Gandor
Gandor
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- Gandor
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@Nos37 said:
This also applies to Mount Ormond Resort. If they have Boil Over, run upstairs into one of the back corner rooms, you're not hooking without dropping, which means Boil Over kicks in.
OR
Make Boil Over an exhaustion perk and wiggling free causes exhaustion (only if you have Boil Over equipped, not basekit), so that it can't deny a hook back-to-back-to-back...
Ormond has counters (e.g let them wiggle into drop making them stagger into insta-hit, or drop before wiggle progress because there are breakable walls).
Badham is much worse in this - even if u eventually can hook people abusing main, it takes a lot of time while not occupying all the survivors - which is a problem.
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OP's idea would work, provided devs at the same time buff all regression perks. The result would be a little lower regression for extra perk slot (and sometimes it could be even better with stronger regression applied on down (jolt) follower by stronger regression when hooking because 15s passed (pain res) followed by gen kick (pop)).
However - I don't trust devs to do both things at the same time (and think about all combinations/situations possible). This makes the idea just pure bad.
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@Mushmallow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3435113#Comment_3435113
It attacks the second her blink ends. If you're somehow attacking during the blink, that's a bug. Also you're incorrect, aim dressing also severely affects Nurse. It has gotten comp players denied out of what should have been hits as well.
Reread what I wrote. Yes. It is a bug. No it shouldn't work like that. Yes it robs killers of good hits too
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For all those people saying nurse is fine...
Watch how her power works. It used to be, she can't attack until her blink finishes.
That's no longer true - at very minimum she is able to hit survivor by blinking over them and pressing attack button during blink (and without turning her head) - resulting in her hitting people with literraly her back.
I have done that as a killer - so no. It's not just desynch. It's her autoaim locking on target and then hitting it even if said nurse had 0 business landing said hit (and same thing can be abused by flicking mouse after blinking while holding m1 - the hit will land even if u won't really see the survivor).
On the other hand very similar thing can screw her over - when game decides to target that tree/corner of a wall/barrel instead of hitting where I actually aimed (and I know about aim dressing - this is not it. Nurse has some kind of autoaim that other killers (like spirit) don't have. All killers have aim dressing, but only nurse AFAIK has also autoaim).
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Why make it a rule when technically it's akready part of the game?
Like don't google it - and tell me all 3 perks Vittorio has (quite a new character so you should have looked it up recently).
But say you do remember all 3 of them. I am pretty convinced you basically never use one (so it might as well not exist), tried out second only to realize it's numbers are so safe, that it makes no sense to ever use it and maaaybe you use the third one from time to time in rare occasions (and now you can name which perk is which without me mentioning their abilities).
The point is - they technically released 3 perks, but in practice they did 1 + something to fill their archives...
Same can be said on average for all survivors AND killers
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Picking survivors up is risky action that can result in flashlight save, flashbang save, pallet save, headon save or sabo save.
Take this perk+ebony mori and altruistic plays now suffer a lot (this being YET ANOTHER beamer nerf).
I am convinced this perk would speed up exodus of players if implemented (especially because altruism and chases are most fun interactions for skilled players + survivor is hell to play as beginner vs same-skill killer).
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432344#Comment_3432344
But end game IS massively survivor favored?
They can, 1, just fix the generator and open the gate 2, just enter the hatch 3,just open the gate right after killer closes the hatch, all while killer has to jump the hoops of gate RNG and hatch RNG or even survivor location RNG.
So yeah, end game MUST be neutral just like they say, if killer find the hatch killer wins, if survivor find the hatch survivor wins, no more 2 arbitrary second chances that survivor has for absolutely no reason.
Killer is quicker (covering larger portion of map then survivor during same time). Killer has abilities (that can help with gates too, not just hatch). Killer can even camp hatch to find survivor if he wants to waste everyone's time. Killer can use hatch offering and by the nature of the game - will have huge advantage from it compared to (unprepated) survivor.
No. RNG is biggest factor right now and endgame on average is now pretty even.
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This perk + saloon offering would open last infinite in game. The perk would be worse then smash hit on most maps, but broken on a few of them. Sounds very bad IMO
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433195#Comment_3433195
Maybe if you don't have headphones, but i guarantee you, you can't mistakenly identify it that way, and if you do, then you have a probably have a hearing issue or we aren't playing the same game. Surround sound headphones clearly point out where people are when they are injured.
And regardless, they need to something for deaf and hearing impaired people. In some parts of the world they actually have a legal obligation to provide accessibility features.
At the end of the day. If they release a feature and it effects balance, so what. Why can't we then make balance changes to address that very problem? The survivor terror radius indicator has completely destroyed sadako, and nearly every single survivor streamer, hearing impaired or not, is using the feature. So obviously an already released feature already has problems. And not doing the same thing for killers is heavily biased.
Lastly, there are TON of features they can do for deaf people. Look a this FPS that has an entire feature that shows visual indicators for sound, even taking into account audio occlusion:
The survivor terror radius indicator has completely destroyed sadako, and nearly every single survivor streamer, hearing impaired or not, is using the feature.
And that's why they rightfully did this in patch 6.7.1:
- Terror Radius Visual Feedback
- The Terror Radius Visual Feedback is now displayed when the audio level reaches a certain audible threshold to avoid the indicator being shown when the audio is barely discernible.
Also. For someone that "also has hearing problems", you do hear more then average survivor (if that wasn't true, all spirits would be unjukeable in their power). Because exact location pinpoint is not normal for everyone (but most people can pinpoint approximate location). Especially because most of survivor noises are intermittent (meaning you hear it for a split second and then it's silent and then you hear noise again and then it's silent for some extra time).
Considering our debate so far - it sounds more like you are totally healthy, but you just want wallhacks and hide it in the name of "accessibility". That is absolutely not cool from you.
- Terror Radius Visual Feedback
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Connected loops and bad locker placement just destroy him. If you spawn in headonfield, you can immediatelly say gg (or catch them as regular m1 wothout any real ability).
But low B is not bad. I do play him myself sometimes. He is still fun. He's just way weaker then say artist or plague (solid A options)
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If anything, more killers should be able to catch u at gate with ability. It would be good natural way how to stop tbagging survivors (there are very few injured survivors that tbag slinger or pinhead or healthy survivor twins and so on)
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3429235#Comment_3429235
I love how you say that I have to look at the past as an excuse to not make the game more balance today.
Let me guess, you think that the OG BNP was fine and that the current one don't need nerf?
don't make me laugh...
I am reflecting to your statement of how maps are "now" biased towards survivors - and showing you they went towards killers - directly contrasting it to your statement.
Most of the things @DBDVulture said even don't matter, because even though they are true, they are mostly irrelevant towards map design (and there were other things that helped survivors insanely - the whole game was very much survivor-sided).
The point is, that maps are "these days" much more killer sided then they were and saying "they are absolute farce these days" is just... Weird to say the least.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433211#Comment_3433211
Fence hits only works if the Survivor is right up against the fence itself on the other side of it, if there's any amount of space between the Survivor and the fence then it won't work.
But there are choke points in there where survivor is forced to touch fence. There's 1 in every fence that matters
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432921#Comment_3432921
We'll have to agree to disagree on it then, because i do see it as an issue.
I've seen Survivors entity block the window as well as seen them chain the windows multiple times even with myself vaulting the windows.
It's not even massive distance that's needed, just a fair bit, and if there isn't enough distance then they'll just go to the nearby pallet by the haystacks or the L walls that's closeby the main building.
The only reason u have any problem there is, that you don't know u can hit survivors thru the fence (those white around generator). This information effectively hugely shortens the path for killer making it impossible for survivor to use for looping (it can only be used to move to more favorable section of map or by using pallets next to main - but those ate also not fully safe).
Try it yourself once. The map is strong around cow tree and shack. Main is usable, but not strong segment.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433146#Comment_3433146
Everyone seems like they play more killer compared to you Gandor.
Weird. I remember all the discussions where I was adamant current STBFL is basically fine, that wesker should not be nerfed. That trapper, pig, Freddy, .... Should be buffed. That hexes should get buff.
Weird for most survivor-sided person here. Something does not compute
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433167#Comment_3433167
- Why should they have to have it harder when survivors have now been given the same kinds of tools to allow them to better play survivor?
- That is a false comparison, because you can TRAIN to run faster. And if you have some kind of disability or "don't have legs" they have actual competitions for those kinds of people. But this is a video game, not some physical activity. These are problems that can be solved.
Lastly, nobody has been able to clear explain to me. How is having a visual indicator different. Let me visualize it:
o = injured survivor
x = killer
| = wall
| | o | x | |
I'm the killer, and i HEAR that a survivor is injured on the other side of this wall, i know they are right next to me on the wall in the very middle of it because i can physically HEAR them. For hearing impaired people, they can turn on a feature to give them an indicator to show that there is an injured survivor "in that direction" and then can, just as they could with hearing, deduce that they are on the other side of that wall.
Then another one mentioned.
o = survivor
x = killer
G = generator
T = tree
o G T x
I am the killer, and this is a loud generator that makes it so you can't hear survivor footsteps. This survivor is not injured and they are crouch walking around this generator, but i don't know they are there because i can't hear the footsteps. So i walk away thinking they are elsewhere.
I am now someone who has this accessibility feature turned on, a hearing person was unable to hear the footsteps because the generator blocked the sound of the footsteps from being heard, so, because the footsteps can't be heard, i get no visual indicator, and i think the survivor is not there and i walk away.
How exactly is this giving the hearing impaired person some kind of advantage?
I already wrote you the answer. You just decided to ignore it. But let me visualize.
A, because even healthy person can wrongly identify it like this:
o |
|
| x
|
|
B, because there are some people that would hear the footsteps even thru gen and tree. You can't normalize for them. U need to normalize for "normal" people - which is hard - taking into account all background noise (examples from top of my head - boon, hex, barrels, flickering lights, main in lerys, music in safe rooms on RPD (each map has some loud area btw), fast vaults/failed skillchecks by other players, screams, chase music, killer's own footsteps/abilities, etc) makes it very hard.
But as I stated at the very beginning. If devs a tually manage to pull this off so that it would be useless for "normal" people, but useful for "challenged" people, then such a feature would be awesome. But there's so much room to make this feature OP instead of just accessibility, that it would be very hard.
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@NoHookDC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433164#Comment_3433164
You said the Killer should be teleported. Then you mentioned 'Perhaps a 15sec stun' before admitting no Killer would want that. Which is not admitting the idea is bad, just that Killers would not like it.
Even giving Killers a power cooldown after the teleport would be BS, because certain Killers, like Nurse, rely on their power to even move as a decent speed.
There was a prerequisite for killer to facecamp. At rather short distance. And he would need to not be alone (because otherwise the new meter is going up too slowly to have effect) for the effect to trigger.
But you conveniently didn't see that.
Don't get me wrong. Emeal's panishment is brutal. But only for (presumably - we haven't seen implementation) brutal gameplay.
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@NoHookDC said:
So Survivors getting free self-unhooks is healthy for the game.
But Survivors getting exposed with bloodlust to shorten chases is somehow evil and should never happen.
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
That's up there with 'The visible heart is a good QoL change, but a bigger Killer FoV is not fair'.
Just more Survivor hypocrisy; Anything that benefits Survivors is great for the game. Anything that benefits Killers should never happen. 🤣
You are comparing 2 unrelated things. Compare temporaty things to temporary ones (changes from event to other event things).
Or compare proposed permanent changes for both sides. And I know killers again won that one, because "balance of maps for both sides" seems to adress only survivor favoring maps while leaving midwitch, current RPDs, saloon, wretched shop, wreckes yard, ..... Untouched. Which is much more balance-wise as removing facecamping (and keeping proxy camps into tunnel - btw proxy-into-tunnel was already stronger thing). Not to mention devs willingness to do anything about by far weakest role in the game - soloQ.
Also - after minimal noise for heartbeat change (basically fix for sadako) - if you are healthy, then "visible heartbeat" provides exactly 0 benefit (but I admit, that it is nice looking). However higher FoV provides substantial benefits against different FoV techs, 360's and dodging killer powers (most importantly visible on blight and oni). This would be general killer buff - same as basekit DS (something survivors propose) can't ever be called QOL change against tunneling for exactly the same reasons.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433111#Comment_3433111
So ######### deaf people then? They just shouldn't play killer?
What? No!
1, even deaf people can play killer now perfectly fine. They just have it harder (but not impossible). Meaning they already are not screwed (but I agree they are challeged more).
2, you totally missed my point. The fact, thet you are not Usain Bolt does not preclude you from ever going for a hobby run. If you however have no legs at all, it's fine to give you wheelchair. But it's not OK to give you electric version that is so speedy as Bolt. And I thought I made this point well enough in previous paragraph.
So not using any metaphor - it's ok give you a benefit that most people already have by having average ears. It's not ok giving you for free things, that best people in the world can somehow figure out after a lot of effort and self training. You are asking for perfect echolocation, which almost nobody can get. (And if that's ok, then why not delete any human differences by same argument - and only watch as PC plays against itself)
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@NoHookDC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432992#Comment_3432992
Your idea is so horribly broken and Survivor-sided that I hope BHVR never sees it. There's nothing fair about it; It's simply a way to ensure Survivors never lose another match of DBD ever, and is clearly written by someone who's never played Killer.
- Teleporting the Killer away for a free unhook? Already broken. And Survivors can force it by swarming the hook. How biased do you have to be to think Survivors deserve a free unhook simply because they want it?
- Forcing a FIFTEEN SECOND STUN when teleported is ALSO broken as hell. This is not even 'For fairness'. This is 'Because I hate Killers & want them to suffer' and 'I don't play Killer, so I don't care how fun the role is'.
- Imagine trying to RIGHTFULLY defend a hook from Survivors that are nearby, only to be teleported away & stunned for 15 seconds while Survivors heal unopposed.
And if your friends would not come back unless they got such a broken, abusable, horrible idea that would make Killer unplayable & gift-wrap every match in Survivor's favor; Then not much is being lost. Saying 'My friends will only come back if they can never lose' is not really the endorsement for your idea that you think it is.
You are reading things, that are not written. So yes. Congratulations. You have just shown us straw man fallacy.
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I just can't stand this argument of 1 gen vs 1 hook being 1/5th vs 1/12th of objectives. It's so damn flawed.
1, pallets don't respawn
2, items and perks on survivor will generally not recharge
3, killer needs 4 kills which is most of the time less then 12 hooks, survivors can still 0 escape even if 4 are alive once last gen pops
4, generators don't respawn - effectively shrinking all maps very noticeably
5, also 3genning needs to be adressed (liked to point 4)
Overall what does it matter that 2 gens pop in first chase if survivors then can't finish a single gen until they all die? First gen is absolutely NOT the same value as last gen. Not even close. Not by time spent on it, not by hook states exchanged to get there and not by (average) chase length of killer.
If you so much want to make start of the match easier for killer, you would need to at the same time address those 5 points above. Otherwise we are talking about very unfair change (like bring back old mori, but keep current hatch and no loop infinites - level of unfair).
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432966#Comment_3432966
Er.. teleporting the killer is the massive argument against it?
Removing player agency, removing the killer from their position and robbing them of all pressure.
Why don't we teleport survivors onto hooks if they're about to finish a gen instead?
Seriously some of the suggestions posted on this forum, make it obvious some of you have never played the other role.
It's weird you are targetting him with this "survivor only player" accusation. I know I argued with @Emeal quite some on several topics and it feels like he plays more killer then survivor (but both roles for sure).
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@luvcraft said:
counterpoint: this should be base. If your 4-man SWF's pro runner is kiting me while the rest of you pop 3 gens, then I should at least get the satisfaction of downing him in one hit once I finally catch him.
And before anyone says "JuST stop ChAsING HIm aNd gO PaRTrol gENs", I'll point out that breaking off the chase to hoof it over to the gens on the other side of the map from where he's kited me to (with a big chance of randomly choosing a gen without any survivors on it) is a terrible move, AND he'll follow me to know exactly where I'm going, and tell his teammates on comms so they can all move to a different gen.
The truth is, that getting bloodlust is not difficult and all you need is not break a pallet or use ability (something u can do w all killers but nurse and scratch meyers) + it takes much shorter then 3gens.
What we will see during event are killers not hitting survivors and just trailing behind them waiting for bloodlust for very very quick chases.
I really wonder what queue times will be, but I am sure it won't be nice. Spawn of droppable pallet will by far not make up to it (even considering how strong that thing is).
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@Seraphor said:
Aura reading perks are useless if Distortion is in play.
Healing of any kind is useless if Broken, Plague or Legion are in the match.
Deliverance is useless if you get hooked first.
It's almost as if perks are situational and have counters to them.
Are you trying to say aura perks, broken-inducing effects, legion, plague and self-unhooking are considered bad AND have hard counter in meta effect?
Because solidarity, reactive and resurgence were considered weak perks even before hemmorage buff. Making them high risk low reward.
I am not saying I am bothered by it too much (I don't play thrash perks so I don't play any of those 3 mentioned - not saying I am playing just meta perks. But I make my line at inner healing, saboteur and breakout level bad). Most of perks on both sides are useless. But it's weird that when this is brought up, someone would still argue high risk for meager effect is reasonable.
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I most certainly love it when survivors waste their time with boil over and sabo play. My chance for 4k (or 3k+hatch) just went up by insane amount.
The perk is only good against console killers. Making the perk any weaker would mean less usage which means it would lower my killrate.
Main reasons for these are:
A, sabo teams barely do gens.
B, slugging means one less person and possibility to snowball
C, immediate drop makes BO wiggle bonus nonexistend
D, catching rhythm of BO makes you able to exceed max movement speed a little, so u make it to hooks u shouldn't be able to.
E, u can use elevation against those players if they would wiggle out in time (drop them so they fall and get staggered - you can catch them right after almost immediatelly).
Overall once you know about these counters, it's very easy to turn it against survivors (same as CJ or locker-grab saves)
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431327#Comment_3431327
If you can "hear" something but only "barely" then that is simply about how good of hearing you have, which is an accessibility problem, not some "skill" you can learn and hone. Because someone who is hard of hearing won't hear it, but someone else who has good hearing will hear it.
But that's already skill thing too. Acting on the sound, discerning what was background noise and what's sound of interest. Some people can only track grunts of pain while others can track silent footsteps. Slowvaults also makes brief faint sound (super strong thing for spirit), that can be used in chase by all killers.
If your idea is to make these things accessibility thing, then why not make an accessibility feature that will vault/not vault a window for me or change direction by killer's behavior? It's also just an accessibility feature to equalize my slower reflexes compared to quicker players and why should I be disadvantaged.
Right after this one someone might argue, that he can't come up with good mind games compared to others, because he is not smart enough and demand accessibility feature for that one - all in name of inclusion of all people no metter the IQ.
I hope you get my point by last 2 paragraphs - there's one thing in alleviating peoples disadvanteges and there's another with asking the game to be played for you by demanding perfect help.
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@jeffkillsyou96 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431209#Comment_3431209
Counterforce plus resilience
That's not an answer. It would be the same as survivors getting new perk that allows them perma sabotage hooks and saying "it's ok perk. Just bring iron grasp and agitation, basement hooks can't be sabotaged. If that doesn't work, just bleed them out so no problem".
You see the issue now?
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430910#Comment_3430910
Go ahead and accuse me of white knighting again. As someone who also has hearing problems, i find that astounding.
Secondly, you still haven't answered the question. How EXACTLY does me physically HEARING the survivor to my left, on the other side of a wall and be able to pin point where they are because of that, differ in ANY way, to getting a visual indicator that i "heard" the survivor, on the other side of the wall, to my left?
It's all in the implementation.
If you already heart it, then there's no difference (with exception to precision, I play spirit quite some and have good headset - and I can in some extreme cases still misplace survivor sometimes by even 5m radius from real position). The problem is, that the implementation would need to carefully discern when to give the warning and when not to. For example - it's very hard to hear any footsteps next to half-repaired generator - the only thing you can hear is grunts of pain. The same thing applies to active boon. Or destroyed hex (this one is the reason why I dropped plaything on spirit - you wouldn't believe how many chases I lost because of cleansed hex at the wrong time). During chase, you basically don't hear anything. And if you are not really close, you also don't hear anything.
Meaning - it might be too hard to implement in a way where this would be fair to all players (survivors for not being screwed over by huge generic and universal killer buff (making it absolutely NOT an accessibility feature) and killer for it to actually be beneficial). For very same reason Onryo got recent buff for survivor accessibility to not turn on until her lullaby is actually loud enough.
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@jeffkillsyou96 said:
Well tbh a lot of your games as survivor seems to be from you not knowing how to loop or counter killers effectively as a iridescent ranked survivor and killer the game is still winnable for survivors there’s just ups and downs on both sides and it’s on you as a player to actually be able to deal with it.
For example, if a killer camps then gen rush or if a survivor throws the game which happens a lot then you may have to be the one who loops for most of the game it’s still possible I done it and seen survivors do it to me as killer
But if that's the experience of vast majority of survivors. Maybe it's the GAME'S fault instead? How is it that average killer can easily 4k against average survivor (making soloQ absolute nightmare)? Why do you need outright BAD killer to get an escape as survivor if you don't put 5K hrs into scrims against best killers and being coached by people having 10K+ hrs? That just screams for the game to slowly die as there will be no new survivors...
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@Veroles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431209#Comment_3431209
This is exactly the same thing I proposed in other threads. Even those 20s is the same. Yes. This would be good idea. Hexes are now quite bad (exceptions do exist). Those 20s would be very good change.
I think it's a change that doesn't really hurt, but on the other hand it kills a lot of demotivating moments. It would cause more positive effects than negative ones, imo. Some hexes are good but only when they stay for a while. A 20 second protection still gives plenty of opportunities to destroy the totem even if the killer checks the spots.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430706#Comment_3430706
I can understand that point too, that maybe this is a step towards competitive gameplay, but I still think it's lucky enough because a totem can spawn anywhere and there are many scenarios where a killer should think twice about defending a totem. So there would still be plenty of ways to remove a hex in "most cases".
In other words, I don't really think that adding 20 second block to a hex totem early in the game would make the game any more compy than it already is. Most who play a competitive playstyle decide to camp or tunnel anyway when their totems are destroyed, the longer it stands the less they are motivated to go that way.
Besides, sometimes a hex cleaning isn't the smartest idea anyway (Haunted Grounds).
Nah. I use plaything in a lot of my builds. The idea is not to use it for oblivious (that helps too, but is only a bonus), but as a slowdown instead. 28s x 4 is quite some time and that already disregards value from oblivious or walking time - meaning some hexes are already good (but this proposed buff would do nothing for plaything). :)
But I would really like to see hexes being blocked for first 20s of trial
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It makes a lot of sense. Especially if killer takes video conference addon (and potentially also iri vial) + proxy camp + tunnel. There's no saving said survivor, because he can't heal/cleanse in time and he has absolutely no chance to do that in chase.
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I do agree merchant is not the strongest killer in game. But I would still (and by insanely huge margin) face ANY other killer then her. With god-tier nurse, you will just loose in 5 minutes. 9 if she decides to slug you to death. With facecamping basement bubba you still have 1 exciting chase. With knight, you at least have to run away from his AI which is marginally more fun. Against SM, you just look at her kicking that gen AGAIN and placing another drone AGAIN.
Devs should really delete her, or killswitch and remake her all over. That would be SO GOOD CHANGE! The worst thing is - even if she is boring (for killers she is quite boring too, but for survivors she is unacceptable) and there were millions of threads in feedback saying as much. Devs still decided to boost her numbers by publishing her archives and actively lowering their player base for some unknown incomprehensible reason.
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@jeffkillsyou96 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430249#Comment_3430249
I also find it funny how boons can be placed infinitely but once a hex is gone its gone
All boons now have such a bad effect, that changing this would totally kill them. There's no boon in a game now, that would be worth it outside of some niche build/effect.
@jeffkillsyou96 said:
As a killer and survivor main I gotta say hexes in general are pretty weak since If a survivor runs any sort of totem build for boons or inner healing then the hex is going to be found pretty fast and even if then there’s always a chance the hex is gone within the first gen.
I suggestion for quality of life to hexes in general is make it to where a survivor has to complete a generator in order to cleanse a hex totem if not the the entity will block the totem until the survivor completes a gen.
Either that or decrease the cleansing speed which hexes are cleansed without thrill of the hunt and rework thrill of the hunt into something more useful
Decreasing cleanse speed would create abuse, where hexes would be impossible to cleanse EVER (this one contains thrill of the hunt, face the darkness and specific killer). That's not a way to go.
@Veroles said:
I'm not sure if a gen linked condition is the way to go. I think it would be better to have a general block of maybe 20 seconds at the start so the killer has at least a chance to defend totems. Sometimes, especially on big maps like Shattered Square, it's just not possible to get to the totem point before "BOOM" in many cases.
This is exactly the same thing I proposed in other threads. Even those 20s is the same. Yes. This would be good idea. Hexes are now quite bad (exceptions do exist). Those 20s would be very good change.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430075#Comment_3430075
Right and I do think its bad the Killer can do that, but there must be a middle ground of completely making pressence pressure from the Killer impossible OR allowing face camping.
I think bHVR should gamify face-camping, by allowing Survivors to do something together that might be a useful tool against face camping, instead of something automatic and fake that holds the hand over them.
That's the problem. Finding a mechanics that makes sense, gives survivors (that are not compet scriming with each 5K+ hrs) chance to unhook, but not rob killer of all the pressure. That's a hard one. Defending and "tackling killer" has associated risk of fitting really bad with current game concept (where survivors are basically defense-less). Speedups/slowdowns have problem with abuse from survivor/current abuse from killer. Frankly - I don't know what would be good solution. I just know that current state is not OK
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@RaSavage42 said:
Tunneling will be hard to stop out right
But If they tuned the Gen Efficiency just a little bit... that would decrease Tunneling just a little bit
And if Survivors stopped unhooking as soon as they get hooked it would stop Camping just a little bit
If Killers had more incentives to spread hooks... it would reduce Tunneling just a little more
If Survivors hook times were increased... it would reduce Camping just a little more
If BHVR didn't ruin Gen regression perks... it could've reduced Camping and Tunneling just a little more
If BHVR actually didn't have "knee-jerk" reactions that they said wouldn't happen... we could've found a different way to play the game
If players didn't turn this game into a competitive MLG tournament with cash on the line... BHVR wouldn't have to nerf much of anything
If BHVR didn't go the route of making BP only available through "ranked" matches
If BHVR made this game better from the ground up when Mickey was coming into the game... things wouldn't be as bad as they are now
Sorry, but most of this is just not true. BHVR tried it out. Patch 6.1 made chasing easier and longer gens and all that. Result? MORE Camping then ever in the game. If you want to reduce camping and tunneling, the solution is NOT to make games easier for killers (as if they are not super easy compared to the beginnings of this game - where people didn't camp and tunnel so much as today). The solution is to make these strats less viable and instead have other alternatives.
But if camping and tunneling is just swapped for gen kicking - you just substitute one problem for another. Instead of uninteractive M1/tunneled out/camped to death you get uninteractive kicked gens into kicked gens into kicked gens.
Instead the healthy thing is for killer to have enough time to have a chase (but that's not 2mins per each hook as some killers want to have) and giving chance to win that way, but not by stalling the game or being afk
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@Veinslay said:
I also fell victim to this from a bully squad SWF before I realized what they were doing. If the team has flashlights hovering around, and a survivor gets in a locker and then exits slowly, you have to be cognizant enough to wait for the animation to finish and then knock them down. Otherwise, they will blind you during the grab animation. That's the best way to deal with it. or put on Lightborn or just stand in the corner spamming your power until they do gens and leave.
There is a counter - the only thing u need is to not grab. U don't grab if u already lunge. You can lunge from distance or by looking up. This is about the same abuse, as CJ - works only if killer does not know what to do
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428045#Comment_3428045
With camping solution - I can agree to a degree (there's still too much lack of an information for this to be effective / to work, if you are not SWF that is).
In the past game sense would carry this for us.
I remember the times, I approached the hook carefully, looked out where the Killer was and then unhooked. Thanks to the new HUD stuff I can now see when someone is being chased, which means I know when its safe. yet despite this people will pull people off anyway. I dont think the reason is lack of information, I think the reason is that base BT people think will save the unhooked. It wont, base BT only works with face-camping, for tunneling? nah I can wait it out easy.
Honestly bHVR need to tweak the basekit BT to make it work better
Problem is, that in most of the games - you don't have to carefully look around. You see the killer. You know where the killer is. And it's somewhere around the hook (a little less likely - within 3m of hooked person). The killer will stay there. You can't safely unhook. You can do gens for some time, but then you need to trade (also you can't do gens that are in proximity of hook, because killer harasses them - so long as he can make it back to hook quickly - for unhooked survivor to have 0 chance to get away and heal).
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3429652#Comment_3429652
Your solution doesn't lessen DC in the slightest. People who DC often have a plethora of reasons why they do it. One killer they won't face isn't going to put a dent in the number of DC's
Also thinking your solution will keep more players in the game is naive. Pick a lobby of survivors and every survivor picked a different killer to ban. Suddenly 4/31 or close to 13% of killer players get screwed with higher queu time
That is if every killer is picked equally, which they aren't. And seeing how it's more likely the popular killers that get banned that number is going to be much higher.
And for what? Just so petty people have one less reason to dc but isn't preventing them in the slightest to DC vs the other 3 killers they hate.
It's a bad idea and that was the worst argument for that bad idea.
This can be solved easily. Just force bans before you queue - for SWF 1 ban is allowed. For soloQ you can slightly prioritize banding together people with same bans (if you have problem with matchmaking).
I know quite a few people that will heavily weight pros/cons of DC-ing if they face certain killer. And as I said previously - it's not even a same killer for those people...
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3429267#Comment_3429267
"I don't know about you, but I don't like 3v1 and consider them unfun for both sides. Picking "wrong" killer greatly increases chance of this happening - especially if that killer gets good start."
Sorry but that is a absolutely awefull argument. You're just rewarding bad behaviour at that point.
What's next? Stunning the killer for a minute at the start to ensure they don't get a good start?
Punish the people who cause the 1v3 not the person who is equally a victim. Remove the easy ways to circumvent the penalty
It's about addressing root cause of ppl DC'ing instead of treating symptoms (just make DC penalty more hefty).
My kind of solution lessens (does not remove) DC's while potentially keeping more players in game. Punishment lessens (does not remove) DC's while lowering active number of players (including ppl facing cheaters, ppl having phobias from certain killers, bad internet connection, game crashes/bugs that force you to DC, etc).
Suppose an idealistic (AKA impossible) state - if the game was fun for both sides all the time, all the DC's would be reduced to technical reasons or IRL problems - and that would be true even if there were no DC penalties in any way.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3429302#Comment_3429302
I tried running the add-on's and they are not that bad. the problem is that Oni's base-kit is too weak for me to not run his stat increase add-on's. I would rather run Top scalp knot, Akito crutch, Lion fang and Splitter hull as Oni over his iri. I think if they made top scalp knot, Akito crutch and Splitter hull base-kit and removed his -7 second penalty for putting a survivor into dying state, then I would use his iri add-on's.
His base-kit would be good enough to play add-onless as Oni at that point vs all levels of play similar to Blight. Oni base-kit vs good player is too weak to not run his best add-on's currently.
Sure. Akito's and splintered are his best addons by far. His ability is one of the strongest stuff in game and making it speedy+often sure makes good addons. In comparison to that, his iri addons effects feel lacking.
But for me it sounds weird to say Oni is weak. But that's offtopic so I am not going there any further.
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I like the idea. Oni's iri don't feel like iri addons at all.
About other killers - Freddy and Pyramidhead always come to mind considering bad addons (in general). This includes their iri addons too. But I am certain there will be many more killers like this.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3429228#Comment_3429228
To address you No Mither question
The biggest reason to run it is to combo it with injured state perks, you're one hit down, but you have access to some of the strongest non meta perks in the game at that time. Most of those perks also haven't really changed either since the condition for using them is being injured. You also get the built in anti-slugging which is or was infinite(I haven't read the perk in a while) so you could do gens faster, dodge hits, couldn't be slugged, etc. and if you were already really strong at looping the risk was basically no different than playing against Billy or Myers with their one shot centric kits.
I know about everything. I played the perk a lot of times. I saw people do thing with perk. There's even a special case when the perk is no-joke very good (that case is going vs twins - as all you have to do is create a little distance and she can't get u w victor). I know about abuse with sabo builds (mostly midwitch until it got quite a few extra hooks recently). I know about genrush builds.
But it still is killer's perk, because a, twins are rare, b, sabo build is gimmick that will not work if you don't throw the game for it (and survivors will eventually bleed out) and every other case is just pure buff for killer, c, because even best loopers make mistakes or get to dead zones d, those 9% from resilience + great skillchecks will still net in less time when u r in shorter chase and especially as you will get quickly tunneled out (in higher mmr at least).
No mither without question is killer perk. Same as left behind, sole survivor, self care (no botany or other gimmick), urban evasion, potential energy and so on. It doesn't matter, that under special conditions they can be helpful. The thing is that every perk that survivor can equip AND said perk actually on average increase number of killed survivors compared to leaving perk slot empty - is in fact a killer perk and I argue those should not be in team game (and are one of reasons why soloQ is so insufferable/pain).
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@HugTechLover said:
So me as a blight main will never get to play again? Yea no.
Killer ban system will NEVER work.
As a blight, you are safe. Its merchant+problem killer for that person - some hate bubba for camping, some trickster as he doesn't belong, plague/clown for specific fears/conditions, nurse (maybe here occasional blight instead of merchant) for meta slaves, nemesis/wesker for seeing them too often or legion for "mending simulator", knight for "AI-only/flipchart/nobrain" interactions, pinhead being annoying/soloQ stomper, twins for slugging too much or any random killer for random reason (like he destroyed me so much last game, or some less objective reasons like "slinger is braindead easy and unfair").
The point is, there's too much variety in "hated" killers for you to have serious problem as blight player. If you wanted to play merchant - then I would understand. But for anyone else? Not an issue.
@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428748#Comment_3428748
Skull Merchant already isn’t very common, and people just DC within one second anyway. I doubt she would be the most banned killer. Same with Twins. Why waste a ban on a 1 in 100 killer?
Most people would ban one of Nurse, Blight, Spirit, or Legion and then cycle through whichever killer they currently are playing against a lot and are sick of (so probably a lot of Wesker, Nemesis, Wraith bans).
High MMR survivors would just ban Nurse and Blight.
Low MMR would just ban Bubba and Wraith. And this is where the biggest problem lies. Wraith and Bubba are the best killers for new players to play, if these are banned and their queue times rise they’re just gonna stop playing killer.
You presume brutal unimosity. Even most picked killer does not get picked more then 15% of games by official stats. Why do you think everyone will be meta slave? From what I can tell by talking to quite a large number of people (sure statistically irrelevant for general usage, but already good sample), people hate different things and most hated killer can be weakest. Like even before SM got buffs after PTB, lots of people already hated her and would pick her over objectively stronger killers - see my response above, those are real reasons I remembered people complaining about - none of them are made up by me. Overall I think Merchant is the only killer, that would have really hard time finding match now (but that's devs fault that should have been fixed months ago).
@Sonzaishinai said:
How does increasing queue times increase the fun side of a player base? Unless you only look at one side ofcourse
Also not the biggest fan of map bans, although i would like to see the offerings go
I don't know about you, but I don't like 3v1 and consider them unfun for both sides. Picking "wrong" killer greatly increases chance of this happening - especially if that killer gets good start.
@HoodedWildKard said:
Map bans? Iffy. We'd never see coldwind or swamp again if killers could ban maps
Killer bans? Maybe only one per player and swfs can only choose one between them. Two would mess with mmr too much. It seems unfair to force players to endure genuine phobias, and it might help prevent ragequits.
Swamp? I doubt it. Again. There's enough variety in maps already, that coldwin, garden, eyrie, badham, the game, mac, RPD, midwitch, lerys will see the light of the day even if both sides could ban a map.
It would be different with banning say survivor item (there are only 6 types out of which 2 are really bad making it possible to ban 25% of usual/used options), but that's not the case for maps (or killers for that matter). Like even single perk would be manageable now even if the end result would be felt a lot more (because most people on both sides do use 1 of top 10 perks making bans effectively limiting 10% of choises), because there are so few trully good perks on both sides. But banning single killer (2 might be too much) will just lessen worst DC's.
@HugTheHag said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428634#Comment_3428634
How many maps are what sided is irrelevant. If only one side can ban maps, it is unfair. Map bans would be a terrible bandaid fix to map balance, and I think we're past wanting terrible bandaid fixes.
And thinking killer bans might be fine because you personally would ban Nemesis, an unpopular choice to ban (I personally enjoy going against him quite a bit), is skirting the problem. It would greatly affect Skull Merchant players, as you said, but maybe also Wesker players (a quick browsing through the forums is enough to see many people are sick of facing him all the time), Nurse players no doubt, and Blight players. Possibly Knights and Artists. If Hag had been more popular, she'd be a famous ban pick as well.
And it wouldn't be fair to "survivors" as a whole : those killers would not spend forever in queue. Matchmaking would gradually broaden its limits like it does currently, and instead of a good team of survivors going against that sweaty Blight, it will be a group of casuals who definitely don't have the skill to compete. Would it be fair to them ? Or to the Blight if after half an eternity in queue, the first group they can reach is a sweaty 4-man above his skill level ?
Again, it would serve as a bandaid fix to killer power balance (wether it needs fixing is another thing entirely).
So this is why I'm wary of those offered changes. I don't think it comes from a bad place, we all have things we wish we could change about the game, but I don't think they would be viable, that's all.
Do you realize you yorself named so many different killers, that this would stop to be an issue? Because nobody can ban your whole provided list in a single game (meaning some people will make room for the other killer on "hated" list, because they hate something else more)
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428654#Comment_3428654
Today I had 1 game where I made a massive comeback from being pushed to one gen by BNP.
Out of 20 matches it happened exactly that, once.
It's quite exceptionnal and honestly, VERY STRESSFUL AND UNFUN.
Most games are just me patrolling gens and watching survivors take 3 step to an adjacent window/vaultable wall while the game taunts me with a silly breakable wall that used to not even be there... which is not even on the right wall to be relevant in any way even if broken.
Map design is an absolute farce in how it's biaised towards survivors these days...
And now maps are getting bigger because they cry nurse and blight hurt their feelings... meanwhile killers that are M1 based get the short end of the stick.
I just want to play Oni and do the good old chases, why do they have to balance the game around broken OP killers in map design instead of nerfing them is beyond me.
There is a vast majority of maps now that feel like absolute trash and with the newer iteration it just keeps getting worse!
If you think map design is now biased towards survivors, then don't look at old videos and how maps used to look like. Shack having 2 windows, literal infinites, many many many more pallets, vaults that now require you to break doors were the same - with exception that breakable doors didn't exist, so they were solid walls instead. Like you have now RNG where one thing or the other has window (e.g. wretched shop's main can have window on the basement side, or directly on the opposite side) - these things got created by blocking 1 existing window from old design (and RNG will just say which one is blocked this time) and many reworks shrunk maps (see old pale rose or old eyrie of crows or old old blood lodge or ...).
Map generations is super-duper killer sided these days compared to how it was. Check old videos on youtube if you don't believe me. But the funny thing is - killers were able to play the game at that time. It's only now that "the game is unplayable with how they make new maps now" totally disregarding how things actually used to be. It doesn't even matter that official stats say 60% kill rate on average - it still feels like high MMR killers barely get 1k/month by the complaints (how did they get to high MMR then? Perhaps facecamping iron+agi+deadlock+NOED bubba that never chases and is then pikachu faced, that he "can't get anyone because of horrible map design"? Yes this is extreme example, but if you only camp and tunnel w best addons, then after some time expect some of the survivors being well equipped to deal with it).
While on the other hand - soloQ is dead (meaning hardest one by huge margin) and only killer and 4-man has tolerable success rate.
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To the topic - both ideas are good
Offtopic - what about removing all the killer perks survivor can take for a change? Why is no mither still a thing with much bigger downside then upside?
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@RaSavage42 said:
Survivors want the Gens done as soon as possible... Gen Rushing
Killers want to Kill the Survivors as fast ass possible... Tunneling
Finding, chasing, downing and Hooking one Survivor (let's say) takes 1 minute (without Corrupt) means that either 3 Gens are close to being done or done apon Hooking that Survivor
So that means 1-3/5 of Survivors Objective done and 1/12 of Killer Objective done or 0/4 for those that only count Kills
And enough of that "if a chase lasts to long find another Survivor" crap... when the first chase stops that Survivor will hop on the closest Gen or heal up if you have injured them... and the Killer doesn't even know where the other Survivors are so that means they will search for another wasting even more time and allowing those that weren't chased to finish the Gens they were working on
But this is absolutely weird way to think about it. I had bad games where I had 1-2 hooks until last gen poped and it still ended in 4K. How is that possible if survivors did 100% of objectives?
But disregarding this. Maps effectively shrinks and get depleted the longer the game goes on. So if you really want to count the objective, you would need to include all the additional parameters - patrol path size, number of dropped and destroyed pallets, remaining perks (for both sides, count killer perks that deplete like corrupt, but also those that charge up like no way out), remaining charges in items and so on.
Saying that 1 hook is 1/12 of game while 1 gen is 1/5 is just so oversimplified, like saying killer always wins, because he has more speed so they don't need any ability. It just doesn't show enough, to say anything useful.
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@Orthane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428174#Comment_3428174
What do you consider a win on Killer though? In my eyes a win on Killer is 3+ kills.
Same. But draws exists. Survivor getting hatch and killer getting 2K is draw - it's as if the game never happaned.
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@Orthane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428029#Comment_3428029
Idk in my experience Survivor is way easier than Killer. All you have to do is memorize the same few OP loops that exist on every map, or on maps like Midwich just hold W and throw a pallet down every once in a while. I win way more on Survivor than on Killer. I'm terrible at chase as Survivor but that doesn't matter, all I have to do is sit on a gen for 90 seconds then move on to the next one while the killer wastes 5 minutes trying to catch 1 person abusing OP loops.
I am survivor main that plays way more killer now, because on survivor you are basically required to go 4man, or to have 20-30% escape rate. While on killer it's way above 60% (or 3 out of 5 counting actual kills). So it's that easy. I will continue to play killer so long as this is true - because survivor is only viable at 4-man.
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@daffyd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428044#Comment_3428044
While I agree I want him buffed a but, he is exactly that 'Such a weak killer.'
Just wanted to step in and correct* this line of thinking. Carry on!
*Correct means by giving no logic why I think they are or aren't a weak killer yet the original post shows points why he thinks he is a weak killer @Spare_Them_Mori_Me
Trapper can be very strong. The problem is, that he so much depends on basement to do that, that it makes his gameplay quite linear and frankly - boring for both sides. Use a few traps in critical best loops, leave ~3 for a basement and carry everyone you manage to catch into said basement. Rinse and repeat.
Also in low MMR, trapper is super strong. It doesn't take much brain effort to use traps in a grass and in that environment survivors will just not notice/expect trap to be there.
Overall I agree that the killer IS weak (I would say he belongs to the group of weakest killers). But saying that he's desperately bad is.... Overstatement.
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@Emeal said:
Camping would not be a problem if Survivors did Gens in response.
Tunneling would not be an issue if Survivors didnt pull the Survivor off the hook near the Killer.
Why are we nerfing Killers ability to apply pressure to a rescue because Survivors don't bother to properly counter play?
Seems like the only gameplay you want Killers to have is to chase and chase, there apparently should be no thinking about keeping Survivors from unhooking. You are removing Killer's choice in regards on what they can do, Why should the Killer role be made more boring because its possible for the Killer to use their power of speed and positioning???
If you think its too hard for Survivors to even rescue, then make a case to bhvr for them to ensure proper fun counter play for survivors instead of limiting the playstyles of what a Killer can do.
With camping solution - I can agree to a degree (there's still too much lack of an information for this to be effective / to work, if you are not SWF that is).
For tunneling - your case is absolutely right. However I think it's not the main issue people have. A lot of killers camp into tunnel or proxy-camp into tunnel. If this is the case, it's impossible to rescue when killer is not nearby (because he will be there until entity claims said survivor). In this (common) case (especially proxy-camp scenario), all the problems associated with it are just there and they just can't be circumvented.