Is saying 'don't expect to win' to complaining solo queue survivors bad advice?
I see this piece of 'advice' often said to people who complain about solo queue and honestly I don't think it makes much sense.
Part of the fun of video games is winning and feeling like you achieved something. As much as people want to talk about how useless rank was/is and probably same with MMR, the game still clearly tells you that you clearly lost when you die. You can run a killer for five gens and get left to die on first hook while your other three teammates get out and your fun is going to be noticeably decreased than if you escaped because your teammates who just held M1 benefited off of your work and you get nothing for it. You lose MMR and subsequently get an MMR score that makes you more likely to give you worse teammates, it is in effect punishing you for not escaping, so the entire notion of this game has no win condition isn't true.
"Doing your own thing" doesn't help either. I like running a sabo build with a toolbox and break out and I can't do that anymore because I just get left to die on hook while the teammates I saved from death hook just leave me to die. Running meta perks doesn't help either because I get braindead teammates who literally can't chase. Even trying to "focus on improving" is hard when so many games I have my teammates leave the map barren of resources or just pre drop pallets and just leave no resources for me.
I really do not see any sort of fun in this. The amount of recent anti looping killers which just exacerbates the issue and makes the gameplay even more unfun on top of getting bot teammates.
Comments
In my personal experience (I play a lot of SoloQ), I enter a match not necessarily expecting to escape. My main objectives are (right after rank reset) not de-pipping (worst case scenario) and, if I feel the match had a good start, I raise the bar to actually getting +1 or +2 pips (even if I die). That's my main objective because I need the BPs from the monthly rank reset.
As a second objective, I always go for challenges from every tome I can. I'm running out of things to do because I need to unlock more survivors but I'm focussing on killers now, but I try to always have something to do to get me the extra BPs.
An escape is always welcome, but honestly knowing how Solo Q works, I try not to expect much from the matches.
There is a difference between not expecting to win and not trying to win.
I think better way to word the same advice would be "before playing anything competitively learn to cope with loss."
Its fun to win but some people's fun is defined by winning. They make the worst people to play against because when they don't win they also don't have fun and usually try to ruin everyone elses fun along the way.
Any gameplay example from you?
Sorry, I am very skeptical of topics like these. I
The advice isn't "don't expect to win"
It's "don't always expect to win"
A subtle but big difference
Instead of that just say: expect the worse, but hope for the best. When lowering someones expectations to be below average, everything is better than it could have been so its ok in the end
I mean, I wouldn't tell anyone anything if they are baby raging about a loss. If they didn't learn it when they were more receptive, they sure as hell do not want to hear it from a wise Buddhist.
Can´t remember a single time that this kind of advice was given to new solo survivors.
But plenty of times to "new" killers.
On a side note, if you need help with solo survivor, hook me up. I´m sure i can give you some advice if needed.
I think the reason is that new killers will always destroy new survivors...
Pretty much this. It's much easier to play killer than it is to play survivor.
Not according to some threads I've seen about this. It used to be like this. But the power seems to have shifted. Or maybe it's a mmr thing.
If a new killer goes against new survivors, they'll probably win; new survivors are scared and confused and don't know how to utilize map resources, so they take forever to go gens and still go down reliably when in chase, even when the killer doesn't know how to use their power or time their swings yet.
If a new killer goes against average or experienced survivors, yeah, they'll get screwed. And this happens all the time with new MMR. Last night I played 3 SWF games with 3 experienced players, and two of them were against a one-perk baby killer. I think they said they were addressing this in the next midchapter and lowering the initial MMR, but we'll have to see if that actually works.
Pre-MMR, I found pipping to be difficult as well. Back then I was doing what I would consider optimal play; stealthing a lot more (avid Spine chill user), genrushing, and saving, but a lot less interaction than I get now. I escaped a fair amount more but still majority losses mostly due to teammates being bad and me having to baby sit them. I found it really hard to pip up every game/every other game considering how chaotic it was and how generally bad teammates were; I thought the pip system of basically doing minimum two gens/two minute chases/two totems/two saves or heals to get a pip to be unrealistic
It's one thing to be displeased by not escaping every match but still winning a fair amount and then the inverse; losing pretty much every match and rarely ever escaping because of how bad your teammates are or how selfish they are. There have been so many games where I have gotten left on first hook because a teammate erroneously opens the gate and just leaves, and the other two don't even attempt to save me when they can (i.e. they're healthy, not against a Bubba/insta down killer/no ed, etc.)
I don't have any recent gameplay, maybe if I run across some games I'll record something. most I have is from like a year or so ago but I've improved a fair amount since then, plus in said video I was in a swf, which isn't indicative of solo queue woes.
When you're not escaping 90% of your matches, "don't expect to win" seems more adequate than "don't always expect to win" which implies you win/escape a fair amount
Idk like for example my MMR is pretty solid on killer, I almost never lose a game (my definition of losing is getting less than majority of either individual hooks and/or less than a 2k, most times being 3k~4k) and I do lose here and there technically by survivors escaping but I don't complain about it because of how often I win; I'd say I 3k/4k 85% of my games and the remaining 15% I lose, either moderately or drastically. I don't always win for killer but it's not a bother because of how often I do win, which in part the fun of games is winning. For survivor it's more like an 85% lose rate, 15% chance at escaping.
Lowering my standards basically just would mean I would outright not play survivor since it's already low enough now and if it got any lower I might as well just never touch survivor
It's one thing not escaping, another to not even have the chance to get into good chases. Bot teammates pre dropping pallets and wasting resources or I have to risk myself to save someone else on hook because teammates aren't doing what they're supposed to do
I think I'm a pretty good teammate, just that perhaps my playstyle isn't up to snuff with the meta. I'm very capable of just genrushing/stealthing/being as uninteractive as possible and being selfish and just leaving the second I get the chance to, but I 1) like to be chased 2) like saving teammates, especially ones who ran the killer for a long time or did me a solid like took protection hits for me 3) just rather not play M1 simulator and sit on gens, so to be quite frank not sure what advice I could even ask (not to say there is none to be asked)
People mean different things when they say this. In a context where the survivor player is complaining that they feel like they only have a 20% chance to win, and that isn't enough for them, saying, "Don't expect to win every time!" doesn't make sense, since the complaint wasn't that they wanted to win every time -- just a greater portion than 20%.
If the advice is, "The game isn't balanced right now, so, if you play solo, you just have to accept that you have less chance to win and try to be at peace with it until the balance changes," that makes more sense, though the situation still sucks.
That's honestly the issue--I'm not mad about not winning every single game, it is just upsetting to not be able to have even a 20% chance at winning. If I play 20 games of a survivor I expect to escape less than five of them in solo queue, and that's being a bit generous. It's not unrealistic for me to say that all 20 can be lost in a row in solo queue
Like this last game I had. Bot billy and he could not down me in chase, always had to leave me despite me being in weak loops. Teammates went down like bots. They also went down in basement. I tried to save them and ended up getting smacked and also put in basement despite two more gens needing to get done. Like what am I supposed to do there?
A game like that is basically how 90% of my games go at best
I have seen posts about this and it's most likely because of SBMM. New killers probably don't start with low enough MMR and it's quite easy to stay low MMR as survivor, you can bully killer whole game and then just die to end-game collapse / killer. This was one of few things I believe was better with rank system, it was quite hard to stay rank 20...
I kinda liked how it worked in Naraka:Bladepoint. Your early games were just only other new players with few hours or bots. Well, my heart was crushed when I have found out about it later, I thought I am so good :(
Not really bad advice. It's the exact same as a new semester starting and you get randomly assigned groups for a project. You don't know if you're gonna get the 2 smartest kids in class, 2 that just talk the entire time and ignore work, or just a mixture of both. In all just don't expect to do well 90% of the time in solo queue cause we all know mmr is just a hot mess that doesn't work.
I think it’s the way it is worded.
I would switch it and tell them to lower their expectations while in soloQ due to the variance of the quality of teammates being inconsistent. This includes things that are out of our control.
I would also advise that focused on the objective so that even if someone isn’t performing to the best of their ability, your efforts will be at least compensated via points and hopefully even being one of the ones that escapes.
Then the game is giving a terribly accurate first impression to new players. If they hope to retain some new players with this, then they are in for a surprise.
Telling new players to not expect to win every time is totally sound advice, about the best you can give. It situations where everything is balanced (yeah, I know), each match would be a coin flip.
Well, this game sucks for new players for multiple reason.
-insane grind is probably worst
You have to also buy lot of DLCs as a killer, not as bad for survivors imo.
-knowledge / skill that can't be used in any other game -> you have to learn everything
It's not that big issue if you have someone who already has few hunder hours, if they are willing to help. I have coached quite a lot of players in custom lobby and it helps a lot. I like to teach tho.
-SBMM doesn't help, it seems
-whole SWF vs SoloQ difference
-alone killer gets bullied
Again, you kinda need a friend who plays a killer too, or watch daddy Otz....
I agree.
Can´t imagine how someone who just bought the game must feel, when he gets like 10k bloodpoints per match and sees how much he has to unlock.
It's good that David is free survivor... I think new experience is way worse for killers. You are alone, you need to also buy DLCs, you need ######### tons of BP and waste them on killers you don't even want to play.
Most survivors start to play as a group, which helps a lot. My friends have stopped playing because of grind sadly...
Not really the same. I always expected the worst for group projects to the point where I just did the entire assignment for everyone in the group because I wanted control over the quality and didn't want to rely on anyone to finish the project as I got matched with people I didn't think were reliable.
The problem is, in DBD you can't do the entire project for everyone. You can't do all five gens, save everyone and heal everyone, run the killer for five gens, and then escape.
The fact this forum continually fails to even distinguish between swf and soloQ tells you all you need to know. That is, its not a good future for soloQ.
The devs have been feeding soloQ players to killers for a long time at this point. It certainly wasn't like that at release.
As a high MMR player its regularly 4k after 4k for killers.
The reality is you just wont escape as a soloq survivor anymore. So if you're basing your fun off that, you won't have any. You have to either get lucky with a bunch of other great soloQ players and have an average killer or just play for hatch.
If your talking about the forums, that's just a tribalistic group think mentality (anecdotal subjective evidence).
All the stats say otherwise, overall killer's are up around 3-4 kills per game.
Official kill rates are barely passing 50% depending on killer.
Where did you get this 75%-100% kill rate from?
That's what sucks and I don't really get what I'm doing wrong since it seems like most others are having fun, or at least more fun than I do.
When I play killer for example, I can get a 0k but get 8 hooks and I can still enjoy the game very heavily and just as much as if I was to get a 4k.
But dying because of teammates being selfish or bellends just sucks, people don't seem to have decent manners when it comes to playing and just outright leave no matter what you did for them in the trial. I constantly get left to die on hook despite how well I do on gens or chase and it's infuriating
What sucks is that despite me being a much better killer, I find survivor more fun to play, but it really is significantly more upsetting to play as well and if I would play 25 games, only maybe 3 would be decent.