3297517
Anti tunnel doesn't mean entirely stops it. It deters or mitigates it. Just like how anti loop doesn't mean loops don't matter. It means they're less effective.
Even OPs suggestion merely disincentivzes tunneling. Doesn't stop it entirely.
How does new DS deter ANY TUNNELING? I have yet to see 1 killer that even pauses for a second to eat new DS when it's obviously there (like going into locker and stuff).
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296229#Comment_3296229
You obviously split up when she's on Charlotte, then you duo when she's on Victor. I also play quite a bit of survivor, and COH is VERY, very strong. Twins is already very time inefficient in general, having to hunt down the COH and kick it is a huge timesink.
Agreed. But twins are overall so time efficient, that they are able to win regardless. Sure. It's tough when survivors know what they are doing. The difference between clueless and informed survivors are staggering. But even against CoH (agreed very strong against twins) and DH and paired survivors and knowing to go corner with healthy teammate taking hit... The game is still very much playable (but agreed - very very hard)
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296321#Comment_3296321
I don’t like quitter attitude either, and would support a “quitters queue” for players that tend to disconnect/die on Hook frequently that reduces over time as they play more matches without quitting.
A team based surrender for Killer doesn’t make sense since they are a team of one. (And why would Survivors pass up a relaxing match?)
For Survivor, okay, but you still have missing skillchecks on Hook and would need to change that.
The team of 1 changes nothing. It only means, that his vote will always be unanimous.
Of course it would not be super easy to do - you would need some kind of conditions (for both sides, but mostly on killer, because again he is team of 1), because otherwise both team could just surrender when anything goes a little bit wrong = "no game" will come to natural conclusion + lost opportunity for pips and BP's (both would need to be somewhat compensated).
So overall, it's not easy to do, there would need to be ironed out special cases and possible abuses, but it would help with boring matches where one side just stalls or is being deliberately toxic for the sake of being toxic or for the sake of keeping under players in game.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296398#Comment_3296398
The 20 times ads is the old deaths linger and the reason why his design was bad, I thought that was fairly obvious. Yes you can react to it at certain distance I never disagreed with it, but I said that at medium distance it cannot be reacted to and since most of the time he will shoot at medium distance his old version was problematic.
Conditioning needs a lot of repetitions and I don't think it works that well in Dbd, the times you can get downed and hooked per mact is limited and you are rather unlikely going to face the same player again.
I get the feeling you don't understand the words you are using... How is it more brain dead to go against/play a killer that can shoot you without any warning and without being able to react to it than getting somewhat of a hint? I simply don't understand that kind of reasoning, it makes no sense for me how you could get to this conclusion... And generalizing people into survivor or killer main despite having no information to back that claim is also a weird thing to do... Like wanting to have a somewhat fair and balanced gaming experience of eboth sides is a one-sided thing to want...
If you think old slinger was fine we can do the following: I ll play slinger you play survivor we go a certain amount of distance apart, we stand still, I aim at your chest height you crouch to reaction dodge the shot, I will keep ads the entire time, since old slinger didn't have any significant amount of warning either this should be somewhat fine. We will decrease the distance and see at which distance you can still reaction dodge it... And then we find out if you can something about it or if it is not possible to dodge.
Exactly. And I presume he would not be able to dodge even at 18m (I might be wrong, but I think that would be the case).
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296378#Comment_3296378
where exactly in that gameplay in hens gameplay do you see 20 times of raise+lower gun in the gameplay? This is such utter non-sense. There is this concept called conditioning in games. The more you do particular action, the less likely the opponent will fall for your bluff and vice versa. there is no need to respect every single ADS that the deathslinger player does. you could just disrespect his ADS and keep running forward. There is also principal of line of sight. Use objects to impair his ability to shoot you. As @roundpitt states, good survivor can flawlessly dodge his gun at distance. Your lazy to learn how to play against the character.
This is why you keep parroting the same old Deathslinger is unfun, braindead and boring slogan that almost every survivor main player whines about when they do not like playing against the killer. Personally, I think he was fun, interesting and took a lot of skill to play correctly. Overall I enjoyed playing survivor against his old-self. His current version for me is boring, uninspiring and somewhat braindead to play against.
Also I am more of Hens's opinion - people don't like current DS, because he now takes skill to play as opposed to be free.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296346#Comment_3296346
no, hens knows what he is doing vs slinger as seen in otz's showcase of deathslinger at high-level play. He is playing vs slinger correctly. I am just disappointed in the whole slinger has unreactable gun and that there is no nuance to his old gameplay when there clearly was. it just was not full proof because its not suppose to be full proof like the current one. I obviously do not believe SWF is broken, more so then killer is weaker role for most killers because of balance for casuals. my post is directed to Archol123 who keeps saying that deathslinger had no counter-play/nuance to his gameplay.
But again - also Hens said old DS was "free". He could really just run at you and raise/lower his gun all the time and never commit to get you. Loose loose situation with 0 counter play. No fun to play against and braindead to play as (which again - told in a way less words - is something Hens said in that video at that timestamp).
The ADS change was good one. The problem was, that he never got some compensation buff. And I would be OK with some - say give him 2 spears per one reload. Or something else entirelly. I don't really know what should be the buff. But it should be something that actually has some skillful counter play.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/358155/hex-huntress-lullaby-rework
25% is way too high, the regression itself is actually fine, although the removing of greats is a nice touch. I almost think it would be better to give it multiple effects one for each stack.
Example:
0 stacks. Eliminates great skill checks and 6% regression penalty kicks in.
1 stack. Dull totem lights up and No progression bonus for succeeding skill checks.
2 stacks. Skill check success zone reduces in size by %, and Skill check rotation speed increases by %
3 stacks. 7 second aura read on failed skill check of person who failed skill check
4 stacks. Failed skill checks loud noise notification becomes audible for everyone, when skill check is failed killer gains 5% movement speed for X seconds
5 stacks. No audible warning for skill checks.
Ive left some numbers blank and the order could be played with but you get the idea.
While this perk is not very useful against high skill and experienced players, it is a bonafide noob stomper, and a plague for people with bad reflexes, and can be pretty rough on console players in general.
Personally while not a noob by any stretch, I am on console, and have poor reflexes, and as it is once this thing hits 5 stacks I can't touch gens till its gone. Thats without even taking into account doctor and other stuff that makes skill checks more difficult.
0-stack version does not sound good to me. The perk should not have any effect or it should be lit up. Not both. Having hex working without being hex is... Not hex. Combine stacks 0 and 1 into single stack (choose whichever you want). Then it's good idea. Lullaby indeed needs buff as it is almost useless at current state
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296256#Comment_3296256
more ping = easier to react to because each action has cumulative delay due to latency though some games allow you to queue actions, not sure about dbd because DBD is fps game. For example, before nurse's rework, you had to blink then press m1 manually to m1 out of a blink and if you press m1 too early, you would skip your m1, but post nurse's rework, you can queue a blink and m1 attack. I do not think you can do with deathslinger because he aim first then you need to fire. The result is more ping means you will get delay for pressing aim down sight then pressing the fire gun action leading to overall more time to see incoming shot. it would be easier to react to the gun if you had Mcdonald wifi connection.
I don't know about the grabs, because then you turn it into a loose loose situation for the survivor.
No you cannot?? Based on reaction time + ping that is more than the travel distance, it is physically impossible to dodge that thin??
In summary, The two reasons why slinger got changed is because lesser skilled players complained about lose/lose situations that did not exist(they were just making bad reads on when he is going to shoot). The other reason is lesser skilled players like you believe that is gun is unreactable and if the deathslinger had good aim, he always hits his shot while better player understood how to hold-w and make distance on a 110% m/s to outplay his gun. DBD always balances killer off bad players, so there is nothing to more to talk about regarding slinger. He will remain as unfun killer to play until his changes are reverted which is unlikely given this conversation. Just because your bad at versing him does not mean that everyone is bad vs ranged killers.
Are you calling Hens lesser skilled player? Because again - in video that was provided here (timestamp 3:54:30) he talked how old DS was FREE. That this DS is much better, because this one actually requires skill. And that this deathslinger in his opinion is much more for to play as and to play against.
It's very weird you would call him lesser experienced, because he is the person people point out how SWF is broken. And if you want to call him biased survivor main - you will see him play killer waaaaay more often then survivor. I would in fact guess it's 80% killer 20% survivor (but these numbers are just my guess, they could be slightly different).
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@Archol123 you are not even really correct. Yes. Killer's ping does not even out with survivor's ping. It's way worse then what you wrote.
@Devil_hit11 I will explain to you why you are absolutely not correct about ping evening out between killer and survivor.
The reason being, that actual killer hits are defined by what killer sees. This is the reason, why huntress can hit you behind the corner or wesker can grab you thru the window even if you left it for several meters etc or any other killer can hit you with M1 even after you vaulted that window and made 5 steps away from it (this can be really felt on really bad killer pings). For this reason, killer's (and also survivor's) ping does not matter to killer, but it does matter to survivor. He will get information about killer trying to aim at him only once the packet about this action arrives to survivor (so this is again same reason why some horrible-ping killers (say 300+ms) can shoot you without ever aiming at you or nemesis using his tentacles without ever charging it and so on). For these reasons killer has time buffer of killer ping + survivor ping to actually hit survivor.
To show an example. Say 115% killer (e.g. trapper) and survivor are at some short wall with pallet. Killer has 100ms ping and survivor 50ms ping. Survivor is standing next to pallet and waiting for killer to react to him. Once killer decides to move one direction, survivor will see this movement only after 100ms - meaning killer's position is already about 0,415m closer to survivor then what he sees. Now there's some reaction time (this is smaller then your 200-300ms, because when you expect this situation - then you are more aware and can react sooner - say 50ms, but I don't know exact average human reaction number) until survivor starts to move + 50ms until this information arrives to killer and updates survivor's position on his screen. This in fact results in 100ms+50ms+50ms = 200ms survivor "not moving at all" time out of which 150ms is just network slowdown. For this reason killer can be 0,83m away before survivor even starts to move in some direction.
If the game was changed to be "server based" for hits (same way as other online games work), then all the hits would be evaluated only on server. This means that killer with 100ms ping would have much harder time now, because survivor's position would be 0,4m different to what he would see. This would also result in killer seeing that he hit that survivor but game actually telling him he did not hit him. On the other hand, survivors would not get just barely hit (in this specific example) when 100ms+50ms outside of hit zone (or 0,415+0,2m = 0,615m when in safety), but only 50ms outside it (or 0,2m when in safety on their display). This would overall feel much better on survivors and would eliminate reason why some killers play with VPN connected to some distant server (like European killer playing in US or in Asia to have easier time). The better the ping, the better the experience for both sides.
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No. Usually there are way too many hooks in the trial anyway. You would know if you ever tried to play survivor with saboteur. It's quite common killer can pick 5-7 hooks in his vicinity where to hook the person (this happens every time killer downs someone outside of corner and the map is not midwitch), this is even much more on some maps (hello to saloon). Or even if survivor gets downed in the middle between 3 hooks, killer picks one and you sabotage it directly to his face (and take hit so he has less time to hook), he will more often then not still have enough time to hook that survivor on next hook. At least destroyed hooks equalize this state a little. This presumes no iron grasp or agitation perks (these perks hard-counter any sabo plays if killer does not get ultra greedy for scourge hook or basement)
If anything, hook spawns should reduce number of hooks that spawn toward center. Perfect sabotage plays (that still require good guess on survivor's side and the other survivor being downed on correct spot) should most of the time result in save. It should not be 50/50 after sabotaging hook without killer noticing coming directly under the hook and survivor taking hit to delay.
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@Seraphor said:
Just wondering, do people actually prefer having keys and maps separate? Any pros to that? Or do y'all just not care?
I think there is no longer any reason to keep them separate. Sure in times of old hatch system having both key and hatch-tracking map on same item was broken (beyond how actual hatch was broken). So it made sense in those times. Now there is 0 reason to ever want them separate. They are both worst items in game. So why not combine their puny benefits to at least 1 still at most OK item?
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@AssortedSorting said:
If a Survivor wants out of a match quick, and they’re being left to bleedout, let them crawl under a Hook and stop moving.
Doing so will increase the bleedout speed so long as the Survivor continues not to move or Recover, and is within 1m of the Hook. (This is interrupted by being healed/picked up as well)
I don't think buffing give up behavior without it being team-based is healthy for the game. People already complain about DC's ruining the experience. Buffing "kill myself" behavior should belong to same group.
Giving option for whole team to surrender (be it killer or survivors) is something else. This might make sense if MMR screws up bad or if some horrible mistakes are done.