Gandor
Gandor
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Buff base sadako and nerf condemn sadako. As it stands, onePumpWillie shows she is not weak by any definition (but only OP boring playstyle on her). It's similar situation to tombstone (piece) meyers vs anything else (even if it's not AS bad).
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@notyarbllewe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3421136#Comment_3421136
Umm, RPD is still very strong for survivors.
To take away my personal experience (I win most times as killer on RPD's and loose most of the time as survivor on that map). Perhaps this tierlist from Otz can actually support my argument?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIzwuFOOYiII am not saying I agree with every map placement in this video, but I think RPD is clear-cut killer sided no matter what
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@Emeal said:
Well Bubba's Player Skill is about knowing these special parts of the maps bHVR creates, and how to navigate them correctly with the Killer. If you reduce the Tantrum then that skill does not matter because you can catch up easily again.
And honestly, Bubba isnt overperforming generally, so is this change really needed or worth it for bHVR? I say no.
What bHVR should get from this convo is that players would enjoy some more consistency or extra care about litter on the maps so Bubba can function more properly. Getting tantrum from hitting a small corpse on the floor is the worst part of playing Bubba.
If the map team and the balance team could set on a specific Hight of where hitbox's stuff is on the ground and where bubba wont tantrum, that would be SOOO GOOD for Bubba players. But undoubtedly if bHVR took time and effort into holding their future map work over this one killer then his killrate would rise.
The only reason bHVR did something about the Bushes on Garden of Joy was because we held them to the standard, there were LOADS of threads and they listened and got around to fixing it. Does this mean, We have to do a Bubba Report on all new maps when they come out to expose the map flaws to BHVR? I mean I would do it, but perhaps the map team and the design team need to develop a bubba standard so he works fine on all maps. But loads of Killers could use such a standard, like trapper???
Agreed. I enjoy bubba a lot recently and the only ######### thing is when you go up/down the stairs behind survivor and you suddenly get tantrum for NO reason at all (previous patch, don't remember the map. But there was nothing on the stairs at all).
Not counting this random stuff, I think Bubba is pretty balanced and fine (even if a little bit addon-reliant in higher MMR).
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@adsads123123123123 said:
Ok. I got it. How about rather than entering Tantrum when he collides, Bubba slows down significantly until he moves away? This makes Tantrum less punishing while stopping Bubba from hugging walls.
How about leaving him one important counterplay instead? Or would you be OK with compensating him (say he can't use chainsaw to break pallets at all)?
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@Bartlaus said:
Wait, we're not complaining about Skull Merchant anymore? Leave my Wraith alone, he's in a good spot.
Everyone knows she's a problem. What is the point of creating yet another thread where you repeat everything, that was already said?
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It would be interesting if
a, gates spawn further away from each other to prevent possibility of direct line of sight between them
b, there was guaranteed some kind of visual obstacle, so that killer does not circumvent it by going on a hill/top floor of building/etc and see both sides.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME: Killer looses terror radius and becomes undetectable during EGC when there's just single survivor left.
This way the game changes from just killer running from gate to gate and trying to see both gates at shortest possible interval into kind-of hide & seek game. This would allow for killer to a, patrol as he does now (but with lesser chance of success) b, hide next to one gate c, try to track survivor at some common crossroad between gates. b, and c, options are not really possible (c, is sometimes possible on very few maps like azarov's or maybe RPD) currently and a, is almost entirely dependent on map RNG instead of player's agency.
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If to play "good" you need to be 4man that scrims together daily and be on comms, because otherwise you are not 0,1% of players and "are playing bad" and you "just deserve to loose". And this is something that should be considered norm - while killer should be OK to play chill and still win 80-90% of his games against anyone no matter if he tries super hard or makes mistakes - until the very moment he finds that 0,1% people that actually scrim together.
Also - to get the same benefit, having aura is just not enough. You would need to add also comms. Because that's also super important part to communicate if/when to take hit, who has what perk, when should survivors swarm the killer and when they should wait for something and so on. Meaning it will NEVER be possible to get to that state. Meaning under your "rule" soloQ is just screwed to always loose. Also there's not just 1 clock callout. I would say every team has different one - so you can't even take 2 players that have clock callout and have them use it right of the bat (they would need to synchronize them before - so you again need comms).
I think it's not interesting to have near 0% chance to escape until you get to the point you are 0,1% of best survivors. That is game-killing change.
Well. I think we have VERY much different sense to what is balanced and fair and there's no point in continuing the discussions.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423069#Comment_3423069
this is most delusional post that I have ever read in a long while. there is very clear of lack inexperience in this post.
Trying to dissect this post is going to be challenging in constructive way.
First of all, The killer being good at the chase is not enough to truly enough beat good survivors. Being good at the chase as killer is like base-line killer skill at high-level. Its like doing gens as survivor.
So no. If you are better killer in chase then survivor, you just win.
This is NOT true. you do not just win. You just lose. I am not joking when I say that virtually 70% of killer cast vs really good survivors is legit cake walk to defeat. When I say defeat, I mean consistently get defeated with 0% chance to win. that is testament to how little impact being good at killers has on the match.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb5RwFrlpWo
If you don't believe me, Spookyloopz recently posted a video where he purposely picks low-tier m1 killers and tries to win hens's swf team. Hens is great player and survivor team is very very good. The idea that the killer just has to do "good chases" and you just win as killer is delusional. Spookyloopz as every killer main would do is using gen defence. gen-blocking in his case to make slow games down. You have no idea what your talking about when you are saying that killer do not need gen defense vs efficient teams.
killer dominating the chase is exactly the natural slowdown he needs. I will give u extreme example to illustrate the point - supaalf when doing his 555 win streak on nurse does not use any gen regression perk (not even during OC+CoB+eruption combo time). Insane huntresses subscribe to open map offering (like all corn maps) and all the aura perks and addons without any slowdown or regression.
This is like the worst possible example to give for so many reasons that it is laughable. First of all, Nurse is like one of two killers that arguably ignores conventional survivor looping. Her chase potential far exceeds virtually every other killer. Second of all, Nurse one of killer that truly does not benefit from gen defense as much other killers. Her actual raw mobility is not that good despite fact that she is able to teleport. I don't remember the raw math behind total distances, but between fatique and cooldown for blink recharging. the total m/s for nurse is like 120% m/s. Its something like that. What this means is that gen-kick perks in normal gameplay are not time efficiency for nurse. Its too much of opportunity cost in time to kick gens over chase survivors. You can technically 3 gen as nurse but nurse does not need to 3 gen to be successful. Her win condition is getting 7 hooks. She is very good at this because she is incredible chaser and a very reliable tunneler. Superalf talks about this in one of his videos where he talks about nurse's problems in balance. He made video around the time when Wesker released his Awaken awareness perk where he said that the two mains strength that nurse has over other killer is her ability to abuse Instant down perks and her ability to abuse aura-reading as direct hits. Instant down synergy got nerfed, so Nurse is more about abusing aura reading over gen defense. This is why his build favors automatic regression(pain res) and automatic aura reading in-chase(Flood of rage). Aura reading is good for nurse because she can down quickly, then use aura reading to tunnel death-hook survivors.
The problem is if you think 2-3 minutes chase for a single down on average is reasonable time and the game is survivor-sided if you loose while having such "quick" chases. It's absolutely not (again, talking about average here - first chase is always longer, because there are more resources on the map). Quick chase is 30s to down someone.
Now we need talk about this point. This game for non-anti loop is atrocious when it comes to time efficiency for killer to do their objective and the loop balance is a whole new other level of problems to talk about. Like, just hitting a healthy survivor and survivor running perfectly forward vs m1 killer(like freddy) is 20 second of just hold-w. This is just dead weight time that killer are forced to waste and killer has zero counter-play to it. It is also not just about getting down. It also about spending time hooking survivors. The killer spending time to pick-up survivors is time that killer wastes for hooking a survivor which is free time on generators. It is just more dead weight time for killer. The comparison is imagine survivors having to wait 10 seconds of 0 progress when they get on a generator before generator started progressing. There is also part where killer need to physically find survivors to chase and walk to places. There is so much free-time waste of killer side that it is not that simple to just say fast chases is free wins.
Downing survivor in 30 seconds if survivor are good at looping is unrealistic for most of killer cast. This is because if survivor are good at looping, they will use looping resources correctly. The distribution of types of pallet in this game is like 33% of pallets are actual infinity bloodlust 3 god pallets. When they're dropped, the vast majority of killer cast has to break them. 33% of the pallets are safe pallets. they're not bloodlust 3 infinities but the killer often has to go to like bloodlust 2 to have a chance to hit the survivor meaning that it is often not worth it such that breaking pallet is faster in a lot of cases and much lower risk play. This means that 2/3 of pallets, you cannot physically down survivors quickly if they know how to loop. The other 33% of pallets are unsafe. these are physically pallet that you can physically hit survivors and there is gameplay for killer at loops.
For this reason, a big portion of dbd for killer is pallet break simulator for non-anti loop killers. its run to pallet, get survivor to drop, break pallet, go to next pallet, break that pallet and so on. The idea that you can generate momentium and defeat good loopers with strong generator efficiency is blissful ignorance. Because of how little the killer has at gameplay in loops, a lot of the game for weaker killer is deadzones, hooking camping and 3 gen. Super defensively gameplay. The killer need less dead weight time waste, more opportunity to hits survivors(more control over loops) and more reward for being successful at the chase(since survivor is playing badly). The killer success should matter.
Your post is not understanding where I am coming from when I am talking about base-kit regression for successfully hooking survivors. This is nothing like BNP.
This just shows that Spooky looses to that group. Check his meyers play with tombstone piece. Sorry, but he outright plays it bad. 1, he did not collect his 3 stacks of PWYF 2, he repeatedly starts his T3 when not close to survivor. It just shows he does not ever play tombstone piece meyers (understandable - he's huntress main and plays some good ghostface. He just does not play those lower-tier killers enough and if he does, he plays for fun (which can be seen by the way he plays even in that video) - against literally one of the best comp teams). Very similar thing to pig with him commiting to a bad chase. That video is just an example of what would happen if you take average player and pit him against expert in their own category. I could show you a video where perkless itemless killer just destroys group of 4 clueless beginning survivors (no matter their loadout) and it would say just about the same thing.
Another thing - it's not even fair comparison. You are comparing strongest stuff on one side to weakest stuff on the other. I can do the other thing and pick 4 random survivors that don't play together with no comms and pit them against nurse or blight or spirit or .... to show just about the same result. How fair would it be to then say survivor does not stand a chance against 70% of killer cast? Ayrun actually streamed his P100 showcase where 4 survivors no comms played against P100 killer (back when those were fresh and there were few players that had P100) - sometimes clown won in those settings. Sometimes nurse lost. Meaning the game is very much playable in that setting.
I think your post is full of all the misconception and all the other stuff. Also it talks about top-tier play (something 99,9% of player will never experience) without taking into account average play (where these "weak killers" have massive killrates according to stats provided by devs). Meaning you are arguing to buff everyone to be feasible in 0,1% case where in 99,9% cases these killers just roll (and in 0,1% there are other killers that still roll). Don't you feel like that is quite unfair? Do you think the game would be OK and alive if 99,9% of survivors would have 10-20% escape rate?
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If you have game sense (or infectious fright), you know where survivors are. To get that pallet save, survivor needs to be rather close. If you suspect where he is, you don't even need to fully chase him away - you can always bodyblock one side of pallet (it's very common - and I would even say unfair - that while killer is picking up survivor and another survivor comes during pickup from same side, he will have prompt to drop pallet while killer is in animation = when dropping pallet does not result in save. But once he fully picks survivor and before he can move, the prompt disappears (the unfair thing is this prompt to drop lie) making pallet save impossible). If the survivor is close enough that he can come from both sides - then come on. You literally must be able to hear him even if not injured. Get your free hit instead and pick up right after.
Also you can always slug if everything else fails.
Asking for possibility to consistently always counter everything is like saying from survivor's side, that pallets should respawn if all pallets in that section are dropped - by same reasoning, that there's nothing to be done in that situation no matter how good survivor you are (ignoring windows of opportunity as a fix, game sense to not go to dead zone, not predropping all the pallets in previous chase and so on)
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422528#Comment_3422528
You should be able to answer that yourself to why BNP is not loose less from your own example. 2 people are dead, The killer will find 1 survivor chase them, hook them and can guaranteed camp to ensure 3 kill victory. your BNP/Progression is not changing outcome of the match. The reason why I ignored the example is because it is bad example.
Not true. They completed all gens
your missing the point. Assuming a killer is dominating you in chase. Your not suppose to be able to escape as survivor but DBD is balanced in such a way that you can play every chase as bad as possible but still have escape chances on survivor.
As strange as this sounds, the more chases that the killer goes for, the greater odds you have of escaping. its very bizarre that the killer get punished for attempting to chase and get little to no rewards for successfully committing to the chase and successfully ending the chase quickly. that is what gen-delay perks are trying to address. Pain res is good example of a perk that is trying to address that aspect of the game. The perk is trying to make hooking more rewarding and chasing entire team rewarding over camping(skipping hook states through 60 second timer mechanic) and tunneling 1/2 survivors on the team. With a change like that, there would be less requirement to use gen-delay perks and more killer would be incline to not tunnel because an alternative chase hooking play-style is possible and potentially more rewarding. I am not saying that every killer would not tunnel/camp but at least there is more opportunity to not do so.
I am not likely not going convince you in such a change but I do think that dev 2.5% regression attempt on generators has not been successful in making gen-delay less mandatory for killer. That is all I have to say.
1, if he can hook that survivor in time at all (said BNP lowers the chance - making it exactly loose less scenario) - so it's possible to get to 2 out when both lucky in chase and when killer gets less bloodlust time
2, killer dominating the chase is exactly the natural slowdown he needs. I will give u extreme example to illustrate the point - supaalf when doing his 555 win streak on nurse does not use any gen regression perk (not even during OC+CoB+eruption combo time). Insane huntresses subscribe to open map offering (like all corn maps) and all the aura perks and addons without any slowdown or regression. The point is - if you are able to get quick downs, you don't need any gen regressions, because out of 4 survivors - 1 is hanging, 1 goes for unhook, 1 is healing after being unhooked and 1 is in chase - in this case there's no regression required, because you built momentum and there's 0 gen progression.
If you are indeed good in chase, then you don't need to do anything but chase and hook (even hooking is optional - you can always slug - which btw builds extra snowball if played correctly). So no. If you are better killer in chase then survivor, you just win. The problem is if you think 2-3 minutes chase for a single down on average is reasonable time and the game is survivor-sided if you loose while having such "quick" chases. It's absolutely not (again, talking about average here - first chase is always longer, because there are more resources on the map). Quick chase is 30s to down someone. Anything above 1 minute is slow and it means you will need to make it up somewhere else (say by perk like pain resonance) - on the other hand as survivor you can kinda negate single bad chase like that and make it effectively "longer chase" by using BNP's.
And sure - this is still simplified a lot. Because there are things like having setup to your abilities (for some killers/perks/...), creating deadzones, slugging, basement plays and sure - also camp and tunnel if that's needed. And killer can win the whole game at any time - all he needs is one serious mistake on survivor side and a bit of altruism. So 0 hooks on 5 completed gens by far does not automatically mean the game can't end in 4k.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422715#Comment_3422715
If Survivors will just see different perks from the ones you actually carry, then your solution is literally no different from just having the option to choose if you want to just outright hide what perks you carry by just not showing any perks at all because in both scenarios, the information is hidden away for your teammates.
Solo Q could definitely use some more features, however if we're gonna go with the feature suggested by OP, then it needs to be just that, a toggleable accessability feature for both perks and items seperately if you want others to seem them at all or not.
It's not the same. You will get lobby dodged for not showing your loadout.
Also - this feature is by no definition accessibility. It does not help certain group of people play the game. It does not alleviate any disability or anything like that. This is purely just about balancing soloQ with SWF to be closer together (a good thing still. It's just not accessibility feature)
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@Smoe said:
This should be more of an accessibility option than a forced implementation, because i'm fairly certain that Survivors will lobby dodge any teammates who's carrying perks that they don't want them to carry, especially No Mither.
Even this could be solved easily. Let survivor pick what other survivors see and let them have something else too (e.g. by having "lock selection" button - after which u click on loadout 2 where u have solo survivor, no mither, left behind and wakeup).
Overall there really needs to be done something to help soloQ. It's too rough right now
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Agreed. Double iri is crazy strong. Tombstone piece + stalk is actually OP. Everyone knows that. A thread about it (and about need to buff meyers that is not using any of those addons - another well known thing) is created at minimum every week. Yet for some reason devs are happy with current meyers.
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422631#Comment_3422631
But @galanonim25 suggestion would not / hardly affect M1 killers at all, where it would hurt high mobility killer more severely, at least for a short time. The later are stronger and often capable of rendering DS meaningless, so inconviencing them more should be the way to go.
Your solution of an after-DS is the other way around: M1 killers would have it way harder to continue the tunnel (itself a good thing), but high mobility killers are not so much affected. Thus increasing the power difference between strong and weak chase killers, when we should rather try to decrease it.
TBF I would be happy with either solution. My version just looks a bit more like old 5s DS with taking into account most common killer complaint, while OP's suggestion is something entirely new.
But if any of those gets implemented, it would actually make the game healthier as there would again be some risk in hard tunneling people out (OTR is sadly not the answer, as that one is useful in soft-tunneling case only - meaning if killer is not also focusing survivor enough to hit him during basekit BT rendering OTR almost useless)
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@galanonim25 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422593#Comment_3422593
Do you think additional movement speed after ds would hurt most weaker killers instead of those most mobile like Blight or Nurse?
It would hurt them both. But that means you are back in chase against S-tier. If u r extremely lucky, you could even disappear. And it's full chase reset for regular M1
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I think corrupt is already strong and don't need any buff.
Since hexes are weak right now (sure they can still change the game outcome - especially dhope and NOED if u hook someone next to the totem), I think it would not be too oppresive giving them 20s basekit protection (at the start of the trial only - pentimento/face the darkness don't need extra protection whenever they spawn) - so at least killers that can protect them (like demo, or trapper, or hag) have time to actually get to them and do that
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I think adding 3s (so effectively 2s because of animation) sprint burst into DS would solve the issue of perk being meaningless for speedy killers (nurse/blight/spirit) and minor inconvenience most of the time for all the other killers.
Nobody ever respects DS these days, because why would anyone do that (even if you chased someone for almost a full minute and he jumped to locker in front of u)? Also adding sprint instead of reverting stun to 5s would prevent headon combo and all the other things killers complained about with this perk (weaponizing argument) and possibly allow killer to swap target instead of waiting.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422107#Comment_3422107
Nurse doesn’t even care about map design. The current map designs reward her more than anyone because she’s the only one not screwed over by it.
If map design stays the way it is, then Nurse and Blight will become more popular because they’re the only ones that can compete on them.
Given the same idea (change maps to suite m1 killers even if it makes m2 killers just outright OP) - the game should now balance around 50% escape rate for soloQ. Meaning reverse patch 6.1, return old hatch mechanics and probably also permanent hook sabotages and some infinites. Would you agree to that?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422222#Comment_3422222
comparing win-more mechanic for survivor and lose-less mechanic for killer (that also doubles as win-more mechanic because regressing generators always helps even though winning a game at 3 gens is same as winning a game on 4 gens due to regression) is comparing apples and oranges. you need compare things that are similar in nature towards gameplay i.e both sides having mechanics that make them win-faster.
Meaning if you just now only add 25% regress for every survivor basekit - you would need to balance the game further, or "you will be doing same
survivorkiller gameplay loop as before but you will be winning significantlyfastermore consistently"If your opponent is playing poorly then you should be winning consistently until your opponent plays better then you do at the chase.
My major point is that dev's 6.1.0 update in adding 2.5% regression for kicking gens did not fix killers not needing to run gen delay perks. Adding 24 second healing is not fun interactive fix either as it forces no-mither type injured gameplay. they need weaken health-states, not delete them. the 10% less speed boost and 10% less recovery is good change to reducing time-waste of health-state second chancing but it needs to be iterated a bit more. higher numbers similar to original 5 second bt ->10 sec bt. Less dependent on STBFL perk. Maybe add some of the perk into base-kit and weaken the perk.
Also about the video. What are you trying to say with it?
A killer could be absolute imbalanced completely in the chase but you can still complete all 5 generators despite being impossible loop. that is what I am saying. that's extent that you can stack-win more repair bonuses and still come out even against all odds. Comparing this to killer getting generator regression to have enough time chase survivors if he does well in the chase is different.
The killer is talking about getting rewarded for not tunneling and winning chases. your talking about some imbalanced generator progression.
The point is - why is BNP's also NOT loose less? I even gave u perfect example u didn't touch (because there's no way to touch it - my example that allows 1 maaaaaybe 2 out is 100% not win more situation). BOTH are win more AND loose less at the same time and to the same degree.
And again about the video. Not true. They completed all gens, because alf couldn't turn normally making him also a little handicapped (which survivors used to max stacking everything - even map to abuse this as much as possible). Once he would fix that (by e.g. lowering sensitivity/dpi, or getting used to it), he would at worst 4k at 3 gens left every time - meaning your video has no meaning and shows nothing usable.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422163#Comment_3422163
Hell, even if it's "for balance" there is no reason to NOT just change it and "carefully monitor it for months" just like when they wrecked everything in the past, and I'm mostly sure it WILL NOT affect the game as much as they think.
Do that and my spirit will be unstoppable (and I am only good with her, there are better spirits). Flashlight blinds would be totally meaningless (you can already follow people when blinded, but you can get stuck - which you would figure out super easy without). Also no mind games at loops, because as survivor I will know where u r precisely (right now I can do that only against nemesis - but good nemi could be ok with it because of his ability. Say legion would suffer bad).
If the sound is overall too loud, just lower your overall sound settings. I am certain there is option to do that
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@Marc_go_solo said:
Here are my thoughts on these ideas which, regardless of opinion, at least brings some interesting changes to each perk.
Corrective Action: I can see this being too strong in relation with other perks such as Hyperfocus. At the same time, the change itself would be better if earnt. So I'd propose a survivor with this perk starts with 0 tokens and can gain 3/4/5 tokens. They gain the tokens by hitting a "true" great skillcheck. That is to say a great skillcheck in the small white bar only. Stake Out does not work with this perk. This may even bring some reason to bring "This is not happening", so opens another avenue for another weak perk.
Inner Focus sounds okay, but maybe too much killer info? Rather than reveal the killer's aura and keeping in line with the perk, perhaps show the injured survivor aura instead. It still gives infornation, but won't show the killer's direction after the hit. Prevents survivors from knowing if it's a hit n' run or not. I'd give a cooldowb for that particular effect also.
Red Herring: I like this a lot. It has a cooldown and could even be used as a distraction technique at the expense of a small loss of progression. This would be a fun change. Nice work!
Self-Preservation: Again, it's a good change to increase the radius and can be used with other perks to quickly go in for a save or protectiin with less of a chance to be noticed. No issue with rhis at all.
Buckle Up: Forgive me, but isn't this like this already? Minus the bit of you being healed? To be honest, I feel Buckle Up is okay for now, so I suppose your change idea is good because it's already been buffed to that.
Poised. Again, another good change which allows a little more control and tactics with this ability.
Overall, some nice changes!
That change to inner focus would just make it much worse empathy. Also showing killer for 10s it not that much information, because even fogwise - a perk that gives consistently more info about killer is not super good (i am not saying it's bad perk, but it most certainly is not meta).
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@Dream_Whisper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422156#Comment_3422156
Exactly, Luck is quite a vague and complicated outdated mechanic since the dawn of the game launch; and it only effects chest searches and self-unhooking chances.
Meanwhile, as the games gets new perks like Deliverance that completely guarntee 100% self-unhooking after a safe rescue requirement; luck perks pretty much get no favorite besides the increase chances. It is not like every Survivor in your Survivor is ever going to run it; as there are literally so many better and more practical useful perks to ensure that you don't go down and hook in the first place and if by chance you did, there are still better unhooking perks or the common knowledge that every teammates needs to come save you from the hook when the killer is not near or camping..
I agreed, we need a 2nd effect; but I am not sure what exactly it would be; which is why I went with whole High Risk, High Reward for some extra BP for any new players to run.
What exactly are you referring as "Some of the numbers/buffs are too much IMO"?
I am curious to know which awful perks that i Rework/buff that are too strong for you?
Like for example your buckle up would be unbeatable in case of 4man SWF with sabo build. Make it work with say 3 tokens (1 pick up per unique survivor) and it's very strong niche perk. But keep it unlimited and there's basically no good counterplay (killer can bleed those survivors, but that takes too long making it super hard to win).
But this was just an example. For all the other perks: I think your premonition is also a bit too good counter for stealth killers + good against all killers (if you play stealthy), this is not happening would synergize with hyperfocus too much (you would need number adjustment for 1 of these 2), corrective action would be even more broken in swf/hyperfocus case, self care is already 46s, because base healing is now always 16s (and medkits got debuff instead - maybe u didn't notice this change from PTB to live), so your 60% is way too high (IMO it shouldn't go above 50%, but current 35% is too little), left behind would give 0 indication to killer making it a bit unfair (take key so killer can know or take a chance with also plunderer), solo survivor was already mentioned, mettle should get only 1 of your 2 buffs and not both.
On the other hand, i think that all boons are now so bad (with CoH change), that it would be ok to increase their size and they still would not become OP.
But as I said - I think it's generally good ideas. Some tweaks would still be needed, but it looks fine
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422180#Comment_3422180
I have played against survivor that bring 2 brand new part toolboxes and I kill entire team with 4 gens left. Its kinda same old mori's back in the day. Old mori did not mean you auto won the match as killer. they heavily stacked the odds in your favor because you were removing hook-states from opposing side leading to faster deaths(like tunnel off hook). you could still escape killers because in order for reducing hook state to be relevant, you need to be able to down survivor two times consecutively to take advantage of mori effect. Killer who failed to do this still lost even with old mori's. That's kinda what win-more mechanic is. you need to be able to win to win-more. You win faster. It is that simple.
Going back toolboxes and repair speed progression perks. you need to be able to repair 5 generators without these progression bonuses to win. Once your able to semi-consistently do that, these items become insane because if you were already semi-finishing all 5 gens without progression than these items take up your efficiency to next level. When you start using these items, you will be doing same survivor gameplay loop as before but you will be winning significantly faster. In fact if you stack enough win-more mechanics on survivor side, you could potentially be unbeatable. Survivor gameplay is more complicated. there is a lot of moving parts to play survivor well. there is no simple explanation that does not miss a big portion of relevant detail to summarize survivor gameplay. To show how ridiculously win-more stacking is in this game, you have a killer that moves 400%. Completely impossible loop and you still complete the objective. Shouldn't the game be unwinnable? Well you would be very surprised.
Around 3-4 months ago, There used to be a bug on Knight that made him go 300-400% speed. SuperAlf decided to do private lobby to see if you could defeat a killer with so much movement speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHc7RVvs6yg
Here is the video if your curious. You can indeed complete all 5 generators when facing killer at 400% speed. You cannot quite escape the killer but you can finish all 5 generator which is impressive to say least. As I said, gen progression is not quite same thing.
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What I am talking about is different. I am saying that killers that are successfully winning chases in short amount of time should be near impossible to defeat because survivor is playing as bad as possible. Being successful at chases should prerequisite towards escaping as survivor. Until anything changes in regards to this, you can expect gen delay and tunneling to stay the same assuming there is any generator defence left to begin with. What your talking about is unrelated to what I am talking about.
Ok. Now exchange every "survivor" for "killer" and every "BNP" for "basekit pain res" and tell me where is the analogy wrong?
This is the reason why I say those 2 things are very much the same and comparing them together very much makes sense.
Also in times of old mori's - there were 2x as many pallets, shack had 2 windows, keys would allow all 4 survivors to get out via hatch that spawned way sooner, permanent sabotages were in the game and gen took 60s to repair - and yet the game was still playable, because a, people didn't know looping was really possible and viable compared to hiding b, killers also had broken things - like said old mori. Meaning if you just now only add 25% regress for every survivor basekit - you would need to balance the game further, or "you will be doing same
survivorkiller gameplay loop as before but you will be winning significantlyfastermore consistently"Also about the video. What are you trying to say with it? That if you are super quick, then it's hard to control your killer and you might whiff long enough, that max loaded survivors could maybe possibly on a best map under best conditions sometimes do all gens and still die? How would the situation change if Alf learned to actually control said killer? all consistently dead at 3 gens? 4 gens? What if he decided to play nasty and always bring survivors to basement + tunnel them. 4K at 5 gens?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422141#Comment_3422141
gen progress is exclusively win more mechanic. its hard to compare to anything on killer side because there is nothing that directly 1:1 speed up their ability to kill. closest thing is old ebony mori offering. the old ebony mori offering made it so that you could mori a survivor on first hook. Effectively, this means that you reduce the total number of hook state by 33%.
Commodos wire spool+brand new part toolboxes are similar. they decrease the survivor's objective time. On average, 4 of these toolboxes is roughly -2 generators which is 40% of the objective. you can see why brand new part used to be compared to old ebony mori. Keys were also compared to this because you could finish 4 gens where 1 person dies, then 3 people could escape through hatch which effectively skips 1 gen. I think keys were supposedly an item to counter 3 gens but they didn't make much sense at that point of the game because an anti 3 gen mechanic like old keys is not needed when regression is 4x slower and no perks influenced over-time regression until hex:ruin rework and much more recent cob/oc perks. As I said, its not comparable.
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My post regarding pain res is little bit like otz video regarding tunneling. you can give suggestions to give alternative options for killer to not tunnel but players like you will reject them. Base-kit Pain Res would likely get feedback like this. "Why I am being punished for my teammates being terrible at the chase, What an unfair mechanic, reee ".
How is it win more? 2 survivors left, 2 gens left. U have 2x BNP, you have theoretical chance to do both gens and open gate IF someone somehow chases with killer for like 1-2 minutes (this is very much possible. Lot of killers will just hard tunnel - and in mixed-skill lobies, u can get 2-3 people u can catch in 20-30s and also another survivor that can have 90s chase - so no. This is not an obscure thing that never happens). Without BNP, the chance is just not there - because u are basically guaranteed to run out of pallets or get bloodlusted. So this definitely comes to exactly the same category for very same reason - you either win more with it, or you loose less.
Exactly the same thing works for killer. He can either have enough time anyway and killing everyone at 4-5 gens left (it does happen - 1-2 big survivor mistakes at beginning and you need strong comeback to not loose) - making such a regression just "win more", or alternatively you are being spread on a huge map to all 4 corners of it where pain res actually gives you chance to make time to get back into the game - so it's loose less in that case.
Same mechanics and you could even fit those into exactly the same situation and just talk about missing pain res/BNP to actually reverse the game outcome using same words for both sides.
About alternative - I didn't say making incentives for spreading hook instead of tunneling is bad idea. But providing mechanics that will give you benefit in both cases (meaning u can camp and tunnel and still get it) is just not it. That is just and only killer buff. And I don't think it's good idea to give blanked buffs to all killers at this time (I am all for buffing some specific killers, but nerfing others. Alternatively buffing soloQ in superfluous way to SWF and buffing specifically weaker killers - leaving everything else the same). The game is already super unforgiving to soloQ players and another general killer buff would be just detrimental at this point (again - there are specific killers that need to be buffed) - and even if some killers are pain to play compared to others (non-condemn sadako, non-tombstone meyers, freddy vs nurse, blight, spirit) - it's still better then soloQ experience compared to SWF (not even counting comms into it - sometimes you can be just screwed by matchmaking into literally unwinnable game no matter what you do - which is less of a thing even for weaker killers).
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@Dream_Whisper said:
They could removed that 30% reduction for Calm Spirit, but I think it is fine with all other stats; compared with other perks.
Up the ante is tricky. As it is a lucky affected perk and there seem to be no other way to buff it significantly, since luck only affects unhooking chance ans I thought also chest searching for rare items. Luck is a complicated mechanic. Which is why I made it a Risky BP perk, that rewards you doing risky plays like saving, unhooking, gens fixing, minute wasting the Killer's time in chase, etc.
Solo Survivor will be fine, for those that do not relie on teammates whom cannot survive long enough. Plus, it okay if you are much strong when teammates die, and helps those that want to solo escape. It would be a very situational perk, but made for Survivors that are fine with me the last standing builds.
Self-care is good as it great alternative for solo heal, but medkits and perks will not stack with it. Also, the math is wrong as I factor in the new healing speed which is 24 instead of 16 seconds. 24 devide by 60% is 40 seconds of Healing, you would be right, if it was 16 devide by 60%; no anymore with the new healing changes.
Luck used to influence chest items, but that was removed ages ago. Anyway - this one is quite weird one. If you 4man SWF and combine it with stacked salty lips offering, the chance to self-unhook (deli for free, very minor risk of going to 2nd stage and no broken state) is very real possibility. I would rather think about some small secondary effect - but I have no idea what it would be.
Also some of the numbers/buffs are too much IMO, but overall it would be nice to make some absolutely useless perks (some of which are about as good as having empty perk slot) do something and make them useful in their niche.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422101#Comment_3422101
If you want to be super technical about it, you could make that first hook does not regress generator. That is not how current pain works though and the idea that chasing = tunneling is messed up.
From previous discussions that I have had with you, there is little point in discussion because your one of those types of player that have very set opinion. I am just going agree to disagree. your comparison and analogy is really far off. gen regression is weird in the game because its mechanic that is lose-less and win-more at same time. If your going give a comparison then you need have a mechanic that is lose-less and win-more at the same time.
closest I could think of to this mechanic for survivor is dead hard. If we dig deeper, it applies all second chance perk but I will keep it simple. DH is comparable to this mechanic because let's say your winning the chase as survivor. you have looped killer for 45 which let just say it is average. If you hit dead hard and your successful, you can extend chases by 30 seconds, so your 45 second turned into 75 second chase. By successfully landing dead hard, your winning harder. You already looped killer 45 seconds, but now your winning harder because you looped even better then what you were suppose to loop. What was suppose to be 1 gen chase turned into 3 gen chase.
Dead hard is also lose-less mechanic. How is it lose-less? Well let's say two people are slugged on floor, everyone is injured. you get chased as survivor. you loop killer for 20 seconds. You hit Dead hard, you extend chase by +20 seconds. During the time that you looped the killer for extra 20 seconds, your team picked themselves up for slug and all 3 survivor are fully healed. From a bad situation, you comeback. this is an example of losing less. Instead of you going down, you tank a hit and reset your team.
second-chance perks are closest thing to generator regression in the game because of win-more and lose-less mechanic of the game. they're honestly too powerful but that's separate discussion in my opinion.
I sincerely don't understand. If you have a thing that "instantly" progresses your gens by 25% most of the time - then how is that different to the other side having thing that instntly regresses your gens by 25% most of the time? I absolutely don't get it. One thing gives more time to killers to kill survivors, the other thing takes away exactly the same time for killer to actually kill all survivors (with very minor differences - most standard case would be for PR absolutely precisely negate 4 BNP's making it the same as if 0 instead of 4 survs brought those and killer bringing 3 perks insted of 4th pain res).
Why would you even compare it to something that is the same ONLY BY PROXY + much more conditionally? I don't understand your reasoning.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3421173#Comment_3421173
But literally no one enters the locker without some kind of reasons that involve killers? are you sure you know what you are talking about?
I don't even think it needs to be basekit as this perk is nothing more than QoL too? don't think it shouldn't be basekit neither though.
It absolutely is NOT just QOL. Is it QOL to be able to vault windows too? Sounds stupid. Lockers have specific interactions that are very much needed in game (tombstone meyers, bubba with charged M2, legion in ability, dodging BBQ against huntress, getting rid of crows for artist and sure enough - sometimes even hiding (which can be done also mid chase) ). Make this basekit and you are removing one more interaction.
Supposed this to be a thing - then disable undetectable, blindness and oblivious - because it would be "more fun" to allow less
things to be part of the game /s
@Clockwork_Enigma said:
Iron Maiden is among the worst designed Perks in the game despite being one of the worst Perks in the game, period. Look at what it does and hear this out:
- There should be no reason a Survivor should be Exposed when doing a simple action that doesn't have any input from the Killer.
- There should be no reason that it should affect Killer locker opening speeds, especially for Killers that need to reload.
This is bad design, because it allows for Killers to put a Survivor into an unearned Dying State for doing something that the Killer didn't even cause, and it makes it so that certain Killers (such as Huntress, Trickster and to an extent, the Dredge) may have to rely on the perk for its quality of life.
This Perk is among the many that need an actual redesign since it shouldn't punish players for doing something so trivial (especially for 30 seconds) and it shouldn't force players of certain characters to run it to make them better.
There should be no argument here that Iron Maiden's locker speed bonus should become base (with exception to finding a Survivor from a Locker) and that the Exposed status effect should be replaced with something else.
In my honest opinion, Iron Maiden should just be this:
- Applies the Oblivious status effect to Survivors inside of Lockers. This effect lingers for 20/25/30 seconds after the Survivor exits the Locker.
- Upon exiting a Locker, a Survivor will scream and reveal their location to you for 4 seconds.
Absolutely not. The perk is niche - it helps with certain rare interactions, but it does it very well. This is IMO very good design. You don't need the perk, but it absolutely enhances your game if taken as killer.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422083#Comment_3422083
not comparable at all.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422090#Comment_3422090
I am not hard-nerfing the tactics, I am providing incentive to NOT do those tactics. Killer was never unplayable. It will never be unplayable because if your good the game, you'll always beat weaker survivor that are worse then your killer play. This is more related to 0.1-2% of type change.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422078#Comment_3422078
there is nothing to use. its base-kit. Why would they nerf existing slowdown perks? most of them rely on gen-kicking i.e 3 gens but all of them have been severely weakened. The other ones action speed penalty with terrible numbers/conditions/drawbacks and then there is CI+Deadlock.
not comparable at all.
It's precisely and very well comparable. BNP's give between 15-25% progression (where 25% is most likely in higher MMR) and pain res anything between 0-25% regression (where full 25% is most likely in every MMR). How is that not comparable? I see it as perfect comparable example - where the biggest difference is that scourge hook first requires down (while survivor just need to not be interrupted for a short time or not loose toolbox from franklin's or something like that). Very similar mechanics.
I am providing incentive to NOT do those tactics
The incentive is absolutely NOT there. Because it works as just a pure bonus to camp + tunnel. It would be incentive if it made you choose - you get the bonus OR you do those tactics. BUT you are able to do both making it just pure buff. Also - the same thing and same requirement would be just there again a week later - because weaker killer player would be "forced" to do those to have chance against "OP survivors" (those he does not even see right now, because he didn't even reach soft cap to see them)
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Why do you want to buff nemesis? He's already strong and feels unstoppable in hands of a capable killer. The only reason why his kill rates are not insanely high is, that he needs to hit you 3x instead of 2x. Should they revoke this extra health state, he would be too insane
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422071#Comment_3422071
I disagree. I bet 60%+ of killer that play at high-level would also disagree. generator regression/delay is neccassary in the game because it gives greater correlation of on killer success in micro chase. I am not joking when I say that you can play total #^$ at survivor and a strong swf with optimized gen efficiency will still finish all 5 gens despite running 0 good loops/long chases the entire game.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4DDLNVOWOZQU/image.png
If you don't believe, just look at stats on perk pick-rates. Jolt, sloppy, pain res, corrupt, deadlock. These pick-rate were way higher before but they are lower now because BVHR has nerfed gen delay perks that we are getting to the point where game-delay perks are low-impact that there is almost little point in running them. that does not mean they are not necessary and that suddenly the problem has been fixed.
The problem is still there but you will experience more tunneling and more camping for purposes of slowing down the game as a result.
Sure. But the problem is, that killers will always camp and tunnel so long as it's the easiest and most rewarding thing. This argument is just pure utter nonsense. You would need to hard-nerf those tactics before you buff killers in some other way.
Also it's not like killer is unplayable. This patch especially S-tier killers have it easy (and if you mention trapper/onryo/etc I can say the same thing with soloQ - with the difference that every killer has it easier then soloQ survivors)
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422043#Comment_3422043
It would be really bad idea.
why? Hooking survivors should be rewarding. I am do not know how to write this without sounding insulting. Survivors could run 0 good loops and the survivor still has potencial to escape killers because generator progression does not have a great enough correlation to killer's micro chase gameplay. To put mildly, you could run 0 loops correctly as survivor and you will still win like 50% of the time. that should not be the case... Being successful at downing survivors quickly as killer should be rewarding and survivor's chasing skill should impact their ability to complete the generator objective. Its why killer used gen delay perks...
I agree pain res is best regression perk still but remember what dev wrote in both the healing update and 6.1 update. Running regression should be optional, not mandatory for killer. a change like this would make it more optional rather then mandatory.
For the same reason as BNP should NOT be basekit. It provides 25% regression 4x (same as BNP provides up-to 25% progression per survivor). Just no. Bad idea. Also the perk is very strong. It's part of almost all of my killer builds (I remove it mainly if I decide to use deadlock instead as they have quite a significant antisynergy)
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422051#Comment_3422051
Getting a scourge hook is already pretty likely as it is, the first one being guaranteed to have the effect isn't a big deal imo. That parts significance is in the early game anyways where killer could use the help
If it's not a big deal, then why bother? It's good the way it is. Also this would be just too convenient specifically for pain res
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How is this accessibility? This is 100% all in all JUST about balance. If the sound is too loud, then make it more quiet. Otherwise it is intended for footsteps to NOT be the loudest thing in a game.
This is so absurd, as saying survivors should not be slower then killer - as it makes no sense. Survivor runs for his life and would 100% run quicker then killer so it should be accessibility setting to set survivor speed....
But I agree with 1 thing - nurse chase music indeed is too loud IMO
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I don't like the idea. 1st hook would always just be scourge hook or not (basically guaranteed for killer). Sounds bad
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Slinger is in good state and doesn't need buffs. In top-tier he's even slightly better then huntress:
https://youtu.be/R2PzvdWGuMg -
@nikodemo said:
Map offerings should BAN maps, not increase their chances.
No one should have the power to drag all the other players to one person's preferred map. Not to mention it's weighted 4 survs vs one killer.
Agreed. Hide lobby for both sides (no lobby shopping, no franklins for 4 medkits, no lightborn for 4 beamers) and then we can nerf map offerings. No side should have advantage in lobby (or keep both, but I would rather remove both sides).
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3421147#Comment_3421147
Does it matter whether some killers have multiple or not? it's not like you can bring 3 or 4, all it matters is have it or don't have it.
It does matter. It's very different if you are say pyramidhead and u don't have any BNP-grade addon, or you are C33 alch ring blight - having something that survivors just can't match. But there are multiple killerd like that. Double iri plague, MDR-amulet spirit, etc - while survivors can't effectively bring double BNP's.
Meaning both sides have unfair things. You can't target just one side and "be happy". That's just unfair no matter which side you are nerfing
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@fulltonon said:
Hell, 70% of killers doesn't even have "broken addon", and one of the strongest addons are on-par for BNP at best.
I would seriously argue your numbers. Especially because some killers have multiple BNP-grade addons
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Someone calling RPD survivor sided O.o . Like there could maybe be an argument for haddonfield (that one sides with both sides depending on where u find the survivor), but RPD? Are you perhaps playing huntress? (No argument for farm and Ormond)
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This "small nerf" knocked it down from meta. I wonder if OP will reflect to how much outside of reality he was...
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420711#Comment_3420711
But it doesn’t work against those killers if they know what they are doing?
also, an accessibility option locked behind a perk is NOT the solution and the devs agree (see Spine Chill change and Visual heartbeat)
360 maybe. Different FOV techs? hiding next to killer? Nope. Only in better MMR
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420513#Comment_3420513
I was talking about normal FoV options, not the normal base FoV. No one cares what the base is, if the game has an FoV slider. You're just being pedantic at this point.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420525#Comment_3420525
If it's such a "great advantage", then shadowborn would be a top tier perk. But it's generally rated very low on tier lists, and it has a low pick rate.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420528#Comment_3420528
Literally just throw it in the game, observe if the escape rates go outside of the acceptable range, and make other balance changes if the escape rates go outside of the acceptable range.
It's the exact same strategy as what BHVR is doing with the survivor HUD, and can work for an FoV slider too.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420550#Comment_3420550
It's well known that multiple people on these forums claim the default DBD FoV gives them motion sickness, and they use Shadowborn so they don't have motion sickness.
And the default FoV is causing some people to have headaches or nausea, regardless of what your website link says.
Go play rock-paper-scissor. That way you get exactly 1/3 chance to win 1/3 to draw and 1/3 to loose. Well. You don't like that game? It's just about luck and not about things you can do in a game? Yes. Exactly. And you are just asking to remove fundamental part of this game too
@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420550#Comment_3420550
It is well known that motion sickness can be cause by different FoVs for different people. Some are more affected some less some not at all. I remember that a dev even acknowledged this (and they claimed they are themselves affected for wider FoV and directly affected by Shadowborn). It is an accessibility issue for first person view. And not (to the same degree) for third person view. Doesn’t matter how much you try to spin it in another way. I am pretty sure others can provide trustful sources that a slider is better for accessibility.
and I didn’t say it doesn’t matter what survivors want? It doesn’t matter if a small toxic part demands something unreasonably.
i say it’s outdated. It’s my opinion. It only works against new killer players and controller players without affecting experienced killer players on M&K. It’s not an actual engaging nor really skillful mechanic.
And against best Blights, Nurses, Oni's and Spirits in their ability. Sure we want to remove skillful interactions in name of something THAT IS ALREADY SOLVED. Just use the perk.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420569#Comment_3420569
Survivors being able to go over the intended turn rate is an unintended mechanic. The game should be fixed so that survivors can only turn at intended speeds.
That would be true. If survivor in fact could go beyond limit. But it's just normal moving. Survivor is just close so he looks to be moving quickly
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420196#Comment_3420196
Devs have mentioned multiple times that pallet stuns are not instant, and they purposely created a delay between a survivor dropping a pallet and the stun frames being active.
So this doesn't even need to be a ping issue. There's literally a timeframe where both players can press their action button, and the valid server response is both a stun and a hit.
And a survivor isn't "just spinning". They are also exploiting an unintended mechanic that allows them to exceed their intended turn rate. BHVR should fix this, so that survivors can still spin in place, but only at the intended turn rate.
Devs specifically said 360 is not exploit. Direct message from devs in their Q&A. And ping will still create those scenarios - best way you can see it is when killer get teleported to other side of the pallet
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@Lovis said:
Being 31 secs blinded by 1 survivor its excessive. I cant imagine 4 survivors who whant to blind the killer taking turns to do it. This should be nerfed
I can give you tip that will immediately nerf flashlight for you. Once you are blinded and u don't see anything, look either up or down (it usually doesn't matter, but if you are on stairs - look so that you can't be blinded) - this way it's impossible to get chain blinded*
(with exception to pallets - if you get stunned and blinded AND u decide to break the pallet while blinded - survivor can chain blind u in breaking pallet animation). Not counting this interaction, you can't ever be chain blinded again
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420374#Comment_3420374
Yeah, they you should probably go into detail about what's bad about her current design and how your solve it and how Killers/ Survivors will be more happy about your ideas?
The thing that is not fun is - that her gameplay dilutes fun parts (chases, killer-survivor interations, possibility for mindgames and outplays) into long-ass match where she just has to play the slow game - to basically deplete all the resources in very long game. That's no fun. So changing her design where chases are more viable AND rewarding in exchange for her ability to hold the game for an hour is good change.
Preferably something that gives both sides possibilities (this last sentence is more criticism for knight where you poop guard in a loop and survivor runs to next loop. If he's in corner, knight gets hit. If he's not in corner, survivor gets out - no outplays possible)
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I don't know the game, but seeing what you wrote - maybe a few skins on doctor would actually do the trick (think the same thing as attack on titan collab)?
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@Emeal said:
Thats okay, not all Killers has to be for you, you know. Im not a fan of Blight or Billy, but I would not want them to change them if there are loads of people people enjoying them.
also, How do we get from "The Killer is obnoxious" to "Therefore we need to change the Killer right now" seems like there are some steps missing. Like your argument in this thread seems to be, Hey this killer's play style does not fit its Lore, so change it pls.
The reason is, that the player is probably the most hated killer in game right now (maybe knight can compete). Which in and of itself is fine - there is always one like that. But historically it was always someone who was too strong (meaning there was not enough counterplay).
This is not the case for SM. She is not OP unplayable against. She is just THAT boring - you don't have things to do, you are just stuck in a loooooong match. And having killer that actively reduces player base is just not cool at all. There are many instances of people asking streamers if they EVER had fun game against this killer. That speaks of itself. If the killer is ruining the game for majority of player base - maybe it is actually reasonable to change said killer?
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I like the idea. Remove visible area, make those drones smaller, if you are within the area, your aura is visible (at all times) - making her very good surveillance killer. Make drones area a bit larger and make her still loose TR once inside it. Allow drones to be placed anywhere (with exception to extra narrow passages - like pls don't let he bodyblock basement with her drone) - or fully anywhere if they loose collision.
Now this is a good bases for a killer. She would still need something small extra, because at this point she is just conditionally silent M1 killer with bit more info - maybe some kind of teleport between drones could work, or make he be able to mount drones (that are in the air for some time) for extra movement speed boost (0-10% for say 20s depending on how long the drone was in the air without survivors hacking it could do the trick - the idea is for her to be able to take advantage of well-hidden drones), but there might possibly be other better ideas how to buff her a little bit extra.
But this concept starts to be close to ideal (also hacking drones would now have much less value, so maybe remove SM speed boost once hacked - drones should now be well hidden, so we can consider hacking drones as a reward for finding it).
This would immediately change her from 3gen camping boring killer into stealth-speedy chaser (which IMO works better with lore too)
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@Marius1234456918 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3419257#Comment_3419257
The only people who think it is a big deal to have bigger fov are survivors who play killer ones a month...
It's a big deal in higher MMR. You know - place where the most prominent counterplay to blight is dodging him at the corner, because he doesn't see you and won't expect your spin at it (which would work exactly never with higher FoV). And this is just one example for many.
If you need higher FoV, pay it up with perk slot. A lot of blights and onis already do that (other killers too, but less) - because it's worth it.