Dustin
Dustin
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2000071#Comment_2000071
It’s weird how everyone thinks nurse is okay because she requires skill when I’d argue blight requires more for much less reward
Nurse is fine but the issue is the entire survivor team needs to understand how she works mechanically to deal with a good one. That's why now when you see a Nurse in red ranks most survivors get demolished because no one plays Nurse anymore. So they don't understand how Nurse works mechanically then they get dumpstered. If you see more Nurse players you'll have less of this issue.
Her power is telegraphed quite well and if you understand charge time and blink speed you'll almost know exactly where she's going to land based on where she's looking, what angle and how long she holds the blink until you hear the woosh noise. Thing is if she holds it too long you know close range blinks will take longer for her to land and some movement close up becomes impossible for her.
@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
There's this conception that Spirit doesn't take any skill to play while Nurse is notoriously the killer that has the highest skill floor.
I think a lot of this is due to the lack of feedback Spirit has. Is it a good Spirit who predicted your movements without even needing to use her ears? Or was it a mediocre one that tracked you down with Stridor and burned through almost her entire power gauge? You have no idea. You don't even know when she started phasing. It's a mix of a feeling of helplessness combined with the lack of distinction of good/bad plays unless you're seeing things from the killer's PoV. What ends up happening is she is widely written off as a skill-less killer who only requires a headset and Stridor to win.
With Nurse, you're arguably even more screwed if the Nurse knows what she's doing. Thing is, you SEE the Nurse. You break LoS but she still gets you? Damn, you should've doubled back. Do you do that? Damn, she saw it coming and now you're on the ground. You see what the Nurse does so you know what you could've done instead. She feels like she has more counterplay despite arguably having the same amount or even less than Spirit. You can also tell the difference between a good and bad one easily as bad ones you have an easier time juking blinks, while good ones... you're on the ground before you can even try.
They're about the same levels of strength and have about the same amount of counterplay, but Spirit is reviled due to the lack of feedback she gives while Nurse still gives feedback... it just doesn't matter once the Nurse is good enough.
I gave a better explanation on another thread but I can tl;dr it like this
All of Nurses' strengths can only be learned on Nurse
All of Spirits strengths are learned on other killers which is tracking sounds - Her power past that is stupidly simple that yes she takes very little skill. The only thing specifically unique to her is her passive phasing that lets spirit players lazily mind game survivors with zero effort. Passive effects is why HEX: Ruin was changed I really don't understand why people think Spirit is fine. They'll argue it isn't oppressive I'm sure but that's just a buzzword to deny the fact that it's not engaging at all for survivor.
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
The only argument I've heard is that it would encourage tunneling, which I think is a bad reason. Killers will tunnel with or without hook counters. It takes no skill to remember hooks but is an unnecessary annoyance imo
If I want to tunnel someone to death I'm going to always remember how many hooks they have - Usually it's when I try to 2 hook everyone where I forget. I won't ever forget if I want a survivor to die. If I want that survivor dead they're going to die. If anything I'm more likely to tunnel not being able to remember who I've not hooked yet.
Legit a hook counter will only help people play nicer it's not going to encourage tunneling anymore than it already happens.
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Genuine question is Blight really hard on this map because I've not had issues - I just memorize where the windows are and if they go in that area I just use my power a little bit less - I don't have issues charging through doors and if a survivor is likely to hug the wall immediately upon entering a door I just remember this and make sure I swing as I'm entering the door and I usually hit them. There are a few problematic rooms where the pallet is literally just a safe pallet and just like any other killer you have to pretty much force them to drop it and then break it.
The real question though as Blight - How do you play on Gideon Meat Plant? That map has so many safe pallets I legit don't know what to do on that map.
The maps I usually struggle on as Blight are the following
- Gideon Meat Plant - Far too many pallets and extremely sharp turns with narrow corridors - This eats too much time dealing with which Blight is meant to save time pretty much rendering his power null in some areas
- Thomson House - Specifically this map because the center of the map is almost empty you pretty much have to walk through the field or bounce off of surfaces surrounding it to use his power
- Swamp Maps - Lots of collision issues - Especially because of the small hills and slopes and random props thrown about - It's super easy to get snagged on something on these maps
Also to answer anyone - Why do I struggle on Gideon and not Lery's? The answer is pretty simple - As the corridors are a bit wider that gives me leeway to keep an eye out on a survivor while turning. Since the corridors are far more narrow on Gideon Meat Plant at least with the actual walking space I'm given far less room to steer therefore I'm line of sighted easier while using the power. To simplify that if I don't go in a straight line on Gideon Meat Plant in some areas I'm likely to run into a wall. So that's the real issue I have with him.
This issue however may change with the Blight changes in the PTB but we'll see.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1994680#Comment_1994680
Yeah I see what you mean. I feel like if they add more unique mind games to Spirit by giving her directional audio, then she would have a unique skillset to learn but as it is right now, her skill can be transferred from other killers. It's kind of like Deathslinger except his skill can be transferred from shooting games. I don't play shooting games myself and never have played Slinger, so I bet I would be trash as him.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1994687#Comment_1994687
Oh no, you don't have to apologize. I like having civil discussions with other people that differ in opinions and you didn't come across as overreacting to me. I also understand your concern with your main. I'm assuming it's Freddy because I think I have seen you on other threads say he's your main and he's your pfp. I'm hoping the devs give him a good change without killing him. Trust me, I'll be screaming with joy when I figure out Spirit is getting changed but at the same time, I don't want her gutted.
Yeah I was a bit iffy bringing up Deathslinger as a high tier killer but he does require skill but his skill is transferable from other games pretty much and I'm pretty sure that's where the hate for him comes from. Granted at least with Deathslinger his power is telegraphed through his actions.
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I do think that people that make the statement that Spirit takes no skill whatsoever are false because she does take skill. I do think that she takes more skill than some weaker killers like Legion and Wraith.
I'm on this boat but it's not that she doesn't require any skill at all - It's that Spirit doesn't need skill unique to her. What makes her strong can be learned on any other killer. The ability to track based on sound whether it be tracking footsteps, injuries or grass move. This in combination with her power is why she's so hated because she's not fun to deal with. Nothing about her power is telegraphed and that's what should change - The actual stats could be fine no issue. People say her glass shards light up when she is using her power but you have to be so stupidly close to see that to the point where I'm pretty much convinced that's a long lasting bug BHVR hasn't fixed and just won't admit it's a bug.
What makes Nurse strong for example can only be learned on Nurse, same with Huntress, same with Hag. Spirit's whole thing is learned by playing other killers and that's primarily it. You pretty much nailed this in your OP. Spirit's power isn't telegraphed so a lot of the time a survivor has to guess. The only counter at the moment is just make distance which again an above average Spirit won't have issues catching up to you.
Do I have a bias against Spirit? Yes - But only because I believe strong killers should have proper counterplay and not be a guessing game because that isn't fun. I'm a Nurse main myself so I get having the spotlight on you as killer having survivors wanting you nerfed isn't fun. At the same time I don't expect much for Spirit just proper information being conveyed.
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Realistically
- Reduce Fatigue to 3 seconds
- Hitting a survivor with a basic attack does not penalize Legion's power in any way whatsoever.
What I'd like
- Fatigue scales based on how many survivors you stabbed capping out at 3 seconds. For example - Feral Frenzy just being used for mobility and no stabs would stun for 1.5 seconds flat. For each consecutive stab it would add 0.5 seconds of fatigue time capping out at 3 seconds. That way it can be used for mobility and to pressure survivors.
- For every survivor in the Deep Wounds state Legion passively gains 2.5% movement speed.
- Each consecutive stab during a Feral Frenzy gives Legion a 5% movement speed increase until the duration ends. Stacks with passive so essentially 7.5% each stab then 5% for each stab after if you manage to stab someone again after they mend. This enables Legion to better utilize their power after survivors split up. In exchange for this I wouldn't be against reducing the range of Killer Instinct since the distance Legion could cover would be huge now.
- Missing a stab with Feral Frenzy active reduces 80% of the remaining gauge instead of outright cancelling it. There's a penalty for missing but it's not as harsh as the current one. Essentially this gives you a split second to try to stab again but not too generous of a window if the survivor actually juked you pretty hard.
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I like the looks of the new killer but I've also broadened my horizons lately by watching a lot of South Korean films lately especially in the horror / slasher aspect. The design of this character doesn't bother me at all tbh I like it. My only issue is the run animation looks bad because of his posture / neck looks jank when he runs.
Lately I've even preferred Korean movies to North American ones because I feel they have more interesting spins on things. Just my opinion of course.
Also this killer feels more human on a strange relatable way - He laughs, he makes grunts when he falls from a great height and overall he's just a refreshing addition to the roster.
Don't get me started on his actual power though good lord it needs work I'm sorry but at least visually imo they added a good addition to the game.
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@ChurchofPig said:
People bring up that The Trickster does not fit in Dead by Daylight because he's wearing bright flashy clothes and is not scary. Here's the thing though, if I asked you (the reader) "When was the last time you were actually scared in Dead by Daylight?" It would probably be a long time ago. For me I stopped being scared after the first 5-10 hours of playing and I have between 2.5k and 3k hours in this game. The argument of how "scary" a killer is doesn't feel very fitting for people who have been playing the game for a while. Am I right?
Now for the flashy clothing argument. Go to the freaking shop and look through the cosmetics. I'm pretty sure that's enough an argument for why "flashy clothes" isn't much of an argument once the shop released in 2018. We have onesies and elf cosmetics and you're arguing about this guy wearing hot pink and yellow? Sorry, but the looks argument died out once the shop was introduced.
I understand that people don't think he fits. That's fine, but the arguments aren't really there since the arguments used, if you play the game, aren't really arguments anymore and haven't been for a very long time. Yet here we all are still playing (and complaining but still playing).
My only gripe about the new killer regarding appearance is his run cycle looks kind of bad. The clothing looks fine in all honesty and really just look at the cosmetics you can equip in DBD. Also for those saying visually he's not fitting they've not seen enough horror flicks. You can make almost anything work if the character is made well either through writing or acting (In the case of a game I suppose how well he's designed?).
Regarding the name itself - How is he a trickster? Where are the tricks? Don't say his perks because that's lame. I guess you could ultimately say being able to land bullseyes with his knives but really come on now.
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@Kolossoni said:
They said the same for Friday the 13th.
They said the same for resident evil 7: Biohazard.
They are saying the same for this.
People. Just pick your game and stop worrying about one game "killing" (I use that loosely) one another.
Maybe you can finally move one from DBD that ya'll hate so badly.
No game is dying.
Who the hell said Resident Evil 7 would kill Dead by Daylight?
Do you mean Resident Evil Resistance? No one with common sense thought that Resistance would kill DBD regardless because both are two completely different games. If anything it was obvious Resistance was going to die because Capcom tends to heavily neglect their multiplayer games.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/231143/my-proposed-change-for-noed
The only thing I would really change is remove the speed buff, other than that I think it's fine
The speed buff for NOED won't be removed unless the perk is reworked because BHVR has all their perks scale off of something because of how they have progression / perk tiers.
If perk tiers weren't a thing NOED could honestly be more fair. Hell I'd consider NOED specifically for the movement speed buff. To me the Exposed status is just the icing on the cake. With NOED I can patrol both exit gates far easier if needed as well as patrolling my totem. That's the strength of NOED.
The way I would rework the perk as is would be instead of passively getting 4% movement speed you just get it during chase. That way the speed transition would be more obvious and there would be more of a tell to survivors unless BHVR decides just to announce people are exposed which would make it much less frustrating overall to deal with.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1980627#Comment_1980627
There have been a lot, actually, however moderators have been cleaning them up fairly quickly for the most part.
But there's also been a lot of people baselessly claiming things to provoke stuff too. I was in a thread from a few days ago and watched every single post as they were made. There were a couple of people claiming the homophobia on that specific thread was disgusting. I literally read all the post as they happened it never happened.
I won't deny it - Yes there are probably some post I just didn't see because I wasn't on. However I have seen baseless claims of homophobia. Both are equally awful and shouldn't be happening.
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@MomoOValley said:
i didn´t said something about homophobic, i meant more that getting some lgbt representation seems to be such a big deal, even though it should be just as normal as anything else by now. atleast i thought so.
Just in general - That's been the issue
People would prefer not to see constant threads demanding a gay character
Some people take this as they don't like gay people when in reality it's just people want to focus on the game and not identity / gender politics
People who want gay character start claiming there is homophobia in the community
I've yet to see any blatant examples on this forum it's just people can't take a hint. As a gay man yes it's nice to see a community so supportive about how people choose to live their lives. However some people on this forum is taking it too far and accusing the rest of the community of something that isn't actually happening. At least not at the level they are claiming. I've personally yet to see any homophobia and I've read every single thread about the topic. It's just people getting tired of having this topic shoved in their face every other week including myself.
You could say don't read it / look at it. Okay sure that's not an issue - However I have a problem with just people accusing others of being homophobic out of the blue with no evidence aside from they didn't show undying support. That's my personal issue in this whole thing. Each time that happens it just makes us look bad.
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@jester20k said:
I see a lot of people saying how dare anyone have a problem with it, but I haven't yet seen someone actually say they were against it lol.
No one is against it that I've seen it's literally everyone saying they want BHVR to do it in a tasteful way instead of forcing it because some of the community is constantly whining and demanding that we have a gay character. Sometimes BHVR caves to peer pressure sometimes they don't. If the community would honestly just chill tf out about wanting representation we'd all be good.
And yet again before someone says I'm homophobic because a lot of people are just claiming there's homophobia and I've yet to see any - I'm a gay man.
For example - We literally get sudden random waves of threads like OP's out of the blue - To me it comes off as disrespectful. Support is cool and all but at a certain point some of these threads are clearly trying to be provocative towards people who just want to be neutral, stay out of gender / identity politics and play the game.
but instead the logic is usually "Nah if you don't pick a side you're homophobic."
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Dead Dawg Saloon - It's small, open fields, generators are close and the only threat you really have is a survivor crouching in a bush. Most of the pallets are unsafe and the distance from each pallet is massive. Not to mention the sightlines on this map are huge. Once you're in the middle of the map as the killer if you don't see a survivor in a direction it's basically a guess on which of the 3 major structures are they hiding behind. In my eyes regardless of killer this is the most killer sided map in the game.
You see that Noose offering that's used for the map? It's a metaphor for the survivors because getting that map versus a good killer is basically a death sentence.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1977432#Comment_1977432
Honestly,the only distasteful thing i see so far are the opinions of some people here about adding a LGBT+ character to this game
No one wants a forced / rushed chapter with a token gay person. I even explain this in my other post from this thread.
@Dustin said:
The issue is always the same - it's a matter of how BHVR goes about it.
I'm a gay man - Don't care if I admit this and don't care who knows - If you're offended get over it. My issue is if a big deal is made out of it. BHVR could just casually add a character and oh look they're conveniently gay that's cool. However let's say an event is made because look it's the first LGBQT character I'd have a problem with that because it gives unwanted and obnoxious attention to a topic and honestly comes off as distasteful. "Look we have our token gay character!" is essentially how it would look. Did they make a big deal when they add characters of color? I don't think so and I wouldn't want it to be the same with characters from the LGBQT scene. My issue with corporations "showing support" is it's usually marketing and that's it.
What ever happens happens but that's my take on it and I'm pretty sure that's everyone else's take on it too. We don't care if there are LGBQT representing characters in the game it's just how BHVR goes about it.
To tl;dr - Don't add representation in a distasteful way and don't make it a token character where being gay is the defining characteristic of the character.
The only reason this is a concern is how stupid some of the community is getting over constantly demanding this. Otherwise this wouldn't be an issue at all.
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@JimboMason said:
NOTE: I am in no way homophobic, transphobic, etc. I am simply being vocal concerning Behaviour and being inclusive.
Although I think its great that the devs are incorporating a chapter with some LGBTQIA+ lore, I can't help but think that they were pressured by some of the community, and I feel like this should be said: It is not their job to be diverse in a survival horror game. The game is about killing and surviving, not about social inclusiveness. I find it so hard to believe that people in this community really think that its the devs job to be inclusive, when it really isn't. Again, I am not trying to come off as non-progressive, I just want people to understand that its not cool to pressure the team to do something that you want, especially when its not in any way shape or form related to the gameplay and health of the game.
I agree with you - Community (Part of it) kept demanding representation and imo it's going to lead to something distasteful eventually unless the community just backs off and lets BHVR do their thing.
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The issue is always the same - it's a matter of how BHVR goes about it.
I'm a gay man - Don't care if I admit this and don't care who knows - If you're offended get over it. My issue is if a big deal is made out of it. BHVR could just casually add a character and oh look they're conveniently gay that's cool. However let's say an event is made because look it's the first LGBQT character I'd have a problem with that because it gives unwanted and obnoxious attention to a topic and honestly comes off as distasteful. "Look we have our token gay character!" is essentially how it would look. Did they make a big deal when they add characters of color? I don't think so and I wouldn't want it to be the same with characters from the LGBQT scene. My issue with corporations "showing support" is it's usually marketing and that's it.
What ever happens happens but that's my take on it and I'm pretty sure that's everyone else's take on it too. We don't care if there are LGBQT representing characters in the game it's just how BHVR goes about it. Honestly though it shouldn't even matter in the first place because the game isn't about what people want to do in their free time it's about surviving and sacrificing. If BHVR wants to expand on character writing and backstories cool. Just be tasteful about it and we don't have an issue.
To tl;dr - Don't add representation in a distasteful way and don't make it a token character where being gay is the defining characteristic of the character.
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I agree with this dude - The more I see people cry about tunneling the more I'll purposely go out of my way to do it. I'll make a survivor eat dirt for four minutes if I feel like it.
I also agree about survivors whine killers don't make the game fun for them but I've never seen a survivor make the game more fun for killer. Granted to an extent it's just not possible to give the other side a chance as survivor it's just how the game is designed. All the pressure is on the killer and if survivors don't see that then what ever.
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@MigrantTheGreat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1974194#Comment_1974194
Nah, I have my answer. You would rather hold shift+W rather than use the killer that's problematic for you so you can use your brain and think from their prespective when vs them
What answer? I'm literally a killer / Nurse main. Spirit is one of the most brainless killers to play in the game. No information is properly telegraphed so each time a survivor has a ######### game and they come in my game they pull some bs nonsense because they didn't have fun in their previous game vs spirit.
Is it obvious I have a bias against Spirit? 100% anyone can figure that out. I want good killers to require skill unique to them. Spirit's skill requirements are acquired with literally any other killer. There's no unique skills Spirit has aside from passively mind gaming survivors because again information is not telegraphed. If you can't see that sorry buddy can't help you but that's the reality. To deny that Spirit is the only killer who doesn't have information properly telegraphed to survivors is to deny facts.
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@MigrantTheGreat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1971351#Comment_1971351
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1971364#Comment_1971364
So what you 2 are pretty much saying is that it's okay for killers to guess and hope and base everything off expirence (even though 80% of killer gameplay is like that), but it's bad that survivor's have to guess off of expirence because they should be soon fed information to outplay the killer?
That's how every single killer works in this game so yes - If that's how simplified you need it then yes.
Nurse is like that
Ghost face is like that
Trapper is like that
Huntress is like that
I could literally go on - Every killer except Spirit gives the survivor proper information to react.
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@ashes2asses said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1971364#Comment_1971364
She does, the glass on her lights up.
You need to be close enough to the point where it doesn't matter - As far as I'm concerned this is a visual bug that isn't consistent. If you're close enough to see the shards you're close enough to where Spirit is going to hear you and easily track you. Being close enough to see it usually means phasing was pointless in the first place for Spirit unless you're in front of a pallet or something.
This is something I would actually be interested in seeing the devs comment on in all honesty.
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@Yords said:
I am not here to hate on what other people want or the other games, just voicing my opinion on them.
Tall lady from RE8 or any other RE monster - She is too tall, literally. Imagine looping her around a normal tile with a window and pallet. And what about all the other RE monsters like Tyrant? They would be downgraded from this awesome almost unstoppable beast to a "killer" who can be stopped and stunned by a pallet. Just look at demo, look at him. The poor guy went from taking
Chucky - People have said that Chucky could work because of Victor from the twins' patch. I heavily disagree. Chucky is just a glorified doll, the only reason Victor fits in is because of being a part of Charlotte. Chucky just seems silly to me honestly.
Springtrap, or any FNAF animatronic - I really don't see someone like Springtrap added to DBD. FNAF is a franchise that just doesn't fit with DBD. Again, BHVR would add a killer such as Springtrap and let him be stunned by pallets and looped by survivors. It also doesn't make sense with the lore of the game since he is technically just a robot. (Yes, I know he is technically purple guy or whoever, I used to watch those game theory videos on fnaf as well when this was all the rage).
Candyman - I don't know much about him so I could be wrong, but looking at the movies from the outside he already seems underwhelming. He is like a version of that bloody mary creepypasta.
The thing with The Candyman is he would 100% work but he's basically Freddy Krueger except instead of sleeping he was summoned to kill someone. He'd essentially be Freddy Krueger but with the ability to alter someone else's judgement and do absurd things like flying away or materializing through things. Also bees.
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@Midori_21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1971364#Comment_1971364
Yeah, about that...
- Spirit does affect grass while she's phasing, you can actually see it.
- She does have an incredibly small visual tell. Her shards do actually light up when she's phasing, but you have to be literally right in front of her or have record breaking eye sight to actually see it.
Regarding 1 - I play on low graphics and I've never noticed this - Does she actually? I've legit never seen it from a survivor POV even testing this with friends. Show me video of this and I will rescind part of my post correcting it.
Regarding 2 - You need to be so close to see this that you're basically taking a hit and honestly that comes off as a visual bug BHVR has never fixed.
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@Biased_Game said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1971427#Comment_1971427
The same thing happened to Nurse because too many people wanted easy counters instead of skill.
Nurse was what balance SHOULD be in this game; the better you are, the better you do. Like in an FPS; your skill is how well you shoot other people or get shot. In TF2; you learn popular Demoman choke points. You learn where Spies can best backstab. The game does not do it for you.
Instead, using DBD logic; BHVR would make it so people who got too many kills would have their aim sway more and more until they can't shoot crap, so less skilled players can 'catch up' or 'fight back' against skilled players.
All I play is Nurse and the nerf needed to happen at least with addons. Base kit changes were a nerf but not by much - The real challenges with Nurse is the bugs she has and she has a lot of them.
Personally the addon changes didn't affect me at all because I don't use addons for her and never will. However Nurse was toned down because a good Nurse meant the game was just over and any mistakes by the Nurse were barely punished if at all. Spirit is on the same wavelength to an extent just not as bad but a good spirit is less fun to vs as opposed to how old Nurse used to be. (Not talking about OG Nurse I mean the Nurse before charges were added)
I do respect the TF2 reference though that game holds a special place in my heart.
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@Biased_Game said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1971364#Comment_1971364
Ok. So you're saying that good Spirits need a handicap because being skilled as the Killer is unfair?
Using that logic, I could claim that Trapper's traps should start glowing neon red if he catches too many Survivors, because it means he's hiding his traps too well, and thus needs counter play for Survivors who can't see them in time. 🤷♂️
Yeah I am - Same thing happened to Nurse for a reason. It's pretty much one sided when you play against a good Spirit unless the game gives you a bunch of really strong tiles side by side and all survivors are pretty much on the same wavelength.
Trapper can be read - It's not the same thing whether you want to believe it is.
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@Biased_Game said:
No offense, but allot of this thread seems to read as 'Good spirits outplay me, so I want a mechanic to help me outplay them'.
Well I mean yeah - Spirit doesn't really have a reliable counter aside from run as far as you can. Every other killer has some reliable counterplay within reason however Spirit does not.
If you actually face a good Spirit you'll see that these fake outs and jukes don't affect them. For the most part people just want a tell that she's phasing and that's the main thing. No one really has fun guessing when she's phasing and when she's just passively sitting there.
For example some reasonable adjustments would be
- Spirit affects grass while phasing
- Spirit has some tiny tell on her whether audible or visual while phasing that she is using her power
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The only thing I'd really change about Dead Hard is the fact that you can go past Trapper's traps. Aside from that honestly I agree with you OP - Within reason anyway. Some maps the perk is quite strong on similar to how Balanced Landing was absolutely busted on a handful of maps to the point where it got hard nerfed and barely anyone uses it.
To clarify what I agree on - People getting frustrated at the perk instead of acknowledging the situations behind it. Almost always a survivor will prep so the distance between them and the pallet is perfect distance to use. I've never struggled with this perk aside from where tiles loaded that was a losing chase anyway. For example 3 strong windows next to each other, 2 strong pallets nearby, etc.
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@Hermit said:
Like many others have already pointed out, I'd like to see the killrate with the following games being discounted:
- suicide on first hook because I don't like the killer / the map / their cosmetics / I was the first to go down, giving the killer an easy win
- killer gets like two hooks the whole game, hooks somebody in the end thx to NOED - at low ranks he gets a one kill because everyone is so afraid of NOED they just leave - at high ranks he gets a 4k because survivors throw their brain away while desperatly trying to save that one person
- games in which at least two potato survivors are so boosted by SWF and the broken rank system that they end up in red ranks nonetheless and doom the whole team
- people throwing because they want to finish some absurd tome challenge
All of these are especially important - Especially with the Tome - You can generally see a shift in how people play each time a battlepass is involved. People will literally play specifically to finish the challenge and then suicide to be time efficient and get into the next game as survivor as soon as they can.
To me the noed thing seems like an isolated issue at worse off ranks but I'm sure BHVR wouldn't count biege rank games to their balance stats right? Right..?
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@AhoyWolf said:
Developers are already trying to get the golden 50/50 ratio, that's why Freddy is getting nerfed, I think he has sometihng around ~70% kill rate from the latest stats?
He has a high kill rate because people suicide against the hook against him because they find him boring. I guarantee you if this didn't happen his kill rate would be quite low.
Happens at all ranks even at Rank 1 in my games - People don't like Freddy's low skill floor and they don't enjoy playing against him with all the slowdown and gen stopper builds he runs.
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About a week or so - I don't even bother for the log in rewards because it's nothing.
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Of course the PTB changes were improvements - Fact still remains Clown is needy for addons and will get dumped on by a lot of decent survivors and maps heavily affect Clown's performance too. The buffs were nice but unfortunately one video doesn't prove much regardless. What matters is consistency. If you were to post a vod of nothing but Clown gameplay that would be an easier form of evidence to convince anyone.
Nice gameplay though you are playing him pretty well how it was meant to be used granted could do a bit more if the map was more convenient.
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@MrsPuddles said:
If people stop playing a game because a streamer they watch stops playing, that just speaks volumes about their ‘sheeple’ mindset. I’m still enjoying the game as much as I did before the new update. So... 🤷🏻♀️
Genuine question and I don't mean to be rude but how? Are you only playing killer at the moment? I'm a killer main personally but occasionally I like to balance it out by playing survivor I legit just couldn't do it. After 3 games I was on the verge of uninstalling this game because of how bad the hitboxes were. Only reason I gave the game another chance is because BHVR is working on the UI otherwise I'd be out anyways.
Are you not experiencing hitbox issues?
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@QwQw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1950903#Comment_1950903
I like this, but now Freddy just seems like a copy of Pyramid Head.
I liked one guys idea I saw, where basically Freddy's snares would be a lot smaller, but also more potent. That way you'd have to be more careful with where you put them.
I'd rather have a clone than a low skill killer to be honest. You have to admit Pyramid Head works and that's because of the skillshot factor. Killers with skillshots that you can play around are just fun and Pyramid Head has multiple powers I feel Freddy with the same concept would also be a lot of fun to play against.
I feel current Freddy is more interesting than old Freddy because he's a lot more dynamic but at the same time the spam factor needs a touch up and I feel he's good.
I don't mind smaller snares but I feel they would be annoying to place as Freddy and at that point I'd rather play another killer personally. Not sure what everyone else thinks about it entirely but it's always interesting to see where the Freddy discussion goes.
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@Dragonshensi said:
I’m not going right off the bat saying it’s cheating cause I know the game still has issues but I was just stating the options. It was all just really strange. That hasn’t happened to me before.
If the hitbox issue wasn't present I'd just say the person is in the wrong region because matchmaking or a VPN or is cheating or lagswitching. I just can't bring myself to accuse someone of that though because the state of the game.
Personally as someone who lives in the United States I've been randomly placed in places in Europe or other areas I don't belong in while playing killer so I know it can happen. I was accused of cheating plenty of times because of this and I don't use a VPN or anything it's just matchmaking went nope.
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@Dragonshensi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1950925#Comment_1950925
Even with the insane hit boxes I was never picked up like that before. I was picked up basically a five feet behind me.
It happened to me earlier against a Clown twice so I'm just not going to assume anyone is cheating until next patch unless it's super blatant.
Sucks overall but it is what it is.
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With the state of the game currently it's hard to say if it's a cheater or the server but likely it's the server because of how hitboxes are at the moment. Give the player the benefit of the doubt for now. I had a few hits like these against me today so I'm assuming that's the case for this Deathslinger.
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If I had to guess it's because you're a new user with a low amount of post. I'd imagine this is to avoid spam so BHVR doesn't need mods on deck all the time. However without mods on deck all the time to allow a user to get involved in discussion this kind of backfires on its intended use.
Most forums have a similar feature where usually 50 - 100 post disable it but I don't know for sure a mod will have to answer.
edit - I like how a mod ninja'd me
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Freddy isn't hard to use but he isn't overpowered or anything like that either. Pretty much you throw pallets early against him. The thing that people tend to hate about him is his swing animation always looks short because BHVR cheats his animation because of his height. The servers desyncing at the moment are probably making this look much worse. If I changed anything about Freddy I'd give him an exaggerated swing animation to make it obvious where he is attacking.
Regarding actual Freddy rework to require skill here is what I'd actually do to make him require skill.
- His Dream Snares and Dream Pallets are now both used at once
- His Dream Snare is reworked into a skillshot like Pyramid Head's skillshot - Using it uses up part of his meter for teleport (10% of it per use)
- Landing a skillshot slows down a survivor just as Dream Snares do now
- Dream Snare Skillshot goes through surfaces like Pyramid Head's skillshot
- The animation for Freddy's skillshot is him performing an undercut swiping his claw at the ground
- His Dream Pallets use the default # counter he has and using addons increases how many he has or to reduce % that Dream Snare skillshot uses.
What does this solve?
- Freddy requires more skill - Because the Dream Snare change
- Freddy's power isn't spammable anymore - There are limits to what he can do because Dream Snare Skillshot and Teleport sharing resources
- Freddy is actually more interesting to play against. - Because multiple powers in use
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Spirit - I get the arguments about Nurse and while I don't agree with them at all let me put it like this.
Both are quite strong but in the sense of Nurse you can see what she's doing before she does it. Even if her blinks are spot on and never miss at least you can see it coming and don't feel like you're completely unable to use game knowledge to your advantage because you can at least read her movements.
With Spirit you legit cannot determine her actions. Not only is she absurdly strong but also unfun to deal with even a decent one because of how much of a guessing game it is. It's pretty much up to the Spirit to make mistakes for the game to be lost. All you can do is guess what she may do without reliable information aside from assuming a Spirit will do X.
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@Nossy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1947097#Comment_1947097
2 & 3 are very nice. I like the 3rd more cause B&W portrait are less distracting but these 2 are far better than the current or porposed one.
Yeah I prefer the black and white portraits or silhouettes because they're far less noisy / distracting when injuries and debuffs are on screen. I liked the third one because it was simple and straight to the point.
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@Shirokinukatsukami said:
I know right? I mean how hard is it to give survivors DS, Kindred, Bond, Borrowed Time and Unbreakable as Basekit. These are necessary to bridge the gap between SWF and prevent Tunneling, Camping and Slugging, but BHVR won't do it.
Crazy right?
I get your post is meant to be satire but I always felt that a weaker version of Unbreakable should be basekit. For example you fully recover to 95 (Full meter without unbreakable) and once per game you can perform a 20 second charge where you pick yourself up but if you cancel it you have to start over like cleansing a totem. Comes with an animation and everything while the survivor is grunting in pain.
Why do I argue this? Even as a killer main who has a lot of slugging builds I know being slugged is boring AF. I feel this would make those slug games less miserable for the excessively one sided games.
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@PostNecro said:
Some UI versions from my posts, maybe this will be useful
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IQ8ICQSU23XJ/old-2.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZCCB1MK2SM55/new-1.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OSVVJ2H94AEB/ui-dbd-1-adept.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0V0TK9CB76W9/ui-dbd-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5B8U4GD7BUZA/new-vertical-b-26w-1.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UG51HLG4FTCA/old-1.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VFVJB7URL2V6/ui-dbd-2-adept.png
I think this post has the best examples on the entire thread. I'm pretty content with all of the mockups on this post but these in particular are my favorites. (For those scimming I didn't make these it's in the post I'm replying to is where I got them)
Credit to who ever made these - The first one at the top I reposted is the one I'd be in favor for.
If you're the one who made them then good job they look excellent.
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@cburton311 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1942579#Comment_1942579
that's good strategy. However, if BEhavior wants survivors to play, they need their part of the game to be fun too. Tools to resist tunnelling and camping are needed
If a killer wants you to die not a single existing tool in the game is going to stop that. Your tools are understanding killer powers and habits, pallets and windows around the map and what ever perks you decided to bring with you. At that point it's all based on whether your teammates are doing generators or are being useless and hiding because they heard a terror radius for 0.25 milliseconds. At that point this isn't a killer issue it's the survivors you got paired with being useless.
In fact most complaints a survivor has about how unfair killers are towards them can be accounted for your survivor teammates being useless. That is the reality of the situation.
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@Mugombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1942542#Comment_1942542
Yes because targeting a player and ruining their fun on a game with a ######### load of waiting times isn’t a bad thing...
That's just the nature of the beast. If you don't understand how to be time efficient as killer we can't help you.
I will 100% tunnel the ######### out of a survivor if I'm behind and I know it will benefit me. It's all about reading the survivors behavior and adapting. If tunneling is going to suddenly make survivors leave their generators, become altruism magnets and try to body block to save the tunneled survivor giving me free injuries I'm going to commit. It's all about being able to adapt to your game. If the killer is exclusively tunneling you then you're more than welcome to use as many pallets as you can. If you are the weak link on your team and end up going down in less than 30 seconds each time though it's 100% on you and I'd tunnel you to just for the easy game.
Don't take that personal by the way when I say you it's just in terms of if a survivor cannot run a killer.
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@JPA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1941569#Comment_1941569
Huntress? Stress-free? Tell me your secrets. I just find Huntress so stressful against red rank survivors, she seems to just get demolished on certain maps, it almost seems like hook camping is necessary to do well with her (although, I suppose against real efficient teams you have to do a bit of that occasionally).
In comparison to a lot of killers yes she's relatively stress free. I just don't have that many issues aiming with her and predicting survivor movement. Granted I know with her and Nurse I'm a bit above average with them because a lot of practice over the years / muscle memory so I have less issues. I know I'm not 10/10 in terms of skill level with them as I fumble on occasion and have my games but yeah for the most part I find them both stress free. I play both without addons too.
Main thing with Huntress is I understand how collisions work with BHVR's art assets and I know the shape of the hatchet collision so it's easy for me to toss hatchets over hard to reach spots. That's usually what makes my games as Huntress specifically easier. Most survivors don't expect to get hit over certain props.
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Clown is weak though in the grand scheme of things compared to many killers.
- He has troubles mind gaming at windows because the grunt he makes when vaulting is easy to listen to from a survivors POV
- He has no proper map pressure and relies heavily on snowballing - There's nothing inherently wrong with this just other killers do this much better.
- Any mistakes with his power is punished more than most other killers through the loss of time because the slowdown he gets while reloading and the actual reloading. Considering his new tonic shares bottles if you use it without downing a survivor you basically have double the downtime with his bottles if you're trying to use both.
- He pretty much has to brute force every chase because of how big he is which forces you to more so rely on the purple ones.
Like can you absolutely dumpster survivors with him? 100% no one is saying you cannot. In the grand scheme of things though he is weaker than most killers and I'd still say against good survivors he's going to suffer heavily from how predictable his power is to play around. That could be compensated if he could mind game easier but you need to use your bottles to make up for the fact that it's much more difficult with him. Which leaves you prioritizing the purple bottles over the yellow ones.
Was the PTB a welcome change? For the most part yeah. Is Clown in a better spot for it? 100% Yes. Does he need a bit more love? Still yes but I feel he's in a better enough spot now that he can wait a bit for more changes.
Personally for me Clown is one of my favorite killers because he has a similar playstyle to Trapper where you herd survivors. However due to bugs and his lack of viability I choose not to play him anymore. I more so main Nurse and Huntress now if I want a stress free game. I'd love to play Trapper more and I'd love to play Clown more I just don't see the point when there are better killers available but do the same things better.
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@Shirokinukatsukami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/226338/a-million-blood-points-each
I don't need bloodpoints.
Stop being so entitled. We don't need or deserve bloodpoints. We deserve a better HUD, bug fixes and better content. I'd be happy with those.
I mean as long as they are fixing this patch I'm content but I admit I never fully got compensated for the BP I lost during Error 111 and Error 112 so I wouldn't complain.
Granted we're here because communication in the PTB isn't frequent enough. Sometimes a dev pops in and actually replies to all threads and it's great. A good example is janick if I recall correctly. When he was active during a few PTB's on the forums I honestly felt communication was great. Then this PTB for example it's pure silence when reception isn't anything other than a 10/10 from us.
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I do like this iteration but I have a few bits of criticism still. However I'll need to see some things in motion to fully comment.
- Perks and ability positioning is fine.
- Power at bottom left is fine.
Regarding the survivor portraits, names, hook counter and generator count.
- For the generator when it was moved to the top center the generator icon would move when the hatch appeared. For me personally I found this visually distracting. I would prefer that when the hatch appears it doesn't move the generator icon. Pretty much how it was prior.
- The generator icon and number could be scaled up about 10% of what it is now so the generator icon is about the size of one of the addon icons.
- Regarding the survivor portraits - I still strongly feel that either icons should show cosmetics or if they're default outfits should be a bit more transparent or greyscale. I feel as they are now adds too much noise for when a survivor is injured or has a debuff making the status hard to read. I feel the font size of the names could be slightly larger. Let's say the font size is currently 12 as an example. It could be rolled up to a 14.
- My personal bias on this is the names and text for objectives could be hidden and at the press of a button they could appear either through a hold or toggle. I'm pretty sure the TAB (Keyboard) / Back (Xbox) / Select (Playstation) buttons are unused so it could be used for UI toggles.
Upsides of this UI is it's much easier to glance at and everything feels more natural. Aside from rescaling some things slightly I could see myself easily loading into a game and having no issue with this iteration. If I need to stare at something I either look at the bottom left or right and that's it.
Overall I know it seems like there's now little change from the original but it looks like a nice touchup and overall looks good so far. I look forward to seeing the final product.
Edit - One additional thing
Personally regarding the backdrop of the survivor icons. Something about them seems to bother me but admittedly I can't put it into words it just feels like the backdrop for the icons seems to not match the rest of the UI. Maybe it's taking up too much space but I'm admittedly not sure what it is. Just something about it irks me looking at it long enough but suppose this part can be disregarded since I can't bring it into words what the issue even is.
Edit 2 -
Here's a gif of scaling changes I would makeGifs aren't allowed hang on
Changes I made to UI
- I scaled down the survivor portraits because all that matters is the status of the survivor nothing else. Font size left the same.
- I scaled down the hook counter for killer because ultimately it is just to see how many hooks you need for max hooks. The circle was scaled down smaller since all you're looking at is lit bars that are clear to tell based on how full the circle is.
- The generator icon was scaled up. The font size for the number of generators left was kept the same.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1940601#Comment_1940601
"Because sometimes that's basically your only option in the case that you're in an open area with a pallet already thrown down."
The fact of you being in this position means you already screwed up and misplayed. You're trying to outplay a position you shouldn't be in the first place.
Also, in that scenario you can start to sprint away from the loop. She will immediately start phasing because she knows you are gaining distance. Instead right after starting to sprint away now you start walking. She has no idea which direction and is forced to guess.
You have manipulated her into phasing when you wanted her to. IE force her to react to you, not you reacting to her.
There are instances where you roam to a tile sometimes even in the center of the map and there is no pallet. Sure call it bad luck or player fault but I feel you're underestimating how easy it is to get out of position against a Spirit unless the tiles are basically handing you a victory. At that point though there's no way any killer aside from Nurse is winning that chase unless they bloodlust.
Also regarding Sprinting away - Once your scratchmarks stop she just unphases and finds your position because walking doesn't let you get far. It's worse if you're injured and the sounds aren't bugged.
Regarding this
You have manipulated her into phasing when you wanted her to.
In this regard i do agree - Yes sprinting from the tile does force her to use her power. However maybe just my luck but most Spirits I encounter are mostly Sprit mains and hard to throw off again which is what I mention. It's too easy to track survivors with sounds while phasing and understanding how scratch marks work. If there's any point you don't fully know (Just in general not you specifically) how scratch marks work you can just go into a custom lobby with Fixated and see how they're formed to understand the slight delay they have before forming.
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Admittedly the way I'd do it is if you're standing still long enough at a certain point when a passive phase procs during each phase you losing vision of the survivor as if you were actually using your power and this gets disabled when you start moving again. As a tradeoff I'd give the actual killer player a tell when they're passively phasing. Such as their arms blurring on occasion on their own screen.
Regarding an actual tell for survivor I'd give the phase two distinct sounds that are almost identical but far enough that if you have a sharp ear you can tell but it would be subtle. One phase sound for phases happening while standing still and one phase sound for when The Spirit is using their power.
I'd also disable Stridor while phasing.
@Crowman said:
Every killer is capable of standing still and getting free hits from survivors running into the killer. Just don't run into the killer.
@Blueberry said:
When you're deciding if she's faking it or not you don't walk towards her, problem solved. Then if she's faking it she wasted a bunch of time for nothing and if she's phasing she just had to guess where you were.
@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1940396#Comment_1940396
He's making the point that if you have "no idea about what she's doing." why in the world would you walk towards her.
Because sometimes that's basically your only option in the case that you're in an open area with a pallet already thrown down. If you try to walk or run the Spirit is just going to catch up to you in phase. Vaulting the pallet and taking the risk is sometimes the only option a survivor has. Otherwise they're running out in an open field which a Spirit will be able to catch you before you reach the next tile. We can argue all day on whether the survivor should be given a chance to reach the next tile or if the chase should be enforced to end quicker since The Spirit is using their power but at the end of the day that isn't the issue. The issue is Spirit has no tell when they're using their power and it's unfun to play against and at times yes even unfair. In reality it's in The Spirit's ballpark to mess up also if they're good enough the survivor will never reach the next tile. Regarding being good enough you just need a little above average basic game knowledge to listen for the survivor and watch scratchmarks. Skills you don't even need to play Spirit to be good at.
The one issue with this is I'll acknowledge it's going to be hard to give Spirit a tell on when using their power and in my view it goes into this killer needs a moderate rework territory.