Gandor
Gandor
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@Milo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3412030#Comment_3412030
I think that's the point? It would deter early game tunneling.
Decisive Strike now activates when hooked instead of unhooked.Decisive Strike's timer will pause while hooked or in the dying state.
I just don't get the point of this. Why not just pause while in the dying state?
If the point is kill the perk even more then it currently is... That's like asking for ruin to be just 50% regression. Just. Why?
About the point - it's intended to work only on last hooked person - meaning if u have it but someone else got hooked before the unhook - then according to OP u r free to be tunneled, because somehow that's not tunneling. Meaning if we go back to our ruin example - if it regressed gen once already, then remove ruin for that gen...
I am pretty sure OP just loves to tunnel and just tries to figure some way to nerf the perk even more without making it too obvious...
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@Nos37 said:
- Decisive Strike now activates when hooked instead of unhooked.
- Decisive Strike's timer will pause while hooked or in the dying state.
- Decisive Strike now deactivates when the killer hooks another survivor or the survivor performs a consipcuous action.
- Decisive Strike now stuns the killer for 1 second, plus 1 additional second for each generator remaining.
By activating when hoooked, it's now possible for the perk to deactivate if the killer hooks someone else before the perk user has been unhooked. This means Decisive Strike should no longer punish the killer if they aren't actually tunneling 1 person repeatedly.
The timer pausing prevents the perk from being wasted while on the hook, and prevents the killer from slugging and waiting it out.
The 6 second stun duration should heavily deter/punish tunneling early on, yet a 1 second stun shoud not be a simple "free" escape at the end of the match.
at 1 gen left - it does literally nothing. 1s animation for 1s DS? What is the purpose? Give more chances/time to flash/sabo save? I don't think that's good idea. At 2 gens it's the exact same thing, it just doesn't look that way (1s running time is not even enough to vault window when you are literally dropped on top of it - you will get M1'd immediately).
Just make it 5s again
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411979#Comment_3411979
Someone's being dramatic..
Who? OP or the person you are responding to? Because both suggestions sound kind of stupid IMO
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What about having 4 gens instead of 5 then? Should even out with this change. Full package or none of those 2. I prefer keeping the game as is.
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Sounds like a horrible idea. You need to be certain distance from killer (0 distance does not work). You need to be close enough. You need to be facing killer. You need to spend time going for the flash save (be in right position). Why would you also need to have whole beam on killer? That makes no sense - it's already punishing enough as is.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411677#Comment_3411677
He has some super broken high tier add-ons, but so many ######### add-ons.
I wouldn't mind nerfing those strong add-ons if he got more options.
Like sure. It would be nice. I don't deny this. But on the other hand - you really have pyramid or freddy that have no good addons. I think there's a priority to those changes and even if I agree pinhead should have some addons changed, it's not needed as much as those other 2...
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411904#Comment_3411904
Not really interested in just boosting the speed of the Killer as a solution.
Maybe reduce the initial number of Pallets generated at the start, and introduce building pallets over the course of the match as an option for Survivors? This lack of Pallets at the start also creating a void where misinformation play becomes more important to do ok in chase, which can be facilitated by giving Survivors tools to suppress the information they emit to the Killer?
(EG: Crouching/Walking suppresses Blood Pools, Crouching suppresses Grunts of Pain)
Sure. Fully usable for SWF that plays like a team. For soloQ? Well. Are we trying to loose them so hard?
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411697#Comment_3411697
That sounds like a new chase tool that isn't just the same old loop and drop a Pallet, promoting more mind-game play and introducing more chase variety.
Would the current focus on Vaults/Pallets being the main chase tools need to be tweaked in order to fit this new tool in? Yes.
Ok. If there was a way how to buff killer chase to equalize it, then sure. But I doubt that's possible at this point. That's why I am skeptical. You increase a speed of killer a little bit and suddenly equal loops are a lot killer favored. That sounds bad to me.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411690#Comment_3411690
this is a matter of the location of the totem. if it's in a central area but also in a hard to reach spot, you will almost always get value and killer either wastes lots of time snuffing it constantly or won't bother at all. and that's the problem with boons. someone said totem placements is the problem but like, if boons make the totem spots a problem, why not fix boons instead?
There are exactly 2 maps that make it problematic - ironworks and badham. You might argue for 2floor maps like midwitch or gideon, but I don't find it so problematic there. Anyway - what does it matter if the effect is usually not worth it? Also Ironworks (strongest map for this abuse) can't be even reliably picked.
So again - boons as a whole are at best very situational now. I presume you will not see it very much so I see no reason for any more nerfs
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I think current state is fine. Slugging is one of important and risky tools killer has. I don't want to see the state that was in PTB.
If we are talking about killer slugging someone at end game - one of the solution I would be ok with is having recovery (only the very last part - pickup by other survivors should still take minimal time and current time to get to that state is actually balanced in my opinion) take a lot of time. And by a lot of time - I mean 1min or even more (and that should be true even if survivor has used-up unbreakable). That way killer will be forced to eventually pick someone up - but at the same time killer will not be hard-pressed for time when he needs the pressure to chase.
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@GensByDaylight said:
Maps.
Everyone knows that maps are the most unbalanced thing in the game, and if they were just reworked....
Map offerings wouldn't make the killer enraged, in turn reducing tunneling and camping. Maps with 8 or 30 pallets wouldn't occur, making absurdly one sided games very rare. Instead of nerfing individual survivor and killer perks, which causes backlash, maps, which no one will get mad about if you do, should be changed.
The main maps that should be reworked are:
Garden of Joy, Mothers Dwelling, Fractured Cowshed, and Badham(Reduce loop quality and reduce pallet count.)
Midwich, Dead Dawg Saloon, and East RPD.(Increase safe pallet count and increase loop quality)
Groaning Storehouse and Haddonfield (Remove infinites).
BHVR, fixing maps seems like a no-brainer. There will be no resentment from the community, the game will be more balanced, and people will be happy!
Any maps that I'm missing or any issues with this?
Edit: I was in the middle of a 35 minute Dull Merchant game, so I forgot one of the most obvious things about maps! Gen location, maps like haddonfield need to have their gens moved as well!
I think Borgo is bigger issue then Cowshed or Badham. Gideon should loose some pallets for slightly increased size and a few windows. And both wretched shop and wrecker's yard could favor killer a bit less.
But I generally agree - make extremes less of an issue - nerf most favoring map to both sides more balanced (but don't swing it on the other side).
Anyway - I don't believe there is single infinite in the game. There are god loops, but 0 infinites. Last infinite went away with old headonfield.
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What about making him also 150% movement speed default and extending his nightfall killer instinct by +40m and make him get his nightfall 500% quicker? /s
Sure - dredge is one of the weaker killers (but not weak). He could use a small buff. But this proposal just goes beyond that and then some
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@KenwanObinobi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411727#Comment_3411727
You can extend the chase more than 5 minutes on Garden of Joy just by using the windows and there is a god pallet there as well... It is enough to finish the trial and give an automatic loss to the killer.
Moreover the building is reachable from pretty much anywhere on the map if you have SB. Your SWF mate tell you the killer comes to you, you sprint in the building. Killer cannot do anything.
If you get chased for 5 minutes on ANY map, than I am 100% certain that's a skill issue. No if's or buts. Even considering it huge hyperbole - 5 minutes is just way too long. I can literally pick up new killer I have never played before and get down under 2 minutes on any pub match - using just knowledge of basic M1 killers.
If I take one of my better killers, then I have 0 issues to win on that map - more often then loose (but sure - taking dredge and finding myself on that map is rough - but still not impossible)
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@KenwanObinobi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411286#Comment_3411286
There are two windows creating two semi-infinite loops. Once one loop is blocked, go for the other window, rinse and repeat.
Only one window can be blocked at a time... You have 16k messages here, surely 10k hours on DbD and you haven't noticed it ? How on earth is it possible ?
That's not true. Technically the only theoretical limit is somewhere in like 8 windows that can be blocked at the same time (the only limit is that vaulting and walking takes some and each block is for X seconds - don't know the time, but it should be very approximately 20s). I have seen quite a few times bad killer looping LT without bamboozle and survivor blocking both windows at said tile until he had to leave.
You might be mistaken, because bamboozle blocks just last vaulted window. This is specific to the perk - and yes in case of this perk if you block one window, then the other one gets unblocked immediately.
Anyway - the last true infinite in the game was in old Haddonfield main - and this got fixed even some time before it. We have some god loops - but 0 infinites if you know what you are doing (and on the other hand 2x LT-tiles right next to each other can be literal infinites for weak killer players).
Also GoJ is not super difficult to play as killer because of the main. The reason why it favors survivors so much is, that all loops can be so well connected to each other so reliably and safely. If you want to nerf it - make at least 1/2 of filler pallets unsafe (but to compensate it - do something about Midwitch please. It's horrible for survivors for the longest time ever)
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I am all for reducing camping and tunneling, but there needs to be some bounds to it.
Specifically considering camping:
Say I leave the hook, but I see everyone is hiding/doing gens until the very last second. So I return to the hook for last 5-10s before next stage. I think this gave survivors ample opportunity to save the survivor safely and it's actually survivor team that should be punished for their play. Hook should not stop just because survivors ignored their teammate.
But for a killer that facecamps survivor (especially on the hill/in the basement) - yes. This is boring and should be discouraged (not deleted tho - it should just not be a good play most of the time).
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I don't play the killer as he is too hard. But I think I have a better idea (sure I can be totally wrong).
First of Billy needs an addon pass. Like if you make this basekit - everyone would just use lo-pro, because that's the only other addon that makes sense on him - making every Billy identical to each other. I would like to see more variability in this killer.
Second thing - as you correctly pointed out, both engravings are a problem to starting players. It's better to have basekit easier for general population (as I am writing this - I do count with addons rework making more strategies possible for him). I think it might be better idea to combine those 2 into 1 that has low rarity (yellow or brown) - so that there are abundance of this addon all the time + it also provides some variability of 1 additional addon to make a little (but not too high) more distinction for all the curve Billys.
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I really like this idea. And I think even 500BP is actually fine. It's not about giving really some huge benefit (that would promote imaginary debate @Emeal spoke about). It's about the sentiment - I enjoyed the game with you and want to show it. So in my eyes 500 is just fine - everything above 10K BP is just a bad idea (and 10K is already too much)
It's already possible for survivor to do this - but only in case said survivor wins (or if killer bestow escape to survivor). You already can drop your item in front of killer. But making it more direct + possible even if survivor gets murdered/killer in case of both win and loose - providing such a feedback is nice.
One more detail - make it visible that player X gave you the reward. Do not just include it into table (or if you do, show it as an extra - like +X in different color and in last tab of endgame chat - just do not include it under one of existing 4 columns like Brutality/lightbringer etc). It defeats the purpose if it's just another bloodpoints. It ideally needs to be some kind of unobtrusive pop-up ("toast" if you know the terminology, small window on the right side that hides itself after a few seconds if you don't know it). Bonus points if every other player can see who gave who a tip.
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I think it's good idea to suppress grunts/pools of blood after unhook (during basekit BT time). It's a bad idea to have it all the time.
Reasoning being - tunneling is already too rewarding and nerfing said strategy (a little - it will still not help against hard-core tunnel where survivor never leaves line of sight of killer) promotes healthier gameplay. But adding it as an option to chase is not a good way to go. This would not help less experienced survivors and for good people there are usually already options (not counting S-tier killers/OP addons) - chases are fine the way they are and don't need any additional killer nerf. Killer should not really be in danger of loosing whole chase because of a cheeky FoV tech and then some timely walking behind some obstacle - that doesn't sound fair to me.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411682#Comment_3411682
Circle of healing is still a great perk overall. It allows for quick resets and works very well with coordinating teams
I wrote it several times - I do not agree. The requirements make it too situational. If you are not within CoH reach, you and somebody else need to travel to it. If you travel for longer then 4-8s (probably closer to those 4, depends on where you want to go after healing), then it's better to heal on the spot and not go anywhere - and this presumes CoH already stands. But it also requires quite some setup time - making it net negative.
The only time where it's really useful is if everybody needs to reset (travel time gets watered down) or if you happen to already be in radius (but being in radius means it needs to be close to killer AND he must not stomp it at the same time). Or if you are soloQ/no-comms SWF to actually inform other users you are here and need healing (but usually nobody can't be bothered to travel to you so... Not useful)
So as I said - 3 of boons are very situational to be helpful and 1 is outright bad.
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@Phasmamain said:
Boons are fine with only 1 being great, 1 being average and 2 being bad. There’s way more problematic perks right now
Which one is great? I see 3 boons that are very situational and 1 that is garbage no matter what. Boons are dead. You will not see them most of the games now. Only people that like to bring off meta stuff will pick any of them from time to time.
If they extended the range of boons, they would become somewhat useful (those 3 situational), because their situation would come to play more often. As it stands, I don't see myself bringing ANY boon if I don't want to play some kind of troll game/gimmick.
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This creates more problems than it solves.
@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
You would need to nerf most add-ons for this. I don't really see benefits, just bunch of more issues to worry about.
Some killers have barely two decent add-ons.
I will rather have that continue with killer addon pass. Nemesis, PH and Pinhead have so many trash add-ons.
I agree with Nemi and PH. But Pinhead? His Iri and purple are super good (sure, they are not tombstone piece, they don't really need nerf - if we disregard original pain and facecamping killer). His browns are fine for being brown. And you can find a good yellow and green addons for their rarity. I don't think pinhead has bad addons overall - I would much rather move Billy's up for consideration, or even Oni's although he is also not super bad (meaning - Pinhead has some awful addons, but he has good addons in all rarities or for certain playstyle - even both Iri addons are good which is not a norm)
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@YourAverageSpy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411324#Comment_3411324
Survivors can open the gate instantly and delay the endgame collapse when it's left at 99% pretty much giving the killer no chance to do anything and it sounds like abusing a game mechanic to avoid consequence and the only time a killer would wack an exit gate is if it is already at 99%, bloodwarden, or is letting the survivor(s) go.
EGC wasn't in the game before. It was introduced to break a state of game, where killer waits for survivor and survivor just hides - make the game progress in some way.
To resolve this, devs decided to kill all survivors once 2/4 minutes run up (giving advantage to killer instead of having even, but boring outcome). Solving the issue for good (killer can force EGC or chase, survivors have to leave or die to entity)
Now you come and call this killer-favoring mechanics survivor-exploit.
And basically the same thing with BT - without it anyone can facecamp survivor, ignore everything around him (meaning other survivors trying to unhook said survivor), just waiting until unhooked person touches ground, but before he can move an inch and immediatelly downing him again.
You call this fair game from killer's point of view? Do you really consider 0 counterplay (there is exactly 0 possibility to even bodyblock for unhooked survivor, let alone unhook him safely or vive him chance to move to loop) fair?
Don't you feel a little killer biased now?
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@[Deleted User] said:
- Gideon maps totally broken, needs a deep rework, it is hell to play with some killers there (Billy, Nurse, Knight, pretty much all M1)
Actually out of all the indoor maps I find Gideon best for Billy. Probably the only one where I usually do well.
You forgot, that gideon is actually one of the best maps for nurse too (imagine there is no midwitch in game. Which map favors nurse more then gideon?).
Overall I have to agree with @DaddyMyers_Mori . I pretty much disagree with everything in this post with a few exceptions (SM is indeed broken - and I don't talk about her power. Her design is absolutely the worst no matter how high or how low her kill rate is)
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I have just about same ideas. Let survivors spawn on hook and freeze killer on a single spot. The survivors that cobe can then proceed against frozen killer.
Horrible post in my opinion
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@FFirebrandd said:
Here's a better idea... make the other boons more like CoH then give killers the ability to break boon totems base kit.
Let's be clear here... with a 14s setup time, your team need to get multiple uses out of a boon for it to be worth it. You will basically never get that on boons that need itself, a survivor, and a killer all in the same area. It'll just get snuffed. Or it's abusing elevation differences which is bad for other reasons.
It's never just 14s. You don't spawn on totem. It can take you a short time if you happen to find totem, but this immediatelly goes to bin if you NEED to find totem - suddenly it can take minutes (in worst case) to find one.
Also even current CoH is somewhere on the map. You will most likely not be in it's radius - and if you are, your closest teammate will not be. If you need to travel for longer then 4-8s (depending on if you need to go back after heal or you continue in direction of boon, but most likely u will need to go back) on the map to get that heal, then you are better off not going to that boon and rather heal on that spot itself - and this totally ignores prep time.
Overall, boons can situationally be good. But you need stars to align perfectly. For this reason, it's the same as mettle of man - it can save the whole game on it's own, but chances are the perk will just take away some preperation time and give nothing back in return.
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I don't like this idea. Butchering killer because some players can't handle them? Ok. I have a little bit worse reflexes - I want accessibility option for game to always hit great skillchecks for me - counts also for merciless storm.
You see the problem? Like don't get me wrong. I understand that it sucks to have problem with hearing. I would even be perfectly OK if people had option to sign off from certain killers (plague and clown because of some phobias). I get why other people don't want that (blight and nurse having problems find a game), but it still makes more sense to me. But basically destroying the killer for everyone else is... Not ideal to say the least.
Also, the killer (basekit) is perfect the way it is. The only thing that needs adjustment are those 3 OP addons (and if you have spare time and u don't feel like fixing burning issues - she also has a few totally worthless addons too)
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3410680#Comment_3410680
Yeah, desperate actions could be turned off after 5gens are done.
But Im open to the existence of Perks that allow Desperate Actions during the endgame. It would be a commendable feature.
Sure. But don't make it too OP. Keep in mind coordinated SWF also exists. Let it not be autowin (only a good help). Then it makes sense ("wasted" perkslot during gen-progress time is considerable thing after all)
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@Pavel_Ch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409704#Comment_3409704
who are you trying to fool by saying you won without tunneling and camping? It is clear from the screenshot that two people received only 7-8 thousand points each, did they even manage to touch the generators? I can provide a screenshot of what games without camping and tunneling actually look like, and such matches stretch out for 30+ minutes.
Why would I do that? That was regular gameplay. This happens normally if you get 2 quick downs and team needs to recover/unhook/heal instead of doing anything useful. As you can see, the other 2 got only 10k more (because they probably got the unhooks). It's not that hard really
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@Emeal said:
In this thread its all about the concept of adding new gameplay to stale undesired gameplay outcomes.
So its a tale as old as this game, that Camping and Tunneling is less desirable to interact with. But I think we can all agree that if we look at the game as it is, its sorta the most logically standoff we can end up having with the game as it is now. If a Killer sets it in his mind they want a specific Survivors dead, they can Camp/ Tunnel /Repeat, Survivors are on the bad side of that, there isn't much gameplay around it. I think this is bad.
So with this thread I want to hear your creativity to think of ways we can level to playing field between Survivors and Killers in a Camping situation with adding Gameplay elements around Camping and Tunneling.
Now a Gameplay Element is a thing that a player does something with, Example: flashlights it takes skill to use and you can blind the Killer and save your friend. Ofc not without risk. A thing that isn't a gameplay Element is like PyramidHead's cages, which can relocate should PH get too close to them, This isn't a Gameplay element (its an automatic system) because nothing is played in doing it, he just walks in and it happens, no counter play from Survivors.
For the sake of this thread, We will assume bHVR can create a system of detection that can check if a Killer is Face Camping and check if a Killer is tunneling a recently unhooked Survivor. Now we can design new Gameplay Elements that can give proper, not passive counter play to Face Camping and Tunneling.
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Here are MY Ideas on how bHVR could implement gameplay to counter Camping/Tunneling, but someone more keen could probably do better.
THE KILLER TACKLE
So the system is in effect, the Bubba is detected as FaceCamping this should unlock a Survivor mode called "desperate action" while in this mode I think Survivors should be able to tackle the Killer to stun them and cause a Power cooldown of X seconds. Ofc. the Killer might hit you, which would be bad, but an attack can be baited out and then tackle the Killer. This should allow for plenty of counter play.
Now desperate actions with one Survivor alone trying to save their teammate would not be very effective, likely you would leave wounded. That would be a regular trade, like normal. But two Survivors could do it, allowing for two stuns. Two stuns would allow the unhooked to run the farthest, three max for a face camping situation if all three survivors join in. So the more Survivors who join, the more painful it will be for the Killer to FaceCamp.
KILLER BLOCKING
So the system is in effect, the Wraith is detected as being a Tunneler. What this means is that we can put another "desperate action" so why not something that makes it easier to body block the Killer, spread your arms and block the Killers path. This would work by pressing a button when looping near a Killer that is chasing a tunneled and the survivors will face the killer and extend their arms making their hit box to the Killer bigger.
If this can only be done near the Killer, It wont look like you are asserting your dominance in front of the Killer.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8L32XZM9JFS6/image.png
Cool Cosmetic Jeff.
I also think Survivors should have the ability to throw items at the Killer as a "desperate action" if they are tunneling. But this post is getting long already, if you think its worth hearing let me know.
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Common Critiques of this approach I have gotten:
Why add such an elaborate System to fix FaceCamping, lol just do an automatic solution that forces it. Dont waste bHVR's time with development, Just force the Killer away/ our or ban from FaceCamping.
- This game is a game and that means we are supposed to play the scenario. This also means we should be allowed counter play, My Philosophy here is that this should be the way of dealing with the issue.
- I respect the Killer's part of this game, if they chose to try FaceCamping I think we as players should respect their choice. They have agency and they have made their mind up that is commendable, It is fine if they want to dig the heels in and hold the game, but that does not mean Survivors should have no counterplay or that all the cards should be in the Killer's Hand. This is why I think bHVR should do this.
- I believe in the setting, the Slasher Horror setting this game is trying to emulate. The classic movie situation of a victim trying to escape the Killer, blood, sweat and tears. I believe Survivors can get killed by not outsmarting the Killer and the Killer can kill them based on agreed upon rules of the game, but things should happen naturally in this Slasher Theme, not by fake hand holding systems.
An Automatic Solution to FaceCamping and Tunneling is not a play, it does not respect the Killer's choice/agency or the Survivor's mistakes with the rules and its very fake and hand-holding, I don't feel like it feels like it is in theme with what I believe the Game is trying to emulate. This is why my Suggestion is the way it is.
This is so OP for Survivors, you are making them so Strong.
This may be true, but if so bHVR can buff Killers again. I believe this game would be better served by more gameplay, more options for its players in the long run than not giving Survivors adequate counter gameplay.
Thanks for reading this.
I like those ideas. Just one little think to keep in mind. There's no camping or tunneling at end game. So do not enable such tactics after 5th gen pops. Otherwise it sounds very good :)
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@foodie said:
Ah the good ol days when all 4 survivors could escape through the hatch
Keys used to be worth it esp when you wanted to escape early ;)
That worked only if you fixed all 5 gens. That one was the least busted part of keys. Real busted thing was taking 3 BNP's hatch offering and single key - no matter what if killer killed 2 people, the other 2 were guaranteed escape at that point (franklin's or some very sneaky key camping excluded - still this was very unfair).
It's good that hatch/key was changed in this regard. The problem is, that they just removed it and called it a day. Like removing 97% of item and considering it good to be still in a game is.... Stupid I think
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@pigslittlepet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3410625#Comment_3410625
Are you just trying to get a rise out of people? A good survivor on the right map can easily make a chase last 2 mins. A pre dropper on the game for example. Bedham is another. I competent survivor can keep any killer without a strong anti loop going for 2 mins easy.
If you chase someone on the game for 2 minutes straight, you deserve to loose. No if's or buts about it.
You should chase him where it makes sense - create a dead zone - and when he is trying to leave it, then leave the chase. Be prepared for next one - this works super-duper good especially on the game - a map that has almost exclusively 1-time resources (so everywhere the chase already happened - there should be a deadzone).
Badham - I fully disagree with you. Sure - the map is tough on killer. I agree with that. But it's not really possible to go from pallet to pallet and be always safe (a lot of pallets can be played around - not all mind you). But again - if you run behind someone mindlessly for 2 minutes - then you deserve to loose.
Brute-forcing the game into win is just plain stupid - for both sides. Imagine each map had infinite pallets/self-repair safe pallets. You just drop them every time to bruteforce infinite chase. Would you be happy about it? Would you call that a good design? If no - why would same thing from killer's side (just run behind survivor, let him drop pallet, break it and continue until all pallets run out) be any different and why should it guarantee you a win? That's just stupid
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@HommeBizarre said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409776#Comment_3409776
Ace in the hole exist for a reason you know...
Yes. It exists. Shattered hope also exists so why did we nerf boons? Blood echo & fearmonger exists so why nerf DH? Potential energy exists so why nerf CoB/OC?
You get the point? Making thing effective only in case you happen to bring a perk to make it do something (it would still not even do much) is IMO very bad design
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It doesn't matter. CoH is already dead after last nerf. U don't need to change it. It won't be used either way
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@HommeBizarre said:
Keys doesn't need to be removed. They need an addon pass
We don't have much items as survivors, and the items they are adding are just in-game items that we can't bring with us (ex: flashbang)
it would not fix problem with finding them in chests (especially green one). Just remove them at this point. Or make them do something totally different/new for a change.
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@Dsnooz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409733#Comment_3409733
Skull Merchant is the problem, we shouldn't be changing maps just because a boring killer was added to the game.
More lockers to allow for Dredge made sense. [It didn't really change map balance, but allowed the killer to use their power].
To add to this, Dead Dawg can also 3 gen on the other side, it can also 3 gen in the street, and you can be stuck with gallows, center street, and behind the stables. All of these combinations are possible when survivors don't survey the area around them. Dead Dawg can 3 gen in many ways.
Survivors could bring maps, clairvoyance, deja vu, or visionary to get a better understanding of where generators are. But they choose not to. When I play solo survivor I frequently bring these after the HUD update. [Before Bond was a survivor's best friend, but now I only need it if I'm using a flashlight]. The HUD + [any method to locate generators] is a ton of information for a player to make educated, skillful choices on.
Haddonfield had a unique problem that generators were effectively guaranteed to spawn close together. A player could know they had a 3-gen to protect at the loading screen, and it could frequently be a small patrol route for 4 generators. Dead Dawg has two guaranteed generators [gallows and saloon], which don't inherently form a 3-gen. They technically have close proximity, but the killer has to get to the second floor of Saloon which will always be a long patrol route.
as you said - saloon can have multiple 3gens, but I have yet to see single spawn where 3gen would not be "really bad" (but as we can see from picture, it can be "outright horrible") - this is very consistent on the map. Same thing with azarov's and to high degree also for suffo pit. It doesn't matter you don't know exact 3gen spawn. You can realize this within first 20s of the match at latest (if you go for it specifically). At least autoheaven and mac millan contain multiple maps - so you take a gamble is you bring 3gen killer/build with those maps. But saloon? You can be sure it will just work out.
I am pretty sure devs will not remove SM and won't fix knight's 3gen. But even if they did - there are other killers that can do almost the same (Hag, Trapper). Making it still the problem (albeit - much lesser one with the alternatives). For this reason it's just more sensible to fix maps with oppressive 3gen spawn. It's not like it will cease to exists altogether (you can always find good 3gen in the game or midwitch - it's just almost always much less oppressive). There will still be 3gens. Just reduce the worst offenders.
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@Dsnooz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3407767#Comment_3407767
Agreed, Dead Dawg isn't the problem. The survivors are always guaranteed one generator with a long patrol route [main building]. Survivors are in full control whether they 3-gen on Dead Dawg Saloon.
Remove knight and skull merchant and I would possibly agree with you. Currently? Nope. The map is in fact THE problem (but so are other maps like it - like Azarov's and suffo pit)
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@mejchar01 said:
guys do u think u can delete few pallets in the game map ? im just asking because that map is survivor sided.. 33 pallets + ? i didnt did anything else in the game than destroying pallets again and again .. destroyed 20 pallets and there was another and another.. i will afk games on this map because its no worth time spent there.
Consider yourself lucky. The map was already nerfed to have 25 instead of 32-34 pallets as it used to be.
Also the map has nothing but pallets + is very small. Like even Otz (killer main streamer) considers the map killer sided at this time. So... Sure - remove some more pallets from the map, but add windows (and pls better windows then like the one next to gate that can only possibly work if killer doesn't know about it) + possibly make it a bit larger - so it's balanced for both sides.
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@IWasLrft2Die said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409711#Comment_3409711
Yeah the killers I primarily use are very weak. They could use some buffs
And to be clear, I'm not saying it's unwinnable with them. I can still get pretty consistent 4ks with each but it's a lot more tense and punishing nowadays imo than it was a while back
Maybe your MMR changed? From what I can tell - it feels like there's more SWF players (because soloQ is insufferable - at least for me - at least I personally stopped soloQ altogether now) - which is double-edged sword, because u can abuse their altruism.
Sure - if you get more wins, you will face a bit better survivors. But I still win most of my games (but - I also get 0K from time to time)
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@IWasLrft2Die said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409704#Comment_3409704
Well, to be fair, spirit isn't necessarily indicative of general gameplay
I do mostly gravitate to the weak killers though (Trapper, myers, pig primarily)
You are asking for blanket buffs.
Also I have similar (not same - spirit is indeed strong - even with brown addons - imagine I brought MDR+amulet) results with Bubba, Legion, Pinhead, Plague, Doctor. Other killers I play are a bit behind, but still - no problem with playing them.
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@MSX_exe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409652#Comment_3409652
You can just remove hook grabs to balance it out, but sure 😂
That is VERY far from fair trade. Hook grabs do nothing vs instadown. Hook grabs still force trades. Hook grabs still do 0 against deliberate and easy tunneling. On the other hand that base corrupt is free 30s for killer (that he will most likely spend destroying breakable walls with safery) + easy chases next to hook (it's strong indirect buff for awakened awareness). Those are just not on the same level
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@IWasLrft2Die said:
Killer does feel a bit less fun. You have to me more precise and there's much less room for error nowadays it seems. You kinda have to sweat more than you did years ago imo. I still primarily play killer but it's getting less exciting and more frustrating
I totally disagree:
This is my usually experience this patch... No camp, no tunnel. This is just most fresh game. But others look very similar...
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Sure. Let's do that. But kill rates are high, so to balance this - every time killer is 10m within hook (also hooking action counts) - survivor is teleported somewhere else on the map with minimal distance 40m. Counts also for basement. That will fix camping and to high degree also tunneling. 2 birds with 1 change
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Well. I have totally different experience. I reduceed my survivor gameplay, because it's not feasible any more if not playing 4man. However on killer, the games are pretty chill - especially (but not limited to) on strong killers (like spirit). The games looks now like I get strong survivor map, or I win. The game is so much easier on killer (no DH, 100% sure in 1st chase, but probably also later in game as ppl are stopping to play that, heals take ages so ppl are usually injured or gens are crawling = easy quick chases).
Sure. I can always get borgo on Bubba, or badham with dredge. Those games are usually not won. But then I get midwitch/RPD on anyone and it's just free win most of the times.
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3408874#Comment_3408874
I would say that tunneling was and remain prevalent because of current gen times... a killer can ill afford to let 4 survivors roam free until end game.
Currently... after 1 down it isn't uncommon to see 2 gen pop and after the second down... 2 more.
Now you don't to be a math genius to know that 2 down for 4 gens isn't great for killer.
Tunneling/camping may not be fun on the receiving end but really... it's just a method for killer to "force" survivors off gens somehow.
Until killer gets 2 simultaneous down... there is no hope for victory and even after that it's very dicey still if survivors brought BNP and prove thyself.
Those strat were part of the game since the beginning and people just need to learn the counter plays/perks to it.
If what you said was true, even tunneling would not be good - which clearly is not the case. I suspect the problem is, that you just commit chase you can't win - making your chase time take 2+mins and then you wonder why you lost the game. Well, if you got outplayed, then you got outplayed. You can't just ask for game to extend gen times to 4 minutes, so that you can have bad chase and still win.
What's worse - suppose that gen time was indeed increased like that. What would stop killers from face-camping tunneling if this got implemented? What would stop them to do that in case they start to loose a little? Also once again - what is the correct counterplay for bubba facecamping survivor into death (and what should be done if your gen times got longer)?
So in short - your idea would make the game absolutely unplayable
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3408293#Comment_3408293
it didn't originate from DH or CoH... but these were the perks that allowed the survivors to force a stalemate on it.
effectively causing the game to never end even when survivor should have lost long ago.
right now, either side wins in a timeframe that makes sense thanks to the combination of nerfs but imo its mainly the nerf to survivors that fixed it.
COPIUM
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Spirit is good as-is. I have good results on her even with brown. Anyway she is still #3 strongest killers. There's 0 reason to buff her over say Freddy. It's like saying "let's buff specifically SWF, they don't feel strong enough"
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Agreed. Remove all red addons. Both killer and survivor. And I don't mean specifically rarity. I mean OP stuff. In meyer's case, that's tombstone piece. For blight it's C33+alch ring. For spirit it's MDR+amulet. For plague it's both iri's. Huntress iri hatchet. Clown pinky finger. Etc.
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376416#Comment_3376416
The fact is we live in the present.
None of what you wrote invalidate any of my arguments.
This patch actually proved me right.
By nerfing DH and CoH, 3 gen meta went away.
The gen kick builds still works if you wish to play like that... albeit it's less effective due to nerf.
What makes killer able to play other builds now is the absence of a meme perk (DH) that was so strong it had a 35% pick rate. Also to consider the nerf to CoH that breaks the ability of survivors to induce endless stalemates.
For reference, killer's most picked perks had around 11% (lethal pursuer and the CoB/overcharge)
if you think I'm wrong, dream on.
3gen is not gone. It just moved to the only killer that is capable of stalling for extended time = skull merchant (and knight to some degree). It's not feasible on other killers, because CoB+OC now suck hard. That is THE ONLY reason why all the other killers stopped 3genning (and also why so many threads say that the patch helped survivors disproportionally more - they can't just hold the game forever)
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I would like it
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@Archael said:
I would suggest something maybe little controvercial.
Few medkit lines
Medical bags with bonus for altruistic healing speed:
- Brown medical bag +35% healing speed
- Yellow medical bag +40% healing speed
- Green medical bag +45% healing speed
- purple medical bag +50% healing speed
First aid kits, with more charges for both altruistic and selfheal (2 heals instead of one):
- Brown 30 charges
- Yellow 36 charges
- Green 42 charges
- Purple 48 charges
Camping bags with self healing speed:
- Brown -25% self healing speed
- Yellow -20% self healing speed
- Green -15% self healing speed
- Purple -10% self healing speed
Dressing Disposal Bags with item efficiency for both altruistic and selfheal (would be something else because effect is the same as with first aid kits):
- Brown -25%
- Yellow = regular efficiency
- Green +25%
- Purple +50% efficiency
and all medkit related addons would apply to any type of medkits
this would be extended to other items too, like toolboxes, some for gen repair speed, some with sabotage bonusses.
Also addons could be then tweaked and add new effects, like reducing heamorrage, reduce grunts of pain etc.
If you cut your numbers by half (or maybe even a little bit more), then this sounds like one of the reasonable things to make medkits distinct from one another. Sounds cool.
But I would personally be most happy, if every medkit had entirely different small effect (like one being speedy, another being quiet, another temporary removing hemorrage, etc). Make each medkit unique in some ways - your version would still make all the medkits almost the same if you found it in a chest...