Gandor
Gandor
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@Technature said:
I can't believe there is someone looking at The Game, one of the maps survivors send me to more than anywhere else, and are saying "This map is too easy for killer".
UNIRONICALLY!
I see you live in old version of map that had up to 34 pallets. That map no longer exists
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@FilthyLegionRevival said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377384#Comment_3377384
What you said after contradicts what you JUST said before. You sure it isn't?
How is that a contradiction? I said I think that endgame the perk should stay disabled (so this part of change in 6.1 was good). And I also said, that changing the timer to 3s - which is in fact only 2s thanks to the drop animation - that this part is a joke.
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I don't think it's good idea to revert disable. But those 3s (actually 2s) are a joke.
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@Technature said:
I'm sorry, what?
Are you actually insinuating that The Game doesn't have enough pallets to withstand a build specifically to counter pallets?
The Saw Map? Are we talking about the same thing?
Because I chased someone who threw down pallets if I was anywhere near him as Chainsaw Wraith and it not only took forever, I didn't even destroy HALF the pallets down there!
You've got the god window that goes from Top floor to Bottom floor, and the bottom floor is almost a literal maze.
Literally the only killers that are going to give you trouble on The Game and that you should expect when you see that puzzle piece are certain stealth killers and Nurse.
Take legion with iri button and resetting power at stun and you have exactly no chance. That thing is by huge margin worse then nurse on that map (and I am saying this even after acknowledging nurse strength on this map). But you don't even need that.
All you need is any killer with some slowdown and spirit fury/enduring/hubris/brutal strength combo and 0 respect for any pallet. Say you take pig (but you have other killers with slowdowns) with addon to hide boxes and start with traps on a head - this gives you enough time to just delete all the pallets and kill anyone trying to do anything about them.
Alternatively you can go at it the other way around. DMS+deadlock+PR+jolt bubba/billy/nemesis/wraith are also way too strong.
Also the map got nerfed if you compare it to historical state. It used to have up-to 34 pallets - which meant killer didn't really have a chance when playing normally, but there were still things to be done for survivors and pallet-build killer. Right now it contains up-to 25 pallets - which would be fine if there wasn't specific anti-pallet build in game.
So again. The map is broken. It's very unfair that it contains just 1 resource and killers are able to have a build that eliminates said resource from existence. I would much rather face random nurse on this map, then anti-pallet build considering the state the map is in. It's just pure awful. Maybe try it yourself. Go to that map yourself with antipallet build and see how easy you win it (if you take any killer that has some kind of slowdown or ultra quick pallet annihilations).
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Me watching the game - it's indeed incentivising killer late evenings. Maaaybe even 2-3hrs a day. Rest of the time it's on survivor. Check any day at noon and I guarantee you the incentive will be on survivor without any fail. Me playing the game on both roles always winning more on killer (not always, just way more).
It's much more likely your friend had such experience, because there are barely any low-tier survivors playing the game. The game is too rough on those. You guys helping her in SWF sure helps. But let her play soloQ and then ask which role has it easier and why would anyone play killer...
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@DrFrozen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376794#Comment_3376794
Yeah CoB should not give the info when survivor hit a Good Skillcheck. Maybe Overcharge should start from 50% instead. I mean mainly only CoH is good and other boons are trash. I wanted to make them more worthy by increasing range...
It seems like you are crybaby and hate going against the Nurse so you want to remove Lethat Pursuer....
It seems you are survivor main instead that loves his precious tincy-wincy DH
And yet I don't mind nurse that much (in a game where SM and knight exist) and I haven't used DH for more then my last 1000 hrs odlf gameplay (meaning last DH I used still had dash forward).
The point was your meta shakeup is not meta shakeup, but huge killer buff. Ignoring the fact killer is already winning role
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Also CoB no longer regresses gen, only information is given when survivors don't get great skillcheck.
Overcharge starts from 25% instead of 75% and goes up to 200%.
STBFL has max of 4 stacks
Jolt - reduce distance to 4m
Lethal pursuer - remove showing survivors at the start of the trial
ProofThyself - 30% speed boost per survivor
Hangman's trick - hook sabotages take additional 0.5s
Don't like the changes? Well I just did exactly the same thing you did. I am just 99.999999% sure you are killer main.
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@Technature said:
"Devs please fix the map. It's one of the most insufferable and impossible maps if killer brings it."
"insufferable and impossible maps if killer brings it."
"if killer brings it."
Aight. Imma just head out now.
Sure. Because the map has only 1 survivor resource which killer can shut down with build. Meaning if he's prepared, then it's insufferable. It's the same like old pre-nerf boil over and survivors bringing old RPD offering - killer had no chance but to bleed them out - because top of library guaranteed you couldn't hook.
But at least you could still bleed them out there. The game is different. It has exactly 0 strong windows and 3 "usable" windows. So take anti-pallet build and enjoy easy mindless win
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@jinx3d said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376655#Comment_3376655
then change garden of joy, badham, and borgo. all of them have nothing going against survivors, and if killers cant have their one good map, survivors cant have theirs
GoJ is small - that's something. Badham has big open parts (aka deadzones) - that's at least something. Borgo is very open favoring some killers (and being really bad against standard M1's) that's also something. It's not much, but it's still something.
Midwitch had bad hook placement. The map does not have even that now.
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And while we are at the topic. Fix midwitch too. The map out of all the things had exactly 1 thing going against killers (everything else was very much advantageous to them) - the hooks. You fixed hook spawns (I would say u even went overboard - it's impossible to sabotage in the map now) and left EVERYTHING else the way it was.
The map right now has 0 things going for survivors. It's like if ANY killer can't win on the midwitch, then MMR screwed up very bad. No conditions. No situations. No bad RNG. Just pure and hard outplay with large margin. Super bad design
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376534#Comment_3376534
But if the problem is that the killer is never going to commit to a chase (which everyone seems to agree here), you dont need to leave the gen if the killer does not go directly into the generator, you can wait a bit, as you know that at the moment he kicks the gen he is not going to chase you.
Also, again if he is not going to commit, why lose time healing? Isnt better to just keep repairing the gens? Healing is not going to help you if the killer is not going to chase you anyways.
I get that 3 gens can be frustrating on certain specific scenarios, but people seems to say that it has zero counters and on my experience, is not so "uncounterable" as people make it to be, as long as people just keep trying to repair the gens and mantaining some distance when killer comes to a gen, without leaving it far if the killer does not chase so they can be back to the gen quickly.
So you wait there for first hit to be able to heal for long? Briliant. You just reduced your efficiency even more and allowed the killer to regress your meager progress you've done so far.
Please try to play survivor at least a little bit. You would see the issue immediately.
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376504#Comment_3376504
As long as you are aware of terror radius and you see her coming from a long distance and leave the gen at that moment (without losing her on the camera, so at the moment she kicks the gen, if she choses to go back into another gen, you quickly go back into this one) that can be easily 20-25 seconds of minimum chase time, not 5. Thats only counting the time she needs to reach you running, not the looping after that.
Right. So everyone complaining about SM and knight are making things up... And all the games taking 30+mins are not happening.
I don't need to know anything more to be 100% certain you don't play survivor (and I am not talking about maining one side - I am talking about not playing the other side at all).
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@ShroudedGhostFace said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376539#Comment_3376539
You’re definitely just trolling. DH hurts M1 killers and lower tier killers the most. The strongest killers in the game are barely affected by it.
You sound like you need to play a few matches as Clown or Pig and then come back to this thread and tell me that DH is not much of a problem for weaker M1 killers
Sure. Nurse and blight don't notice the perk at all. Like their abilities can absolutely wait it out on every occasion. On the other hand both clown and pig can't effort to wait 0,5s before they swing ever /s
Talking about trolling and responding with THAT!
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@ShroudedGhostFace said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376524#Comment_3376524
No it just cause a meta shakeup and more people would use lithe, SB, and balanced landing to replace DH.
Also, you’re seriously saying that ALL killers need to be nerfed because this ONE survivor perk is so powerful that it is single handedly keeping the kill rates from exceeding 60%? One perk nerfed so all killers nerfed?
Your statement literally proves that DH is absolutely busted and needs to be nerfed.
It's the perk that helps the most against strongest killers. So generally speaking YES. But let's say that there could be a few exceptions to the rule - say Freddy does not need any more punishment.
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375631#Comment_3375631
But that's about the "3 gen" scenario right? I was answering to the one who was saying "tunnel at 5 gens".
But anyways, i also have some doubts about the "3 gen" scenario. What makes it difficult to break? I know Knight and SM are the ones actually really good at mantaining 3 gens, but i see that people also bash CoB and Overcharge, but in reallity what makes them so strong in 3 gen scenario?
You can have 3 people repairing, one on each gen (im talking with 3 survivors, because lets be honest, with 2 survivors even if its not a 3 gen its really difficult to escape), what can the killer do on those situation?
Goes to a gen (other 2 are being repaired), the survivor leaves the gen, the killer kicks it, then the killer has two options: chase the survivor or leave and go into another gen.
If he chases, the other two are being repaired.
If he leaves to another gen, the survivor just goes back to the gen and keeps repairing. It would have not reverted much, the baseline 2.5% and maybe a little more for 1 or 2 seconds with CoB + OC combo, then repeat again.
On which non Knight and SM cases are difficult to break the 3 gen?
You assume that survivors can teleport to/from gen. If gens are close (think saloon) - killer has MUCH shorter walking distance then survivors (if they don't want to give him hit in literal 2s). So it means survivors need to sometimes leave the gen even if killer is not going directly to their generator. If they don't, it's ~30+s for single survivor healing (5s going to boon, 21s heal, 5s going back and this is still like super optimistic scenario for boons - if you place boon closer, killer can stomp it and distract ppl from doing it resulting in even much longer wasted time. If you don't have CoH, wasted time will be even much longer).
So overall the problem is the combination of strong perks, very close 3gens (especially on some maps) and a lot of killer powers (mobility or slowdown).
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@ShroudedGhostFace said:
DH will never be a fair or balanced perk that is healthy in DBD gameplay. It needs to be nerfed into complete irrelevance to the point where people forget the perk even exists.
Then there comes the need to balance it out. Because killers overperfomed (as said - over 60%kr not counting DC's). So maybe make all killers base 3% slower?
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373896#Comment_3373896
Honestly, do you even need to heal or get rid of the exposed effect?
The problem seems to that the killer never commits to a chase, right?
Can't you just ignore the wounded state/exposed effect and just keep repairing?
No you can't. She is guarding her 3gen and she chased away ppl long enough for all the pallets that are close by to run out. Meaning if you stay injured/exposed on the gen, it will be very easy for her to get downs (said in a different way - to commit for 5s to get down).
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/368519/huntress-iridescent-head-face-camping
This addon is too powerful and completely changes the concept of the huntress. Especially when she's camping, which happens all the time. It seems to me that I should make a condition for the rainbow ax - example 1) the hunter must hunt for a survivor for 15 seconds to activate the rainbow ax 2) The rainbow axe is activated after 10 meters of flight and at close range it is a regular ax for one wound. Thus, the rainbow ax will also be deadly in the distance BUT it will just solve the problem with camping and the abuse of the cheating axe.
This would be rework. I mean - sure, this would be one way to solve it. But if this would be the case, you would need to lift condition of this addon reducing number of axes to 1 (without possibility for other addons to change it). Also I think 15s is too much - 10 would be enough. Otherwise I like the idea
After all - it's iridescent addon and it should be good
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@Spectralfx said:
Hot take: The 3 gen meta isn't fueled by any killer's perk.
It's fueled but Circles of Healing and other boons that allows the survivors to rush the other gens very quickly (maybe after a down or 2 the killer only has 1-2 gen to go)
then what happens is a stalemate because all the 4 remaining survivors have to do is cycle through a deadzone the killer can't afford to pressure and just take turns forever. Dead hard and other mobility exhaustion perks basically guaratee the survivors a fall back plan to their team's designated healing spot and said healing no longer requires a teammate.
the result is obvious, killers have been falling back to these regression perks not by choice but by necessity.
any killer that isn't Nurse or Blight do not have the mobility to pressure the healings provided by the totem and said totem's magic never runs out. It keeps the game in a slow albeit certainly losing curve that the Skull merchant can merely offset at best (Hence the current state of the game).
if Boons were like hexes and could removed from play, I guarantee the story would be different.
unfortunatley, the precedent is that the devs nerf killers again and again and fail to address the source of the issue that is rooted in the survivor's toolkit
soon to come more nerfs to the pig I guess... oh wait this time it's going to be skull merchant.
The game used to be MUCH harder on killers years ago. But nobody ever needed to camp 3gen from the start. As a matter of fact - if somebody did that - it was same as hitting "I give up" button. Because there was no way to stall the game indefinitely. But there were no strong regression perks that needed to just kick a gen and there were no killer abilities that helped regression even more.
The point is - you are totally wrong. This tactics was never feasible before 6.1 - and that is the only reason why it's being done so much now as never before. I am willing to bet everything that outside of memeing (meaning much less then 5% of all games - no matter which killer), nobody would guard his 3gen from the start of the game should this be a loosing tactics the same way as it worked before the patch. Right now it's rare to see SM that doesn't 3gen from the start.
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Sure. Remove some pallets from Lery's, Midwitch, both RPD's, saloon, wretched shop, wrecker's yard and so on.
Because all the maps are soooo "survivor sided" that survivors barely play the game as is. The incentives are on survivor side the whole day but on the evening so it's extremely good idea to nerf all the maps.
What about removal DH and CoH in the process, making gens take 110s and buffing all the gen regression things - especially base regression. All these things will 100% fix the issue of whole day survivor incentives. This just needs to be done!
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There are ways to punish it hard.
So long that killers don't convince devs it's good idea that 3 other survivors that cannot do anything but gens should do them for 5 minutes/gen so that killers have nice long camping games (something popping up here in threads all the time), it's pretty balanced. Especially if somebody not on hook brought reassurance (and then it's up to you to not go down close to basement).
So overall if you know what to do, facecamping killer can actually get 0K just thanks to the fact, that he facecamped someone (you trade on hooks, ideally using reassurence as much as possible and you get the last one out by adrenaline or by outplaying said huntress at least once or by WGLF/unbreak/deli/DH/soul guard/flashlight save/sabo save).
Like I don't consider camping that big of a problem. Like it's noninteractive. It's generally boring. But you as survivor team still have an option. It's much harder considering tunneling (and devs deciding for some reason to promote said strategy by hard-nerfing DS into uselessness and giving back joke-perk OTR as a substitute that can be deactivated by real tunneling killer within 1s of unhook).
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Huntress is the least oppresive from the quad problematic killers. Bubba, Billy and pinky clown are much worse. I would even argue trickster is worse in this regards (even though he does not need his insta-addon). Runner up is basement trapper - but that one is by far not as free (and works by locking up basement for potential 4K if survs decide to rescue).
So to sum up - I don't think huntress needs to be specifically looked at in this regards. Fix Billy, Bubba and Clown facecamps and the rest is just advantageous position for killer (on the other hand, buff chase billy)
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@Z0mbiv0r said:
I guess there is a bit of a problem when a killer can only bring 4 perks, 2 add-ons and 1 offering vs 16 perks, 8 add-ons and 4 offerings in the survivor side. It's not usually a problem for me, since I don't really care for offerings or add-ons, but it certainly can have a huge impact in swf's, since they can plan for something which usually puts the killer at a disadvantage. Tbh, I haven't seen it many times in my 300 h in the game, but it does raises a point. But what would the solution be? I can only think of making killer offerings so much better than survivor's to counter the 4 offerings they could bring. Still, I'm not sure about it.
That would be true if survivors had perks that after interaction with gen for 2 second will start to progress gen at 200% speed for 1 minute.
The strength of perks is by far not the same. The balancing factor is the number of perks.
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@BarnesFlam said:
COH should have its self-healing aspect removed.
Call of brine should have it's gen regression part removed...
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373410#Comment_3373410
No. If you take a dollar out of a pocket, put another inside instead. If you can't count right, don't take dollar out of pocket at all.
by official stats - 61% kill rate in higher MMR. Nerfing few strong remaining things will just mean you have to buff survivors. They are already weaker role.
So given your example - take last dollar from a poor one and give it to the richer person
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@theblimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373408#Comment_3373408
Don't make it so killer can't kick the same gen more than 3 times make it so perks don't affect it more than 3 times and that would be enough. Finding a totem and booning it without being interupted is not a hard thing to do, nobody destroys dulls any more, I have very rarely seen thrill of the hunt abd if they are guarding totems they are throwing the game, quickly snuffing doesn't matter as the killer has wasted a huge amount of time to get to find and get to it, and any way for a survivor to heal themselves even if it take 32 seconds is way better for survivors than having two people off gens for the time it takes for them to find each other and the 16 seconds to heal
One plaything and all totems are gone. And no. Survivors destroy dull totems. IDK if it's for points or if it's overzelous/inner healing, but it happens often. Maybe not in SWF.
Also your math does not check out in any way possible. 1, just pure boon healing is 21s instead of 32s (this goes towards your argument) 2, travel time is important 3, booning time is important 4, finding good bones is THE MOST important thing that takes most of the time (there are so many games that boons single-handedly lost the game, because of need to reboon instead of doing gens) 5, being able to get to that area is also super important - a lot of killers use boons against survivors - as a lure for easy 1hit downs.
But sure. Boons can be beneficial. They can actually carry the game. But that is most likely purely the fact that it can be set up and will never be interrupted or snuffed if killer is guarding his 3gen - making it's efficiency skyrocket. But in regular games where nobody is playing territorially - it's slower then self-care, but buffs the team - so overall about as good as self care without botany + but with quicker altruistic healing.
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It changes everything. Those seconds are the thing that moved you VERY SLOWLY forward against knight. But those mere seconds are the reason why you will never finish the 3gen if killer does not badly misplay. Also she can get that drone back without any cooldown (she has 4 drones, but needs just 3 of them)
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373190#Comment_3373190
Indeed. Let killer players dedicate one of their 16 perk slots to Shattered Hope. Oh wait, killer also has 4 perk slots? How come?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373282#Comment_3373282
That is nowhere near fair trade here.
DH and COH are almost always used in games where MMR is average and above. Killer perks that are used so commonly usually end up gutted to garbage tier. I'm yet to see a single perk receiving the so-called ''BHVR treatment''.
Ah. So remove all the remaining things on survivor side, but keep all the obnoxious things on killer side. Ok I get it now
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@theblimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373397#Comment_3373397
What is the point you are trying to make, I understand that boons and hexes are different but why should a boon placed in a strong spot like the top floor of a building be infinitely repspawnable, that's what I want shattered hope to be basekit for
Make 3genning not possible. If killer kick a gen 3x, make it not kickable ever again. Why? Because limited boons and strong 3gens. Makes no sense? So does nerfing boons with current state of game.
Also Ironworks placement in top of the building is indeed bad. But it's not like anyone can select precisely this map (you can at most pick realm).
And another thing - finding totem, moving to it, not being interupted, nobody destroying dulls, killer having thrill and guarding his totems, shattered hope, quick snuffing, being zoned out from the location of boons are all the reasons that killers conveniently forget. In the end on average - healing in boon for single player takes longer then getting heal from basic self care. The timing is THAT bad
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what about nerfing pig instead? /s
(I just had to. This meme and opportunity is just too good to pass over)
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/368248/option-to-type-perk-when-making-a-build
I wonder if typing out perk names slowly & painfully with my controller would be any faster than flipping through the pages...
You might wonder if it will be quicker on console. But over time as more and more perks come to life - it just will be quicker
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Also. Matching losses is important. What do people complain about here? DH - which more often then not does literally nothing (e.g. exhausted on the ground, being in animation doing nothing). SWF (there are very few 4mans with comms so it should be just shrugged off as exception that does not matter). Then there's camping (there's a good tool against it with reassurance). CoH (ppl ignore fact that the perk can be more time waste then actual benefit).
What do these have in common? They feel very bad if they clutch the game against you - even if they don't work very reliably. But those games are just more memorable. So if people complain about it because bad = memorable, then WHY WOULD YOU ignore draws and only ever care about wins vs non-wins (yes non-win is not just loose)?
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373304#Comment_3373304
I already did, and I already told you why you can't have it your way and equalizing it by the amount of loses. In fact, just revert everything I said about wins so they are loses and it will stand the same.
At this point, you are either trolling or just in pure denial.
No. You are just ignoring HUGE part of equation. Losses are real. Losses feel much worse then draws. It's like. I don't even know who am I arguing with. Feels like it's impossible to explain to you that losses feel worse then draws. Wins != not loose. There is 3rd state. DRAW. The fact you are ignoring it is just so mindblowing it feels the same as saying "it feels better to loose then to win" or "0 kills is better then 4 for killer"
Also. Your math STILL doesn't check out. Because you are still thinking loose=not win. Which is just not true. For that reason - you are calculating nonsense.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373265#Comment_3373265
Because it is an asymmetric game where the rankings don't work equally for both sides, where the killer needs to do his job (kill at least 3) to win versus a team of 4 without exception, and even if he won he will lose their accessories. Survivors, even if one of them didn't do any single objective in all the match only need to escape himself to be considered a win for him, he will keep the items he brought or the ones that took on the map, and if it is the last survivor left he will be granted a free chance to escape.
And if all that didn't convince you, the biggest one: Because mathematically speaking it is the fairest it will ever be because the asymmetric nature of the game. If like you said they make it so killrates would be 40% it would be 160 survivors killed in 100 games, or 1.6 survivors per game, meaning killers would always lose or tie their MMR matches while survivors would have a 60% winrate.
How that sounds fairest to you than both sides winning the same on average? In fact, sorry, but only caring about loses when both sides are balanced in winnings only makes you sound extremely resentful.
win win win win win win win win win. NO. AGAIN. COMPARE LOSSES!
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You can remove both COH (this thread practically removes it - because it's already by far nor as good as these thread make it sound - time wise - because everyone just conveniently forgets looking for totem, moving to range, having free dull totem, booning time, interuptions which regress whole process, etc) and DH. But then disable gen kicking altogether (with all associated perks to it). One of the main reason these perks are required is the obnoxious ability for killer to make every match last so long, that there are literally just windows on the map.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372282#Comment_3372282
I'm all for STBFL staying as it is.
Sucks that the counter to this perk is to have the 1 survivor with Reassurance also bring a perk to increase their chance to be the Obsession; 1 survivor to heal the Obsession up and send them back in to the hook; and another survivor slowly whittling gens in the background while Reassurance buys them time. All to counter 1 perk. 🤷♂️
RIP, solo q
no. That's not the play. Obsession does not need to go to chases. She just has to take hits. Most reliable way how to get them is to be close to chased survivor (you can do gen nearby, you are just waiting for the down) and take hit under the hook to force killer to hit you or to drop hooked person (then you dip immediately). If you have ways to heal yourself after that, then you are golden.
There are just 2 disadvantages for soloQ compared to comms SWF - calling out STBFL and having the knowledge how to counterplay against it. No special perks are required. Reassurance is not needed at all (specifically for STBFL case - you need it against generic camping case only).
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@Blueberry said:
You all just work on different gens. If injured you have a CoH sitting just outside to solo reset. If she commits to anyone she loses. If she doesn't commit and just keeps running back and forth y'all will slowly do the gens faster than she can regress them, even with all gen kick perks.
If this isn't working for y'all then people on your team are making misplays.
This worked for me against knight after very tiring match. But it does not work against SM. The difference is subtle - you always need to hack drone which takes some time. If you don't, then you don't need to heal at all because you will be exposed anyway (and as she is guarding her 3gen, there are no pallets nearby after a short time). But she can immediately redeploy her drone back.
The time she gains by using her ability is just enough for her to be able to regress the gens ad infinity. The only way to break it is to wait until she misplays several times (can happen in 30+mins match). If she plays perfect, you just HAVE TO have perfect coordination or genrush build. Otherwise it's gg.
But at this point I feel it's no longer worth it. The match will take ages to finish and it will most likely result in loose anyway. It's just MUCH MUCH MUCH more appealing to throw the match and hope you don't get her next game. You can have 2-3 normal games in time of 1L by SM
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@AFKbyDaylight said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372492#Comment_3372492
I understand what you're trying to say, but it just does not work in the current context. Shadowborn does not eliminate Those mid chase strategy's that you are talking about, a 102 degree FOV is not going to stop people from breaking line of sight or positioning themselves in ways to mind game mid-chase against killers like Oni or Blight.
Will it help in some edge cases? Of course, but 102 degrees is within in a VERY standard range for most games in general. It is not going to give you some superhuman insight. There is a reason the #1 thing people complain about when it comes to FOV is the fact that you need a perk to make it standard values. People will still do 360's, LOS, window tech, hiding behind obstacles, they will just have to in some VERY edge cases adapt to how they go about it. I don't really believe that in anyway that would be a bad thing for the potential benefits.
You could add this change into the game the next day and I guarantee you people would still have the options they have today, even if a couple "Techs" become harder to execute is that really a bad thing? Do you really think this game needs to be that streamlined?
I am not so sure about that. 102 FOV is a lot
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@BenOfMilam said:
Less @ OP, more @ entire thread here.
It's kinda funny that Deathslinger is one of the most controversial killers. People think he's either A tier or D tier. The people that actually put a lot of time into him say he's A tier, and I don't think someone who has 1k+ hours on Trapper will try to tell you he is A tier...
Here's the funny thing about Slinger's TR change: it didn't change the fact that he can equip a single perk and shoot you from outside his terror radius. Any Oblivious or Undetectable perk lets him do the exact same thing that M&A let him do, except it also made him way more difficult for anyone that isn't relying on stealth perks.
They nerfed his TR because of a single perk, when there are dozens of other perks that let him stealth snipe anyway lol
M&A is very free tho, compared to something like Trail of Torment or Plaything. You just slap the perk on and you're good to go.
But also, why is it bad that Slinger can shoot you from outside his TR when Huntress can easily snipe you from outside her lullaby? Slinger isn't even guaranteed a down, since you can break off the chain.
idk, I think his TR should go back to 24m. You can use your eyeballs and see if the killer is coming even well beyond 16m, 24m, or even 32m. He needs a straight line between you and him to land a shot, and anything he can shoot through or over you can SEE through or over.
There's a reason why skilled (with this killer) people consider him A-tier. The amount of little gaps he can shoot thru (and there are these things on like every map and "buttload" of them) and surprise survivors is insane. Skilled DS will know them and will be able to abuse them - making him nightmare to face. But beginner DS will struggle to get a shot in the open if survivor is juking.
The killer in fact IS strong, but he's just hard to pick up (definitely harder then nurse). This is also the reason why many ppl perceive DS as weak killer.
Making him true stealth killer (16m TR) or win-win killer (returning insta-scope) would just catapult him into unfair territory - where the only counterplay is genrush and going to die into corners. So no - none of these 2 things can ever return. Also plaything is fine - it has it's conditions and is not permanent like just lazily equipping M&A.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372259#Comment_3372259
Killer looses 40% of games (because 2 kills is NOT loosing the game). Survivors loose 60% of games. Reread your own response and tell me it ain't so.
Sorry but no, it ain't so because again, killers and survivors aren't playing the same kind of match. Killers are playing against an squad of 4 and needs to kill at least 3 people to get his MMR up. Survivors are playing each one an individual battle against the killer and doesn't matters how many of their partners dies, if he survives alone he won and his MMR would go up. So:
Killers = 1vs4, needs to kill 3 to win.
Survivors = 1/1/1/1vs1, needs to just escape itself to win.
That's why, again, a 60% killrate is 40% winrate for survivors, but not 60% of winrate for killers.
[...] considering YOUR take on it that I don't agree with.
This is not "MY" take, it is how the ranking system of the game works (and I know that it works this way because you told me and I looked up what the devs said). So what you are not agreeing to is to math. Stop the copium and accept the math, my friend.
Again. You are deliberately ignoring things. Killer DOES NOT loose 60% of games. Killer DOES NOT LOOSE MMR when he kills 2. So one more time. Killer looses 40% of games, while survivor 60%. Explain to me WHY THIS IS FAIR? I still haven't got 1 sensible reply ABOUT LOOSING. I am not saying WINNING. So again. Why 60% losses vs 40% losses is fair in your eyes. And how do you still not get that killer loss rate is NOT 60%? Ignore everything else and try to answer this 1 point I wrote you like million times.
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If he ever gets 24m TR, I want him to not be able to fully utilize M&A. We have hiding killers and all of them don't shoot. There's a good reason for that.
If you want super easy games, go play against bots.
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I would like to know my own number and ideally see other players numbers after the match.
Showing the numbers before the match would just result in lobby shopping (especially for killer - that is hidden from survivors, but can still peak at them)
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And how would you balance him so that he will not just become OP?
I agree with you, that he has probably the worst addons out of all killers in game, but as you have said - he's still solid A-tier. Something has got to give here...
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I have yet to have a single fun game against this killer.
I thought being facecamped by bubba is bad, but then came the knight. I thought foghting knight for his 3gen is bad, but then came skull merchant. Now I am starting to be afraid complain about her...
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@Severing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372382#Comment_3372382
I do not know of any killer where the optimal strategy is to run into the open, also known as a dead zone, unless I misunderstand what kind of open space you refer to. Mid chase hiding is already unreliable, the killer can judge where you should be based on scratch marks, sound cues, your movement speed and where they last saw you.
Optional Shadowborn would not eliminate the option of hiding, only make it somewhat weaker in specific scenarios. Shadowborn would not guarantee that Oni would even be able to hit you considering they have a limited turn radius which varies according to their sensitivity, even if they can turn, they might just miss either way. Shadowborn is 15 degrees, it is roughly 17% wider, it is not that ridiculous of an increase.
So, it would weaken hiding mid chase, but you still have the other options that are more often than not, better than hiding mid-chase: not every loop is unsafe against Oni, windows are still viable and you can still pallet-stun the killer which may even cancel the power, this is hardly being out of options.
Also, most Oni players that I have seen will opt for other perks over Shadowborn, I cannot remember ever seeing a tournament where the Oni had Shadowborn, I do however remember one where both teams' Oni had 3 slowdowns and Bamboozle, a perk that actually completely negates windows when activated. If tournament players whose goal is to achieve the best possible result opt for other perks over Shadowborn, is it not possible that Shadowborn is simply not that good of a perk?
Most tournament Nurses and Spirits and even Blights do not use Shadowborn either.
The point is, Shadowborn likely does not negate as many options nor is as powerful as you are concerned, and other perks or killer powers negate far more than it ever could or just provide a much more tangible impact on the match to the point where Shadowborn or a perk of its ilk is rendered irrelevant. Seriously, aura perks weaken stealth more than Shadowborn ever will. Additionally, the people that do use Shadowborn either always use it on a certain killer or never do as the increase on FOV makes you appear faster and objects to seem further away, causing you to misjudge distance and velocity compared to your old FOV. If any of the players who do not use it tried to, it is probable that they would be adversely impacted rather than positively in the start, this alone will likely make some people maintain the old FOV even if they could make it wider.
yes. I am not talking about literal deadzone open places of map. I tried to specify what I mean in the bracket (so anything that does not have pallet or very very close window).
As for hiding (and this goes to @AFKbyDaylight ) - u r not trying to loose killer and get out of chase. You just try to waste time to immediately after go back the direction the killer came in. You would be surprised how often these things work (against specifically Oni and Blight at least).
And I am not saying shadowborn is OP. But same as bamboozle - it takes away things survivors can do. And that is fine if it costs you a perk slot (so you can do those things in one game but can't on the other). Problem is if it becomes basekit...
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@TurboTOne said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372076#Comment_3372076
I think that these Killers are more a Symptom of the current times. The Devs see that People are annoyed at Gens being done too quickly so what do they do ? They give us Killer who help Protect Gens better.
Same as back then when Killer said that Survivors are too strong with looping so they made a few Antiloop Killer like Clown and Doctor.
But still, just because Knight and Skullmerchant are horrible to face when they have a 3 Gen, doesn't mean that Toolboxes and Brand New Parts are ok. They are still way too Powerful and need a kind of Nerf.
Im also pretty sure that many Killer just decided to play these Boring Playstyles, because they feel like they don't have a chance at winning if they don't play that way.
Maybe People would play differently if they didn't feel the need to play a certain way. Cause why 3 Gen right at the start and have a boring Game if you don't need to ?
But it works the other way around. I like to bring my medkit (brown one without extra charges). The way this game is going, I will soon start to bring commodius + BNP + extra charges. Why? Because the killer is just obnoxious. And if nobody does anything about him + she becomes even more popular (there are many cries to make her stronger), it's eather full genrush build, or goodbye to the game. Because 30+mins of holding M1 to no avail is just NOT fun.
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@MarKrTheDemigod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372331#Comment_3372331
It could get some additional effect. E.g. faster healing from Dying to Injured state or the killer's aura could be visible to you for the whole duration of healing, not only after the healing is done. It could also provide extra BPs in altruism category.
Perks could get complete rework if needed, I really don't care. As long as the perks become more useful in general.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372333#Comment_3372333
Nieche perks are obviously a thing and should remain such. But I would give to such perks some weaker side-effect that is not very strong but would provide some benefit to any killer, not only the one who uses the nieche build for it.
I would argue that if a perk is only viable for 2 killers on the whole roster, the perk is designed poorly. Even here some changes could be made. I think the main problem with Thana is that many killers are not fast enough to keep the stacks on survivors and so they don't get much value out of it. E.g. it could be that each time a unique survivor loses a health state, you gain a stack and each of these stacks passively expires after X seconds. It would still incentivize dividing hits among as many survivors as possible but its value would not be hampered by the speed of which you can hit survivors or by survivors healing all the time.
But again, I really don't care how the perks would get changed as long as they become at least decent in general.
Might be I have picked wrong perk to illustrate the thing. So I will try again with better example - say iron maiden. Great perk (again - I am not saying it's OP) on huntress and trickster, fine perk for legion and artist. Very much bad perk on everyone else. Should they buff the perk? Like sure - they could buff it a little - but that would make it only bad perk on most killers and borderline requirement on killers like huntress (reducing build diversity).
But overall I agree with you. If they could say redesign thanatophobia so, that it's usable on everyone (without making it broken on those 2 killers), that would be a good thing. Overall I really like the whole topic of this thread - I am just pointing out possible edge case.
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@Severing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372337#Comment_3372337
I am afraid I could not comprehend your statement, would you like to elaborate?
When you play against Oni that has active power - a lot of times best strategy is not to run "to the open" (which in this case is everything that does not provide large enough curve, has no window or pallet) or try to go behind a single tree and so on, but instead hide behind a corner or go into small gap between wall and some obstacle (say tree hugging a wall or rock) and so on. The idea is, that the killer will not notice you immediately and will not have enough time to react before he goes over you - which means he needs to cancel his movement and re-adjust. BUT - if said Oni notices this, then he will just hit with your power resulting in immediate down. So by making FOV larger, and Oni will notice much easier - which takes away one of few options how to counter him when he's in power.
This same thing is true also especially against blight and to a lesser degree against spirit, nurse and wesker (same principle, it's just they can adjust/reorient better - especially spirit).