Gandor
Gandor
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288993#Comment_3288993
You cannot compare LOL or other symmetrical games with DBD... Btw. In Dota for example either dire or radiant has a 1-2% higher win rate overall... Sometimes lower... And if we take CSGO or Starcraft 2 maps are either favored for T or CT or for the different races.. So even there are differences.
ok. I will accept 1 or 2% difference. That's fine. 10%+ difference is not fine.
Also win/loose is symmetrical in DBD. You either kill/survive or you don't. If this part was also asymmetrical (you could both escape and get killed somehow - which is stupid by itself of course), then we can talk about asymmetrical win percentages (they should overlap somehow so that both sides have same overall chance to win).
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288980#Comment_3288980
Killer can most of the time secure 1 K, which is why they want the kill rate be above 50 %, because the 1ks would push the average down.
Ok then add a mechanics that survivors can get 1 free escape every match. Make hatch play easier for survivor. Make it so that last survivor will most likely escape (even if killer decides to slug) to balance out killer being able to secure 1K most of the time
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@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286330#Comment_3286330
Aren't roles then "technically" balanced then? If we go by %.
50% would mean that every game, 2 survivors will die.
60% means that every game 2 survivors will die and maybe a 3rd one. Which gives the power role (killers) the advantage they should have.
why? Why in multiplayer game one team should win even if they don't earn it? Would you be OK in any other game if you lost because you are on specific team? Say in LoL you probably loose because you are blue team?
Sure the game is asymmetrical and that's fine. It means one side does different thing than the other side. It should by no means mean that one side should be handed win over the other side for free. Also why do you thing it's killers that deserve free wins instead of survivors (I think no side should get free wins BTW)?
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288770#Comment_3288770
If that's the case why would they even add distressing, thrill of the hunt, beast of prey, prove thyself, and NOLB? If they didn't want this then I'm not sure why they added them in the first place but removing them only limits perk options for non-serious players
Plus, no mither is one too that is literally supposed to make it harder, why not just have that same idea for these killer perks too but with a BP bonus in exchange?
Those perks you mentioned do not multiply your BP gains. All they do is earn BP in their specific category quicker. And I don't know the reasoning behind it or why one is ok and the other one is not.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287427#Comment_3287427
It was nerfed, why would you think it would be buffed?
From gameplay's perspective it wasn't touched. BP's does not make perk stronger (and devs explicitly said they don't want people to pick perks for BP bonuses). It's fully possible devs will decide to buff it (but I doubt it, because the perk still has higher usage then other perks)
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287834#Comment_3287834
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287910#Comment_3287910
Let me ask you, What do you think the ratio of the 3 types of campers are?
Obviously there is no data to go off of here, and it would differ based on high vs mid/low MMR. I would say this is a fair breakdown, but I would love to hear if you think I am way off base.
Mid /low High
Type 1 15% 15%
Type 2 20% 50%
Type 3 65% 35%
Speaking directly on the type 2's I find it interesting you both suggest that giving them info would make them potentially camp more. I really dont understand how you can have that assumption, they are already camping most of the time because its the most effective thing to do.
If thats the case and they get no info because everyone is close and they were gonna camp anyways then no change. If they get info that everyone is too far away and theres no point in leaving, again no change because they were gonna camp anyways. The 3rd option is they get info that they can act on and lets say they do half the time because of the potential for an advantage.
Obviously the only thing i can do to be fair is assume all 3 of these outcomes have the same chance of happening, so what this boils down to is essentially in type 2's you may be able to eliminate half of 1/3rd of camping scenarios or about 16%.
I think it would actually be higher because i think that the 3rd option has probably a 50% of happening instead of all 3 being equal which would change that 16% to 25%.
So effectively that boils down to getting rid of 8% of camping at high MMR and like 4%ish at mid/low based on the half of 1/3rd statistic.
As to the type 3's because its not about the effectiveness of camping and instead about a lack of options, if you give them that info 50% of them easy are going to chase it.
There is a fun psychological experiment you can do to test this theory, got to a place with a lot of people, I like a mall food court, randomly shout out "OMG look over there!", more than half of them are going to look, once they see nothing is there, they will think your nuts afterwords, but they will look, these are your type 3 people.
So lets even drop that lower lets say conservatively instead of 50% we put that at 33%, thats a 21% drop at mid/low and another 11% at high MMR.
So in total that makes a 25% total drop in camping at mid/low MMR and a 19% drop in high MMR.
As to balancing it strength wise there are things you can do. I've already suggested a scream bubble instead of an actual aura read, you could also disable it once certain conditions are met, like once a survivor dies it could disable like ruin, promoting more of a 12 hook game, you could also disable it once a certain number of gens are done say 3 gens, once you only have to patrol 4 gens you dont really need it anymore. You could even disable it once your MMR reaches a certain point, which would keep it out of the hands of the stronger killers, or have certain really strong add ons disable it like speed/recharge nurse or alc ring blight or whatever people at high MMR complain about.
It will also have other beneficial effects like slugging may go down as they get more value from hooks, since people will start trying to use lockers to dodge it, Iron maiden would actually have a use outside trickster and huntress ( I guess you could make a case for doctor, artist, and dredge)
Now I'm sure you both have your own ideas on ways to reduce camping as an alternative I would very much be interested in hearing them.
Well my main point is, that I don't know. I think a lot of stuff you say makes sense. The problem is, that you want to see the positive side only.
What I see is killer, that took 4 slowdown perks instead of 3 + info perk. What I see is killer that does not go proxy camping, but facecamps, because he read the situation as he can facecamp now. What I see is killer readjusting his camping spot, because he will know the side from which survivors come.
Overall - I don't know if your suggestion will help with camping or make it worse. But I am pretty sure it will make the game that much harder against killers that are able to process big picture. Which once again would make the game that much harder against solo.
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@SeannyD115 said:
What if dark theory had a secondary effect within it's range besides the 2% movement speed like 5% vault speed.
I think that would make the perk a little better
No it wouldn't. Fast vault takes 0.5s (you don't target mid vaults, because they take 0.9s which is way too long + you can get hit even right after it finishes, because you are touching window). Making it 5% quicker would be 0.475s. those 2.5ms is way less then any kind of desynch or anything.
In my eyes there's no helping to dark theory. The effect is too strong for devs to be willing to play with it. And as they are (rightfully) cautious with it, the perk will never be worth it. Just forget it exists.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288077#Comment_3288077
When they published their stats it was at around 60% and they said it is now where they wanted it to be if I remember correctly.
Yes. That's what I remember and saw here in this forum in news section. But that guy talked about 65%. That's very different from 60%
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@InvadeGames said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287988#Comment_3287988
kill rates are around where behavior wants them, and in fact are aiming to get the kill rate a bit higher and thus survivor escape rate down a bit.
So i dont think i agree about needing a helping hand tho yea an argument could be made about soloq
Where did they mentioned that? Last time I heared they targeted kill rate to 60% which is a few months back
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@Crowman said:
People saying that nurse completely ignores pallets and vaults are overstating her power.
You can still pallet stun a nurse who is blinking at you (hard, but possible) and she can't attack through pallets or windows if she blinks on the wrong side of them. Pallets and windows aren't useless against her, but you do have to be much smarter how to play around them.
While technically true, it's quite rare that these do anything - at least against good nurse. And from patch 5.5 you are better of making nurse miss her blink (by e.g. prethrow) then stunning her - because stun will actually cancel her fatigue allowing her to blink at you even quicker.
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@InvadeGames said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287814#Comment_3287814
ok, so if i am in the average mmr which i most definitely am, then you are complainign about something that occurs in high mmr, which is not where the majority of players are and not what the game is balanced around. Nurse wasnt invented when the devs expected people to play a party game competitively.
If mid/average MMR was target for buff/nerfs, survivors would require major helping hand at this moment. SoloQ is super hard on every MMR level and SWF in mid MMR can't communicate effectively (A: "where are you?", B: "Next to a rock") - by this alone it should be clear survivors will be underperforming. And then there's also this other thing - a lot of perks that do almost nothing in high MMR are oppressive here (like overcharge with difficult to hit skillcheck).
But it's true, that in this MMR range nurse even with startstruck and range addons is not a game breaking problem. Auras like basekit BBQ would not be a problem. Still - game balance IS a problem.
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@the_honey_badger said:
So what you're trying to tell me is a huntress using aura reading perks is more problematic than a nurse with 4 slow downs?
I'm sorry but I'm so happy the majority of people have 0 power over this games balance changes.
godlike nurse with 4 aura reading perks is stronger then godlike nurse with 4 slowdowns.
It all depends what kind of killer you play against. For any doctor, aura reading perks are least useful stuff compared to any other category. For nurse or huntress (on at least semi-open map) - well it's the other way around.
But I will agree, that most of the time slowdown perks are much stronger then info perks
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@Loldino said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/357194/basic-fov-is-bad-shadowborn-base-kit-pleaseeee
Given what happened last time perks git base kit I'd imagine killers get 2% more FOV while survivors get basekit Dead hard
sure. Such a minor buff. No wonder killers got 61% kill rate from 49% and soloQ is almost unplayable. You are not biased at all. /s
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As for topic - NO. Once again. It's pure buff for killers and not just QOL. Lots of techs rely on killer not seeing 120 degrees.
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Sounds nice for soloQ. Would be ok item for SWF or when devs finally implement action indicators and stuff like that
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287679#Comment_3287679
Your missing the point there is no agreement and thise things aren't against the rules.
As to the why's you ask, there are essentially 3 types of campers.
1. People who camp to be douches, can't do anything about these.
2. People who camp because its the most effective thing to do, these ones are 50/50.
3. People who camp because they dont have a better option, these ones would be the most changed by having more info.
Type number 1, they will camp no matter what they dont care about winning all they care about is the kill, you wont change them so lets just ignore them.
Lets look at type 2, this player is all about the win, the meta they will do what is most effective at all times. With a basekit BBQ they would use that info strategically and depending what they see, they may see strategic value in not camping and having a place to apply guaranteed pressure, especially if they think they can secure a chase and possibly a down/hook somewhere else before the unhook can happen.
Now for type 3, these players get that hook and they proxy camp the area, not to be a douche, not because its effective, but because while they dont where anyone is, they know someone is going to come to that hook, these players would often much rather be chasing someone but not knowing where to go they lie in wait for prey to come to them.
These players dont care about whats effective they just don't wanna waste their time going halfway across the map looking for people, finding nothing and then going back to the hook after the unhook happens. These players with the knowledge of where someone is, will gladly go find and chase that person, and with that they arent camping and tunnelling.
You will never get rid of camping and tunneling completely, you can make all the rules and punishments you want but at the end of the day human beings are flawed. The state of California averages almost 3000 car thefts every day, just as one example of how effective punishment can be, or if you prefer just take a look at how effective the dc penalty is at preventing dc's.
people from group 2, may well camp more if they a, don't see anyone (meaning they know everyone is close instead of on a gen) b, see that they will not make it to that gen because multiple survivors are already on it and it's far c, see nobody is working on gens. It's hard to tell if BBQ basekit will make them camp less or more. I would guess it will overall be a bit less, but I am far from sure of it.
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@InvadeGames said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287588#Comment_3287588
a killer with a 5% pick rate and mostly relegated to high mmr where most people arent are. while sure there is something to talk about there, i dont think its valid to argue against something that MIGHT impact 5% of your games, when the 5% should just be addressed accordingly as the community has whined about for years.
it not MIGHT. It WILL. Every aura reading perk will is super strong on high mobility killer LIKE nurse (but not limited to).
@MiraxGames said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287448#Comment_3287448
Survivors keep getting perks as base kit and I highly doubt the Burrowed Time is gonna be the last perk that becomes basekit. If the devs are starting to add more base kits perks I think its only fair Killers gets some too or at least one. I think the weaker killers need the buff and for strong killers, yes its a bit of a buff but its just information its not like its gonna make that much of a different, if anything it may make it easier for survivors to go for saves if the stronger killers are not hanging around hook area.
Killers got brutal strength, STBFL, thanatophobia. Survivors got what? BT? Killers are actually the once getting more basekit perks
@InvadeGames said:
theres like 30 killers in the game and every survivor just goes "but nurse" any time a killer buff or change is made or suggested.
i see nurse like once in 50 plus games and its literally been like 100 games since ive seen a blight.
I think people use nurse and blight as an excuse to fight against killer changes they dont like.
That only means you are low MMR. When I play survivor, I see them every like 7th game. They are very common. Less then it used to be (thanks to wesker - who is another killer that highly benefits from basekit bbq), but still often.
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@Remedicist said:
Most people wouldn't just increase FOV because they can apparently see the survivors on screen more often. In fact, this doesn't even make sense because if you have more objects that you can see on screen, they will appear less clear, especially for farther objects. This is due to the fish-eye effect and it may make a killer miss a distant visual cue or get hit by a pallet that they think they aren't in range of. Of course, increasing FOV also makes a killer more susceptible to flashlight blinds. If you use Shadowborn, you will experience all of this.
Sure, it may help a miniscule amount in chases for the one time a player tries to hide under your character when you vault a window, but that's really it. If a survivor hides well, chances are that an increased FOV won't change that because seeing more on screen won't make you more likely to see a character hiding in a bush or behind a wall. In fact, due to decreased clarity from objects looking more distant, you might even miss it more often.
People simply want an FOV slider so they can tune it to their liking for what feels better for them in terms of motion comfort and motion sickness. If increasing FOV were really that game-changing for killers, you would see it used way more often. Instead, you rarely ever see it used except for those that really need it to play the game. Therefore, I think an FOV slider should be an accessibility option.
I know people do use shadowborn (specifically I know person that uses it on blight) even if motion sickness has 0 things with it. It very much helps with all the dash-type killers quickly spot survivor that is close-by.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286768#Comment_3286768
The Killer having higher FOV and not getting motion sick, doesn't affect your ability to pallet loop the Killer.
Killer being prohibited to kick gens does not prohibit him from chasing survivor.
Both are true. Both are shortsided. Both ignore strong aspect of the game. I hope you understand now
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@spoopy_xd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283826#Comment_3283826
It may SEEM like 3 seconds but the literal perk description says its 2.5, sorry.
And the description is wrong. That's what I said in first message. And that's what you can see in video I attached here. Watch it. It's slow motion too. Or time it yourself - you are free to replicatr it yourself
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@ByeByeQ said:
NOED is fine. The only thing I'd change is that if the killer hooks a survivor near the totem, then the totem would move elsewhere.
Your basekit Berserk is absolutely atrocious. You want to give killers a really oppressive haste, half-Unrelenting, Brutal Strength and 3 stacks of Save the Best for Last for free just because the generators got done with no time limit, without using a perk slot.
That's a hard no. Maybe during Endgame but not just once the gens are done, it'd be disgusting.
Do know what effect this would have on the game? Survivors, especially solos, would stop trying to save their teammates and just GTFO since a Berserk killer would be nigh-inescapable. Is that what you want?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287176#Comment_3287176
Exactly this. NOED is fine now. Expose status is not even the stronger part of the perk. It's those additional 5% movement speed. And OP wants that basekit + additional bonuses.
To say the truth, I'd rather they bring back old no aura NOED (which was unfair) then bring this berserk status effect
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286919#Comment_3286919
How are these things remotely equivalent? They're two different perks with different effects and activation requirements. It's like being offended that trail of torment gives undetectable for kicking a gen yet distortion requires you to be near the killer. They're entirely different things.
No? Both just knock you out for prolonged time? When it matters because you are doing your primary objective? They are the same from this POW. The only difference is that DS conditions killers for more healthy play (if not abused that is) while eruption conditions survivors to only play in 4-man SWF. And of course knocking out survivor for X second is a bit less problematic then killer for same time (as there are 4 survivors). Still - equivalent of getting 1 survivor fully hit by eruption (as I wrote above) would be exactly the same as DS being 10s long.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286768#Comment_3286768
But most people that want a fov slider don't want it for advantage reasons but because they suffer from motionsickness and basicly need to run shadowborn to play wich is not ok
I am totally OK with giving shadowborn an option to change FOV between 0 and 120 degrees or even giving it weak secondary ability. Or even 150 degrees. It's perk after all. But giving free advantage for one of few things survivors have is just not cool.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286758#Comment_3286758
"-He intentionally nerfs himself to brown or yellow addons and then gets frustrated he lost against 4 purple medkits or 4 BNP's."
Actually Otz changed his rules about addons for streaks because he was tired of exactly those things.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286758#Comment_3286758
Oh really?
Show me the 530 win streak with Pig. CMWinter's best was around 140 games before MMR. He's still a great player but he can get floored by tournament teams just as often as he gets the 4k that becomes a spicy TY video.
Better yet show me the 100 win streak with Doctor. Find me some killer main who is "tournament level" who beats tournament teams (like the ones I linked you of Hens in the other thread). That doesn't exist. Nor for Michael Myers, Trapper, Clown, and almost the entire DBD roster.
You're talking about streaks with two killers while all the rest are a complete joke by comparison. Let us remember that Blight is scheduled to lose Hug tech whenever the devs get around to it. That will reduce him down in power to A tier but when that rework happens he will probably have several addons nerfed as both Nurse/Blight have some of the highest % based power modifiers in the game - which is absurd.
With the current state of the C and D tier killers we have in DBD there is no "world's best doctor". It's about as relevant as measuring the relative footspeed of humans vs animals. Obviously Nurse would be the Tiger Beetle and blight can be the Cheetah for now. Doctor is the lowly human by comparison - if only he could run at 50x his body length per second.
Show me comp level hiding survivors. Show me comp level sabotage squads. Show me comp level self heal builds. So sure - if you go with strongest stuff on one side, you have to compare it with strongest stuff on the other side.
And it's not just blight and nurse. You will see artist and spirit there too - especially when you lift all rules comps do have but pubs don't (there's a reason why mdr spirit is not allowed). Also I can show you 100 winstreak onryo player. You can't show me 50 winstreak soloQ player.
Sure there are quite a number of killers that are weaker then best SWF. However every single one of them is stronger then soloQ. Even the worst killer in game will probably win against 4-man solos if they are same skill level.
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Eruption potentionally slows down gen for 40.25s and that is if it hits just single survivor. i calculated it in previous thread already. 25s of incapacitated + 6.25s of normal regression you can't stop (0.25c/s * 25s when you can't stop it) + 9s gen explosion (10% of 90s).
Worst thing is, that it has 0 counter in soloQ. Totally unfair perk. And yet devs seem to not care.
CoB is meta strong, but ok perk. It does not have potential of solo carrying killer's game
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286739#Comment_3286739
-"btw otz also thinks hard facecamp with Bubba is lesser evil fun wise then just stream snipe someone's game"
I didn't ask for Otz's opinion on stream sniping. But you should be aware he added a random delay within the last week to his streams to prevent people from stream sniping him. And he covers the lobby so it's even harder to tell. So tell me again that stream sniping is a non issue of no concern to Otz even though he gets sniped all the time. He literally mentioned it on today's stream that he specifically did not have "I am playing killer xyz attempting a streak" so that he would not get stream sniped.
Stream sniping isn't against the rules so it's a non issue. As a survivor I feel SWF is an unethical advantage because the game clearly isn't balanced around it. As a killer I will use any allowed means of winning at my disposal. I counter SWF when possible by listening to a live streamer. Try it with a group of your friends. Play one game with their voice coms muted and have them play the next game but undeafen yourself and listen to their coms the next game. It's a night and day difference that ultimately makes the game not fair for 95% of the killer roster.
-"Showing this video is more proof then your examples"
Here are your examples.
Hens and his team destroying a nurse :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw
Hens and his team vs a 504 win streak nurse over a set of private matches:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP4e5uCoDFQ
Hens accused of cheating vs 4 man swf playing as Nurse (timestamp is 4:15)
https://youtu.be/ZEzpkirSaNc?t=255
Why link these videos? They go to show that Nurse can counter a SWF or the SWF can counter her. SWF is broken. Nurse is broken (blight too). Nerf all of these things to make DBD a better game.
"-I didn't even bother with explaining that Ayrun has actually more hours played on killer then survivor"
So you know when Otz Dowsey and JRM play their hardcore survivor challenge Dowsey and Otz call out the addons the killer uses and then the two survivor mains just say whatever - because they don't know what those call outs mean. That's nearly an almost exact quote from Ayrun in one of the YT clips from the series.
Streamsnipe - sure it ruins his fun. I never said it's nice. But to say just streamsniping is worse than going to game and facecamping at 5 gens with basement Bubba speaks volumes.
Last time Ayrun explained it. He started as killer main. He wasn't youtuber back then. But actually he has more hours on killers then on survivors, even if he mains survivor for longer time then killers.
Also you can watch his MDR spirit. He streams it from time to time. That stuff is maybe even more nuts then godlike nurse.
Yet another thing - check Scott's video. There are artist players there that do very good too. So now it's not just nurse and blight, but suddenly also artist and spirit.
As for comms vs no comms - my group regularly plays like this. Comms do help, there's no denying it. But it's not unplayable without them (the important thing is, that we know how to play and what to do). Also there's that one aspect you purpusefully always ignore and somehow always overlook, because it does not play to your cards - what is the highest record ever for soloQ escape when tryharding to maximum? I will tell you. It's 34. After literal years of trying to beat this record. So to make it totally clear - you wanting to bring everyone to soloQ level is you wanting to have unfair advantage. Ask all the streamers mentioned, if soloQ (or even duos) are stronger then killers. I presume everyone (but maybe true talent) will tell you soloQ is the toughest role to play in the game. So the one thing most players are playing is the most weak/unfair position in game. And you ask for this to be norm. If this does not show your bias, then I have no idea what is.
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FOV is one of tools survivors have to get away from killer.
What will be next? Remove windows a d pallets, because otherwise I can't catch survivor quick enough?
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Fat shame spots or almost fat shame spots break the game for both sides. You never know if you get stuck and get free hit if you try to squeeze thru. On the killer side it's even worse with permanent infinites it creates. They are fully unloopable.
I don't mind that some loops will be artificially prolonged so long as it's clear if that boulder touches the TL or not. But please remove fat shaming spots
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286354#Comment_3286354
-"once you get above certain skill level, bully squads no longer exists."
And that's why 99% of DBD tournaments use the rule set where you can't repeat characters, items or perks (except sometimes BT is allowed to be copied)?
Otz is a 9k hour player and every now and then he gets completely floored by survivors with far fewer hours. That throws your ideas right out the window. You won't see those games on YT obviously and have to watch his channel to see them.
Bully squads exist because SWF can coordinate perks and items in an unfair way. Consider the perk Knock out for a moment. This perk is essentially useless vs a SWF. Is that fair to the killer that you invalidate one of his perks because you are playing in a SWF? Imagine if DBD accessed your PC so that if you were playing in a SWF and you were talking then your aura would appear to the killer for 5 seconds. Would that be fair compensation to the killer for playing in a SWF?
I don't think anyone wants or is asking for that but it goes to show that you're thinking about the situation only from one point of view : the survivor having fun.
Ask yourself why did the 6.0 patch happen? Do you want to put your head in the sand and declare that it was in no way related to the fact that prior to the 6.0 patch killer queues were nearly instantaneous from noon to 5 am in my region and many others? Do you want to just ignore the data pulled from the servers where we had queue data from the DBD servers where there were sometimes as many as 6000 survivors in a queue with only 45 or fewer killers?
The truth is that for the majority of the lifetime of DBD playing killer has not been a fun/enjoyable experience.
I watch him. And it's always about map balance+items. He intentionally nerfs himself to brown or yellow addons and then gets frustrated he lost against 4 purple medkits or 4 BNP's. Like should the game really be balanced so that killer can win perkless and addonless against any swf tryharding as much as possible?
Because if you are good and take full meta on killer, you can win 530+ times in a row.
Also about hours. Sweh is one of the best (he belongs to the group) survivors, yet doesn't have that many hours. Hours alone does not say full picture. They are just one indicator
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286725#Comment_3286725
The 6.0 patch before survivors got 10 seconds of borrowed time was pretty fair to killers with regard to solo queue but it actually made killers weaker against SWF.
The changes to Pop specifically crippled most killers vs SWF. Pop was giving me on average 6-9 instances of massive gen regression per game. Against SWF now they just call out if you chase them off a gen you kicked with Brine and they hyperfocus it. In the past I was regularly kicking a gen mid chase and leaving a survivor working on it. That does not work with overcharge or CoB.
named six big streamers who play both sides and you named one. Scott also stopped playing his main killer so that's not a good example as he had a mini rage quit. He's also a fog whisperer lackey and not allowed to criticize the developers.
This isn't really relevant to the topic that some of the killers that need mega buffs have been nerfed by the vault changes. I wouldn't bother to reply to you except that in so doing I also bump this thread for further attention.
This is not his tournament. Watch the video. And again - this is more then just I or some streamer thinks (btw otz also thinks hard facecamp with Bubba is lesser evil fun wise then just stream snipe someone's game - should speak volumes about his bias. And he is still very surv sided compared to true). This is best teams gameplay showing balance of the game. Before one patch that everyone but you agrees helped killers.
Showing this video is more proof then your examples. That's also the reason why I didn't even bother with explaining that Ayrun has actually more hours played on killer then survivor or that Hens would actually not outright say the game is surv sided. It's beside the point. Video is much better proof.
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@Archol123 said:
SWF does not even imply coms, if you put 4 good players in a team without communication they will still do better than people in soloq just because the matchmaking is so broken, so your conclusion is flawed from the beginning... The reasons comp squads perform that well are 1. They are all really good players by themselves 2. They have better coordination and information because of communications... If you delete the second reason by not using comms they will still play far better than your average soloq dudes... If 4 really good players play in a group withoutcoms they would still outperform the average soloq people, even if they used coms...
As for the perk itself, the boon thing only applied to boon totems with somewhat limited range as well as effect and you could avoid it by just not being in the area the boon was. But this thing applies to any regression perk and killer does not even have a clue that the perk is in this specific game... Survivors could leave the area of the negative boon, but what can killer do? He cannot even regress the gen the perk has effected... Or can he double kick them to just instantly negate it again? I don't like the idea at all.
I would allow double kick.
And I see it as same kind of weaponry - take meta perk and create something that will turn it 180 so that you will think if you want to bring that meta stuff.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286331#Comment_3286331
-Nobody who streams dbd professionally as their primary means of income and plays both survivor/killer well agrees with you.
Next time read the entire statement.
Ayrun is a survivor main. He is a perfect example of someone who only sees one side of the issue. Look at all the people who play both sides well. Where do they think the game is balanced?
Otz - survivor sided
Truetalent - survivor sided
Hens - Survivor sided
Dowsey - survivor sided
Hexy - survivor sided
Bronx - survivor sided
Do yourself a favor. Go watch Hens on Youtube. You can find a game where he plays a near perfect game as Nurse and the 4 man SWF team he was playing accused him of cheating. You can also find a video of his 4 man SWF destroying a comp nurse with high level coordinated play (including lots of clock location call outs).
The existence of those two videos tells me Nurse is "ok" because it is possible to play against it and win.
Thought Experiment:
Take a comp team and put them against any comp killer through all the maps. Do this for each killer except nurse and blight. Then do the same thing again with nurse and blight. What would such an experiment tell us? Nurse and Blight are on a different level and all the rest are vastly inferior. Fundamentally speaking Nurse and Blight don't have "bad maps" in the same way all the other killers do. That is inherently unfair from a design perspective.
Now dial it back. Remove the "only the top 1% aspect". Take a good group of SWF who all understand the game and run the same experiment vs a seasoned killer. Blight and Nurse will dominate compared to the rest. Now repeat the experiment again and instead of SWF and pre planning make the players random. Take away voice coms and see what happens. Kill rates will rise and there will be more hooks; gens overall will take much longer.
It's unthinkable that people are actually going to argue that SWF is fine". I will be the first person in line to ask for Blight/Nurse nerfs after we nerf SWF. We can't ever have a balanced game as long as two killers are S tier and everything else ranges from D to A tier. We also can't have a balanced game when you can play with voice coms and have the exact same MMR as people playing alone.
Thinking about the big Picture - SWF would be a lot more fair if they only played against Nurse/Blight players of their skill level (they would only play vs other killers who "opted in"). Obviously that wouldn't work with the game population. But imagine for a moment if every person linked in a SWF raised linked that player's MMR by 400 points. Further Imagine if a 3 or 4 man squad modified each player by 600 or 800 points respectively. That might be fair for the game we have.
This was before patch 6.1. patch 6.1 without a doubt helped killers. Now we Also have soloQ which is inherently weaker.
https://youtu.be/NpbkGmt-C9o -
@YOURFRIEND said:
I like how you immediately lead with some pearl clutching us-vs-them nonsense immediately. Really makes your idea seem unbiased and worth considering.
That being said, a single survivor perk that can nullify an entire suite of killer perks is patently ridiculous. You could have saved yourself a lot of time and just written a capslock post about how killers are op and they need to be gutted blah blah blah. Same effect.
No. It has activation condition (need to do 50% of gen to activate it). Also it activates on single gen. I thought that's clear from what I have written.
Basically it has same principle - revert huge buff if someone applies it on that single instance but leave all the other instances intact. It's the same principle as killer wanting to have 1 perk that negates entire suite of survivor perks. Same principle. Same risks involved.
Also what is wrong with stressing that it's actual survivors that are loosing way more then killers? And why should I not use same principle of perk buff that stronger role already asks to have? It's simply just about balance. If you add something to one side, it's only natural someone else would want to have same stuff on the other side.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286334#Comment_3286334
They really don't feel any different than before. The only way you would be impacted by the changes was if you were someone who was spam clicking in which case I don't really feel sorry for you losing that.
Actually agreed
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284953#Comment_3284953
Balanced and punitive mean different things.
Preventing bullying via SWF would make the game more enjoyable for everyone. There are plenty of exhaustion perks, second chance perks and it would create more strategy to require you to not be able to stack multiple copies of the same perks/items.
Punitive would be : you are playing in a swf therefore every linked person increases gen/totem/healing/etc times by 20%.
once you get above certain skill level, bully squads no longer exists. Meaning bully squads will always be part of the game, because there will always be considerably newer players then other players. Deleting every bully squad would mean that 5K+ hrs people would not be able to make loops around 5hrs player. That's just ridiculous. That would mean killers would get 100% kill rate if killer has at least 1/10th of skill weakest survivor has.
Right now if you have even slightly same skill as those survivors, then they will absolutely fail to bully you - because it would result in many free hits and very possibly 4 slugged survivors on the ground.
The only real counter to this is, that devs will gradually remove toxicity from the game. I don't know how you want to prevent killer nodding at survivor after down or hitting him on hook, but sure that would go the same direction as actually removing bully squads
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285205#Comment_3285205
I would not even call it good on those two, just because it is rather easy to not be injured on 4 people and the additional 14 % slowdown or what it is will just not be a thing that often, even against legion you could probably argue that taking the additional % slowdown would be a better call than to group up and heal, because it offers multiple hits to the Legion, but that depends on the situation I think.
I disagree. You usually want one person healed anyway - to be able to go unhook from basement, work on gen in dead zone etc (I already wrote that above). Also thana slows down multiple things. E.g. sabotaging against thana is considerably harder, as you need to start sabotages sooner - so killer can see you sooner and change direction sooner which means he will probably make it to next hook. Another thing if you can keep multiple people injured, then thana + regression is actually better then double regression - these 2 things multiply each other and it's harder for survivor to rush that gen before killer can apply any regression.
I think you underestimate the perk on those 2 killers. The only thing is, that sure enough 6% regression is nothing and if you can't keep 4 injured, the perk is useless. But 20% is quite considerable slowdown and nothing to laugh at.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285085#Comment_3285085
Not Queen declared years ago that Stream sniping was allowed and would not be punished. It goes both ways as many survivors stream snipe killers like Otz when he is trying to do a streak.
I do not watch people I play against, I just listen to their coms. This counteracts the cheat like advantage that SWF provides. Adding a 30 second delay would make that pointless but then they cant interact with their audience.
-"admiting to streamsniping is disgusting in itself"
It's one of the few ways to balance the advantage of SWF. You're probably one of those people that say : SWF balances out how OP all the killers are.
Because killers are OP. Try to play solo and check your win rate. SWF and killer are equal from 6.1 patch onwards. Even best survivor players are not able to get over 50% escape rate. How can average player even play the game as solo now? You wanting for everyone to be solo level just shows how much you want to win EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. That's not fair.
And stream sniping is disgusting no matter which side does that. It does not matter if stream snipers snipe killer or survivor. It's disgusting no matter what.
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@MrKrabsArgArgArg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285980#Comment_3285980
I am personally not against Ruin being buffed, or even just completely reverted to it's old state. As for it being cleansed before endgame, I figure in a lot of my games where I try ruin, I find that my totem isn't really cleansed out of just a lack of care, and it goes away. I also know that Gate regression is a topic that comes up a lot, and I figure, why not just add it to Ruin, since it's already a perk that's not good anymore anyway
Unless they add Gate regression as a non hex, I don't see why not
agreed. I mean they wanted to change meta so making it 150% would make it good perk, but not meta perk. So I am perfectly OK with both buffs. Maybe even reverting ruin completely (but that might clash with dev ideas so).
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285077#Comment_3285077
-"You got it wrong. As of right now killer and 4-man SWF are equal"
Nobody who streams dbd professionally as their primary means of income and plays both survivor/killer well agrees with you.
Have you tried to ask Supaalf what he thinks about current nurse? Have you tried to ask Ayrun what he thinks about MDR spirit? Have you even tried to speak to anyone and not just say something that makes 0 sense?
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@FrostyEyesSusie said:
Making the easy role even easier and overpowered? You're definitely BHVR dev material.
What? This is survivor buff. not killer buff. It's buff to actually weaker role. Check stats. 60% kill rate. SoloQ can't handle anything. Even best survivors have 50% escape rate on soloQ. Best killers have exactly 100% win rate - 530 games in a row. Only SWF have almost equal chance against killers. And yet as killer I win much much more then survivor
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It would keep ruin weak. I think ruin needs at least better numbers. 150% regression and sure - it can regress gates too. The perk is weak and probably cleansed long before endgame anyway
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@kisfenkin said:
I think noed is much better than it was. I don't think it needs a change nearly as badly as eruption. These two perks are on completely different levels.
Then again, if you are seeing noed every map that says more about where you are in MMR than anything (you are probably low-mid tier). Learn where totems spawn. Look for it while someone else is working on the door. Also, stop expecting that you should escape every match. The closer you get to cap MMR the more you will die unless you are playing in a 4 man SWF with comms. That's just a fact. I expect a 25% escape rate at this point, and that is pretty accurate. By that I mean some survivors in the group will escape one out of every four games. Other than hatch, the other three games are very likely to be four kills. The killer that has escapes is almost always one of the few that choose not to play the metas. The other three are always using some combination of the meta perks eruption, call of brine, jolt, overcharge, dead man's switch, pain resonance, and sloppy butcher, mostly depending on which ones work best for the killer they are playing.
And if you have SWF, you have about 50% escape rate. That's why a lot of killer mains want SWF nerfed. 50% way too OP
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how to make weak perk instantly way too OP.
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@RaSavage42 said:
Why are you adding Incapacitation twice?
1st time as normal regression that you can't stop (that are those 6.25s). 2nd time as a missed opportunity to work on a gen (25s)
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285829#Comment_3285829
Wait... really... I thought that it was 10s explosion regression and 25 seconds of incapacitated
This is what I get for not playing the game... LOL
When eruption activates, it does immediate 10% of 90s gen which is 9s. Normal regression is 0.25c/s. It's 25s when you can't touch it. Meaning 0.25*25=6.25s regression. And then there's 25s when you can't work on a gen. So to be precise, it's not 40s. It's 40.25s of regression just by hitting single survivor.
Now imagine it does hit 3 survivors. That's immediate 4/3 of gen or 120.75s worth of regression. Quite strong right? Show me one other perk that can potentially slow down gen progress by 2 minutes just by activating once (and can do so multiple times). That's why people complain about the perk so much.
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@RaSavage42 said:
NOED effects those Survivors whom only want to go the Gens... So stop focusing on Gens and cleanse Totems
Eruption makes the Killer kick Gens to get anything out of it... 10% plus .25 charges per second for 25 seconds equals about 10 or so seconds of repair
And if it were changed to block Gens it wouldn't be as powerful as it is right now...
Blocking the gens- no more regression after the 10% is knocked off
But I figured that if the Gens were unrepairable for 25 Seconds... the Survivors can still heal, cleanse and unhook
eruption is 9s explosion regression, 6s regression why you can't touch it and 25s of not working on a generator. 40s total generator slowdown by just hitting single survivor. That's why people consider the perk unfair for soloQ
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Personally I would make whisper activate twice. 1x when in 32m range and second time (e.g. different color) when in 50% range of it (meaning 16m on tier 3). The perk actually needs buff. Nobody plays it as there are much better options.
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@Liam282 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285077#Comment_3285077
Your statement is coming purely from a survivor bias. If you've played killer you would know it is the most difficult role in the game emphasising time management skills and efficiency. Anyone with more than 10 hours at least as killer can tell you it is by no means " much easier than survivor" I enjoy my difficulty but there comes a point where you have to take a stand against pointless changes that only serve to handicap the other side.
Also soloQ by huge margin is objectively toughest role. Even most cracked players trying very hard to win get out at around 50%. Best killers win exactly 100% of games (530 games in a row now)
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@Liam282 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285077#Comment_3285077
Your statement is coming purely from a survivor bias. If you've played killer you would know it is the most difficult role in the game emphasising time management skills and efficiency. Anyone with more than 10 hours at least as killer can tell you it is by no means " much easier than survivor" I enjoy my difficulty but there comes a point where you have to take a stand against pointless changes that only serve to handicap the other side.
Oh I play killer 90% of time now. I got tired of loosing almost every game as survivor.
Your statement would have been very true in year 2016. Right now killer is 100% much easier then survivor.
Like sure - it does not apply on every killer in a game. But when I play my wesker, twins, nurse or spirit, I know that odds are greatly in my favor.
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As a long time saboteur user, best buff I could imagine for the perk would be if the description was accurate. Make sabotages take 2.5s.
Also to prevent accidental usage (but this would be just QOL, instead of buffing the perk), make going on CD if you sabotage for at least 0.5s. this way you can cancel if you see you started sabotage accidentally, but would otherwise make no gameplay difference.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285426#Comment_3285426
Strange, I wonder what causes the yellow bar then
No idea