Gandor
Gandor
About
- Username
- Gandor
- Joined
- Visits
- 5,003
- Last Active
Comments
-
@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292043#Comment_3292043
"I think reducing the reward you get by tunelling is a better strategy."
Punishment behavior has been shown to be ineffective.
Your solution does not address the root cause of tunneling : Killers feel they need to tunnel to catch up to gen speed completion.
Your idea might work if the game had some kind of basekit lockout where if a "free hook" got used up then one gen stayed locked until that survivor were freed (only one at a time).
False. People will camp & tunnel as long as it's best strategy to win. Even if killers would have 95% win rate, people will still camp and tunnel. Because people like to win. You are prime example, because aparently for you ~60% kill rate is still not enough.
-
@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292071#Comment_3292071
"you're completely misjudging what those guys can do."
No I'm not. Show me a comp killer and put them on trapper with 1 green 1 yellow addon. That's a 3 or 4 man escape on almost any map. There is so much difference in the power levels of the killers that it is brutally unfair.
yet you spoke about artist and spirit. Both are VERY. And I mean VERY viable in comp scene.
If spirit got no restriction (which is stupid), I am positive she indeed IS stronger then god nurse. All you need is amulet + MDR. No perks are really required, but you can take deadlock and some info perks for extra juice.
As for artist and basically this whole argument, watch this whole video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpbkGmt-C9o -
@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291966#Comment_3291966
"Chases got buffed in 6.1. yet tunneling is on it's peak."
Only in low middle tiers where you likely play because you think this is true.
Otz became more frustrated with DBD as a killer main after the 6.0 patch. High tier play got easier for survivors due to the 10 second BT and crazy gen rush perks like Hyperfocus.
Well let's think why. Maybe it's because people bring violet medkits every game now? Maybe most survivors didn't feel the need to bring ANY item at and before 6.0? Maybe BNP and proofthyself suddenly became something that survivors now bring to every game? Even if they did not change at all? Maybe survivors didn't genrush so much before 6.1? Maybe Otz still brings at most yellow offering where everyone else brings violet or pink stuff only now? Maybe you could try to ask Otz if patch 6.1 was survivor buff or nerf.
Also as I said before. The game is too much stress as survivor right now. So I barely play survivor. It's just today that I finished iri 1 as survivor while on killer I have it for 2 weaks already. Because survivor experience got that much worse. But you would understand if you actually cared to play both sides.
Also I am pretty sure the only reason why you are "high MMR" are 6.1 buffs and your camping+tunneling. You are the only person I have even heart of that considers 6.1 patch survivor buff
-
@VoidOfMe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291942#Comment_3291942
what does bubba have to do with what we're talking about?
I'm not saying dredge's power is THE MOST hated power, I'm saying it's ONE OF THE...
Bubba's power is hated cause of the camping issue
Knight's power cause of anitloop
DREDGE'S POWER IT'S BECAUSE OF LOW VISIBILITY ANNNNND accessibility
Isn't that what we're talking about? VISIBILITY?
Yes sure. Dredge's visibility is problematic. I just said it's not AS problematic as you make it out to be. There are much more hated and problematic things (because of different reasons then visibility). But if we limit it just to visibility problems, then I have to agree - dredge's power is the most problematic thing. And yet after some time you get used to it to the point it is no longer problem.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291817#Comment_3291817
I think the perk should be given a different niche, but even if you like what Eruption is meant to achieve right now there are better and more healthily balanced ways of achieving it.
like what? what exactly will reduce the survivor's total up-time on generators? its only perk right now that punishes survivors for being glued on generators. Rewards the killer for downs, punishes survivor for ineffective looping.
Incapacitated is just not a status effect that should be hitting someone for that long. It's a lot to ask of a survivor to do nothing for thirty full seconds
why? dbd already balances around survivors doing nothing, inefficiency.
Why? Because you need survivors to play the game. Check steam stats (as the available statistics) about ever-dropping number of players. Then see which players are always (not counting 1hour/day when a lot of SWF plays the game) is missing. Now do the math who is leaving the game and why.
I will give you a few hints. Camping, tunneling, 30+ minute games thanks to perks like eruption, nurse and her 2 recent buffs (5.5 and 6.1), tombstone piece, MDR spirit, desynch hits, 60% kill rate "is fair", this forum with above average number of suggestions that slightly or insanely buff killers
-
@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3290802#Comment_3290802
They tried that and survivors abused it so the dev's couldn't make it work.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3290818#Comment_3290818
You're missing the point. If there is a built in way that rewards chases more than tunneling then tunneling will sharply decline.
Rushing generators is what leads to tunneling in the first place; so if the deaths AND the generators all get slowed down then the game lasts longer and everyone gets to play more. Everyone gets to have a feeling they can win the game without outcome of the game swinging to one side very early.
Chases got buffed in 6.1. yet tunneling is on it's peak.
@DBDVulture said:
The Sun and Wind have a bet about who can remove a man's coat. The sun being wiser and older lets the wind go first. The wind huffs up and blows with all his might attempting to tear off the man's coat. But no matter how hard the Wind blows the man clenches his coat tighter as the cold air reaches him. Finally the Wind gives up and gives the Sun its turn.
The sun simply smiles and radiates warmth down on the chilly man. After a while the man grows warm by the sun and loosens his coat. In time he grows hot so he throws it over his shoulder and continues on his way.
Moral of the story : The sun wins the bet because he encourages an outcome that the man wants.
First let's ask: what reward does a killer get for tunneling one player out of the game?
The short answer is -25% gen reduction speed (forever).
Therefore hooking multiple different survivors needs to give a bonus that is better than -25% gen reduction speed without using a perk slot. Any bonus less than this will be inefficient compared to tunneling one person out of the game. Also fundamentally speaking one person dead is a huge advantage for the killer because it means if one person is down or on the hook that even though three people are alive it is very easy to have 25% out of 100% possible survivor actions going towards escape.
In other words Having one person dead means you get -25% to gen speeds but interrupting anyone else likely means that the gens are actually -50% or -75% progress if anyone : is hooked, downed, or injured. The more likely two players are hooked downed or injured pushes the game towards survivors having -75% progress instead of -25% progress.
The bottom line then is that the first three hooks the killer gets should give -25% generator speed as long as they are not on the same person (in which they already claimed the bonus).
When we look at good streamers and good players we see a huge problem with DBD. One person gets hooked and then two to three generators get completed. The hooked survivor is likely half way to stage two at this point. The killer then should stay and try to force that survivor to reach stage two. Then they should tunnel that player out of the game.
How do we prevent that scenario? We need to realize that punishing the killer with perks attempting to stop tunneling are not likely to work. Overall generator speeds need to go down and time for a single player to die needs to go up. The goal would be to make it so that more players are alive for more of the game and more of the game is happening while most of the generators are not completed so the killer can have some fun too. How do we do that?
1) Make Deadlock a base kit perk that lasts 30 seconds. Implement a "rollback protection" feature so that you can't 99% two generators and force a 0% generator to be locked. Make the Deadlock perk extend the base protection by 30 seconds (meaning generators get locked for 60 seconds if you also use the perk).
This will prevent the killer from feeling they must remove one player because they have traded 1/12 or 1/6th of their objective for 2/5 or 3/5 of the survivor objective.
2) Implement a -8% hook penalty upon hooking a survivor for the first time. This penalty would affect only that survivor, last the entire game and applies to: generators, healing, unhooks, totems, chests, doors, etc.
The penalty would only be available if you hook someone for the first time before eliminating another player.
3) Along with this implement the ability for survivors to "reclaim" some of the repair speed from a tunneled ally. If any survivor was not hooked before a player was killed then they can either reclaim 8% repair speed from the dead player by going to the hook where the player died and interacting with it. This action should take like ~10 seconds and the action repairs the destroyed hook.
Interacting with a dead survivor like this will give one survvior a "shimmery glow" similar to Christmas or other events to indicate that you have increased interaction speed.
4) Rework Dying light to not give any buffs to the survivor and just be a perk that says : upon hooking a survivor that was not the last survivor you hooked - every survivor gains -4% action speed to everything other than movement for the rest of the game.
5) Put me on your dev team because you don't seem to have the answers your players are looking for to keep the game exciting and fun for the next six years.
While we are at it make survivors need to fix 20 gens. That will give every killer enough time to exhaust all resources in the map and make looping totally pointless. Or playing survivor (and ultimatelly also killer) as well. Again killers already got buffed so that they have about 60% kill rate instead of balanced 50%. Your suggestion would make it just 90%, but at minimum it won't go under 80%. Also there's no reason to not "claim" all bonuses (hook everyone once and then tunnel them out). Additionally given current strength of regression, this suggestion would make 3-gens so safe, that even 5 hook states would not make it. Maybe if the game would become 5v1 this might maybe work. But I am not sure of even that. Also tunneling 1 survivor gives at minimum 33% regression if killer is not afk (you always chase someone), but realistically around 50% (people need to heal, do boons or destroy bones, do chests, move around the map, prepare for saves, etc).
Also if you care about first 3 gens, bring corrupt. I do that every game and it's rare that 1 gen pops by the time I down 1st person (it sure happens, but usually only after I am in chase with second person).
Also given your ideas. Super hard no to point 5,
-
@VoidOfMe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291679#Comment_3291679
Yes, one of the most hated killer power ever created.
Just look what people think of his power and you will know what I'm talking about.
I see you have never saw bubba and his camping potential. Or knight and his "turn off this loop or I don't do anything" power. Or trickster's main event in basement. Or nurse blinks.
There are many more problematic things in this game then dredge's power
-
@TheMruczek said:
No. Just no. It would kill many builds and we would see the same stuff all the time.
Bad map design, strong items, playing safe with killer powers/buffs by Bhvr, pushing killers into using only slowdown perks (look at how many survivor perks are strong against aura reading, lack of amazing chase perks for your average killer etc).
These are things that hinder Dbd's balance.
And from survs POW - stacked slowdown, overtuned slowdown perks, not enough info for soloQ, camping, tunneling, bad maps, lack of resources, desynch hits 5m behind the window (laggy killers are absolute nightmare, you have shorter time to react to changes and killers look like they can throw their weapons).
-
@AverageAshEnjoyer said:
It's still distinct enough
I disagree. Also why can't those hooks be light blue? Or have part of it's aura (say edges) still white (or yellow if it's special gen/hook)?
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/357687/my-take-on-how-to-change-eruption
eruption is specifically designed to be a perk to refund the time in kicking generators. Incapacitated is how the entire perk gains value.
When they changed scourge hook pain resonance, one of description of dev's opinion in regard to that perk was jack of trades perk. Eruption is now jack of all trades perk. It does everything. it has regression, incapacitated and tracking capacity from survivor's screaming. With how current version of how this perk functions, it is combined mini-pop goes weasel+mini dead man switch. I could heavily see dev's weakening the perk by removing the regression of the perk simply because pop goes weasel is supposedly meant to fill the role of a generator kicking perk that provides raw regression to generators while no other perk fills the role of applying incapacitated effect on survivors.
a possible change to the perk is removing the regression aspect of the perk from 10%->0%. Perhaps they might improve the incapacitated effect of the perk from 25 second->30 seconds and add a 5 second lingering effect upon leaving the generator to prevent clever survivors from avoiding the effect. The perk would be less of jack of all trade perk and more of specialized perk.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291753#Comment_3291753
This change sounds like a change that punishes weaker killers who typically have longer chase times but keeps the perk exactly the same for stronger killer that end chases quickly.
Oh yes. It refunds the value. Then it gives it fully back and then it repeats that 3x times. That is if you play against solo. Against SWF the perk is strong (you can't always say you will go down in time) but fully ok. 40s gen slowdown per survivor hit by it. 9s if nobody was on the gen. One would say killers will realize when something is waaaay too op given they had to deal with old hatch mechanics, but aparently that's not the case. And I don't even consider info part of perk. That one does not really matter.
Imo the game would be overall much better if eruption swapped cd time with oppression or dragon's grip. That's how strong the perk is right now.
Also your solution is to make it from supper oppresive for solo to very oppressive for everyone. 36s slowdown (30s incapacitated +6s regression from 0% explosion survivor can't stop) is still way too much and unhealthy. For comparison BNP is considered most OP addon (especially when stacked) survivors can bring to a game. And it can at most progress gen by 22.5s after which it forever disappears. Yet hitting survivors multiple times (with just 30s cooldown) with more then 1,5x anti-BNP is healthy? And there will be no dodging it with your version. Game breaking change.
-
@AverageAshEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291802#Comment_3291802
ig its supposed to be a 'fun' event. not really something that affects core gameplay. still cool nonetheless
I will not jump into snowman this year before gate gets open. That's about as fun as they are. Devs shouldn't have even bothered with them this year. Total waste of time
-
@SpaghettiYOLO said:
Incapacitated is fine. I'd say the perk is fine in terms of its effects and lengths. What should be changed about it is it should have a timer on how long it can be applied to a gen. Call of Brine is 60 seconds, Overcharge is 30 seconds. Eruption should have a 45 second timer before the effect leaves the gen. If it doesn't get procced in that time, no cooldown. If it does proc, then it still gets the normal cooldown it has now. This would solve a lot. Maybe even make it so it can only be applied to a maximum of 3 gens. I feel like both of these suggestion would make it much healthier. People will still complain, but the perk was nearly useless when the Incapacitated effect was 16 seconds.
16s was plenty so that survivor working on a nearby gen did not come and flash saved or sabotaged. Anyway giving it 45s cooldown sounds much more reasonable. This will make it so, that killer will have harder time keeping his 3gen indefinitelly. So it will no longer create unwinnable games when playing solo
-
Well now snowmen have 0 sense. They did not have to bother with them. Totally useless.
I agree that making them extra health state mid chase or counter to ghostface was too much. Now? I see 0 reason to ever jump into one apart from cheesily prolonging endgame for some extra BP. Why even bother?
-
Saboteur and scourge hooks too
-
@Batusalen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290399#Comment_3290399
An abstract of your whole post: "Killer op, killer should let survivors win by design or for personal reasons"... k
But I want to mention a couple of things:
'Your argument is, all odds are against killer, because I said so' I already gave plenty of reasons of why this is a fact, but if you need more here is a comment I did in another post, go and read it as I don't even feel like take the effort to copypaste it here for you: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290569#Comment_3290569
'And what your suggestion actually "help with" is making sure EVERY killer is able to be in this standoff.' 'The only thing it would do is make camping easier and more rewarding = more people doing it.' 'Also your suggestion would do exactly NOTHING to reduce camp and tunnel.' Care to explain how reworking a game mechanic so it explicitly remove the necessity to camp would not only not reduce camping, but make more people do it? And the same logic for the tunneling, as if I don't have the need to take out one survivor ASAP I won't be obligated to target that one survivor I just hooked.
And for the patches part... I have read all the patch notes of that patches and I don't see any instance of camping being buffed... or any other claim you made, in fact. So I will guess that you are sitting down right now in the source of all that included that well rounded, scientifically obtained, totally documented and true percentage of "face camping killers" you used there. But I wasn't playing the game back then, so if I'm wrong you are free to indicate me in which part of the patch notes says any of that (apart of the Reassurance perk)
'And you say that making camping and tunneling safer because you can block gen even better will deminish it?' And yet again, you fail to clarify how and why adding a cooldown to broken generators would make camping and tunneling safer.
Keep trying.
Because it has been tried? Remember patch 6.1? Again. There's NEVER EVER been so much camping and tunneling as when patch 6.1 arrived - even if virtually EVERY game ended up in 4K (at least for a few days/first week). Why did those killers camp? Did they have to even if they would win anyway? No they did not. Yet they DID. So explain to me WHAT would suddenly change if the game got easier for killers but camping and tunneling would still be best strategy to win. Why do you think someone would stop camping and tunneling? There's 0 reason why somebody would stop tunneling. Everyone would still camp & tunnel "just in case" or to "ensure the win". As was demonstrated by patch 6.1.
I don't see any instance of camping being buffed.
That's because you have 0 game sense. You would know if you played the game for both sides at least very little. What is the proposed "counter" to (face)camping killers? Right. "Just do gens". What did patch 6.1 do? +10s to finish generator and +0s on hook. Which perk prolongs doing gens even without killer doing anything? Deadlock. Did it get nerfed so successful camping was not possible? No it did not. So by this patch bubba that facecamps survivor suddenly killed 2 survivors by the time last gen poped. Still had enough time to find another survivor with NOED and camp that another survivor to death = 3K almost every game with minimal effort. And this even expects survivors know what's going on and go immediately on gens. Otherwise it's 4K every time.
If you read patch notes 6.2 also did not nerf this tactics, yet it mysteriously no longer worked the way it did before - because yes, reassurence got into the game. That's also the reason why camping dropped significantly (as opposed to patch 6.1).
And yet again, you fail to clarify how and why adding a cooldown to broken generators would make camping and tunneling safer.
Again you have 0 sense to understand. I will first start with camping - more time for killer for doing bare minimum = more time to spend waiting until that survivor dies. I will give you another hint - if you make each hook state take 30s instead of 1 minute, the game will break, because every killer would be able to stand in front of hook, wait 1 minute and turn the game to 3v1, or hook trade, or have 0 people on gens because for every unhook 3 (healthy) people would be required to come. And as for tunneling - if you are able to (face)camp, you don't need to look for unhooked person. He will be right there in front of your eyes. Also that person will no longer have OTR protection, because all you need to do is hit him right as he gets unhooked with 0 chance of survivor dodging it. DS got nerfed so tunneling is even easier (you can just eat DS without any worry - especially on more mobile killers) and there would be 0 counter against it.
You have to have VERY little understanding of game to not see this. But I am not even surprised considering what you propose was done to the game. Try to play survivor at least a little. Like 1/20th of your killer games. It will actually also help you a bit with your killer games. Also you will stop with these outright stupid and game breaking suggestions.
-
@Batusalen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290230#Comment_3290230
"However a survivor mistake can throw the whole match a killer mistake isn't as punishing and most of the time you can recover." False. Every hit not done, every DH not baited, every loop failed, pallet hit or survivor missed is time that gen you just kicked is being repaired to completion, and a game where 2-3 gens are done without having fully hooked at least a survivor is almost a lost game unless they f up in some way (and right now survivors are doing that amount after having kicked 2 gens, hurting 2 of them and hooked one for the first time without even bloodlust activating). And you saying this and that you can win "99.9%" of games with any killer, I don't care how much "op" you think some killer or addons are makes me think you don't play as killer as much as you say you do.
And I'm talking about core game mechanics, but you don't stop bringing perks and addons to the mix, which of course, if game mechanics are changed would need to be rebalanced, but again, without taking in count perks, tools, map generation or anything else, some base game mechanics need a change because yes, survivor abuse them and is provoking a lot of things that people complain about. It is a fact.
But hey, if you want to talk about perks and all the things on top of the abusable game mechanics fine, let's talk about them: Killers being against the clock "has always been like that", the thing is people don't play the game now as they played it then, and survivors didn't have the plethora of speed boost, second chances, self healing and anti-tunneling protection they have now. Things that even if a killer play in the most perfect way possible, can throw away it's accomplishments with the push of a button. On top of that and even more importantly, something that survivors seems to forget, it's that they have the biggest advantage there is as "base kits": Numbers. Numbers, coordination and even communication. Let's break them down like a gen:
· Numbers: Self explanatory. 4 people * 4 perks per person + 4 tools = 32 things that can get in the way of the killer and nullify his efforts. Even without the other two, being 4 is the main advantage of survivors (and how the game is designed right now, even more) as even if they are not organized or even good players they can do a lot together. Hell, even the noobiest noob with a flashlight or Prove Thyself can do a lot for their team. Add skilled players with good perk builds to the equation and doesn't matters who the killer decide to chase, they would make that chase a nightmare, hopping from pallet to pallet, window to window, to the end of times while his other 3 partners are doing whatever they feel like. And when there is only one of those, well, just go for the weak, but when there is 4 people like that, with flashlights to blind you or sabotage the hook you where going to, makes every chase a gamble against all odds and waist of time even when you succeed, even more if you have to drop that chase.
· Coordination: Again, self explanatory. And no, I'm not talking just about SWF squad with Discord, that's the next part. Even 4 SoloQ players that know what they are doing can coordinate to f the killer. Some examples: If I am with another survivor in a gen, the killer comes and start chasing the other guy, I will just hide beside the generator and continue fixing it had the killer kicked it or not and putting him in a lose / lose situation whatever he do. If I see a survivor being downed I will stay close and if there is a hook close, I will sabotage it, or if I'm not injured I will try to block the killer so him can escape. And no, I'm not complaining of survivors helping each other and cooperating, that's the main fun of the game... but I think you would agree that this is still an advantage survivors have.
· Communication: This is the big one. This is the one and main advantage that every survivor main I have seen in this forums ignore at the scream of "Won't somebody pLeAsE think of the SoloQ players?". It's so much an advantage that I think any killer can notice when even a two SFW with voicetalk are in the game. SWF using meta communications allow survivors to not only make use of the other advantages to perfection using perk builds, tools and roles to transform their squad in an "killer time losing Swiss knife" prepared to deal with anything the killer can throw at them, they can do the most unfair thing for the killer and most advantageous thing for survivors... TALK. They can literally pinpoint the killer position to their friends, warn them when him is going their direction, told them where the gens are, when the killer is or isn't chasing them, when to cross paths so one of the others takes a hit for them, when and where to be prepared to drop a pallet or flashlight the killer to prevent a grabbing... etc, etc, and etc.
So, unless you are a person with the survivor mentality of "killer being able to attack is so op, nerf m1", any other guy would say that survivors start with some great base advantages over the "Not-so-unstoppable killer", even when comparing the utilities both have at his disposal. Because yes, killers has some really good and strong perks (let's take aside the fact that many of this perks have being nerfed or reworked so they are easily avoidable and survivors can effectively make a perk slot of the killer totally useless), but for strong they are, they are still just 4 perks. Doesn't matters what advantage they give the killer, the amount of advantages survivors perks gives them on top of the base advantages they have by design are abysmal. Oh, but we are not done yet! Now is time to awnser your question...
"what the game allow survivors do and abuse? Abuse what..."
Well, just to name a few of the things, from less advantageous to god tier:
· Locker spamming: You are chasing a survivor, the survivor get to a locker in front of your face and start spamming space trying to stun you if you are fool enough to get close and avoid getting hit in the process. Easy avoidable, more a nuance than anything, but makes you waste a couple of your precious seconds to stop it, even more if you hit them just when getting in again, what locks the survivor in the animation and takes a couple of seconds more for them to get out in dying state.
· Body blocking: Getting in the way of the killer to make him run out the time for hook someone, putting the killer in the situation to have to hit him, being even more slowed down and losing more time, or walk in zigzag to avoid them at the same time you suffer the grabbed survivor struggle (combine this with Boil Over for the most fun experience). This usually don't work, but some times do, and even if it doesn't is annoying like hell.
· Map positions with no hooks: Sometimes, map generation don't put hooks close to some part of the maps. This is still a thing just as infinite loops whatever anybody says. It happens less, but it still happens. Survivors, when knowing they are going down, will just go to this places knowing that if you try to hook them you won't have enough time to do so. Even better, get to a high place while having Boil Over and it would be impossible for you to hook them, bad map generation or not. This have a simple solution, but then they would cry "slugging" when the game is over...
· Generator tapping: This is what is making play as a killer feel bad, because is what survivors are abusing like hell every single game right now (at least the ones I play) and is the core to a lot of things all people complains as it only generates lose / lose situations for the killer forcing him to tunnel, to 3gen camp or equip NOED so he can try to do something at the end game and makes him feel being "gen rushed" as I already said. The main case of this abuse is up to 2 or 3 survivors will gangbang a generator no matters what, and if the killer comes the moment he he turns around one would at minimum tap it and revert the break down before keep running, if the killer even bothers to kick it in a situation like that. But that is just one! Survivors would tap stop the break down mid-chase, would hide close to the gen and not one second after the killer isn't looking tap it and hide again, hell, they will even get a hit if they aren't injured to tap it and even finish it mid chase if they know there is little progress left to go, because they know that whatever the killer do, in that situation, he loses.
So yeah, there is some abuse of game mechanics survivors do in a per game basis. Hell, even me have done the gen tapping thing as a survivors in almost every game I have the chance and I just play survivor for farming BP and getting challenges / dailys done.
And just for fun... "Killers are the ones who can abuse since most game breaking bugs happens for the killers" lol I don't know what bugs killers had, but I can told you two that survivors have right now and was done to me: One guy hopped on top of the ladder's railing in Backwater swamp, making me impossible to grab him. He will just stay there waiting for his friend to come and heal him... to bad for him I dropped the game and dedicated my time to make sure he just died by slowly and painful bleeding. And the other (even tho I don't know if it was a bug or hacks) survivors can open the lockers's doors without even stoping or hopping it mid chase, making them open, make the noise, but keep running, which is distracting and annoying as hell, apart of allowing them to confuse the killer and make him wast time because he is sure the survivor went to a locker.
So, taking all this in count we can conclude that: all this game mechanics abuse + base advantages survivors have specially the ability to voicetalk and coordinate + perks that a good player would use with godly precision making killer lose time even for baiting it + not avoidable perks like speedboost + base speed boost and slow down for killer on hit + tools savings = playing this game as killer against 4 skilled survivors full tryhard perk build (even worst if SWF with voicechat) is like playing basketball 1 vs 4 while you are wearing an ankle weight, you can only score alley hoops to yourself, there are 8 balls in game and if someone wears some kind of shoes can take the ball out of your hands without you being able to resist, and if you somehow beat all the odds and win, someone would be mad because "You holded the ball for 30 seconds straight!"... is bs, is frustrating and many times feels like the game is designed for killers to make survivors feel good, something that many survivors seems to really believe.
Now, what I'm saying is "Hey, I'm fine with all the other stuff, but can we at least change some of the outdated basic and abusable rules, like allowing me to take out of the game a couple of balls for a short time so you can't rapid fire me before I can even do a proper alley hoop and I don't have to resort to tactics nobody likes for winning?" and all I hear is "survivors are defenseless, playing killer is easy, git good".
So again, is not about perks, is not about bugs, is not even about skill, it's about removing one of the game mechanics that survivors abuse so the game can be better for everybody, including survivors, as right now is the main disease that is provoking much of the symptoms people complain about. And if you don't understand it by now, well, I have nothing more to say, so have a nice day and we'll met in the fog.
You are so entitled that you are 100% blind. I would bet everything you NEVER actually play survivor.
" "However a survivor mistake can throw the whole match a killer mistake isn't as punishing and most of the time you can recover." False. "
As a survivor it's possible to winning the game whole game perfectly - looping killer for 5 gens and having 0 hooks in a game and all. Then at the very end when exit gates are prepared - make single big mistake and the game can end in 4K. The reverse is not possible. Killer can't play perfectly, get 8 hooks at 5 gens and then do single mistake that would result in 4 out. Not possible by doing SINGLE mistake.
"some base game mechanics need a change because yes, survivor abuse them and is provoking a lot of things that people complain about."
Have you ever heard about camping and tunneling? It's actually killers that abuse base gameplay mechanics and these 2 tactics are being complained about for several years now. Yet it still remains part of the game. And that is fact. Not your statements that for some weird reason you think are facts.
"and survivors didn't have the plethora of speed boost, second chances, self healing and anti-tunneling protection they have now"
You clearly didn't play the game back when it in fact was heavily survivor sided. Insta fixing gens. Permanent hook sabotages. Many many more resources in a game (shack having 2 windows). Self care in 16 seconds. Insta heal being in fact instant. Possibility to escape via hatch and not just last person - possibly everyone could escape and so on. Killers were NEVER in whole history as strong as they are now. And this IS the fact backed up by occasional statistics that devs provide (60% kill rate was never before patch 6.1 a thing in whole history of DBD as far as any stats were ever given).
As for your numbers - NO SURVIVOR HAS SPEED LIKE KILLER. No survivor can eliminate killer. No game mechanics allow survivor to fly, dash, teleport or do any of the things killer has. You just conveniently want to forget that killer and survivor ARE NOT THE SAME. Killer has stronger perks so survivors have more perks. Killer has higher speed so survivors have more bodies and so on. In fact killer is stronger then any single survivor could ever be - and that's how it should be. For this reason there are 4 survivors. That's how asymmetrical games work.
About your balance. It all boils down to which team wins more. And there's just no debate to be had about this one, because we have official numbers from developers of this game. And they speak loud and clear - taking into account all killers, they win 59% of the time. Taking into account best killers only, it's 61% of the time. Meaning killer actually IS OP. He wins more then he looses. If that's not your case, it means you are just pure bad at the game. I know that on my games as killer (because I refuse to play survivor at this state of the game - all the incentives that try to persuade me be damned) I win way more often then I loose.
Also you are VERY CLEARLY at the beginning of playing the game. I would guess no more then 100hrs in game. You are the first person I see that actually cries in pain about perk deception. Get good. Learn from people that play this game. Watch streamers. Then go to forum and suggest changes that touch everyone's experience. You just don't know how much you don't know about the game.
-
@Remedicist said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290187#Comment_3290187
The 2k/2e makes sense, but if a killer is only getting that result or even more kills simply because they have that perk that instantly downs a survivor at the endgame with no work put into that, that's a problem. The 2k/2e should be balanced around the other parts of gameplay in which both sides contribute, and would most likely still be the case even if the perk was reworked. Even from a matter of fairness, the perk isn't fun to play against similar to the current problem people have with Eruption.
The perk gives you free-ish (not fully free. You can loop 120% killer for some time if you still have resources on a map) single down most of the time (sometimes killer is able to hook next to NOED which makes it really hard on survivors - this makes it free-ish kill for killer and possibly the only thing/interaction that has any kind of problem attached to it). Everything else is earned. Survivors should be able to find and cleanse NOED well within the time the chased one is being hooked and camped (if he is not being camped, just unhook and get out of the gate). Sure if survivors do make mistakes, killer can sometimes turn it into 4K. That is unfortunate, but that's also a huge mistake on survivor's side.
Now I have not heared people complain about rancor. This perk however gives you very cheap kill just by catching survivor exactly once (and not killing him before endgame). So it's arguably even stronger then NOED. Why should I consider rancor fair (I do btw) and NOED unfair?
-
@brewingtea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286768#Comment_3286768
I don't think changing the FOV will lead to them removing windows and pallets.
Every time this is suggested, the people against it come up with dumb slippery-slope BS like this. They don't have any actual concrete objections to it. If they did, they'd share it without having to be shamed for their stupidity, first.
They believe BHVR will remove pallets. Think about who we're arguing against
Ok. So removal of window tech is not specific objection. Removal of hiding before rushing killer (nurse, blight, oni, spirit, ...) is not specific objection. FOV tech is also not specific objection. 360 is also not specific objection. All of these things will suffer greatly by removing restricted FOV killers currently have.
So once again. How easy you want the game to become? What when will you stop? 60% kill rate is really not enough? Do you really need to remove EVERYTHING survivors currently have? Didn't the patch 6.1 do enough already?
-
@feechima said:
So we've established how easy three gens are on maps with gens really close together. Smaller maps are especially problematic BUT Haddonfield is a huge map. Is main house really the only place devs could put two gens within meters of each other? It becomes the focal point in over half my matches where the team tries to immediately complete one and/or the killer immediately does a three gen defense. This is helped along by the gen that spawns downstairs in the house next to it, or in the back yard of the house just to the left of it. Atleast put it upstairs where the killer actually has to walk a bit.
Next we have the split in half RPD Maps. Main entrance spawns two gens incredibly close and possibly one just in the upper right room just past the staircase pallet.
The main entrance is also usually the battleground where killers choose to camp or hook every survivor, and of course where every survivor looping the killer ends up running past thanks to the design that feeds all ends through the entrance.
In solo queue if your teammates have no situational awareness and you're the only one trying to pressure these gens ALONE its a lose-lose.
The reason for headonfield is pretty straightforward. It has 2 houses that are very easy to loop in. So devs decided to balance it out with giving the killer one hell of a nasty 3gen. Overall the map has 2 nasty things that balance itself out. I think the map is overall balanced with this regard.
As for RPD - the reason is huge number of pallets present in the map. I still think the map and almost guaranteed 3gen or even 4gen (there are multiple rooms that can be chained to main for very close gens together). On the other hand the map is still on a large side with many different resources that can be used. For some killers these pallets will make winning the game almost impossible. For others they will not mind at all. I think they could buff the map a little bit towards survivors (by adding 1 or 2 additional windows or making some loop a little stronger), but either way I would not really remove 3gen even on this map.
-
It's already a thing and it's not a problem. The perk is on a weak side (it doesn't really need a buff as it's quite good on huntress and trickster and potentially on doctor and legion), but it's good the way it is now. I might be ok with very slight buff to the perk actually
-
@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290354#Comment_3290354
If you're affected by the perk, don't just wait near the generator, go get the save. When the killer downs someone, there will be a player that will need to stop working on a generator. You absolutely can't count the 25 seconds as gen regression when those 25 seconds would also happen without Eruption.
In over 2k hours I haven't seen a single instant of Eruption affecting all 3 survivors, it's really a non problem.
Well I have seen it multiple times. Especially in 3gen defense situation when in soloQ. Killer defends his 3gen (kicking all 3 gens close to each other). He will eventually commit to 4th one. You and your whole team need to work on that gen as much and as efficiently as possible to break that 3gen. And as you have no idea if/when that last person goes down, you have no idea when to stop repairing it. And getting hit by eruption like this will literally give you NOTHING ELSE to do in the map. You can't go sabotage the hook because incapacitated. You can't go for flash save because incapacitated. You can't go repairing gens, because incapacitated. You can't go heal (should you be injured), because incapacitated. What should you go do in this case? And sorry but this does happen to me every 10th game or so. I have no idea how you could have not seen it in 2k hrs.
-
@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290034#Comment_3290034
It's a bit pretention to say that only you care about health of the game, and anyone disagreeing with you doesn't.
Eruption is so far from being a problem right now. I do get that it's a frustrating perk to face when solo (or duo even), but it's not "overpowered", it's actually the weakest of the 3 most popular slowdown perk, Call of Brine and Overcharge are much more of a problem.
It's only 8% regression and it won't apply its effect all the time to survivors. It can also be countered with perks like Bond, empathy or fogwise. It requires setup while CoB/Overcharge don't. It requires someone working on an affected generator because 8% is pretty trash by itself.
I personally wouldn't be against reducing the duration if the gen loss is increased, but I feel like it will just make it a perk like every other slowdown perk.
Also I don't know if you meant Eruption was the most problematic Perk, but outside of perks, there are bigger problems to fix for the health of the game. Tunneling, for example, is litterally a strategy that can be easily used by any killer thatr is getting absolutely destroyed, to get an easy comeback and an easy 4 kills. Some killers also just tunnel from the start of the game and get an easy 4 kill without putting in much effort. Any killer can just play without any perk or add-on and get a near guaranteed 4 kills by tunneling, because it's just way too easy to tunnel and being 1v3 at 2 gens remaining is a guaranteed win.
It has become to the point where it matches the definition of an exploit, yet is legal, abused, and cancels the game of a player. Worst, if you're not playing solo, you die first and have to watch the rest of the match to wait for your friends.
I really don't think Eruption is that big of a deal, or any perk whatsoever, when killers can get 4 kills guaranteed ever since DS has been deleted from the game. There are a lot of ways to fix that, but it is a priority right now before we talk abouit perk balance.
1, eruption is 10% (so 9s). Not 8%. You probably mistook it for jolt (which is fine perk that is NOT the problem).
2, You can't counter the perk with bond or empathy. Those perks will only tell you where someone is running or maybe possibly if injured person is being chased. It will give you 0 information when they will go down. You have no idea if chased person will go down now or in 2 minutes. Both are possible and there's no information for you to distinguish it. I will admit, that fogwise CAN counter it, because you will see when killer uses ability/M1. But you still will not know if he will be successful (that's fair) and you are possibly risking 10% regression by impossible-to-hit skillcheck (still fair), but you don't even really get to counter it properly, because even if you hit all great skillchecks, you will still see the killer at most 1/3rd of time (so you counter it at most to 1/3rd of the perk and that's just not good enough). Combine this with possibly 40s per survivor hit "generator regression" equivalent and it should be clear why the perk is very unfair in soloQ.
3, I think eruption (and I mean stricktly in soloQ. This does NOT apply to SWF) is same level of problem as tunneling. Eruption can literally solo carry bad killer to a win. If you get 3 people hit by it 2x in a game, (or eruption triggering 4x to altogether hit 6 people), then it provides higher value then any other perk in a game. CoB and OC included. You would need to be exceptionally bad to still loose such a game.
The only reason why it's not so good for everyone is, that SWF does exist. and against SWF the perk is actually underwhelming.
-
@Batusalen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290198#Comment_3290198
I want those interactions... because you say I want those interactions even after explaining in detail how I don't want them and how what I suggest would not have that effect? Please, explain to me how do you come to that conclusion even after explaining it in detail to you and how what I'm proposing is going to provoke "such an interactions". It would be great if you can also even try to contra-argument any of the things I have said to you in my response to your assumptions instead of just trying to lecture an Iridescent Rank 1 killer on how to be a good one with "I play as killer couple of times, killer op not buff".
Being killer is not easy, is stressful and frustrating, and as I have the same conversation with someone in another post I'm going to copypaste my answers to you because you are making exactly the same arguments (survivor mentality, I guess):
'And all you said about "what makes a good killer" is true and that's how it has to be in theory (again, Iridescent Rank 1 killer here! I didn't get it by not getting people in loops!)... that doesn't mean the game isn't unbalanced by design, and the way the game works right now all the pressure and all the odds are against the killer. And all of this without taking in count perks, tools and map generation, which only makes things worst and/or directly allows survivors to nullify killers good doing."
"You win most your games as I win mine: Not all players are good, not all players have the right build, not all the players are coordinated full SWF with voice talk, and all players sooner or later will make a mistake no matter how skillful they are. This doesn't means that there isn't core game mechanics that maybe worked fine in the past, but right now only let survivors abuse them and get an unfair advantage.'
And about the 3gen "hostage" situation:
'Why I would try to go chase someone, even less with just 1 gen to go, when that is giving them the chance to start a gen with me not being able to stop them to be repaired even for a second? Even if two survivors are left, the moment I chase one the other would repair, I stop the chase, patrol gens, see one is being repaired, kick it, and again, the lose / lose situation: Go search for the one I was chasing and give the one that is probably hiding close to the gen to keep repairing, or stay, search around the gen, find and chase the one hiding, pray he doesn't tap the gen in his run away, and while all this is happening give the other survivor the chance to start repairing other gen or come to the one I was and continue repairing, either way is back to the same situation as before... hell no, if I get to have 3 close up gen I will keep patrolling them even if I see a survivor in the distance, and if they make a mistake and I'm able to hook them great, if not, 1 hour game and I didn't win, but I didn't lose either. It's shifting the pressure back to the survivors and is the smart thing to do and because how the game works right now, it's the only safe choice to make for the killer here. Even if I wanted to go after someone in that situation, doing it would only give them a chance to win. This is also the reason perks like CoB is so much used, because it give me the option to not having to care about the gens for a while at least.'
And it is why my suggestion would help even with the 3gen holding situation, because... :
'[...] what is a thing and it is the core to much of the things survivors and killers complain alike is what the game allow survivors do and abuse which leads to the previously mentioned situations (one of the big ones, if not the biggest there is right now, again, is what I already said many times including my first comment and a post I made earlier) , which forces killers to tunnel to get a survivor out of the picture as soon as possible, force them to slug them if they can't reach a hook because it is better to have them bleeding on the ground and lose points if they don't get back up that making you lose more time, and unless you can do any of this things forces you to keep an eye on the generators and hope you get an easy kill instead of going after the survivors because every second a generator get progress is a second you are more close to lose, which again, leads to lose / lose situations for the killer the majority of the time, including what people call "gen rushing".'
Now, I hope your next answer has some more argumentation.
I am iri1 killer for 2 weeks now. What's that supposed to mean? Being iri1 is easy. Especially if you don't play soloQ (because in solo you can depip when your team decides to throw, not unhook you or you are tunneled from the 1st second of game). You can be straight up bad and still be iri1. Because it mostly depends on how much you play (sure if you are really bad and just facecamp all games, you will not get to iri ranks, but if you have at least mediocre-to-bad skill, you will eventually reach it). And "couple of times" means I still have about 50hrs on killer for this month only.
Your argument is, all odds are against killer, because I said so ™. From what I can see from my games, it's the other way around. Survivors sweat their asses off. There's never been so many BNP's and violet medkit+styptic/syringe since patch 6.1. And still killers have 60% kill rate. And if this does not work, then let's camp and tunnel - because anyone can do that and it's sure fire way how to quickly win it all. And suddenly you can encounter a pig that has no clue what "mindgame" is, killer players that say looping is impossible, requests to nerf survivors because they can win all the chases. Sure thing - if you got to play against survivors with multiple hours/skill/reflexes to yours because you "lerned" how to camp and tunnel instead of how to win chases, then yes. Those specific survivors are OP. And yet they will still probably loose the game in the end.
About you camping 3gen - because you should have been able to apply pressure before you got into that situation. Because you should have been good enough to create pressure at 3-5 gens. Because all you want is to hold the game hostage. There used to be the same situation in game in past. It was called hatch standoff. If both killer and survivor got to hatch, none could move, because the other one would win the game. You are asking for same thing now - survivors can't go to your 3gen, because it's pointless and you don't want to move away from it, because you are convinced, that you are bad enough to not be able to down anyone in time. So to cut this off the correct solution would be to delete such standoff - make holding 3gen indefinitely impossible. It used to be this way in the past, but after meta shakeup + a few new killers, this holding 3gen is going so much into territory of it being impossible to break, that some killer players have the audacity to ask for it to be even easier. No. The game should be designed so, that it always progresses. That's the reason why EGC was created. Before it, survivors were able to hide indefinitely. This got changed (thanks god). Would you like to go back in time and have survivors be able to hide until server cancels the game again?
And if you don't accept game design's POW why you should leave 3gen when chase opportunity arises. Your personal reason should be very clear. Because camping and not moving the game an inch is boring (and I will say for both sides). At least go down with dignity. Don't be like those last 2 survivors at 3 uncompleted gens that will just hide until the other one is found in hopes of finding a hatch. That's super boring. Enjoy the chases instead. Even if it means you will loose. As a survivor I will rather hop on a gen even if 5 are left to go before I would start to hide. Even if I know I will die precisely because of this. I will at least die after a fun chase. Not standing on a spot like a total sore looser.
And what your suggestion actually "help with" is making sure EVERY killer is able to be in this standoff. That's the EXACT opposite of what the game designers should do with the game. So no. It's not survivors abusing gen tapping. It's you abusing gen kicking perks that are overtuned right now.
Also your suggestion would do exactly NOTHING to reduce camp and tunnel. The only thing it would do is make camping easier and more rewarding = more people doing it. Do you know the time when killers camped in the game the most? It was at patches 6.1 (where camping got buffed) before patch 6.2 (where camping got countered by reassurence). In 6.1 good 50% of killers suddenly turned into face campers, because they could and they knew they just WILL win the game. Right after the patch where survivors got nerfed hard in chases. Right at the patch where killer win rate skirocketed for a few days. At this exact time camping was at it's peak usage. And you say that making camping and tunneling safer because you can block gen even better will deminish it? Don't make me laugh now. You don't believe it yourself.
-
@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290202#Comment_3290202
I mean, it will work more against soloQ that's for sure, but, CoB has no condition, Overcharge either, even the best players will sometimes lose focus and miss one skill check eventually. You just kick a gen and you kinda know it's going back to zero very quickly.
Eruption is more annoying. When it hits you just wanna scream, throw your keyboard and yell how OP it is. But in the end the gen only lost 8% and just go get the save if you're unable to do the gen.
In last post I calculated it. Hitting 1 survivor fully is 40.25 regression (9s explosion, 25s that you can't work and 6.25s as you can't stop gen regression). If you hit all 3 survivors, it's 2 minutes of lost time on gens. I know that hitting 3 people is super rare (but actually not so much when defending last 3gen). But even 40s is so damn strong. Like literally people complain on this forum how PTS is absolutely unfair when it saves 6 seconds AT MOST when 2 people are doing single gen. And 40 seconds is fine balanced perk?
-
@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290223#Comment_3290223
-Leave all the free info, or remove it all.
So remove the auras of downed surviovrs for other survivors. Remove the aura of survivors on a hook for everyone. Remove the hud that shows who is hurt. Remove the hud that shows how many times each survivor has been hooked from survivors. Remove the indicator that shows how many generators are finished. Remove the indicators that show where the doors are for a few seconds. Remove the killer's terror radius.
Are we done being unreasonable?
Remove info perks, remove generator auras, remove gate auras, remove all steps being so damn loud, remove crows appearing on survivors doing nothing and by doing so change the game to pure hide & seek. As I said before. I don't want the game to change. Right now it's about chases and outplays in them.
You want to remove integral part of it, but just for 1 side and you are offended if I make SAME proposition for the other side. It's you that are supporting unreasonable request. I want the game to stay as is right now
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289868#Comment_3289868
I mean you can get a 4 man out against most killers with bodyblocking and if the survivor is not hooked on the opposite side of the map... But this depends on the skill of the players, the killer and the map rng... Whereas the hatch play is basically pure rng...
It is not necessarily about being easy but rather if it requires skill to pull off. The further the game progresses the stronger the killer becomes (due to the map becoming barren and the area he needs to patrol getting smaller, so given that concept of the game it is kind of fine that getting the fourth guy out from getting camped requires more skill from the survivors than from the killer... But that also somewhat contradicts that the hatch situation is in favor of the survivor again... Even when you are tunneling someone out in the most blatant way at least you need to use your skill to chase them down, I think it is really boring to do... But when you are both looking for the hatch it is just rng heavy...
I can agree with that. I would also like it more if the endgame was less RNG based and more skill based. Hatch and gate spawns can guarantee 1 side win with basically nothing the other side can do (works for both sides).
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289884#Comment_3289884
I would not assume that, I looked at it for a few seconds and it already become unpleasant... Why introduce a mechanic that makes it annoying to use the killers power...
some people already used to complain about why should they be forced to look down after blinks... I think you would understand why. Anyway as I said before - I would go for changing stuff on existing nurse instead of redesigning her into different killer
-
@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286768#Comment_3286768
Just use those other things then, which is more than enough. Not just abuse the killer having a mole's fov, which was a nonsensical design decision.
So you are ok with the antislugging PTB we had back then? "Just don't slug and use those other things then". What other things? There are very few things already. The game is designed around killer's worse visibility range - that's why he is in 1st person mode instead of 3rd person. Why do you think your camera is locked during animations? So that killer immediately sees everything around him all the time?
-
@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/357196/eruption-and-cob-are-overtuned
Eruption and CoB are weak relatively speaking compared to the overall effects of:
Medkits/toolboxes (their appropriate addons), Prove Thyself, Hyperfocus and Boons.
It's probably an unpopular opinion but medkits should probably heal at self care speed and the better ones just have more charges. Remove all instances of "healing faster". I watched an hour or so of Otz's stream today and one thing was very clear. He got absolutely stomped almost every game there were 3 or 4 medkits with boons.
DBD probably needs some kind of base mechanic where every time you heal the next time will take 25% longer than last time.
Boons are a complete joke in comparison with Hex Totems. At this point the killer should be able to destroy bones by interacting with them (same as stomping on a boon). Alternatively survivors should need a special perk to destroy hex totems - because that's what killers have to put up with. The only fair solution is that both sides can interact and destroy the other side's totem perk with a single interaction.
Since killers have Undying let survivors have a perk called Rekindle or something that lets them use their boon one more time after it has been destroyed (but the next time will cause its destruction forever).
Otz made a video on this but overall Toolboxes and perks to speed up gens need some kind of limit. Realistically Toolboxes should probably become "Sabotage only". It's really unthinkable that Hyperfocus is allowed to work with toolboxes for extra checks when Medkits do not work with autodidact for the exact same reason.
Gens are not taking surviovrs 90 seconds on average to finish. It's very common to lose one generator in about 50 seconds every game. That will only be fair if we make a new killer generic addon where the second survivor immediately loses one hook state upon being hooked for the firs time. Since nobody wants that we need to have generator reform to limit how many things we can stack to rush toolboxes.
Sure. Let's make killer players that bring mediocre stuff be better then full tryhard survivor squad with best things. Makes you wonder what would happen if say Otz decided to bring MDR+amulet spirits, C33+alch ring blight, double range starstruck nurse, etc. The game needs to be killer sided even if said killer does not bring anything and survivor brings best things because why not make Q times take 30 minutes even if we really make permanent survivor incentives?
-
@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289688#Comment_3289688
A single call out from a duo can save 20-40 seconds. You can do that 3-4 times per game and get extra time without needing a perk. That breaks the game.
Everyone who is not in "mid/low" ranks is hating the game because the survivors bring stupidly strong items and rush the gens in ~4 minutes. The killer is forced to hook the first person three times or they lose. Bronx just made a video saying nearly exactly that. Otz said the same thing today on his stream.
The red light doesn't really help the average players and it completely breaks the game for the good players.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289029#Comment_3289029
Scratch marks are there to encourage the killer to chase off after someone in the distance. Barbeque was added to the game so that killers could see the aura of someone far away from the hook so they would not camp people on the hook.
Scratch marks are a punishment for running and a reward for walking. The whole "mind game" nonsense was the developer cop out because most of the tiles they designed in the game are not fair for the majority of the killer roster. Many of the better tournaments take place on three or four maps because almost the rest are one sided. Scratch mark removal would be more akin with the killer's terror radius removal.
scratch marks are there so that killer does not loose survivor in chases. If removing the red light should be there because it provides free info for looping, scratchmarks should be removed because they provide free info for following the survivor. Leave all the free info, or remove it all. And let killers follow only by sound and guessing correctly. Same way as survivors will only listen to sound and guess correctly in chases. Same idea. It will make the game more frustrating for both sides, because it will be more about guessing then acting on information, but the frustration will be equal for both sides
-
buff eruption, OC and CoB
-
@Xord said:
Eruption is the "weakest" of the current strong meta slowdown perks.
Yes, its effect is strong, but it's not uncounterable, and it's absolutely hell to setup for the killer.
it's weakest depending on if you play against SWF or solo. As solo you have exactly 0 information. All you can do as solo player is hope that it does not get triggered on you. If it does, you are in problem. If you play in decent SWF, you will probably get a warning second or two before someone goes down making the perk 9s extra regression. This disparity is a problem. I partly stopped playing solo because of this perk (sure there are many more reasons, but this perk is one of them).
-
@Batusalen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289922#Comment_3289922
And that is precisely the problem, even when the killer go for a chase, success or not and more so if he commits to it, he is losing. In fact and as I said, he is losing whenever he commit to the chase or if he decide to camp the gens, as someone would just tap the gen and undo the kicking the moment he just turn around.
And you are making a lot of assumptions here. There is 7 generators at the start of the game, because one or two were incapacitated won't take the game hostage, just force survivors to not gangbang one generator until is done and have to move to the next or waste time by waiting close to the one you just broke down (in fact, would help with the 3 gen "hostage" situation as the killer would have the opportunity to not care about the gens for a short time and go for the chasing instead of only having the safe and good option of patrolling them). And my other suggestion, the start-up time, technically would make repair times longer as you say with the added benefit of preventing the "tap and hide", also giving killers the possibility to commit even more to chasing survivors and not having to drop it after 20 seconds because "sure they are repairing that almost done gen again" and having to go kicking it for the 5º time to gain a couple of seconds more.
So what I want is precisely to be able to commit to survivors chases and not having to scare them off the same gens every 5 seconds, so I don't fully understand what is your complain here.
BTW, "you want killers to win if they are good enough to eventually win" lol yeah, I want killers good enough to win win and not lose because survivors abuse game mechanics... crazy, I know.
No I said you want win or possibility to take the game hostage but never loose. That is problem. You are problem as you want such an interactions.
Also in my killer games (which is something that I do much more now than survivor, because survivor now got crazy tryhard stressful to actually have a chance to open a gate every 3rd game at best) I have no problem commiting to chase and wining the game if I chase correctly. To be frank it's quite easy from 6.1 onwards. And to fully clarify - now I am getting survivors which play survivor better then I do - even if I have 1/5th of my survivor hours on killers (and play multiple killers). And I still win more then I loose - even though I don't camp or tunnel. Even if I can't use every subtle mechanics of the game (like noticing all the crows that flew back and chasing accordingly). Killers are dead easy right now. Because holding 3gen (not indefinitely, but long enough to hook someone multiple times) is so easy. But then again I understand that I will not win every game with 7 unrepaired gens. I don't mind that in first chase there's a very good possibility 1 gen will pop. I know that the game will get much slower when 1 person will be in chase, 1 would be slugged or healing, 1 would be hooked and only 1 would be on a generator. And I know that if my chase takes 2 minutes to down a survivor, then I am loosing and it's normal for survivors to actually earn that win. But it's rare that they are able to do something with all the killer buffs developers are silently doing
-
@Batusalen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289857#Comment_3289857
As @Simfeliz said you would only be wasting time, get grounded to that one generator and the moment you start chasing one of the survivors they will only keep fixing it or just tap to stop regression and go elsewhere,and before you know it 2-3 gens done or almost done. In fact, when I started playing I didn't even notice kicking the gen removed progress until I saw it was something they added in the last patch.
So you want to camp your gens, not commit to chases and when all the gens are regressed you want to be able to then start the chase. If that doesn't work, you would just return and regress all gens again.
Basically you want killers to win if they are good enough to eventually win or at least to never loose, because they could hold the game hostage.
This is killer holding the game hostage. Very unhealthy for the game. It's the same thing as survivors hiding in obscure parts of map not working on generator. Bad for a game.
Survivors should be able to always progress gens, but it should take long enough for killer to be able to go for chases and if he succeeds at them, he will win (and if he fails those chases, he should loose instead of holding it forever).
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
Old Overcharge
You are fuelled by your hate for progress.
Performing the Damage Generator Action on a generators applies Overcharge:
The next interacting with that Generator is faced with a difficult Skill.
Failing the Skill Check results in an immediate Progression loss of 3/4/5 %.
Succeeding the Skill Check grants no bonus Progression, but prevents the Generator from exploding.
After Overcharge is applied to a Generator, the following effect applies:
Increases the Regression speed from 75 % to 200 % over the next 30 seconds.
New Overcharge
You are fulled by your hate for progress.
performing the damage Generator Action on a generator applies overcharge:
Whenever a generator is not being repaired by a Survivor, it will immediately and automatically regress its Repair progress at 100% of the normal Regression speed for 45/60/75 seconds.
Old Call of Brine
Your psychic abilities influence technology in devastating ways.
After damaging a generator, Call of Brine activates for 60 seconds.
The Generator regresses at 150/175/200 % of the normal Regression speed and its aura is revealed to you.
Each time a Survivor completes a Good Skill on a Generator affected by Call of Brine, you receive a Loud Noise Notification.
New Call of Brine
Your psychic abilities influence technology in devastating ways.
After damaging a generator, If generator regression is uninterrupted for 60 seconds, the following effect is activated.
The generator loses 35%/40%/45% of its total progress.
Blocked generator pause the timer.
--
New Surveillance:
Unlocks potential in your Aura-reading ability.
The Auras auras of regressing generators are highlighted in white.
If the Regression progress is interrupted on a Generator, its Aura will be highlighted in yellow for next 30/45/60 seconds. Each time a survivor completes a skill-check on a generator, The killer receives a Loud Noise Notification.
Surveillance increases the audible range of Survivors' Generator-repairing noises by 8 metres.
"Are you gonna behave?" — Amanda Young
--
New Unnerving Presence
Your presence alone instills great fear.
Survivors repairing generator or healing within your Terror Radius suffer from the following effects:
All skill-checks become difficult skill-checks. Succeeding the skill-check does not grant extra progression.
Increases the Trigger odds of Skillcheck by 10 %.
Decreases the Success zone of Skill Checks by 40/50/60 %.
"Its presence befalls us."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-XYO67rZDg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv3I9hHLblE&t=306s
One of the most game-breaking problems for survivor in current iteration of dbd is 3 generator situations. With addition of Overcharge and Call of brine, For the first time in dbd's history, Kicking generators is rewarding for the killer when equipping these perks.
The problem with generator kicking in normal gameplay is that generator regress too slowly to be rewarding for game tempo of the game. A killer that hooks a survivor often moves at 4.6 m/s where the killer spends a great deal of time to walk generators and kick them. In a 4vs1 asymmetrical game such as dead by daylight, the killer can spend up to 20 seconds to walk to generators. 20 seconds of walking time to generators as a killer amounts to 20% progression among two other survivors working on different generators. Collectively, this is net 40% progression of generator progress for kicking generators assuming that one survivor is hooked, 1 survivor is pressure off a generator and the other 2 survivor work on separate generator while a killer walks away from the hook to apply generator pressure.
A killer kicking a generator will regress at generator at 0.25 c/s per second. In order to regress 40% of a generator for a single generator kick. The killer must regress 36 seconds of a generator. At a 400% regression rate, the killer would take 144 seconds to regress 36 seconds of a generator. 144 seconds amount to roughly 2 minutes and 24 seconds. This is very long amount of time in dbd. For this reason, kicking generators as killer is often not advised. There is large mismatch in the amount of time the killer spends to kick generators compare to the reward for kicking a generator when the entire survivor team is efficient at the objective.
In normal dbd gameplay loop between hooking survivors and kicking generators, Overcharge and Call of brine are balanced perks because survivors are always able to progress generators faster then these perks are able to regress them. The distance between each generator allows survivors to be in multiple places at once and outwit the killer in positioning to progress the objective.
A 3 generator gameplay was often labelled by survivors as taking the game hostage by the killer. 1 hour matches where the killer is holding the game hostage by using these consistent regression perks in specific maps is borderline game-breaking.
Explanation of perk changes:
As a result, I am proposing a rework that re-purposes Overcharge and Call of brine.into different perks that succeeding in fulfill each of the perk's goals. Overcharge's difficult skill-check was designed to punish generator tapping, however the effectiveness of punishing generator tapping is ineffective as seasoned player are able to consistently hit the skill-check making the perk ineffective at doing its job. My version replaces the perk by making the perk automatically regress generators for 75 seconds if a survivor generator taps a regressing generator. The perk function similarly to current hex:ruin. This effect will disable the effectiveness of gen-tapping kicked generators mid-chase by survivors.
Call of brine is designed to be a perk that regresses a large amount of generator progression should survivor leave the generator unchecked. At current value, over 60 seconds, a generator an additional 15% when applied by this generator kick perk and 15% of regular regression will be applied amounting a total of 30% regression over 60 seconds. Suppose a generator is 80%, this perk will only regress generator to 50%. This does not punish the survivor nearly enough for leaving a generator unchecked but the perk is currently being used offensively in 3 gen situations. My iteration of the perk increases the reward by 3x amount in regression but reduces the ability for the perk to be used offensively in 3 gen situations.
The effects tracking effects of Call of brine has been moved to Surveillance, A perk designed to keep track of survivors that touch regressing generators. The harder skill-checks provided by overcharge has been moved over to Unnerving Presence where the purpose of this perk is to provide more difficult skill-checks when a survivor is working in the killer's terror radius. Both of these perk are not popular perks with a very bad play-rate selection. According to Nightlight, Surveillance has <1.25% usage and Unnerving presence ranges between less then 1-2%. This is good opportunity to improve lesser used perks into being more effective at their job.
You will not believe me, but I was thinking of the same thing just yesterday. I just did not find fortitude to write my topic about it. Also my solution would be a little different. From my POW, any single gen regression perk is not too strong. The "fun" begins, if you pair it with other regression perks. Also as you stated, kicking gens without any perk usually makes no sense.
So what if we boosted base gen regression by say 0.333c/s and nerfed all regression perks so, that if you used just 1 gen kicking perk (no matter if OC, CoB or any other regression perk), that your overall resulting regression would be just tiny bit better.
As a side product stacking multiple regressions would be less beneficial, but kicking gens without any perk more rewarding. What this means is, that gen regression perks would not be used so often and would no longer be so oppresive and it would open up possibility to take also chase perks or info perks or actual slowdown perks instead of just regression perks (like pentimento or deadlock).
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/357332/changes-to-nurses-power
As someone said beforethe blurry thing is just annoying as hell, and people already do not like that clown bottles have that effect on survivors, so I don't think adding it for a killer is a good idea either...
Clown bottles are different. They stretch and rotate screen too. I can fully understand why people get dizzy. Making the screen blurry would be like watching film and camera without mooving shows you specific part of scene (by blurrying everything else). But in this case, not just part of your screen would be blurred. I am not sure, but I presume such an effect would actually not make anyone dizzy.
Anyway, I don't know if such an effect would be good for game. I think spirit has probably better animation for it (there's a functional difference as spirit sees environment in full detail, but that could be ok).
Overall I think nurse does not need to be redesigned like OP suggested. All she needs is 2nd blink be special attack + nerf addons (specifically range and recharge)
-
Hooks are the only problematic part around the map for killers. Everything else is killer sided about it.
So if you want to fix hooks, then whole map needs to be fixed - by say at least adding 1 single new pallet at every hallway, but ideally making the map overall larger
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289242#Comment_3289242
I really don't like slugging for the 4k but if you make it like that then some adepts would be really annoying and the hatch play would be even more rng... And ofc it would need to work with only 2 suevs left because otherwise you can get 4 people out with 5 Gens against legion... Just get all into mending, use a hatch offering 3 go down near it due to mending and the last standing activates hatch open and ez game.
In the normal game 15 second gate time is fine, but in the last man standing situation I don't like it because this is already survivor aided and that would make waiting at an exit gate for the hatch to get kicked even easier...
Agree on the first point (which could/should suffice as full solution. Do the hatch at strictly 2 players where 1 is downed).
But if first point is not enough, then about the second thing - I just want to have same percentage between last camped person vs last escaping person. How can one be too easy and not get the result of the other one that is ok and not free? I see discrepancy. If 15s as specific number is too much in your opinion, I can acknowledge that and ask for different number. But if it's systematic and killer just deserves 1k "no matter what" and survivor should instead have a roll of dice, then this does not look fair to me. Make the chances the same. So make last escaping a little easier or securing last kill a little harder. Overall I want fair balanced game results between different teams.
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289200#Comment_3289200
Not necessarily that but you can also count the tunneling one survivor out immmediatly in that category...
I would say it cancels it out so some degree, but not entirely, and that's why in the end it should be above 50%... Having it somewhat in the middle between 2 and 3 K on average... Also when you are tunneling someone out or camp one guy during endgame at least you are chasing someone and the person can try to avoid getting downed... Unless ofc they are in a complete dead zone... Getting out with hatch or gate as last survivor has far more RNG I think...
If hatch and the tunneling endgame camping one person scenarios would be removed entirely we could look at those cleaned numbers and the evaluate on what we currently are and what has to be done... But as it is now I think 55-60% is quite balanced, considering what type of game we have here.
so if it does not cancel out, then there's a place for a survivor buff in this specific aspect. The easiest one would be to make opening gates take less time (say 15s). What I would actually like to see is spawning (opened) hatch when last survivor is standing (meaning slugging for 4K is no longer an option).
Would you say that under these conditions 50% would be fair? (if we keep the current state of game)
But sure - changing the endgame to be more skill based instead of luck based would feel better. So long as it's overall balanced toward 50% killrate as a target
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289117#Comment_3289117
I didn't necessarily say that there are good reasons for it to be easy, but more you would need to change a lot about the game for it to not be easy...
As for the canceling it out getting the hatch or gate as the last survivor is fairly easy depending on the map maybe even free... If you are on the game and just wait at one gate for the killer to kick the hatch you are safely out most of times, if the killer does not have special mobility. There are some maps where this works really consistently. The same thing apply when the gates are really far apart and cannot be seen from some point in the middle of the map, this also makes it fairly easy to get out, maybe if you want to be safe just 20% it and then after the killer left again finish it... If the situation does not favor you in that way you still have almost the same chance as the killer to find the hact, if he hits you while looking for it even better, because of the speed boost you can cover more of the map, the best thing in these cases is mostly to just follow the survivor and close hact in front of their nose.
Overall the situation favors the survivor by a whole lot (unless you are a killer with really high mobility, and even then depending on map size and other factor you still might be at a disadvantage.
so you agree that camping single survivor endgame cancels out with escaping as last via hatch or gate. Cool. So now that that's out of the way... Why should 60% kill rate be fair?
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289082#Comment_3289082
So what, it does not seem like it is possible to make it better than those 1-2%...so what does the goal matter if they cannot reach it... The debs target is 10% more because of reasons specifically of this game... Because 1k is rather easy to get... If you tunnel someone out you will almost guaranteed have 1 K... I don't know how to avoid this if you don't want to share hook states between all survivors.
Ok I will repeat myself. If 1k is easy and there are good reasons for it, then 1e should be just as easy (and for the same reasons). Canceling both "easy" effects out.
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289024#Comment_3289024
Even in really balanced games 1-2% is normal, since dbd is asymmetrical even 5-10% could be somewhat reasonable.
1-2% is normal, but NOT goal. The problem is, that devs TARGET 60%
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288610#Comment_3288610
I mean you have a comp Nurse against a comp squad and the survivors are limiting their item and perk choices, therefore I don't really get what you are trying to tell me? The only thing I can read out of such streaks is enormous player skill and matchmaking being unable to give them appropriate opponents of similar skill most of the time?
In comp both sides are limited. Like nurse can't bring starstruck and such. Comp is specifically tailored to be a different game altogether. Also there's a huge difference between soloQ (which is one of the largest part of players) and comp players. Are you really willing to throw this player base overboard and just make them autoloose or DC?
I think ideally all parts of the game should be balanced so that every killer/survivor/etc have fair chance to play (sure there can be a few examples with simple killers for learning the game).
-
That would explain why so many survivors bring boil over. I never understood the usage (I am PC). I see it every like 3rd game against me and yet I can remember 1 instance where it saved survivor (hook sabotage into me getting stuck on a hook before I could hook) in like maybe 100 games I remember.
Both platforms should have same conditions.
-
Red light for scratchmarks. Same reasoning. Same stuff applies. Why should killer get training wheels and free info? Oh no. Scratches should stay, because they provide free info to killer side... Because 60% kill rate is just not enough for some entitled killers. Because my side deserves 4K every game...
No red light should stay. It provides skill interactions on both sides. I would much rather have interesting interactions to do over flipping a coin. Go play windows mines if you want to be able to win every game. Go play rock paper scissors if you want the outcome of the game be random.
-
@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289017#Comment_3289017
I guess we just have diffrent definition of a power role then. Imo killers should have more than 50% but lower than 60% killrate. That just makes sense to me. (Also can you stop with "free wins"? I didn't say anywhere I want either side to have free wins, I'm just breaking down the statistic you used with logic)
Anything about 50% kill rate IS FREE WIN. Win by survivor is defined if he escapes. For killer it's if they kill or not (killer playing 4 matches at the same time during 1 game). It's like playing in chess but one (enemy) side has only 1 horse and you saying that's fine, because I should have advantage because "I said so" or because magic word "power role" (what does that exactly mean? Why should it magically mean you get more wins just by choosing "this team"?).
The reason why I don't care about 1 or 2% difference is, that every game that is not symmetrical is hard to perfectly balance. And it's interesting when 2 sides do different things to actually win over the other. For this reason low percentage advantage for the other side is acceptable in the name of making the game more interesting. But the idealistic goal should be (and now I go 100% fully generally for every game) - each side having equal chance to win the game over every other side (so 33.3333...% if there are 3 teams and so on).
-
@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289008#Comment_3289008
Because they're the power role. (The killer in this instance)
But they already are. Even if it's single player, he should be able on average wipe out 2 players from the game. What's that if not power role? But you want to go even beyond that. You want them to have free wins (more then 50% of enemy team eliminated by SINGLE player).
@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289005#Comment_3289005
Yeah that's the point which is why there needs to be a mechanic to give the last one a chance to escape but make it less rng.
I can agree with that. If you give good suggestion, I would 100% support you. For both sides (but sure survivor side is MUCH MUCH more about RNG then killer's side - IMO killer side is OK the way it is right now, but sure enough there could always be improvements).
-
@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288993#Comment_3288993
You're misunderstanding me.
This is an asymmetrical game. So by logic, the side with less characters should be as powerful or more powerful than the team that has more players in it.
Nowhere did I say that any side should get a free win??
But you talked about percentages and being fair that killers get more then 2 kills on average. So I will ask again. If 2K/2E is middle ground and exact tie. Why should one side (any side for that matter) get more then that (on average)?
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288998#Comment_3288998
I think both (securing 1k most of the time) as well as an rng mechanic that gives you a somewhat high chance to escape as the last person (the hatch and if closed gates) are stupid mechanics if we want this to be more balanced... Getting 1k should require player skill and the same goes for escaping as the last person alive.
In theory you are right, but in practice I disagree. If one side played that much better, it would make sense for them to win fully - from this POW I agree that 1K and 1E should not be so "free" is they are now.
However suppose you are in loosing match (does not matter what side). You see you are weaker then the other side and the chance for you to win is very low at this point. Why should you be even trying at this point? What motivates you to not go AFK at this point (or in worse case for survivor to hide indefinitely stalling the game as much as possible)? Yes killer having endgame camping to secure a kill and survivor having chance at hatch are required so that the other side keeps playing the game.
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288995#Comment_3288995
The hatch already is that kind of counter measure, because the survivor can still get out even if the killer closes the hatch... That kind of evens it out... I think they also said that 0ks are really rare, 1ks are similarly often to 3 KS 4 KS are happening more often than 0ks but not that much more often and 2ks are the most.
So it means killer being able to secure 1K does NOT change percentages then, because 1E counters it. Means that there's imbalance in main game that should be evened out (IMO mainly in soloQ being so absolutely horrible right now).