What is winning?
So in DBD winning is usually defined by as killers killing all survivors and survivors escaping but the problem is lore wise and bp wise is that survivors and killers are still stuck in the entity realm and just straight out escaping and killing gives very little blood points.
When I play killer even if I get 0 kills but do a ton of other objectives I get around 75k-150k BP while death hooking all survivors, and when playing survivor even if I get sacraficed/moried yet I heal, chase, and do gens with other objectives I get a ton as well than just gen rushing/escaping.
Am I missing what the true definition is winning here or am I not? Like end of the day we are still trapped in the entities realm and get BP from a total of 4 categories.
Like I understand thats the "Goal of the role" but its not exactly as rewarding for that. Am I missing something here or am I onto something?
Comments
Winning is what the big content creators tell you it is /s
Honestly though it's probably the adept achievements which influence the current win conditions lol
Lorewise there is no winning because the trials are just a twisted way the entity generates emotions like hope, fear and anger with, on which he feasts. I guess you could say survivors win because they survive and the death at the end seems pretty painful, and killers win in the way that the entity is disappointed if you don't kill anyone so he must be pleased if you kill all.
Gameplaywise dbd never really had a set wincondition, of course you could say escaping or a 4k is a win, but I for my part prefer 3k + hatch. As survivor you could also say 3 escapes or more are a win. And it's true that the win itself doesn't get you anything, but honestly in which game is that really the case? In many games you just get more exp and that's on par with dbd where you just get slightly more bloodpoints. Even if you compare it to ranked games it's kinda true because you get indeed mmr-points, and they just care about killing or escaping right now which are considered winning mostly.
Winning means that the happy family, consisting of yennefer, geralt, ciri...and steve...gets to live another day. Thats a win.
BHVR has purposefully left the post-match screen ambiguous so players have to decide for themselves what winning is.
Unfortunately that leads to some killers thinking that a 3K is not a win which leads to misery when they slug for the 4K.
Winning is a pip. No matter how you succeed or fail in doing so.
This has always been the case but people like to complicate things to make themselves feel more important or better than other players.
This is how I measure my wins as well. If I played well, but didn't pip, I put that one solidly in my loss category.
Victory wise, winning is defined by the player as seen above.
Lore wise both sides are to feed the entity with emotions and are rewarded accordingly. Killing the survivors in a boring but practical manner doesn't generate as strong emotions as sparks of hope getting snuffed out in a brutal manner.
If you enjoy the match even if you die.
This is one of those evergreen topics that comes up every now and then.
Instead of having a win/loss binary (with draws thrown in sometimes) like other games, DbD gives you a series of different goals that you can evaluate however you want. Kills/escapes, escapes of other survivors, BP, pips - where you factor hatch into the whole equation. You can care about those as little or as much as you want.
As an example, I never look at the pip screen. It means nothing to me.
The design causes some problems, but it also allows for a greater range of 'meaning' to the game. Deathgarden (another, now defunct, BHVR game) was even more extreme in this design, but that game failed a few times and I think that was one of the key problems with the game (though it had many more).
I think winning at this point isn't just about escaping, but to have simply done your best (no matter experience). I have been playing this game few years and with time I think my definition of winning changed, in many ways. At first it was simply about leaving the trial, but with time I felt winning was simply when I did the best I could and have contributed to the team win. You may not have escaped, but was chased whole game and looped it well; You may not have escaped, but healed everyone, opened chests, blinded the killer… and that's ''helping towards the win''… so, at the end of the day, you are a winner too, no matter how the game went or how you felt (escaping😇or… simply having a good time, even though you've been tunneled all game- lived anxiety/rage-AFK players, external situations etc… ) and that's the only important in my opinion.✌️
Honestly I think this topic needs to be seen by more people. I have no idea where the idea of "I need a 4k" or "We need a 4 out" to win came from. the game has no official rankings and is too bizarre and unbalanced to be reasonably competitive, it feels like that is what leads to a ton of the toxicity in the game too.
I think the definition is kills. 1 or no kills is a survivor win, 2 kills is a draw, 3 or 4 kills is a killer win or another way to put it, if hatch spawns then it's a killer win
Very simple.
For killer:
0-1 kills: lose
2 kills: draw
3-4 kills: win
For survivors:
0-1 escape: lose (for the survivor playing that managed to escape its win however)
2 escape: draw
3-4 escape: win
Changes from person to person.
Most people I've seen tend to use the,
0-1k Loss
2k Draw
3-4 Win
Hatch is a win, draw or loss depending on who you ask. I consider it a draw.
Some survivors base it on if they escape, others base it on pips. Some people go off of BP and others base is on fun factor. It varies a lot.
As others said it's mostly by Kill for killer and escape by survivor.
For killer a Kill is what represents the change of the matches result screen.
And an escape is the only good result screen for survivor
But personally pip is my ruling of a win, because it's a marker of my over all skill and "not bad hockey analogy here"
Interesting.
If pipping is the measure of winning than everyone can win in a match of DbD.
I doubt most players think that way especially with the lack of emphasis on pipping on the post-game screen. It's not on the first or last page so it's easily missed or skipped over. Also, most casual players who don't make it to iridescent ranks every month won't care about pipping.
Grade is just a measure used to get a reward every 13th and has no effect on MMR so why would most players use it as a measure for winning.
I'd love to see DbD tell players they won more, especially killers who get a 3K, so we'd see less slugging for the 4K.
Pips are from the old system of judging a win. It mattered way more back then and is probably a habit by now since I played back then
It was changed at one point to Kills and Escape with that wild hockey analogy of "in hockey you don't judge a score by the attempt, but by when you shoot it in(paraphrased)"
Imho it felt less toxic back then because a win in iri rank required you to hit gens, win a lot of chases, and not just swoop killing all the survivors.
I agree I've been playing since that far back myself. SBMM was introduced in September 2021 and before that point (especially before 6.1.0) I used to be able to play DbD for hours on end, day after day. I guess I am more patient than I thought as I have been waiting for BHVR to add fun back to DbD since then.
I think the game and the attitude of its community would be improved if DbD just told players they won rather than being ambiguous about it. IMO, just giving killers an identical "You Won!" screen instead of the Ruthless/Merciless Killer screens would lead to a decent improvement in match quality thanks to a reduction in slugging for the 4K.
I can agree on that. Having too many stages is really. Ehh
Legit having three would be better
Loss draw and win. We don't really need a win harder one or "almost to draw"
When I have a fun match.
Though old system had serious issues if you did gens the game said you are bad because need to chase and altruism too, so survivors were punished playing well and basically you had to farm the killer for chase and altruism points