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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109252#Comment_4109252
But we have no way to prove it works if people are just disabling it and the ques are not split so we can get the data on how it actually effect the average match.
Usage stat is not useful if people turn it off day one and never engage with it, that shows nothing but unwillingness to engage with the system at all.
At least if ques where split, devs could see clearly in the data where improvements, if any where made in comm wheel lobbies.
I can give reasons to your question but that question does not take away from points raised in this form, but to be clear not here to argue weather it would work as stated it defiantly wont work if we dont give it a chance too just want to answer your question.
"going for unhook" is a really good callout because alot of times in solo 2 people will be going to save assuming the other person is afk or they may be sitting right next to hook on gen making progess as someone just sits on hook but someone runs from other side of map not realizing because HUD does not show that nuance.
"repair" can be used on hook when team mates may be all bundling to try and save you, showing you care more about gen progress over being saved quickly, I would prefer it say "focus on gen repairs" tho as its more clear what is wanting to be done like it was worded in dbd mobile.
"chasing me" are good for stealth killers, a wraith running after you cloaked does not trigger the HUD chase, would also like to see "killer is looking for new target" like they had in dbd mobile
Ones like healing do need to be adjusted to something like "focus on healing" as healing we know when people are doing that.
Again not here to argue if it WILL do that, because we wont know if people have it disabled right of bat and are put with people who do want to be testing limits of the system.Yawn. We're going in circles.
Until it's tested and proven feature it needs to have a simple toggle. That cannot be denied logically.
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@cammoking123 said:
Lobby dodging is not what's creating 30 minutes ques. People need to stop trying to point the finger and just admit the game has a serious shortage of players. This is what happens when you let content creators with terrible takes do the balancing.
DbD is still riding high from its greatest player peak ever from the Jason release. There is no shortage of players so something else has to explain the queue times.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109164#Comment_4109164
How would you change tunneling without wrecking the game?
Focus on DS as a solution, rather than Endurance. DS works as a deterrent if the stun is long enough, meaning it needs to go back to 5 seconds or higher. Since DS requires the killer's input to function, it cannot be 'used offensively', since trying to bodyblock with it will result in the survivor becoming incapacitated, which hinders them more than the killer.
Then check if the killrates actually drop below target rates, because we have no way of knowing if they will or not.
If they do, first change on the docket is to invert the co-op repair speed penalty and make gens slower when solo'd and faster when there's at least three survivors on one gen. This makes it so that the safest way of doing gens (Split up) is not also the fastest way, leaving survivors the choice of either playing it fast or safe, not both at the same time.
This would also increase the pressure killers get out of incapacitations, since the survivor is worth more than just their own repair speed; they can't give a co-op bonus if they're not on a gen.
If that's not enough, we can cross that bridge when we get to it.
No. We already dealt with weaponized DS in the past we don't need to revisit that. Good survivors know how to force grabs at lockers and windows so they get DS value. DS is in a perfectly fine place already.
Average kill rates are already below the 60% target so we don't need to buff genrushing with co-op speed bonuses. If BHVR took your ludicrous suggestion of inverting co-op repair speed penalties 3 survivors would be able to pound out a gen from zero to done in under 24 seconds instead of the ~43s we have now. And that would be basekit without survivors bringing single gen perk or toolbox. Killers would have to run full regression builds and slug and/or tunnel at 5 gens just to have a chance at winning. What an absolute nightmare that would be.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109193#Comment_4109193
As I have said multiple times, allowing a toggle option will defeat the purpose of having it in the first place. Why even add this system if they're going to allow people to opt out of it? I haven't seen an answer to that question either.
And as Random said, this could cause even more friction between players, particularly those who have the system enabled and those who don't. And we already have more than enough friction between players as it is.
@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109113#Comment_4109113
This is where ill disagree people should not be able to just turn it off in a setting hidden away in setting menu if they are gonna be put in my ques.
I find it curious that you are concerned about making people who want the comm wheeel off aggravated, But when its the comm wheel people being agravated by the non comm wheel people its ok?
This is why people want a middle ground and current system we got teased is too far in favour of people who dont want to engage with the system, letting them never have too with one click of a button forever.
If you dont like that middle ground lets go back to splitting ques idea as both sides would be non aggravated by the other.
Because the system is still unproven to be actually useful, not annoying and not abusable. Until that happens it should have a simple toggle.
SoloQ is bad enough as it is, we don't need to be annoyed by an as yet unproven system or having to do multiple actions to disable it at the start of every match. If after a period of at least 3 months the system has proven itself to be useful, unobtrusive and not abuseable then they can remove the toggle option.
Thankfully, BHVR appears to have already put the toggle in place as they'd rather have people playing DbD with it on or off rather than having players choose not to play survivor because they can't turn off a feature they don't like.
Also, usage stats are useful. It's a very easy way to directly measure if it is good or not.
Until there's a real answer to:
What do you see in what's been shared about this feature that is so good that it should be mandatory for players to use it?
There needs to be a toggle."A toggle defeats its purpose" is not enough.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109136#Comment_4109136
The only reason the items are shown to the killer is so the killer can adapt their build. A major, major advantage and an unfair one at that.
How is it unfair? The killer is outnumbered and should be able to adapt if they see 4 toolboxes, 4 flashlights or whatever.
But I'd be fine with the lobby being done away with altogether and going straight into matches without wasting up to a minute of our time before every match, but I am not high MMR and I don't change my build for anything on either side in the lobby.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109177#Comment_4109177
We have yet to see if it's actually good.
Which is exactly why we shouldn't allow a toggle. If everyone turns it off at the start, how are we going to know how good it is?
This feature will probably be on by default and if it's actually good people will use it or at least leave it on. If it isn't good or they just don't like it, they can turn it off without it being a hassle every game. What's the problem?
Again: What do you see in what's been shared about this feature that is so good that it should be mandatory for players to use it?
I've asked this question 3 times in this thread now and no one has even tried to answer it. It's all just "It ShOuLd Be MaNdAtOrY!" *foot stamping*
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Honestly? Why not?
These are all temporary game modifiers, so why not try crazy stuff?
Since the introduction of modifiers we have only gotten 4 different types outside of events. My Little Oni was the first one never to be repeated, Lights Out, Chaos Shuffle and 2v8. Why haven't they tried more things.
They could do "test" modifiers and put them up for a week and if they flop, whatever it's only a week and they never have to bring them back. If they're accepted or well-liked they could be extended and brought back.
I don't know why BHVR doesn't do this other than them running DbD on a what seems to be a skeleton dev team. They're never going to do this and will leave it to modders.
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@Angy_Quentin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109113#Comment_4109113
It's the only way forward for soloq. It should be a mandatory part of the game that should take effort to deactivate. Give me a reason why you should not want that information.
What do you see in what's been shared about this feature that is so good that it should be mandatory for players to use it?
We have yet to see if it's actually good. Looking at the options we have for the wheel it looks like the only use for it that isn't already done by the HUD will be signaling intent to go for a hook save or maybe spamming Help! when chasing a fellow survivor who never looks behind them for a heal/to heal them (I'd rather be able to throw a snowball). This feature doesn't come close to what voice comms can do where it's "I'm looping the killer at shack, I dropped shack pallet, she has 3 hatchets left."
Until the feature is proven to be a reasonable improvement over gameplay without it and not abuseable through months of testing on live servers it should have a single toggle. Just like how they changed the wiggle mechanic which was in beta for IIRC a year before they took away the option to use the old wiggle system, even though the old wiggle was a clear disadvantage as it always took longer to wiggle off due to not having skill checks.
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@TicTac said:
Its depends. For everyone the optimal length of a trial is subjective. I dont want 5min rounds, but everything over 15min can also be annoying. But everything depends on the different stages of the trial.
A normal long match is better than 4 fast gens + 15min trying to break a 3gen. Or in most trials the endgame should be short, but a long endgame can be fun if the match was short.
But for the game speed in general: gen speed is not the problem (not counting some combos), its chase speed. As soon as a chase takes too long (without the killer making big mistakes or the survivor playing really good), there isnt enough slowdown. In talking about things like: closing the distance, forcing a drop and breaking safe pallets, etc.
Thats not a general problem, there are killer which can quick enough downs. It would be great if every map would be automatically balanced depending on the killer, the skill of the players and even depending on the perks. But thats pretty diificult. So the easier solution is to choose a killer which matches the skill of the survivors (i know how dropping mains feels), accept that good and bad maps hopefully even out and that you should bring your best perks if you want to win. And if you get survivor who cant keep up, you kinda need to find a fun way to deal with that (like going for 8 hooks).
This is a great post. As a serial SoloQ I know my internal chronometer starts ticking really loud once a match has gone on too long and I reach a point where I'd rather be dead and the rest of my team be damned than keep competing in a gone-stale match. Often these are games where killers prioritize gen defense rather than engaging in chases.
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109062#Comment_4109062
But keeping tunneling as it is is not the solution. This does not make the weak Killers any stronger and it does not make the strong Killers any less oppressive to go against.
Which is why there need to be changes to tunneling and slugging (which will not happen, Killer Mains made sure about that with mass hysteria) and Buffs to the weaker Killers. But general Buffs or Nerfs to mechanics will not help weak Killers in the slightest.
How would you change tunneling without wrecking the game?
We know by looking at comp matches that at that level tunneling is a very necessary mechanic in the game. Even in normal public matches if a group of 4 good survivors get a good map like Springwood against many killers it might be necessary for a killer to tunnel if they want to win. Anyone who's played killer any significant amount has been in a match where if they didn't tunnel at a certain point they were throwing the game.
Yes, hard tunneling at 5 gens is bad but how do you solve that problem without wrecking what is a necessary comeback mechanic for killers when 4 good survivors are still alive and only 1-2 gens are left?
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109069#Comment_4109069
The 2 seconds cool down reduction is not going to help ghostface, I want strong hook incentives personally for not tunneling/slugging like wesker having a third dash for 30 seconds and this make it more fun for both sides (but the strongest killers having a small buff and being punished for doing this or just nerfing them with good hook incentives).
Now I am pretty sure you dont read my posts, because I even said that weaker Killers need Buffs. Not that they already got Buffs and those are enough, lol. But you can also twist my words to get something as an argument for you I guess.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109069#Comment_4109069
Should I talk about survivor mains hysteria? Both sides have their complaints and the anti-tunneling and anti-slugging updates were too punishing and it was abused a lot by survivors, the second one in the Krasue patch was better but killers got nothing as the blood lust is literally useless so that's why killers hated it.
I have not seen the Devs scrap multiple things due to Survivor complaints. Unless you count something like the Twins Rework, but I think everybody can agree that this was absolutely horrible what they did. But Killers now have made it happen at least 4 times that Things on Survivor got nerfed either shortly after they went live or before they went live. This did not happen with things on the Killer side.
Reducing amount of pallets will definitely help, maybe making different killers have less or more pallets on the map depending on how strong they are.See, this is why I think you dont really read. As I said, this will NOT help at all. If we reduce the number of Pallets, what do you think will happen? Do you think people will suddenly play their Ghostface or Demo? Or the Blight and Ghoul they play anyway which are even stronger then?
Adjusting the Pallets depending on how strong a Killer is is also nonsense. First of all, who determines that? If you remember the Devs made ratings for Killers at some point in the past, with Billy being easy and Wraith being intermediate in difficulty… But even then, the really strong Killers play around Pallets and a bunch more garbage Pallets will not change that.
But as I said, general Buffs or Nerfs are not helpful. It needs to be specific Buffs and Nerfs to Killers. Otherwise it is not possible.
We have a massive roster of extremely varied killers of quite unbalanced strengths. Why is it so out of line in your opinion that maps should still generate the same way for all killers all the time?
I think it would be much easier to make it so a few less pallets spawn and a bit more distance generates between loops for killers like Trapper, Ghostface and Pig because they are always a slow 4.6 m/s or slower and have to actually kick every pallet with the 2.7 second animation. More pallets should spawn for killers like Billy and Blight who have great mobility AND the ability to break pallets as fast as a wood chipper. And I don't think it has to be drastically more or less pallets it could be as little as -3 for the D tier killers and +3 for S tier.
Rebalancing map generations based on the killer played is much more feasible than reworking killers. How do you buff Trapper, Ghostface and Pig without completely changing their identities?
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109131#Comment_4109131
You can already do that during the spin just hit tab and you can look at the perks while the spin is going.
Thanks for just responding to the title without reading the post.
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@Wyndsor said:
Killer lobby shopping is the first matchmaking issue that needs to be resolved.
Killers should not be able to see profiles, names, or cosmetics.
They should only be able to see a silhouette and the item.
Honestly I agree with this. But I think the ability for survivors to switch builds last second should be eliminated too.
But on the survivor side you think you should be able to see if the other survivors are using the chat wheel or not and be able to dodge based on that. Quite the double standard.
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@HexSlugged said:
i dont want perks showing in lobby, but i would like some point in time to have like 10 seconds to be able to view what perks are in play so im not having to take precious seconds at the start of the match to read perk descriptions. tho tbf i rarely care about other peoples perks.
I don't want them visible in the lobby either because it would lead to more lobby dodging and people would have a hard time getting David adepts done.
I know the spin at the start of the match isn't 10 seconds but it would give a chance to do a quick skim. I'd be looking for the perks that matter most like Deliverance, Background Player/Flashbang, We'll Make It, Head On, that sort of thing. The rest usually doesn't matter that much.
I don't take a good longer look at the perks until my first time on the hook, and that's only if I remember to. Spoiler: Usually I don't remember.
Edit. Damn it's already been moved to Feedback and Suggestions. May as well have not made the thread.
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At one point in 2023 I got severe killer anxiety and I had to change the way I played.
If I was trying to win and I was in a chase that was taking too long the anxiety would peak bad enough that I would have to stop playing mid-chase to calm down. I had bad hypertension at the time and might have been risking a stroke over a video game.
So now I go into my killer matches with a similar mindset that I go into survivor matches. I'm hoping to have some fun but the outcome of the match doesn't really matter to me. Games are just something to pass the time, winning isn't that important. Having fun is important.
If I am playing killer and I am in a chase where the survivor is taunting me, blinding me at every pallet or just looping me too well for too long I just leave the chase and look for better opportunities. Usually I'm playing Billy so the next survivor is just a chainsaw sprint away. If I am in a match where I am having a really rough go I'll just go for long chainsaw sprints or practice my power/farm deviousness if I am playing another killer. Once the last generator pops I'll open the gate and keeping practicing or go AFK until they leave, I don't give them the satisfaction and stack my own frustration by watching them teabag as I push them out. If I don't have the chatbox hidden (I usually don't) I click continue ASAP to get out of the post game screen to avoid crap in the chat.
I hope this helps.
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108791#Comment_4108791
I think I would honestly be ok with that compromise as well.
Remove the hard disable of the system, but keep the mute individual players after you have loaded into the game, sure some people will just mute everyone at start of every match but i think some people will come around to trying it.
vs just having a option tucked away in setting you click once and never have to bother with it again.@Angy_Quentin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108794#Comment_4108794
I think the individual mute option is a nice middle ground. It still requires proactive action every match to opt out.
It's not a nice middle ground if someone doesn't want to use a non-mandatory feature in a game they own they should be able to toggle it off once and be done with it instead of needing to toggle off 3 players at the start of every match. We don't need to aggravate that set of players at the start of every match as we know there are consequences to unnecessary aggravation in DbD.
I don't get this mindset of "Well you don't want to use the feature so we're going to punish you every game for it."
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My opinion on this has been the same on this for over 5 years now.
Until a real competitor arises. With the exception of Identity V which is just a mobile game that's been ported to PC and isn't sold on Steam, no game has cloned DbD's gameplay loop. Some competitors tied themselves to single franchises. Yes there are other asyms like VHS but they were very different from DbD.
I am still of the opinion that if someone, especially an AAA studio, cloned DbD's gameplay loop but did it with better code, better maps, better balancing, more frequent meta changes and better quality assurance they'd pull players from DbD. If it was good enough to retain those players it would be able to compete for licenses with DbD and maybe even pull licenses from DbD. Even if it didn't kill DbD (I doubt it would) just having competition would push BHVR to make DbD better at faster than glacial pace than we're currently getting.
But I've been waiting for so long that I am starting to resign myself that it might never happen and DbD is the best were going to get.
Without competition at least another 5 years, if not 10.
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While ping is a huge issue, there isn't anything BHVR can do besides add more servers and improve the net code. Unfortunately, they don't seem inclined to do that. They also can't tell the difference between someone with bad internet and someone manipulating their latency or VPNing. So it just is what it is.
I remember back when the game was peer to peer and we could see the killer's ping an I landed in a lobby as survivor where the killer had 1,700 ms ping. Dude had to be playing over a satellite connection or something. I stayed and played because I wanted to see what would happen. It was wild and I died.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109004#Comment_4109004
I am against going around saying that pwyw is bad because killer players are salty and use it to ruin survivor experience. That's just misleading and crossfires an argument into people who are just using it to play both roles as intended. I am not some pwyw defender, I just don't think people should reach and share the wrong conclusions antagonizes a group of people who just want to play the game.
"Aside from keeping players occupied while they are stuck in a queue, is there any other benefit to PWYW?"
You just answered yourself. pwyw was created to do exactly that, keep people busy as they wait their queue. It wasn't designed to do anything else more than that and neither it should.
"Do you have any logical reason to believe PWYW is having no effect on match quality or killer queue times?"
I just posted two times that all issues you pointed out pwyw was causing were things that already happened without the feature, and it wasn't anything new. Bad actors existed before pwyw was a thing, if anything, making the F2P for a limited amount of time allowed cheaters to go rabid. This is not a situation like that, its just a simple feature that lets someone who enjoys both roles play them seamlessly.
So you can't actually come up with any logical reason as to why PWYW wouldn't have an effect on match quality or queue times. 👋
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108992#Comment_4108992
"I disagree. I believe both match quality and killer queue times are affected by this and I have presented evidence as to why."
Your "evidence" is just pointing out things that happened way before the pwyw feature. It has no real correlation other than you pointing out possible bad actors who could be killer players because 'trust me bro'.
"Yes, this stuff happened before but it was very rare and now it's more often because someone who is a killer main who wants to kill 7 minutes until their killer queue time is up is less likely to take the survivor match as seriously as they should."
Rare? If it really were rare, the devs themselves wouldn't have to address the go-next problems by removing the option to die on hook. I don't know what to say other than don't think pwyw will bring about killer boogieman to ruin your matches disguised as survivors.
Okay. I get it. You like the PWYW feature. But that doesn't mean it's a good feature.
You've posted several times in this thread railing against people who are saying PWYW might be having negative effects but you haven't posted any valid defense of PWYW. Are you sure you're not arguing in bad faith?
Aside from keeping players occupied while they are stuck in a queue, is there any other benefit to PWYW?
Do you have any logical reason to believe PWYW is having no effect on match quality or killer queue times?
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My favorite charms are no charms at all, especially on survivor. They make you easier to spot and is just more crap for the game to render.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108948#Comment_4108948
"I think the benefits of PWYW are questionable at best because completing matches quickly without escaping or helping your team is incentivized by "Complete Trials" quests and having a queue time of <10 minutes (worse if it's even shorter) also happen. […] So if you have a selfish player who doesn't care about anyone else's enjoyment of the match who decides to bring Slipp
ery Meat or a luck offering and/or let the killer catch them without much resistance it's already bad for the match."That has nothing to do with the pwyw feature, neither is it being enhanced by it. This sort of thing happened WAY before the system was ever in place. Its why the option to unhook the first state for free was removed to begin with, survivors using any means to throw away the match has been happening for years now and has nothing to do with the pwyw.
I disagree. I believe both match quality and killer queue times are affected by this and I have presented evidence as to why. Yes, this stuff happened before but it was very rare and now it's more often because someone who is a killer main who wants to kill 7 minutes until their killer queue time is up is less likely to take the survivor match as seriously as they should.
You haven't said anything to prove why it wouldn't have an effect.
Whatever. You're clearly close-minded on this topic and think PWYW is an innocent little angel so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108725#Comment_4108725
Its bad faith because what you're saying is deceptive and pushing the narrative that killer players are damaging the survivor experience even though there's absolutely no proof of this other than saying that matches felt worse after the pwyw feature came around. Just because some salty people post on this forum, that doesn't mean a majority of players are going to put on the sheep's clothing and try to ruin survivor experience as survivor.
And forgive me to not adding more context, I was specifically talking about killer duos in 2v8 since the mode is currently live and I forgot to mention it. There's no better comparison I can add to the team related problems on the killer side.If there's one thing I have seen in DbD, it's that if something is possible in DbD it happens in DbD. And if it is incentivized it happens a LOT.
I think the benefits of PWYW are questionable at best because completing matches quickly without escaping or helping your team is incentivized by "Complete Trials" quests and having a queue time of <10 minutes (worse if it's even shorter) also happen. Those are 2 incentives for a player to want a quick survivor match of DbD where they may decide to throw. So if you have a selfish player who doesn't care about anyone else's enjoyment of the match who decides to bring Slippery Meat or a luck offering and/or let the killer catch them without much resistance it's already bad for the match. It gets worse when malicious players do even worse things and we know malicious players exist in DbD, especially if their last killer match was them getting their behind handed to them by a SWF that they couldn't dodge because queue times are so long. It's not like there's any real punishment for this sort of thing.
Honestly I like the idea of the PWYW feature but the way it's currently implemented I can see how it makes matches worse and killer queue times longer at the same time.
But go ahead and call my argument bad faith too.
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Lightborn is fine because:
- The blinding animation on the killer side is still annoying and should be avoidable.
- Lightborn allows killers to hook more often in scenarios where they're forced to slug when 2 survivors are hovering.
- If a killer loads into a lobby of 3-4 flashlights, Lightborn gives them an option in addition to playing without it or dodging and in my opinion anything that reduces dodging is a good thing.
- Bringing a flashlight shouldn't guarantee the survivor the opportunity to blind the killer.
- If the killer brings Lightborn survivors are not held hostage, they can still play the match out. Go do a gen or choose death, you still have a choice.
- Survivors can bring 1 or no flashlights and bring the Flashbang perk for a better chance at the killer not bringing Lightborn. They can search chests and bring offerings to increase chests to find flashlights in the match.
- Survivors can still switch to flashlights last second in the lobby.
When Background Player dropped and used to be +200% haste I ran Lightborn every game for about 3 years. Now Forever Entwined takes its slot.
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As the game is designed now with all the killers having a chance to go to every map in the game, then the answer is a very firm YES pallets should matter always.
If they decide to make pallets not matter against a killer then that killer should have maps designed/altered around them or at least have only certain maps for them and their power.
If BHVR ever actually does do away with the map offerings (or make them ban maps instead) as they should they could move toward curated map lists for every killer and that actually has the potential to be awesome. It could vastly improve DbD.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108916#Comment_4108916
Yeah I thought the same thing, I don't play a ton of Huntress but when I do, I don't reload between every single chase, it's a time waste. A lot of the time I'll go into a second chase with 4 hatchets or so, and the problem I was eluding to wasn't reloading mid chase, but that if you run out of hatchets, you often have to drop chase entirely to reload and look for someone else. Maybe being 4.6 would make that a bit less of an issue, or perhaps at least being 4.6 when out of hatchets (basekit Soldier's Puttee)
I could get behind Soldier's Putee becoming basekit if she gave off a clear tell when she ran out of hatchets, like an audible sigh. Without such a tell they could still make Soldier's Putee a brown or yellow addon and give her a new actually strong Iridescent addon.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108744#Comment_4108744
I think killers should get basekit bonuses for 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th hooks that is in a separate category so they could go above the 40k cap, up to 50k. It would be a way to incentivize the killer to make the match "sporting" for the Entity and would lead to survivors getting more points in those matches too which would make it a win-win.
I mean, you hopefully mean as long as all 4 Survivors are alive, do you?
Because otherwise it would just be a free Bonus for Killer, since they would just tunnel someone out and then basically maximize their own BPs because they cannot lose at this point.
Of course. I omitted the most important part. 😅
Edited it to fix.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108812#Comment_4108812
I think a much better comparison would be Huntress and Jason. While Springtrap does have a projectile in the shape of an axe, the similarities end there. His axe has a unique arc, making him only effective within 16m or so, which can be a real limitation when a survivor has distance, but the advantage is the arc allows for shots only he can do. His axe also has the AOE effect when missed, which gives killer instinct and can have effects applied to it. On the other hand, Jason's spikes are literally just Huntress hatchets with a different reload method and a slightly smaller hitbox, I believe they even go the same speed. The smaller hitbox can make it easier to miss, but allows for a lot of shots Huntress can't hit, and his reload method means that he can usually reload mid chase a couple of times and never really has to abandon a chase to go to a locker like Huntress.
If I was going to suggest buffs, as of now for some reason Jason is essentially a 4.6 ranged killer because the haste out of power lasts almost half a minute at a time for some reason. I say get rid of that or nerf it and make Huntress 4.6. It might be too oppressive in chase, I'm not sure, but some killers like Clown and Huntress have all their eggs in the chase basket and they should be strong enough to get fast downs. In addition, if Jason is going to be able to have some of the best map traversal in the game along with info and invisibility, Huntress should absolutely be stronger than him in chase. Another change I'd suggest but might screw some Huntress players up for a while is changing the hatchet hitbox to be like a flat circle (to mimic the spinning hatchet) rather than a sphere. This could screw some Huntress players up for a while, and it would make the killer harder, but it would also make certain shots possible that weren't before. In addition, I think you could reduce her lullaby radius slightly to give survivors less of a heads up that she's coming.
These are just some things that come up off the top of my head.
Great post. I could get behind Hag and Huntress being 4.6 m/s, at least when they are not in chase.
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108825#Comment_4108825
Just wanna add my 2 cents really quick...
Generally Huntress isn't reloading mid chase. At base, she has 7 hatchets that she reloads before starting a chase. Thats the advantage she has over Jason. Jason has plenty of stuff going for him, but the reload mid chase isn't it.
How much Huntress do you play?
I find when I play her I don't need to reload after every single chase because often I have 4-5 hatchets after a successful chase and don't want to waste time reloading. Usually I am successful in my next chase with a less than full magazine. The few times I am not I generally am not reloading mid-chase, the reload usually ends the chase and I look for better opportunities.
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I do wish that spreading hooks was incentivized like old BBQ did, but I don't see BHVR ever going back to perks giving bonus BP. I still miss old Distressing which helped me max out Deviousness faster.
I think killers should get basekit bonuses for 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th hooks before getting a kill that is in a separate category so they could go above the 40k cap, up to 50k. It would be a way to incentivize the killer to make the match "sporting" for the Entity and would lead to survivors getting more points in those matches too which would make it a win-win.
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Huntress is still a popular killer with a decent kill rate. She doesn't need a rework. Part of her appeal is because she is simple. She throws hatchets.
With the rework Myers got I don't want BHVR touching already popular killers as they are more likely to ruin them than improve them.
They can meddle with Hag, Krasue, Skull Merchant or Houndmaster, because maybe 5 people would be mad if they ruin one of those characters.
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@random1543 said:
Personally I think lobby-dodging is the most selfish act a player can do. You're ruining matches before they even start.
Lobby dodging is terrible, But disabling a whole system and just refusing to use it at all right off the bat I also think is pretty selfish when system is being implemented to help soloq.
a split que would make both sides happy and really has no downsides, potinetly slightly longer survivor que for the least popular toggle is better then players being even more frustrated with team mates / matchmaking then they are now. if comm wheel is the least popular toggle ill happily eat a slightly longer survivor que.
People can have opinions of if a comm wheel will work or not. but it definitely wont work if people have it disabled day one and are being lobbied with people who are wanting to use it. The system needs a chance to work.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108506#Comment_4108506
There must be some downside to splitting the queues otherwise we'd see it happen more often than we do now, which is only for events. I think it would make queue times and matchmaking worse and both are already in a bad place. Knowing what I know now, this whole chat wheel looks like a giant nothing-burger and not the game-changer some think it is. Since it is not going to greatly affect the game there is no point in splitting queues, which would make matches worse for everyone.
They're not going to split queues for this. I'd love see a "poor sport" queue for flagrant DCers & AFKers but we'll never get that either.
I think it's a good test of the feature to see what happens. If it does provide a big advantage and isn't abusable/spammable most players should leave it on and use it. If it provides little/no advantage and/or it's abusable/spammable then more will toggle it off. Also there will be data on how it's used and on lobbies that all/none/mixed use it. This can inform BHVR on how to improve it.
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This one you have pictured is pretty weak as on the left it's just a tight grouping of trees.
For the most part I think they're pretty balanced.
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@Wyndsor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108459#Comment_4108459
If winning is your priority you will put team communication over personal feelings.
Denying your team vital communication preemptively is selfish full stop and I think these players should definitely be marked in pre-game lobby as I'd definitely not want to play with them.
Muting someone who's being abusive in game is completely different and valid though.
Okay I finally read the pinned thread about this chat wheel feature and it doesn't appear like it's going to be that useful of a feature as we already have HUD icons for most of the stuff that appears will be on the wheel. The only useful msgs I even see are split up and something indicating you're going for the unhook or not. It's not like survivors will be able to say "I am at (clock number) and the killer is near me but I am not being chased" like people on Discord can. If you can see more useful stuff there please enlighten me.
They've also said we'll be able to mute players individually so that's great.
But I seriously doubt they'll be giving separate queues for wheel users and non-users or giving us the ability to see if fellow players in the lobby are uses/non-users. We can't see ping, perks or prestige, why would we be able to see whether or not they're using this feature? Someone could keep the feature on and mute the other 3 survivors as a workaround anyway. We've already got too much dodging happening already so why would they add something that would lead to more dodging?
Personally I think lobby-dodging is the most selfish act a player can do. You're ruining matches before they even start.
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I think having this feature toggleable is correct and no I don't think there should be separate queues for people who use it and people who don't. Especially to start with. People are already making broad assumptions about people who use or don't use this feature and it's not even in the game yet. Let's give it a few months and get some real data and experience with it in DbD before making drastic changes.
I hope this feature is toggleable in a match because I am pretty sure that there are going to be some trolls that'll abuse it if they can. Perhaps the ability to mute certain players would be good so players wouldn't have to toggle the whole feature off entirely. Maybe it'll have a cooldown and won't be so abusable, I'll find out when it comes to the game.
@Wyndsor said:
The people who turn it off weren't interested in being good teammates anyways.
Nothing changes for them.
I think this is a very over-broad assumption. There are thousands of players with thousands of hours of experience and the game sense that goes along with that. But some new and as yet untested feature comes along that some of these players may choose to toggle off and you'd brand them a bad teammate.
Someone who knows what to do and gets it done is going to be far more valuable than someone over-using the chat wheel.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108409#Comment_4108409
Pips are from the old system of judging a win. It mattered way more back then and is probably a habit by now since I played back then
It was changed at one point to Kills and Escape with that wild hockey analogy of "in hockey you don't judge a score by the attempt, but by when you shoot it in(paraphrased)"
Imho it felt less toxic back then because a win in iri rank required you to hit gens, win a lot of chases, and not just swoop killing all the survivors.
I agree I've been playing since that far back myself. SBMM was introduced in September 2021 and before that point (especially before 6.1.0) I used to be able to play DbD for hours on end, day after day. I guess I am more patient than I thought as I have been waiting for BHVR to add fun back to DbD since then.
I think the game and the attitude of its community would be improved if DbD just told players they won rather than being ambiguous about it. IMO, just giving killers an identical "You Won!" screen instead of the Ruthless/Merciless Killer screens would lead to a decent improvement in match quality thanks to a reduction in slugging for the 4K.
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@Balrog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108084#Comment_4108084
This is how I measure my wins as well. If I played well, but didn't pip, I put that one solidly in my loss category.
Interesting.
If pipping is the measure of winning than everyone can win in a match of DbD.
I doubt most players think that way especially with the lack of emphasis on pipping on the post-game screen. It's not on the first or last page so it's easily missed or skipped over. Also, most casual players who don't make it to iridescent ranks every month won't care about pipping.
Grade is just a measure used to get a reward every 13th and has no effect on MMR so why would most players use it as a measure for winning.
I'd love to see DbD tell players they won more, especially killers who get a 3K, so we'd see less slugging for the 4K.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108001#Comment_4108001
That's in the 100 million before the prestige update. 38 million over 4 years is 792,000 a month. You saying that's too much to handle? You can get that without playing a single match, just login every Tuesday.
What are you on about? I am talking about the new players who just joined as I said in my first post in this thread. For those players they pretty much have the same ability to grind but have an additional 38 million to grind. I'm not talking about me or anyone who has been playing the game for years.
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BHVR has purposefully left the post-match screen ambiguous so players have to decide for themselves what winning is.
Unfortunately that leads to some killers thinking that a 3K is not a win which leads to misery when they slug for the 4K.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108032#Comment_4108032
Remember to run Balatro on your third monitor just in case you need to macro on WoW
I prefer to keep this forum up on my third monitor so I can monitor and contribute to the whining. :P
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108016#Comment_4108016
I understand your point.
But at this Point you could ask yourself why BPs exist at all if its not for the random clutter and the chance to get something useful.
If only good Item/Addons remain than BHVR could hand out some after each match you played. Making all the Bloodweb useless.
Bloodpoints do still serve a purpose, there has to be something to grind in DbD.
After thinking on this more I don't want nothing but good stuff in the bloodwebs and I don't think that is possible, I just don't want 90% of it to be straight trash. Maybe if they could cut it to 75% it wouldn't be so bad. I don't think it's even possible to get the bloodwebs to be less than 50% trash as half of all the items and addons are garbage along with some weaker offerings that can't/shouldn't be deleted. But they could slightly improve the bloodweb trash situation.
If they got rid of map offerings, luck offerings, wreaths and flowers that would be a reasonable enough improvement.
This would lead to players getting more Bloody Party Streamers, Escape! Cakes and Survivor Puddings so the grind wouldn't be as bad. If that's all that changed I don't think they'd even have to raise prices or make bloodwebs smaller.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
Problem is, that we still need not so good stuff in the Bloodweb. If we remove all bad stuff we can just give out purple Medkits, Party Streamers and fat toolboxes for free. Likewise on the other side why have "nerfing yourself" addons when you could just get the best ones all the time.
If BHVR removes the "clutter" from the blood web the good stuff would inflate the game to a really not so healthy spot.
They could remove a lot of garbage, make bloodwebs smaller and the remaining stuff more expensive. I'd be in favor of that because currently I feel that >90% of my bloodpoints are completely wasted on crap I will never use.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
If you’re getting slugged and left on the ground for a long time, that’s a problem with your teammates, not the killer. Teammates can see your aura to come pick you up just like they see you on hook to come rescue you when you get hooked. Why are your teammates not coming to pick you up?? And getting slugged is way better than getting hooked because you don’t get a hook state to get you closer to elimination. This is why I am so confused about all the outrage about slugging. You should be glad that the killer is not hooking you! I always say that people who complain about slugging should try playing some killer matches, never hook anyone, and see how many matches you win.
The OP talks about grinding, well what are they grinding? They are most likely grinding bloodpoints, quests or tome challenges, not wins or MMR gains.
When a killer picks you up and carries you to a hook you can gain a lot of bloodpoints in the Survival category for struggling on the shoulder and also unhooking also scores a lot of bloodpoints for your rescuer, both get denied by slugging.
So if a killer is refusing to hook and going for a 4 man slug to win they are denying survivors a lot of bloodpoints and quest progress because they can't do anything while slugged. And if you're playing SoloQ you never know if you're going to get picked up or how long it'll take.
But yeah we should be glad the killer isn't hooking us.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4107856#Comment_4107856
But it hasn't. Without knowing how long you have played, you don't understand what grind is. Even going back to when I started playing, the grind was reduced significantly.
When BHVR reworked the prestige system, they removed one of the worst exponentially inceasing grinds in gaming. Right now with constant events, rift challenges, and 250k bonus every week, it is fine.
Could it be better? Better to what degree? Maybe they make it so everything is unlocked after playing one match. Could it be better? Why yes it could. They could just give you everything upfront. Why even need bp? Unlimited everything! No more grind. You can just enjoy the game. Damn I'm bored, going to play something else.
What has changed for the better in the last 4 years? I know we got the 250k per week since then but that's been around for a long time already. What else?
They've added 35 characters since then which adds about 38 million BP to the grind.
"But it hasn't." #### off out of here if you can't prove it or make a suggestion that could improve the situation.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4107754#Comment_4107754
The mountain will always look impossible from its base. A new player today can make it to where I stand in half the time it took me.
The grind has only gotten worse over the last 4 years with nothing done to mitigate it and your response is:
Perhaps my suggestion of P1 free on every character someone owns is too much but they should do something, anything to mitigate the grind.
To start with they could retire all the wreaths, flowers, the Sealed Envelope and the Hollow Shell.
Escape! Cake and Survivor Pudding should be brown offerings. A personal +100% offering should always be an option in 2026 DbD.
Make Blood Party Streamers purple offerings, just to get them out of the blue rarity which is clogged up by all the map offerings, which would make them appear in bloodwebs more and I think would look cooler in purple.
Make the Bound Envelope yellow rarity, +50% (up from 25%) and affect all players not just survivors.
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I am long past the grind now as I have been playing for years, but I really don't envy new players now.
Imagine a player who joined DbD just after the anniversary and looking at the massive roster of characters and perks they have to earn. They're looking at several million BP to grind just to have a decent selection of perks and they're looking at less that 100k per game.
I know they lowered prices in the bloodwebs and at least made it so prestiging doesn't lose your perks and items anymore, but that was 4 years ago now. Since then they've added 32+ characters and 96+ perks to the game so there is a sheer volume of BP grind that should be mitigated.
I think that people should get P1 straight up for free on any character they own at this point. Then they can spend a mil or 2 on their main and have all the perks they own at level 3 and not have such a torturous grind just to use perks they have already paid for with real money.
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I don't play much anymore. It's just stale and unfun for me.
I suppose I should play some just to complete this summer event now that all the quests are available.
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With only 4 classes for survivor I am surprised they're aren't more complaints about it being stale.
They should add a Head On class.
Maybe they could do something with totems.
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Oni in 1v4 is fine because he is balanced by the fact that he only gets orbs from injuries he caused, addons he brings and whenever he gets a down in blood fury he has to choose to either slug or pick up and end his power. He often has to waste a lot of time carrying survivors to hooks.
In 2v8 afaik none of that is true. In all the games I've played vs Oni in 2v8 it always seemed like he could use blood fury to get 2-4 downs and have his partner do most of the caging with Oni maybe doing some caging when his power ended or was close to ending. Then Oni could spend mere seconds collecting more blood orbs and RAWR!-off he'd go again.
So his power should not work as easily as it does in 1v4, since every killer-teammate knows and is happy to follow his carnage and cage his slugs for him, while occasionally M1ing survivors to help him with the orbs or bodyblocking survivors so Oni can oneshot them.
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A genius solution? This isn't even a meh solution.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
It was a bug that was never fixed. You can still change the pfp by typing in the address for it manually or if someone else has a link to it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/profile/picture
Thank you. I thought I was doomed!
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Realistically? Decades.
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@ArtGueds said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4106369#Comment_4106369
I'm sorry for not speaking eloquent english with you, sir. I will be honest when I say I do not give a ######### about writing correct grammar, I am lightly speaking in a forum and making fun of a braindead person (you), and so this is not my priority. But seeing the way one treats the importance of the grammatical norms of the english language despite being able to understand what I said regardless, I will now make sure l speak with the utmost form just for you! Language which is not even my first one.
I will explain in an easier manner for a monkey like you, making it more understandable for low IQ, butthurt grown ass dudes such as yourself, what is conflicting in your text since you apparently can't comprehend what I previously wrote, sir."You also say it only benefits killers, but I disagree. As a survivor on the ground, it is nice to know that the misery has to end eventually."
The moment you say "the misery," you agree that the slugging phase is horrible, especially knowing that the killer doesn't plan on hooking you and will just leave you on the ground. When you say that this is a miserable scenario, it is only natural to assume that leaving or avoiding this scenario is the main priority.
Now let's be logical. Should we buff survivors on the ground to make it so they don't stay in that scenario, rework the slugging system, or make it easier to flee this horrible scenario (abandon)? I think the first option is not good, considering survivors already have a competitive edge in most scenarios, so let's go with the second or third one. How about that, little primate?
Now let's connect that with the slug timer situation. Logically, the slug timer being used for escaping this miserable scenario is more of a band-aid solution than the abandon system itself!
"How?" the little monkey may ask.
Well, having a player leave the match entirely, forcing the team into a 3v1, while having the most uninteractive four minutes of his life in any video game ever, and having the killer be rewarded for not interacting with the main objectives in the game because the scenario was "misery," is objectively worse than having a bot on the ground ready to be saved and having the game go on.
A bot will be 99% of the time better than nothing at all. Why a bot? Well, if you don't want to wait on the ground for a long time and have already been on the ground for a while, you will have the option to abandon, leaving a bot in your place. This is partially implemented already, because when you get downed plenty of times, you have the option to leave the match. So, slightly changing that to make it a timer is not hard at all.
And so, the "infinite slug timer" isn't an issue anymore. Look at that.
The fact that the abandon system doesn't correctly affect MMR (which is another joke that shouldn't be taken seriously, considering how flawed it is regardless) is a problem that already exists, regardless of whether this is added or not. So, it is something that should be fixed and shouldn't get in the way of future additions to the abandon system.
All of this should already prove that the timer is not, as you said, "a mechanic a necessary mechanic" (????). Therefore, it is conflicting.
Now you may ask: "But wouldn't this be a nerf to killers since they can't slug the whole lobby for four minutes and win?" It might be, for those who focus on doing that. However, the developers in this game do not balance the game or the hooking system considering slugging as a genuine strategy. Proof of that is that they are actively working on making the slugging strategy less viable with almost every other update, with another one upcoming at the moment I am typing this. So, normal gameplay will still have the same balancing, with hook-focused gameplay.
"Without slug timers and without hatch, survivors could only wait to die! How can you be so obtuse as to not see that? Do you want your guaranteed 4K that badly?"
I do not currently play killer often, and when I do, I always give hatch to the last survivor, so I wouldn't want a 4K "that badly." But anyways, as I mentioned previously, the hatch system is something that needs changing, especially with 2v1 scenarios building up to the hatch. If the hatch isn't removed or reworked, the way that a survivor/survivors stay slugged could be situational, with a timer—with maybe even less time than 4 minutes—appearing to make sure the wait isn't long and to force an earlier hatch contest.
In any case, even if the hatch stays unchanged, you can still add the same abandon feature for when you are slugged and there is only one other survivor alive, so you still wouldn't be stuck in a match.
All of your "soft lock" scenarios are way better fixed with having the option to substitute youself with a bot than having your team lose a whole survivor because the killer wasn't loved as a child.
i wont talk to your ass anymore, i can tell you are a loser irl too lmao, whatever reponse you make here will not be read as i will probably not open this forum in a long time again until i get mad at another dumb existing mechanic
Thank you for using your return key in this post. That's all I wanted.
Yes, I did say "the misery." Being on the ground is misery, but being on the ground with no bleedout timer would be worse than what we have now. Exactly how do you propose to change the slug scenario? According to your OP it should be just being on the ground with no bleedout timer. Or something vague about abandoning. Well, what is your idea exactly? Replace the bleedout timer with an abandon timer? And how long should that abandon timer be?
Let's say you set the abandon timer at 2 minutes and let's say it takes a teammate 1.9 minutes to get over to the slug and slug wants to go next so they just hold shift (or whatever the run button is on controller) preventing the teammate from picking them up until the abandon option becomes available which they promptly use? If you make the abandon timer 60 seconds or less some players might just hold shift the entire timer and abandon, have you thought about that?
I wouldn't ask "But wouldn't this be a nerf to killers since they can't slug the whole lobby for four minutes and win?" because I think it would be a BUFF to killers. When you replace a human player with a bot it's advantageous for the killer unless it's a survivor who went AFK or is actively throwing. Many survivors would just leave the bot slugged forever just as many survivors already don't bother to unhook bots.
Your idea is clearly undercooked. You can't actually be specific about what you want, and you respond to reasonable criticism with ad hominem attacks.