Gandor
Gandor
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427795#Comment_3427795
oh its the person that always show up say to opposite of what I say every time, hi.
it's maybe because I play both sides and not just killer ;)
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Half the maps are way too small already. Sure. There are some huge ones like mother's dwelling. But then you get midwitch or wretcker's yard. Or in practical terms also maps like azarov's...
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
Basically only worry is abusing this system, so just spawn more hooks? That should fix it.
There are maps where it can be impossible to hook survivors for sure, but you can just increase amount of hooks and create some fixed spawns -> Badham basement for example.
Most of the maps have already too many hooks and sabotages are impossible (try to get successful sabotage on saloon and you will understand what I am talking about). Badham main is also fine IF you destroy breakable walls (with exception of full survivor build aroung it).
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@1ettuce said:
ALSO at hook the killer only needs to hit you once to lose collision and then hook the person, and taking only one hit as mentioned before does absolutely nothing when the killers already at 8 stacks
1, don't let him 8 stack 2, that's the idea - you take 2 stacks and you run away 3, you can dodge M2's much easier then M1's. Taking hits for teammates works also really well and that one IS common in higher level...
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As was mentioned above. You can't "tunnel obsession out" quickly enough, if you need to first ignore her until you accumulate all the stacks. I am very much convinced the perk is fair - because it has counterplay. Sure if there wasn't obsession part, then it would be broken. Right now? It's strong, but fair perk
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@Milo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427677#Comment_3427677
So lemme rephrase it a little bit then:
If the devs ever decided to buff ALL boons , then this suggestion could be applied IF needed to nerf them a bit.
That sounds reasonable.
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The perk is fine. If you really want to make it a little more fair, give warning to soloQ that the perk is in play, but only after a few tokens already accumulated (because soloQ has no way to know if they didn't see the chase or don't find killer's behavior odd - which in some games never comes to play). No other change is needed.
Also if it's killer capable of M2 (and you can't dodge it), just bodyblock when killer picks someone up. If he drops, it probably means he traded 1 hook for another + new chase time + harder hits with only M2's.
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@Cyn0_0 said:
Both comments so far are saying boons are just not worth it as is. So then by that logic this change wouldnt matter.
Another note from first comment was that boons are especially effective in SWFs, yes, exactly where this mechanic would come into play.
Given that, this mechanic would still be worth it, barely impacting solo while slightly nerfing SWF which is needed balance wise as a whole.
As I said. Right now boons have SOME NICHE value. Make them even worse and they will get buckle-up usage rate. It's similar to wake up. Overall very bad perk that basically lowers the chance for a team (as a whole) to escape. However, it provides some value (especially for soloQ selfish people). If you make the perk worse, not even selfish soloQ ppl will take it making the perk used only by random perk roulette.
@Milo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427506#Comment_3427506
Exactly. But this kind of mechanic would be a thing that can keep boons in check if they would be too good after buffs.
After buffs? What buffs? I see no buffs in this thread or in any dev plans. And as devs are very happy to keep vast majority of perks bad (on both sides BTW), I don't think "making room for buffs" means anything
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Boons as a mechanics is dead already. Why do you want it nerfed even further?
It's now the same thing for both sides - boons and hexes as a rule ar not worth it (there are a few hexes that are still worth it, dhope, noed, plaything come to mind. But overall there are much better options. On the other hand exponential can give value in SWF and shadow dance in some interior-cluttered maps like lerys or RPD, but overall bad idea both of them).
If anything, both mechanics need buffs
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So basically - you want lobby shopping (and backfills)
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If you ever remove map offerings... Can you as a counter stop showing survivors to killer so he can't lobby shop/adjust build? Lobby shopping already makes matchmaking not work because of backfills. It's only fair to remove both sides of the lobby advantage if you ever plan to touch any of those things.
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@Milo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426471#Comment_3426471
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426483#Comment_3426483
Oh yeah that makes sense. But that was before Undying wasn't it? That's why I was confused.
AFAIK no. U had time of old undying and old old ruin, where u had to get rid of 5 totems, or consistently hit great skillchecks all the time if you were extremely unlucky.
But I wasn't playing at that time and only heart stories about it.
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@MerleDixon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426432#Comment_3426432
Get two survivors at hook, one unhooks, other body blocks. If it's only one survivor, then simply spam M1 until the killer messes up a swing, and force a protection hit
Problem is, the other one can't do that, because both hooked survivor and killer have bodies that can't be walked thru. Try it yourself. You just can't move into the hook. But killer can hit freshly unhooked survivor.
Again - as killer i don't care if there is 1 survivor or 100 survivors doing the unhooking. I don't care. I want them to unhook for free. I am not moving an inch. I am just waiting for unhook to immediatelly smack that survivor with literally 0 counterplay (baring BT or to small degree breakdown).
And no other survivor can bodyblock, because unhooked survivor can't decide to spawn anywhere else then immediately in front of (unmoving) killer + no other survivor can by any means push out the killer or walk thru survivors that is still on hook or that is being unhooked.
Also you can't fake unhook timing, as there is very specific animation during unhooking. I as a killer am not looking at unhooking survivor. I am watching animation of hooked survivor that is being unhooked.
And if you don't believe me, try it yourself.
If basekit BT goes, it's devs deciding to almost guarantee one free-ish kill to killer (or making BT perk mandatory thing again) - by having simple requirement of killer having anyone on hook during endgame. I hope devs are above giving 100% freebies, because in this regards DS at endgame gave better counterplay than this new situation - survivor could still miss that skillcheck (so yes - even if that barely happened, the said truth is, that it's still less guaranteed escape then actually guaranteed kill if basekit BT gets disabled for endgame)
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426469#Comment_3426469
Can I ask, sincerely, why?
Why can Skull Merchant "hold" these generators in a way no other killer can? What is it that's actually happening to make her ability to patrol 3-gens and harass survivors away that much stronger than other killers?
I'm asking sincerely, because whatever it is, it's sure as hell not obvious on paper. I'm lucky enough not to have faced this personally so I'm engaging in good faith by assuming there must be something I'm missing.
You need at least 2 different people to hack drones for a single gen to not be under any drones. Realistically you need 3 so killer need to patrol. At that time, killer is 121% speed (that's more then with NOED - where chases are easy). But to do that, you need to actually hack it. Right after killer places the drone, there's immunity time for hacking = dead time you just have to give to killer for regression (or accept being exposed) + even hacking takes a few seconds, especially if they are not directly on a gen (travel time included). As she is silent in her drones and she is patrolling them (never too far) + she sees you, she is able to get 1 hit quite easily (especially if she holds that 3gen for some time = pallets are already used up). Now taking into account jolt, her kit together is just way too easy to keep gens regressed/survivors out of her 3gen - especially against uncoordinated survivors (1 survivor taking a drone is just free +3% speed = NOED on tier 1 speed)
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426426#Comment_3426426
I swapped to killer from survivor (talking spent time in game - iri1 as killer for 10 days now while gold 2 on survivor), because I am fed up with how hard it is to play survivor if you don't have very good 4-man at ready... I can enjoy my strictly no camp/chase Bubba and still win more then I loose. While you can super tryhard on survivor and have perfect games with 0 mistakes and still get heavily screwed...
The thing is you're in the "baby bracket" if you're playing like that. If I sat you down on my account you would play every game vs the tryhardiest survivors and probably say "huh" at the very least.
This is not the first month I got iri1 on killer. Considering soft cap exists, we do get same survivors (as supaalf and lilithomen and onepumpwillie)...
Also. I do get such hopeless games from time to time. But most killer games are chill (at least to me), while as survivor you will loose good chunk of your games even if you play picture-perfect (provided you don't have good 3 teammates at ready). Now considering you also loose some when it is your fault, survivor is just too hard and I prefer chill killer experience...
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426446#Comment_3426446
For a moment, I thought your name looked familiar; I had to go check that match to see if it was you. That doesn't appear to be the case, though, unless you use a different name in game?
Same name in game (and EU servers)
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426444#Comment_3426444
I mean you could say that it's a skill issue thinking you're entitled to a second health-state upon immediately being unhooked because of poor decision making of other Survivors.
Just pull the Killer away from Hook like you're able to prevent survivors from splitting input on gens.
Where is there any kind of decision from other survivors? We are talking endgame. Killer should secure his last kill and survivors should either escape or try to rescue hooked person.
Disabling basekit BT in endgame would make perk BT again requirement, or my facecamping example would be 100% unbeatable no matter what other survivors do - meaning totally free kill for killer
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@Milo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426168#Comment_3426168
Excuse my ignorance, but how did Ruin/Undying hurt people with sensory problems?
He is talking about old old ruin that required you to hit great skillchecks all the time probably.
@Mechanix82 said:
So I would consider myself a survivor main. I play both sides but i normally only play killer to get them to iri 1 for the blood points and then I go back to survivor. I got to say Survivors are getting really bad on what they consider "Boring". So first it was the Ruin/Undying, then Scourge Hook/Deadmans, then the infamous Gen Kick builds all boring. So i was playing killer a few days ago and I was running no slow down just Agitation, Starstruck, No where to hide, lethal. A little aura read with a very high risk high reward starstruck. 3 different teams I went against called me meta and its a boring playstyle that shouldn't be in the game. So my question is exactly what perks are a fun combination killers can use that survivors do not call "Boring" these days?
There are things that are "objectively" (for lack of better term. Technically, it's still subjective) boring things like being stuck in a hour long gen-defense game with old cob+oc knight or with current skull merchant and then there are things that just spoil the fun on the other side. Like killer bringing no-heal build only to find 4x no mither survivors. Or survivors trying to take flashlights only to encounter lightborn. Or going sabo build against your starstruck. Or going full heal build against plague. Or taking mirror meyers only for survivors bringing you to ormond.
The first thing should be addressed. The second should be endured/ignored in my opinion.
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All I can say is, that we do have different experience. But I agree with you that the negative can go way further then just "ez".
One thing I also noticed is, that it's very much possible soloQ would argue among themselves more then at killer. And if the recent trend continues, then there will come a time where survivors will get more flame (from killer and other survivors) then killer itself.
But again. This is just personal observation/experience.
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@jesterkind said:
Part of the problem here is that people are taking it as a given that she is the problem to begin with.
What does her kit actually do, with regards to 3-gen scenarios? The lethality and stealth aren't really present since people want to remove the drones, so she has information and a little bit of stall from the process of removing the drones. Right away, then, we can see that someone like Doctor would be just as good if not better; he has more consistent stall from Madness 3 + to a lesser extent the Madness skill check shenanigans, and while he has the information less frequently, it's still plenty present. If it is the stealth and lethality, then every killer who is better at either of those elements (which is all of them to have those elements to begin with, albeit not at the same time) would be just as good as well.
I think everyone, devs included, should take a long, hard, serious look at 3-gens to begin with. If Skull Merchant can hold matches for 40 minutes, that means almost any killer in the game could if they wanted to, and that means that 'fixing' Skull Merchant isn't going to actually address the problem. Best case scenario is that it lurks in the background until another killer that's slightly better than average at it (and is perceived to not be good at anything else) comes out, and at that point we're starting the cycle all over again.
I'm not saying don't change SM, she's a little on the weak side and parts of her kit certainly seem lacklustre in comparison to others, but I am saying don't assume she's the entire problem and that changing her means it goes away.
Oh but she IS the problem. Like sure she is not the only one that can play 3gens. But she is by far the best with quite a noticeable margin.
Sure if she disappeared from the game, the problem is not entirely gone. There's still knight that can utilize the same thing with quite a bit less of a success. And even after knight there are still hag and trapper and maybe even fast moving killers like blight/wesker/spirit.
But all those other killers after spirit will not be able (considering kicking perks nerf) to hold the game hostage for super long time. They will be able to trade it for several hook states, but they won't be able to just hold it forever.
Skull merchant can hold them. That's why she (and maybe arguably knight, possibly maybe even hag in lower-skill environment) is the problem and why solving her alone would be good-enough fix for the whole problem. Also considering things like holding 3-gen should be viable (but counterable) tactics that gives killer something (while not allowing him to hold whole game indefinitely)... You should probably not even try to fully fix this "problem"
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I love playing chase only leatherface.
I hook in basement only if it's closest hook (and immediatelly sprint away after).
I basically never camp (but in endgame, camping does not exist).
My loadout never even contains iron grasp, agitation or mad grit.
But still - OP's suggestion would basically prevent me to play the game.
Do I think his camping ability is too good? Is it boring to play as? Or to plsy against? Should devs do something about it? - all of this hard yes. But please. Absolutely do not go the way OP presented, because the abuse factor would make Bubba totally unplayable.
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@CrypticGirl said:
I've had one match that sounds similar, but a bit different from the scenario. I was up against a Spirit, two teammates were dead, I was on death hook, and Leon hadn't been hooked at all. Spirit eventually found and hooked him. I saved him from first hook, but he soon got hooked again. Spirit followed me to hook. Granted, I didn't notice if she had any great hatred for Leon, so I thought since she didn't put me on my final hook when she had the chance, maybe she'd spare him, too. But when I tried to save, Spirit grabbed me, and Leon died on second hook. Spirit still let me wiggle off and gave hatch though. I'm not sure why she chose to spare me. I have that match saved in my Twitch channel highlights. XD
When I play killer I will mentally pick one survivor that gave me best chase. If said survivor ends up on a hook and gets unhooked, I will give him hatch. If his teammates won't unhook him, I will kill them all. Sometimes (but it's rare) I will hint to standing survivor (after basically winning the chase) to unhook my designated survivor and then kill rescuer (if he does not, everyone dies). So maybe if I was your killer spirit - then this would be the explenation 🙂
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IDK about u, but most of my end game chats are positive (playing both sides). Especially recently it feels better then before (no idea why that's the case though).
I am not saying there's no toxicity, but "ggs" start to become norm and "ez" starts to become exception.
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@MerleDixon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425796#Comment_3425796
You can unhook without bt. If you don't know how that's a skill issue
Just tell me how. I explained what I will do (facecamp survivor touching him all the time + fully ignoring everything but hooked survivor = i will let anyone unhook for free. But right after unhook, i will just click M1 without ever touching keyboard or moving mouse).
What kind of "skill" can make killer miss in this situation? Because you are advocating for removing the only protection against this tactics...
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@DyingWish92 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425811#Comment_3425811
It's 4 vs 1. If 4 people are all better than me then the matchmaking sucks. Also anyone can drop a god pallet and escape a chase, a good looper or a horrible player can do this. The poor balancing of the maps and all the safe areas make it impossible to know if you're actually against players better than you or if the map is just carrying them to victory.
There are 1 or 2 god pallets in most maps. Sure you need to break them when they are thrown. You also need to break some extremely good pallets too (provided your killer's ability can't play around it). But huge number of pallets can be played around and some pallets are even better left unbroken (so there's a temptation/chance survivor will decide to play it).
Maps are a big factor, but there are no maps in this game that are autowin for one side. This is true for cowshed, garden of joy, midwitch and saloon.
@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425811#Comment_3425811
-"So you are complaining that if the whole enemy team is better then you, then you should still win somehow? Why? How is that fair?"
Funny you should say that but because of the extremely generous map designs and game mechanics of things like "shift W" most of the killer roster requires you to be massively better at the killer role than they are at survivor just to be on even footing.
Nurse and Blight are skill based. If you play well you crush people who do not loop perfectly. Most of the other killers usually end up in situations where they are literally powerless. Say you're Pig on "the game" and someone throws a god pallet. That means the chase is "over" unless you stop to break the pallet at most loops.
Interesting. And I swapped to killer from survivor (talking spent time in game - iri1 as killer for 10 days now while gold 2 on survivor), because I am fed up with how hard it is to play survivor if you don't have very good 4-man at ready... I can enjoy my strictly no camp/chase Bubba and still win more then I loose. While you can super tryhard on survivor and have perfect games with 0 mistakes and still get heavily screwed...
@NoHookDC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425811#Comment_3425811
"So you are complaining that if the whole enemy team is better then you, then you should still win somehow? Why? How is that fair?"
And yet Survivors whine about the Killer being better than them and 'tunneling' and 'camping', and how it should be changed NOW if not sooner than NOW!
Weird that Killers talking about genrushing are met with 'Git gud', but Killers killrushing (Tunneling and camping) are game-breaking tactics that should never exist & every Killer who does them should have their PCs burned in front of them.
I guess winning quickly is a Survivor-only thing?
Camping and tunneling as killer player is ok. It's problem for the game (not engaging thing to 3/4 survivors, and feels unfair to 4th) and it should be addressed by devs (sole reason being, that meta should be things that engage + are fun for everyone involved. If best thing to do is staying on a single spot, looking at unmooving target and gaving hands outside of keyboard+mouse/joystick, then the game has clearly some problem).
It's stupid to ask killers to not play like that. But it would be good move, if those tactics were (usually - it doesn't even need to be always worse thing) worse then some alternative (yes there should be viable alternative) and that alternative should be engaging for everyone.
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I liked this thing that @BlueHorkew started and I adjusted a little. I would much prefer this thing even if it's quite a rework from current version of skull merchant:
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426049#Comment_3426049
Any killer that doesn't have some insane mobility will ABSOLUTELY mind, already been over how impactful that 6m is, a minimum of 7 extra seconds in chase and a maximum of who even knows, that's just bonkers
Sure. So impactful, that I don't need the perk and still win most of my games? Well. What can I say here... Maybe I create pressure and don't have 3 other people each on their own gen so it's not 21s of gen-time for me...
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425810#Comment_3425810
I didn't say killer has stronger perks than exhaustion bc you can't compare surv and killer perks like that imo. I said killer has stronger perks than fearmonger which shouldn't mean anything really, shattered hope and stridor were also very meh despite countering coh and iron will. Bringing a perk specifically to counter surv perks that might not even be there in a way that isn't flawless just generally isn't worth it when you have 1/4th as many perk slots
Fearmonger will virtually always provide SOME value.
1, some exhaustion perk is almost always in game (for this purposes, even Iron will counts)
2, it also blocks auras - so perks like saboteur or fogwise or dark sense or ....
But that's not the point. Point is, that you don't need it. But if you can't stand exhaustion perks, then you have perk to negate it (same as lightborn for flashlights and franklin's for medkits). But if you are good, you will not mind at most extra 6m (that can be even played around sometimes).
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Most likely 2).
Don't get me wrong. I am very altruistic player and there's a good chance I will try to save even if I there are 2 survivors left (1 hooked and me) where killer camps. Especially if I feel like hooked person did more in a trial then me (meaning he deserves to escape).
But your situation will most likely have a context. It most likely means that hooked person was cheater, or toxic player. If killer was tryharding, he would not let you go. So it's most likely also not a punishment for "good chase" (something weird that some killers just do). Also killer opening the gate for you suggests, that he could have killed you too, so that probably means it's only fair to respect normal outcome of the game + killer's mercy.
However if killer decides to do this, because of just "I need to punish good chaser" - then I will pick 1). But I would need to be sure it's this context.
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@Slan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425878#Comment_3425878
But that is not its purpose, it is meant to discourage tunnelling, not being a shield for receiving protection hits. Their goal is the same as healing others yet healing others counts as a conspicuous action and this does not.
But it doesn't even work well against hard tunnel (because it's canceled when hit during basekit BT). If it does not do a good job at what it's designed to do, then what's the problem for it to do something even outside it's original purpose?
Also your premise is wrong. You can get protection hit even if you do not want to - in fact there's a high chance you get protection hit when you are hit during basekit BT (as that protection will be towards your unhooker if he didn't get far enough and was injured)
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425861#Comment_3425861
Everything you describe only matters when there's only one surv. attempting the unhook. WIth multiple rescuers, they can and will make sure you won't hit the unhooked! You cannot stop an unhook with two or three ppl around you. And if you really wait for the unhook to happen without hitting any of the three, good luck trying to hit the unhooked, with three ppl ready for body blocking.
Since you asked, what I would do in that situation you described: LEAVE THE ONE HANGING! Try to find others to help, or if there are't any left, just leave. Unhooking someone else ALONE when the killer is standing besides you should never be a free card for both of you to get out.
Again. I don't care if there's just 1 unhooker or 100. I ignore them. I want them to unhook. Because as they unhook, they can't push me away from survivor that I am touching. And as you want to remove basekit BT, survivor that is touching me (because I facecamp him) can't move, but can take a hit. There's no bodyblocking, because that would indicate that a, I am not facecamping and there's a place where other survivor can move between me and hooked person b, hooked person or killer don't have collision (they clearly do) c, there's some kind of basekit mechanism that protects against it (this one is true - it's called basekit BT and you are just advocating for it's removal).
This means it's not even a trade. It's straight up hook once and wait until hook timer kills the person (with possible optional rehooking that has no counterplay but basekit BT or maybe breakdown).
How do you think you can bodyblock if you can't move between me and hooked person? Just how? I still don't get this. And I said it before. We can go to custom games and I will show you that 10/10 I will get that BT hit when literally facecamping.
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425846#Comment_3425846
No it's not impossible to bodyblock, I have way enough experience in that matter! If the gate is nearby, there is literally nothing you can do when going against three unhookers. The survs will squeeze through to the hook, one will go for the unhook, the others blocking you from grabing / hitting the unhooker. When you hit someone, another one will unhook. All run to the gate and butt dance. Thats why I usually hit the first surv approaching and chase them to down if I can afford it (gate being far away), instead of trying to protect a hooked surv at end game. That fails more often than not.
And before you retaliate "skill issue", no sir, when 3 unhookers play it right, it's very difficult to down any of them, esp when the gate is near. You only chance in this situation is playing the right killer (Bubba, Huntress, 99% Myers) or having certain perks (STBFL, Exposed effects). If you have got none of them, you can only hope for the survs to screw up.
What will you do as survivor if I stand in front of survivor and ignore EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD and just wait for hooked survivor to be unhooked - and once he is on the ground but before he can move - I just press M1? You can't push me away as killer. You can't walk into hook to take said hit instead. Killer just always redown said survivor, or somebody had BT/breakdown.
I will play custom game with you and I am certain I will get BT hit 10/10 times and there's nothing you can do about it. The only possible chance is for killer to screw up and hit survivor too soon (which means no hit is counted).
Now compare this to current state, where killer can go for person he hits on hook, killer can grab, killer can bodyblock, killer can hook far away from gates, killer can have STBFL, killer could not screw up before endgame and removed 2 players in any way, killer can have some kind of 1hit ability or killer can have ability that allows him quick succeeding hits (trickster, bubba with addons, etc).
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425745#Comment_3425745
Why should it be impossible without BT? We had a time without base BT, and situations where you would be unhooked without the unhooker having BT. 4 man outs would still happen, just because body blocks exist. I would assume body blocking is way more important than any BT timer for getting 4 man out. With lesser ppl alive, BT timer is more important, sure. But with less body blocking, it's also easier to wait out the timer as a killer.
it is impossible to bodyblock if killer facecamps (which is something he should do in endgame). It was fine before, because survivors knew they had to bring the perk every time (or be grieved in soloQ by farming teammate that didn't bring it). Right now survivors have 4 perk slots instead of 3. So it would be unfair in current situation
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@FeryGEN said:
4 things that have already been waiting for more than 1 year, many may be even longer:
- Points in the category of sacrifice. Why don't killers still get the maximum bloodpoints? Survivors in the survival category were fixed a week after the cap was raised
- DC survivors. A survivor's disconnect does not count towards death, for which the killer does not receive points in the Sacrifice category. Moreover, survivors who lost a survivor at the beginning of the game lose MMR and rank points in this way. Even challenges in which you need to kill survivors or sacrifice them do not count this as progress, because, apparently, having disconnected, the survivor actually escaped. Again, if the killer disconnects, everyone is given 5000 points for escaping. Have the entity automatically devour disconnected survivors.
- Dark Devotion no cooldown. First, the perk was buffed by removing the cooldown, then it got a bug where the cooldown is equal to its effect, but this bug has not been fixed, and for more than 2 years the perk has been located near the residence of SpongeBob
- A statistic that hasn't affected anything so far. When there will be impressive rewards for Devotion, 100th prestige, luck.
for point 1. Yes it's stupid that getting max in this category is borderline impossible (you need to have a few hooks in EGC and 12 hooks in general). But the same can be said about survivor BP's overall. Like the best example would be - Otz likes to challenge himself with hard things to do just for fun. One of his challenges (which took quite some time - but sure not an eternity) was to manage a single game where he would get full 40K BP score. Why is it so damn hard, that even veteran player that likes hard challenges makes it a challenge to get full score? And is hard-pressed in achieving it? Why does killer in general has easier time in getting bloodpoints (even if incentives are on survivor side)?
Please fix both of these issues.
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@rororoxor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425815#Comment_3425815
Good spirits can still catch players with iron will, and dont forget the perk WAS nerfed. Whereas good survivors with spine chill will still have the advantage over a good stealth killer player.
Good survivors will not cleanse (until last gen pops) so no. It hard-counters any healing (or provides strongest projectile weapon in game - rivalled only by oni's ability - but for a good reason both of them have hard condition and limited time).
Also IW will hard-counter spirit. She can no longer use her ability and be directed by sounds (as phasing sounds are way louder) - she can only use other means (prediction, moving grass, scratchmarks and pools of blood). Unnerfed an popular IW was the reason why barely anyone played spirit before patch 6.1.
But this is all fine. Having niche perks that do something in their niche is healthy. It would be bad if you had perks that are generally useless and still bad at their niche (I am looking at you Potential energy).
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Are we going to ask to also nerf iron will, because it's exceptionally good against spirit but bad for everyone else? Nah. Spine chill is useless for everyone but stealth hit&run killers. Let the perk have some niche value. It's not like survivors should get refund in healing perks if they face plague. That would also be stupid...
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@DyingWish92 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424741#Comment_3424741
Some games you don't have any "weak" loopers. And in that case you're screwed. Even mediocre loopers who played the game for awhile can be a problem because they know the basics and what's safe and not safe, god pallets, predropping, and they can cause problems as well. So not everyone has to be a god looper to cause a big issue. The sad reality is you need 1 or 2 weak links on the team or its gonna be a bad time. Drop chase? And then what if they next person you find is good to, this can repeat and it's GG.
So you are complaining that if the whole enemy team is better then you, then you should still win somehow? Why? How is that fair? Also you can still create deadzones and no matter how good said survivor is - he will still go down. If there are no resources to loop around, then even best player in DBD will just die.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425802#Comment_3425802
You're going between saying these perks are necessary and that they're not that good lol. + Fearmonger required *to counter the perks*, to be clear. ++ Obviously there are more valuable killer perks but that simply doesn't prove anything... exhaustion perks are still insanely powerful, doesn't mean a perk like fearmonger which isn't guaranteed to do anything and won't come at all close to fully countering the perks (walking for 5s mid chase can happen), is at all preferable to a strong slowdown.
Nah. You misunderstood. Fearmonger is not required. You can play around exhaustion perks fine enough, that it's not a big deal. They are required on survivor side to get away from deadzone. But it's not required on killer side to turn them off, because there are other perk options that provide higher value then just turning off those perks (because you can "turn them off" by forcing the usage).
So taking what you wrote - killer already has stronger perks then exhaustion (I agree there, I wrote so myself) - but survivor exhaustion perk even if they are stronger just need to be adjusted, because they are OP? Going by this argument alone - everything that has higher usage rate then fearmonger is then also clearly OP on killer side and needs nerf (hint - they do not. Exhaustion perks are in fact fine and don't need adjustments).
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425789#Comment_3425789
Same argument can be used with otr and tunneling or corrupt and endgame, and yet those shouldn't be necessary to counter them. Having to use a perk to counter something like sb lithe overcome is ridiculous. And quite honestly, I just severely doubt that. Most maps are really safe and not to mention windows can't be broken like pallets, they're not necessary at all
But it's not required. I am never using fearmonger when playing killer, because it's value is just not enough. Because exhaustion perks are not valuable enough to play around. There are far move valuable perks on killer side then to just remove all survivor exhaustion perks.
OTR+tunnel and corrupt+endgame are IMO offtopic so I am not even going there. (but for short - OTR+tunnel don't work because u can disable it during unhook (making it not work as antitunnel perk if killer is hard tunneling) and corrupt is early-state perk doing it's job very well and it doesn't need to work endgame - it helps in never getting to endgame. But I don't really see connection of those 2 perks with current thread).
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The difference is, that if basekit BT was disabled, there would be precisely nothing survivors can do to rescue person from hook. All I (as a killer) would need to do is facecamp, let hooked survivor get an unhook and after he is unhooked but before he can move - just smack him. Then immediately pick him up and hook him (they can't even flashlight save, because I will vacuum-hook before flashlight gets applied - the only THEORETICAL save would be breakdown/sabotage (but sabotage poses huge risk) into flashlight save/sabo-play - both borderline impossible and still dependant on perks/items).
So overall removing basekit BT is 99,9999% free kill just because someone was on a hook during endgame. Right now it's much more fair - if you manage to hook someone a little bit away from gate, or if you manage to get 2+ people out of game (leave or killed), or if you have STBFL stacks, or if you grab someone, or if 1hit someone, or if survivors screw up - you get an extra kill. That's much healthier than just getting free kill baring some theoretical situation (basically only breakdown or BT would give you some CHANCE to escape - they would not even guarantee it).
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Use perk if it's such a huge problem for you. Leave the thing be for the rest of us. Sprint perks are very much required in current state of game, because creating localized deadzone is so damn easy. To counter it and make chases possible, there is a need to be able to move out of the deadzone = requirement of sprint perks. No amount of new threads from you about this topic will change this.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425756#Comment_3425756
Good for u 👍btw the counterplay to jolt and sloppy is not getting hit/downed, and even beyond that for jolt it's going into a locker lol. + You could apply this logic to the most busted perk in the game. Everything is fine bc everyone has good tools! Like stop that makes zero sense. ++ Not everything should have immediate counterplay but everything with an insanely powerful effect should have counterplay or a prerequisite, especially when there's other things that do have them and are weaker overall...like dh. +++ I don't have a main role :) I also wanted stbfl nerfed but ig disagreeing with a dbd take isn't possible unless u sprinkle in some x main accusation!!
Ok. I can say the same. Lithe has counter - just deny vaults and you are golden (you said "just win chase" it's the same thing). Sprint - just get him when he's exhausted and he needs to be exhausted to reasonably move thru the map. Overcome - just use expose stuff or one-hit killers. Deadhard - I don't even bother as it has so many counterplays... But the simplest one - just tunnel and hit him during basekit BT.
Also sprinting perks have "insane" value of making extra 6m distance (+50% speed above normal for 3s on average). Like WOW. Whole 6m. Such an insane effect. That definitely needs a huge counterplay - like add 1 hook state immediately after usage of any sprint perk to the survivor (not even counting that you have perks to turn it off if those 6m is such a huge problem for you)....
DH got such a huge nerf already, that it's not even used now much. And I presume those numbers will even go down a little more. It's totally bonkers someone is still not satisfied even if you don't see the perk in most lobbies now (with it's currently stable 7% usage according to nightlight).
Also. STBFL is no longer problem. It's earned perk and has healthy counterplay. The only possible nerf to it would be giving info to soloQ the perk is in play (say after 4th stack is accumulated). After that the perk is perfectly fair.
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But which one of those gen perks is actually helpful? Overzelous takes 14s and gives you 9s per gen (and you can't get hit) making it net negative. Potential energy gives you 20s but takes away 30s + you can loose it all. Friendly competition will speedup gen progress by whooping 3,75s if somehow 2 generators are touching each other (so you can use full 75s of 5% boost).
The only recent perk that is useful at all is hyperfocus - and even this one is gatekept by how hard it is to use it efficiently.
Overall - why are you even complaining about them? All but hyperfocus are absolute trash-tier and their pickrate clearly shows it. Not counting hyperfocus the only one that is niche-useful is only overzelous when combined with inner healing or some totem perk (but totem builds are unpopular, because hexes are weak and inner healing is also not exactly extremely good too) - making all of them just bad (again - hyperfocus is the exception). Those basekit 10s is MUCH worse/stronger then the benefit from the other 3 perks combined
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Just stop with this nonsense already. Not everything should have immediate counterplay. I am not asking to nerf deadlock, because there's nothing I can do to unblock my gens but wait it out. I am not complaining about jolt kicking multiple gens on smaller map AND providing 8% regression on all of them without any reasonable counterplay but "win your chase or find a locker". I am not asking to nerf sloppy, because there's no way around it and it will always make my heals take longer and so on and so forth.
Killers have some good tools, survivors have some good tools. Stop trying to nerf everything to the ground that is not helpful to your main role only.
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And here we go again. "DH is problematic, all the other exhaustions are fine. Why would anyone want to nerf sprint burst and lithe? Just nerf DH. Other exhaustion perks are OK. It's only DH that's OP uncounterable". Moving goal post at it's best.
Stop it already!
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I support this wholeheartedly. All points spot on!
Just an insult to injury - they release rift for HER!
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@pigslittlepet said:
Problem with mmr is it's fine for a competitive balanced game. But this game isn't balanced. Too many different killers to balance it so it can't be done perfectly. So they are treating it like a competitive game when it isn't one. Either they need to take the next step and truly make it a competitive game or drop mmr and make it a casual party game. They can't keep hopping the fence between the two
It shouldn't matter. No matter what - if you loose 10 games in a row (no matter which side) - you will be disgusted with the game and probably drop it (especially if u didn't have even fun interactions = facecamping, tunneling, 3genning skull merchant, genrushing, hiding survivors u couldn't find, etc). MMR should basically not allow this - because after 10 games your opponent should be weak enough for you to have easy win. But MMR does not work...
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@ThatHairyGreek said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424870#Comment_3424870
I escape MAYBE once per day (most often not, and hatch does not count for MMR) and that only happens cause the killer we matched with left so the system quickly got us another one who was more often than not a chill 500 hours player. I play this game every day for the past months and got almost 1,000 hours so im not new. If MMR truly did not work i would be matched with completely random players every day, from the baby nurse that cant blink to the 5,000 hours blight with alc ring and iri tag. However since i consistently get matched with people far beyond my skill level even though i die in the vast majority of my matches tells me that either something is truly wrong with the way SBMM works OR that a huge portion of the playerbase left and mostly veterans are playing this game at this point.
MMR according to devs (yes, it's old info, but there was no announced update from devs - so I presume this info is still correct) is based solely on how much you escape or die. Like sure - there were adjustments of how much you gain/loose depending on who you play against and how good/bad your team did (like e.g. if everyone but you escape, you loose less MMR). But you still should only gain MMR if you escape and loose MMR if you get killed.
So if devs didn't screw with how MMR works now (changed it and never told anyone) and your information is correct - then you should reformulate your first post = you won't play until MMR works in the way they announced.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424850#Comment_3424850
Is that how the SBMM works? Is it based off your experience with each individual killer or is it across the board? If you have a high skill in one killer but try a new killer does it treat it as if you're new to that killer or have some experience with the role?
every killer has it's own MMR. BUT - if you buy/unlock new one, then his MMR will be based on average of all your killer MMR's (minus some constant so u can learn him). At least that's the last info we got (I think a year ago or so)
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@ThatHairyGreek said:
Contrary to what the community thinks SBMM is very real and completely ruins whatever little fun this game has. For the past 2 months im consistently being matched either as survivor or killer against people with 2000 hours at the minimum up to 8,000 hours players. While this has been something that i have experienced when SBMM was introduced it has never been consistent and mostly an outlier. Right now EVERY match im in as a soloQ survivor is against 4,000 hour killers with the strongest add-ons and characters like Blight. Supposedly MMR drops as you die and yet i have died 96% percent of my matches along with most of my team and STILL i get matched with these people EVERY MATCH. With killer i can at least put my strongest addons and perks and have a little fighting chance but with soloQ im entirely depended on my team. This has gotten so bad that im unable to even complete a tome challenge or pip in match. Either remove the system or completely rework it because it does work but not in the way it SHOULD work.
Your experience SCREAMS MMR is actually NOT working. If it was and you had 96% kill rate when playing survivor, you would soon get MUCH weaker killers. So your stats are wrong and you escape way more often then you say you do, or you played too few games for your MMR to adjust, or MMR is not working and you suffer for it