Firellius
Firellius
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- Firellius
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Depipping just needs to be removed, now that the grade system is no longer used for matchmaking purposes.
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That's not a shadow-buff. Shadow-buffs are mechanical or numerical adjustments that have not been announced or declared. But these perks have not been changed at all.
Their circumstances have improved, but that's not a shadow buff.
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@Moxie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333295#Comment_3333295
Yeah thankfully, they under-tuned this perk. Which is a good thing.
4 pests running around with half a gen of progress in their pocket sounds like hell lol.
Sounds like heaven to me. They all wasted a ton of extra time getting those tokens, and any person you slap immediately loses 27 seconds worth of work. You wouldn't get that kind of value out of half the killer perks in the game!
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@Moxie said:
Glad this perk is terrible.
Last thing we need right now is more "generator go fast" perks on x4 survivors.
Thing is, it's not even a 'generator go fast' perk. It's already a 33% slowdown on repair speed, up to 100% slowdown. Its only purpose is for potentially breaking a 3-gen if the killer isn't guarding it -too- well.
But with the drawbacks stacked on each other for this perk, it's in No Mither/Autodidact territory where it's actually a killer perk in disguise.
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Feels like every week there's a new Lord_Tony in town.
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How is this not bannable? This is very obviously exploiting a bug for a drastic, unfair advantage.
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@appleas said:
Don’t go for 12 hooks.
One or two mistakes in decisions or gameplay can cost you the game especially if you are dealing with players on your skill level. It happens. Mind games don’t just consist of outplaying survivors at pallets/structures. You want to pressure multiple survivors and not just one survivor at a time.
MMR is a mixed bag. There will always be mistakes or things you can improve on in your Killer games, however the skill level of the players, everyone’s perks and maps will affect the amount of mistakes you can afford to make.
While not every game will require you to camp/tunnel/slug, that doesn’t mean you should mentally limit yourself from doing so. Play based on what you think makes sense, not how you feel if you want to win.
Nemesis has good chase potential and his zombies can be good scouts/boxing the survivors in, but they are inconsistent. There will be games whereby they offer immense value, and other games where they just spawn in a corner of the map without gens.
While not every game will require you to camp/tunnel/slug, that doesn’t mean you should mentally limit yourself from doing so. Play based on what you think makes sense, not how you feel if you want to win.
Counterpoint: If you resort to camping, tunnelling and slugging in order to win, you need to realise that you may be getting kills that feel undeserved, which means your MMR will position itself above what you can comfortably handle, leading to more stressful matches.
You can have fun matches, or you can have a high win-rate, but it's very hard to do both unless you're really, really, -really- good at the game.
If matches are frustrating you, I recommend aiming for 2-hooking everyone but avoiding going for kills, or only going for kills once you've 2-hooked everyone. This'll keep your MMR low while giving you plenty of opportunity to test your skill.
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No, because that would require getting rid of camping and tunnelling and killers have been very vocal: They'd rather killers be underpowered but keep camping and tunnelling than anything else.
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@jinx3d said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3332476#Comment_3332476
i dont think its okay, but when dh, unbreakable, otr, adrenaline, every boon totem ever, old ds, and every survivor item minus maps do the same-providing pressure through their existence alone-i think its okay for killers to have a few
None of them provide pressure through existence, with the exception of Dead Hard.
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@jinx3d said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3332269#Comment_3332269
then noed making you cleanse totems isnt an issue. you already have tons of things you need to do that isnt generators
You think it's fine for a perk's existence to produce that kind of pressure? Or do you think it's fine that the only way to counterplay the perk is to give it an equally powerful, different function?
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@jinx3d said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3331917#Comment_3331917
saying cleansing totems=slowdown is stupid. that makes hooking, chasing, healing, etc all slowdown as well.
...
They are.
What do you think people mean when they talk about 'applying pressure'?
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3331922#Comment_3331922
They had no medkit, one is healing, the rest is repairing gens.
How do you know they didn't have a medkit? They could've dug one up from a chest.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3331911#Comment_3331911
I play mostly survivor, and soloQ. Also, I play boons a lot, tbh I really like them. My favorite build is CoH, Shadowstep, Exponential and Dark Theory.
Tonight I played 6 survivors games until now, I won 4, DC 1 (very laggy huntress) and lost 1. The 4 I won were mostly thanks to CoH. Yet, I barely saw my teamates. They were healing in my boon at the other side of the map. I didn't need any coordination. I want CoH reworked to be more fun for survivors.
I play both survivor and killer, and CoH has really had hardly any impact on my games. I'm pretty sure one killer game I won partially because of CoH.
The 4 I won were mostly thanks to CoH. Yet, I barely saw my teamates. They were healing in my boon at the other side of the map.
Were you in a swiffer? If not, how did you know they were healing at CoH?
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3331902#Comment_3331902
Ok I'll bite, why?
The perk allegedly encourages survivors to cleanse totems, as breaking all five prevents it from spawning. However, breaking all five totems makes the perk an efficient slowdown, so that's not actually a real counter.
Worse is when people do invest time and effort to counter it, but only find four out of five, in which case the 'counterplay':
A) did nothing, as NOED fires just as hard when you cleanse one totem or four.
B) made NOED slow you down on top of firing full force, making it stronger.
C) ensured NOED would NOT show up in any spot you DID find.
NOED, even now, is a really strong incentive for survivors to just not do bones. It should have its power tied to the number of totems left standing so its counterplay actually counters it, instead of it countering its counterplay.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3331906#Comment_3331906
You are trolling.
No, I'm not. Tunnelling is a killer's beatstick to try and force changes in the game.
'Change this, or I'll tunnel!'
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3331235#Comment_3331235
You are just bad. Not seeing a stealth killer coming is normal. If you can’t loop Wraith you are bad. If your teamate can’t find someone knocked out they are also bad. It’s a skill issue. Old school survivor were perfectly able to loop Wraith and beat him before CoH was a thing.
Eruption will get nerf.
You are so bad at this game you don’t realize CoH is forcing tunneling because it removes any other kind of pressure the killer can have. And it is making the game more boring for everyone. People sit on gens and retreat into the boon to heal themself. No interaction with the killer and no interaction with survivors between themselves. What a fun game. Repair simulator and self heal simulator.
Literally every minor inconvenience a killer faces is considered to 'force tunnelling'. People would feel 'forced to tunnel' if someone's actually getting skill-checks during Autodidact, or if a survivor loops them twice or blinds them at a pallet.
If CoH 'forces tunnelling', so does Botany.
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NOED still needs a rework. The nerf definitely helped put it down, but it's still a terribly designed perk.
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I've definitely seen it pop up multiple times, even though most of the time it accomplishes very little. There are some dead zones that make this perk combo dangerous, most notably the preschool basement, but outside of that it's not too much of a threat.
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@sanees said:
initially this discussion was created in contrast to another, where the survivor says without sarcasm that dh needs to be strengthened, at that moment I became interested in how hypocritical the survivors are and whether they recognize obvious double standards or even point-blank will ignore the facts, turned out 2
And are these survivors in the room with us now?
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3331268#Comment_3331268
well, if the constant knowledge of where the killer is and all your allies without any perks is fair, then for good the killer should also receive all the information perks simply by running the discord
by the way, constant communication in a game that is designed for the fact that survivors cannot talk to each other
Are you also upset that killers don't get to run Bond?
DbD is -asymmetrical-.
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@WitchKing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3331000#Comment_3331000
Yes, yes we are. This perk gives every survivor botany knowledge without medkit penalty and also a bit slower than normal self heal. One COH can change very easy game for killer into the missery. Killers that benefits from hit and run tactic (Wraith. Sadako, Dredge, Freddy etc.) are countered by this perk but Nurse and Blight don't care about it, they are simply too strong.
It is broken perk and argument "I don't see it so often anymore, maybe one or two perk game" is not valid, this is 1 perk for 4 survivors
It also requires way more set-up than botany, medkits or self-care, and has more counterplay. Overall, from both survivor and killer side, this perk is not that big of a deal.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3331092#Comment_3331092
While some of those are unsurprising, it's a little odd that Up the Ante is there, considering Slippery Meat must have been used by someone, and you usually would run them together.
Also Hoarder is at least usable on Cenobite and Dissolution isn't like bottom tier terrible.
Also poor Haddie, Cheryl and Ash each having two of their perks never used. And each of their third perks aren't very good either.
Honestly, survivor perks are, on average, flat out terrible.
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Interestingly, Azhymovs released a video just two days ago where he and his discord mods compiled data from a number of self-reported trials. This data is therefor obviously not entirely reliable, but in terms of least used perks, I think it's pretty fair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A8P3PCZavoAccording to this video, in over a hundred games tallied, the following survivor perks made NO appearance whatsoever:
Blood Pact, Buckle Up, Inner Focus, Mettle of Man, Overzealous, Poised, Red Herring, Self-Preservation, Soul Guard, Up the Ante.
The following killer perks made NO appearance:
Dissolution, Hangman's Trick, Hoarder, Overwhelming presence, Septic Touch.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Im all for an eruption nerf. Definitely shorten the incapacitation, remove the scream notification.
Prove is another one that definitely needs a nerf and doesn't get mentioned much for some reason. Most killer mains prefer to moan about DH.
Prove is far too strong for gen rushing. 15 percent speed boost is a lot for repair speed. And having it stack per survivor for each survivor is absolutely nuts. It's asking for coordinated swfs to get stupid high repair speeds. 4 survs on a gen each with 45% increased repair speed? Utter filth.
And it's just as effective at level one as it is at 3. Only the BP bonus changes. Which is a joke. Personally i reckon it should give the user a 15% boost if used when another surv(s) is on a gen and that's it, shouldn't affect the other survs. Or 5% boost for each surv working the gen together. So a team of 4 survs on one gen gets a 20% total boost.
Every super sweaty swf I see as killer popping gens super quick always has a prove or two in the perk builds. And no one really benefits from a short game.
Fun fact: Prove Thyself doesn't actually increase gen speed. It just countermands the innate co-op penalty survivors get when they work together.
That speed they're achieving by all bunching up and giving the killer a #########-ton of extra pressure if he or she catches them? They'd achieve the exact same speed if they all split up and made it impossible for the killer to pressure them all at the same time.
The only reason Prove Thyself is currently considered a strong perk is because of the gen regression meta, where it makes it somewhat more possible to break a killer's hold on a 3-gen.
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@Krazzik said:
Eruption isn't necessarily OP, it's effect is strong don't get me wrong, but the main issue with it is that there just isn't any realistic counterplay for survivors who aren't all on comms.
Even now with the updated HUD where you can see if someone is injured and in chase, you can't tell survivors "just don't do gens when someone is injured and in chase" because that takes away far too much time on gens. Someone injured could still run the killer for ages, especially with Dead Hard being such a popular perk. Conversely someone injured could go down in three seconds, you have no way of knowing, and that's the problem.
Well, that, and the fact that the status effect it inflicts is literally just 'quit playing' for, what is it, 25 seconds?
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330219#Comment_3330219
Sorry, no, it was a Myers on Thompson House.
Would've been a funny coincidence, because I did have a match the other day with one AFK, and the fourth survivor refusing to unhook both of her actually active teammates.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330106#Comment_3330106
haha you're not wrong. I've felt that I'm getting more value for my time spent in matches the past few days, but I'm sure that's also because of the extra BP from the event. We'll see if it still feels better in a couple weeks.
On a related note, the new icons are nice, but we're missing one icon for sure: a crow icon. When I pull some AFKer out of a locker, their teammates deserve to know it's because there were three birds cawing at me. (It would help survivors for real, too: that teammate who's not on a gen isn't going for the save, they're AFK. I had this get me and my friend killed just yesterday in a match and I could tell the killer was pissed at the AFKer and the guy who let us die on our first hooks.)
That wouldn't happen to have been a Dredge on Dead Dawg Saloon, would it?
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330159#Comment_3330159
How about : just let the killer break bones by interacting with the boon. Then any boon can only be used at most 5 times before there are no bones left.
And then change Noed so that it can trigger from broken bones - not that anyone is still using it.
That would completely invalidate all boons and permanently close the door on their concept, so no.
Also, having NOED trigger from broken bones is a really unfair idea as well.
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It really can't take much more nerfing before it goes the way of practically all other survivor perks and drops to a 0% pickrate.
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I don't care about 4Ks at all. I just want to prove myself a competent player, so getting 8 hooks and 0K is already better than 3 hooks, 1K. I've never slugged for the 4K and I have no plans to ever do that, it's a complete waste of everyone's time for the most marginal quantity of ego points.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329510#Comment_3329510
Every perk has efficiency losses, though. It's like saying Self-Care isn't 35% efficient healing because most of the time you don't start healing exactly as soon as you get off hook or the Killer wanders off (and those who do tend to go down immediately). The case you should be making is how the efficiency loss for travelling to a booned area and setup time somehow makes it in line with other healing perks. But they don't.
Saying "this number is only theoretical in its efficiency gains" goes for every single instance where a perk isn't 'drop everything and do the activity on the spot', which is almost always a catastrophic misplay and does way more harm to efficiency as a consequence.
And? Are we talking balance or playstyles here? Because the former is a valid concern, the latter is obviously not, otherwise we wouldn't have killers like Doctor or Plague.
They're intertwined. Some Killers are expected to play a more hit and run style. Other Killers who don't rely entirely on instadowns are at least generally assumed to get some value out of injuring and dropping chase.
One perk, on one survivor, eliminates both these expectations. That's horribly balanced.
The case you should be making is how the efficiency loss for travelling to a booned area and setup time somehow makes it in line with other healing perks. But they don't.
That is exactly the case I am making, and yes, they do.
Trust me, I run a TON of healing perks, and CoH is NOT that spectacular. It -can- be, but it's also far more likely than most other healing perks to not do anything at all.
Some Killers are expected to play a more hit and run style.
Yes, and those are equipped to perform it to such an extent that CoH won't stop it.
Other Killers who don't rely entirely on instadowns are at least generally assumed to get some value out of injuring and dropping chase.
And they still do, even if they drop chase within CoH aura, because CoH isn't -100% healing time, unlike what you've been presenting it as. But even then, all you need to do is -not- drop chase within the aura unless you're snuffing it out.
This perk is not some kind of death-grip on the hit-and-run playstyle. It's a counter, but so is Empathic Connection.
All this talk about CoH is gross exaggeration that does not line up with how the perk actually performs in-game.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329429#Comment_3329429
And all other perks have theoretical numbers.
Seriously, though, "Circle of Healing provides 75% efficient self-heals in an area that covers 1/5 of your average map and gets outright silly on multi-level maps" is not a theoretical number. Nor is its ability to boost anyone else that may be in said area. Will it always get peak usage? No. But that goes for everything. Someone can be running CoB+Eruption+NtH and they might never get any value from it because they can't get the downs in time, but we don't pretend the combo isn't problematic the way it works now.
Don't try to force your way through a counter, adapt to it. Commit to chases and go for downs rather than injuries, if CoH is such a problem.
Yeah, I said that's what people have to do. And that's the problem: the counter to one Survivor on the team bringing one perk is essentially "an entire playstyle has to be abandoned".
Think about that: one Survivor brings one perk, and it's used enough you have good odds of seeing at least one of them in 75% of games, and an entire playstyle that some entire Killers are meant to utilise (stealth killers particularly, and Legion's entire thing aside from currently negating DH) is massively devalued to the point that 'commit to chase even when you know it's a bad chase' is required if you want to get value.
That's horrible from a balance perspective! It's not even an expensive investment on the Survivor side, and it gets massive value by its very existence.
And all other perks have theoretical numbers.
Yes, and those theoretical numbers mean -nothing-, that's the point.
"Circle of Healing provides 75% efficient self-heals in an area that covers 1/5 of your average map and gets outright silly on multi-level maps" is not a theoretical number.
Yes, it is. Run the perk, figure out how efficient it is, because in reality, it doesn't ever hit that 75%. I mean, your approach to these theoretical numbers is already banning out the number that's inconvenient to your argument, so I don't know how anyone is supposed to take your assessment seriously.
Yeah, I said that's what people have to do. And that's the problem: the counter to one Survivor on the team bringing one perk is essentially "an entire playstyle has to be abandoned".
And? Are we talking balance or playstyles here? Because the former is a valid concern, the latter is obviously not, otherwise we wouldn't have killers like Doctor or Plague.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329396#Comment_3329396
It takes one perk slot, and four players have self-heals. It isn't four perk slots for self heals, or four items with limited charges for self heals, or eight perk slots for faster self heals. Even after the nerf, it's 1 perk slot for 75% efficient self-heals for the entire team, and if somebody is in the area and free they get a 50% healing speed boost.
CoH prevents generating pressure by spreading injuries--an injured Survivor doesn't pull someone else off of a gen to heal them or stay vulnerable, they run off and heal on their own. Instead of two distracted Survivors whilst chasing a third, or two Survivors grouped up to disrupt, there's only one Survivor occupied, nobody has to leave gens to help them.
And unlike items, it doesn't run out! Even ignoring the idea of bringing other items for some other reason, it's only something that can be entirely removed if the Killer learns who placed it, or if they invest one of the four perk slots they have on something that might not be needed this game (or that they never have chance for)--unlike being able to see four medkits in Lobby and swap Franklin's on or something.
All of this, and if someone else does have a healing perk, it gets boosted too if it ends up in the right spot! This isn't even considering map totem spawns, like main building in Eyrie (I think it still has a totem up there?) that make it trivial to get huge value from placing it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329402#Comment_3329402
It's much stronger than Botany in how its presence warps acceptable tactics and build requirements. CoH does more to make spreading injuries to cause slowdown impossible than anything except everyone building for self heals (which is a lot more investment, even if four medkits isn't that much now... but at least visible and counterable). Its presence prioritises not dropping chases after a hit and focusing one Survivor.
Which also pairs horribly with how Dead Hard warps gameplay the same way. You get a perk that penalises anything except dropping chases, and one that warps how chases are played and when you can go for a down, and they're a persistently miserable combo for trying anything else.
It takes one perk slot, and four players have self-heals. It isn't four perk slots for self heals, or four items with limited charges for self heals, or eight perk slots for faster self heals. Even after the nerf, it's 1 perk slot for 75% efficient self-heals for the entire team, and if somebody is in the area and free they get a 50% healing speed boost.
These numbers are purely in the realm of theory, because practice is way more complicated. If the killer is in the boon area, you can't afford to sit still for ages and heal, and if the killer isn't in the boon area, then any heal speed gets reduced by the fact that the survivor has to move into the boon's influence to make use of it.
And that's also not considering the time it takes to boon.
These numbers are 'best case scenarios' that in reality are surprisingly uncommon. This is something I also really dislike about the way survivor perks get talked about: They are only ever considered from optimal situations, just like that thread the other day where people were legitimately up in arms over a massive multi-stack of conditional perks to minimise heal time, blatantly missing how these situations would not occur during normal gameplay.
CoH prevents generating pressure by spreading injuries
A) that is an overstatement, as CoH CAN diminish pressure, but it doesn't prevent it, and B), that in and of itself is not a problem, much like DS hindering tunnelling is not a problem. If you're up against a CoH, don't bank on spreading injuries and that perk becomes worse and worse.
Don't try to force your way through a counter, adapt to it. Commit to chases and go for downs rather than injuries, if CoH is such a problem.
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329402#Comment_3329402
Survivor time is also not comparable to killer time. The 14 seconds to set up a boon can either be crucial or negligible depending on circumstances including gen and totem placements, and the current health/hook state of the game.
Many games have been won entirely due to CoH. Where survivors have a safe zone they can run back to. Not merely individual survivors who have the ability to run away from objectives to heal up, but any and every survivor has the equal ability to do so, all for the cost of one perk. This is far more powerful than individual healing capabilities because it means they can run relays between healing and repairing, ensuring there's as little downtime on either action as is possible.
In order to do this without CoH, every survivor would need to dedicate some of their build to healing, with CoH, only one needs to do so.
Many games have been won entirely due to CoH.
And many games have also been won due to a single trapper trap. Does that make trapper OP?
This game has a snowball tendency. One slip-up or outplay on either side can turn games around. The ability to turn a game around is nothing special. I wager many games have also been won by Lithe, or Fixated, if you were to dive into the numbers to the same extent people do about Circle of Healing.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329396#Comment_3329396
Except it's four times more potent for the cost of one perk slot...
Except it isn't. That's part of the misconceptions. CoH isn't actually that much stronger than Botany in its current iteration because of how much more conditional it is in comparison. There's loads of timeloss involved with the use of the perk that other healing perks don't incur. They're not one-to-one comparable.
Playing with and against CoH, in practice, this perk is way weaker than what people on the forums make it out to be. That's not to say that it isn't a strong perk, but it's not some grotesquely overpowered game-changer.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329318#Comment_3329318
Second Wind definitely saw use, although We'll Make It is probably the most common conditional healing perk, and is still in use now.
CoH definitely has a significant effect. It forms a safe zone survivors can run to to heal, and if killers try to follow and continue that chase, they give up all their gen pressure, putting them in a lose-lose situation. You either take the bait and score a down which costs you a gen which is not a fair trade (you need at least 2 hooks per gen on average to make ground as killer) , or you defend the gen and the survivor heals up, temporarily resetting the gamestate.
The core problem is that, as others have mentioned, killer has 4 perks ad survivors have 16. It is an asymmetrical pvp game, where one side is weaker, but has numbers on their side.
In general, killer perks are worth more than survivor perks, that's how it has to be. But CoH is on par with the power of a killer perk, being that it invariably benefits all four survivors for the cost of one perk slot.
But this was always the trade-off. CoH doesn't change that any more than any other healing perk does.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329308#Comment_3329308
Conditional healing perks got plenty of use before CoH came in and obliterated the competition.
Inner Healing used to be considered a decent perk.
Now CoH does the same thing, infinitely, for all four survivors for the cost of one perk slot.
It's eliminated hit and run tactics from killers, which forces more camping and tunnelling.
Inner Healing being the ONLY one, though. Solidarity saw no use, Second Wind saw no use, in fact, healing perks were rarely picked at all before CoH, barring Inner Healing and Self-Care. Even Botany rarely saw any use.
It's eliminated hit and run tactics from killers, which forces more camping and tunnelling.
On paper, yes, in practice, no. Because CoH doesn't just reduce healing time by an invariable amount in most cases. Same misconception popped up in another thread the other day about how CoH is the only boon that wants to be away from the killer, and that's incorrect.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329058#Comment_3329058
Self-Care was one of the Perks which just got nerfed for the sake of nerfing. It was already a pretty bad healing option, now it is even worse (which does not prevent people from bringing it and heal for over 40 seconds at baseline..) or has to be paired with Botany Knowledge.
Regarding Botany Knowledge - IMO the efficiency debuff was not needed. The thing is, they wanted to reduce the efficiency with Medkits to slow down Healing Speeds with them, which would have been faster with Botany Knowledge.
However, IMO they should just cap healing Speeds to a minimum time required (same with how much Slowdown a Killer can bring). So that you can still use Perks with Medkits, but avoid things like 4 second Self-Heals when you stack all the Healing-Stuff. This would also mean that individual Perks can be stronger, because pairing them with other Perks will not grant insane Healing Speeds.
However, IMO they should just cap healing Speeds to a minimum time required (same with how much Slowdown a Killer can bring). So that you can still use Perks with Medkits, but avoid things like 4 second Self-Heals when you stack all the Healing-Stuff. This would also mean that individual Perks can be stronger, because pairing them with other Perks will not grant insane Healing Speeds.
That'd just massively flatten builds.
Honestly, super heal speeds aren't even that big of a deal. Most of the time it barely comes into play at all. Healing is way more conditional than people realise, and it saves way less time than people think. There's a reason the conditional healing perks get no usage.
Even CoH is not that much of a threat anymore. It saves a ton of time on paper, but not in practice.
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@Witchubtet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328695#Comment_3328695
I mean there are plenty of builds that can do the same thing. Plus that could score you one or two kills
No, I'm pretty sure there's no build out there that allows you to one-hit kill all survivors without ANY hooks prior. Closest thing is Rancor.
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Had one yesterday. It's still in the game, nothing's been done to alleviate it. There was one attempt a while ago, but they nerfed the crap out of it before it came to live to ensure it wouldn't work against camping anymore.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3327829#Comment_3327829
BHVR did not buff the killer experience last year. They only gave killer uninspired generic number buffs to raise their kill rate. Killers aren’t saying “playing killer FEELS BETTER” after they got slightly faster kicking speed”. Killers aren’t saying “playing killer FEELS BETTER” after they got slightly faster weapon recovery time.
Nothing BHVR did actually made killers feel better to play. In fact, we’ve gotten absolute zero input from BHVR that they care about the killer experience at all. They might give killers generic buffs to fix their kill rate, but at no point at all have they discussed with us if they ever plan on making quality of life changes for killers.
BHVR absolutely cares about killers. More so than about survivors, even. The problem is that killers want to have their cake and eat it too, and that's where BHVR doesn't go along with them.
BHVR is aiming for balance, but where that balance point lies was left to the killers to decide, and what did the killers decide?
"Camping and tunnelling MUST stay"
So that became the balance point.
You're not having a good time? Well, that was the intent. Killers got what they asked for.
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@TigerSnake said:
The devs wanted it to stay mostly the same in order to incentivize survivors to cleanse totems.
That's why it should change, because NOED, now more than ever, does the opposite.
NOED should be a hex that ignites all remaining dull totems (So it doesn't ignite broken totems or boons) once the fifth gen is completed. For each totem that gets lit up, the killer gains a 1.5% speed boost.
If there's 2 totems lit up, NOED renders all survivors oblivious.
If there's 3 totems lit up, NOED renders all survivors exposed as well.
If there's 4 totems lit up, NOED will block the exit gates as well.
If there's 5 totems lit up, NOED will reveal all survivor auras as well.
Make it incremental to the number of totems the survivors left unattended, because current NOED is harsher to survivors that do cleanse totems than it is to those who don't.
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The points aren't a perfect analysis of someone's performance, but they do certainly indicate somewhat how much someone has done. There are some things that throw it off, like someone wasting a killer's time by drawing their attention and then hiding does not award points, or how the categories are capped, but if someone escapes with around 15K points or less in a properly engaged match, they certainly didn't do well.
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Honestly, with extremely powerful intel perks like Darkness Revealed and Nowhere to Hide, you can't stealth at all anymore without Distortion. I don't think it's to do with any content creator, it's just a natural conclusion to most killers bringing at least one big intel perk.
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@antag0nisticw0mble said:
It's not a free health state it's an exhaustion perk that has a 40s cooldown. I don't see the problem with dead hard. The real issue is gen perks triggering other gen perks. Not only do you have pain res and eruption stacking but on top of that it is considered generator damage which triggers call of brine.
I see killers complaining about 3rd health state but when survivors complain about the current gen/aura stacking meta we get the same response nothing is broken.
DOES it trigger Call of Brine? I thought Call of Brine specifically required you to complete the 'damage generator' action, which would make it not trigger off Pain Res, Jolt and Oppression.
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@wydyadoit said:
it's not a "soft throw".
it's a challenge. just like how there are achievements for running 3 perks instead of 4.
by that logic - all challenges should be removed because they're not based on winning. relic hunts, non-meta perk builds, escaping through hatch, be chased by the killer, etc.
all of those are soft throws. should be deleted.
There's a major difference between challenges that require you to participate in normal gameplay (Complete generators, heal other survivors, heal yourself in COH, get safe rescues, etc.) versus something that the game hard-punishes you for doing. If you are being chased by the killer and you drop from a great height, you are guaranteed to get hit because of the landing stun. If you bring Balanced Landing, it's slightly better, but not by much, since you still take a short stun upon landing.
Either way, this challenges specifically requires you to do a worse job in chases than normal.
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As someone who likes to run mega-healy builds: This stuff is not nearly as effective as it's made out to be. It saves a little bit of time on every hook, but rarely does more than that, unless the killer tries to maintain injury on everyone.
And the only killers that might want to do that are Plague and Legion. And it doesn't work against Plague for obvious reasons, and it doesn't work against Legion because Legion's power cooldown is shorter than those heals anyway.
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@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323540#Comment_3323540
I never understood this logic of "You counter OTR by tunneling harder." Not only is that true for old Decisive, it's true for any and all anti-tunneling mechanics in this entire game. The single biggest counter to anti-tunneling perks and strategies is to simply tunnel through them in the same way that countering gen slowdown is to simply do gens through the slowdown. That's not a unique counter to OTR in the slightest.
No, I mean that if you tunnel hard enough to hit a survivor while they're under the effect of baseline BT, OTR is disabled entirely. This didn't happen with DS. You could smack someone directly under hook, but if you then picked them up, you'd get stunned.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323566#Comment_3323566
I love the idea of a survivor getting a cup of coffee as part of using a perk though.
"Welp, you got tunnelled, but here's a cuppa joe for your troubles!"
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@StarLost said:
The issue isn't the timer.
It's that it resets by you getting a cup of coffee.
What other games do is make the penalty only decay after playing x number of games without DCing.
I think you're thinking of the DC (Disconnect) timer, not the DS (Decisive Strike) timer.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322913#Comment_3322913
Yeah but I'm saying the only perk actually nerfed was DS but it doesnt make it weak just OTR has completely replaced it and if anything the biggest nerf to DS is the deactivation on end game.
My point was only DS was nerfed while OTR replaced it, BT was made base, DH was just a change and not a nerf and if you stack them all (OTR,DS,DH not BT as that's base) it's now stronger than it use to be.
I'm not sure what your experience was before but perks like DS, DH, BT, UB etc. Was always so meta and I would see 3+ each every game so saying"thats 3 perks" doesnt mean much as survivors have always stacked them anyway except not BT is base so you get a free extra choice and OTR replaces DS so of anything survivors are the same with less perks used or if they choose to use more perks like all 3 it's been made stronger.
I still see alot of the same meta on survivor, main difference now is OTR has replaced DS but some still use it even with OTR and BT is now base so it's like survivors who ran bt before have 5 perks now meanwhile the killer meta has changed far more in perks being used, except Scourage pain which is still common but used far less than before
OTR doesn't work as anti-tunnel since it's circumvented by the killer just tunnelling harder.
And yes, people used to bring DS, DH, BT and UB, but only DS was there for anti-tunnel, with a tangential mention of UB for when killers just left the tunnel victim slugged. Now you need OTR AND DS in order to have -any- anti-tunnel.