Dino7281
Dino7281
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743855#Comment_2743855
Having multiple Survivors on 1 gen while someone gets facecamped equals doom because the Survivors cant finish all of them before the hooked person dies and once you are 3vs1 with 3-4 gens left it usually ends in a 4K or 3K+hatch and this is not even taking the remove crows action rotation which takes 1 person out of the gen making it even slower.
And like Firellius says, Leatherface and Trickster can facecamp better but they cant stop gen progression, facecamping gets countered by genrushing, everyone who defends facecamping parrots "just rush gens" but Artist+DMS+Pain Resonance facecamps AND blocks the gens at the same time.
You can use Corrupt + Deadlock to slow them without doing anything.
Multiple survivors on gens just prevent to block it, if you have each survivor on different gen, she can easily block all those gens, so that tactic just doesn't work against her.
Best tactic I can think off is try finish as many gens early, then work on them as group 1 by 1 while trying to get unhooks on last second with two players so it's not just 1 for 1 trades. Unhooks will be easy against her, she is just m1 killer without power there, but you will need a lot of coordination to deal with it, which you will never get from soloQ.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743879#Comment_2743879
Ideally, we'd get to see it on PTB, before it goes live!
Well, those games are super random there. Even more now than usual, when there is so little to test -> less players. Also they might nerf the hell out of it, so it won't matter.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743792#Comment_2743792
Then the game is giving a terribly accurate first impression to new players. If they hope to retain some new players with this, then they are in for a surprise.
Well, this game sucks for new players for multiple reason.
-insane grind is probably worst
You have to also buy lot of DLCs as a killer, not as bad for survivors imo.
-knowledge / skill that can't be used in any other game -> you have to learn everything
It's not that big issue if you have someone who already has few hunder hours, if they are willing to help. I have coached quite a lot of players in custom lobby and it helps a lot. I like to teach tho.
-SBMM doesn't help, it seems
-whole SWF vs SoloQ difference
-alone killer gets bullied
Again, you kinda need a friend who plays a killer too, or watch daddy Otz....
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743855#Comment_2743855
Bubba and Trickster can camp harder, but they don't remove gen progression for 45 seconds, so I think Artist is going to be the bigger problem here.
There are perks that slow the game without you doing anything, so that helps with it.
And main difference is that Bubba / Trickster are going to most likely kill that first survivor faster, then deal only with 3 survivors left. Well, we will see when it goes live. Let's say it's close enough for now...
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742178#Comment_2742178
The problem is that if you do a 1 for 1 trade, you refresh DMS, meaning that for another 45 seconds, no one can work on gens.
I don't think an Artist with DMS can lose using this tactic, unless they get looped for five gens straight.
I think it's possible to deal with it as SWF, either having multiple survivors on 1 gen and just don't let DMS to activate, or have 2 survivors going to unhook -> so it's not 1 for 1 and 1 survivor will always work on gens.
But I think it's impossible for soloQ, there just needs to be quite high coordination for this to happen, but as I said, that is same for Bubba / Trickster imo. I think those are harder to deal with in theory, but well I will test it when it gets live.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743830#Comment_2743830
Alright I got you and yea ik how you feel buddy I have tons and I means tons of hours on deathslinger but even when I bring the best stuff sometimes after the DS nerfs it can be a very very rough game even for me someone who's willing to do whatever to get the w so I feel your pain
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743834#Comment_2743834
Idk if anybody's noticed this and just not mentioned it but that hag game was over in 3-4 minutes no perks no add ons and that flashlight game I stomped them via slugging but I had no add ons and green perks so I didn't feel so bad
Why is every game so one sided?
Why is every game so one sided?
If you are not afraid to camp / tunnel then game can have only those two results, either you find a weak link and stomp them, or you don't and get stomped.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743830#Comment_2743830
Alright I got you and yea ik how you feel buddy I have tons and I means tons of hours on deathslinger but even when I bring the best stuff sometimes after the DS nerfs it can be a very very rough game even for me someone who's willing to do whatever to get the w so I feel your pain
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743834#Comment_2743834
Idk if anybody's noticed this and just not mentioned it but that hag game was over in 3-4 minutes no perks no add ons and that flashlight game I stomped them via slugging but I had no add ons and green perks so I didn't feel so bad
Why is every game so one sided?
Thing is that I don't think Deathslinger is like worst killer now, he is kinda like Twins. Decent, but it hurts to play him.
He is basically worse Huntress at almost everything, except STBFL...
I have played him 100% for a quick-scope, because that was super satisfying to do for me and I play a lot of FPS games, so that was just a skill I had. He is not interesting for me without it...
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743818#Comment_2743818
Idk if I'd go that far lol I mean I agree whichever side brings the best stuff wins but 9/10 of my games it's 4 dead hards 4 bts 4 iron will I'll have to record my games for some of you guys sometimes
Cause ik there's a lot of posters and people in general that don't believe killers face sweat squads every game
I'm not saying I face them every game but I mean damn is 7/10 not almost every game lol
I personally think the game is pretty decently balanced if everyone brings the best stuff
But if your a beginning killer with almost no perks vs all meta it's pretty much a guaranteed loss
Just like a beginning survivor vs a meta killer is a guaranteed loss
Hey, please mention me if you ever make post with replays, I would like to see your Deathslinger games.
Game is balanced for some killers when everyone brings best stuff. I have no idea what to use as Legion to win against dead squad...
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@Zolfo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/304361/practice-mode-when
I think maybe their bot are still not smart enought to play against any killer.
They barely learned how to play against trapper.
They will do stupid things not even the worst surv will do.
Noone wants them actually good. Just make them play against any killer exactly same. They are just hit targets, no need for them to be pro-players.
It would be interesting to see that tho, we had that in Dota (best possible AI vs players) they were almost impossible to beat in 1v1, you had to cheesy it somehow to win. They lost in the end when played 5v5 tho, well they were handicapped, they didn't let them have 0 ms reaction time, they have set them to 200 ms I think (not sure).
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@LeFennecFox said:
Yea I've seen tons of console lag switchers where when they're about to die they start lag switching or right before hooks. People lagging should just stand in place or something and not rollback killer downs/actions.
It's more annoying that they are almost impossible to hook... It wastes so much time.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743796#Comment_2743796
Yea prestige that screenshots like 2-3 weeks ago maybe? I switched to console like a month back cause my PC decided to brick itself
I'll buy another one soon it just sucks getting used to aiming on console
Also that's a typical game for me lol it's either 1-2 brand new parts or 1-3 flashlights I ######### you not
Pretty sure I'm at the mmr softcap cause I 3k-4k pretty consistently cause I'm not afraid to play dirty and slug and tunnel so my games are quite rough and sweaty
I'm not afraid to play dirty and slug and tunnel
Ha, Dark side wins!
It's funny how everyone is saying that game is either killer/survivor sided, which well this changes overall based on MMR (skill level), but in most games it's just contest of who brings more nuclear option.
If you really want to win as a killer, you are going to win a lot, because most survivors don't go that far. Well, except that second screenshot :D that is nuclear option by survivors.
I just noticed, DH + Balance landing? Someone is oldschool there :D
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@NauticalBliss said:
I have noticed that since the last update, the hitboxes have been off more than usual. This has become an issue that has made the game utterly unplayable for me; I only play customs with my friends since I can handle it there, but getting hit in the middle of the killer shack from the window, having killers miss by several feet and hit me, and getting hit around boxes is too much for me (and I have video footage of these incidents from recordings. It happens a lot). I hope this has an issue brought up more often and that it would be fixed (or at least back to the way they worked prior to this last update as of 1-11-22) in the next update ^-^
Hmm, I think those hits are still based on killer's ping. So when it was a custom, it was probably often same killer, right? What was his ping?
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Holy ######### that's a lot of Brand New Parts. Last time I have seen that was during winter event, because they wanted to finish that gen...
Why do you have green perks there? Prestige?
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740874#Comment_2740874
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740879#Comment_2740879
Not according to some threads I've seen about this. It used to be like this. But the power seems to have shifted. Or maybe it's a mmr thing.
I have seen posts about this and it's most likely because of SBMM. New killers probably don't start with low enough MMR and it's quite easy to stay low MMR as survivor, you can bully killer whole game and then just die to end-game collapse / killer. This was one of few things I believe was better with rank system, it was quite hard to stay rank 20...
I kinda liked how it worked in Naraka:Bladepoint. Your early games were just only other new players with few hours or bots. Well, my heart was crushed when I have found out about it later, I thought I am so good :(
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@ShinobuSK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743772#Comment_2743772
I dont think so. Record counts when last survivor dies on hook and it didnt looked like he can hook them all in 1 minute
He might, but I doubt he has found them in time :D but he has Deerstalker for that...
I was once close to a record with a Deathslinger, but one of those ######### kobied...
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Hey cmon, astronauts want to play dbd too.
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Was it a record? 2m 09s is current record for Blight.
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@liquidlight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743745#Comment_2743745
Well, that's silly to me. Pink and purple add-ons should be difficult for EVERYONE to get. They shouldn't be in the majority of matches or in every blood web. And maybe they should even expire if not used in a certain amount of time. Especially if they're super powerful and tilt the game severely to one side.
I mean they are not really that easy to get. You have to play one killer only for anything like that and basically your game earns you BP to get another addon, where you waste all your BP on one killer.
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Like a balanced game.
Just kidding, that would never happen.
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I bet people would love to see Blight only games.
Any nerfs would just kill her, she is hard af, she would become Pinhead / Billy with super high skill ceiling without a reward, which is just bad.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740535#Comment_2740535
Not actually. Learning her is hard for sure but DbD is not Souls-like game. Just you need to pratice her more than other killers. When you learn how to blink and mindgames, she is not hard anymore. And learning her is rewarding you so much.
Until you get into indoor map...
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@tennmio said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732191#Comment_2732191
So it is basically just your opinion (we tend to surround ourselves with people that share the same opinion. Unless you provide representive data you should mark you opinion as your opinion.
He was giving them a 30 sec advantage. I doubt anyone in a tournament would do that. I have to met a survivor yet that hasn't come across tunneling or camping so I highly doubt anyone playing survivor isn't ready for that. I'd say it is unlikely to go 5 games without someone getting tunneled or camped in at least 1 of those games. What is "he basically played like a tournament level" supposed to mean? What kind of playsyle or other factors are you implying with that?
So it is basically just your opinion (we tend to surround ourselves with people that share the same opinion).
Not really, it's something what I see on forum, so I really wouldn't count that as surrounding myself... and I can back up what I say only for that high level, mainly by tournament games, where survivors are highly limited and destroy most killers anyway. Only killers that are doing well overall are Blight and Nurse.
Unless BHVR show us kill rates + pick rates based on MMR, everything is just an opinion. Otz got several 4ks? That's nice, but we don't know what MMR he played against. I don't doubt his MMR, I doubt SBMM. Not sure how it matters when you also have survivor streamers escaping a lot, we had soloQ players on forum escaping over 60%, soloQ... Everything here is just a personal experience that doesn't mean much. For me only thing valid are tournaments, because there are people of equal skill (that's expected at least) and data from BHVR.
you should mark you opinion as your opinion.
The hell you think means: "How do I see it?"
He was giving them a 30 sec advantage. I doubt anyone in a tournament would do that.
Maybe because those players would never be in tournaments. There were few good players, but most of them were not.
I have to met a survivor yet that hasn't come across tunneling or camping so I highly doubt anyone playing survivor isn't ready for that.
Interesting, then why is it so effective in most games? Maybe it's because it's hard to deal with when you have soloQ players in your team? Even most SWF has weak links you can take advantage off. It's just super rare to play against real dead squad that would manage Otz, there are stream snipers that do it. Why do you think Otz is hiding his lobby?
I'd say it is unlikely to go 5 games without someone getting tunneled or camped in at least 1 of those games.
So your personal experience and opinion is valid, huh? Interesting...
What is "he basically played like a tournament level" supposed to mean?
Highly skiller player (Otz) using anything he can to win and most groups are just ready for anything like that. You are not comparing equal skill nor approach here.
If you take Oracle team and send them against random killers, how do you think that is going to end? Would it prove that game is survivor-sided? Hell no, it's just nowhere near equal game at that point. We have seen Oracle destroy Dowsey and True with 1-2 hooks per whole game. That's what would happen.
Lucky for random killers, tournament players don't do this and they play KYF instead to actually practice.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742071#Comment_2742071
That doesn't make it broken, lol.
There is many good comments with valid arguments for that and I am just tired of explaining it over and over again to randoms.
I have said my opinion, feel free to disagree. I don't really care. It's not like you said any arguments either...
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Remove self-heal part.
We'll make it for everyone is still good, but you would have to use medkit, or get other survivors to heal you.
Self-heal is the most broken thing about it imo.
Or make self-heal part only for the owner.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742063#Comment_2742063
Bassically yes.
That's why the artist is the only iffy character here cause on some maps she can contest the gens at any range without physically being there. No other killer bar from nemesis getting insanly lucky with his zombies can do that.
Haven't played the ptb though so i don't know if it really is that strong
Well, thing is that Artist is basically M1 only killer near hook, she is really bad camping killer actually. So you can easily get 1 for 1.
Corrupt, Deadlock Bubba or Trickster are way more annoying imo.
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It's same as why I dance on hook, I am just bored...
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Piggy that respect Boop the snoot!
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@Advorsus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742088#Comment_2742088
It was literally the tournament that spooky just commented for. He and quite a few other streamers actually commented about how even the tournament actually was.
And no, that's simply not true. If played perfectly by both sides, without any perks or add-ons, completely even, the killer would eventually catch any survivor due to killers being faster and have the ability to get faster over time.
The difference in games and what people think is an unbalance of power, is actually usually a difference in skill.
Sure, average kill rate was 2,16, which is not bad, there is little issue tho.
You have basically two killers out of 26 that are balanced there. Spirit had one game with 4k, but then 3x 1K...
Btw bloodlust gets reset whenever you break a pallet or use your power, so good luck with that. You will catch that survivor (can take a lot of time) unless other survivors help with body-blocks. We have seen that with Oracle games...
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@Advorsus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742082#Comment_2742082
Well no, if I was going just by Otz's video I would've just said it's killer sided, because he averaged over 3 kills per game and won 9 out of 10 times, that'd be completely unbalanced.
No? That's what I am talking about. It's just a contest about how much that side wants to win.
He often had more hours than whole team against him. How is that equal skill?
In first half where he won everything he had best perks, map offerings and addons.
When he played without perks, he was using camping / tunneling a lot and still was way better than them anyway.
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@SuzuKR said:
It's only survivor sided at hyper high levels of play, which basically nobody ever will face. Otherwise, it's pretty even.
Depends on a killer a lot.
You don't need to be that good to destroy Wraith, Legion, Clown etc.
But that story is different for Nurse, Blight...
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Problem is that you can say it's survivor / killer sided only when both sides have equal skill and are using same resources, which just is never going to happen in random lobby, almost...
Only thing Otz showed us is that the side which used more resources is going to more likely win (items, perks, addons, offerings, playstyle) and that camping / tunneling is really effective way to win a game, who would have thought?
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742070#Comment_2742070
People were also assured that Pentimento would be OP, too. And I have legit never seen it used. And on the other side, we had people who were sure the Lucky Break buff was going to break the game, so much that it got nerfed before the buff made it to live fully.
It would be pain to deal with Lucky Break before nerf tho. I think it did need a nerf, but maybe not that big.
Overcome, Iron Will, Lucky Break, CoH would be so annoying.
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@Ravenlord4711 said:
heres the thing. if perk A makes perk B useless because it does the same thing but better. why would anyone ever use perk B. as in Why would you ever use Self care when you have COH? if you set up a totem and heal its still faster than self care let alone giving the whole team the ability to self care and 2x the speed as well. so 1 of 2 things is going to happen CoH will be nerfed or Selfcare will be buffed. neither is desirable for killer side or survivor side. ever wonder why killers tunnel and camp you out of the game? cause there is a good chance if i hit you and let you go you will just heal up. so the most effective way is to tunnel you until you are dead and move on.
Don't forget about Inner Healing. Both needs a totem to work, but one of them works only for you and once per totem...
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742050#Comment_2742050
That doesn't make it broken, that makes it useful. You can't rely on random teammates in solo.
That does make it broken and yeah that also means it's useful.
You can always use medkit if you have that big trust issues...
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I don't know why is everyone so scared of this. Artist is not good face-camping killer, she is basically m1 killer, so 1 for 1 is super easy to do against her, just don't get grabbed.
If you want camp build you can use Corrupt, Deadlock on Bubba or Trickster and you can't even unhook against that and you can't gen rush against that.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741500#Comment_2741500
The problem isn't really the gens not being able to be repaired. The problem is that they can camp without fear.
The counter to camping is to rush out the gens, you can't do that with this build.
So issue is face-camping instead?
If Artist is going to chase other survivors DMS doesn't do that much. Hey it's blocked, but that also means it's blocked for a killer = your progress is safe. So Pop is completelly useless, Ruin is also way worse, so that's already two meta perks you don't have to deal with. So this way DMS is going to bring new builds, I think that is good thing.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741989#Comment_2741989
I disagree. People aren't going to be happy until it's useless.
I would be fine if they just removed self-heal part, then it's We'll make it for everyone and it would still be used for healing builds and group healing would be super fast.
Or just nerf the ######### out of self-heal so it's self-care 2.0, you need teammate / medkit or you are going to waste a lot of time, but someone thought that medkit speed is fine... Funny is that bless + heal is still faster than self-care.
The fact that you don't ever need your teammates to recover is what makes it broken imo.
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@Pulsar said:
"Boob range small" :(
Also, no, CoH is wildly overtuned. If you can't see that, you might be blinder than Demodoggo (he has no eyes, how he get blinded???)
Pyramid Head would like to say something about flashlights too....
and yeah CoH is broken.
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I am going to facecamp you so hard....
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741315#Comment_2741315
Well Twins, Trickster, Pinhead, and Artist all got released.
Perks like Starstruck, Deadlock, Plaything, Lethal Pursuer, Grim Embrace, and Pentimento came out.
CoH is overrated. It's strong but not OP by any means
SBMM also apparently doesn't ever work and a lot of people cry out that the old system was even better, so that's a rough argument.
Twins got nerfed a lot and they suck against boons.
Trickster is supposed to make kill rates high?
Pinhead is also not really high tier, but he is super good against soloQ, that is main reason why he had high kill rates, but he got nerfed too.
Artist is decent.
Starstruck is not used much and there is only few killers that are good with it.
Deadlock and Pursuer are good.
Plaything is good only for few killers and with pentimento but boons are annoying against it.
Grim Embrace is bad.
Some of those perks are decent, but none of them is actually meta perk unlike CoH.
CoH is not overrated, it's broken, but I am too lazy to argue about that again.
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@Oiry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741304#Comment_2741304
I am probably going to regret saying this, but currently, I feel like I would legit agree to make Unbreakable basekit (at least the pick yourself up once part without the recovery speed) if I didn't have to see CoH in my games
Oh right, Twins are not screwed enough. Oni would like to have a word too.
Yay, DS on everyone again. Just hell no.
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Plague is good way. Exposed killers, top tier killer that can commit to any chase like Nurse, Blight.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741291#Comment_2741291
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C96GJY9D4DQ0/image.png
It's old but only by about a year. There's been a ton of really strong killer stuff added so I would think it's around the same now.
LOL, what strong killer stuff?
First of all, red ranks were RNG anyway, it doesn't mean high skill.
Freddy got nerfed to oblivion. CoH is meta, validation is here, SBMM is a thing. It would be way lower now.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741248#Comment_2741248
Bruh this has been sent so many times, these are for ALL ranks, even new baby players that just started (which is the majority of players in this game).
Well, those babies are dying more so kill rate is higher thanks to them... It didn't really matter with ranks anyway, but maybe we will get MMR specific kill rates in future. Otherwise you can't really prove anything.
Otz proved only that who wins is highly based on what resources you are using to win and camping / tunneling is best way to win. Nothing new. That doesn't prove survivor / killer sided.
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@zarr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741007#Comment_2741007
Yeah, sorry, your original post was rather dismissive, but you have since clarified or expanded on some of the points. I was just typing my response to Synzicle before addressing yours, and was then too lazy to go back and change the tone of that statement. 😅
I do think this loadout restriction system being applied to survivor groups at large and being balanced against adjustments to camping and tunnelling could turn out rather well. But that is obviously a much more complicated undertaking, for one thing making the loadout restriction system work for random lobbies that only have a minute to adjust perks, and for another of course dealing with the entire microcosm of the gameplay element that is camping. Not impossible, and with regards to the latter definitely something I want to see in the future regardless, but it's less readily-workable than the SWF loadout restrictions I suggest, which I do think would do a lot of good for the game and do it fast.
Here's a few more arguments I randomly attach to this post (they are tangentially related to points we discussed earlier, but they are not strictly directed at you):
I think buffing solos with SWF balance in mind power-creeps the game in a way that if anything leaves new players behind even more. New players often won't be able to make good use of the information the game gives them, hell, in many cases they will if anything be overwhelmed by the information while they are trying to still maneuveur the very basic principles and mechanics of the game. I know that's been the case for me whenever I entered a Tom Clancy game (just that it turned out like 90% of the information it gave me was inconsequential to my succeeding, lol). And so we create a situation in which newer players in the best case are not benefitting from this info all that much, while in the worst case even being negatively affected by it, and we then also buff a lot of killers to "compensate" so they will face even tougher opposition.
I think in general (so also with regards to all skill and experience levels) it is more reasonable to acknowledge that SWF's ceiling is too high and to balance SWF with the rest of the game in mind, rather than try to balance the rest of the game with that unreasonably high SWF ceiling as a standard in mind. That would lead to a power creep that is problematic well beyond the "new player" brackets. I mean, are we really looking to buff all killers to be as strong as Nurse and Blight, who can compete with that absolute top ceiling?
Tournaments show that quite a lot of the killer lineup can actually compete even against highly-skilled and coordinated 4-player SWF teams in an environment where those teams have loadout restrictions in place. Average kills fall slightly above 2, wins for either side are completely commonplace. So we already have evidence that these simple SWF nerfs would get us to a much more reasonable state of balance for a lot of the game, without having to buff a dozen killers in elaborate ways that would have to be both notable yet still sensible when accounting for solo environments too. It's just a much easier, faster and already proven way to get closer to our goal of closing the gap and making the game more balanced as well as easier to balance from there on out.
And I mean, BHVR has been talking about wanting to bridge the solo/SWF gap for more than two years now, and little to nothing of note has happened with regards to that in that time. And then there's killers like Legion that for years have been more than deserving of buffs even regardless of SWF/solo concerns and are left in a rather sad state for seemingly little reason. Why do we believe that BHVR will suddenly start shipping multiple notable solo buffs that actually improve that experience tangibly and consistently, and also then ship multiple such buffs for a whole range of killers too? They are still nerfing add-ons of mid-tier killers in an update that is yet to hit live, in what year would we ever expect such a wild reality of a tangibly more competitive solo experience and a more powerful killer lineup across the board? To that I say: "Just nerf SWF already, lmao."
I also want to note that most good SWFs don't really need perks to succeed in the public matchmaking environment, let alone multiple copies of the strongest perks. In fact, I think it is much more reasonable to assume that way more survivors are propped up by SWF loadout coordination to succeed against better killers, than good survivors are helped by it to compete against equal killers. Good SWFs would still comfortably do well, lesser SWFs would stop being favoured as much by the mere stackedness of their loadouts. And since most SWFs fall more on the "lesser" side of this, the killer experience would stand to benefit a lot. And I also don't think "lesser" SWFs would start losing to equal and worse killers a lot more due to this change either. They would have a harder time naturally, it would do a whole lot to bring more balance into those scenarios, but nerfing SWF is of course precisely the point.
I was also thinking about it and I would probably like to take back the part that one perk only system I was talking in my last comment.
Thing is that system changes I talked about would actually make it even worse for SWF. SoloQ would probably take all meta perks and there would be nothing you can do about it, so SWF of 3 players would get punished more even tho they benefit less from being SWF.
So actually make it SWF only thing would be better in this case. I have always liked how you have team roles on tournaments, so it would be interesting to have this in normal game too.
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@TastyPiss said:
Why are grabs STILL not validated unlike dead hard? Thats legit just asking for even more unbalance of this game.
I think it is. That's why you can get denied grab. Best thing is that you can get denied grab and miss that automatic attack...
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@zarr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740845#Comment_2740845
I avoided your guys' discussion so far, but let me butt in here I guess, if only to try and steer it more closely back to the topic of the original suggestion.
First, with regards to the player activity stats, you are both kinda right. XStormyXDayzX is right that on average, the game has been growing over the years, including the past year. There are surges and dips in activity throughout years, and many of them are entirely to be expected as pointed out, as they coincide with holidays, content releases, and such. But the growth when you look at year-round averages is there, and with DbD now being on pretty much any platform you can game on as well as multiple PC clients (and soon perhaps even Linux), and with there being crossplay across all of them apart from mobile, it would be silly to talk about the game being in any danger of losing too much player activity.
On the other hand, player retention is important of course, and as you point out, DbD does not retain enough players to make up for players that play less or not at all anymore, otherwise we wouldn't see averages settle as much lower as the peaks. That said, the player retention rate might very well not be at all concerning for BHVR. Not only did we have some of the biggest surges in player activity yet last year from which a more steep downtrend is to be expected, but we've also had Covid affecting things throughout the last two years in unusual ways. Maybe BHVR is more concerned about the continued if slight decline in average player numbers (on Steam) throughout the last 4 months, and maybe particularly so because not even their Christmas event and log-in rewards brought numbers out of the reds, and the existence of Propnight and VHS is probably not entirely "unconcerning" for them either...
But ultimately, I don't think player activity is really an argument here either way. It would be speculation entirely on our end whether player retention is an issue affecting one role more than the other, and if anything, if BHVR is not doing big things that would boost killer player retention, we kind of have to assume that killer player retention is not actually a big problem or at all a problem, because BHVR does have the data to draw conclusions regarding these things, and indeed a big interest in solving such problems if they do exist and do threaten the game's popularity and longevity, because they of course care about those things (which is: profit) more than about... "killers" or "survivors".
I also have never bought into anecdotal arguments regarding queue times. This is something that has always changed between ranks (now ratings), regions, times of day and night, events, rifts, and so on. My personal experience is that survivor queues are in fact not very long, and indeed faster than my killer queues at certain times, such as in the early mornings to late noon. And having played this game for years, my experience with per-role queue times has been such pretty consistantly: earlier in the day, survivors queues are faster; during much of the day, queues times are comparable on both sides; later in the day, killer queues are faster. That as a general experience. I also think queue times are a self-regulating issue to a certain extent, because there are actually a lot of players (me included) that will switch roles based on queue times, thereby obviously helping stabilize that issue around more reasonable averages. And anyway, whenever I have asked people for evidence of their claims that survivor queue times are actually so super long and killer queue times so super short, they haven't taken me up on that. And when I provide evidence from multiple streamers showing their survivor queue times averaging around 1min and regularly even being shorter than their killer queue times overall, that apparently doesn't matter. I think queue time arguments are indeed more often based in bias than fact. And this is again something BHVR can easily see and does in all likeliness do very much look at, and so when people are sounding alarms about long queue times that BHVR can see is just not the case, that is not helping whatever case the people making those claims are concerned with, I'm sure.
So, let's ignore player acitvity and queue times and whether those would indicate anything that is relevant for my suggestion.
I have to say you seem too intelligent to be as unsensible as some of your statements regarding this game are. "Survivor by Daylight", "killer mains [...] are nothing more than punching bags" - I mean, come on dude. I appreciate the fact that you are the first and only person here posting so far that doesn't fundamentally dislike my suggestion and rejects it, but I will tell you that my suggestion is not based on the idea that survivors are super OP and the game hell for killers. In public matchmaking, I actually believe the game is favourable for killers, and even the average escape rates of 4-player SWFs even at higher MMR brackets are likely not very problematic either. That said, the performance potential of SWFs, the ceiling, is absolutely problematic, and while it is far from the average SWF experience, it is absolutely an experience that does happen, and it is a ridiculously imbalanced experience in the public matchmaking environment. That is the conviction my suggestion is based on. There are also killer performance ceilings I would like to see adjusted (mostly Nurse/Blight/certain add-ons, but also the effectiveness of certain strategies), but I do think SWF is a significantly bigger balancing problem that has more of a negative effect on the game, and as such I consider SWF adjustments to be more important and urgent, especially now with MMR in place where killer players at the top-end will be matched against SWFs with a notably increased frequency as compared to the rank-based MM past.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740884#Comment_2740884
I would do it for everyone so it doesn't feel like "punishing" change, but it would bring diversity instead, which might be actually good thing with enough buffs to weak perks.
Fair enough, but then this point is of course not a critique of my suggestion or its validity, but you are expanding its rationale over more of the game. And I can agree that it could be good. Maybe introduce a sort of point system for loadouts, we've seen suggestions like that in the past and I'm not fundamentally opposed. I would certainly agree with buffs for perks. While there are totally more than 16 that are more than good enough to make for a very well-equipped 4-SWF team, I do obviously agree that too too many perks (on both sides) are just not nearly good enough in the total pool of perks. That's a big gripe of mine with the game too, in fact.
Another problem is that you would have to make exceptions for some perks like it is on tournaments for BT for example. I wouldn't limit all perks to 1, some core perks might be better for 2 per team instead imo.
This is also fair. In tournaments, some key perks are indeed sometimes allowed 2 times, most of all of course BT. If the availability of multiple copies of certain survivor perks turns out to be too integral to the game's balancing even in 4-player SWF scenarios, then that should be something to further tweak the system according to.
That said, for one thing I actually am not convinced there are any perks 4-player SWFs require multiple copies of to be able to compete against most killers, let alone in the public matchmaking environment, and for another I would prefer if perks that are identified to actually be that integral to the game's balancing would instead be reworked into base game mechanics. And that is especially the case regarding the balancing around camping and tunnelling, which I do also think warrants being addressed.
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Hey, I don't have issue with your idea in general, it's just that I don't like SWF only changes. So I would rather expand your idea so it can be used for all survivors. As I said it would bring diversity to the game, which is something lot of players would like to see, but tunneling / camping would have to be adressed.
Nerf to camp / tunnel would be actually better alternative than try to limit killer's perks and it would improve overall health of the game.
What we could do se give soloQ a priority for perks in lobby. What that means is that everyone just setup build and when they get into a lobby identical perks would get removed starting with SWF players, otherwise random player. SoloQ players would be more likely to use perks they want and SWF would have to adapt. So it would be change for everyone, but it would affect SWF more.
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@SleepyWillo said:
So not boons. Just one specific boon that you have issue with.
Any time spent blessing a totem is time not on gens. I'm cool with it tbh.
Well, after at least two heals by CoH you gained time on gens instead...
Funny is that blessing + healing is still faster self-care.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739579#Comment_2739579
"killers usually get stomped on by swfs with map offerings."
Where is your evidence for this? Is this just based on your experience?
Otz actually got stomped by stream snipers doing this. Why do you think he is hiding his lobby now?