Fuzzels
Fuzzels
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2766488#Comment_2766488
Remember that when you dislike anything about dbd as well.
Yeah, I do keep that in mind. What exactly is your argument? I'm not the one complaining here.
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@BenihimeWrath said:
Iri shards and BP should fill up all those empty slots in free rifts.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762839#Comment_2762839
This is a misconception. Just because you aren't paying money for something does not make it 'free'. You buy it with your time instead. Which is, arguably, enormously more valuable than plain money. There are, at this point, hundreds of games that are vying for our daily attention that give vastly more 'reward' for that time spent than DBD does.
Also, yes. Time is valuable. Ya know what requires time? CREATING COSMETICS. it costs BHVR time to create that #########. You wanting it for free is essentially you saying that your time is worth more than their time. This is an incredibly entitled viewpoint.
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@BenihimeWrath said:
Iri shards and BP should fill up all those empty slots in free rifts.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762839#Comment_2762839
This is a misconception. Just because you aren't paying money for something does not make it 'free'. You buy it with your time instead. Which is, arguably, enormously more valuable than plain money. There are, at this point, hundreds of games that are vying for our daily attention that give vastly more 'reward' for that time spent than DBD does.
If you don't like the free ######### they give out, go play something else. If you feel your time isn't be spent well, play something else.
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762839#Comment_2762839
"Free". I love this mentality.
Yeah I am selfish for finding it weird that you earn currency slower than in some free gacha games considering the time you invest.
I have the right to "complain" about what I want without being insulted for it as much as you guys complain about perks day and night without stoping or whatever you complain about.
I just need to follow "complain" guidelines I guess and jump on right hatewagons.
You are the one who lacks manners by calling me names just for stating my opinion.
Also bhvr can do whatever they like at the end of the day. I am not screaming bloody murder like people demanding buffs/nerfs. Just saying what I think about it.
And bhvr is a company everyone should stop complaining about everything. ThEy DoN't oWe yOu AnYtHiNg. Stop demanding amirite?
You're complaining that you aren't earning enough free ######### as quickly as you'd like to. And it's pathetic.
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BHVR doesn't owe you anything. They don't need to, and are not nor have ever been required to gift you anything. They give free BPs, you can earn shards to buy cosmetics, AND characters, and they also give out free skins and other cosmetics frequently.
Complaining about not being given enough free stuff is incredibly selfish and entitled
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@PlayTwink said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750530#Comment_2750530
5 minutes of my precious time.
Ok. Don't spend 5 minutes in a dc penalty. Instead, spend half an hour in a hacked matched. Perfect logic my dude
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@scenekiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750240#Comment_2750240
And what killer perks would you have removed from this mode as well then?
Pretty sure he means TRUE bare bones. No add-ons. No items. No perks. Nothing. Just 4 survivors and a killer. Finding items in a match is fine but they can't be brought into a match to start
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Misery loves company so it makes sense that there's a lot of sad and angry people that enjoy making others sad and angry.
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I remember loading into a game and have 4 gens done 20 seconds later, only to have 4 survivors die to a t Mori not much later. I remember shacks with multiple windows, and being able to jump through a t wall window 20 times in a row to avoid being hit. I remember dreading every second I left a gen that was half done because I couldnt regress it at all, and I remember 99ing multiple gens just to style on a killer.
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I mean rework just means something was changed. Doesn't matter if the change was massive or tiny, either way it's a rework by the very definition of the word. So what exactly is the issue?
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Oh yes, because there's been a whole slew of "face camping" scenarios in real life against various groups of people. Ya know, all these people being aggressively put on meat hooks then stared at for being a specific race. Happens all the time.
/S
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2737399#Comment_2737399
So basically, all you're telling me is "git gud".
@Fuzzels said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2737401#Comment_2737401
I am telling you to actual try to learn, my dude. Your attitude right now tells me you just want to be good without actually trying.
Use the brown addon that shows you where your blink will be and just play. Don't worry about winning or losing, focus on learning. That's it. Nothing else. The only reason losing is a problem is because you are taking it as a problem. You're brand new to something, stop expecting to be a master instantly, and understand that you're going to make mistakes and you need to learn from them.
Hell dude go into a game and ignore everything except a tree. Pick a specific tree, and pretend it's a survivor, right? Then practice blinking to that tree from various points and angles to try to get a better understanding of charge distance and muscle memory. nurse takes a lot of practice. A LOT. There's a reason people say she's the highest skill cap killer.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2737399#Comment_2737399
So basically, all you're telling me is "git gud".
I am telling you to actual try to learn, my dude. Your attitude right now tells me you just want to be good without actually trying.
Use the brown addon that shows you where your blink will be and just play. Don't worry about winning or losing, focus on learning. That's it. Nothing else. The only reason losing is a problem is because you are taking it as a problem. You're brand new to something, stop expecting to be a master instantly, and understand that you're going to make mistakes and you need to learn from them.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2737383#Comment_2737383
Okay, I'll just stop trying to hit blinks and walk around the map.
Not really a lot I can change up about trying to learn Nurse, 'fraid to say.
So far as I see it, I need to be able to accurately predict where my blinks are going, land my blinks, hit Survivors after landing a blink and repeat.
Not much of a way around that.
Yeah, that's exactly what you need to learn to do. And crying about not being able to do it won't help you learn how to. Record your games, watch your moves and mistakes, and learn from them by not repeating them. Like I said, you've got 30 games worth of "what NOT to do". Learn to not do what you did.
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To me it kinda sounds like you just don't learn very well. If you keep trying the same things over and over and keep failing, try something new. There's no reasonable way to NOT learn at least something in 30 games unless you are literally just trying to brute force it l. You can start by learning what NOT to do and go from there. And it sounds like you've got 30 games worth of what not to do. So change it up.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735823#Comment_2735823
To create that with those types of changes on things that we already know won't work for example is a massive amount of work - the huge programming element for one thing. It's not feasible or sustainable for the team.
We had the last mid chapter patch with an awful lot of changes in, that was very well received by the community and we did try to manage expectations there that this isn't something that could be done on a regular basis. When we make changes they're discussed, prototyped with internal testing, programmed, tested via QA etc. There's so much work that goes on behind the scenes that players are not aware of.
We're looking to implement a new Beta Tab (the one that's currently being tested on the PTB) that will help get things that we're working on tested easier - as well as give the added benefit that console users can also test out these features. It's not going to replace a full PTB for obvious reasons but it will help to test things like HUD changes etc.
Alright. I genuinely appreciate your answers. I feel like in the past, at least the answers I've seen given to other questions and comments, there's been a lot of circumventing or dodging the actual issue mentioned, but with these answers I feel like I've got a better understanding even if it's only a little better.
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@Mandy said:
Partly because every time we're transparent about what is being worked on people expect that to be implemented instantly into the game.
We had it with Object of Obsession rework and we had it this time with Ghostface & Legion - we never said they were coming this mid chapter just that they were the next killers to be looked at. And past history has shown this happening time and time again, which is why we're more hesitant in discussing things until we're more certain about what we're able to implement.
Ok, that's a fair point.
Why can't we have LONG ptbs of changes being talked about then? Make a very clear statement that any PTB with major changes is literally only for the sake of testing with the community and nothing is guaranteed in any way at all. So that the changes can at the very least be discussed among the players (and genuinely have the feedback given taken into account by the dev team) before simply being implemented into the game. Again, a perfect example of when this would have been useful and prevented a lot of extra work was the HUD changes. Why is there not a specific test server for this reason. You could absolutely change HUGE parts of the game just to be tested and played around with, and given tons of feedback to, without actually affecting the game until you've made a decision as to what you want or don't want to be a final change made. The bloodlust test was kind of that even just without the test server.
I feel like a like of problems could be handled before they even become problems if something like that were to be done. Maybe that takes a lot more work than I realize, but even still it would be a very healthy way to reach the community in a way that makes us feel connected and cared about
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@Superyoshiegg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733030#Comment_2733030
'use Wraith' how? I'm serious, how would they theroetically 'use' Wraith to harass anyone?
You're being asinine.
How did they "use" a cosmetic to harass anyone? Someone took offense because they themselves perceived it as harassment. That's what sjw type people have done sadly. And even sadder still is the fact that it's believable that they would also victimize themselves further claiming that playing as a black character can be grounds for harassment
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@dallasmedicbag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723288#Comment_2723288
yeah thanks man i couldn't have figured that out myself if it weren't for you. dude. no matter how terrible a killer does in a match, 99% of the time the killer will always end up with 25k+ BP with a minimum of three bbq stacks. If we were discussing this in 2018 then yeah it's fair game, considering survivors had more going for them a long time ago, unless a mori/iri head was in play.
wglf on survivors tho? even with 4 stacks and everyone played optimally (that means ending the game ASAP), you'd be lucky to break even off a 20k+ BP.
The real trick is to NOT play optimally and end the game asap. Longer game = more points. It's not that difficult to understand my dude. And I genuinely think you should try using wglf if you don't already and need the BP. Yes, killers will get more on average. So what? If you want BP and you want to play survivor, you've got an easy solution. Use it or quit complaining. Duh.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
Honestly they should just focus on making the game enjoyable
The most underrated comment to ever exist
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@dallasmedicbag said:
Why is there a perk that hard counters a 6k BP offering on the killer side? Getting hit by Franklin's and having a time limit to come back to pick your item up is annoying enough, but this minute perk counters an offering? Where is the logic in that?
Survivors can't do the same to killers, killers will have their addons in use for the entire match and won't be affected by anything the survivors bring.
Also can anyone explain why in the world survivors lose their addons despite escaping the trial? Don't say it's to make it "fair" for the killers because killers no matter how bad they play, they will always end up getting more BPs than the best survivor with 4 bbq stacks, which justifies the loss of their addons.
This game has catered so much to the killers that to see them complaining in the forums is laughable heh.
Everyone says Bbq is so great for bps.. ok, survivors have wglf. Use it if you want points. It's that simple.
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@DyingWish92 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717232#Comment_2717232
Lithe, Balanced you need to be alert and interact with the environment around you and sometimes the killer hits you before you reach that window or hill. Dead Hard you just press a button. Sprint Burst extends a chase by 5-10 seconds at the beginning and then they are exhausted. Dead Hard can extend a chase for 2-3 gens if you keep chasing.
With DH you need to time it correctly AND hope that youre actually near something usable. so again, your point is moot. There have been countless times that ive seen a survivor DH into a wall and get hit a second later. or DH too soon and make no distance at all. or even just DH correctly, causing a missed swing, but then have no pallets or windows nearby to use so they go down 5 seconds later anyway.
and the argument of extending chases for that long is also moot, any exhaustion perk that can give you extra distance can extend a chase just as long. Theres literally no reason they wouldnt / couldnt.
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@DyingWish92 said:
I agree that at least half of high mmr survivors are being completely carried by this perk. It takes no skill whatsoever to dead hard to a safe pallet or a window. What bugs me the most is the small brain people that say "just bait it out." There is no bait it out when it's used for distance. What's worse about this is you do nothing to earn this strong game changing second chance perk, just be injured???? Seriously.
Let's not forget 4 man swfs that all have this junk equipped to make the killers game an absolute frustrating misery.
"What's worse about this is you do nothing to earn this strong game changing second chance perk, just be injured???? Seriously."
is an absolutely NON argument. Let me show you why.
Lithe :
What's worse about this is you do nothing to earn this strong game changing second chance perk, just VAULT A WINDOW???? Seriously.
Sprint Burst :
What's worse about this is you do nothing to earn this strong game changing second chance perk, just START SPRINTING???? Seriously.
Balanced Landing :
What's worse about this is you do nothing to earn this strong game changing second chance perk, just FALL FROM A STAGGER HEIGHT???? Seriously.
Head On :
What's worse about this is you do nothing to earn this strong game changing second chance perk, just JUMP OUT OF A LOCKER???? Seriously.
Im not saying that dead hard doesnt need to be looked at, but this part of your argument doesnt make any sense simply because the other exhaustion perks are just as simple, if not SAFER to use.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717021#Comment_2717021
Ok, so you don’t want voice comms because they’re too difficult to balance around. But you also don’t believe Behaviour when they give the reasons for why they don’t add them to the game, even though you think the existence of voice comms creates imbalances that negatively impact the game. And all because you think PC players who want to play multiplayer games with friends don’t already have Discord, etc.
… 😕
My dude, you are not listening.
I am ok with voice comms. IF they are fitting to the game. Currently, they are not fitting to the game for all the reasons ive given you. If those reasons were to be changed, fixed, balanced. whatever. then Voice comms would be fine and fitting for the game.
If you cant understand that, thats ok. But im gonna go ahead and stop replying to you after this because I cant change the mind of someone who refuses to see past their initial judgement of something, regardless of how much proof they are given to the opposite. have a great day.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717015#Comment_2717015
I’m confused, are you saying you want Behaviour to add in ingame voice chat because you think it would improve the game and help sales, or are you saying you think voice chat creates serious imbalances and drives people away from the game?
im saying that if the devs claim that voice comms are NOT cheating, they should absolutely add in an IN GAME voice comms system. until then, anything they can (and HAVE SAID IN THE PAST) is blatantly ignoring valid points and arguments brought up by the community.
I dont want voice comms at all, UNLESS balance changes happen to various perks and killers powers (traps, stealth killers, information perks, etc) what those changes could be though, i dont know and dont have any suggestions. im not a game dev. its not my job to fix and balance another companys game.
Voice comms COULD be absolutely ok to have in the game, and I would be ALL FOR IT, but changes need to be made for that. Until then, they are not ok.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717000#Comment_2717000
Lol, wow dude you’re really worked up over them not having ingame voice chat on PC, especially considering you think it shouldn’t even be in the game in the first place! 😄
Those analogies are ludicrous, by the way. Car Manufacturers exist because people like to buy cars, their existence doesn’t prevent Busses from existing though or vice versa. If Busses were hyper-popular then yes, you’d see a ton less cars being bought and made because why invest time and money making something that people don’t buy?
Same with DbD adding voice chat ingame. Yeah that can add it but it takes time and resources, so you have to balance that against the payoff. Would adding ingame chat on PC increase sales of DbD enough to justify the expense? If the answer is No then it would be a bad investment. And the existence of popular third party solutions in that space skews the answer to the No side.
Also, I don’t play on console so someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but DbD on console does support the consoles’ voice chat systems as far as I know. It’s not like Behaviour tries to block voice chat on consoles.
ok, I can admit my analogies were maybe a little over the top but that doesnt mean the concept isnt correct.
and the fact that youre justifying not having comms as a non profitable thing is.. damn. Like yeah, I get it, bhvr is a company that needs to make money and thats fair, but if thats the ONLY driving force for them then the game will fall apart. Do you really want bhvr to be the next EA? or do you want them to care about their game and craft it into an amazing piece of a gaming art that people will enjoy for years more? or look back on it in 20 years and think "man, that game was so amazing. Im sad it fell off because the devs cared so much and put so much into it" which if they decide to only go down the financial route, will not happen
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@Mandy said:
And of course you seem to forget the fact that not everyone speaks the same language - hence using communication apps is a preference. Even in Europe there's so many different languages spoken and English is not the main language at all, despite us connecting to the same server.
The game is designed to be played with friends as well as solo - that's the option, hence there's perks in the game that helps solo survivors.
so its ok for the killers perks to be dicked over by comms, simply because the survivors can play SWF? that makes it ok? an entire killers POWER, the thing that makes that killer, THAT KILLER. can be absolutely shut down by comms, but thats ok because the game is meant to be played with friends OR solo? Thats just horrendously illogical. even taking out the perks that help solo survs, what about the perks on killer side that are just made to be essentially non existent because of comms? I mean as I stated before, im not trying to come across as aggressive, but your statement of "that's the option, hence there's perks in the game that helps solo survivors" really SCREAMS "we dont care about the killers experience in the game as long as the survivors can play how they want to"
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716983#Comment_2716983
The reason they’ve given for not having ingame voice chat on PC is that free solid third party chat systems already exist and are widely used so they don’t feel the need to spend development resources on including their own system in game. Also they don’t want to introduce localized proximity chat to the game because they don’t want players to feel obliged to use voice chat or hear other players if they don’t like it or it ruins the atmosphere.
while im at it, hey man. why does any car manufacturer exist? like we already have buses and public transport right? why do we need new systems created for travel when we already have some?
why do we have in home washers and dryers when we have public laundromats? right? thats the same logic youre giving me. theres already an established way to wash clothes, why would anyone need them in home? thats just a waste of time and resources, right?
why tf does anyone even have lightbulbs??? Bro we already have the sun, thats like the biggest light source ever and nobody even needs to do anything to use it, so why do we bother making other light sources, right?
same logic youre giving me. it doesnt make sense when you actually break it down and think about it.
you can simp for the devs all you want, and I get it because I love this game too, but at a certain point we as a community are allowing this bullshit to happen to us. we are all dealing with stockholm syndrome without even realizing it
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716983#Comment_2716983
The reason they’ve given for not having ingame voice chat on PC is that free solid third party chat systems already exist and are widely used so they don’t feel the need to spend development resources on including their own system in game. Also they don’t want to introduce localized proximity chat to the game because they don’t want players to feel obliged to use voice chat or hear other players if they don’t like it or it ruins the atmosphere.
@Fuzzels said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716985#Comment_2716985
ok, so basically they are too lazy to create their own system? a system that could EASILY include MUTE options to avoid the problem you stated? and also, again, the VALID POINT of the game being BUILT on information blackout is being IGNORED. Can you give any solid reasoning or arguments about that point? why do various perks exist if comms absolutely counter them to a point of non existence? what is the reasoning behind that? can you explain it at all, or is it just general incompetency? Im not trying to be aggressive with that question, its a genuine question.
I mean just imagine trying to play CSGO but you dont have any in game comms. and the devs just say "######### you, go use discord if you want comms!" or any team based game at all for that matter. would you honestly defend those devs? really?
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716983#Comment_2716983
The reason they’ve given for not having ingame voice chat on PC is that free solid third party chat systems already exist and are widely used so they don’t feel the need to spend development resources on including their own system in game. Also they don’t want to introduce localized proximity chat to the game because they don’t want players to feel obliged to use voice chat or hear other players if they don’t like it or it ruins the atmosphere.
ok, so basically they are too lazy to create their own system? a system that could EASILY include MUTE options to avoid the problem you stated? and also, again, the VALID POINT of the game being BUILT on information blackout is being IGNORED. Can you give any solid reasoning or arguments about that point? why do various perks exist if comms absolutely counter them to a point of non existence? what is the reasoning behind that? can you explain it at all, or is it just general incompetency? Im not trying to be aggressive with that question, its a genuine question.
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@Rizzo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716691#Comment_2716691
We said this multiple times, using voice comms is not cheating, you can dislike it, but please avoid spreading false information, we even have dedicated voice chats in our Official Discord for people to play together.
then why dont we have an in game voice comms system? Prove to the community that what youre saying is 100% honest and NOT just an excuse to ignore the issue. Or, could you possibly address the second part of his point? being that the game is based around information blackout on the survivors end? if thats not the case, how do you explain various information perks being in the game at all? Every time I see a response from mods and devs about this, its always ignoring any valid arguments being made and just a simple "nah its not cheating. go use our discord" which really comes across as ignoring the communitys concerns.
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this typically happens at the lowest, and highest mmrs. lowest because people that low are generally new and immersed, playing the game as a horror survival game. at the highest its because gens = wins so the mindset becomes "why leave a gen if you arent being chased off it?"
for the rest its likely a thought of "oh someone else will unhook them, I dont have to" kind of the equivalent of real life scenarios where people hearing someone in need of help will assume that another nearby person will go help them, so they dont have to go themselves. of course when everyone thinks that way, no one goes to help.
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@douggie123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2708619#Comment_2708619
I didn't realise I needed permission to post thoughts on the forums.
It's more an issue that these "thoughts" don't invoke any meaningful discussion, don't include any logical reasoning or explanation, and have no semblance of a suggestion or a possible fix that hasn't been shouted hundreds if not thousands of times before, and done in much more engaging ways.
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Don't give them ideas dude
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I just do this thing where I die nearly every game, wether naturally on a hook, or by choosing self dead and running back into the middle of the map while EGC is going on and my mmr stays nice and low. I get a great assortment of killers, and it never really bothers me to die to silly things because I was more than likely gonna RIP myself anyway. Who even wants to play at high mmr anyway? There's no real reward. Not even BP, you can easily get into red grades just by playing and as long as you're actually playing out the match to the end, even self terminating all the time, you're gonna pop if not double pip
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@Impose said:
I'll try and keep this TL;DR
Overall power level. Shes B tier. Some maps bring her to A tier, some maps bring her to B- tier.
More descriptive. The overall meta of this game does not revolve around her strengths. Being an anti loop killer in a game where loops connect to the other is largely irrelevant. Combined with her nerf from PTB she isn't even the best anti loop killer in the game.
Main Issues she has. Crow power takes longer to recharge than it takes to get rid of crows, thereby making the actual skill portion of her (sniping, reads, etc) useless. 2nd main issue she has. Cleansing crows while sprinting at full movespeed means that her already giant problem of dealing with W key is made even worse.
3rd main issue she has. Her movespeed while setting up crows. We saw this with the Freddy nerf. They nerfed his movespeed while charging his traps, nerfed his teleport and he went from one of the best killers in the game to the garbage can. Slowing down killers in a chase in the hopes of MAYBE hitting the survivor with a status effect is not conducive to killer power. Her move speed while charging crows is (I believe, its 5am and im tired) 3.7 MS. Thats right. She moves slower than Nurse's walking speed while charging her main form of trying to down a survivor. It takes an entire second to charge the power, while you walk at a slow movespeed.
Lets move on to her plus's
1) Shes VERY fun to play, if a bit clunky. Her power doesn't feel completely smooth. But landing stagger crows, or setting up a proper snipe is very rewarding on the rare occasions it happens. (If you're wondering what a stagger crow is, the invulnerability time between being hit by one crow and then the second is .75 seconds. You can set crows up to aim at a generator so they hit .75 seconds apart and essentially get a free health state) It takes a bit of setup but its very fun.
2) She has good map KNOWLEDGE, but zero map pressure. Artist, a good one, will generally know where every survivor is most of the time. She just can't do anything about it. On large maps (which BHVR insist on releasing more and more giant maps) she's useless. On smaller maps however her crow knowledge actually does allow her to control more of the match.
3) Potential. She has SO MUCH potential. Which you cannot say about a lot of recent killers BHVR has released. She is a couple small buffs away from being an actual decent killer. 4.0 MS while charging power, taking a second off the recharge time of one crow, removing RPD (this one is just for me), could actually propel her to higher tiers.
4) She rewards map knowledge and killer/survivor knowledge. Her power is one of the few that actively reward people who know maps well. Predicting survivor movement based on map is a PLUS. Giving the killer the opportunity to succeed is how you design a good killer. This ties in with her potential. Similar to Nurse predictive blinks. Huntress hatchet snipes. She has potential with her power to actually influence the game based on HER skill. Not relying on survivors to be a potato.
I'm going to bed now :)
"Removing RPD"
I second this.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672024#Comment_2672024
It's simple to belittle this whole thing by framing it like survivors crouching or clicking a flashlight is the actual problem. It's not. Language exists and actions have agreed-upon meanings. I'm not pissed that a player is clicking buttons, I'm pissed because the player is telling me "haha ######### you look at me" when I'm just trying to unwind. I don't care when a survivor is tbagging me when they first spawn in or if they're injured and run up to my gen; I care when they do while they're bodyblocking me into a corner, or wasting my time at the gates, because the message they're conveying is different, obvious, and mocking. And I don't like when a stranger walks up to me and starts mocking me without provocation. Call me 'triggered' if you like for having emotions or being capable of dislike. Some rando being rude doesn't have any sticking power and I'll forget it as soon as the next match starts, but it still ruins my mood while it's going on, and it's the leading cause of me wanting to put down this game. I don't care if I got absolutely destroyed in a match, but I do care when the survivors were sore winners. I don't care if I die, but I do care if I spent four minutes bleeding out while the killer nodded on top of me.
People have suggested limiting flashlight clicking or crouching via mechanics, and while that's something, I doubt it would be effective. A new language of disrespect would form around those restrictions. People are always going to find ways to express themselves, whether that's positive or negative. And because shallow trash-talk is difficult to quantify or measure up against a set of enforceable rules, measures to discourage it have to focus on rewarding players for not doing it. It's not a participation medal (which has always struck me as a straw argument anyway), it's because banning someone for excessive tbagging and saying 'ggez' is fairly idiotic and that's the stick on the other side of this carrot. Rewarding people for a good deed? The good deed has already become the rarity in this environment and any increase in goodwill is still progress towards unravelling this snafu, externally motivated or not. It's not like that's an unusual thing. The whole of society is founded on a careful network of rewards and threats keeping everyone in line. And linking these potential rewards to a thumbs up from other players means it always remains subjective and can't be gamed. Really, the only restriction that needs to be put in place is that players who queue together can't rate each other. But I digress.
I'm here to play a game for fun and my definition of fun doesn't involve people who are being dicks to me for no reason. The only way for these people to ever fit into my definition of fun is for me to bypass annoyance into active sadism (so to where I'm not only unbothered by them, but delighted in any salt I can extract while doing it), and at that point, I'm part of the problem. Honestly, you can say whatever you like about me being too soft and needing to toughen up, but in a game like this, you want more players like me to exist - players that aren't jaded or spiteful and have empathy for the other side whilst playing. When I queue up and either one or four random people are set against me? I'm nothing special, but I'm better for player retention than the guy who's playing Basement Bubba to sublimate his frustration from his last match, or the guy who routinely tunnels at five gens because he's beyond giving a ######### about the other players, or the SWF whose goal is to see just how much hell they can put the killer through in one match, or the solo who screams about every page of the survivor rulebook the killer broke and how everything they played, ran, or did was an undeserved crutch. The ideal match is one where players left having fun, not pissed off at the other players. And the current environment is kind of horrible at that because it encourages players to build grudges until they're 100% done with everyone.
A lot of the players that behave in a provocative manner aren't inherently bad people. Some of them are, and griefing was always their objective. You can't avoid those; they exist in every community in the world, online or not. But others do it because they've gotten frustrated with other players and have reached the point where they expect hostility as a baseline (and so react to it preemptively or perceive it where it doesn't exist), and others have simply learned it from their environment and think it's the cool/funny thing to do. Those people are matching the tone of the community and can be peeled back just by making this environment less awful.
In any case, nothing's going to change if nothing's ever tried.
Nothing changes if nothing is tried.
Ok. Sure.
But the same can be said of doing the same thing over and over And expecting something to change. IE telling people that being rude isn't nice, coming to the forums to complain, and then going back to the game to do it all again.
Like, I'm literally trying to tell you to do something different to change the situation. You said it yourself, no matter what people are going to express some form of harassment. So instead of just complaining about every little thing that bothers you, ignore it and move on with you life because you will never have a solid solution otherwise
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672024#Comment_2672024
Because I've worked in education and counselling for most of my life, and I can very much tell you that 'people saying mean things' can wear people down to the point of misery, both adults and kids - especially when it follows them home from the world into the things they do to relax. And I'm sick and tired of people making excuses for it, or trying to place the blame on the people getting hassled, not the jerks.
And I'm sick of this culture war crap too. This isn't some politically correct rant about Far Cry 5 having the wrong sort of diversity or how the new survivor is problematic or whatever. It's genuinely frustrating how the response to 'hey, maybe PC culture has gone too far' turns into 'well, that means I have to act like a massive septic butt wherever I go to own the libs'.
You also missed my point completely. I'm using a hypothetical to show you how your suggestion works once you apply it elsewhere.
There is enough nastiness in the real world. When I come home to enjoy my hobby, I don't think expecting it to be free of the same nastiness is unreasonable.
If that means we have to reward people for not acting like jerks? So be it. The result is what matters here.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672025#Comment_2672025
This.
Also - thanks. I always sense I tend to waffle, especially when threads dip into politics.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672032#Comment_2672032
Honestly, it's the sportsmanship that bothers me. I sympathize when someone is a sore loser, but gloaters...get under my skin. Especially this sort of cowardly 'well, there are no consequences for me acting like this so here we go' stuff. And while people like to put on the fashionable 'it's just the internet stop being so sensitive' brave face, I think it gets under theirs too.
And no, I'll never accept 'that's the way it is' when I can think of five easy steps to take to help make the situation better.
You are never going to eliminate ingame toxicity. But you can damn well reduce it. And it's going to be something the devs have to tackle sooner or later, because once your game stops being niche, the nature of it's community becomes important. Newbies aren't going to stick around when they start running into bully squads who will stall the game out as long as possible and tell them to uninstall in postgame.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672020#Comment_2672020
Because millennials seem to have split into two camps along political lines where one side is trying to be as PC as possible, one side is trying to be as outrageous as possible and everyone else gets caught in the crossfire.
And (as an aside) millennials are lower in empathy, higher in apathy and have a more prolonged adolescent stage developmentally than previous generations. The psych on this stuff is actually...really interesting. Naturally, this doesn't fit all or even the majority of millennials, but not all stereotypes are inaccurate.
No. As I've gotten older I've realized that you can't always stop people from being jerks, but you can damn well kick them out of the bar so everyone else can enjoy their drinks.
It's not an issue of being too pc or not. It's a matter of learning to handle your problems by yourself and not expecting constant hand holding. If the devs won't punish people for their rude actions, you should do what you can to handle it yourself instead of just complaining. Complaints without action do not solve anything at all.
Again, I agree that it shouldn't be a thing. As a player, you shouldn't have to ignore things being spewed at you from dickish players. But the fact is, as it stands, they aren't being punished, so take care of the situation yourself instead
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672004#Comment_2672004
By this logic why have laws since people are going to break them anyway?
Law
@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672004#Comment_2672004
By this logic why have laws since people are going to break them anyway?
Laws are upheld and people are punished. I've never said being a dick shouldn't be punished. Just that since it's not, you need to handle it yourself
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You could just like.. load into a match and stare at a corner for 5 mins. Let all 4 survs escape. Do this for an hour or so, and bam your mmr is lowered to a more fun level.
Not that I'm condoning going afk for no reason other than to lower your mmr.. it's kind of a lame thing to do, but it would be a semi solution for you at least.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672001#Comment_2672001
Sigh. My point is that you are somehow trying to justify toxic behavior rather than reduce toxic behavior. Which has always struck me as an odd hill to die on.
I swear, is this a millennial thing?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672004#Comment_2672004
Yes, I'm providing feedback on a forum designed for feedback on how I think this problem can be worked on.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672006#Comment_2672006
Sure.
But it did bother you. Even if just a little. Because if it didn't, there would be something wrong with you - and you probably wouldn't have remembered it. And over time...it wears on you. More and more. It makes every match a grudge match to repay the one before, and suddenly nobody is having fun. Tit for tat is a powerful instinct.
My point is that I've seen this happen to communities once a map/game got popular and the twerps find it, and if steps aren't taken to reduce it, it drives people away. Eventually, interest dries up as people leave Smite and go back to LoL.
Maybe it's because I'm older and am looking at this through the eyes of a sportsman of yesteryear, where acting like this would get you benched or even fined.
Again, I'm not saying 'just ban all the jerks'. I want to help them...act less like jerks, possibly by incentivizing good sportsmanship.
Ok, but you are dodging MY point and argument completely. The fact is, your argument of "do this in public" isn't valid because it doesn't happen. And even if it did happen, you more than likely would simply walk away, because who cares about some rando telling things at you? Probably just some drunk or druggie, so move on with your day and forget em, right? Use the same logic in the game. ESPECIALLY since it's just a game. Turn your chat off if you can't handle the scary mean words, and stare at a wall if you are "triggered" by a survivor tbagging.
Also, giving incentives to people to NOT act like dicks is just a fantastic way to show people that if they aren't rewarded for a good deed, they have no reason to do said good deed. Hence, you create even more entitled dicks that think they deserve the world just for existing. Kinda along the same lines of giving out participation awards to kids, and that's led us to the current state of the world where people's feelings get hurt over the tiniest things like a player in a video game crouching repeatedly.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671977#Comment_2671977
Interracial couples who get slurs yelled at them in the park can just avoid the park?
People who don't like having obscenities screeched at them on the sidewalk can just not walk on the sidewalk?
Kids who don't like being bullied can just not go to school?
How far exactly do you want to go with this?
No. The blame for being a jerk is on the person being a jerk, not on the person that they were a jerk too.
It really is a marvel of the modern generation and how much time you are willing to spend defending you being a crappy person...rather than just not being a crappy person.
@Fuzzels said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671998#Comment_2671998
The differences here are that in a game, you can literally just look away or turn your chat off. It's that simple.
Also, whens the last time you ACTUALLY had someone scream obscenely at you, or yell slurs at you while walking around in public? And how often is it happening? If you're answer is more than once in the last 3 years, move somewhere better. Get out of the ghetto
Like I get what you're saying, people shouldn't be so terrible. But the fact is, it's gonna happen. So unless you are doing somethjng to deal with the issue yourself, you've got no right to complain
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671977#Comment_2671977
Interracial couples who get slurs yelled at them in the park can just avoid the park?
People who don't like having obscenities screeched at them on the sidewalk can just not walk on the sidewalk?
Kids who don't like being bullied can just not go to school?
How far exactly do you want to go with this?
No. The blame for being a jerk is on the person being a jerk, not on the person that they were a jerk too.
It really is a marvel of the modern generation and how much time you are willing to spend defending you being a crappy person...rather than just not being a crappy person.
The differences here are that in a game, you can literally just look away or turn your chat off. It's that simple.
Also, whens the last time you ACTUALLY had someone scream obscenely at you, or yell slurs at you while walking around in public? And how often is it happening? If you're answer is more than once in the last 3 years, move somewhere better. Get out of the ghetto
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I mean, some people like to play the game in a very stealth and lone wolf way. I agree with you about it not being very good team play, but the fact is they bought the game just like anyone else, and they can play it how they want to. If they wanna stealth all game and watch their team die on hooks, that's their choice and they are more than free to do so
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@StarLost said:
So, as I mentioned in another thread recently - the #1 thing getting me down about this game at the moment, more than the balance issues, more than my MMR gripes, more than frigging Dead Hard and CoH combined - it's just how absolutely meanspirited survivor players tend to be.
Yes, I know, killers can be toxic too. But nowhere near as much as survivors and nowhere near as nastily. Generally when a killer gets salty its because they lost. I don't think I've ever seen a gloating killer.
You'll play as fair as possible despite it being a rough matchup, or at times even let people farm, only to get teabagged from the exit gates or flicky flicky'd until your photosensitivity issues send you to bed with a splitting headache and laughed at in postgame. Or the final two just play hide and seek until you AFK because they let you get a 3gen.
It's one thing to lose. Everyone loses. But when you have to eat the gloating of the other team being gigantic prolapsed anuses at you on top of it - yeah, that gets under your skin. I don't care how 'tough' you are, or how much of a brave face you put up...it wears on you after a while.
It actually makes this game a bit of a tough sell to my wife and the folks I play other games with - because the 'how is the community?' question tends to come up and I'm not going to lie to them. It...sucks.
Suggestions
Back in the day, League of Legends had a similar reputation, and it was strangling growth. So Riot stuck a Tribunal system in and it was a massive success. Something like 80% of toxic players reformed after their first warning, and more than half of the remainder reformed after their first short ban.
Now as much as I'd like a LoL style Tribunal system to find these people a new game to play, that's probably too much overhead.
So...it got me thinking.
What if those Thumbs Up things in postgame actually did something?
Say, after a game, you could choose to vote an opponent from the other side up and give them BP. It doesn't have to be much - maybe 10,000 or so. This would encourage people to not be jerks, because they'd be losing out on BP.
Hell, if I was in charge I'd look at punishing survivors for BMing but...yeah. That's likely just because I'm annoyed. And have a headache from the strobing.
TL/DR:
Is there a way to persuade people to manner up in DbD, be it via punitive actions or a reward system?
You could just like.. not look at the survivors tbagging and flashlighting? Easy solution my dude. Also just turn your chat off if you can't handle the scary mean words. Maybe stay off the internet too while you're at it. People in general suck. Anonymity only enhances that
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670821#Comment_2670821
Yeah unfortunately, I wish it was a bit better.
Well to be fair, it would be really stupid if she could send out 3 birds, swarm 3 people, then shoot out 3 more birds, injuring or downing 3 people, all at once. Obviously the likelyhood of that happening would be incredibly slim, but it should never be a possibility at all. Even the idea of downing 2 people at once with a MAP WIDE range attack is silly. I feel like the set up she has right now is alright.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2668476#Comment_2668476
Hold W basically. Also I was more excited for her long range sniping playing her kinda like a Huntress but the cooldown on the ability is too long to where by the time it's back up the crows are already long off anyway, even with addons.
If were left just playing her like a Hag cutting off loops that's pretty boring to me as well simply from a fun stand point.
The recharge is based off how many birds you send. If you shoot all your birds, yeah the CD is way too long. If you want to land snipe hits, you need to send one bird to swarm, wait for the recharge, then attempt to snipe.
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She feels like a nurse situation. Stupidly oppressive and absolutely unfun to play against when she's played at a high level and good skill, but stupid easy to run for days when played at a low skill. Obviously she's still new so saying high skill isn't all that viable just yet, but even still. When she plays properly, the only real counter play is to run to the next loop, attempt to break LOS and stay hidden and that's only if you aren't dealing with a swarm. Not only that, but she's kind of bringing back vibes of old deathslinger and PH. She has what is essentially free zoning, and in some cases you either take a bird hit or an M1 hit with no counter available and she can just take placing a bird for absolutely free zoning. Also being a killer with a ranged ability and also being 115 seems wrong. Every other ranged killer is 110, so why is she any different? Doesn't seem fair. I get that she's only got lethal on long range attacks AFTER someone is swarmed, but even still. And there's still the fact that she can 100% shut down a loop just by placing a bird in a specific direction, and that bird WILL damage you without the swarm first as you're more than likely going to be close enough to its lethal hit range
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@GrayEyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/296727/i-love-playing-killer
Not trying to ######### on you but I think out of the last 40 games I've played 30 were swfs with all meta perks the typical build was dead hard, borrowed time, circle of healing, and prove thyself
You can refuse to believe me all you want but ik what I played against and I gain nothing from lying about it so go ahead and don't believe
But I know for a fact I'm at the highest mmr cause I get 2-3 kills every game cause I always play basement trapper
So again I gain nothing by lying ik what I'm facing and ik it's not fun
@Sakurra said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/296727/i-love-playing-killer
You are wrong. They will insult you in chat for nothing. Of course I never talk to them. I have better things to do. I would say 90% of them (clicky clicky and teabaggers) will talk ######### things in chat. Even if they escape or die. No exceptions.
Can either of your submit any tangible proof? Uncut video of these 50 games maybe? Screenshots even? Anything at all other than just "yeah I said so"? Because I mean if that's all the proof we need to make a claim, well dude, I'll tell you a secret.. I'm actually Elvis Presley. And you have to believe me because I said so. I can't give you proof, but I said so. So it's fact.
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@Sakurra said:
And why are you talking about that guy? I have no idea why you people like him. He's very disagreeable.
Even if you don't like him he still makes strong arguments that are hard to contest. He's a smart guy, and he understand the game on a very very deep level. You can dislike someone and still understand that they have valid thoughts, opinions, and suggestions