El_Gingero
El_Gingero
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- El_Gingero
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2614834#Comment_2614834
Would you make base kit NOED a hex?
I’m playing, though saying that, it’d probably be balanced on 80%+ of the killers and would give survivors a true secondary objective. So yeah, a hex.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2614722#Comment_2614722
I can agree with this and you are right. It is bad design to not do something all together, a killer shouldn't be nerfed twice without also having a buff or just plain rework ready for him. I really think we actually have the same view and only a thin wire is separating us. I really do agree buffs and nerfs should roll out together when necessary, and things shouldn't be left out to die until the other thing rolls through, us killers have had that for a long time with moris gone, but keys remaining for a long time. This is a valid complaint, but in my eyes the complaint shouldn't be at the fact we lost super strong moris, it should be at keys also not getting nerfed.
My eyes think that complaining is completely justified, just like the original post says, it is just that complaints are focused onto the wrong thing. Again, I think the nerf was needed for deathslinger, I don't even see it as a nerf as it was a needed change in my eyes, but there NEEDED to be a buff with it, and that is where it feels unfair to me like you said.
Also to be fair, the devs did say that chaos thing, followed by them releasing good reworks, balance changes, and the MMR system that, while not super skill based, pushes the game in a more balanced direction.
Trust me, I've been playing this game for a long time and I have seen some awful decisions, but they have really been doing some healthy stuff recently that I feel will get better, but like you said that doesn't excuse the fact of them making changes half at a time. I'm not for making changes like this. My stance is one of making healthy changes like keys, moris, and deathslinger nerf, but it should be good changes too, like a buff alongside.
I don't want to sound like I'm controlling what people should and shouldn't be mad about, you bought the game, you can say what you want, but I really think it is just a matter of complaining of the wrong aspect of things. I don't think you should be mad at the mori nerf, it makes you seem like you one of the ones that abused them, you should be mad at the fact keys didn't get changed for so long after. Don't be mad at the slinger nerfs, be mad that all he got was nerfs and not buffs, because the nerf part of it was justified, even the TR change was fine to me, he just did not get the buffs to go with it.
I totally get you and you are right, I just hope the right feedback is getting through, that is all really
and not just asking for noed to be base kit /s
Fair enough. You’ve been pretty reasonable. I think we mostly agree tbh, and I can get onboard with encouraging people to give more targeted feedback, though I do see value in the typical complaints too.
NOED basekit 2022
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2614431#Comment_2614431
All I'm saying is that there needs to be a divide in view of something as a nerf, and something as a health change. Again I fully agree that weak killers shouldn't be made weaker, and I agree he really should've gotten buffed as well, that is indeed just bad dev work, but the "nerf" WAS really justified, same with spirit. They are health changes to make the game much more reliable, it is like the huntress lullaby nerf a long time ago. People were mad at it, but it was just a simple change to make things much more consistent for the future of the game.
I have no doubt in my mind deathslinger will get a compensation buff, hell I wouldn't mind if he got stuff like longer range, much stronger chain, even 115 considering his current range. The bad decision of not giving him that buff though does not change the need for more health changes like this. Again, "nerfing" weak killers isn't a fact of the killer being "too strong", it is a fact of the killer being badly designed to begin with.
The majority of killers are in fact weak, but are they the killer's fault? I really don't think so. If you take a weak killer, let's say clown, and put them on a balanced map with good gen perks and a good player playing them, they will do good, but maybe still struggle against bully teams using very strong items. This formula shows what the problem really is though in the game. I really do think most if not all killers are in a good spot, and need very slight number changes if anything (I really only think Trickster or maybe legion need reworked), but the problem is killers having really bad base gen regression, and survivor items being too strong in such a game-altering way.
Personally, this is the whole point of this thread, seeing people complaining about certain aspects that I really don't see as the real issue, and if the actual base game was made better, THAT is when we should make big killer changes. Maybe current slinger isn't that bad if survivors didn't have such game-ending items, or if killers didn't need 3 gen slowdown to do good.
I believe that killers should do like 5% damage to a gen on kick, or add a time that survivors have to repair before the gen stops regressing as base. I also think base regression speed should be equivalent to Ruin T3, but a kick is still required. This change doesn't take away how good the gen perks are, but it also doesn't make them any better, it makes running a build without gen slowdown still effective.
I think items in general should be nerfed or reworked and I think Otz video on the topic is really interesting and sounds like some nice fun changes. Though for healing, I think there should be a cap on healing, I don't think healing percentages should be able to exceed 100% in any form, and healing percentages like that should be toned down on perks. This would still make healing perks good, but you can't be getting 4 seconds every time.
I understand, but no matter how you slice it, Deathslinger was nerfed. Twice! There’s a growing trend of half-baked balance changes like these, and it’s natural for people to be dissatisfied.
Sure, it can be argued that quick scoping was unhealthy for the game and that the relevant nerf intended to fix this, however nerfing a weak killer is also unhealthy. In fact as I said before, it’s a far bigger threat to game health than any lone mechanic.
This is about priorities. Deathslinger should not have been changed until the devs were ready to adjust his kit accordingly. Instead, they went ahead with half-baked changes and threw in an extra nerf while they were at it! People are going to complain. It would be sort of weird for them not to.
You may have no doubt that Deathslinger will receive a compensation buff, but I have serious doubts. This is BHVR we are talking about. Here’s a direct quote on their perspective when it comes to balancing the game:
"It's kind of chaotic right now but we're embracing that now. We used to rebel against it and fight back and try to balance everything and make sure that everything works perfectly with everything else and at some point - i think the switch happened probably two years ago or something - we just looked at it and went there's so many characters now. There's so many killers, so many survivors, so many perks that there is no human way [to balance]. Like, maybe some google super ai thing could make sense of it all but for mere humans like us it's just... it's... it's a beautiful waltz of chaos and you have to enjoy it for what it is... and just jump in and get surprised, and get, you know, sort of get lost in the chaos."
That doesn’t sound like a company too concerned with compensation buffs, which would explain why they didn’t give him one alongside the nerf. So you may be confident, but surely you can see why other people aren’t.
I agree with some your comments regarding the core issues with the game, likewise your suggestions, but I can’t get onboard with the rest of what you’re saying.
I do get the whole “fix this and that before buffing these and those” concept, but when it’s at the expense of a weak killer and merely trades one unhealthy element for another, with BHVRs track record, it’s just not the way. They should have simply held off until they were ready to address the full issue.
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Tombstone is fine. Takes forever to charge. Vs decent survivors the game is almost over by tier 3. Tombstone piece does seem pretty strong though. Only used it once but it felt cheap.
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It would be a great perk if the requirement weren’t so restrictive.
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Bot mode with varying difficulty levels.
“Newbie” matchmaking where new players are matched together where possible.
Significantly reduced grind.
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Oh
clunky - checked
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slowish windup - check
1 shot 1 reload - check
small range - check
reeling mini game if shot lands - check
stunned if chain gets broken + still has to reload - check
can’t get downs over most pallets despite being ranged - check
32m terror radius - check
110% speed - check
wee bit OP - checkmate
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Sure. The game could do with more killers as capable as Nurse. Only 3 of 25 killers can even compete at the highest level.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2614226#Comment_2614226
Before, he was bad game design. Again, I still think he needed a buff to compensate, just like my post said, but making the game healthier is better. You can be upset that they are doing it slowly one thing at a time, but to still be upset they are making unhealthy things more healthy is unhealthy itself. I get liking deathslinger because he gave those dirty swf gen rushers no counterplay, I get feeling upset about gross survivors using op meta yucky perks, but you also doing the same thing on your side doesn't make it better. The game as a whole should be working together and be happy for improvements, not mad because you can't be mean to the other side lol
He needed a buff to compensate, but instead of a buff they also nerfed his terror radius. Not only is that unhealthy game design for the people playing Deathslinger, thus exchanging one problem for another, but it’s also objectively bad game design, which is unhealthy for the game as a whole.
Being opposed bad game design is not unhealthy.
“I get liking deathslinger because he gave those dirty swf gen rushers no counterplay”
Well, that’s a false statement. Deathslinger was a weak killer despite his strong 1vs1. Pretending he had no counterplay won’t change the fact that that his 1vs4 was/is one of the weakest in the game, and at the end of the day, 1vs4 is what counts. No matter how bad they were at juking his shots, those dirty gen rushers countered him by simply doing gens.
The fact of the matter is that Deathslinger did have counterplay in his 1vs1 too. For example I’ve seen countless videos of high level survivors running him for extended periods of time and reliably juking his “unstoppable” quick scoping. The evidence is out there for all to see.
“I get feeling upset about gross survivors using op meta yucky perks, but you also doing the same thing on your side doesn't make it better”
Are you honestly trying to compare Deathslinger’s quick scoping to perks like DH, Unbreakable, etc? That’s not the hill mate 😂
I’m not upset over anything, but I’m definitely unsatisfied with nerfs to weak killers. It’s not healthy. No matter how much you hated being quick scoped, weak killers being made weaker is a much bigger problem.
Did you know that out of 25 killers, only 3 can compete at the highest level? That’s 12%. A staggering issue with game balance. Nerfing killers that aren’t even in that 12% is not good for anyone.
When it comes down to it, you can chime on about how quick scoping was unhealthy, but that doesn’t change the reality that Deathslinger was a weak killer and got nerfed, nor does it change the fact that nerfing weak killers is far more unhealthy for the game than quick scoping ever was.
They should have buffed him to compensate. They didn’t, and nerfed him further instead. That’s the real issue and it doesn’t take much to realise why people are unamused.
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Deathslinger did not deserve the nerfs.
Sure, he was oppressive in 1vs1, however he was still a weak killer regardless.
So what’s the issue. He wasn’t fun to play against? His design was unhealthy? There’s plenty in this game that is “unhealthy,” or that isn’t fun to play against. It’s not fun winning a mind game only for someone to press a button and extend the chase by 30 seconds. It’s not fun having to leave people slugged just on the off chance they have DS equipped. It’s not fun facing a bunch of tryhards on comms. Etc etc.
Now, I’m not saying you shouldn’t try to make the game more fun or improve its design. One step at a time and all that. But nerfing an already weak killer just because he’s not fun to play against, or because his design isn’t “healthy,” whilst giving nothing to compensate, and then nerfing him even further just for good measure, is flat-out bad game design.
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DBD is a very simple game to balance compared to the majority of multiplayer games. It has only 25 killers with mostly 1 ability each. Throw in some perks, most of which being useless, and you really don’t have that many variables to work with. The occasional timid number tweaking would more than suffice.
Unfortunately the devs have stated that balancing the game is too complicated, and they instead want to “embrace the chaos.”
DBD could be a phenomenal, but with that mentality, it will never come close to its potential.
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Make NOED base kit.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Show killer the hook states. There is no senseable argument why they shouldn't be able to see it.
“But it’s a survivor feature”
🧐
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Man, what a joke.
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People should be able to play with their friends, however it can’t be argued that SWF isn’t game-breaking. I mean, alright it can be argued, just not successfully 😁
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Camping and tunnelling are primarily the result of survivors being stronger than killers. Only 3 of 25 killers can compete without having to resort to these strategies, at least not as often anyway.
SWF merely exacerbates the issue, resulting in more camping and tunnelling.
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Think about it this way. Camping and tunnelling aren’t going anywhere because BHVR would have to re-balance the entire game.
Only 12% of killers are a legitimate threat to survivors. The other 88% have camp/tunnel consistently (at higher MMR) to compensate for how weak they are.
This is BHVR we are talking about. They aren’t going to put in that kind of work. Not a chance.
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@MrsGhostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2611356#Comment_2611356
They have been generous to killers the past year. You’re clearly a newer player. Never been an easier time to play killer than now
There are 25 killers. Only 2 or 3 of them can consistently compete at the highest level. That’s 8 to 12%. Being objective, do you think 12% is an acceptable number?
From where I’m sitting, killers have been getting shafted for some time. Even recently Wraith and Deathslinger, two B tier killers, were nerfed out of the blue.
Despite being capable vs average survivors, B tier killers are weak and can’t compete at the highest level.
Do you think it’s good to nerf B tier killers when only 12% of all killers are competitive? Bare in mind B tier killers aren’t even in that 12%.
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You can’t “fix” camping or tunnelling without re-balancing the entire game, and considering BHVR think the game is impossible to balance, and have said they’d rather just let people experience the “chaos,” I doubt these strategies are going anywhere any time soon.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2613632#Comment_2613632
I watched scott's video and I still think CoH is fine. You would have to dedicate your entire build around healing (plus a med kit) to get super quick heals like that. I haven't seen anyone do this. You're better off bringing perks like DH, BT, DS, etc. I'd actually be fine with them making it so perks and med kits don't affect it, though. I haven't watched the video OP posted, just posting my thoughts on the video Scott made.
You just need an emergency medkit + one healing perk with CoH to reliably heal during chase.
So like in this video, DH + DS + Botany + CoH. That’s hardly a dedicated healing build.
Not only does this allow you to heal in chase but it provides your team with 3 perks for free.
I still think it’s early days with CoH but the value it provides does seem OTT and when SWF learn how to use it properly it’s going to be game-breaking imho. We’ll see I suppose.
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Killer:
Xenomorph
The Thing
Jason
Jeepers Creepers
Candyman
Survivor:
Ripley
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Why am I not surprised that it doesn’t disable DS.
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@Tostapane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2602155#Comment_2602155
This alone should be sufficient to classify stretched res as cheating imo...
It is cheating no matter how people try to slice it. The devs just don’t care and it would be difficult to enforce. Even using filters is technically cheating. Anything which gives an unintended advantage.
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Technically you’re right in the sense that at the highest level, even Nurse is outclassed by survivors, however the game can’t just be balanced around the highest level. Buffing an S tier killer to make them more compete effectively at the highest level can make them too strong for everyone else. Etc.
That being said, the majority of killers are weak and do need to be buffed. It’s ridiculous that out of 25 killers, only 2 or 3 at best can consistently compete at the highest level of play. Any other game would be embarrassed by such numbers, but DBD isn’t any other game.
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@Sheldor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2612765#Comment_2612765
It ruins the game for everyone just as well if the killer does nothing but camp from the very first survivor on. Either you degrade the game to a M1 holding/Space punching boredom or people try to save just to get denied to play their side of the game as well by some uninspired, unskilled killer player.
What's better ?
Killers camping is better. You can play around camping, but you can’t reliably play around DCs.
Sure, being camped sucks but it’s part of the game. Having people DC every time something doesn’t go their way breaks the game.
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@Sheldor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2612707#Comment_2612707
And why is that even a problem ? If the company would just grant killers full points as if the DC had been hooked twice and died on the hook it would void the idiocy of "penalties" by a game company against their customers who don't like to finish a round for whatever reason.
It’s a problem because 1 DC ruins the match for everyone else. If there’s a DC every other match, well you do the math.
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Wraith was a wee bit OP for survivors who don't know how to run/counter him. As such, he was nerfed.
The nerf doesn't weaken him vs said survivors, but it does hurt vs people who never had an issue with him.
He is still decent overall but struggles with good survivors and can be run all over the map. A good strategy is to get everyone injured and then go for downs, but medkits and the new circle of healing perk counter it.
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As harsh as it sounds, DC penalties bring disabled is a bigger issue. No penalty = at least 1 DC almost every match.
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Remove the iframes
Make it apply a debuff that slows exhaustion recovery
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@tenoresax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2606538#Comment_2606538
that's a wonderful idea! wouldn't it be great that high mmr survivor is restricted to waiting 10+ minutes to only get matched against Nurse and only Nurse with zero variety?
Exactly!
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The grind is worse than most mobile games. There’s really no excuse for it.
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Huntress doesn’t get enough credit. If we are talking about skill ceiling, she’s right up there. Compare someone like coconut to even a skilled Huntress, then realise that he’s nowhere near the actual ceiling. Just hitting consistent cross-map hatchets aline is something I doubt anyone will achieve, even though it’s technically possible.
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No offence to any of the devs and I’m sure they’re perfectly nice people, but BHVR as a company is pretty low tier. They got lucky with this game, right place, right time, some admittedly great work obtaining licences, and now they are in over their heads. A fish out of water, flailing about on the deck.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2608148#Comment_2608148
This has got to be sarcasm. Well done.
Perhaps.
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I can count on two fingers the number of times survivors have gone easy on gens to give me a more fun game.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2606538#Comment_2606538
Yeah, because in an asymmetrical game having the killer actually be a threat is illegal right?
Well there’s still Nurse. I think having 1 truly competent killer out of 25 is a pretty good job so far. If we aren’t careful, things could get a wee bit OP, so it’s best to air on the side of caution.
@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2606538#Comment_2606538
Can we reduce survivors to one good perk then as well?
Honestly, so long as we still have DH I’m not too fussed.
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That’s not surprising to hear.
Meanwhile, far more complex games like League of Legends, DoTa2, Overwatch, Paladins, Siege, Counter Strike, Valorant, etc etc, have a significantly higher standard of balance.
let’s be honest, DBD has a couple handful of perks to balance around as the majority of them are essentially useless.
Killers are simple, mechanically speaking. They don’t have each a bunch of different abilities, nor do they behave in fundamentally different ways at the core of it all. The same generic framework, with mostly one ability each. Same with survivors albeit with even less to consider.
DBD is a pretty simple game from a design and balance standpoint.
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I’m going to make a pizza and watch the rest of Breaking Bad.
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@Fuzzels said:
There has been competition, it just hasn't been as good as dbd. And no one is forcing you to stay. Using your own example, no one is forcing you to eat. And if you really feel the need, you can always go try new foods, or even create something new yourself
DBD needs good competition to become a better game. The devs are complacent and have no motivation to bring the it closer to its potential. They’re content to coast by, one tiny bug-riddled update at a time.
Look at the most recent patch. Don’t get me wrong it was nice, but it was hailed as one of the largest and greatest updates in the game’s history, yet it was tiny compared to what most other multiplayer games push out, even most indie developers with a handful of coders offer more.
BVHR have the resources to actually make DBD a great game but they simply refuse to do so because they’re happy with where they are.
If DBD had competition this whole time it would be in a much better state, with more content of a higher quality.
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Honestly I think one strong killer is more than enough for this game. We don’t need Nurse AND Blight, so yeah I see no issues with removing tech.
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from beyond the gate
lights kiss my eyes and whisper
click click click click click click click
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Yes.
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@StarLost said:
This is basically Poe's Law: The Thread.
Perhaps.
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@chargernick85 said:
I wish i believed this post was bait. This type of ######### does not suprise me whatsoever. Considering they thought slinger needed nerfed and Wraith was a "Wee bit OP" I cant help but worry about the vision they have for killers.
At the end of the day I just want killers to be more fun. I do think there are a few that are a wee bit op but I'm more I'm concerned with problematic gameplay than anything else.
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@BaschFonRonsenburg said:
“We went ahead and added a .5 second delay on The Hags traps trigger-teleport window. We feel this will give survivors some counterplay when they make a 4head mistake.”
Very well reasoned suggestion. The more counterplay the better I say.
Also this way we can save flashlight charges for the exit.
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@Altarf said:
Huntress should have a stamina bar. If she holds her hatchets for too long or throws too many in a short space of time, she drops all of her hatchets onto the floor and can't attack until she picks each of them up individually and sits down for a few minutes.
I love this suggestion and I think it will go a long way to making Huntress more fun, however sitting down for a few mins after collecting hatchets may be a tad overboard.
Maybe must make her move slower until she has picked them back-up? Sort if like Victor’s speed after landing a pounce. Just food for thought.
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Excellent suggestions all-round!
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I reckn it will be an NFT.
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@JHondo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2600299#Comment_2600299
And I'm over here in solo queue using Inner Healing and being the only person in my games tracking down Hexes let alone cleansing dulls after finishing gens or healing.
I'm surprised you could make sense of that with all the autocorrects lol.
But aye same here. I'm usually able to get rid of most totems myself with little impact on gen speeds.