Gandor
Gandor
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Not to mention, that the game is not balanced for multiple killer powers. There could be new insane synergies like spirit/twins/oni+plague/legion. Same thing with perks (16 stack thana?) and addons.
Such a mode would be too insane to actually balance at least a little bit. This would take too much devs time.
Like sure. If it was easy to do, it would be fun to try... But it isn't easy by no means
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394651#Comment_3394651
-"Where does that stupid notion of not enough killers come from?"
Every day for DBD follows the same pattern.
- In the morning all the SWF groups go to bed so more people play killer. This is when survivor mains play killer. This is when you have a guaranteed survivor BP bonus.
- In mid afternoon survivor mains hop on and the bonus flips over - but sometimes it goes back and forth because once again : it's not "SWF central" time yet.
- Once evening rolls around it's 100% killer basically all night until morning.
IDK but from what I can tell it flips quite a lot during nights. And is constantly on survivor at least until 3pm (after which it will probably still be on survivors, but it might be not sometimes).
Overall if I fully randomly open DBD, it's much more likely to see it on survivor. That's why I just don't understand the people that say "there's not enough killers".
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This patch is still a HUGE win for killers. Don't ask for even more. 3 regression perks nerf is much less then loosing self-reliance of heals, DH and longer usage of medkits.
For survivors the best thing that could happen would be if this patch got scrapped altogether
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394947#Comment_3394947
Which is a problem with power creep which the game already suffers from a bit.
I agree that those weaker perks should be buffed tho, but its an easier and quicker task to nerf the ones that are overtuned.
I think both should be done. Making all perks as strong as say bloodhound would mean perks are mostly useless - which means they don't create extra diversity. Which makes the game boring.
On the other hand I agree that if a few perks are way stronger then others, then they feel like mandatory. Meaning weaker perks might as well not exist.
For these 2 reasons I agree that strong perks need nerf (and I agree with power creep), but I think weak perks need buffs just as much
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394550#Comment_3394550
The problem was perks like Dead Hard are not B or A tier, they are SSS+ tier and needed to be destroyed.
Are you implying the game is super killer sided and the only thing that was holding killers back = survivors having those 39% escape rate was a perk that just got severely limited? Because having SSS+ perk and still having 39% escape rate suggests things...
Or maybe DH actually didn't work most of the time instead..
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394550#Comment_3394550
That isn't necessarily possible considering that some of those buffed/reworked perks would still be better than others. Doing so would on average make the average perk better. A current A tier perk that remains untouched would eventually become obsolete and fall down the tier list because more and more perks would be taking its place.
This is already something thats happened in the past with 2 perks which used to be meta and are now barely seen, A Nurse's Calling and Whispers. They never even got changed, (except for Nurse's, but it still remained meta even after the nerf) its just that more and more information perks got added which were stronger than these 2. Eventually they just became obsolete and are now considered about B tier perks, when they used to be S tier.
Which means that's a problem with new perks being too strong. I think it's good idea to make most of the perks about as strong/viable as other perks. Like why is there territorial imperative when there are all the other info perks that give consistently more value (even in specific build)? You can outright delete those bad perks. Or you can buff them to actually make them valuable (at least conditionally). At minimum let the aura linger for like "very long time".
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@FFirebrandd said:
That's why I want the Permanent Broken downside to move from No Mither to Dead Hard.
Now it announces its presence, and it being uncounterable sometimes is much less frustrating and game warping because DH isn't a 3rd health state... it's their 2nd.
And I want killers to be no quicker then 105%. Is it unreasonable? Sure it is. So is your proposition.
Anyway it's besides the point. DH usage will steeply go down over next month. Ppl will soon start to complain about sprint burst anyway
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394677#Comment_3394677
Currently, people average about 3 DH per match, which is 1 per health state. It is so very rare I ever see a survivor use DH more than 3 times per match. If someone uses DH, you keep chasing them so they don't get their DH back.
The original PTB DH, where people could easily get 0 activations, is a massive nerf, and should be the version that goes live. I would be fine with that version. This new DH is a huge un-nerf compared to the original PTB DH, and shouldn't go live, because this game deserves a massive nerf at the same intensity as the original PTB DH.
Just wait and see. The fact that you were not in MMR range where people use DH to help other people that are not in chase does not mean that everybody shares your experience. I am pretty sure there will be VERY considerable dip in usage rate. The perk lost huge amount of utility. It means other perks are now without question much more appealing choice.
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Well. According to some killer mains here, there are 1000s of survivors for each killer, meaning there are 0 problems creating good team of survivors that are all at same skill level against any killer /s
This update will be super tough on all survivors. No matter how much some killers complain about OC/CoB/PR. I just hope devs will rebalance it again next patch.
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@Carth said:
Yeah 'hard nerfs" to survivors like what? Taking dead hard from 3 uses to 2? Bringing CoH back to 100%? Was that same style of tweaking used for pop/ruin/thana/CI/eruption/call of brine/overcharge/tinkerer?
In fact can you name me a single killer perk that's been "nerfed" in that same style? Or do they all get completely dumpstered and drop to bottom tier perks?
Chill. You will not be seeing CoH ever again. Speed bonus will not even refund time investment in traveling to boon, booning totem and finding it in a first place. The perk is nuked into oblivion. It's going to be about as used as blood rush...
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On survivor bg player, saboteur, breakout and one of heal perks (botany, we will make it, inner healing, maaaaybe pharmacy if they make the time a little more reasonable).
On killer depends on which one, but it will cycle between nowhere to hide+dragon's grip alternative darkness revealed+bamboozle, pain res and corrupt. Also jolt is quite underrated IMO. The fact that gens that explode give notification makes the perk good info too. I will be using it on most m1 killers
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394618#Comment_3394618
You do realize that very few people continue to regularly log in to play killer right?
If there is no viable gen regression then what happens if a big chunk of killers like me who have been here since the beginning just stop playing.
It would be one thing if they said : oh by the way all gen rush perks are getting the same nerf as CoB/OC with a 70% reduction in effect AND toolboxes are now sabotage only AND we made all the healing slow.
What is going to stop the gen rush? There's literally nothing viable left and the devs have done nothing to stop the ~40 second generator repair rush with Hyperfocus.
We know there is a massive imbalance of survivor to killer ratio thanks to the BP bonuses. We know it was the same before the 6.1 meta shake up that was supposed to make more people want to play killer. We actually have leaked data from people pinging the DBD servers where in some cases we had 45 killers or fewer in queue with 4500 survivors.
Killer has always been kept one step away from being miserable. But they can't just destroy every viable gen regression perk if they want people to keep playing killer.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394623#Comment_3394623
-"Why do people keep saying Eruption is dead?"
Because it went to 10% reduction and the survivors could immediately start working on the generator again. Previously it lost 10% immediately and then it would lose another 20% while that player could not work on it.
When you look at player usage for Eruption it's down in the 6% range but it was supposed to become meta - oops they missed the mark.
-"you just have to be playing a killer that can cycle between those gens"
If DBD is moving to the point where only Blight and Nurse are viable then I'm out.
I was barely hanging on playing older killers. I was still having fun vs most of the 5000-10000 hour survivors I played against as "weaker" killers with the limited regression we had left.
Interesting. Considering healing changes and how much easier the killer will have it after the patch, at minimum me personally is changing sides. I will still play some survivor, but probably more killer, because butchering of CoH, huge reduce to medkits and even DH limitation (this last one bothers me only indirectly, I wasn't using it for a long time, but ppl that did used to save me with it sometimes)...
Also. Where does that stupid notion of not enough killers come from? If you pick random time during a day, chances are incentives will be on survivor. And the chances are very good. 60% killrate after all. Queue times also match this. Maybe check incentives also any other time during day and not just at 7pm...
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Most of blights already use the perk even if it costs then a perk slot. The advantage is huge. It shouldn't be base kit
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393708#Comment_3393708
And you know that because you have a crystal ball that tell the future, right? Because obviously, being able to reset all the team in 12 second without the need of using items won't be useful for a coordinated full SWF premade or anything.
Anyway, again, that's a CoH "problem", but if you want to explain why altruistic healing wasn't a problem so it didn't need to be higher as self healing, I'm all ears.
Yes. It's 12s, because survivors got teleport..... Again. If you take into account all the factors, you would realize it's much better to just do gens and if you happen to find someone, heal "slowly" so that you don't need to do all those lengthy preperations.
I said so about blood rush. Look and see how this will also be true for CoH.
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I don't like this idea. It kinda forces ppl to bring medkits just in case this new boon is in play. Terrible for soloQ and at most OK for SWF.
CoH we are going to get will be bad, but at least it will have some niche (it will be about as good as potential energy) - to reset multiple survivors at once. Your version just makes no sense to me ever (reliance on item that was by far already strongest and possibly still is, not even getting that 1 heal out of it without help + hemorrage as counter, need to find totem and boon).
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393936#Comment_3393936
Firstly, unless you're in a ridiculously far corner of the map, the odds of you being 44 meters away from the boon in the middle of the map is incredibly low. Secondly, even outside of the time efficiency, getting healed is pretty important to stop most killers from a potential snowball win. So doing the heal faster will be worth it just for less snowball potentialand less interrupt potential. Especially if the survivors can turn the game into a war of attrition. CoH will give a SWF a massive edge in that sort of game while killers are losing their war of attrition perks this patch.
You are right. Problem is, that with CoH the heal will take longer than without it. If even 1 of the survivors is 16m away from their meeting point, you waste more time then you gain by +100% altruism. This disregards need to find totem, bless it and that it occupies perk slot.
Just wait and see. CoH will be totally dead in a month or two (it might be semi-usable for soloQ or no comms SWF just because of aura). Same way as people complained how blood rush is OP and look how "every lobby has 4x of them". It's just inefficient now. Especially for coordinated SWF that don't need to see aura to know where injured person is...
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CoH is dead. It has long setup time, requires travel there and back and saves you only 8s. In most games it's going to net in more time spent then saved. But it also takes perk slot...
The only place where the perk has any sense is no comms SWF or soloQ - just because of aura.
Overall I would be surprised if the perk got higher usage then say reactive healing.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393865#Comment_3393865
"Full benefit" when it could not do even a fraction of it's full regression depending on the moment you use it? Are you sure about that?
But alright, I will play: What other Scourge Hook perk of the 4 is more dependent on RNG than PR and why being useful in 3º hook have anything to do with RNG? Put me an example and explain me why. Here, so you don't even have to look for the perks:
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Scourge_Hook_Perks?so=search
It's very simple. Take single survivor (as other survivors are the same thing - so ypu can simplify). To get full proc out of PR, you had to be able to 3x get that person to hook. For any other scourge, the debuff was applied on unhook, so each of those could proc at most 2x. Now for new PR, you get full 25% regression no matter if you are able to get that person on 1st, 2nd or even 3rd hook. Any one of those 3 instances will give you full benefit. Meaning you have 3 tries instead of having to get correct hook 3x in a row. This is quite a benefit from RNG-wise to get scourges.
Sure. Overall new PR is weaker then old PR, because potential and attainable 45% is more then "easy" 25%. But again. The chance to get full value is definitely higher with new PR then it is right now and the difference is substantial. The only real limiting RNG factor is no longer on having scourge hook at all, but more in line of what you have already said - if there's non-blocked gen that has at least 25%. This might not be so, but it's very likely that at the beginning during your first chase this will almost always be true.
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393820#Comment_3393820
Yes I do.
Step 1: burn eyre of crows offering.
Step 2: boon the top of Main.
Step 3: have easily accessible, very fast heals for everyone the rest of the game because it's pretty easy to get close to erye's main and it's not worth it for the Killer to go up there to temporarily turn it off.
again. How much sense does it make going up, boon there and then move every time to main just to save 8s? You will spend more time every time... Net benefit negative
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Looking at this thread - can we revert proposed DH nerf so people will stop complain about SB? It was absolutely no problem for anyone until killers succeeded in convincing devs to nerf DH. And suddenly, SB is a huge problem for the game. Talk about moving goal posts...
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393834#Comment_3393834
Again, "one use per chase" is what you have to deal with most of the time even now. If you have chased someone enough time for them to use DH most than probably you won't drop the chase either way, whatever because them using it means that you have cornered them so much that you know you would catch him again soon, or because you now know that them don't have it and your next hit is guaranteed. Nobody is saying that there isn't exceptions to this, but again, in most cases you would deal with DH once per chase already.
And DH have many counters for most killers that don't inflict Deep Wound, yes: Waiting it out so they have the chance to reach a window or a pallet or they getting it in a fast hit after 5 seconds waiting anyway whatever it is because godlike reaction time, lag or auto DH being used. So many counters.
And why you would be "stubbornly committed to resfusing to ever see a DH proc"? You said it yourself! Because you don't tunnel the unhooked survivor and they get DH, it would become an "omnipresent threat in chase" that is a counter-of-all-trades to the point it can literally counter the damage proc of The Trickster knifes among other things! Are you really making that question when you literally give yourself the answer?
And this patch, completely, a killer nerf. They destroyed regression to the point where maxing it out with CoB + OC you would need 4:30 minutes to fully regress a gen (before, 2:40), and DH would still be the exact same problem it is now unless you tunnel. Those changes was done to solve 3 genning to compensate for the healing as it would be more easy for killers to get downs, so the new game balance by mechanics would be "Survivors pressure killers by doing gens but can't reset damage to nullify injure pressure, and Killers pressure survivors by hurting them but can't regress gens to nullify gens done pressure".
Now? Killer can't pressure survivors by regressing the gen not injuring them, but survivors can still let go the gen to go healing at lighting speed without having to worry about their gens regressing anymore. Not only that, but they can recover the time lost healing easy (12 seconds spent healing another one with a medkit is recoverable in 9.41 seconds by those two survivors working on a gen). So, now gen rushing is strong than ever as gen regression is no more, while coordinated SWF would have it more easy than ever.
With this said, again, this is what this patch looks like "in papper". Maybe when it come out things aren't that bad... but hell they look so bad in the theory.
IDK, but most annoying (and fun from surv side) part about DH is when other survivors come and takes hit for chased one with DH (this is the most clutch thing and something not possible with other exhaustion perks - save background player with combination of flashlight/toolbox, but bg player pays for it by not having anything in chase). With new patch this will just not happen, or it will be very costly for that person in next chase.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393782#Comment_3393782
Tell me you don't play killer or use PR without telling me you don't play killer or use PR.
Many times, when carrying the downed survivor to the Scourge Hook would just happen that survivors complete 1-2 gens just when you are going to hook, making the effect proc on the next gen with most charges that could be as low as 1%. This is something out of your control and that can happen at pure chance, not because survivor wasn't doing anything. Now it would be even worst as you only have 4 chances to "get a good hit", instead of everytime you would down someone (and RNGesus have blessed you with reachable scourge hook around the map).
And as a killer that his main build has PR as his only regression perk right now, I can tell you there is a world between getting lucky with Scourge Hook placements or not. If you don't get as much Scourge Hooks as you can, you would not do any noticeable regression.
Also, you saw 1 case and then all the cases are just like what that streamer lived. We all know that's how reality works.
PR is least dependent on RNG out of all scourge hooks rn. Because it's the only one, that will give you full benefit no matter if you use it on 1st, 2nd or 3rd hook. Most other scourges get value only from 1st AND 2nd. Meaning effectively the RNG aspect is 1/2 for PR compared to other scourges.
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393756#Comment_3393756
They're complaining because it isn't a big win for killers anymore.
Sure, medkits got nerfed, but they'll still be pretty strong. A addonless brown medkit will still save the team 8s and temporarily make the survivor holding it self sufficient. Throw on gel dressings and a heal speed add on and it'll be probably all the healing that survivor needs and save more than 16s.
On the topic of CoH... it is now 100% a dead perk for solos. The issue is that going against solos aren't the games killers worry about. They worry about facing coordinated SWFs... and the fact that CoH literally had its healing buff multiplied by 4 is crazy and hands a new tool to SWFs on a silver platter. That'll be an absolute massive loss for Killers when it does show up. Much like old Object of Obsession was.
I said so in other threads too. But think about it. What does CoH do for SWF? Aura read is pointless, because they can call out where they are. So what is left? +100% altruistic healing. Or said in a different way, 8s heal instead of 16s.
8s saved is not bad. But now if you have CoH on different side of map, that means long travel time. Basically if any of the 2 survivors that want to heal need to travel for at least 4s/heal, then there's 0 benefit from CoH (4s there, 4s back resulting in 8s).
Now this still isn't like very good perk but at this point it's still not bad. But you should factor in now booning (14s) and finding a totem (anything between 2s and minutes).
So after considering all this. Do you really thing that coordinated SWF will get any value out of it? Don't you think that perhaps it will be no comms SWF and soloQ that will get value out of it, because aura will tell your teammates healing is requested (cutting down search-teammate time considerably)?
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100% disagree. Speaking strictly as a person that would like more wins on survivor, I would be totally for forgetting this patch. Overall healing nerf (medkits, CoH) is by far MUCH more impactful then regression perks nerf.
But I understand the need to go away from 3gen camping and going more for chase. Still. I think I will be playing more killer after this patch, because this patch is just another survivor nerf patch where killers have higher killrate then fair 50% anyway.
It's so mindboggling that so many people complain about the patch where it's very clear that this patch is another big win for killer side.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393695#Comment_3393695
This has ultimately just made solo q even weaker, and SWF will not be as affected as they somehow "COMPENSATED" (why the heck do they compensate at all lol) self healing nerfs by making altruistic healing lot better.
The only real positive is ultimately dead hard and just dead hard, calling it huge positive would be ridiculous.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393698#Comment_3393698
Ah yes, the bonus that goes 100% on survivor when survivor que takes 5 minutes and killer que takes 10 seconds.
Interesting. Because in my experience you just swapped killer and survivor in queue times (most of the time during a day. Evenings I will grant you killer queues are better and incentives represent that too
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393720#Comment_3393720
I don't know that they did make altruistic healing all that much better, personally.
100% bonus on CoH is a little scary, but survivors already had access to that exact number on We'll Make It, which arguably has less requirement- it's a timer after an unhook, but that's arguably not as restrictive as a specific radius that requires setup. We'll have to see how it settles on live, but I have a suspicion the only people who are gonna use CoH to any huge effect are going to be super coordinated SWF types, and it's not as though they only have that option for getting that value if they want it.
Besides, how would that translate to killers leaving? A handful of matches may be a little harder, that's worst case scenario, and all other matches have the very impactful medkit + CoH nerfs.
I seriously doubt super coordinated SWF will EVER use CoH. +100% speed means 8s less per heal. That's not bad on face value, but if you take into account travel time, it means that if any of 2 survivors need to move for longer then 4s (4s there + 4s back), then the net result is pure negative (provided one heal is necessary, if 2 heals need to be done, then it's 8s).
But this totally disregards booning time, finding totem and possibility that it will be squashed. You at minimum need 2heals 0 travel time to at least theoretically make up the time of just setting up the boon. That's quite an investment.
The only group where CoH would make sense is no comms SWF or maybe soloQ - and both of these just because of aura reading inclusion (something that coordinated SWF just don't need).
Overall, when things settle down (people try the new perk out a few times), I seriously doubt the perk will get higher usage then say reactive healing has right now
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393415#Comment_3393415
because it took 8 seconds for you to heal without needing the team's help with med-kit and stacked with coh, denying the pressure of the killer at any time of the match, specially against mid-tier killers
But that was a problem with medkits and CoH allowing self healing (now solved), not an explanation of why altruistic healing is not a problem.
Taking 16s to heal altruistically (or more, if you take into account mangled, hemorrhagic etc) or around 10~12 altruistic with coh/med-kit, is ok for you to take the focus off from the gens (-2 or 3 survivor healing each other), then you differentiate self-heal from altruistic for both to be used correctly and tactically
That's the thing, they buffed CoH so now it would take 8 seconds to heal someone altruistic, a full SWF can reset all the damage technically in 16 seconds (two survivors healing: 2 c/s + 100% = 4 c/s = 4 seconds to heal one survivor).
And if we take in count real scenarios, altruistic healing happened when the injured survivor didn't have a medkit available to heal himself, so normally he would stay injured until finding another survivor whatever it is in a gen, crossing path with him, hook healing if the killer is distracted or a coordinated SWF resetting the damage on purpose so no travel time need to be counted.
So, how is altruistic healing not a problem when it would take from 8 to 16 seconds approx with just 1 survivor healing and 4 to 8 seconds with 2 to heal other survivor? More so taking in count that time can be recovered in a gen in much less time if those survivors group up to go to a gen (2: 16 charges in 9.41 seconds. 3: 8 charges in 3.80 seconds).
I will tell you a secret. CoH will not be used in comms SWF like almost never. 8s is not enough time saved if you have to consider 2 people need to travel to it (so if the distance for at least 1 person is 4s longer then their middle point, then CoH makes no sense). This does not even begin to factor search totem time, blessing time and possible need to do that again.
The only people that will be using the perk are MAYBE some soloQ, that will just blindly bet on the fact, that other people will actually decide to go and help them when they see their aura...
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@Bjorkenny said:
You want feedback, pretending killers do not exist in the game? There you are:
- The DH change accomplishes nothing, encouraging tunneling even more: as many people pointed out, you now conveniently HAVE to hit and follow the unhooked person to deny their acquired perk.
- The new altruistic healing will make SWF teams even more unfair. Between new addons and 100% COH speedup, 2 people playing together can heal in 6 seconds.
- While you literally DESTROYED whole killers strategies within 2 patches, gen rushing is stronger than ever. People will change medikits with toolboxes and we dont have strong regression perks anymore.
- Pain Resonance is a joke.
- You nerfed gen regression perks because the new healing changes had to become the way of slowing down a match. Now it's been reconsidered on the survivor side, but killers still get the heavy nerfs. Like, #########? Do you do it on purpose? Slugging and camping will skyrocket and matches will end in 4 minutes.
I usually support the game on all the social medias, but this time it sounds like Bhvr is joking. Killers are already massively changing role, going afk to lower the mmr or leaving the game. There are 2 whole subs on reddit to describe this, apart from the queue speaking alone, and they make gen rushing and swf even harder to face?
Good luck on this. We dont have the power and the numbers to review bomb like the survivors.
Don't worry. There will be enough killers. I won't be playing much survivor any more and instead play killer, because the nerfs hit survivor way more heavy (and you will see it very well once the patch goes live).
Healing still got WAY more complicated on survivor side. DH is still much worse. CoH still makes no sense. SC takes still too long (this is true from 6.1).
The only thing killers lost were holding 3gen ad infinitum while survivors lost whole self reliance and quite a hefty part of efficiency. Killer will be even easier then it is now.
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Thank you
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Where are the changes? Can't find it
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3391555#Comment_3391555
Survivors would probably complain if it did both, and then BHVR would probably respond by nerfing the overnerfing the perk so it's worse than it currently is.
I think you are creating straw mans. At minimum me personally would not be opposed for the perk to gain SHORT aura read (1-2s) in addition to current effect. The perk is quite bad with current state. But if it had aura + combined with lethal, it could be decent (but still not oppressive)
Plus this perk could be perfect counter to distortion, but would still have counter to that counter (calm spirit does not distract crows, so no aura read should appear). Sounds like a reasonable buff to bad perks across the board
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@HellyeaNonoobspls said:
You do not bring any valid argument, that you are bad and that you do not find interest in the perks it is one thing. "Just because something is used extremely often doesn't mean it's op. There are many more factors than that." Well if something is used, it's because the player finds an advantage in it and there is undeniably a link between use and power, if you don't see it I invite you to go back to the tier list, you'll see that the best perks are the most used. So it's not as simple as that, but it remains much more coherent with my point of view than yours.
Second, that you're bad and you don't have the ability to improve your looping ability with that perk is one thing, but for the majority of players who use it that's the case, and that's is besides all its interest, (At one time, everyone plays it but to listen to you it is useless, must be serious two minutes..."I'm a bad survivor and just because I know there's a window, there's a palette, etc. doesn't improve my looping ability" this sentence is bad Faith such that you can't be taken seriously or else you have the Qi of a mussel no offense, I don't know what else to say.be coherent and honest in your speech) It serves to know for a average player or leave at the beginning of his hunt, and identify a few elements to have a sustainable minimum hunt, it is on paper "giga op" and once again consistent with the usage stats. To say that it does not increase the ability to miss is stupidity, I have seen friends who have never lasted 2 minutes in a chase, run killers on 4 people, the perks is known for that, and you gonna make me not increase magnifying power for an average player, please see, be honest.
I don't advocate for/against the perk. I stopped using it after first 100 hrs in game.
But the guy is right - just knowing about pallet/window does not mean you are safe. Take into account say new thrash tile from autoheaven. There's both window and pallet. But the chance killer gets hit in there is like 90%. Because there are no reasonable structures around it. But if the killer mindlessly follows and swings very predictably - never doing any mindgame or prediction, even this tile can under this specific conditions favor survivor more.
Meaning a lot of things can be played around. Just knowledge of window is not enough. And if it's not god pallet/thrash pallet, then it's about skill of both sides who will actually win (and windows does not really make that much difference).
Anyway, the best usage from WoO is IMO in playing soloQ or no comms SWF. With this perk you know which part of map is already exhausted, so you as a survivor can try to go in a different part of map. That is in my opinion also the reason why the perk is so popular.
But as I said - I don't care about the perk much. As a survivor I never use it. And as a killer - I usually abuse it against survivors (see my previous post). So if anything, I would consider it a mild nerf against me as a killer when I play killer (but I play survivor more, so I don't care that much).
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@[Deleted User] said:
"Tunneling is at an all time high as there is no punishment for tunneling. And while in some situations tunneling is necessary, getting tunneled out of the match at 4-5 gens is just annoying."
So something you claim is necessary at times you want punished? Sounds contradictive to me.
killers should get some kills. Killer should always 4K. You see the difference? That should answer it...
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3391166#Comment_3391166
There is no counter for flashlight saves, yes this require skill but this is oppresive mechanic.
what? There's no counter? :D well. Let's agree to disagree then. Because facing the wall is the most primitive case. Having map awareness (knowing where nobody is going to be) is the second. Chasing away survivors in vicinity is 3rd.
Also I am usually very happy to see multiple beamers in my lobby. It means, that gens will not be done. It means survivors will probably waste time following me every time. So every successful hook is much more valuable then any hook in a game where beamers are not present.
Sure sometimes I do loose my price thanks to a very good outplay from survivors, but overall I can always track it to my mistake or some genuine good play from survivors. Still I would say time-wise it's usually beneficial for me as a killer, that survivors bring flashlights (because of cumulative time wasted) - provided matchmaking did not screw up bad (but in that case they don't need to bring any item usually).
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I like the concept. But not details of it.
At minimum I am sure that Bubba under no definition belongs to dash category. Without addons, he's not even quicker then any other killer and having him being able to instadown is not really different from ghostface stalk into instadown (Bubba can't instadown reliably as there's charge time). He belongs more into flex IMO.
Also I think this would create too many constraints on rebalancing. Did you notice, that you inserted 3rd strongest killer in whole game (spirit) in a category where buffs are encouraged? By this change only you created THE strongest killer in the game. Also your passive gives them away immediately - so it's direct buff to survivors instead (beware, there's a stealth killer - don't give him easy 1st hit - you see the fog/dark realm)...
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3391161#Comment_3391161
Most of the time, yes
When are they not fine?
The only case I can think of is if the survivor group made out of 4 very experienced player get to play against new player - denying him every hook. But that is not really a problem of flashlights, it's more of a problem of matchmaking.
(I am taking into account, that locker saves are no longer possible) - so did I miss something?
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As a survivor main, I don't really agree with this post.
1, 8 stacks indeed take a lot of time. Observant obsession should have enough time (and it's quite noticeable after 2 stacks), that STBFL is in play. Even if killer has M2 that can damage to circumvent loosing stacks, he can't use that one while carrying someone to the hook.
2, I think there's just 1 killer, that really needs the perk and nobody else NEEDS it. That killer is Deathslinger. Nobody else is in a situation where the game can't be played without the perk (even DS can be played without it and win, he's just much weaker).
3, in your example you mentioned strong killers that have very good synergy with the perk - and I think you missed the mark in here with some killers. Like Wesker is IMO bad example - you want to maximize your slowdown which means you want to M2 over M1 every time possible = you will not have stacks. Similarly Nemesis wants to be T2 ASAP and going for T3, because his whip is much more powerful then M1 (provided survivors are already infected), hag should not chase as she is 110% killer - she should trap survivors. Her chasing survivor (getting value of low CD from stacked STBFL) is playing her wrong (meaning you will be loosing a lot).
4, It's true that once it's fully stacked, it's much easier to camp (or even tunnel) with the perk. But that's like intended behavior. It's like saying adrenaline is unfair, because it provides strong effect IF survivors get to an endgame AND are being chased while injured. You just have to make sure to not come to that situation. Or if you do, then make sure to get out of that situation in a reasonable way (send obsession to bodyblock and stuff).
That being said, I think it would be reasonable to:
a, give soloQ a little buff against this perk where obsession would indeed get some kind of hint the perk is in the play once say 4 stacks are accumulated. In soloQ there's a very good possibility that obsession will just not see the hit and never get a chance to know they should take hits.
b, if healing nerfs go thru, adjust this perk a lot to make it much worse. Taking hits as an obsession would no longer be viable counter against this perk, as getting back health would take waaaay too long. Meaning the perk would become all benefits for no risk (it would even be worth it to hit obsession, because it would take longer to heal then to get those stacks back).
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When I play killer, I just love windows users. They are very distinct and very easy to identify. I love going behind those and very quickly (because they usually throw the pallet without looping it) throw it down creating a dead zone for next survivor.
What I suggest you do is follow the guy in one part of the map (it must contain at least 1 unfinished generator, preferably more, or alternatively it must be one of the high-traffic areas - otherwise leave the chase). Let him drop 3-5 pallets and break them. Now you have created a spot where even best loopers will stand no chance to loop you.
Once this is over you have 2 choices - try to play around pallets not breaking them and downing said survivor (if you are good enough), or alternatively leave said windows user for later. But the important thing is, that you have created a spot on the map, where every chase makes a lot of sense and even said windows user will go down if he ever returns there. Just don't follow said WoO user until he clears whole map with you. That is recipe for disaster
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I don't feel like arguing. But I see you read it whole. You know why. I don't need to explain. Even 6.1 had some survivor buffs and killer nerfs
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@Technature said:
Look, can we please get back to the main point that is The Game is NOT a killer sided map AT ALL?
Again. It is. Take a build and get the offering. You will win most of the games. Like vast majority. But you need one of those killers (quick breaking killer + slowdowns or slowdown killer w pallet build). And it has been obnoxios.
But sure - if you happen to come to the map as Freddy unprepared, then I agree - RIP. Otherwise, RIP survivors
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@Blueberry said:
Total tinfoil hat here but I feel like because of a lack of killers they’ve been steadily behind the scenes widening the mmr ranges to keep the queue times short as that’s the number one priority. So if that was the case it could explain this.
Not enough killers? That would imply incentives are broken. Most of the time I see incentives to play survivor. The only time this is not true is a few hours in the evening
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Lerys and midwitch are much stronger. For mirror meyers u can always heal at one of god pallets or at big drop or at the top middle or any other of numerious spots. I have 0 issues w meyers specifically on this map (and tombstone piece meyers is as bad in this map as in any other map - I would even argue this map can counter him better then average).
Anyway - I think meyers is not even trully capable of the map abuse I was talking about.
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I like 60s too. She is still too strong at 3gen. And I don't mind her being a little stronger in chase instead
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@BlueHorkew said:
Honestly, when i started killer felt way easier then survivor.
Like for the first like 5 games, i played Wraith with no perks or add-ons and won all of them. I thought wraith was really OP and killer was the easiest thing ever xD
And this was when survivor was way stronger and killers way weaker.
I guess its a low mmr thing.
And I am still lor mmr according to your experience. Like in my experience - it always feels like you have to go mountains to win as survivor - and yet one mistake can kill whole team at any point in the game (even if killer had 0 hooks so far and 5 gens were completed). And even worse feeling is - when you play perfectly and it's your teammate that drags you down.
Anyway - As killer I have something around 70-80% kill rate. As survivor? Barely 40% (and I am generous here. Sometimes it feels you can win only every 3rd to 4th game). So whenever I am fed up with loosing, I just play killer to make me feel better
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@Technature said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378204#Comment_3378204
I'm sorry you can't counter Michael Myers.
what does that killer have to do anything with this map? Meyers is fine (minus tombstone piece) - anyway, this one is totally off topic. I don't see any connection with meyers and this map
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@Technature said:
"Who said anything about being scummy?"
"Stop camping and tunneling and you get some losses."
Also no. It doesn't. It never gets easier because the MMR is basically not real.
Once again. I didn't call that scummy. It's just making it easier. Both sides can do that - but you should not be surprised to get stronger opponents than you can manage if you employ these things.
Also MMR does not work very well, but it still does at least something (even if it feels like it's turned off from time to time)
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@FF009A there's easy counter. Be the one survivor that helps doing gens/cleansing totems by chasing other people's chains instead of trying to do bones...
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@Technature said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377387#Comment_3377387
I love that people will say "stop being scummy" when someone brings up a legitimate problem.
Especially MMR.
And implying it does squat.
I lose most of my games and The Navy Seals still make a daily appearance, what's the excuse there?
Who said anything about being scummy? All I said is - if you don't do easier tactics, your survivors/killers will adjust. The game will become easier.
And the exactly same thing can be said from survivor's perspective. Stop genrushing and bringing BNP's and your killers will adjust and the games will become easier.
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@Technature said:
Point stands. Outside of very specific killers, The Game is one of the worst maps to get stuck on to the point I kill the game if I see an offering for it.
I feel exactly the same when I see killer bring it
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@Technature said:
Oh ok, that makes it feel much better knowing that I got every single pallet
as the survivors tea bag at the gates for 2 minutes over me getting no hooks because I'm too busy destroying pallets.
You left 5 somewhere hidden in the trial :)
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@Technature said:
What are you talking about, I destroyed 20 last night!
There's 25 pallets on the map now. It used to be 32 to 34. It got changed. If you destroyed 20, there was still 5 somewhere (also congratulation in clearing almost all map). In old version you would still have almost half of them left...