EverflowingRiver
EverflowingRiver
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@dbdVeteran said:
Camping should be toxic reportable behaviour.
Instead is an encouraged tactic, with even builds dedicated to it with specific perks.
And is what you see in every DbD tournament: once a surv is on the hook, that has to die there OR lure 2 other survs to get 3 injuried.
Do the gens and hope for the best.
That's like saying unhooking should be toxic behavior. If they camp, do gens or start bringing BT.
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@Hunkulese said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1004842#Comment_1004842
For a game like this, new players are pretty much everyone who hasn't put in at least 100 hours. And the first tip in pretty much every guide for new players is to get BBQ and Ruin ASAP. It doesn't take very long at all to unlock ruin.
It does take long if you don't want to waste all your bloodpoints on hag just for one perk. If I was starting all over I certainly wouldn't neglect leveling my main killers just for ruin.
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@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
maybe because it isn't just annoying to new players, but to old ones like me. DS was annoying to killers and was changed, instaheals were annoying and changed, and even the instagen add on was annoying and changed due to that reason. they are looking to fix stuff and make the game more fun for everyone, they are working on a rank rework through chapter 15 if you look at their year plan that was released back right before chapter 12 before the freddy rework.
i understand that hex ruin was nice for slowing the game down but it made it very annoying to deal with as someone who has more than 50 days = 1200 hours played on mostly survivor and more recently, killer, with the new doc changes and ruin being changed im gonna start playing more killer since it seems more appealing, alot of stuff is going to be changed in the new year to help both sides.
this new change is not bad, it will just have them see how messed up the game is and fix the core problem which is that there are only one main objective for survivors which can cause killers to get easily gen-rushed. most of the problem is due to matchmaking so once it gets its rework everything should be almost good.
Maybe you are right, but that's not what they said. They specifically stated it was to help new survivors. The OPs point was to show new players probably won't encounter ruin often. So either their (the devs) reasoning was worded poorly or disingenuous.
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There is also the shrine but that costs iridescent shards and luck for ruin to be there. I like your overall point though
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@Psypho_Diaz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1003295#Comment_1003295
No they didn't, and apparently calling them out on their illiteracy gets you a warning.
#Murica where uneducated.... Sorry non-factual opinions still hold weight.
We all read the posts. Just because people proved you wrong and countered your argument doesn't mean you should be salty. And you should put respect on America's name
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@Almo said:
I'll just repeat that when we say we wish to "reduce frustration" against X, that does not mean "make X easier to play against." Less frustrating is not necessarily easier. Often it means shifting the focus from a mechanic to a strategy.
Notably new Ruin is actually really hard on new Survivors. They have no idea what's happening.
Then why does Merriam Webster list an easy as am antonym for frustrate?
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If you don't want to bring borrowed time that's on you.
And for the record, I am also a very wealthy engineer who codes mind breaking programs everyday for an exuberant rate 🙄
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@Zamblot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/996266#Comment_996266
To be fair the guy who said this game is bad for new players is completely right. Ive got a few friends into the game but most of them don't play because the game normally lasts ages with them and they repeatedly die at the end, even if they are playing alone and not with me. I get a learning curve but the game is just so killer sided in the beginning. Are you saying that there should only be a learning curve for survivors and one that's so hard and boring because you never escape that everyone quits? Im a good player now and enjoy the game somewhat but if my friend hadn't nagged me it wouldn't have taken me long to quit
I'm not saying there should only be a learning curve for survivors. I'm saying that even if it is a bit harder to begin with then they should power through it. Not every game is like COD where you can pick up a controller and instantly be good.
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@yandere777 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/999330#Comment_999330
Yeah I've read them. And I've read more posts that they've made. The comments and posts I've read made me see more causes to the ruin change. One being gens and how it is difficult to monitor them. Ruin made a lot of stats fuzzy and hard to see so don't just read one post and take the wording at face value. Sure doc was annoying to play against and we all know how obvious they made that. But they also buffed him by taking away his stance change, on command madness tier ups, a hell of a lot easier to get his shocks and wack people, and he got chase music.
I am 100% certain we don't have all the pieces to fill the puzzle of this update but if you stop looking at the middle and start seeing the background you will ne able to see there was more thought than "he aint fun tio play as"
You are so dense. They doubled down on their reasoning in multiple threads. There is no bigger picture here. Sometimes people just do what they want. In this case it's tank their own game.
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@yandere777 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/999303#Comment_999303
So they've stated that they want to only balance around survivor fun and will screw over killer every chance they get? If not then you are just one of the many people who inflated this to the extremes.
Sure all of stuff recently been sucking for killers but by no means does it mean the devs are only in favor for survivors. Unless you got a quote or link to where i can find this definitive proof, i'mma think this way.
Just read the patch notes. They said all the new changes are so survivors are less "frustrated." It doesn't get more biased than that.
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Well played lol
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@LustForBP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/120458/the-devs-dont-listen-wrong
Personally, idgaf. I’ve played plenty of games over the years, never paid attention to Patch Notes or “buffs/nerfs”.
its a game. Not my life. If you hate the developer for the game they’ve created and altered, move on to a new one.
Also, you can’t build a player base if new players aren’t welcome. The majority of this community despises anything that assists new players; which is why most of my IRL friends won’t touch this game. It’s unfriendly to newbies.
Heaven forbid there is a learning curve involved.
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@Peppa_Pigsaw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/995830#Comment_995830
"We think its a good idea despite a large portion of the paying playerbase telling us it isn't."
The playerbase is literally how you get to pay for your bills and other necessaties, if you don't listen to them, guess what? We LEAVE. So you DONT get anymore cash from the players who left.
The sheer incompetence behind this decision is astounding. You're literally ignoring one of the most basic lessons of business.
Keep your customers happy.
I've brought this up before only to be told by other players that customers are not entitled to an opinion just because they paid for the game.
You are 100% correct though
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@TheBean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/996114#Comment_996114
GAH!
Such a mean post... You sure you aren't a killer main? :)
If you play at rank 1 survivor, then how much does ruin actually affect you? Do you just plow through ruin or go looking for the totem? If you just plow through it, then you see why the Ruin change doesn't affect you. If you go looking for the totem... Well you can still do that, once you touch a gen for a second, and stop you'll see if they have Ruin. So.. basically nothing changes for you as survivor.
You rarely play killer... So why does it matter? Just for the odd time you do?
BOOYAH!!!
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People should look at it differently...
Maybe the Devs want to see how things go in Live.
Maybe there is other ideas they have to go along with the Ruin change, but are holding back to see how the first change goes.
Yeah that was such a mean post (sarcasm if you could not tell)
He cares because the state of the game is being changed. Just because he doesn't main killer doesn't mean he wants the game to be one sided
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@TheBean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/996027#Comment_996027
Yeah but you can't sit there for an hour doing that. Sad fact.
After 20 minutes it is time to finish the match. If you couldn't get those survivors in the 20 minutes, sitting on those gens for another 20 minutes most likely won't change that.
I would gladly sit for an hour just to secure an extra kill or two at that point
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@TheBean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/995958#Comment_995958
Actually the 3 gen strategy itself, isn't bannable.
It becomes bannable when no action is being taken on the killers side to push the game forward, as in just sitting on the gens not committing to any chases to finish the match. Equally problematic would be if the survivors decided to all sit on the other side of the map not trying to work on the gens. However I think this falls mostly on the killer, since they need to kill survivors to finish the match, where the survivors end up becoming helpless and give up.
Eventually someone has to do something.
Of course it is the killer's responsibility to move the game forward 🙄. If the survivors didn't want to 3 gen themselves then they should've played better. If I'm the killer here I'm not committing to a chase just so they can finish the gens.
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The worst part of all of this though is these comments won't be looked at or responded to. I'm not even going to tag devs in this one because what's the point. They just addressed the last sentence of one post that was several lines long.
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@Dr_Trauts said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/995830#Comment_995830
So new ruin should help later in the game? But with it still being a hex, it will not only not be useless early game as you describe, but more often than not it won't be around late game at all!
And surely by stating killers aren't supposed to protect early gens, its promoting 3 gen-strats, which im sure you've also previously stated is something the devs didnt want to happen. (as this is actually a bannable offence). And if you say you don't promote 3 gen-strats in this way, then your simply advocating for the killer to lose as certain maps have become so big, killers that lack mobility simply can't traverse the distances without a generator being completed.
In addition, games will go by much faster, giving less time for the killers to actually earn the other 3 emblems they are to focus on. Making the game as a whole harder as killers have the same stuff to do, with a lot less time to do it.
This change to hex:ruin with no compensation to the generators themselves is ludicrous. As it shows, once again, that the devs have sided with "making survivors lives easier" whilst simultaneously making killers jobs that much harder, with no consideration given on how this would positively effect killer gameplay!
Also good point. Good luck getting hook and sacrifice points when the gens are done in 5 minutes
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@TheBean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/995912#Comment_995912
I'll give these a shot..
- How is any different than now. High ranks have that issue as killer, ruin didn't prevent it.
- Perks for each side aren't a tit4tat situation. Ruin doesn't translate to DS and Borrow Time...In fact the 2 survivor perks you've mentioned have had changes several times over the years. How killer "mains" forget.
- I think the PTB was more about the Doctor changes. They did listen to feedback, as they probably are changing the cooldown from doing the blast to when you can hit.
1. Ruin was one of the main ways to slow gens down. This is common sense. I personally didn't like the perk when I played but there is a reason 45% of killers used it.
2. They relate in terms of devs logic. If you actually read their posts and mine you will see that. They claim ruin didn't require skill to use. My point is neither do several survivor perks. By their own logic they should be nerfed. And to a certain extent a "tit4tat" is necessary to maintain balance.
3. So they might make one adjustment to PTB doctor, color me unimpressed. You miss the fact that the doctor changes are insignificant compared to the ruin ones and the outrage around them.
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Nice. I forgot to mention that
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@Almo said:
This is why the Gatekeeper emblem was changed with Ruin. In terms of emblem points, it's no longer important to keep 5 gens up the first two minutes to get all those points.
In terms of the game's power curve, it's expected the first couple gens go fast. 4 Survivors, one Killer... several chases to get one Survivor out. But as the number of gens to patrol decreases, it becomes easier for the Killer to patrol, and their power rises. As the Survivors die off, the Killer's power increases more as there are fewer Survivors to work on gens.
Old Ruin gave people who depended on it the idea that it should not require input from the Killer to keep the first couple gens from popping in the first couple minutes. But that is not how we intend the game to work. My apologies for leaving old Ruin in place as long as we did; it was hard to find a good update, and we knew there would be a huge outcry from the players when we did the change, no matter how good it was. The moment I joined the project in August 2018 I knew Ruin was something I wanted to change. It took a lot of time and a lot of discussion with the other designers to find something worthy to replace it.
New Ruin requiring Killers to act in order to get its benefit is by design. Its lack of large impact in the first minutes is by design. Its subtlety is by design (by subtle I mean that one of its large benefits isn't mentioned in the text: no need to spend time kicking gens). Because we recognized Ruin's impact on the Gatekeeper emblem and Killers' ability to pip, we made the alteration to that emblem.
We can easily understand players' frustrations with this deep change to one of their core tools. But the opinion of all of us on the design team is that the new Ruin will make the game healthier overall. Our willingness to stand by it in the face of such anger over the change is an indication of our confidence in the new design and the benefits it will have in the long run.
3 problems with this post.
1. Even if the gate keeper points are changed, gens still get done too quick. You say killer's power grows as gens are done and the first few are expected to go quick. You are assuming easy chases here. If a survivor is half good at looping this leaves three others to hammer out gens. Unless you tunnel and kill one survivor straight away there is no way for killer to win.
2. You say ruin was too passive and required no killer action. What about DS and borrowed time? These perks require zero skill on the survivor part and encourage reckless play by survivors. Where is the fairness?
3. The most important point: what is the purpose of a PTB if you don't care about the feedback? This is twice now you have said the team expected outrage and are going through anyway. That does not come across as confidence, it seems arrogant.
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@Almo said:
I've been in a few games where new Ruin stayed up the whole match (both PTB and internal tests). It has a humongous effect on the game if it remains. It's just too much power not to be a Hex.
One thing I think people are missing is they consider themselves, their gen, and the Killer. 1v1 it would not be that good. But when Ruin affects several gens at once because there are more than one Survivor, it's can be a huge amount of regression.
If the Survivors are three-genned, its effect is really nasty. No need to kick gens while pushing Survivors away from them.
No one is saying ruin can't last til the end game, it just doesn't more often. Cherry picking a perfect scenario where the survivors 3 gen themselves doesn't change the fact that with new ruin they most likely got to that point in under 5-7 minutes. Even assuming there are only 2 survivors left at that point, one chase allows the other survivor to finish that gen up.
Overall I just don't see how this is a powerful perk considering it is unlikely to last long and really doesn't punish survivors not in a chase
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/991637#Comment_991637
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/991645#Comment_991645
Can't both be true?
His numbers back it up his idea. For every 4 survivors they need 1 killer, so that means for every killer that decides he quits that takes a game away from 4 survivors. To compound it, for every killer that switched to survivor and is also red rank there that takes a game away from 5 people in a way because he's eating up a survivor slot as well.
I also think matchmaking is super bugged and terrible right now which is also a cause. I am beyond upset that BHVR hasn't addressed this issue since their stream a month ago saying they were looking into it.
That's fair enough. I just think it's too much coincidence that all these changes to killers like nurse and legion and now ruin happen coincides with longer survivor times.
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Everyone seems to forget it's 4 on 1. Killers had longer ques earlier because there was small lack of survivors. Now that people are leaving killer for survivor this has shifted. It's simple math.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/991572#Comment_991572
No, because there's absolutely no reason to think that when the matchmaking problem exists. There's absolutely no reason that would happen when mediocre killers can absolutely make it to red ranks.
When playerbase starts dropping you can bring that up. Until then nah.
No? So it's absolutely not possible? It sounds like you have something of a bias. You are quick to say killers are overreacting but won't look at problems other than the overall matchmaking issue. It's harder for killer to pip and just because player base isn't dropping doesn't mean everyone is ranking up to red rank.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/991549#Comment_991549
When you stop with the theatrics and start analyzing the facts I'll talk to you. This is a matchmaking problem as anyone who wants to see it instead of whining can see. I haven't heard of a single killer player who stopped playing the game besides faceless names in the internet which is worth just as much as my anecdotal evidence that everything is fine.
Did you ever stop to think the match making problem can be based (at least partially) on a lack of red rank killers? My guess is no
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/991497#Comment_991497
No, that's what happens when matchmaking is horrible. There are still PLENTY of red rank killers because ranking up is still easy on both sides.
Stop putting everything in the "killers are bad waaaah" echo chamber we don't need this kind of unproductive take here
You can continue to bury your head in the sand or worship the ground the devs walk on while the exodus of killers persists.
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That's what happens when killer is nerfed over and over
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Watch out, people will say nurse and spirit barely got nerfed and that freddy was too good. I agree 100% though
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How can someone produce a good product if they don't use the product enough to know it's ins and outs? The answer is they can't. Without devs playing the game at a certain level, there is no way they can balance effectively. And if the devs don't put a lot of time into understanding the game, that shows a lack of passion towards the product.
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@DawnMad said:
Can we not come to conclusions not even a day after PTB is released? They said the Ruin was fine and not gonna have a change a few hours after PTB was live, so they were mostly based on their internal testing and the complaints in the forums was something that always happened after meta perks like DS had gotten nerfed anyways.
Now that they saw the actual outrage, when the PTB shows how the killer performance actually is with the Ruin changes, they can balance it accordingly. If its something different than the tests they have done, and it will most likely be, they will likely do something about it.
If they are just going to go off their own tests why have a ptb at all
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976958#Comment_976958
The thread topic is about a nonexistent statement made about the PTB, when the statement that you screenshotted was made before the PTB was up and was referring to BHVR's own internal tests. Disliking the Ruin/Doc changes is whatever, I don't like the Ruin change either (at least, not without wide-sweeping map changes). A few specifics about the Doc change kinda seem wack too (madness 3 to madness 1 change, 3 second delay between shock therapy and next action).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976962#Comment_976962
Subjective interpretation, not fact. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes, not even the Fog Whisperers know 100%, much as people like to regurgitate their statements about how they provided feedback that BHVR didn't implement. I'm not going to deny that it can feel like they don't care sometimes, but constantly stating they don't as though it's fact has proven to do nothing but get people riled up in the past. I'm especially annoyed when people say that they stated that they don't care, then fail to provide an example of where/when/who said that. It's basically slander.
If they release a statement saying they are happy with the changes and expect outrage for it, and then keep the changes, how is this not ignoring feedback. This was done with nurse, spirit, legion, and now ruin. Not once have k seem the devs scale back changes from the ptb into the actual game. Also, it's very hard to have faith in internal tests. I'm not accusing them if being dishonest, but there is a lack of transparency that is concerning.
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@Aura_babyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976578#Comment_976578
They don't ignore feedback.
It's extremely tiring to answer 90 salty threads all saying the same thing
Find me 3 serious dev responses to the feedback in all the new ruin threads. I'll wait. The only one I found says the devs like the change even though they know it will get negative feedback.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976993#Comment_976993
Every reputable player I've seen talk about it has said it was a net buff but ok
I could be wrong, but I believe the devs said it was a nerf. How can ruining perk synergy for the sake of a slightly faster vault be a buff? Sorry if I don't believe your unnamed reputable players
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976945#Comment_976945
Sorry, I'm talking about the nerfs, like Nurse and Spirit had,which were deserved. Not about the Legion adjustments to make sure they didn't just down survivors without counterplay,which were even more deserved.
I'm talking about the last 2-3 legion nerfs, not the original one that was needed. He has been buried deep which was uncalled for.
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@TicTokCringe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/972683#Comment_972683
Inexperienced survivors. Learn how to win without ruin
Read the dev notes. They say outright the change is because new players can hit a button properly.
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They don't say it outright. It is in their actions
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976038#Comment_976038
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976384#Comment_976384
This.
Make sure you read before you get outraged yeah?
Im genuinely confused what you mean. I've read the changes, the reasoning behind the changes, and the dev posts about how they like the changes. What else should I read?
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@PBL187 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/975650#Comment_975650
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/975898#Comment_975898
Exactly! Why keep moaning about it? Without even giving it a chance?
I thought you were done talking?
@Huff I called someone toxic directly first, fair enough, but it was in response to someone else calling the killer community toxic.
@gantes you are obviously trolling. All killer nerfs were needed? Legion didn't deserve what happened to them. And it's not questionable behavior to inform the devs that there are consequences to their actions.
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@SpacemanOnTheCouch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/975939#Comment_975939
So as long as they're happy, screw the fans / customers, right?
To me, that's what it seems like. Either that or a severe lack of experience actually playing the game.
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@SpacemanOnTheCouch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/975859#Comment_975859
Hi,
What are you going to do about Ruin? You should also know that this change is not working.
There is the devs response to ruin
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What's more pathetic is complaint about someone complaining online, then calling them a #########. And I don't care if you got lucky and got into matches quickly. Those matches were over too soon, most likely as a result of the ruin nerf.
I love talking to keyboard warriors like yourself, it reminds me who really is a "no lifer" (your words, not mine). Thanks for keeping it civil young man.
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@PBL187 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/975717#Comment_975717
Dead by boredom of toxic killers always bitching because for once they have to put just a little bit of effort into something. Btw, 2 games have loaded for me since your whining posts, so you're already wrong. RIP. Hopefully one day u will leave your momma's basement, but I doubt it tbh. If u ever do, PLEASE don't go on a killing spree 😕
And my posts were roughly 12-15 minutes apart. Hope you had fun with your 7 minute games
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@PBL187 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/975717#Comment_975717
Dead by boredom of toxic killers always bitching because for once they have to put just a little bit of effort into something. Btw, 2 games have loaded for me since your whining posts, so you're already wrong. RIP. Hopefully one day u will leave your momma's basement, but I doubt it tbh. If u ever do, PLEASE don't go on a killing spree 😕
What are you, 12 years old? All you do is go on about my mother and using phrases like "toxic killer." When you grow up maybe we can have a real discussion. Until then look at the numerous threads filled with people unhappy about wait times and the ruin changes. Undoubtedly you will just call everyone else toxic as well though
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@JayDoesGames said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/975717#Comment_975717
Speaking to you is as boring tbh. Suck up the changes, we all have to.
That's the thing, we don't have to. But little you will continue to suck up all the crap and then thank the devs for it. That's what this whole thread (and many others) are all about.
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@PBL187 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/975598#Comment_975598
Spoken like a toxic killer who only plays killer because of mummy issues
Good one. You really got me there. I hope you also enjoy your long lobby times in BHVRs new game, Dead by Boredom
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@JayDoesGames said:
Ok bye then. The less toxic killers the better.
Who are you going to play against when all the killers leave? Spoken like a toxic survivor
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@thefallenloser said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/974840#Comment_974840
You need to go back. You're bringing up the stats about Nurse in relation to Spirit. You're the one that doesn't remember what was posted lol.
You're literally the one that bought up the stats stating insinuating Nurse was the worst killer. I mentioned Spirit being one of the best killers initially, before these stats were even mentioned. I don't understand how you don't even understand your own discussion.
"You're still straw-manning. I said nothing about me playing against Spirit" this is a quote from you. On page 5 you go on and on about how hard spirit is to play against.
The only thing you have said that is accurate this while thread is that this should be about ruin, so I'll give you that one.
The overall point you are missing though is this ruin change is yet another pointless killer nerf (like the nurse and spirit ones)
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@ASAPTurtle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/972683#Comment_972683
Yeah, because their mind is balancing around rank 15s not red ranks. Did you not see how the post was worded?
I read it. I'm well aware of who they are balancing for
