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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100811#Comment_4100811
I think the killer should be able to resign or abandon once a gate has been open for 60 seconds. A perfectly reasonable option.A game design proposal isn't a question of being reasonable or not by itself. Its a question of what do be want in the game (subjective) and what type of gameplay will occur based on that change (predictive).
If the killer wants to keep contesting the match they don't have to resign.I'm, openly, a proponent of more abandon options. I hate the end game as killer, especially when it gets drawn out, and have no attachment to my kill rate. If I had a survivor on hook and the others were gathering for the save (especially if I had to wait for them to heal up), I'd probably just abandon and move onto a more interesting game (right now I play it out to be a good sport, but if there was an abandon that is the game is giving me permission to leave).
Now maybe I'm extremely rare, but if I'm not, what happens? (players like me don't have to be common, even 1 out of 20 would have an impact) Lots of survivors get unsatisfying end games and kill rates overall drop. The change in design (potentially, but I think likely) has a rather profound effect on the game (compare to survivor abandon with four downs, if that didn't exist I doubt it would make any meaningful impact on the kill rate data).
Instead of letting survivors instantly abandon they could add a 10-20 second delay so if someone has Unbreakable or something else they can make a play before the rest of the team becomes bots. A very simple solution.Simple yes, but is it a solution?
We now have three scenarios where this comes up
1: All the survivors are downed, no one has a perk that would make a difference, thus everyone has to wait 10 to 20 seconds for no reason. By itself no issue in a single game, but incredibly annoying when dozens/hundreds/thousands of games are taken into account.
2: A survivor does have a perk that allows them to get back up/off the hook. We now have two situations:
A: they get other survivors up and the game becomes competitive. This is the situation where obviously we don't want survivors to abandon.
B: the survivor gets back up, but is downed by the killer with no realistic chance of actually advancing the game. I'd say this just draws out the game in an unnecessary manner.
I'd also add the same argument
If the killer wants to keep contesting the match they don't have to resign.applies here - survivors don't have to abandon if they don't want to (and now can see each others perks). So if someone has unbreakable (or related perk) and a chance to get back up, the survivors can stay in. Except that isn't what happens, people just take the abandon, which is exactly what would happen on the killer side.3: Survivors do have a perk that allows them to get back up, but is crawling/waiting for the right time to trigger it, but the abandon option triggers before that. The simple solution thus still leaves the 'problem' in some instances (frequency depending on timer).
I believe situation 2A to be extremely rare that the survivors are able to meaningfully to advance the game after everyone is dead/down/hooked, thus making a 10 to 20 second timer just wasteful in the vast majority of instances.
and/or the survivors are just sitting in the exit gateThis is another example of just coding issues. If you make it so the killer can leave when the survivors are in the exit gate trolling, then trolls just stand slightly outside the exit gate to troll. It's a time waster that doesn't actually bring a solution to the problem.
In your killer abandon scenario I think most abandons would happen on the chase out the door rather than get hook > abandon. I like to keep my suggestions as simple but if they could code in something for the hooked scenario that'd be great. However, with basekit BT lasting for 66m I don't think this save scenario is gameplay worth saving either for most killers. No matter the case, there isn't much point in speculating without actually trying it out.
I should not have said solution, as there are no perfect solutions in DbD. Arguably I can't even say improvement, because we're wasting 10-20 seconds of the survivors time most of the time for no enjoyment. It would be a compromise.
The reason I suggested it is because it is simple and easy to implement, which unfortunately kind of necessary for BHVR. They tend not to implement sophisticated solutions and when they do they don't turn out right. How the abandon system negates MMR changes is a perfect example of that.
I don't think the 10-20 second delay is worthless MMR-wise either. That time would allow the killer to sacrifice 1-2 survivors before they can abandon which would preserve the MMR changes that should be happening in this scenario but don't because the abandon system is poorly implemented.
Also I don't care wasting about 10-20 seconds of survivor time in games when they get stomped because killers don't have a similar option when they get stomped. 10-20 seconds is still way better than what we had before abandons where Slugging Sally could waste 4 minutes of those survivors' time.
What are you on about with that exit gate coding crap. I never suggesting anything like that. It's all still part of the 60s after a gate opens>resign option I've been pushing. You're just pointing out another scenario I have already thought of which is why I suggest a simple 60s rule. Also the 60s rule would have a knock-on effect: once survivors know it's in place they'd leave more often on their own instead of waiting just to bm.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100804#Comment_4100804
If the killer is done the game is over, simple as thatIf at any point one side just stops playing the game is over. The game could be 15 seconds in and if the killer stops playing the game is over. That doesn't mean we should just go to abandon at any point of the game.
If you want to use that logic then it can be argued that survivors should not be able to instantly abandon once everyone is slugged because what if Unbreakable, Conviction etcLet's say BHVR spent time, that could be spent on bugs or new content, coding to detect whether any survivor has an active Unbreakable, Conviction, or other perk that would allow to get them off the ground, and if any was in play then the abandon would not appear.
If they wasted the time doing that, would you agree that survivors should be the only ones to have the abandon option in this scenario? Or is it a red herring to the issue?
Heck if the last survivor standing has Plot Twist and are injured they can down themself and insta-abandon, which is ridiculous.It shouldn't as plot twist doesn't trigger the abandon mechanic - something they put in when they introduced abandons just based on killer worries about a hypothetical.
I'm not arguing that killers should be able to up and abandon at any point in the game.
I think the killer should be able to resign or abandon once a gate has been open for 60 seconds. A perfectly reasonable option. If the killer wants to keep contesting the match they don't have to resign. But if the killer doesn't have a target in sight and/or the survivors are just sitting in the exit gate, the killer should not have to push them out.
As for that slug scenario you're overcomplicating it. Instead of letting survivors instantly abandon they could add a 10-20 second delay so if someone has Unbreakable or something else they can make a play before the rest of the team becomes bots. A very simple solution.
I'll have to test Plot Twist if I ever get the motivation to play survivor again. Probably won't happen until Halloween and I'll forget.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100744#Comment_4100744
We’re talking about when the game is literally over, not when someone just feels like it’s over because they’re not doing well.
But the game is NOT literally over in EGC, the Killer just feels like the game is over because they didn't do well.
Survivors are given the abandon option when everyone is slugged; otherwise it would take four minutes to bleed out. It does not take the Killer four minutes to push Survivors out the gate, nor does it even take four minutes if they choose not to. Their wounds regarding wanting to abandon after the gens are done are entirely self-inflicted.
If the killer is done the game is over, simple as that. Killers shouldn't have to push them out or wait out the full 2 minutes almost every time because frequently there is a survivor that waits until the last second to leave.
If you want to use that logic then it can be argued that survivors should not be able to instantly abandon once everyone is slugged because what if Unbreakable, Conviction etc. Heck if the last survivor standing has Plot Twist and are injured they can down themself and insta-abandon, which is ridiculous.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100451#Comment_4100451
until bhvr adds killer bots there is a great reason. If survivors do not escape the gate they do not get their adepts. Challenges and achievements in which require gates to be opened. Like the rpd achievement requiring specific amount of gates to be opened.
A killer dcing or in this case abandoning at this moment would deny any and all of those.
until we get a killer bot, or achievement requirements are changed, killers should not be able to deny them.In case some of you weren’t around prior to survivor bots killer adepts could be entirely denied by 1 survivor dc, this was also back when killer adepts were significantly harder to do if i may add.
I’m sorry but it felt awful back then doing killer adepts, i would be a hypocrite to not say this wouldn’t be fair for surviors. Especially solo q survivors who just get the brunt end of the stick in the majority of their matches.
I think this is a false flag.
I have earned my adept achievements on all the survivors I own and I have earned adepts when a killer DCs, as long as it's not in the first few minutes of a match. IIRC I got my Vee adept like that. I think if the game passes a certain threshold, probably 5 minutes, you can earn the adept if the killer DCs.
However, if that's not the case, which I admit it could be different on other platforms, that's why I advocate for the killer not being able to abandon right after opening the gate but 60 seconds after a gate has opened. If a survivor wants that adept, LEAVE.
I don't want to see killer bots because back when that code was in the backend hackers used it to make ridiculous killer bots. Also, I don't want to play against killer bots under any circumstances. I'd rather the match end prematurely or let me abandon vs killer bots.
@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD's idea of leaving the killer stationary without ending the match after they abandon would be fine compromise.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100766#Comment_4100766
Comparing the raw numbers does not really make sense, because Killer Perks are usually stronger than Survivor Perks. There are far more Survivor Perks which require insane amount of activation for a mediocre effect. Sure, there are Killer Perks which are the same, but their number is lower and usually Killer Perks are simply better for the fact that not all Killers are the same, so a Perk which is bad or mediocre on some Killers can be really good on others.
And well, it is already accounted for that the Killer only has 4 Perks compared to the Survivor Team. The Perks in itself are better. E.g. the Gen Slowdown Perks are stronger than Gen Progression Perks. Perks which grant information (e.g. Aura Read) are stronger than Perks which should hide information. And probably many other examples.
Adding a fifth Perk Slot would just be a massive influence on the overall balance. Way more than previous things, e.g. increasing Gen Repair Time or Hook Stage Timers.
Your first question was "Why?" Well why not, as a temporary game mode?
It would change things up, in what many could agree is a very stale game.
It might give the more obscure killer perks a chance to shine.
Maybe it wouldn't have as much of an effect on match outcomes as you think it would.
I think it is worth a try.
If it turns out to be too killer-sided after the first week, give the survivors morsels for the second week.
I really think they should try "let's just try crazy stuff" temporary modifiers rather than 2v8 and Chaos Shuffle on repeat.
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I agree. The wreaths and flowers are just bloodweb bloat at this point.
But most offerings are just bloodweb bloat at this point.
- Luck offerings? I'm surprised they haven't removed them already as they just help people go next.
- Basement modifiers? Just more useless crap.
- Weaker Fog modifiers? Also crap.
- Map offerings? Practically worthless now too.
But unfortunately the "bloodpoint economy" has to be preserved. 🙄
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It's not a totally insane idea. The other team gets to bring 16 perks and can have multiple instances of the same perk as well.
The change up would make for a whole new crazy era of killer perk builds using 5 slots. 5 totem builds would be crazy.
This is the type of thing they should throw in a temporary 2 week game mode for and just see what happens.
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Yep. This is why I kind of like SoloQ when I play survivor. If a game goes badly, and they often do, I can get sacrificed, killed or abandon and usually be in the next lobby in under a minute.
I just hate getting slugged, as it is rather boring. Perhaps I should run No Mither all the time?
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100643#Comment_4100643
Best not to engage with some folk, Entity. Some people are just abrasive and very seldom use anything but presumptuous no faith arguments.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100604#Comment_4100604
Fireup has gen completion requirements. If you remove those from Fireup, or add gen completion conditions to Vigil, I'd say we're be on the same page.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100576#Comment_4100576
Concurred. I regularly just mark anyone I see with SB as 'to be ignored' and then go after their teammates. Vigil just contributes to furthering the incentive to tunnel whoever doesn't have it.
Yes, you are definitely right. But arguing with him is currently more fun than playing DbD. 😂
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100643#Comment_4100643
Lol, survivors should be balanced but killers are A okay being broken and overpowered. I just can't with you. Like do you not hear yourself before you type something out?
What killers are broken and overpowered?
Looking at kill rates no killers are actually broken and overpowered. Who's actually overpowered and why? Tier lists put Nurse at the top but her kill rate is in the dumpster because her skill floor is so high. I love playing against Nurses because I know how to run them and they are usually terrible. Blight is better off but he isn't broken or overpowered.
I guess a garbage analogy was the best you can do because now you have to resort to insults. My posts are quite reasonable compared to your emotional two line responses.
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Luck usually.
Spawns are surprisingly inconsistent now. As killer I used to travel to the farthest corner of the map from the place I spawned and guaranteed I would find someone. But now survivors spawn together and usually not as far as possible from the killer so it makes more sense to just rotate around the map until you find the survivors.
If the survivors spawn close and the killer rotates the right way, we get your scenario of "How did the killer find us so quickly?"
If the killer rotates the wrong way a generator pops before the killer even sees their first sign of a survivor.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100574#Comment_4100574
This is why we need a global stats tracker section on the official stats tracker, if even if its your escape rate/kill rate vs the world one
I agree with you. I'd love to see more stats and live stats would be amazing. I'd love to see figures for what percentage of players are solo, duo, trio and full quads.
But considering how stingy BHVR has historically been with stats I am confident we'll never get a stats tracker.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100572#Comment_4100572
Sure, if that could also be the case for survivors that abandon the moment all survivors are on hook or down.
No argument from me here. Currently, the abandon system is very poorly implemented. I think all abandons should affect MMR.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100576#Comment_4100576
Lol that's like saying removing Jason and Nurse would be more balanced than what we have now. The goal of balancing something should not be making it so awful it's essentially gone.
Is that the best you can do? A garbage analogy?
I said it would the best boon. So you think all boons are garbage then?
Perks, especially survivor perks, should be balanced. There shouldn't be one perk that's on all the time attached to a mobile source (a survivor) that buffs almost all of the exhausting perks and many more perks besides that and debuffs many killer perks and killer powers. All for the cost of a single survivor perk slot when a team of survivors can bring 16 perks.
Boon: Vigil would still be powerful without needing to be 200% (your only suggestion). Surely you can actually come up with an argument as to why it'd be "so awful it's essentially gone", preferably in a reply that takes more than two sentences.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100570#Comment_4100570
Man I bet you think illumination is strong too. I seriously can't believe you think this would be a balanced change, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
So passive aggressive.
It'd be more balanced than the current Vigil we have now. At least survivors would have to do more than equip Sprint Burst and Vigil to be able to pre-run off their gen as soon as they spot the killer or hear the terror radius and repeat the cycle every 30 seconds while the killer targets their teammates.
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At the absolute earliest they might release some stats around Halloween but I think it is more than likely we won't see another stat drop in 2026, possibly not until mid-2027.
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BHVR has a very consistent pattern of overpromising, overhyping and underdelivering. Sometimes they don't deliver at all.
This is why I am not excited at all for modding. It might not happen at all and if it does it'll likely be weak. It's a year out anyway.
Remember they announced before the 9th anniversary that it was the last Masquerade so they had over year to work on the Black Banquet and look how well that turned out.
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Once a gate has been open for 60 seconds I think the killer should be able to resign. Not abandon. Resigning would give all remaining survivors full credit for escaping including the MMR gain and MMR loss for the killer.
If the killer is done trying all that's left for survivors to do is heal (which they probably have already done), cleanse dull totems, open chests and bm the killer which could include using Plot Twist to extend the timer. That's not gameplay worth preserving.
I also think slugs in the 2v1 scenario should be able to resign after 60 seconds.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100562#Comment_4100562
Yeah, you are making it nearly worthless, it'd have to be an extremely high recovery rate.
66% is a high recovery rate already. At 66% an exhaustion perk recovers in 24 seconds instead of 40. That's far from "nearly worthless."
If Vigil were a boon it'd be the best boon in the game.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100278#Comment_4100278
Mainly because it just straight up ends the game on the spot. Personally idk why they haven't added killer bots to replace killers who DC.
and also in egc you can still secure a kill. I've done it a bunch of times, if i have someone in chase injured when gates open then i can usualy end them.
So what if it ends the game on the spot? What is left for the survivors to do? The generators are done and the gates are open. That leaves healing, opening chests, cleansing dull totems and bming the killer and that's it if the killer is done trying. That's not gameplay worth preserving so the killer should have the option to resign.
If someone wants to secure a kill or more in Endgame they're not going to resign.
I don't think the killer should just be able to open the gate and resign. I think 60 seconds after a gate opens would be good.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100304#Comment_4100304
Sure, I can specify.
It would be a buff because boons hold a range of 24m static, whereas Vigil holds 16. That's a 50% buff in range from the current Vigil. Vigil does not need a 50% buff, but I am not ignorant to the 'it is static now' nature. However, Vigil is most useful when it can hit multiple survivors. If you coordinate a team and arrange the boon appropriately, you can assure that anyone working in a specified area will gain the benefits. That's a considerable buff. It's harder for teams to coordinate and update people on their present location within 16 meters than it is to plop down a totem.
I don't personally care all that much if totems can be snuffed, as killers (short of sacing a perk on shattered hope) have no way to permanently shut it down. It can just be replaced over and over again ad nauseum - and given how strong vigil is, it's worth it to do so.
As to the boon interactions, the ones that particularly gruff me are circle of healing (I know I can't believe I'm saying it either) and Shadow step, and dark theory. You could establish an entire 24m radius bubble of the map under which survivors have secured stealth, haste, faster status and exhaustion recovery, and heal faster if tagged. This makes the boon a required snuff if the Killer wishes to engage. Otherwise, you tag someone, they take injury bonus and disappear with no aura read or scratch marks, get healed faster by their team, whilst the killer is likely being distracted.
Vigil being a boon would just be a mistake, until they address boons versus totems. The idea of Killers not being able to flat out break totems the same way survivors can really makes the asymm balance of that particular mechanic difficult to deal with.I disagree with you that a 24m static Vigil boon with either a 4 second or lingering effect (standard for already existing boons, part of my last post ignored) is nearly as useful as a mobile 16m always on perk with a 15 second linger.
I don't think the stacking is an issue because we already see players running quad boon builds and it's a huge tradeoff that I am fine with. A survivor has to have skills like Ayrun to survive long with a build like that. Resetting boons is also a major tradeoff as they have to travel to and from the totem and spend 14 seconds blessing it. Only a few totem locations on certain maps are really strong such as upstairs in Ironworks of Misery, Eyrie of Crows or downstairs in the Temple of Purgation, almost all other totem locations are barely an inconvenience for a killer to find and snuff.
I do think boons should get a change, such as the blessing time increasing every time they bless a totem, perhaps by 5 to 10 seconds each time.
But even with every bless being 14 seconds I don't see how making Vigil a boon could be considered a buff. In the matches I play and observe boons aren't up even a third of the time whereas current Vigil is always on.
@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100286#Comment_4100286
I think if you make it 200% recovery it could work as a boon.
200%? That would mean survivors would recover their exhaustion perks in under 14 seconds inside the zone. I think that's too much. Especially when they could be working on a gen, opening a chest or healing in the zone.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100276#Comment_4100276
I can't imagine they did. With Vigil freddy's snares are damn near non-existent.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100286#Comment_4100286
Absolutely not a boon on the surv side. That would enhance the range, and allow it to stack with other boons. It's silly to think of buffing vigil that way, whilst also saying 'we don't need a killer version.'https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100290#Comment_4100290
I'd be good with that. It's just too much now and it hitting basekit anything shouldn't happen. Either take exhaustion off of it or nuke it down a bit.
Making it a boon would not be a buff. It would have to be set up, it would have a fixed location and it could be snuffed. The lack of mobility would make up for the extra range. I don't think it stacking with other boons would be an issue, unless you'd care to address specific examples.
Also I think the lingering effect should be lessened (boons linger for 2/3/4 seconds if at all) or eliminated entirely. 15 seconds is an eternity when I applied to cooldowns/status effects.
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Vigil should be a boon and not affect exposed.
We don't need a killer version.
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I play a lot of Legion, especially during events. I also enjoy playing against Legion as survivor as there is some decent counterplay.
I think they are in a good place and they have a decent set of addons.
I'd hate to see them get ruined with a rework.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100162#Comment_4100162
Well the game ends after 2 minutes, and you can open the gates yourself.
And survivors can Plot Twist and make it longer too.
Killers should be able to resign in EGC. I have yet to hear a good reason for this to not exist.
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Yes, it is tunneling. No one cares about bots. Often the other survivors just let the bot die on the hook.
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@TheVarietyKiller said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100178#Comment_4100178
Nightlight is the most consistent data we can get, and represents the people who are actually committed to the game longterm, with knowledge. And it shows that certain killers, once you know what to do, are a one sided stomp. Just look at Sadako, put her against a team that actually understands her, she’s getting a 1K at best.
Bhvr collects from the general player base, which includes the stereotypical solo queue survivors who will throw games. The game should, probably, be balanced around knowing instead of ignorance.I think that the data on Nightlight is useful to look at, but unfortunately people like us are a very small minority on this forum. Seeing the average kill rate on Nightlight holding steady at 49% or lower over the last few months should make people pause for thought.
But most forum members here consider Nightlight's data flawed and completely disregard it and to ice the Torte, downvote posts citing it into oblivion.
It's unfortunate.
It's not like BHVR has perfect data either. There are new survivors in the game that don't escape because they have no idea what that the killers they're facing are capable of. Survivors who don't even know how to mend. Survivors who hear a Nurse screech or whatever and just give up seconds into matches. Survivors who let their teammates die on the 1st or 2nd hooks. It all skews the data.
No data is perfect.
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Jurassic Park could definitely be considered horror, so it could have a place in DbD.
As its own chapter? Not sure about that one. Sure there's a bunch of people who could be survivors. But the killer? A raptor? The things a raptor can do have already been done. How would a raptor be unique and powerful in it's own right and still be a raptor in DbD? We already have Demogorgon, Xenomorph and a whole lot of dash slop killers already.
I could see a crossover for cosmetics, BHVR does like that easy money.
I must admit though, a Jurassic Park map could be really cool.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100046#Comment_4100046
122k left and little under 6h seems totally possible
Yeah it's prime time in Japan, it'll get done.
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We got that Black Banquet quest, yes.
Now the question is if we'll get the La Fogata community quest done. It has 7 hours left and we still need over 400k hooks. And the prize is 150k bloodpoints and a pretty cool badge.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100005#Comment_4100005
Points and visuals have nothing to do with gameplay. I don't really care if the exit gate has garland or the basement has Christmas trees. I have nothing to say about it because I don't care about it. You brought it up because you care.
I'm comparing it to all events. Yes people interacted with the invitations. It was pretty easy to do so unlike, say, making a void crystal. But I can't say I saw a lot of people singing the praises of the masquerade either. Of course now they will, because it's gone.
Cosmetics have been given through event progress for awhile. In-game acquiring hasn't happened in the masquerade for years, and it's still irrelevant to gameplay. We still got two cosmetics related to the event and two that were just dropped in our inboxes. It seems like you just don't like that the game has changed some things like tomes which is fine, but it's still irrelevant to gameplay.
The only point you really have is that killers got their ability by interacting instead of passively gaining and yes, that should change for next time.
Fine, if all you care about is gameplay then I'll tear that down too.
You call these effects "trying something new" but really the invincibility and speed boost morsels are just rehashed old Dead Hard but harder to time and the counterplay as killer was the same as old Dead Hard, wait it out. The whole team heals existed in the last 2 Masquerades but the survivors had less control over it and they got exposed when it happened. Portals are certainly not new. Invisibility was new but that got old fast as survivors used it to pre-run ending chases before they even began or they used it close and then killers could follow with their ears. Replacing generators with Banquet tables is new but we could see that was a bad idea with all the tight generators groupings we saw. The Banquet Tile was weaker than every tile it replaced and was boring with a single pallet.
Just because cosmetics have been given out this way for a while doesn't make it any more acceptable. In fact it makes it even more stale.
Sure, people weren't singing the praises of the Masquerade but it certainly didn't get the backlash the Black Banquet got, in any of its 4 years. It seemed to me like every DbD content creator on Youtube made a negative video about the Black Banquet and they weren't just griping about cakes. In fact I can't recall any non-anniversary events experiencing anywhere close to the same backlash either.
I wish I could have found joy in the Black Banquet like you did.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099917#Comment_4099917
If you didn't select killers who could play well around event elements such as the unbreakable pallets, you got punished.
This is the exact same thing people say about 1v4 constantly. It's always going to be that way with so many killer kits and so much power creep, this just had a different balance shift from the normal self imposed limitations.
I sure don't have your memory of other events being great. Most of them people just play like normal. At least the banquet had players constantly engaging with the event elements. This one had more going on than any of the previous ones with three distinct versions and the way they designed the dishes means it'll probably change every time, which would be very refreshing.
Low tier killers being weak is a problem in 1v4 and the event just made it even worse. It should not be possible to lock Ghostface near Gideon Meat Plant's basement for an extended period as was possible during the Black Banquet.
You didn't take issue on points about the visual and event bloodpoints, so it seems like you can't defend the Black Banquet being good on those fronts.
You seem to be confusing non-anniversary events with anniversary events. I played during past anniversaries and players, both killers and survivors, were constantly interacting with the Pillars because they either wanted the cosmetics they granted or the ability to use event powers. It is in Haunted by Daylight and Bone Chill where players more often ignored event mechanics.
I'll bring up more points about how past anniversaries were better:
- Interacting with the game in the match to earn cosmetics. During the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th anniversaries we had to collect crowns/invitations in the matches to get our cosmetics. Granted they gave away all the crowns with a single code later on, but collecting the crowns at the time was a fun challenge. This year most people had all the cosmetics on day 2 and there were zero in game interactions to get them.
- Event Tomes. The 6th & 7th anniversaries had tomes players had to actually get through to earn the cosmetics and the 8th anniversary was similar but instead you earned trinkets the event currency with which you bought the cosmetics with. Say what you will about the old tome system, but it certainly was more interesting and interactive than the quest system we have now where you can ignore it completely and still get everything.
- The Bag of Tryks mechanic was something I rather enjoyed in 8th and 9th anniversaries, the chaos was much better than the survivor controlled mechanic of the Black Banquet.
- During the 8th and 9th anniversaries killers actually had to collect invitations from Masquerade Pillars to use their event abilities rather than just passively gaining poison.
- Love her or hate her, we got the mascot Tryks during the 8th and 9th anniversaries.
It's hard for me to look at the Black Banquet and think it was good. It was meh, especially for how hard it was hyped.
- Interacting with the game in the match to earn cosmetics. During the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th anniversaries we had to collect crowns/invitations in the matches to get our cosmetics. Granted they gave away all the crowns with a single code later on, but collecting the crowns at the time was a fun challenge. This year most people had all the cosmetics on day 2 and there were zero in game interactions to get them.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099736#Comment_4099736
"grinding" is a strong word considering that people were just playing. Nobody really grinded for that community challenge.
I agree with LordGlint that it was a grind, especially for me. Was I grinding for this community goal? Certainly not. I was grinding for Tortes and I wanted to play killer and the queue times were better in the event queue so I played it. But the overall experience wasn't very fun and was very much a grind.
All the community goal did was let me know I played just over 200 matches during the event.
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They announced before the 9th anniversary that it was the last Masquerade so they've had a long time to work on the Black Banquet. They generated insane hype for the 10th anniversary. They underdelivered.
I don't see the points made in the OP as anything new.
All events change the gameplay loop in some fashion. I wouldn't call the Banquet tables a second objective at all since it was entirely optional. Many players completely ignored them and just used the morsels, unless a cart was right next to a table in which case it got abused. Carts were abundant enough that survivors didn't have to go out of their way very much to grab a morsel.
It got players to play different killers in a negative way. If you didn't select killers who could play well around event elements such as the unbreakable pallets, you got punished. It basically cut off the bottom half of the killer tier list with a few exceptions.
The event was poorly decorated. Aside from the bright red the event's color palette failed to stand out. Hooks and lockers had bland, easy-to-miss decorations. Barrels were undecorated and extinguished. Were the gates even decorated? Certain maps had some interestingly decorated central areas and some maps could spawn the Banquet Tile, but it was all just the same tables, chairs, bottles of Bububbles and stacks of dirty dishes copied and pasted over and over. Compared to the unmissable garish blue and silver decorations of the Masquerade and the spinning figurines it had, the Banquet is entirely forgettable visually. This goes for the event cosmetics as well.
The bloodpoints scored for doing the event were pathetic. Only completing a Banquet Payoff scored 2500 and every other score was 200-300 and many of those had limits, you could only score for eating dessert 8 or 10 times. On top of that, the small amount of event points you did score wasn't multiplied by Tortes and other multipliers.
This event is a good thing for BHVR because it lowers the expectations of all the newer players that joined with Jason's chapter. These newer players are being conditioned to expect less. How dare those of us who remember better times have high expectations.
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Looping and mind games are skill expression.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099408#Comment_4099408
Try playing against nurse in EU on high MMR. Those people will show you no mercy.
You say that like it's not something I already expect. I started playing in 2018 back when every third killer was a Nurse. I used to get my face blink-smashed in on the regular, often by Nurses with 3-4 blinks. That's how I got good at looping them and acquired a taste for looping them.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099542#Comment_4099542
Oh, accurate enough? Let's look at Lich. Official killrate, released 3 months ago, of 65%. Nightlight has him at 50%. That's not really accurate enough at all.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/J3OA25RT9AVI/1000014740.jpg
Oh, and it's based on less than 300 matches voluntarily uploaded to the site. No indication of how many people uploaded those matches. Heck, could have been one or two people. I'll stick to the official stats based on thousands of matches rather than a tiny sample size of a couple hundred cherry-picked ones from a site that excludes majority of the playerbase. But if those 296 games hold more weight for you, well, you do you boo. Good luck with that.
Sure Nightlight might be a higher MMR snapshot than official stats but it's still not completely useless information.
As for that Lich stat, I'd argue that's a product of DbD's poor tutorials. The Lich has a pretty complicated power.
I know from experience during the event that there are a lot of new survivors who are absolutely clueless about killer mechanics. Survivors who aren't mending against a Legion who left them to their own devices.
BHVR is looking at skewed stats rather than making the learning curve easier they make the game easier for survivors overall.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099275#Comment_4099275
These are all things that are added to tell killers "Go after someone else". But, that hasn't sunken in.
Basekit DS (60 seconds) and Basekit Unbreakable (45 seconds) for the first hooked survivor, cancelled when you hook someone else (or they perform a conspicuous action), would significantly improve the experience for that first survivor and give more hope to the rest of the team.
Also the Anti-Camp should work if a slugged survivor is nearby, in general.
Not even a qualifier like a no gens done requirement? If the killer has a bad game vs a SWF or group of skilled solos and gets their first down after 3 gens pop, the killer has now even less chance of getting a kill and may as well go sit in a corner.
Even adding a no gens done requirement wouldn't be good enough as crafty SWFs would 99 gens to work around it. And they'd weaponize that basekit DS.
If such a mechanic were introduced, killers turn to 4 man slugging at 5 gens.
As I said earlier, it's a nuanced problem without an easy solution.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099531#Comment_4099531
Nightlight is not accurate lol that's also been well established. I'm surprised people still refer to it tbh.
Yeah well it's accurate enough to show that the kill rate isn't anywhere close to actually being 60%, even if you give it a very generous margin of error.
Before Jason dropped I was watching the stat and it was steady at 48% for a while.
Brimstoneslinger is right. Survivors got info on the HUD, higher pallet density, anti-facecamp, basekit BT buffed up to 15 seconds, longer hook states, a gen regress limit, hook grabs removed and I'm sure we're forgetting something else. Meanwhile killers got 5% kicks and … what else?
But kill rates haven't fallen in the last 3 years because NiGhTlIgHt Is iNaCcUrAte.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099527#Comment_4099527
The changes i mentioned came from the 6.1.0 update, the intended purpose of which was to increase kill rates from 50% to 60% (and the devs announced 3 months later that the update had succeeded in their goal). So I would argue that there was very little impactful compensation.
And now the average kill rate is 49% across all killers according to Nightlight. So clearly the changes since 6.1.0 have been more advantageous to survivors.
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Option 5: A lot of killers have the option to go around or through the body blocker without issue. Nurse, Blight, Billy have the mobility. Myers can clip right through with a short stalk. Etc.
Option 6. Slug the body blocker.
I dislike this suggested change to DS. Imagine being an innocent non-tunneling killer who picks up a survivor 79 seconds after they got unhooked to get hit with a DS stun.
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You paid for the game and the DLC and you can enjoy it however you like.
Ignore the haters and don't let pressure from other players influence how or if you play. There's no fun in that.
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It's all subjective.
You think the Nurse is boring, but for me she is my favorite killer to face in the game.
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Terrible.
The hooks you're just asking for reversions of previous changes made. And why remove safe hook score events without compensating for it?
The generator section is heavy-handed and hard to understand let alone implement.
As for limiting survivor healing actions that's not a good solution, the healing perks should be be focused on instead of that. For boons I'd like to see it take longer to set subsequent boons, i.e. 1st: 14s, 2nd 19s, 3rd 24s, etc., because then it gives survivors a dynamic choice of whether or not to waste time resetting boons rather than just a boring limit.
The survivor bloodpoint section is already how the base game blood points system works. Just make the score events larger rather than complicating things with a multiplier. And cleansing a dull totem is already too rewarding BP-wise. I'd like to see a BP score floor implemented for cases where survivors get eliminated early by a hard tunnel. Nothing sucks worse than burning a cake to only get <10k on the scoreboard. I think that floor should be 15k BP.
For EGC I agree that base kit BT should be reduced to 8 seconds or maybe less once the gates are powered. As for the rest of your EGC changes they just complicate the game for no benefit.
The rest is crap too. Thanks for posting.
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@BloodBehemoth said:
I'll make you a deal. I'd agree to giving survivors an Abandon option if they are in the dying state for more than 60 seconds while 1 other survivor remains alive and on their feet, if killers get to Abandon the moment the EGC begins and no survivor is hooked or dying.
You can even replace the killer with a generic bare-bones chase + M1 bot. It's the end of the match, who's gonna care? The bully squads that want to force someone to watch them leave? Who gives a **** what they think anyway?
Personally I am fine with this too.
But a lot of survivor mains are resistant to the idea of killers being able to just open the gate and abandon.
A decent compromise might be 60 seconds in both scenarios. Slugged for 60 seconds in the 2v1 a survivor could abandon or 60 seconds after EGC starts killer could abandon.
Not ideal but easy to implement reduced misery for both sides.
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I've been seeing survivors so new they don't know how or why to mend. It's sad that mending isn't in the tutorial as it is such a common condition.
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I've always thought this was a cheesy, ridiculous synergy. Serpent is a brown addon so it shouldn't become meta when combined with an already meta perk.
The only reason this is an intended effect is to sell more Stranger Things 2 DLCs as Turn Back The Clock is currently the biggest P2W perk in the game.
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The 1v2 slugging for the 4k scenario really should be addressed. If the killer puts that survivor on a hook they have the option to make no attempt on 2 skill checks and they're sacrificed. If they get left slugged and don't get an abandon option they should have an option to speed up the the bleed out with a "hold the wound open" interaction or the slug should just bleed faster automatically in that scenario. Instead of it taking 4 minutes get it down to 90 seconds at most.
But I also think killers should have the option to abandon 60 seconds after Endgame starts. Far too often there's one survivor who just refuses to leave for no other reason but to spite the killer. I think most of those survivors would leave of their own accord if they knew the killer can just abandon without having to escort them out and see them teabag. It would be better for everyone.
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I am not a fan of hard tunneling either. But it's a nuanced problem.
If you get group of casuals with off-meta builds, the hard tunnel from the start practically guarantees a 3 or 4k if the killer gets the kill before a couple of gens are done. The remaining survivors are just playing for hatch in that scenrio and it sucks. If we could reduce this type of hard tunneling that would be great.
But we can't just have a blanket mechanic to take the tool out of the killer's hands because that is not the only type of games that happen in DbD, even if they are the majority.
Sometimes you get those lobbies where it is a SWF on comms or a group of seasoned solos with great game sense who do bring the meta, are good loopers and split up on gens. In that sort of game, especially with some of the weaker killers on the roster, not being able to hard tunnel means they might just lose, straight up. Remember they can't hold a 3gen forever anymore.
So there really isn't an easy solution to this problem.
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I own him and haven't played him a single time in the last 2 years.