ElusivePukka
ElusivePukka
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No.
Escape-Based Match-Making is just the rank/pip system but dumbed down and devalued.
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@Demogorgeouse said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2550786#Comment_2550786
you keep avoiding my point tho, atleast prove what your saying is happening or i cant believe you in the first place
Your belief does not matter. I'm replying with experience, a summary of how survivor MMR functions which was posted elsewhere in the forums in a Q&A response post*, and a thruline for Peanits describing killer MMR here as well* - not for your approval, but as an accounting of events.
My posting a picture of other people's account playtime would be inappropriate at best, so your request is dead in the water - nevermind the theoretical possibility of being an aberrant data point, the fact that it's a data point is an issue with the system.
The soft cap for MMR, meaning that although MMR can always go up it'll be rounded down for matchmaking purposes**, is an issue with the system.
The fact that a 'win streak' can carry both killers and survivors into waters they aren't ready for is an issue with the system.
I'm not knocking some people having a good time with the system, and not trying to invalidate their fun. I'm saying the system isn't perfect, isn't fair, and needs adjustment based on my experience, the experiences of others, and released info from the devs. Whether you believe any of it is on you.
*neither of which should be linked to at the request of those involved
**again, from the Q&A stream
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549961#Comment_2549961
Right? Someone playing half the characters in most pvp games would be considered quite knowledgeable. Most people screaming play like one or two. Rofl.
As a killer main, survivor is hard as hell. No idea how they do it. It is just not my cup of tea. I was made to kill things, not to loop things.
I'll say that I started as a survivor main and got into playing killer to learn the other side of loops :P
I wouldn't be half as good a killer main now if I hadn't had that mentality going in, and I'd be significantly less skilled as a survivor if I'd not started doing killer rotations.
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@legacycolt said:
Wait.. do we already know what the next Halloween event is gonna be like?
We don't discuss leaks on the forums. Does that answer the question?
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@Demogorgeouse said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2550759#Comment_2550759
i literally said post what your saying is happening, so guess what, until u do that, i wont believe u. mmr is fine for me
Your approval/belief isn't a required part of another's experience, kiddo. Go watch the Q&A. Go read Peanit's recent replies describing killer MMR. Do some legwork for yourself.
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Fun having the four yes votes all be misclicks.
I think it should be reworked. I think the idea of a killer incapable of getting more than one or two hooks suddenly getting a speedboost and snowballing after they had pretty much lost is bad - it was bad in the rank system, and it's bad in MMR: unskilled downs being rewarded, even by a counterable perk, is a problem. It'll just artificially inflate someone's tiers of play, and make that 'crutch' a staple without which that killer will be unable to keep any semblance of participation.
Conversely: I like Devour Hope. I like the system of having to work up to things. I think a similar system would work for NOED, though if it were too similar you'd run into "NOED is just a lesser DH"
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@Demogorgeouse said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2550728#Comment_2550728
once again, SHOW PROOF that this is happening.
these unrealistic scenarios make no sense, atleast show proof of what you are saying is happening
You insisting that it's unrealistic, or pretending it's not real: guess what, your experiences and opinions don't change the reality of another's experience. The proof in in how the devs themselves say this works, as summarized in my first reply based on the recent Q&A, as well as the experienced reported by most players.
All MMR does is account for kills and escapes, sans hatch. That is all it has done since implementation. MMR has nothing to do with skill, and does not affect SoloQ or SWF placement based on anything else.
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@Demogorgeouse said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2550684#Comment_2550684
Ah yes, the system where people with 7K hours get matched with people who just installed the game two days ago.
The current system has me - a person who was playing in beta - being matched against people with less than 20 hours of play experience.
When MMR is based purely on escapes/kills, it creates lopsided games by its very nature - all it takes is even a short lucky streak or being boosted/carried for a new player to be set up against a veteran.
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@Mr_K said:
Killers have separate MMR score.
No, they don't - at least not those which the game doesn't have data for yet. It places you with an average score derived from your killers that actually have data, rather than at a low baseline MMR.
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You missed the memo at the beginning of every rift saying that you were getting early access, it seems. Rift cosmetics and charms aren't exclusives, never have been, and never have been promised as that.
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@Demogorgeouse said:
it works on a single trickster knive oh no
They did change that. It works on a health state change, now
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It's not perfect, but it's also provably not fair. To quote GoodBoyKKaru on summarizing survivor MMR:
"Say that all survivors will incur a 400 point penalty for losing. Survivor one, who dies first, will incur the full 400 point penalty. Survivor two, dying next, will incur a lesser penalty- let's say 10% less, for a deduction of 360 points. Survivor 3, who died next, would then recieve 25% less, for a deduction of 300 points, and poor survivor 4 dying last would recieve a penalty of 50% less for minus 200 points. I hope this can help if it wasn't 100% clear. Once more these numbers are not official, and the adjustments will be proportional to how much the chances shift of if the survivors will/won't escape."
Hiding in a corner and doing nothing for a match means your MMR is impacted less by a loss versus someone who did all 5 gens, gets 8 unhooks, and escapes a ten-minute chase but still dies before you in that same match.
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Deep Wounds counts as an injury as far as in-game description and treatment behaves, though if it applies on hit or on mending completion will be interesting to see
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@hiken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549492#Comment_2549492
sometimes is not that easy to get the sarcasm, especially for non natives...
Agreed. English is my third language, so I try to give what help I can when someone expresses they might be having trouble - I ended up teaching writing because of that :P
I agree with your rant/reply to Gladonos, by the way: even though Glad wasn't being serious, if someone had expressed that stuff seriously I think they'd deserve a tongue-lashing
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@hiken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549472#Comment_2549472
i dont understand your comment, i cant get if its sarcasm or not, if not the problem here its you, and no one else than you, this is COOPERATIVE GAME where srvivors NEED TO COOPERATE in order to survive, i guess we should let them die then, i guess the moto of this game "Death is not an escape" should be ignored and let survivor die then, amazing repply. devs are not encouraging nothing of that, killers still camp, tunnel, slug wich i guess you are against aswell, right? cause thats not "intended gameplay" right? or is just biased towards one side?. then you remember there are perks encouraging doing such things like Deerstalker to slug, but you have counters Unbrekable and tenacity, or to camp, then you have borrow time, people always "found" plastic fixes to this game problems or tried to get advantage from, then devs had to add plastic fixes (perks) to fix that... but that is what this game is in the end. a bandaid over a bandaid, but this especific thing? taking hits to protect your fellas is an exploit? that must be the most dumbest ######### i read in a long time and i get to this page almsot everyday so that actually means a lot.
(it was sarcasm)
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I'd honestly say 20/25/30 would already be incredibly punishing to killers, possibly too much so; keep in mind that gen and hook auras are a vital part of a killer's basekit. While more aura denial would be interesting in the hands of survivors, this kind of thing would easily snowball into something which just deletes a killer's ability to meaningfully participate in a game which is already stacked against them in mid to higher tiers of play.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549399#Comment_2549399
It's way better than the last one.
Remember that killers had literally no matchmaking for ages, and you'd constantly find yourself being put up against full red-rank SWF groups as a purple/green ranked killer.
Remember? That's many of our experiences currently as killers. The 'new' system is just the old system with a gloss of paint.
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It's not an exploit, it's an intended part of gameplay, just like proxy camping.
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Pig
Kramer's Storage - Ultra Rare
- At the start of the Trial, 4 random Lockers are highlighted in blue for the rest of the trial:
- You may regain 1 Reverse Bear Trap by searching a highlighted locker when your RBT counter is at 0.
- The searched locker's aura is then removed, with 1 other highlighted locker also losing its aura: these may no longer be searched to regain RBTs.
More traps are a thing most Pigs salivate for, plus some RBT randomness thrown in on the killer end too.
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My favourite example of this is White Noise's end game match review. I would love something similar for DBD - a simplistic shadowplay, you know?
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@FruityCocktail said:
Look... I SAID WHAT I SAID. I'm waiting for that Dev with the Pig avatar to come in. He's the one that changed Hex Ruin. Akimbo?
"I said what I said" doesn't make what you said worthwhile.
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The combo isn't OP in mid-high ranks, but I understand the frustration from people who don't already know totems spawns/finding techniques.
Honestly, gen regression should get a buff of some kind, but I don't think buffing Ruin is the way - though I wouldn't mind a slight rework.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I dont think the issue here is with Nemmy... His zombies are absolute trash and I say this from both perspectives. The AI is janky af, and very rarely does anything useful. If zombies are constantly killing you then I'm sorry but that's a skill issue. I mean, they're even easy to dodge because their hitbox is so damn small when they swipe and they dont rotate with you most the time so a small wiggle and they miss.
"Constantly killing" is not accurate, but I will say - maybe once a week when I play survivor I'll be being chased by Nemesis, doing my standard loops as an ad hoc designated runner, only to turn a corner and find a zombie suddenly body blocking what would have otherwise been a perfect getaway. Their hitbox being small doesn't mean they can't fit perfectly in the middle of a doorway or wall break :P
I don't necessarily jive with the intent of the OP, but I do agree that there's some value given to killer players who otherwise aren't up to par.
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BBQ, Discordance, Thrilling Tremors, they're all fun depending on how they interact with killer powers. I frequently don't need them, but they're handy if I've gotten lost or lost traction in a trial - a primary use for each is mapping where individual survivors are so I can focus on chases/juggling, one of my favourite parts of playing killer.
If I'm not using them, it's on killers like Ghost Face, Doctor, or Hag, who have info built into their powers.
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@danielmaster87 said:
No killers are overperforming anymore. You just see Wraith a lot because bad survivors don't know how to counter him.
I don't think you understood the post. My Wraith seems to be being paired against 'bad/new survivors' despite a consistent history of good/excellent performance, which doesn't match with how other killers are performing or how Wraith should be performing under SBMM.
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@shalo said:
I get much oddness with Legion, one match against a sweat squad followed by 5 matches against new players who don't even know about mending, this is after more that 150 games since SBMM came in. My Pig, Plague, and Trickster get far more stable contests from far fewer matches.
I wonder if the new system overcompensates for some things if you play a killer a lot.
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@Labrac said:
Might be a bug or just MMR being MMR. The killers I play the most are Huntress and Nurse. With Huntress I consistently get nothing but sweat squads with 4 meta builds and games always finish in less than 10 minutes, sometimes with only 3~4 hooks even though my chases are usually <30 seconds.
Meanwhile with Nurse it's the opposite, I keep steamrolling 3~4 lobbies in a row before I finally find a challenging one. I win way more with her and I still get paired with the obvious solo teams running Self Care and doing adepts. This actually made me consider only maining Nurse even though my favorite killer is still Hunty Mommy.
Thanks for the info - I genuinely dislike the steamrolls, you know? I just hope this stuff gets sorted out, and that anyone else having more specific experiences than 'sweat squads' (which I personally enjoy) can share their consternation without getting dismissed off-hand.
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I'm not saying it's a Wraith-exclusive issue, @landromat, moreso saying "anyone else have any killer that doesn't seem to jive with the system?"
I'm no stranger to sweat with other killers before and after the change, and before SBMM I had to actually work for kills with Wraith - I'm also saying here that I don't like what I'm getting.
While it seems isolated to the Wraith for me, I'd rather have more than just my own experiences as data points, you know?
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@kyogul said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2542786#Comment_2542786
You are aware that stretched res doesn't show anything that's not present on native, right? It's not giving you more resolution, it's stretching what's already available. Meaning those videos trying to showcase you being able to see the killer over loops in stretched res, you can do the same thing in native, but you have to move your camera more. The benefit of stretched res is having to move your camera less.
You're also being dramatic about stretched res. You don't get an aerial view of the map by stretched res and you still have to move about it just like on native to see information such as: nearby windows, what gens are nearby, etc. Even on bare maps like Sheltered Woods.
You're kind of the only one lying. It's very easy to tell the people who cry about stretched resolution who have close to no experience with it or absolutely none.
I really just find it funny how people act like stretched resolution is a human right's violation but they're also the same people who use fps uncap, filters, and so forth.
also FYI: Console can use stretched res too. It's just harder as there is less customisation and it's more hardware limited by monitor settings. For the most part it's not "cheating" or exploiting as both parties can do it. Just like climbable rocks aren't exploiting or cheating as both parties (killer and survivor) can do it, not just one role. What console can't do, however, is fps uncap, which gives a gameplay advantage. You lot aren't ready to admit you're cheating using that, though.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2543023#Comment_2543023
https://i.imgur.com/mSuP7nX.png
Hello, susie29847
Posting your sequence of overt lies and bad faith arguments doesn't give it more validity in image format.
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Honestly, I just want the moonlight offerings back.
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My ideal is a cooldown, but a prerequisite is fine.
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When people come in saying "Trust the system, it's the people not trusting the system that make the system not work" you know there's probably something not working with the system :P
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@dspaceman20 said:
Wouldn't that make the issue with map rng even worse?
Oh, definitely. I'm not saying "devs, add this feature", I'm saying "players, what would be nifty in an ideal world given a perfect development process, team, and finances?"
@Inspire said:
No, and I think the reason why is obvious.
Though I do think that an official weather system for DBD would be very cool.
"No" isn't actually much of a response to anything I said - but that second part is. Weather systems, even if they're passive, are neat additions to games.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2543061#Comment_2543061
The idea is to spark conversation. Could just prove to be a theory, though. I stand by what I said, however. Tunneling is fine. There's nothing wrong, or immoral about it in any way.
That's okay. You can be 'wrong'. "Not against the rules" has never been a good metric for "moral" - which, by rote, is "manifesting high principles for proper conduct."
While many people can quibble about what "proper conduct" is in a game, it's kinda pointless. Some people will be selfish in their judgement, and some people will not be. Moral is what's good and bad, ethics are how to ratify and justify your individual opinion, and people are gonna have it all personalized to hell: there's no real empiricism.
What is empirical is that tunnels trend toward being short-term yields, rather than long-term ones. For some that's enough, for others the risk is worth it.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2542999#Comment_2542999
I.. thought the definition was that there needs to be some kind of fraud. Sorry, not a native speaker.
why not just use the word overpriced, rip-off sound to me like something out of the customers hands? Well.. gues I learned something new. (English is weird)
Rip-off: noun/adjective (slang). A price that's unreasonably expensive.
Basic English is very weird, slang is even weirder. Urban Dictionary is still helpful to me, despite a few years teaching English and writing courses :P
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Let it be known before I say why I enjoy it: I do not think the map is a good fit for DBD.
Despite that, it's pretty, it's interesting, and it is a breath of fresh air to the linearity of DBD's typical design. I think it's just too different, in that it was lifted from another game wholesale - the same design team didn't make it, and so compared to other maps the flow feels.. off.
I like the different levels. I like the twists and turns. I don't like how these elements have DBD logic hammered into them rather than adapting both to find a cohesive synthesis that actually compliments DBD gameplay.
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I'll be levelling her through the event, ideally, and reminder: 500,000 BP comes on the 13th, she comes on the 19th.
Not a survivor main, though, so just take the above as a reminder about the new grade rewards.
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Rather than just hitting a survivor, it ought to proc when a survivor changes health state due to a basic or special attack. As it is, the perk is ripe for some abuse.
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While Trickster's not my favourite (it's the 'bullet spread', for me) he's a solid killer, and this build compliments him decently. Rated 8/8, mate.
If the PTB changes go through, I'd change up both hexes for Blood Favor and Crowd Control :P
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@JexxTron said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WNTN1GCV3GCZ/image.png
From Silent Hill 3...this looks like Pyramid head to me.
Valtiel is not Pyramid Head - Pyramid Head is a priest/executioner/call-man for the church which worships Valtiel, an angel on Earth; himself only there to herald the rise of Silent Hill's G-d.
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Whatever it is would have to be something available in the base game - starting 4 survivors, starting 3 killers, starting realms/maps, starting item/perk sets.
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@SabunoHakia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2537901#Comment_2537901
I will test that if you can't derank but you can de pip then I have lost all motivation for this game. Because I have been steadily growing and improving my skills as pig where even red ranks are having huge issues against me now with out the new addons and no ability to derank is simply stupid, why not just remove the ranks / grades all together then and have the SKILL based MMR invisible then and call it a week. But yeah I wouldn't be shocked I am wrong I do realize now I was a gold 0 pips and I should have welp. Yep stupid.
I'm a Pig main myself up in Iri - and despite what may have been inferred from my first response, please don't give up. The grade system is just for the monthly bloodpoints at this juncture, but you can still use the (poorly implemented) SBMM and MMR systems to hone your craft. If anything, at least hold out for the new add-ons - I had a lot of fun in the ptb, and I'm hoping other Pig players and new Piggies will too.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2537889#Comment_2537889
I disagree. While I do think the devs should take player feedback into consideration (as they do now), I don't think I've heard of a successful game that gave vocal players' opinions more sway in determining how the game is made than the devs' own insights, hard data, and so on. Those games tend to be run into the ground, from what I've heard.
None of us know the inner workings of the game and I doubt more than a tiny percentage have any experience in game development.
It's healthy to disagree - thanks for your candor.
I disagree with your disagreement, and on a fundamental level: I don't think player feedback is actually considered to any notable degree beyond lip-service, and I don't think the dev's own insights are worth much - their conclusions as to what should be added to this game, reworked, or focused on based on the released analytics are jokes. The reason for DBD's success isn't its leadership, it's the lack of viable alternatives - BHVR's own other projects merely adding to the pile.
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@[Deleted User] said:
The ones these last two archives are just goofy.
Make a Survivor invigorated while they're slowed down twice in a match?
Hit a Survivor with your weapon when you're out of hatchets as the Huntress 10 times in a match?
Why on earth would anyone want to do those things?
It was to showcase the changes to the Clown's basekit and Huntress's add-ons - but it does suck that the showcase involved shooting yourself in the foot.
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I agree with the discussion - a slug feels better as survivor or as killer, because camping and tunnels, especially being aware you had to resort to those tactics, can't ever feel good if you have a decent amount of self-respect.
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@SabunoHakia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2535559#Comment_2535559
I don't deny that it is harder to derank as a survivor but still easy to derank as a killer you need 1 kill minimum and to drag out the game as long as possible for the most points to just maintain the rank 2 kills minimum to actually rank up a pip but yeah I don't deny that the current system is designed towards the "newer player" and casual gamers whom don't play often, so I get it but I don't think you can't rule out that the effort and time it actually takes to get to the grades still will still have some factors in their ability to do the role that they play.
Not entirely saying it reflects skill but does reflect that you have a decent understanding of the game how to play and possiblity of being good at the game, I personally hate getting random SWF potatoes and it's starting to get to me as I love a challenge.
I mean, you're wrong. You can depip, but you can't de-grade. I had some tough matches the other day as Iri 1 (decent but probably not highest MMR, it was Wraith/Trapper/Ghost Face night), with 2 hooks being the best result for an hour - no deranking. Same happened with my Iri 2 matches - especially with a couple hackers showing up - but no deranking.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2537878#Comment_2537878
Who do you think decides what is or isn't allowed? The fact that the devs change their minds (like any normal person should) doesn't mean they're not the ones who decide what the game should be like. It's their game.
I think 'they' decide, in exclusion, and I think that's an issue - community input ought to have more sway when it comes to the health of the game, coupled with transparency for the systems in place to deal with exploits, cheats, and toxicity, ideally headed by people with those notions foremost in their mind.
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"Mods/devs said it" is really a laughable notion as far as whether something ought to be considered a cheat, exploit, or unfair - especially since we've seen their priorities only shift when it directly affects them, such as with the flashlight update after Cote got bodied.
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While I actually like charms, I'd rather they focused on stuff like hair textures and repopulating grasses, if not a complete redesign of the ugly floors (note: I absolutely did not say 'ground') which are on all of the outside maps.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2533526#Comment_2533526
Clearly not. People literally make builds that are most effective when killer camps them. Plus survivors can still be saved from the hook even if being camped. Its difficult but its still possible.
A simple camp isn't the same as a facecamp where the killer is capable of physically blocking a hook - which, while rare, is a present issue. I'm not, at the moment, just talking about an average camp, but one where it involves a bodyblock.
My issues with normal camping are more along the lines of "this is bad for both camped and camper, as one isn't getting to play and one isn't getting to improve" - but as I said in my initial response, that's not reportable, it just sucks.