Esheon
Esheon
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/903555#Comment_903555
ffs at my rank it's more like I hook someone, they deliverance off when I leave while everyone else stays on gens cause SWF, if I was to go back and down them I would get hit by DS and they would run me around for another gen, and as soon as I tried to pick them up I would get flashlight stunned by a coordinated SWF teammate and another gen would be done.
Where are all these hook suicides people talk about, I could sure use some./
Well, I mostly play survivor so my killer rank is around 14. At survivor rank 7 I don't see them as much, but there were several last night.
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Well, what I saw last night was mostly "Oh, I got hooked first? I'll just try to Kobe, and then not struggle."
In fact, in three of my killer games I ended up letting the last two survivors farm after the first two hooked did that.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/901071#Comment_901071
Firstly I do play killer.
Secondly, I wouldn't call that good evidence. It's purely anecdotal and is not a representation of the entire killer player-base's experiences. I can confirm that I have no problem with Decisive Strike and as a killer avoid it by not tunneling. I only ever am stunned by it if I tunnel.
That last sentence is BS. Night before last I was stunned by DS after downing and hooking two other survivors. After the second hook, I saw one of the two Megs running in to unhook and grabbed her out of the unhook animation. I was stunned by DS and both hooks were rescued.
I posted in another DS thread about a game where I got THREE other survivors downed (thanks to Haunted Grounds) after the DS user was unhooked, and still got "punished for tunneling" even though I slugged 1 and hooked 2 other survivors before going after the DS user.
DS does have issues. It grants 60 seconds of immunity from pickup, and good survivors will use those 60 seconds well. Hell, *I* use DS on survivor, and I've used those tactics. Intentionally get downed in front of the hook so I can DS and rescue with BT? Jump in a locker when I'm about to be downed, forcing the killer to either eat the DS or leave me unslugged? Bodyblock a chainsaw at the exit gate? Sure, I've got DS so the killer can't pick me up anyway.
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@MisterCremaster said:
I
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/901358#Comment_901358
Why select any at all? You have the tier unlocked, you can complete them. Just make sure they can connect to the end in order to advance. You'll still need to target ones as you progress, since it's unlikely they can all get done randomly.
Simple. They don't want an entire tome to be completed in a few matches.
If you were able to progress all of the challenges in a tier at once, you could have completed the survivor challenges in the first tome in 2 or 3 games by playing Claudette with Empathy, This Is Not Happening, and Plunderers Instinct, leaving one perk slot open for whatever meta perk you wanted. In fact, you could have theoretically completed everything except "Craft Time's Over" and "Bloody Rewards" in a single match by using a purple coin offering.
Same thing with the killer challenges, but even easier since you only have to equip Brutal Strength on the Trapper, leaving you 3 slots for meta perks. You could theoretically complete everything except "Reverent" and "Bloody Rewards" in a single match.
Now that I've typed all that, I realize I may be reading you wrong there. If by "tier" you mean that you can complete any perk that would be selectable in the current system (i.e. you still have to progress down the paths), then I could get behind that idea.
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I can play for 4-5 hours straight against purple/red rank killers and maybe see one or two moris. I have a decent amount saved up on my killers, and I almost never use them.
If I happen to put TTV anywhere in my name, though...
Even when I do get moried, I either spectate or just move on to the next game. Sometimes you get knocked out early, it's no big deal.
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@Mooshroome64 said:
Equip multiple at once, or at least have a killer and survivor challenge equipped at the same time so there is no switching between just to play the other role
This right here. Allow us to accept 1 killer and 1 survivor challenge. The neutral challenges could count as either, so you could have killer/survivor, killer/neutral, or neutral/survivor selected.
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Doesn't matter what the question was.
Hag is the answer.
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@aregularplayer said:
I just played against a rank 9 killer and I'm rank 3. I was playing solo. Not everybody better than you is abusing matchmaking...
This. I had a game at rank 8 solo where the killer was rank 2 and the other 3 survivors were 15, 15, and 19.
The killer was convinced that I was swf with the rest of them, but I wasn't.
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@oxygen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/899271#Comment_899271
+1 to this, all the moonlight offerings actually.
Haddonfield just looked aesthetically amazing with Brightest moonlight for example. If they were still in the game and supported by all the new maps I wonder how many of the newer maps would look with different levels of lightning.
Gods no. Shelter Woods was horrific with a New Moon Bouquet, and could you imagine Sanctum of Wrath made even darker? I had old Lightborn on Shelter Woods with a New Moon once, and I literally couldn't see ANYTHING.
I honestly can't think of anything that was removed that I actually want back. I mean, vacuum pallets were fun as survivor, but SO broken. I definitely wouldn't want old mori back either, and NONE of the Hag changes should EVER be reverted.
I think some of the changes need some tweaks, for sure. I think the Styptic should give the full 15 seconds of BT instead of just 8, as one example.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/899330#Comment_899330
Well if that's the case than please do file a bug report on it in the "Bug Reports" Sub-forum... or file a ticket with the support team at this link.
Here's the support link: https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us
If this is truly the case than please do send one in for either options... this wasn't listed in the patch notes... so they might not be aware that it's ALL charge add-ons and not just med-kit charge add-ons... (Or they do now but the patch notes are not updated... Or they are, but I didn't see the update if they were).
Please do run some tests with previous patch charge add-ons... maybe it's true... who knows!
That is a very annoying system for bug reports, but it's submitted.
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I think it's all charge addons for any items. I was curious about it last night, so i did a game with a brown toolbox and the brown "Scraps" addon (total charges: 95). I finished a gen by myself, losing 5% to one "normal" Ruin skillcheck. Just to be safe, I stopped working for 3 secs after that check to avoid using charges without making progress. It should have taken 84/95 charges to finish, leaving 11 charges on the toolbox. Instead, the toolbox was consumed just before I finished the gen.
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Feelsbadman
I'm all about that 1500 extra points.
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Hag: P3 head, red dress body, the new blighted arm.
Doctor: Hallowed Blight from last year, project awakening stick.
Kate: Country Girl head/jeans, P1 slip dress.
Dwight: Fog Traveler's head, P1 shirt, dark slacks I got from somewhere
Claudette: P3 head, producer's jacket and jeans
Jake: full Fog Traveler's outfit.
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That does make sense.
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Sure, most of last night I played like a rank 20. Sometimes you just get derpy and can't pull out of it.
Oddly enough, I'm derpier when I'm SWF than I am solo.
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@Cayde1342 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/110760/keys-to-escape-shouldnt-exist
I agree. However to avoid a total uproar. I say if you use a key to escape the hatch closes on your way out. Preventing others from using it
That would prevent anyone from completing one of the hardest survivor achievements in the game.
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@yoi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/898160#Comment_898160
may be u but 5 of 10 games i get a lobby with a key, at least 5 of 10. but i dont get moried as usual as i get keys in my lobbys. full of biased swf with 2 toolboxes and a key .
There is currently a challenge to deplete multiple keys. That may be why you're seeing more than normal.
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Hmm, I remember that match differently... I was the Ace, and I remember being slugged along with another survivor twice on the basement stairs while you went across the map to down the streamer.
I don't bother with chat. I give a gg if i had fun, nothing if I didn't. No point in starting anything unless it involves actual cheating, and this didn't.
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@kid187em said:
Just an update for people who think the basement glitch isn't a game breaking glitch i played about 15 matches of which i ended up in the basement 8 times. Killers know a basement hook is an instakill right now. The other 7 matches saw the killers using ebony moris making it a very ######### night. I did escape twice but between sweaty mori killers and the basement this game is becoming quite unplayable.
My favourite last night was the one where the killer hooked someone else in the basement first. They got the bug, and the killer ignored them for the rest of the match. OK, I can deal with that... but the guy he was SWFed with decided to lead him around the map while the 4th survivor was doing... something... in a corner with no gens. I almost finished the last gen three times, but kept getting chased away. 5 minutes after I died the last gen STILL wasn't done, one survivor was STILL leading the other by the hand, and I watched the killer completely ignore the stationary bugged survivor to down his friend instead.
After the match "oh, there's a basement bug? I didn't know!" Yeah, right.
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@xCarrie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/895170#Comment_895170
Oooh yeah I can see that being a problem. Mori’s should honestly be one click instead of holding to activate. That alone would solve it.
This is one of those "I agree, but..." opinions. I can see a survivor spinning around over a slug trying to force that "one click" melee hit to be a "one click" mori instead, giving them up to 14 seconds (clown) to run away.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/894924#Comment_894924
"There was no misplay in what the OP describes."
Yes, he did. The killer doesn't come to a random corner and start checking lockers for no reason. One of them either loud jumped into a locker or left scratch marks. If either was him, misplay. If he saw the other survivor do either of those, his misplay was then jumping into a locker as well because she should know the killer will see scratch marks or have heard the jump.
Choosing not to act differently when another survivor makes a mistake is a misplay because it is not adapting to the situation.
"you can't fault someone for not bringing a perk they may not even have."
I am not faulting him for not bringing a perk. I am faulting him for his misplay and choosing to DC instead of adapting next time. Telling him he can run DS for a tunnel situation was simply a recommendation for a situation he finds annoying.
Obviously you read a different OP than I did.
"As the killer came to the area where we were hiding the other survivor jumps out of the locker..."
The killer wasn't "checking lockers for no reason". They werent checking lockers at all. When other other survivor saw the killer, THEN they jumped out of the locker and started pointing.
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@Blueberry said:
Just so you know, the devs have stated that admitting on the forums to doing bannable offenses can get you banned. Idk how strict that is in regards to DC'ing but it's been said.
Also, that is no reason to DC. You made misplays and could have even run DS to counter that.
You're claiming the OP "made misplays"?
There was no misplay in what the OP describes. Hiding in a locker is a valid tactic. Everything else described was done by other people, and you can't fault someone for not bringing a perk they may not even have.
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@Venom368 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/886073#Comment_886073
I don't know where you are getting the punished part because i have not mentioned it anywhere.
Killers with instadowns have been constantly punished
the current issue that every instadown killer is punished
...?
you'll depip if you are in the red ranks, black pip at best if you kill every survivor just by only using hillbilly's chainsaw.
It's a way to balance the power of their insta-down capability... A chainsaw isn't exactly hard to hit, and it would literally just carry everybody to rank 1 if it counted as 2 hits. The only emblem this even affects is the Brutality category where you get 1 point for each hit on a survivor. No other emblem is effected by using chainsaw only. You will not depip unless you do poorly in the other 3 categories as well... Throw in a few M1s as Billy and you're good to go.
Ackshually...
It affects Chaser as well. Downing a survivor in 2 hits means you won 2 chases. Downing them in 1 hit means you only won 1 chase.
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It's listed under Known Issues, so it's a bug. Nemesis should proc the aura reading on any change of obsession.
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@oxygen said:
Yeah I don't see why moris are still a channeled action. I don't think I've ever actually cancelled a mori once starting to channel it for any actual "tactical" reason, and I've never seen another killer do so either.
And it's not like the ability to hit a survivor on a hook which was actually involved in the whole "unhook tech" thing survivors could do, the ability to cancel a mori and mori spamming in particular has no purpose other than griefing.
I have canceled a mori when I saw someone moving in to teabag the soon-to-be corpse... once. I would consider that a valid reason to cancel the mori channeling.
That being said, I agree that it would be better to just have the mori happen immediately. I've been mori-spammed a few times and it sucks. The bleed-out timer seems to pause while the mori is being channeled, so it takes a LOT longer to bleed out.
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@DocFabron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873044#Comment_873044
@lunaticlifter to be fair, I haven’t played in a little over a month thanks to moving and my new internet being a pain to get installed. But I remember BNP’s being ass after the nerf. I haven’t gotten to try the instaheal.
BNPs are not nearly as good as they used to be, of course. They're still decent, though. If you make both skillchecks, you turn a 80-second solo gen into a ~60-second solo gen. If you have a 4-BNP SWF you can have 2 gens finished in under 30 seconds (2 survivors per gen, 5 seconds for the BNPs then 22 seconds to finish the other half of the gen). Personally, I find them more useful later in the game to quickly finish off a gen while the killer chases the person who was working on it.
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@Widowmaker8197 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/107666/ds-rewards-failure-just-like-noed
Oh my God. You killer mains will never understand it's an ANTI TUNNELING PERK. For the love of God stop tunneling and you won't get DS'd!!! It's that simple! Smh.
This is from an actual match: I hook Dwight, Kate comes to the rescue before i even leave the hook. I hit Kate once, she unhooks, I down and hook her. Dwight fakes the unhook, I hit him, and of course BT. He unhooks and i down him.
Now there are two survivors I can't pick up for a full minute. I leave Dwight by the hook, after drawing a magic Dorito on the ground. Kate runs away. I move toward the gen that just popped and find Jake cleansing Haunted Grounds. I let him finish, then down him, hook him, and trap the hook.
My Dwight trap goes off and I teleport to find Feng healing Dwight. I down her and hook her. Kate unhooks Jake so I teleport and down her. Dwight gets up with Unbreakable and unhooks Feng while I'm picking up Kate, whereupon I get DSed in what had to be the very last second of her DS timer.
I hooked all four survivors in under a minute. Just FYI... That's the exact opposite of tunneling. Then in seconds I go from 2 hooked plus 1 slug to all four unhooked... because "iT's An AnTi TuNnElLiNg PeRk".
The way DS is now, it encourages stupid plays because the survivors know they can get away with it. Without DS and BT, either Dwight never would have unhooked Kate or he would have immediately replaced her on the hook. Without DS, Dwight would have been hooked instead of lying on the ground in front of Feng's hook waiting to use Unbreakable. With just a shortened DS timer, Kate would have replaced Jake on the hook.
I am in no way saying we should get rid of DS, that would be silly. It is needed for ACTUAL cases of tunneling. Personally, I would like to see one of two possibilities:
1.) The DS timer loses 10 seconds every time another survivor is hooked while the perk is active and the DS user is not slugged.
OR
2.) The DS timer loses 5 seconds every time another survivor is hit while the perk is active and the DS user is not slugged.
I think either of those options is pretty fair.
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@hocrux said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/859989#Comment_859989
So let me get this straight.... You can only get better by going against people worst then you? That's delusional, you need to face the best and get used to high rank gameplays and learn to adapt/counter high rank gameplays
To an extent, you're correct... but there's a limit on that. You learn best from going up against people who are slightly or moderately better than you. If you're completely outclassed, you'll just get stomped without learning anything.
Say you take a kid who has just started playing basketball and put him up against LeBron playing his best. What is the kid going to learn from that?
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I've intentionally DC'ed twice this year. I don't like to DC, so it takes a lot to make me do it.
1.) Leatherface slugged everybody before the first gen was done and was waiting for us to bleed out without hooking anyone. If you want to derank, just play Wraith and hide in a corner FFS. At least that way the survivors can get some points.
2.) Huntress hit me once through the shack wall, then again through the map wall. Then she facecamped me, I got rescued anyway (without BT, after reaching struggle) and she tunneled me down, hitting me with ANOTHER hatchet through a solid brick wall. After I fell from the second and third hits, my feet were a full body-length beyond the edge of the wall. Overall I like the dedi servers, but that was some serious BS.
Note that in both cases, my DCing had no effect on the other survivors. I was dead on hook with the Huntress, and I waited long enough to see if anyone had Unbreakable on the Bubba.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866570#Comment_866570
Yup. I actually think that buffing Hag to 112.5%ms and increasing her trap range would make her more fun for everyone. She's perceived as unfun because of her weaknesses, not her strengths. I don't want to be campy, but base trap range is too limited to cover even half of a map, and she's way too slow to chase outside of her web. The reduced speed curve coming out of traps makes them just ok at some loops. But trapping loops during chase is ineffective most of the time.
Hehe. If you think the current speed curve coming out of a teleport is bad, be thankful you didn't play her back when she first came out. A full second (maybe longer, i cant remember) of not being able to move at all after teleporting was NOT fun.
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I don't care if I get moried. Hell, I usually get a few bucks worth of "RIP" cheers in chat when a mori comes down on my head. I prefer the killers who wait until I'm on my third hook before deploying the mori, of course.
Actually, one of my favourite moments from this game was getting moried by a tombstone piece Myers within the first few minutes of the match. I did it to myself, TBH. I was cleansing Ruin, I knew he was in T2 EW, and I saw him stalking toward me. I decided to keep cleansing and just take the hook "for the team". I got rid of Ruin, but exited the match seconds later. I stayed around to the end to GG that killer.
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@Milo said:
Coils?
I think he means the bluish icon for archive/rift experience.
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@Avocet said:
Thing is, a rank 10 killer player with a level 1 killer character will still destroy beginners. Same is true in the other direction.
Edit: Also the queues for grey rank killers are terrible even with the current matchmaking where you get matched with up to rank 7 (in my experience).
Yep on the queues. I haven't played killer very much for a LONG time, so I got dropped down to rank 18. Last night i did a bunch of matches as killer and got matched with survivors from rank 16 to 10 usually, with a rank 6 in one game (they completely stomped me in a chase, of course).
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"Completely Deplete 6 Medkits" finished after 3 brown medkits for me.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/842887#Comment_842887
Well, your Trapper will have Agitation. Or is exactly Trapper the one where you did not spend any BPs so far?
You know, I am a complete idiot sometimes. For some bizarre reason I thought Agitation was a generic perk, but now I realize its a Trapper teachable. That of course explains why I don't have it on any other killers.
Obviously, I don't play Trapper much :p
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I have a personal rule where i have to use two teachable perks from the survivor I'm currently playing, so I use a different build for each survivor. Any build can be useful in solo as long as you adapt your playstyle to the build. That being said...
Lithe + Dance With Me = free escape as long as you can break LoS within a few seconds of vaulting. Add Quick & Quiet for even more "where did they go, George?" moments.
Bond or Empathy. Personally I prefer Bond, but Empathy is better in some ways.
Kindred is great for solo play, though even with Kindred I've watched 2 survivors do gens while the third is chased and I'm dying on the hook.
DS as others have said.
Better Together is AMAZING for solo play. Not only do you get more helpers while you're repairing, smart survivors will know to avoid your gen during a chase. The knockdown reveal is also very useful, because you know who will be closest to the hook for a rescue.
If you don't take Bond or Empathy, Inner Strength is excellent for healing yourself. Just make sure to activate it BEFORE you're injured.
Spine Chill is very underrated, especially now with multiple killers that cause the Oblivious effect. It's especially good against Ghostface.
I still say BL is the best exhaustion perk, what with the stagger reduction even when you're exhausted. Lithe is better on some maps, of course.
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I've made good progress on the survivor side, but I'm stuck on the killer side since none of my killers have Agitation. With one P3-50 and most others at 30+, you'd think I'd have that already, but...
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@Whomst said:
That'd be cool but I think the idea behind no VFX is that it's a surprise perk and hidden like Surveillance. Removing the surprise aspect of the Skill check weakens the perk further at least in its current state.
On a side note, I really wish Overcharge had something going for itself. It's such a minor inconvenience.
Pretty much this. I fall for Overcharge the first time I see it in a match, because I'm not expecting it. Once I know Overcharge is in play, I'm ready for it. I know that when I start working on a sparking gen I'm going to get an Overcharge check, so I almost never miss it unless I'm being a potato.
Overcharge isn't run very often in my experience, and that's because even average survivors like me can usually make the skillcheck easily. Without the element of surprise, it would be even worse.
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P3-50 Hag, Claudette
P1 Jake, Dwight, Kate
Before I started streaming DBD I only played intermittently, so I'm still unlocking teachables before I prestige anyone else.
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If you think flashlights need a buff, you're using them wrong. Personally, I'd rather not return to a time when the flashlight blind was so quick it could stop a Billy mid-chainsaw before he even reached you.
As for "more utility", I'd be fine with that as long as that utility wasn't destroying yet another killer's power. I have a feeling the devs would decide "more utility" meant destroying Fred's pallets/traps and Doc's pallets/illusions. Maybe even reveal the aura of Trapper's traps for good measure. I'd rather not see that, either.
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I use Bond a lot as a solo survivor. I think most people just copy their favourite streamers' builds, and most of those streamers are in a SWF group.
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Yep. I had one, just ONE party streamer among all of my survivors. I loaded it up, started the match, and got DCed after doing most of one gen.
Yay.
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@Zanfer said:
I am not sure about hag, but I know with pig dash you do not get a stack if you are hit by the pigs dash.
Hag ITHs will both charge and activate Mettle of Man. Confirmed in a game last night.
Edit: Played against an Ash, hit him with ITH, normal hit, hooked. Second time I chased him it was ITH, then ITH activated MoM.
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@deathsia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/410317#Comment_410317
He became the obsession after using Decisive Strike on me, the obsession was already dead by this point so him becoming the obsession at that point was just me trying to down him again, not me tunneling the obsession all game.
And as you know the obsession is immune to "Remember Me".
What HazeHound was saying is that you tunneled the Ash, because he was able to use DS on you. Had you instead downed him and left him on the ground for the remainder of the 60 seconds, he would not gave been able to DS you and change the obsession.
That being said, I have heard multiple killer streamers claim that Remember Me loses all stacks when the obsession changes. I don't use obsession perks very often so I can't confirm that myself. If true, I would definitely call that a bug.
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This would help solve the problem of red rank games where mathematically its only possible for 1-2 survivors to pip. I like it.
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@chemical_reject said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/349509#Comment_349509
I'm not the one raging cuz I "DiDnT GeT mY 4K"
No, you're the one raging because you got slugged.
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@chemical_reject said:
Omg take ur 3k, drink a beer, and chill out.
Adept (insert killer name) requires a 4k. Evil Incarnate requires a 4k. Instead of DCing you should just take your points, have a beer, and chill out.
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They could solve the licensing issues and some of the single-map realms issues by consolidating locations as sub-maps of other realms.Wolf74 said:Haddonfield
Lery's
Red Forest
Springwood
Meat Plant
Yamaoka Estate
6 realms with only 1 map. 3 are licenced and unlikely to happen soon. And LERYS is the oldest.
So pretty easy answer: Lerys!Beside, Clown needs a map of his own.
Suburbs Realm: Springwood, Haddonfield
This would open up the possibility of more suburban-style maps, since both of the current suburban Realms are licensed.
Abandoned Buildings Realm: Lery's, Gideon, a funhouse-type map for the clown
Wilderness Realm: Red Forest, Legion's map
As for the Clown, I think each outdoor Realm should have one map with the traveling carnival.
Yamaoka is the only map where this approach falls apart. I would like to see more Eastern-themed maps anyway, so maybe it could be in it's own realm for now.
Some of these might not work. It depends on whether map assets are tied to Realms. Since the current multi-map Realms have assets that are only used on one of the maps (the main buildings), it should be possible. It seems like the lighting is Realm-specific, so that might need more thought.
The other thing to consider are the map offerings. I think the current offerings specific to map that would become sub-realms should be changed to reflect the new overall Realm, but have a secondary effect that increases the chance of the killer's personal map. For example, both the Jigsaw Piece and the Shattered Glasses would increase the chance of getting an "Abandoned Building" map, but they would give a higher priority among those maps to either The Game or Lery's.
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As Hag, chasing someone to a trapped pallet and having them vault back into your arms. Bonus points if you get the sweet "grab them by the throat" animation.
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I also play Hag offensively, without Ruin.
M&A, Nurse's, Sloppy, and whatever other perk you want. I usually take MYC, but I've gotten good results with...
Unrelenting (mostly counters Dead Hard and helps when you teleport and end up facing the wrong way)
Coulrophobia (yes, even with M&A)
Devour Hope (sometimes you get lucky and have a mid-game one-shot streak)
Haunted Ground (They usually think they're cleansing DH)
Knock Out (Not as good against SWF, but it can waste a lot of time if you down a solo player)
I recently played a KYF match with Blood Warden, Rancor, STBFL, and PWYF (they wanted me to play a different build...). Every time the obsession tried to distract me I just got faster, and I ended up getting the mori when he tried to run out and found BW up.