Firellius
Firellius
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- Firellius
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323512#Comment_3323512
I think the more important takeaway is that it emphasises how much effects can be stacked. Yeah, nobody's going to stack for 2s heals. But stacking a couple of those--a purple medkit, someone bringing CoH, maybe having We'll Make It--and suddenly you're healing at 3x normal speed.
That still requires that just the right people are getting unhooks. As someone who runs a healy-dealy build often, I can tell you that it's not nearly as reliable as it sounds. There's plenty of matches where injured survivors don't actually get a chance to heal, or don't find me for healing, despite using Empathic Connection.
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323128#Comment_3323128
Which is why my initial post covered literally both buffing non-tunneling/camping and nerfing tunneling/camping, but it seems like you either can't read or willingly refuse to read.
People that tunnel or camp because they don't care do it no matter what. They don't care if it's inefficient. They do it out of stupid reasons like trying to spite the other survivors.
The goal isn't to buff 12-hooking into viability, it's to make camping and tunneling not the best strategies.
"Opposed to taking the nerfbat directly to them" as I say that pre-endgame basekit BT should be literal invincibility instead and to remove hook grabs entirely so that survivors can at least always guaranteed trade rather than be grabbed off entirely. Please don't bother replying if you're going to blatantly ignore everything said that doesn't match what you want to read. It's a waste of everyone's time.
DS stun duration nerf was stupid. Reassurance nerf was also stupid.
Also, I don't know why you're ranting about topics that have literally nothing to do with the original thread. Go make one about tunneling/camping if you want to talk about it that much. This thread is about hatch incentivizing poor design. Whataboutism gets you nowhere.
The goal isn't to buff 12-hooking into viability, it's to make camping and tunneling not the best strategies.
Except:
People that tunnel or camp because they don't care do it no matter what.
So camping and tunnelling need to not just be 'not the best strategies', they need to be wholly incompetent. And you don't achieve that with a 15 second grace period or 'guaranteed trades'.
Also, I don't know why you're ranting about topics that have literally nothing to do with the original thread. Go make one about tunneling/camping if you want to talk about it that much. This thread is about hatch incentivizing poor design. Whataboutism gets you nowhere.
To remind you: You came up with the argument that lose/lose situations are fine if one side outskills the other too much, to which I replied that that argument has never flown for when killers are on the losing end, as evidenced by how tunnelling and camping are treated on the forums.
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@PowZapBamWoofMeow said:
Survivors get all the second chances including a 3rd health state.
What does killer get? Brutal Strength, Enduring, and the one where after 2 pallet stuns entity breaks next pallet (but still suffer the stun). Those don’t really help, let’s be honest.
Killer should get a perk that prevents a pallet stun. Then deactivates until next hook. Something like that.
Why do Survivors get all the second & third (Dead Hard) chances?
Killer has nothing like that.
Why do Survivors get all the second & third (Dead Hard) chances?
If you check the left side of the screen during the match, you'll notice that survivors are -supposed- to have three chances.
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322791#Comment_3322791
I wish I was as good as you at ignoring literally everything else except just what I want to read after blatant whataboutisms in an unrelated topic. Tunneling and camping are employed as strategies. The game should not be balanced around 12-hooking, because that's a target balance of a 100% guaranteed kill-rate. But tunneling and camping should not be the most incentivized strategies for killers to employ in the first place. Playing without tunneling and camping should be more desirable.
Also, I've already literally stated in that post that people that want to tunnel or camp regardless will do so no matter what no matter how many nerfs you give to those playstyles. Because those people don't care in the first place whether it's actually a good strategy or not. People that complain that they're not competent enough to 12-hook every game and expect the game to change for their sake are moronic and entitled.
Camping and tunneling are high risk options against better players, but difficult for less-experienced players to deal with. Which is literally why if you bothered reading what I said at all in that post, you'd realize that's why I enormously strengthened anti-camping and anti-tunneling measures, in return for buffing playing without camping or tunneling. Then if a killer wants to tunnel or camp regardless for some reason, it's much easier for survivors to deal with even at lower skill levels.
And what "simple changes" are you talking about that got axed? I'd like some proof.
Playing without tunneling and camping should be more desirable.
Yes, and you can achieve that by nerfing tunnelling and camping. Because aiming for the other way around means buffing killers out the wazoo. Currently, tunnelling (And to a lesser extent camping) are the most efficient tactics available. If you want to make 12-hooking more attractive, you'll have to make it easier, more consistent and more reliable than tunnelling and camping.
Also, I've already literally stated in that post that people that want to tunnel or camp regardless will do so no matter what no matter how many nerfs you give to those playstyles.
No. Because if a killer that hard tunnels has to chew through a variety of anti-tunnel measures and is basically guaranteed to prove himself a salty loser, that's probably going to massively diminish the prevalence of tunnelling.
Conversely, you can buff 12-hooking until it's 'more desirable', but that doesn't mean that people can't just knock out a quick 4K by still just tunnelling. You acknowledge that there's going to be people that will continue to tunnel and camp, but then you're opposed to taking the nerfbat directly to them, as if kindly asking them to stop is going to dissuade them from being major trolls.
you'd realize that's why I enormously strengthened anti-camping and anti-tunneling measures
All you suggested was to increase the duration of baseline BT! Which we already know doesn't work, because it's functionally barely distinct from what we have currently!
And what "simple changes" are you talking about that got axed? I'd like some proof.
DS got its stun duration cut by 40%, and Reassurance got a double nerf to its usability, restricting it to, literally, ONCE PER MATCH. Both of these perks were focused on specifically countering tunnelling and camping and both got -decimated- by the changes.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322718#Comment_3322718
BT is basically base though, I never used it before and now it's free with haste so it's kinda waste using the perk now, if everyone uses OTR (meta perk) you dont need BT and its void completely.
While you're right you cant use DH after being put in mend via OTR, that OTR lasts so long and gives you a free health state in that time you dont really need to use DH as well.
But if you use OTR, DS, DH none conflict with each other as when you go down to use DS your mending state is gone so all you need do is replace BT in the old meta with OTR and now you're even harder to tunnel than before so its actually a buff in that aspect of second chances.
I personally dont see the point in BT unless it's a comp game where you cant have repeat perks, but we cant use that because basic games dont follow that rule.
That's if you equip three perks though. And DS by itself was comparable before the 40% stun duration cut.
DS should never have had its stun cut. It was tailored for one specific instance and required a LOT of cooperation from the killer to make it work.
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Does literally anyone ever use Power Struggle?
Also, just don't walk under a pallet while carrying.
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I don't think it's a good idea to create new map design elements when the current map design is struggling a bit with playability.
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@Saiph said:
The grind was absolutely not worse before. That's what BHVR pretends, I don't know if they really believe that it's true or are just delusional.
In fact the update made it significantly worse:
- for new players, need to grind characters to lvl 50 to unlock their perks now, whereas before you needed only the teachable at lvl 30. Considering that the first 15 bloodweb levels are almost free, that's a 2x cost. Before you needed ~20 hours to get a basic build now you need ~40.
- huge nerf to BP offering drops now as you only get trash for the first 20-30 levels of the bloodweb, then you get some decent stuff and by the time you get maybe 1 bloody party then you have to prestige again. Same applies to items btw. It has become so bad that even long time players are running out of good items/addons while before most of us had 100+ of them. Now you see streamers run perks like residual manifest just to get a flashlight.
- As killer, the best and easiest perks are now mostly pay2win (Eruption, Deadlock and CoB specifically). BBQ does no longer give BPs. The BP incentives compensate partially for this but they depend on luck while BBQ was consistent and healthy for the game.
I think the big thing you're missing is the, what was it? 25% cost reduction to individual bloodweb nodes? A friend of mine recently got back in the game and she played Pinhead yesterday evening, and in not too many matches she'd managed to prestige him once. That immediately makes all his perks available on all killers, which is a huge improvement for how quickly she can put those perks into play. No longer do you need to go through 30+ additional bloodwebs, waiting for the right lvl1 perks to spawn in, they're just always there.
The grind improvement is the best thing about DBD's changes over the last year or so.
As for the topic's question: No, it is not a casual game at all. 6.1 raised the skill floor across the board. You need to know more, have more, and play better, on both sides.
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Team of survivors called me a pretty chill killer for playing for fun when they brought in double BPS and a Flan. We basically just all five hobbled around with one specific gen, with the survivors sneakily trying to complete it and me just adamantly defending it and only that one gen. I think I 2-hooked everyone and then they just finished their gens and left. It was a fun match!
I do also recall a David accusing me of tunnelling and his teammates correcting him, pointing out that I basically ignored him and refused to hook him on multiple occasions, which was nice too.
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322587#Comment_3322587
The way you make camping and tunneling go down is by buffing leaving the hook and buffing chasing someone that isn’t the unhooked survivor. Which I support. Doesn’t make this not whataboutism though.
People that do it just because they want to will do it no matter what and no amount of nerfs in the world will stop them.
People that do it because of strategy will do it less if leaving the hook and chasing someone who isn’t the unhooked survivor is more rewarding.
For example: Post-Unhook Endurance buffed to 15s but collision is removed so they cannot bodyblock for allies. If gens aren’t done, it is 15s of Invincibility instead. Deactivates under same conditions as Endurance would.
Hooking a survivor that isn’t the most recent unhooked gives a reward. For example, most progressed generator is damaged by X%, or all gens are damaged by a lower Y% or so.
Leaving 24m? or so radius of the hook gives a reward as long as you stay out if it unless you are chasing someone in those 24m. For example, basekit Ruin-like temporary effect to reward pushing survivors off other generators, or BBQ style aura to chase someone else.
Hook grabs are removed but all unhook speed bonus sources are removed and unhook becomes uncancellable. Attacking someone unhooking has a static unalterable cooldown. This way, camping can be a guaranteed trade but not preventing the unhook altogether, and means divebombing hook still requires a trade.
And obviously, slowdown perks/second chance perks/etc would be readjusted to fit/nerfed or changed as necessary.
It's always the solution offered by killer players: 'Just buff killers out the wazoo and we'll tunnel less!'
Except 6.1 proved that to not be the case.
But this is also part of what I mean with the whole 'that argument doesn't fly'. This whole idea that 12-hooking is too difficult doesn't take killer skill into account the same way that you're fine with forcing survivors to lose because 'the other side just played better'. Say they did everything you asked for, what's to stop you or any other killer from coming back here on the forums as soon as they get a 2K instead of a 4K, to complain about how they're feeling forced to tunnel, because even with gigantanormous buffs to killer, they're still not competent enough to 12-hook?
Not to mention that camping/tunnelling are currently low effort, high reward strategies, so leaving them untouched will keep them as viable options. Yes, you can never truly and completely solve those two, but you can at least make it so killers frustrate themselves more than their opponents with some really simple changes that have already been tried and proven effective. They just got axed because killers whinged about it.
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322578#Comment_3322578
Not necessarily. If one side is overwhelmingly dominating the others, of course the number of options available that aren’t accepting losing will drastically decrease. Killing 2 survivors before gens are done/Opening gate before anyone is dead is a one-sided beatdown. That doesn’t mean it’s an issue (outside of matchmaking/solo queue issues maybe). It means one side did a lot better than the other.
That argument never flies when people talk about getting camping and tunnelling nerfed, strangely.
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322562#Comment_3322562
Let me reword what I said earlier: Being in that situation means you already lost.
Hiding and doing nothing should not be an avenue for victory, ever.
Except hiding is a key part of the game.
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322535#Comment_3322535
If you’re at 2 survivors left and you still haven’t completed the generators, if the killer has a brain, you lost regardless. Also the control survivors had was not ending up in that situation in the first place.
Much like how if a killer gets no one on death hook or dead when gates are open and the survivors play it well, that is at least guaranteed 3 out if not 4. By that point, it already has long since reached a tipping point. The chance to change things has mostly already passed. Yeah, a last second turnaround is possible, but extremely unlikely without a miracle or massive misplays.
Except it's way easier to get an endgame kill than it is to clear multiple gens when there's 3 or fewer survivors left. Take away the hatch, survivors literal only avenue for victory in a LOT of matches is to just hold the game hostage until the killer gives up.
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322519#Comment_3322519
So then implement a mechanic that reveals survivors hiding and doing nothing to the killer. Then hiding becomes certain death.
So you want to create a solid lose/lose situation where the survivors are forced to lose, without any control on their part?
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If we're not allowed to use DS, we'll just use Prove Thyself instead.
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IIRC, the censor is AI operated.
Except without the 'I'.
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@prion11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321186#Comment_3321186
I like most of your suggestions but why remove the basement?
It's a relic from perma-sabo times which currently only serves to encourage camping and tunnelling. It's just not good for the game.
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Survivor: Decisive Strike basekit, Dead Hard removed.
Killer: Corrupt Intervention basekit, NOED removed.
BONUS: BNP and basement, both removed.
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Presumably, every time you acquire a Red Envelope, you'll get one of the ten cosmetics listed below the announcement.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320641#Comment_3320641
I think it was how they fixed the bug that made him lose his power for the entire match.
Unfortunately, this has made him be unable to do anything when up against props and walls, which is really inconvenient. I hope they're looking into a less jank solution.
I noticed that, which is especially frustrating when you're right up against a pallet or window vault. The ghost can phase through those, so why is that short jog (Which also feels really janky to control and makes his power slower) not allowed to go through these?
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Because that'd be kinda tricky to implement?
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It's not that Bubba himself is the problem. It's just that his kit is the best fit for a camping playstyle. And that playstyle is the problem.
Just don't camp and you're fine.
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BNPs.
They're not fun to use and they're a horrendous balance swing. I don't think they'd be lamented if they were removed.
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Remember that NOED also gives haste, so even downs on injured survivors benefit from it.
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@RaSavage42 said:
Ok so instead taking care if the illness lets focus on the symptoms.... sounds good fellas (sarcasm)
Making the penalty of multiple Survivors on a Gen bigger (on one side)
And then making Regression do more (basekit)
Or they can make Gens have cheakpoints... once reached they need to put a part into the Gen
And then either add more regression basekit (also fixing the perks around this)
Cause it's the Maps and Progression VS Regression that are the true causes for Camping and Tunneling
No, they're not. That's just the same old killer spiel of using tunnelling and camping as a beatstick.
"Change the game, or else I'll tunnel!"
"Throw the match and maybe I'll stop camping!"
"I might tunnel less if survivors got a few more nerfs!"
We heard it before. The devs acted on it before. It only got worse. Tunnelling and camping need direct, targeted nerfs to make them sub-par/non-viable playstyles.
5 second stun DS baseline (also no collision while it's up), and Reassurance goes back to a 40 second CD, just with 3/4/5 tokens per match.
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On occasion it'll work, but the problem is that survivors can't coordinate.
Like, Yoichi's perk is fine and all, but if the survivor can't tell the difference between that and any other perk that highlights you, they don't know what your goal is.
Similarly, it's a problem for me when people try to heal me before I can heal them. Desperate Measures doesn't work that way.
Survivors should be able to see each others' perks.
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@Tostapane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318705#Comment_3318705
For your logic then the old MoM was a Fair perk when it was released. Just because a perk was released in a certain way doesn't mean that It was fair or balanced. It's a fix because It wasn't supposed to stun the killer for so much time, the only reason It was modified so lately was because they gutted the previous meta (and killer players were asking for a long time some modifications to that perk because It was easily abusable by Survivors). Are you that dumb to think that ds Is useless right now? i guess that you don't play at high mmr then...
No, listen...
The first DS was 5 seconds and had no limitations or requirements. That was broken as heck.
Then it got nerfed to 3 seconds and required an unhook. But Enduring cut the stun too much, so it got buffed to 5 seconds.
But with that duration it was too strong because it allowed survivors to work on gens and still have DS up. So then they added the conspic action nerf.
And that is the way it stayed for years. And it was fine, with one exception: It needed to have its EGC usage cut, because that was unfair. Because guess what? Outside of that EGC situation, if you get hit by DS, you have made a string of mistakes that deserves to be punished.
Everyone knew that. All you had to do was switch target. Not chase the freshly unhooked. Not pick them up. It is the single most avoidable perk in the game.
Only the EGC thing was asked for by killers. -No one- asked for the stun to be cut down to 3 seconds. Because it didn't make sense.
3 seconds was fine back when it allowed survivors to just do a gen in the killer's face without risk. It's not fine now that it only works if the killer hard-tunnels you. The DS that got its stun duration increased to account for Enduring is not the same DS as the one that got cut by 40% after getting its last abusable situation pruned.
Are you that dumb to think that ds Is useless right now? i guess that you don't play at high mmr then...
The only reason DS holds any value is because getting downed clears deep wounds, allowing it to re-trigger other perks. Its stun is negligible for it still being one of the most avoidable perks.
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@Unimatrix00 said:
I don't get the negative comments. He looks like a normal guy. Not all guys are slim and svelt.
No, but Felix is. Which is why this cosmetic doesn't so much look like he's gained weight, but more like he's just stuffed a small pillow under his shirt.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318623#Comment_3318623
"It's not fun for the other side" cannot be a game design argument.
It sucks because you are losing. Very few games are fun to lose.
"It's not fun for the other side" cannot be a game design argument.
It absolutely can, and I hate this misconception.
Most people believe it because most of the egregious examples that prove that this is a valid design argument never see the light of day, or get trimmed relatively quickly. But you can absolutely create something utterly balanced, and yet necessitate its removal because it's just damn unhealthy for the game.
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Bubba and Hag are the ones that come to mind for me. Both are camper-magnets. You get hooked by either one, there's a really high chance that that's game for you.
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@Unimatrix00 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318521#Comment_3318521
Why didn't you finish gens and leave if the killer wasn't hooking or slugging you?
That detail wasn't missing. Any time he would work on a gen, the killer would knock him down and pick him up, but then refuse to hook.
As for the OP: This is absolutely abuse of gameplay.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
It's a PvP game.
If Survivors can focus on doing gens; The Killer can focus on removing Survivors. You can't let one side play sweaty while telling the other 'No, you have to play badly because of their feelings'.
Every 'penalty' suggestion has been horribly abuseable. Every 'penalty' TRIED has been horribly abused.
So...may want to get used to it.
Only one penalty for camping was ever tested, and that was over six years ago. The game's changed.
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@Tostapane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317119#Comment_3317119
2 nerfs? DS wasn't nerfed but fixed (remember that when it was released ds stunned for 3 seconds, which could be mitigated even more thanks to enduring, then the devs proceeded to buff DS to 5 seconds and later nerfing enduring, forgetting in the meantime to revert the DS stun back), but even nerfed this perk is extremely useful and timewasting for the killer, especially when paired with OTR and Dead Hard. Gens despite the 10 seconds added now feels more fast to do because the recently released perks allow a survivor to complete a generator in lesser time than before (a survivor with hyperfocus, stake out and a green toolbox can finish a gen in less than 45 seconds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYnLWrbGexg)
Nope, DS stunned for 5 when it released. Then it was nerfed to 4, then to 3 when the unhook requirement was added. Then it was buffed to 5, and it got rebalanced in that position by adding the conspic action nerf.
But I don't know why I'm explaining this. Because there's no way you are legitimately dumb enough to think that a 40% stun duration cut is a 'fix' but not a nerf, especially since the perk had maintained this form for THREE YEARS without any issue.
And good luck using Stakeout with a camping killer.
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The bonus BP stacks from both BBQ and WGLF were really damn healthy for the game because they gave an alternative win-condition that -wasn't- tied to frustrating the other side. Both need to return.
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I think there's an opening in terms of design for a survivor perk that, after certain conditions are met, will inform you of certain killer perks.
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TBH, I don't think Residual Manifest is a healthy perk to buff. Flashlights are a staple of bully squads, so giving extra power to them is likely to make matches much more miserable. And a 25 second, 7% hindered on killers would be -gruesome-. That's half a minute where the killer -cannot- chase.
The extra stun duration also seems like it could be a bit much.
One possibility I do see for an RM buff is to shift the blindness effect to a more advantageous position. Most killer blinds will happen when the killer is in chase. It's easiest to blind a killer when they break a pallet, after all. But blindness won't hinder them if they're in that close chase, and by the time their aura perks kick in, the blindness has probably already worn off.
So instead, I think RM should become active when you successfully blind the killer, and then when you get hooked, it triggers, afflicting the killer with blindness for 30 seconds.
Flipside is that this might make killers less likely to leave the hook, since they lose their intel options to go after other targets.
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Realistically, I think the only applicable info from the patch will be that someone else is going for an unhook, and whether or not they got intercepted. I really don't think this'll result in some huge escape spike.
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@TigerSnake said:
Like the other guy said, Decisive Strike was originally 3 seconds, increased to 5 cause of Enduring, but never was reduced back to 3 despite them saying they’d change it. Perk works just fine at 3 seconds, so let’s leave it that way. 5 seconds was obnoxiously long.
It was supposed to be obnoxiously long. To get hit with DS, you had to down someone who had been unhooked within the last 60 seconds, and who had not done anything to support their team for all that time, and then pick them up. The more conditional, and healthier the perk became, the more it became the killer's fault if they got hit with it.
It became an anti-tunnel perk that specifically and only worked to dissuade tunnelling. 5 seconds being 'obnoxiously long' was the entire purpose of the perk. You can't expect to comfortably tunnel into an anti-tunnel perk.
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Had one PH game where I downed two targets with a through-the-wall POTD, and another where I caught an escaping survivor, in the exit zone.
But probably my greatest moment was when me and another Felix were running from a Huntress in the basement of Badham Preschool. She downed him under a pallet, and I turned around and picked him up with FTP, allowing him to slam the pallet on her and for us to escape.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317563#Comment_3317563
No what i meant was deep wound. Dead hard "doesn't work" with OTR, because you already have deep wound after getting hit with it on. And the DS clears the deep wound.
Oh right, I misremembered!
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@Reinami said:
DS was replaced by DS. People seem to forget that DS removes endurance. So now the new hotness is:
- OTR
- Dead Hard
- DS
- insert whatever
You get unhooked. You take the hit for the unhooker with OTR thats 1 hit. Now the killer will probably tunnel you, thats 2 hits. Then you land DS, then endurance is removed, so you can dead hard, thats 3 hits. Now a 4th to down and get second hook on you.
I think you mean Exhaustion?
Wouldn't be surprised if that got removed though.
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@Batman781 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317296#Comment_3317296
if No Mither let survivors start the game healthy but be broken for the rest of the match after being injured while giving a visual que to the team you are No Mither status but not letting the killer see you cannot be healed, that would be the best buff survivors ever saw in this games history. Don't sleep on No Mither. The reason its considered a team handicap right now is because it is shown to the killer from the start.
Imagine if this change were to take place the power solo queue would gain combined with the use of Resilience. This idea may be just a theory but I have a feeling it is very close to accurate.
The only time it would be bad is if the whole team used it.
Imagine if this change were to take place the power solo queue would gain combined with the use of Resilience. This idea may be just a theory but I have a feeling it is very close to accurate.
Did you take anything into account other than your frustration with survivors healing themselves up at an inopportune moment?
Perma-broken for everyone would decimate survivors since they'd have half as much chase time on average, if not even less than that. It's already bad enough when it's an M1 killer that only needs to hit you once, but it's going to be even worse if it's a killer with any kind of power. There's the obvious problem cases where a first hit is entirely in the killer's control (Blight, Nurse), but then there's also the issue of stealth killers. What do you think it's going to do Pig's kill rate if a successful ambush doesn't just shave off half the chase, but the entire thing?
What about any perks that cause oblivious? Hex: Plaything would be unimaginably overpowered. Any ranged killer would be dementedly powerful.
Literally halving the time it takes to down a survivor isn't going to magically improve survivors' winrates. Resilience is not that strong. Trust me, I've played a wound-nabber build, it is not that good.
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Toolboxes aren't that bad. Genrush isn't a problem for my enjoyment of the game.
2+ flashlights, however, is a red flag for a bully squad.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316866#Comment_3316866
Survivors GOT 'buffs for camping/tunneling'; Basekit BT. But that's not enough, no. They will whine and scream until the developers make them literally immune to damage. Give an inch, and they take a mile.
Of course, with basekit BT came weaponizing it to bodyblock Killers from chasing unhookers; You know, the literal thing Survivors whine Killers never do. And, of course, Survivors then whine that they were 'tunneled' and demand tunneling punishments, nerfs, and more Survivor buffs to compensate for playing badly, I mean being 'tunneled'.
No, Survivors don't need MORE buffs 'if tunneling stays'. This is literally Survivors bodyblocking and trying for unsafe unhooks, then complaining when they get smacked down, as if their bad plays are a flaw in the game.
Accept that your opponent can play to win as hard as you can as a Survivor. Stop demanding Killers get kneecapped for 'my vague and entirely subjective fun!' 🙄
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316922#Comment_3316922
Give Survivors bonus BP for being camped. Make something like 'Your wriggling distracts the Killer form his true goals'. The longer camped, the more BP gained.
Survivors GOT 'buffs for camping/tunneling';
They got one buff and two nerfs. DS got removed and gens got slowed down, both feeding into tunnelling and camping as more effective strategies.
But hey, that's exactly what you asked for! 'Second chance' perks gutted, and tunnelling and camping get to stay and even get buffed! That's great, right?
Oh right, now you have to deal with a genrush meta, since actually punishing camping and tunnelling is disallowed. Oh well, I'm sure you'll deal with that as the consequence of getting exactly what you asked for, right? You'll probably not be back on the forums to cry about how the game has become worse from BHVR doing exactly what you told them to!
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Most frustrating match I ever played was, of course, versus Bubba. Got spawned in the undercroft of the big building in the swamp, and just as I was heading for the exit, Bubba found me. Only thing nearby was a dead useless loop, so he got a free chainsaw down, hooked me, and facecamped.
Rest of the team rushed gens as fast as possible, one person tried to get me off hook which of course didn't work because Bubba's chainsaw lasts way too long after chewing through BT, and then he proceeded to 4K because of NOED.
It was utter garbage.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314917#Comment_3314917
I love how whiny survivors call removing the easy target early (An intelligent play) 'brainless' because they get violently screechy when Killers don't 12 hook in the genrush + 500000 second chance perk META.
Every Survivor who whines about tunneling is saying the same thing: Genrushing (Survivors winning ASAP) is OK, because Survivors win. Tunneling (Killers winning ASAP) is evil, because Survivors lose.
That's all it is: Survivors expect Killers to play sub-optimally because 'WhAt AbOuT oUr FuN!?' but the second the Killer points out 'We can't 12 hook in games under 5 minutes', the reply is 'Get gud'. 😂
Because Killer fun does not matter. Only Survivor fun is expected. 🙃
We had a second chance perk meta before 6.1. What we have today is nothing of the sort. Instead of anti-tunnel and anti-camp measures clogging up survivor load-outs, we now have Prove Thyself cropping up as one of the most common perks.
But hey, that's what killers wanted, right? After all, any survivor that complains about tunnelling or camping will immediately get shouted down and told to 'git gud' since poor widdle killers have screwed up their own MMR by resorting to crutch tactics, and then subsequently complain about how unfair the game is when they've become dependent on those crutches.
You want camping and tunnelling to stay in the game? Then don't whinge about how YOU, personally, can't 12-hook. Because that is what you wanted to balance for.
People often say that if tunnelling and camping go, killers need compensatory buffs. The flipside of this is that if tunnelling and camping stay, survivors need compensatory buffs.
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@StarLost said:
If he's camping a 3gen from the start, making no effort to chase or anything and just stalling the game out (Peanits gave the example of a Doctor who just shocks folks off gens) - that's a hostage situation, and worth reporting.
Because yeah, it sucks.
The problem is that:
A. Defending a 3gen is often one of the few routes to victory a killer has against a nasty SWF.
B. It's hard to know if you're against an SWF at the start.
C. By the time you've realized they aren't, it's too late - because now if you abandon that 3gen, you lose.
Sadly, this is a strategy that really requires coordination to beat. Potential Energy is the best anti 3gen perk in the game, closely followed by Deja Vu, but both really need a team behind them. But...this game cannot be balanced around solo players.
Potential Energy is the best anti 3gen perk in the game
I'd consider Prove Thyself higher value than that. Only way I can see Potential Energy breaking a 3-gen is if multiple people are taking it, which requires too much coordination.
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I think it's because the new wiggle system is getting more fully integrated. It has good and great skillchecks, with differing powers and effects, so where do you put the AD spam?
Additionally, if the devs know what to expect from a survivor on the killer's shoulder, it becomes easier to adapt it to other aspects of gameplay. What if you had a perk, for example, that recharged charge-based perks for hitting great wiggle checks? You can't do that if AD-spamming is still also an option.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Yeah, after I got tunneled for "everyone is running DH", while I was the only one not running it, I dont believe stuff like that anymore.
I got tunnelled once for playing swiffer with an iri map and key.
Except I was playing solo with a dumpster diver build and plucked those items out of chests over the course of the trial. And the key was broken, too.