Financial_Stability
Financial_Stability
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
How much?
yes
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You don't want them.
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There is a lot I'd switch up on here, such as bubba, mike, Demo, Plague, and Hag.
I don't really agree with most of your placement.
:/
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I think Empathy is an amazing perk for survivor. As opposed to bond, you can see if an injured survivor is running from something, aka the killer. It's a budget OoO without a downside. And if you decide that you want to be the team medic, it makes your job a whole lot easier.
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I'd probably switch GF and Hag, or GF and billy, but overall I'm in agreement.
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@FluorescentLemon said:
No buff for you. Check back in three years.
;-;
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@HatCreature said:
So a 115% movement speed Mint Rag Hag but instead of setting off traps he can sense people next to them. Insidious Bubba has some competition on the Basement game.
Given we can negotiate the cooldown of the teleport to say 40~ seconds, I don't think it would be better than hag with mint rag, considering he still burrows into his tunnel and travels. In that frame, I don't think it'd be as good as mint rag.
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@coppersly said:
I could see it being a rare/ultra-rare addon that increases the cooldown by ~20 seconds. I think that would be a fair middle ground as having it be in his basekit makes him a much better Hag.
I think the cooldown time can be reasonably increased, I'd honestly be fine seeing it at 40~ seconds if it can make it to basekit.
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I feel people think demo is stronger than he actually is. I also think that his main issue lies in his portal ability. He can't snowball fast enough to keep up a game, especially on a larger map. Having to walk to a portal is insanely time-consuming and for a very little bit of distance gained, because it is rare for survivors to be near a portal without either noticing it or just plain not in the vicinity. Letting him teleport without a portal would alleviate this a bit.
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I think it's too harsh as well, but I'm imagining they want you to run a speed addon alongside it. If they just removed the effect it had on movement speed I think that would be for the best.
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@Mr_K said:
It's still 3 seconds per blink as before. The addons to reduce the cool down were nerfed. Maybe thats what they were talking about?
If that's the case then I am remembering wrong. Still remains a very sad change in my eyes.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/840088#Comment_840088
It was bugged. If you M1 during the blink window the recharge started the moment you pressed M1 instead of waiting for fatigue to start. This made it seem better than it was.
They clearly overstepped. Look at the Spirit changes. People are more concerned with the exclusive cosmetics. Nurse base changes got a lot of outcry. Few cared about the addon changes.
I know that, but I mean the actual timer on the recharge. Now that I think of it I might be mistaken, but a friend of mine had told me the blink charge was slightly nerfed as well.
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They also nerfed the recharge from ptb if I remember correctly on her basekit.
It really makes me facepalm when the devs state they want to balance around fun, but go and make these changes which essentially sucks any fun out of the killer herself. Not that they should even be balancing for fun, but they don't seem to want to walk their own talk.
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@Peanits said:
I know this isn't a very serious thread, but let's try to turn this into something constructive. How many average kills do you think something should get per match before you consider it to be overperforming? We can talk specifically about red ranks if you prefer.
With the current ranking system, I don't think we really can judge if a killer is overperforming due to the huge gap between player skill at red ranks, and the fact that not all of them are swf. It'd be entirely disingenuous to try to make an ideal average with the current state of how the game determines "skill." I hope this will be remedied properly with the upcoming rank rework by judging on results instead of the actions in game which may or may not affect your result.
In my opinion, we'd ideally take the result of how many kills a killer gets and how many escapes a team gets, so say if a killer 4ks, he clearly did something to win against the opposing team and therefore should be placed higher than those survivors, while for survivors if they 3 escape, they did something collectively and still won, so even that one death should be rewarded a pip because they contributed to that 3-escape. You win as a team on survivor, not alone.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/833990#Comment_833990
Seems you were right, I have no trouble admitting i was wrong. You can as a matter of fact catch up via double blinks. So depending when the survivor does notice you (~32m). It takes two or three double blinks (at the third you would actually have to juke her).
I am still confused why I had so diffrent results a day before.
I find it quite odd that this is so effective, no exhaustion, no nothing yet but running. So for each down just with that you can realisticly stretch a single chase just to 1:30min or even more.
I don't know I am still not satisfied with the results but better than not being able to catch up at all i guess. The when the survivor notices you is not possible, is a little confusing it is more visible in the 2nd example of double blinks.
Given LOS you won't hit that.
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On a more reasonable level, I think some of the addons, especially the amulet and charge addons were overnerfed, but overall I'm glad it wasn't as bad as what they did with Nurse and her basekit.
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Sooner I get into the next match the better. I think that goes the same for other survivors. I'd rather not waste my time and theirs doing farming unless there was a very good reason to. Especially with how many people dc these days.
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Throw stridor on spirit permanently and you got yourself the strongest killer in the game.
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In terms of emblems, a 4k at red rank often leaves me with a black pip that's closer to a depip than an actual pip. That's an issue in my mind, especially for Plague players who suffer in the chaser emblem simply due to how her power works.
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Yep. Voice chat should be implemented for survivors. There would be some who might take issue with that, but given the option to mute people individually or mute it entirely, they should have no complaints.
We can't ignore the issue of whether to balance towards swf or solo. The only real way to fix this issue is to give solos the tools that SWF have, which is vc. For a healthier game, this is important.
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@GrootDude said:
What is an updoot? :P
Upvote. ;]
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I'm not a fan of the perks tbh. The first two are neither fun nor effective, making them pretty much dead in the water. The last one seems interesting, but just that.
The actual power of the Alchemist is cool, just some specifics I'm questioning like how often does he get to use his power and such, and does he have a max limit like myers. Good overall.
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@hiC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/808155#Comment_808155
Sorry for misunderstanding again and thanks for clarifying.
What bearing does very skilled vs competent vs average vs casual have on balancing the game? Nobody is saying the game is or needs to be balanced around red rank game play. I actually think the consensus is that the game is mostly balanced around purple-green ranks, where the majority of the player base is.
What I believe is that balance should be coming from the top, and the players should be adapting and learning from other skilled players. If I may bring up an example, R6 Siege balances around their competitive scene, their top players to a very good degree of success. For overall longevity and health, balancing around the top tends to give the game a longer life. Eventually, DBD will die down in popularity, and all that will be left is the hardcore fanbase, which are the people who've put serious time and effort into becoming very skilled.
With a game balanced around a median of players, you relinquish the right to have actual fair play. Balance inconsistencies will arise simply due to better players utilizing unbalanced mechanics that might have a higher barrier to entry than the average player cares to get to. Instead of making the process of getting good rewarding and fair, you'd be trying to cheese the most unbalanced mechanics to your favor. OoO is an excellent example of this.
It's remained unchanged since it's release for the most part. It's a perfect information perk that neuters over half the roster. There's maybe two killers that you'd be in an actual disadvantage if you were to use the perk. Even now, it kills Trapper to the point of him being a simple M1 killer and in a coordinated SWF, neuters Hag to an outstanding degree.
I say this from experience, as I have participated in many tournaments ranging from low profile to very high profile. My team, Instant Dodge, have won TydeTyme's 750$ tournament and several of Space Esports' weekly ritual tournaments that went for 150$ for first place. Of course after Marth started helping them out, they've gotten a lot better since the anniversary tournament. But this is just to state my credibility.
This also brings up the issue of SWF. If I'm going to be honest, it'd be dumb to nerf it directly or remove it. Instead, I personally believe that the game should implement voice chat for solos so they have the opportunity to not get left out if a nerf meant for swf ends up hurting solos far worse. Given there needs to be an option to mute certain players and mute it entirely for obvious reasons.
From that I can finally see the playerbase agreeing to balance the game towards the top players, SWF in particular.
That would of course mean major killer overhauls, but for the health of the game I think this is a necessary step in order to reach true balance. That's my perspective.
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@hiC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/808125#Comment_808125
Sorry I misunderstood the Wraith example.
I see survivors getting 3-4 escapes with no items regularly. By the same logic, doesn’t that mean that all the Rank 1 killers are actually potatoes? I disagree that performance without add ons or items actually has much relevance.
Rank does correlate to skill. It’s a dumb DBD community meme to say it doesn’t. There are regular posts here about how ‘unfun’ it is to play a red ranks. You know why that is? Both sides play more efficiently. Killers know how to leverage their powers. Survivors know their loops and pallet spawns. The higher ranks are home to the better players.
Again you're misunderstanding me. I never said that rank doesn't at all correlate to skill. What I am saying is that rank only correlates to skill to a certain point. Beyond simply "good at the game" the ranking system has no means to differentiate between the very skilled and the simply good. That's my issue. Red ranks are crowded with players that aren't the most skilled in the game. That's why I bring up the possibility to 4k with Wraith against red rank players, it shows that Rank doesn't correlate to skill beyond a certain point.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Why should it be balanced for Red Rank Survivors (like many say), but not for Red Rank Killers?
Balance and rank really shouldn't be put in the same sentence with how the current emblem system works. The thing is that people want to balance for "casual play." This in itself is a faulty way of going about balancing a game, because you'll have to pick and choose what is bad and what is good based on people's feelings, not skill. If we made the ranking system actually count for the objective, that means we can balance between the highest skilled players, which are players that do their objective as efficiently as possible. There's more steps to it, but that's the general idea I want to get across.
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Her chaser is absolutely atrocious. Her bp gain is abysmal. She needs some QOL changes to fix her bp gain and her power from becoming completely useless.
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@twistedmonkey said:
They don't the look over the whole userbase and the argument you presented is saying that's the right thing to do 😉.
The devs have the means to break down many stats but it's not just about one a killer doesn't overperform just with kills or the Nurse would gave been changed a long time ago.
Kills over all players.
Length of chases.
How often players lose her.
Hits when using a power.
Gen speed versus her.
How these all change with certain perks.
To name but a few stats.
That's completely understandable, and what I'm trying to get at is that we need a ranking system that represents a players actual objective. Balancing around that would lead to more of a clear idea on what exactly needs to be done about x issue. That's my opinion of course, but as it is now you're punished for doing your objective too efficiently.
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@Weederick said:
Killer A is the better killer.
Everyone can proxycamp for easy kills. Its what every noob do, what your instincts are, when you know nothing about the game. Applying map pressure and patrolling gens while still 4k'ing takes experience and bravery to leave the hook.
So why do something that is more risky to get the same result? BP of course, but if we completely disregard that, why are you putting yourself in a handicap? A killer who does everything in their power bar hacking/exploiting to do their objective, which is sacrificing as many people as possible, is better than someone who takes the long way to reach the same goal.
Would you rather mow your lawn with a hedge trimmer or an actual mower?
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@hiC said:
The Rank doesn’t equal skill meme is just so stupid. If you really think you’re going to consistently 4K Rank 1 survivors with no perks Wraith because they’re potatoes, you’re delusional. It’s a stupid, hyperbolic example. Yeah, some Rank 1 players potato every once in a while. Most, though, are actually the best players in the game. I don’t know why that’s so hard for everyone to admit.
That said, you’re not wrong about Rank 1 stats being all that matter. When was this ever even implied? I would imagine the devs look at performance across the entire player base when they’re considering balance changes.
I never said that you will consistently 4k with wraith with no addons (and I said addons, not no perks) but the fact you can says a lot. The reason I bring up rank being considered as what's most considered is because it's the only official metric they have to judge player "skill." That's the whole point. To get ranking to show actual player skill, not a subset of actions that have nothing to do with your actual objective.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/807928#Comment_807928
You can use duration addons to extend that. Thats kinda like saying Iri heads on huntress isnt strong cuz you only get 1 hatchet, and forgetting theres addons to give you more hatchets.
By like 4 seconds max I think.
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@PistolTimb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/807911#Comment_807911
What am I on? She gets free corrupt purge 5 times, letting her snowball quickly. How is it the worst?
It lasts for 20 seconds.
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Paraphrasing from today's stream, "We didn't want people to be staring at the ground for 6 seconds so we added a cooldown."
It's so bad. She has no chance on maps like Yamaoka, Lery's, Hawkins, and she's drastically hindered on LOS areas like jungle gyms and main structures like the Asylum. The reason her basekit should still exist is the ability of a coordinated swf to completely demolish literally over 80% of the roster except her. Yet the devs don't seem to understand just how formidable and broken they can be.
It's a mix of wanting to balance for solo and killers being the lower population.
Personally, I feel survivors should get voice chat WITH the ability to mute specific people or turn it off completely. There people who may argue that 1, that's a huge buff to survivor. To that, I'd say we can finally balance towards swf and not solo, as well as how ranking works with that. Others may say that it'd ruin the experience of the game. You have the ability to turn it all off completely, so you are only taking issue with the fact that you're hindering yourself.
WIth a change to how ranking works, I estimate this change will lead to better teammates at the higher ranks and those who meme around will just be muted and not have a great time. It's a 1v4 game, you're suppose to cooperate with each other to win. This will also allow us to bring back basekit Nurse as well as raise other killers to the level of competency with swf in mind.
Thanks for reading my tedtalk
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Then you have the issue of rank not representing actual skill. The way it is now, if you play enough you'll eventually attain the shiny R1 icon. It's no secret rank doesn't differentiate between actually good players and mediocre players. But letting the mediocre players into the highest rank in the game lets them believe they are good players, which they're not. That also means that they believe that the way they play is what skilled players do, and are less inclined to seek out counterplay out of the traditional loop and pallet play.
This is why I'm still hesitant to take any stats they put out, especially red rank statistics, with any more than a grain of salt. The ranking system doesn't reward you for doing your objective, amd actually PUNISHES you for doing it efficiently. Black pipping and depiping are all to common for people who escape a trial as fast as possible and sacrifice all survivors as fast as possible.
This leads to people thinking they are in the small percentage of players that are skillful, when in truth they are far from it. With that they believe they have an understanding of balance. This is why we get changes that to actual competitive players seem completely ludicrous.
I myself have partaken in more tournaments than I have fingers. Many of them being very high profile such as Space Esports Weekly Ritual (Yeah I know, anniversary sucked, but since marth is making the rules things are better.) Where my team came in first place more than any other team out of the ~10 tournaments they had with 150$ first place prize. We also had won TydeTyme's 750$ stuffed by daylight tourney. My team is Instant Dodge, and were playing this Saturday on Space Esports' twitch for a shot at 300$.
More than likely people had no idea that the competitive scene existed, but it really does show how screwed the game can be. The public doesn't see this, so they don't understand when it collodes with their personal experience. This is the issue that leads to changes this dramatic.
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That is false. The layout of rotten fields is that of a square with it's corners sliced off like a cake. They are covering the same distance.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/798002#Comment_798002
Sorry if that came harsh. No offense, thought you wanted to do this on purpose just to prove a point.
Not sure wether thats a bad thing tbh. Her chase is still better than Spirits. Both have about the same map pressure now. Her having the best chase, along with slightly above average mobility seems more balanced. Previously she had the best chase and the second best map pressure, now the mobility got normalized.
As of the nerf with only taking basekit into account, I disagree. The amount of prediction you need against good players can lead to a very long chase where your predictions are skewed heavily in the survivor's favor. Open maps she still is strong, but on more than half the maps available, your predictions are punished too heavily to a point where it's hard to recover a chase. Spirit in this regard is definitely stronger more consistently.
I get how you feel when some people fake results of tests. I was embarrassed that I had made the mistake in the first place. Apology accepted.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/797988#Comment_797988
No, i meant you did not do a proper test, but purposely slowed her by halfcharging the last one to give false results. Have to point that out, as a scientist, kinda sad to see falsified data to prove points. Whatever, she always was about precise blinks and pinpoint prediction and nothing changed about that. High risk-high reward, and she's still easily the best killer. She sucks on Lerys, true.
Going out of your way to say I purposely falsified the results is a bit declaratory. Even after I readily admitted to the mistake, and was about to edit the post to declare this. The point still stands, her map pressure has been heavily nerfed.
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@Weederick said:
You didn't charge the last blink, she would have reached the end first. On average, it looks like the same travel time for straight lines. She's ahead after blinking, then falls behind while charging the blink.
She looks the same speed as a 115% killer, but can pass through walls which makes her faster ingame.
Yeah that's a factor. Considering she slows down while charging the blink, I'd say it evens out a bit less than 115%. You also got to consider that Nurse requires a ton of prediction if you're playing against competent survivors. This change makes her perhaps the worst killer in the game on maps like Lery's and ESPECIALLY Hawkins. Screw hawkins.
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/796494#Comment_796494
WHO DO YOU PLAY AS AND WHAT RANK ARE YOU GOOD SIR? I just wanna know
I play a variety mostly, but I've played Nurse since her release and probably more of her than most others. I do like Hag, Freddy, and Plague from time to time. Been hovering around R1 for almost 3 years.
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Honestly with how prevalent dc's are for me in the early game, I'm not going to waste my time and the survivor's time giving a bit of leeway. The sooner we're out of that match the better. On occasion I'll do a small bit of farming, but asking me to do it every time that happens is too much.
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The issue is with survivors who are able to make it to LOS and delay a Nurse from being able to blink on them for that duration. After that long, a survivor who understands how to play against nurse can after making it to a LOS blocker (Asylum, Jungle Gyms, indoor maps [screw hawkins]) they will take a route in which the Nurse is unable to follow them with her eyes, making for a prediction blink to catch up being almost entirely impossible. People don't seem to realize how much Nurse relies on prediction, which I might add is never guaranteed. Say you blink inside the asylum and fatigue at the bottom of the stairs while a survivor runs up there and breaks LOS. They have SO MANY pathing options available to them, and you have to make the best educated guess as to what path they took. Often they could have 3+ options, and the longer you're unable to utiilize your double blinks the worse your odds are for making the right choice. In the open, she's still strong (Aside from wonky geometry cucking her often) but indoor maps and maps like Yamoka, Haddonfield, and Asylum she becomes a ton weaker in being able to down.
Thing is, some people seem to just jump to "no counterplay, so I won't put in any effort." When they frankly have it. Is it as big as other killers? No. But if a killer has consistent counterplay that can prolong the chase reliably, what's stopping the other 3 survivors from using it? This isn't a 1v1, but a 1v4. The killer should have a clear and decisive advantage in chases. A survivor's greatest tool against this is collective objective pressure. Working together and understanding when to save and do gens is paramount to a victory. I wish those people would see it from this perspective instead of thinking they should be able to single-handedly hold back a power that should be equivalent to 4 of himself.
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@Boss said:
You have a small chance to hit them while they're in the first bit of animation, and it'll damage them.
Good chance you'll still get stunned, but you'll get damage out of it, so that's pretty neat.
Doesn't work anymore with dedicated servers. Can confirm at least 5 times I've tried and failed to do this whilst before was a 100% success rate.
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Her shards have a more intense aura. Look specifically at her left leg when she's standing still and the big shard should glow, that indicates phasing. I'd get screenshots but I don't have friends.
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@Yohan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/607867#Comment_607867
Real men like all girls.
Real men have pps
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You can't win with these fools. You win, they're angry and tell you to #########, you lose their pompous and still tell you to #########.
It seems like the only winning move is not to play at all.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/754685#Comment_754685
But then you are giving her the extra power just by survivors doing the objective which doesn't make sense. That would be like making survivors take three hits for hooking them and why Mom was a bad perk initially as we all saw the results.
Corrupt purge is the peak of her power. Not cleansing is a counter play used by those confident to run around injured which leaves them with one health state just not vulnerable to going down from a distance.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/754688#Comment_754688
One shot down was in reference to them being broken at the time as most are. Her corrupt purge allows for this from a distance easier than other killers and as you stated a really quick down when they are at full health as her power doesn't need aiming like Huntress it can spam a wide area over and over while the timer is going down.
It's why Myers having a timed one shot doesn't get taken out by pallets as he has a chance to be counter played at most of them at his strongest.
I understand what you mean now. I still don't like using the term instant down still, considering what it actually is. But I get what you mean.
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You can tell whether spirit is phasing or not by simply looking at her. While phasing, her glass shards become more intense and she kinda has this whitish glow around her. I'd post images, but I can't atm. It's pretty distinct if you're looking for it.
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@twistedmonkey said:
I think consistency overall can work well but I do think certain conditions with add-ons could and maybe should change them up.
Take Myers the biggest change undetectable makes is to his EW1 build. A simple fix is to remove undetectable when using those add-ons so it gives more options.
Plague I can understand the consistency with pallets as she has a range attack so to be able to one shot down someone after a stun from a distance makes that stronger and more viable than the standard M1 killers with timed one shot downs like Myers.
It's not a 1shot though. I don't get why people call Plague's corrupt purge a 1shot. It's just that it can be done in quick succession.
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Why is it that instead of tampering with the Nurse's fatigue, you went the route of giving her a cooldown bar and blink recharge? The issue was Nurse being able to down too quickly wasn't it? With this you hinder her map mobility and chase greatly.
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@Monika said:
I see what you're getting at but knocking her down a half second for landing one will actually increase her snowball effect and make chases harder to mind game, and on top of that if anything this makes her skill cap a little higher and fixes the three blink nurse and some of her add-ons that made her increasingly simple for people who knew her ever so slightly.
After factoring in fatigue nerfs it should be as much as it was prenerf. We nerf missed blinks and swings while keeping fatigue on successful ones.