Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
About
- Username
- Devil_hit11
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
unless your like craving dbd content, i don't think it is huge hype change. Your still waiting for the chapter to release. I don't think it is wise of bvhr announce chapter so far in advance because there is no guaranteed that said chapters come. I think it is better to just announce them 1 or 2 months on advance when content is shows up. They could announce licensed chapter and for some strange reason, the chapter does not make the cut.
-
@ChaosWam said:
I'd say that's why it's interactive and fun.
You need to run 3 perks and get to endgame for that to work. You also have to keep in mind who you chased the longest. Personally I run it with Furtive Chase and Nemesis on my stealth builds, really interesting combo.If anything, Game Afoot would need a buff.
pretty pleaseeee.
if rancor is that bad of a problem, they could make that after completing a mori animation, the perk deactivates but i think that takes away from fun aspect of rancor.
-
i am waiting for them to buff gameafoot to switch obsession on every hit instead of most chased survivor. how they could ever nerf a perk that 0.50% pick-rate.
-
@MaTtRoSiTy said:
This might help you a bit but yeah, I understand as Knight is one of my least favourite killers to verse even though I know you can mess with the AI of his guards. Just not fun for me personally
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVTP_u7qyL8&ab_channel=OhTofu
this video showcases some of the most problematic AI pathing designs. Like Assassin is completely useless as a guard against a good player like Ohtofu.
All you can do as knight is use Jailer with dried horse meat and zone survivor into 50/50 vaults where they need vault window to mindgame the guard so you can m1 them.
I really wish they remove the Pallet tech where you drop a pallet and the path around it and the window tech where you hit a corner then vault the window making the guard go around the window. those two tech are really bad for the knight. both cases should lead Assassin at the very least to just go through window or pallet.
-
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774341#Comment_3774341
yes one issue with dbd survivor is that dbd is too hard for beginner survivor.This is true, but not quite what I meant.
After 8 years there just aren't going to be that many active gamers who haven't touched DbD. The possible pool of new players is very small. Anytime I bring this game up with other video game players, they already have an opinion on the game. Even my wife, who hasn't played a video game other than the Sims in a long time, knew what DbD was when I really started playing it.
Basically, if DbD is the type of game that appeals to you, you're already playing it, have decided you don't like it, and/or burnt out on it.
So your new player pool is limited to gamers who are just growing into the game, maybe players outside the main geographic gaming regions, or talking players who gave it a try and didn't like it to give it another go. You'll always have new players, but the possibilities for growth is much smaller than most games, meaning the new players don't have that many other new players to go against.
That is on top of what you mention on how hard it is to get into the game in the current state. I got into the game two years ago (after giving it a try a few weeks after it first released), and if it wasn't because I got in via youtube videos I would have almost certainly quit immediately.
i disagree. there is likely plenty of new player that try out dbd daily but the big thing about video games in today's age is player retention. lots of games get bought, people play them and then they drop off because player have no player retention to the game.
My point is that player retention for new dbd survivor is low because the game too difficult to pick up. A survivor will try the game, lose a bunch of times, maybe play it for 1 week and then give up. Killers that try the game typically have longer retention span but if a killer player loses retention, it is likely because heavy grind and $$$ to unlock killer perks.
-
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/422978/mmr-exist
MMR is real. I think hardcore survivor series show pretty good evidence when people start fresh accounts and you can see the level of players they are hitting gradually improve as they keep winning.
BHVR will note whenever this comes up that if you play outside prime hours the quality of it goes down quite a bit.
The MMR for 2v8 is a bad thing to base it off of being that the time it took to match up really extended the MMR brackets to the point that it didn't matter.
There are also pool issues I suspect. There is a giant pool of experienced players, not that many people who are new. So if you're new, there probably aren't that many people to match you with.
yes one issue with dbd survivor is that dbd is too hard for beginner survivor. the skill-floor for survivor is too big. for this reason, i think dbd has a problem with new player retention for survivor.
It is too difficult for survivors to get into the game. a survivor player essentially need accept that they'll lose 100 games in a row before they win. It is not figuratively losing 100 games in a row but it is like losing 15 games in a row and winning one. Something like 10% win-rate. winning so few times frustrates the player so they preemptively leave.
I think only way you'd fix this is by adding dynamic difficulty. Something like generator start at 70 seconds, great skill-check are 4%. Skill-check zones are bigger than usual. This gradually increases to 80 second gens than 90 second. The problem with a system like this is that killer player who is new would feel like they're "weaker" for being worse at killer and a system like this would reveal the player's MMR.
-
@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774158#Comment_3774158
She can't 3 gen like she use to. @shizzy_Pooh in the OG post knows a lot more about her than I do. I honestly feel no matter how they make her the community will never be happy. Although I enjoy going against her. I genuinely feel like I am being hunted by her.
what make you think they won't gut her? if you think back to any unfun for survivor, they have always consistently gutted characters that were perceived as unfun.
Examples:
Spirit with no sound in phase-walk → Considered unfun
Deathslinger quickscope → Considered unfun
Freddy with -Action speed build → Considered unfun
Wraith with extended lunge and All-seeing blood →Considered unfun
Billy with 2 charge reduction speed add-on → Considered unfun
Clown with Exposed pinky finger & Tonic blinding → Considered unfun
—-Almost every aspect of skull merchant kit on forum has been complained about.- Her haste gets complained about because it throws survivors off on distancing, Wow almost like you need adapt to the killer.
- Her hindered gets complained about because you have to Leave loops
- Her free injured mechanic+Broken status effect from trap gets complained about Leave loops
- Her lock-on not regressing gets complained about due to 3 gens/War of Attrition.
- Her stealth is complained about because her footsteps are silent.
- Her drones get complained about because they automatic re-arm themselves every 45 seconds creating secondary objective and people complain about how she can replace disabled drones.
-
i'd change green herb to only reduce infection by 50% upon hooking a survivor. the current infection system for wesker encourages wesker to slug.
-
@Jean_Cobra said:
Hey, i'm a main Dredge, and i have read the devUpdatee for the PTB who come in 2 days. For me, the adjustements are correct and fine for the QoL of this killer, but there is still one thing i'm not agree, and it's the CD of its M2.
One of the worst malus of the Dredge was its CD, it was 12 sec, and 12 sec was too much. It was one of the reason of why some ppl doesnt like the killer, because the Dredge was too slow for every interaction it did, and far too punitive with monstrous waste of time before having the Nightfall. I see that you will change this cd for 10 sec, but to be honest, it's still too much.
I think the best counterpart could be 8/8.5 sec outside of the Nightfall, it will be able to use its remnant more often to counter a loop and would allow us to review the Ottomarian Writing add-on wich is one of three major addons of the Dredge necessary to enjoy it.
The add-on "Ottomarian Writing" could be reviewed in parallel with a different effect wich would be relevant.
- My first idea could be a speed boost for a few seconds when the Dredge leavin a locker, and the effect of the boost would be slighty improved during a Nightfall.
- The second idea could be regarding the Remnant: When a survivor passes through a Remnant, they gain Hindered status during X sec. During this time, the Dredge gain a boost speed during X sec.
- My last idea would be that if when the Dredge does not it a survivor during a chase, the CD is reduced by 2 sec (if we consider a standard CD of 8 sec)
Thank you for your insight into my early feedback, i will come back to this thread after my tests on the PTB Tuesday to share my feelings :)
I agree. i think i will still use ottoman's writing post change.
-
@HexHuntressThighs said:
I was beginning to think that 2v8 was skewed more towards killers based on how often I was winning my killer matches. But ever since the free to play weekend is over and the good survivors are the only ones left, this game mode got significantly harder. Im not gonna complain too much because I think the mode is just mainly for fun but if the mode ever becomes permanent,I think there will definitely need to be 10 generators to be completed.
This is just based off of my experience over the past few days where even when I'm landing 95% of my hatchets and literally downing people constantly cross map. Survivors have managed to finish all 8 gens in 6-8 minutes which is kind of crazy because that's faster than my 1v4s. And its not like my teammates were awful either as they have all had over 2,000 hours except for a few console ones I couldn't see.
This is probably why people are seeing the increase in tunneling in this game mode now that the new players are gone. I still don't tunnel because I honestly don't care about winning all that much. But if they are trying to make this mode balanced it definitely needs a few tweaks.
in my opinion, killer meta for 2vs8 is billy tunneling. you chase someone down in 2vs1, down them, they get to sent cage, billy fly's around the map to find caged target. tunnel them out of the game.
i wonder if this game mode proc'd billy on change list. maybe he was too effective in the mode so they realized his base-kit was over-performing hence change list.
-
generator are… 70 seconds in this mode? 3 survivor on a generator is 23.33 seconds. you lose a generator every 23 seconds. every chase needs to be 15 second long or less.
-
@MaddieMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774022#Comment_3774022
Yeah that and limiting to 3 tokens will effectively kill the perk. No one is gonna run distortion and have the perk be made useless in 2 minutes against a full aura build.
A lot of people are asking for it not to regain tokens while in chase. While I don’t think messing with it at all is necessary, I wouldn’t have an issue with that. I still think nerfing it while not touching the countless aura reading perks themselves, is ridiculous tho.i don't think it needs any nerf. it depends on how hard they nerf it. it is not uncommon for BVHR to soft-nerf survivor perk. It is usually only killer perk that whenever they listed for a change, they're basically dead unless it is something like pain res.
-
wow. that is worse then original version of distortion before it got buffed in 6.1.0. I just expect them to revert the perk to only grants 3 tokens, No longer grants any token regeneration. It will probably neuter the perk but it will still have some niche use for extremely limited aura denial.
-
@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/422888/weskers-is-not-that-good-anymore
The new variants are absolutely horrendous. Wesker can’t ready a bound in time at those small high wall loops to get a hit so he is forced to M1 as a 115 killer. Huntress can’t land hatchets because it takes too long to ready up and they can round the corner easy so she is forced to M1 as a 110 killer. They need to remove those map variants. The amount of added clutter is horrendous.
that is just result of his poor base-kit numbers. as i said, BVHR balances killer to play on the map. Not the map for the killer. strong killer able to mitigate their faults through player skill in some capacity.
-
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773650#Comment_3773650
There are a lot of people that are only excessively hiding, because there is a quick and easy perk that enables this playstyle. If this perk is nerfed good enough, some of these people absolutely will go to a more active playstyle. And it doesn't matter if this number isn't 100%, because as long as it's higher than 0%, that is good enough.
No they won't. They'll just run Sole survivor+Wake up and keep hiding more. They'll spend less time on generators and leave you to die.
-
he was good at tunnelling. other than that, i do not consider him good base-kit killer. his tunnelling was wildly powerful but now they nerfed it. he's a killer with poor base-kit that relies on sliding techs to be relevant.
@danielmaster87 said:
He just doesn't hold up anymore. He's not viable vs good survivors. If you miss at all with your power, or they're going around a loop forcing you to fake and keep cancelling your power, you lose. And with tiles like jungle gyms, shack, even rock loops, that's especially true. Sometimes you physically won't be able to get them with your power, and are forced to play M1 trash. He has like 5 useful add-ons too. The rest, you might get use out of them, or none at all.
he always had tunneling as crutch when going against strong survivors. Now he has no crutch so he is m1 killer vs talented looper.
-
@CrimsonMothKing said:
I think the most recent buff to Machine Learning was a decent step forward. The only changes I would suggest for it is that you can compromise multiple gens at once and you don't need to kick gens twice.
It would make the perk more consistent by far.
or just make it work on every gen once it is activated.
-
QOL bug fix.
-
knight's just needs a bit of cooldown shave. one line change.
-
@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
I think the change is fair considering you can place one trap down, 50% before felt way too long to earn so you would only get use out of Chemical Trap at most maybe 2-3 times. 20% allows for more interactions at loops because you would earn it very quickly, and turns loops even safer than before.
It would've been very scary if they left the duration at 120 seconds, but I think it's more fair but at the same time a much better perk now because it's now 60 seconds only, I'm very excited to run it in the PTB.
i think champion of light is better. the change might be considered a nerf for swf because 120 seconds makes it worse as supporting the team where as soloq doesn't really use any team-oriented skills anyway.
-
they're buffing flashbang from 50% to 40%. Jokes on you.
-
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773111#Comment_3773111
Per mounth there is thousands of matches recorded which for sure is tiny % compare to whole playerbase.
However what it does is to see trends. If something isnt / is popular that means its probably like this in greater picture.
he was kill-switched. his kill-rate is a lot higher post rework than pre-rework. so his kill-rate distribution. He is ok, i still play him from time to time. He kinda strikes me as pre-buffed huntress.
Pre-buffed huntress used to always rely on that green wind-up add-on. Currently trickster relies on Memento blades which doesn't feel good for trickster player. It also feels bad that most of his add-on got nerfed/feel rubbish compare to before. Wacek points out that trickster is also too much reliance on main event to punish vaulting/gameplay interactions. i agree with that as well.
-
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772894#Comment_3772894
HHonestly, they might just introduce something to allow survivors to rid themselves of lock on stacks. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for a survivor to be able to get rid of stacks by hacking drones while not in chase.
i mean they could do a whole bunch of things but usually, when they make changes, they make sure killer's reward is 0 or irrelevant. Like freddy slowing himself down to 100% defeating purpose of hindering for 15%. The reason why they do that is because it makes dummy proof for to outplay the killer.
It makes you believe that your outplaying the killer when in reality killer is just bad. People that think they're outplaying freddy snares are just silly. It will be same thing for merchant. if you think your outliving claw trap and looping the lasers, you're just being silly. BVHR makes sure it doesn't take any skill. It makes survivor feel good that they're having fun. it makes them believe that that they're good at the game.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772718#Comment_3772718
That's already happened to Skull Merchant, though.
Arguably, it's happened twice. I'd count her PTB-to-Live changes as being Freddy tier too.
In fact, SM is the example of doing Freddy tier reworks and it working, strangely enough. She has zero of her original problems and her new problems are generally fixable without a whole rework as well as just not being that huge in the grand scheme of things. This on top of her becoming skill expressive and interactive on both sides, even, moreso than she was before.
the basic pattern is that they need to freddy her like they over-nerfed legion 4 years ago. survivor's like RudJohns will stop d/cing because… the killer is like free win. After that, survivor will realize that more experienced players said that killer was fine and did not need any changes so eventually they might buff skull merchant close to what she was today. the problem is that once the killer is made very bad. nobody will play her because she'll have like 0.05 pick-rate because she is bad. survivors will be d/cing less and.. there will be no complaints because…. there is nobody playing killer. it is like complaining twins slugging exists.
]
-
@Rudjohns said:
Skull Merchant needs the hinder and haste to be completely removed
Step sounds a bit louder
A way to remove scan tracks
And she would still be the most boring killer to verse
She needs a completely rework
she needs no rework whatever. she is in good spot now. She will go from good spot to bad spot. She does not need any reworks either. her kit works just fine.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
IMO there are two ways to nerf Weave Attunement and still keep it decent:
- Let it only show the Aura while the Item has charges.
- Or - no Aura is shown when the Survivor is crouching and they get information where the Item is.
Number 1 would weaken the synergy with Franklins. Which would be fine IMO. They could buff it to compensate for it.
Number 2 would provide meaningful counterplay and, even more important, gives a way to actually locate the Item. Knowing that Weave Attunement is in play is nice, but you will have to perform some form of triangulation to actually find it.
The main problem is anyway that the counterplay is pretty bad, since it still gives huge value to the Killer (Aura Read two times, Oblivious and a big time sink) and that Survivors who want to perform the counterplay might not be able to do so, since they dont know where the Item is.
i think they'll just reduce radius back to 8 meters so it doesn't matter that items are on the floor if the killer does not see anyone. why bother learn counter-play and strategy when you just get dev to nerf perks such they have no potency. no potency → lead killer to stop using said perk → survivor stop complaining. they did same with ultimate weapon.
-
@NerfDHalready said:
i fear crowd control change will be a nerf. like what buff can it get it's already a minute duration, what will they do buff it to 2 mins? make it a non hex perk? i don't think window block having a different/easier condition would be a good idea either.
according to nightlight. it has 0.53% usage rate and 56% kill-rate. the only buff i can see them doing is making all window block while hex is up. I still don't think anyone using it over bamboozle.
-
@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772970#Comment_3772970
DH was reworked nearly a year before Tools of Torment dropped though.
yes but circle of healing was not nerfed. dead hard could still be used infinity amount of times. in order to prevent a survivor from mending in chase and the ability to use dead hard two times in 1 chase, they put that injured require with over-time heal mechanic to prevent synergy.
-
@Yggleif said:
Leverage will probably just be a longer timer
Crowd Control is weird cuz it's kinda pushed already it's just hexes are too unreliable. I don't know what they could do without making it busted.
Blood Rush will maybe be will work after every hook.
Pharmacy is probably to make it work like other item perks and make the med kit a rummage.
Scene Partner I really hope is to make it work with hardened.
Shadowborn just needs a new effect the current one makes no sense.
Crowd control will likely be that all window are blocked when hex is up.
=============================
blood rush. they're likely remove drawback where you need to be healthy to use it. this was originally added for dead hard for distance but dead hard has changed so this perk is likely changing. they might turbo buff this perk and also make usable more then once because perk pick-rate is like 0.2% or something.
-
@jesterkind said:
Some curious stuff on there. I'm especially interested in finding out what they're doing with Crowd Control, that's a pretty good perk at the moment so buffing it might get a bit scary. Then again, it is a hex, so maybe that's appropriate still…
Obviously, I'm crossing my fingers that the Skull Merchant changes are sensible, there are a good number of things they could tweak that'd actually be useful but you wouldn't see any of those celebrated by the community…
they won't sensible. the rework sensible changes. survivor still complain/ d/c.
@iamvladd2000 said:
DO NOT NERF THE TWINS PLEASE. They have clear counter play and are already unpopular. Please buff the pounce charge rate and increase movement speed when pounce is charged.
i don't think they're nerfing twins. you see, they originally reworked twins to make other killer players attempt to play them. the goal was increase pick-rate and increase killer diversify. It is clear this has not happened. no one is playing twins. I think they will adjust the time that victor is held hostage.
Originally victor could held hostage for 10 seconds. This was increased back to 30 seconds. I imagine that they will buff this to be a little less. Maybe it will not be 10 second but it will be 15 second or 20 seconds. Something like that. I still don't get why my power is being held hostage, period. but that is another can of worms. 30 second cooldowns should be when I miss with victor, get kicked. not when i am successful with the power.
-
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772832#Comment_3772832
Much as I wish they'd juat clean up some parts of her kit, I do have a serious concern you may be right.... 😒
you can expect changes like lower haste scaling, lower hindered duration, lower arm trap duration as survivor dislike changing loops so this makes easier to outlive trap duration, hacks disable drones for longer then 45 seconds since survivor dislike secondary objectives… so maybe 120 seconds and probably something for new players, like if you fail drone hack, instead of gaining lock-on stack, you still disable the drone. this allows new player to not be oppressed by her drones thus lowering kill-rate for lower-level. stuff that just makes freddy-tier bad.
-
@Skitten56 said:
I much prefer how Myers currently has a lot of variety due to how their add-ons work. This makes them a fun and versatile killer to play as due to all the options. It almost makes Myers fun to go against since as a survivor you have to do some detective work during the match to try and figure out what kind of Myers they are and adjust the strategy accordingly, which adds to the enjoyment.
As such, I would rather the mori aspect of his power stay within add-ons, but have those add-ons readjusted to better reflect the current state of the game. While Iri-Tombstone is generally fine, Purple-Tombstone Piece can allow Myers to quickly remove a survivor from the game.
A good solution would be to make Tombstone Piece have some combination of the following: Either make it more restrictive, require more stalk charges / reduced stalk efficiency, or make it so that in order to mori a specific survivor that survivor needs to have been personally stalked for x amount of progress. Perhaps maybe even just Remove Tombstone Piece add-on altogether while keeping Judith's Tombstone add-on as it is.
I feel like such changes would remove a lot of the frustration around Tombstone Myers, such as getting mori due to bad teammates or having someone out of the game at 4-5 gens.
Tombstone Myers isn't that strong if survivors know how to counter him such as lockers or staying on gens to force hooks. Tombstone just needs some tweaks to make him feel a bit more fair.
I think big issue with Myer's is PWYF synergy with tombstone. Moving at 130% with instant kills means that Myer's can zone survivors in corner of the map, break a pallet and instant mori. In general, his low TR+combo with mini-wraith speed makes difficult to counter him even when tombstone is being used.
that is why i suggested that his m/s for tier 2 when using purple tombstone is -15% and tier judith has -15% m/s in tier 3. Judith can still 99% a mori however myer has 100% more stalk requirement to use this version reducing consistency of mori the 2nd survivor.
i made a post for how i think base-kit myer's should be buffed and how his tombstone should be weaker. i would assume his mori would still be playable. just not as free as it is currently.
@Devil_hit11 said:
General changes:
->Increased stalking speed by 25%.
->Increased active movement speed stalking to 1.42 m/s.
->Increased passive stalking to 4.14 m/s.Evil Within 1 changes:
→ Granting to detect survivors in a 32 meter radius revealing their aura's.[Lost upon reaching tier 2]
→The shape can now build bloodlust.[Lost upon reaching tier 2]
→ Bloodlust effect are increased by 50%. This means that shape will be granted 0.3(7.5%)/0.6(15%)/0.9(22.5%) movement speed for Bloodlust 1, Bloodlust 2 and Bloodlust 3 respectively.[Lost upon reaching tier 2]Evil within II changes
- Increased vaulting speed from 1.48 ->1.2 seconds
- Lunge opening time increased from 0.5 to 0.8.
-[New] added the ability for Michael Myers to have increased stun recovery rate by 50%.
Evil within III changes
-Increased Lunge opening time from 0.8 to 1.0
-Increases vaulting speed from 1.2 to 1 second.
-Stun recovery rate increased to 75%.
-[New] Every time Evil within 3 is activated, Gain 1% haste for the entire trial. [Max 15%]
-]new] Disables Bloodlust for Evil Within III and Evil within II upon reaching Evil Within II.
Add-on changes:
Blond hair:
When Evil within 3 fully ends, regain 10% stalk to evil within.
Boyfriend's Memo:
Increases Window vaulting speed by 30% in Evil within 1.
Memorial Flower:
When a survivor is hooked, All survivors regain 20% their missing stalk points.
Tacky Earrings:
When performing the stalking action, All pallets and Windows are revealed in 52 meter radius. The effect persists for 5 seconds after stalking.
Dead Rabbit:
Reduces your total terror radius by 6 meters.
Reflective Fragment:
Increases your terror radius in evil within 2 and Evil Within III by 12 meters.
Hair brush:
When a survivor is fully stalked, they are inflicted with the exhausted effect.
Jewellery:
Upon tiering from Evil within II to Evil within III, gain 50% haste for 3 seconds.
Jewellery Box
After completely regressing from Evil within III to Evil within II, The generator with highest progression becomes blocked for 20 seconds.
Hair bow:
Increases the duration of Evil within III by 20 seconds.
J.Myer's Memorial:
Increases your pallet breaking speed by 20% when you are in evil within 3.
Judith Journal
The obsession altruistic healing speed is reduced by 25% for the entire trial.
-Mirror shard
Reduces stalking distance penalty by -20%.
Tombstone Piece
-Grants the ability to kill healthy and injured Survivors by your own hands while in Evil Within III.
-Killing a Survivor drains the Power Gauge by -200 %, but not past Evil Within II.
-Increases the threshold to reach Evil Within III for the first time to 300 %.
-Reduces movement speed by 15% while in Evil within II.Vanity Mirror
-Evil Within 2 can no longer progress past Tier II.
-The auras of all Survivors within 16 metres of your location are revealed to you while Stalking. The aura persists for 5 seconds after stalking
-Gain 5% haste for 10 seconds after landing a basic attack.
-Grants +150 % bonus Bloodpoints in the Deviousness Category for Hit Score Events on top of the regular Bloodpoints granted in the brutality Category.Scratched Mirror:
-Evil Within can no longer progress past Tier I.
-Increases the reach of Lunge Attacks while in Evil Within I by +50 %.
-Grants +200 % bonus Bloodpoints in the Deviousness Category for Hit Score Events on top of the regular Bloodpoints granted in the brutality Category.Lock of hair:
-After performing a successful basic attack in Evil within 3 that would put a survivor into the dying state, Return to Evil within 2.[The amount of evil within 2 is retained, for example if Michael has 80% of evil within 3, He will have 80% of Evil within 2 after exiting tier 3]
-No longer grants 1% stacking haste bonus for entering evil within 3 for the entire trial.Fragrant Tuft of Hair
Grants unlimited duration to Evil Within III.
Increases the threshold to reach Evil Within III for the first time to 250 %.Judith's Tombstone
Grants the ability to kill healthy and injured Survivors by your own hands while in Evil Within III.
Increases the threshold to reach Evil Within III for the first time to 350 %.
Reduces your Movement speed by -15 % while in Evil Within III. -
my prediction is that they're going to add a cooldown to overdrive like you have normal chainsaw → Overdrive →Overheat. Overheat won't disable chainsaw but it might make chainsaw unable to overdrive for like… 30 seconds. they'll probably change those add-on that reduce heat dissipation which will like lower cooldown of overheat for overdrive. A killer that went from S-tier to something more middle of the road.
-
@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772799#Comment_3772799
I don’t think they’re going to nerf her I just think her drones will be changed in some way
doubt it. they already changed those. remember those drones used to be much better at detection because they worked through floors and had bigger radius. they also scanned everything the area and didn't crouching immunity.
BVHR at one point talked about that killers have certain design goal and skull merchant has meet her design goal. She is intended to play how she is but BVHR also prioritizes survivor's fun over killers. they don't mind trimming numbers even if it makes killer bad while keeping design goal.
-
@UndeddJester said:
For anyone needing the source:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GT_DoA7W4AEjwIn?format=jpg&name=large
Good to see Twins getting another look, and Cenobite needs some love. Hopefully Skully doesn't get completely neutered.
Hillbilly though? Unknown? Plague? Quite unexpected...
Regarding the OP... Distortion doesn't tend to bother me as killer. I don't camp or tunnel, but Distortion basically makes it guilt free for me to tunnel. If I'm using an aura perk, I'm not gonna waste time hunting for a Distortion user ahead of the players I can find.
I used to avoid it, but I've actually lost games altuistically ignoring a survivor I could have gone after but left them to inatead try to find the rat. I now take the opinion "if you don't want Cheryl to die, someone is gonna have to show themselves now".
No, no issue with Distortion for me as killer…
... But I ######### hate it as survivor. I hate Distortion users about as much as I hate people who drive in the middle overtaking lane on the motorway and refuse to change back to the inside lane...
They make the rest of us do the work for them because they are too lazy/incompetent/selfish/cowardly to do their part. You can always tell a Distortion user by the way they play, and they're always the players that make anything you do/achieve by and large pointless, because none of the time you buy is converted to anything useful while they crouch behind a low wall doing nothing for minutes on end.
I would love it to be changed to recharge from in chase.
Hopefully Skully doesn't get completely neutered.
Oh she's definately getting deleted. Survivor complain about her 24/7. She has highest kill-rate, The dev LOVE to balance around kill-rates. that is how Sadako/Onryo got nerfed. She's definitely going to Freddy tier section for "Unfun for survivor reason". Remember freddy STILL has not received any rework or changes so your definitely not going to seeing Skull merchant for 2-3 years after whatever changes. They even said they're suppose change him but you still don't see him for like next 4 months.
Idk distortion is good stealth perk but my concern of nerfing distortion is that they'll nerf distortion right but now they'll also nerf Nowhere to hide.
-Nowhere to hide has 24 meter wall-hack
-Moves with this killer
-Has no cooldown
You can easily see them
→Reducing radius to 16 meters
→Not moving with the killer
→Added cooldown 45 second
This is going to be innately a killer buff and than it is going proc a killer nerf. So even though it looks like a good change, it is not.
Bloodrush has potencial to be game-breaking. reset exhaustion for free? Like what is this, dbd 2016 with multiple sprint burst per chase. Like this perk is either game-breaking or nobody is going using it because drawbacks are so bad that you can't use it.
Leverage has potencial. Sloppy butcher lasts 80 seconds but leverage only 30 seconds, so it only makes sense for them to buff leverage to be 80 second to mirror their other anti-heal debuff. this could be good for countering med-kits. Again, they're only buffing this because they're nerfing skull merchant so they do this all the time where they nerf a killer, they know chapter won't sell so they buff a perk of that killer to make chapter sell. they did that on deathslinger where they turbo buffed Dead man switch and Hex:retribution and than later nerfed dead man switch.
This goes on to talk about Weave attunement. Since they're buffing leverage, they're nerfing Weave attunement since obvious franklin+Weave attunement counters med-kits. they don't need this perk.
-
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772230#Comment_3772230
I thought the key problem was that he is mostly an M1 killer in chases, and the PTB changes won't help fix that. Dredge will still be a "if it tries to use its chase power, then the survivor can usually just run away to the next loop or tile" killer.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772534#Comment_3772534
Marvin's blood is probably nerfed, which would mean that Nemesis might be getting nerfed, because it would probably take more overall hits to reach T3.
The problem is that if T1 to T2 is reduced to 5 points, then the current Marvin's Blood can reach that in 2 hits on the same survivor. Marvin's blood would need to be nerfed to be less than +0.50 points, to prevent this. But if a nerf that big happens, without the T2 to T3 requirement being reduced, then BHVR is nerfing every Nemesis player that uses current Marvin's Blood.
Because let's be real, T3 is where his power really shines. And if these changes are going to make it more difficult to reach T3, then it's not worth it.
dredge is like knight. you use his power to make survivor leave the loop. when the survivor is cornered, you use his power to pincer the survivor because his clone allows you to be in 2 places at once. the only significant change that he got was lowering his volume in nightfall but it doesn't say by how much and the 0.75 →1 charge per injured survivor which also doesn't say very much because they might nerf his mal-thinker skull add-on so it functionally does nothing.
-
@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772399#Comment_3772399
I agree with the first part, but I don't think copying 2v8 is the solution.
Apart from the extremely oppressive Escapist class, if there are 8 good players, you are screwed as killer. Before you can reach a kill, all 8 gens are done.
As killer, instead the strat is to injure everyone with Wraith, and slug everyone. Or just keep everyone injured. It's nuclear options on both sides.
Perhaps that gameplay is more exciting than staying at hooks. @jesterkind said that he does not like the killer playing so inactively. ok what about playing more actively like injuring everyone with some of those anti-camp 2vs8 changes? I liked playing 2vs8 mode for killer. it encouraged me to play differently and more actively. the 1vs4 mode encourages opposite gameplay and now your getting nerfed for playing passively. shrug.
-
@Leonardo1ita said:
Ok. Let's suppose, the killer completely leaves the hook @AmpersandUnderscore .
Then, by macro macro pressure, let's also assume they need to go back to the hook, perhaps because the closest survivor pre ran to main building, or because they instantly saved just 20 seconds after the hook.
What happens if the killer, by macro strategy, in that situation is supposed to chase who was just unhooked? Oooops, they instahealed with Resurgence. Oooops they have Second Wind. Oooops they had Off The Record also because their teammate healed them. Oooops now they also have Decisive Strike. Oooops now they use a Syringe to heal mid chase and usually the killers can't do anything in those seconds. Oooops now they have Dead Hard.
But if the killer hits them immediately off the hook, they deny most of these things, most of these perks.
So the killer is forced to do this, because if they don't they get nothing.
it is as I said to @jesterkind, leaving the hook is a risk. apparently, i am playing killer wrong and should getting hit by all these second chance mechanics. while it is possible to outplay survivor multiple times, every chase is struggle if the entire team is really good.
If you leave the hook, you interrupt one survivor on gens to be in chase, and ideally have short chases (which is admittedly determined by skill). The rescuer will naturally stop doing gens to rescue, since, again, it's always in the survivors best interests to have a 4v1 have and not a 3v1 for as long as possible.
Pain res has been constantly getting negatives changes presumably to make killers use generator defence less. goals of making killer less dependency on generator defence. balancing out camping. It is just that there has been little improvement in improving killer's capacity to leave hooks and promoting search chases.The 2vs8 mode is closest mode where they started to showcase proper changes towards anti-camping, anti-tunneling and making the game more about chasing hooks.
If only some of those changes in 2vs8 shows up in real mode like their 200% regression bonus, killers putting survivors into cages, teleporting to cages, less information for killer to tunnel. While these changes still present issues for killers like Hag and maybe trapper, they're a step in the right direction.
This change on other hand where hook regression slower doesn't accomplish much other than punish the killer.
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772208#Comment_3772208
the killer is reacting to the survivor play.
This is exactly backwards. The killer determines the gameplay, hands down. If the killer goes afk, the game boils down to "do gens and leave". The only other things survivors have to complete are things the killer provides as objectives/tasks: chase, rescue, or healing/recovery, while still doing gens.
The thing that appears to be missing here is the picture of how pressure works once the killer has a hook. What the killer wants is for a constant cycle of one survivor on hook, one in chase, one going for rescue, and the last one on gens.
If you leave the hook, you interrupt one survivor on gens to be in chase, and ideally have short chases (which is admittedly determined by skill). The rescuer will naturally stop doing gens to rescue, since, again, it's always in the survivors best interests to have a 4v1 have and not a 3v1 for as long as possible.
Doing it this way leaves at most one person on gens at all times.
If someone is camping, however, the pressure is only on the hooked survivor. The other 3, as long as they know the killer is doing nothing, will do gens. Again, this is because the survivors react to killer gameplay, not the other way around.
If you want survivors to do something other than gens, you need to be giving them something to do. This is usually the big 3: chase, rescue, or on hook, but can also be killer power (go take your pig hat off, go find the box) or even perk related (go find your plaything totem).
killer determines gameplay, the survivor decides how they want to approach reacting to said gameplay.
If you leave the hook, you interrupt one survivor on gens to be in chase, and ideally have short chases (which is admittedly determined by skill). The rescuer will naturally stop doing gens to rescue, since, again, it's always in the survivors best interests to have a 4v1 have and not a 3v1 for as long as possible.
Not necessarily. Often, the best play for survivor is to stay on the hook. The safest spot is staying on the hook because the killer cannot tunnel survivors that are on the hook. It is why many teams tend to leave survivors on hooks, even put into second stage vs certain killers.
In truth, true gen-rushing often relies on leaving survivors on hooks in order to push generators. It is why i really dislike this change. Reassurance is powerful gen-rush perk for survivor because it exactly exploits this exact gameplay. The difference is that reassurance requires survivors to be next to the hook to trigger it. It has downside. these 10 second have no condition. it is free gen-rush with no downside.
-
that is another trash-tier perk. Nobody using this perk because it has 24 METERS radius. it is like 3x radius of anti-camp feature.
@HexHuntressThighs said:
Monstrous Shrine is so terrible that no one will even think to pick it up, even with the changes. For taking up a whole perk slot it should be stronger. I think it should be 45 seconds to lose a stage. You already have to be 24 meters away, maybe could make it 32 meters to help disincentivize returning to hook.
I wouldn't use this unless the perk is at least 60% faster. 60% on 70 second would be 43.75. in next patch, it will be 58 seconds if these hook changes go through. current one is 50 seconds but 24 meter radius in practice makes it worse.
-
@adam1233467 said:
Nope, he still will be a garbage killer in my opinion.
they omitted a key problem in his design. His teleport is too dependant on locker placement. he has nothing in his kit to mitigate rng. I agree that he might still be garbage. I also bet they'll nerf his add-on's like Mal thinker skull so it might not really a buff. a side-grade.
-
@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771778#Comment_3771778
Dredge, Doctor, and Nemesis all got basekit buffs.
Dredge got six buffs. Doctor got three buffs. Nemesis got two buffs.
On the survivor side, the following perks were buffed:
- Mirrored Illusion
- Blast Mine
- Chemical Trap
- Diversion
- Wiretap
- Dance With Me
- Deception
- Flashbang
None of these are even remotely equal in strength to the basekit buffs killers got. Survivors now have a 70 second hook phase duration, and scratchmark visibility was increased (which is a buff to killer)
So, that's 12 buffs for killer vs 9 buffs for survivor.
i think killer buff are pretty meaningless. the only buff that is significant in chapter is +10 second hook stage timer. i can imagine that all killer changes will fly under radar and no one will remember that they happened. same for survivor perks.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772193#Comment_3772193
They only all get ten extra seconds to do generators if you're camping, which is how it should work.
The killer shouldn't be rewarded for just standing in place. If you want your hook to matter, you should definitely have to keep actively playing the game and push your advantage yourself.
I'll say it again, because it really does matter: If survivors choose to ignore a hook and prioritise generators, that CAN absolutely put them on the back foot, if YOU make that happen. What you're describing, where a killer is advantaged while there's someone on the hook, is already how it works - the killer just has to appropriately react to the situation and not stand in place.
Survivors are only advantaged while someone's on the hook if the killer is being passive and trying to defend that hook instead of pushing their advantage. In other words, passive play makes your advantage disappear. In pretty much any other kind of game, if you react to an opening by turtling up, you don't get to benefit from that opening. In a fighting game you'd need to actually punish a whiff and start a combo, in a shooter you'd have to pop up and shoot, etcetera.
This is only a punishment for killers who play passively, not to any particular archetype.
the killer is reacting to the survivor play. the killer does not get to decide what survivor play is. there is suppose to be inherit trades offs between rushing generators and hook-states. Refer to @Zakon05 post that further goes into detail regarding this.
when a killer entirely leaves the hook to commit to separate chase, there is no world where a survivor will ever hit second stage with 70 seconds. An efficient team never lets survivors hit second stage in current 60 seconds while the killer is away from the hook. It is not like hook timer goes 1.5x faster or anything when the killer is away from the hook. If survivor are so concern about killer camping hook timers, why does the survivor not use Reassurance? The 10 second change is giving survivor a free mini reassurance with no downside. it is global effect.
The killer is not getting any free base perks in this update. I respect disagree with survivor getting free reassurance.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772180#Comment_3772180
Ah, the hook timer, got it.
The thing about the hook timer is that it rarely actually matters for you, as the killer. Your expectation should be that the survivor who is currently hooked will be rescued, and it's just a matter of how much damage you can do to the team's efficiency on generators before that happens.
That's why it's better for you that they're stuck on there longer. You aren't milling around waiting for them to be unhooked, you're going and chasing survivors. What you get out of this situation is enhanced by the hooked survivor dangling there for longer, because you're the thing that damages generator efficiency. The more survivors you have out of the action at any given moment, the better, generally speaking.
It's not a freebie for survivors because, frankly, if they make any decisions based on the timer being longer, they're putting themselves at extreme risk of the killer dismantling their gen efficiency and putting them at a time deficit because they need to scramble to reset. You could hypothetically call this change a noob trap enticing players into making bad decisions, if you wanted to be dramatic.
Their generator efficiency in this scenario is up to you. Will you camp and let them use those ten extra seconds? Or will you go disrupt them and generate pressure by chasing? They don't automatically just get ten extra seconds on generators without being interrupted, because it's your job to interrupt them.
the longer hook time delays the rush to need save the survivor. they can stay on generators longer before doing the hook trades. you can read dev post but it is somewhat implied for survivor to get 10 extra seconds for free to do the generator. in my opinion, survivor should be on the backfoot when killer gets the hook. survivor should only be at advantage when nobody is hooked. that is why it is risk to leave hook for killer because you might land up with a late hook. the change also buffs mobility killers and punishes immobile killers because mobile killer are able to leave the hook and comeback the hook quicker. Most people agree that mobile killer tend to be stronger on average so why are we punishes weaker killer archetype? why does hag for example need +10 second nerf on hooks? Why is trapper being punished? so on.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772160#Comment_3772160
It's the default expectation because of the second thing I said: It's a requirement for playing killer well. It's not actually just about survivor fun, it's a combination of the fact that you need to spread pressure to play well - so the game's mechanics should nudge players towards learning that fact - and the fact that the killer sticking in one place and not engaging with the game is fairly obviously bad for the game's health.
Can I ask here briefly, you've said it a few times, what on earth does "hook regression" mean? I'm legitimately not sure what you mean by this, so I'd appreciate some clarification.
Moving on, the increase to generator time wasn't a strict "we nerfed regression perks so we increased gen times" trade, most evidenced by the fact that several regression perks were BUFFED in that patch. It was as they said it was back in that patch's developer update: To make generator regression as a class of perks feel less necessary, while still being an option. It was part of a cohesive suite of changes that all existed to support each other, with the goal of encouraging players to generate their slowdown through their gameplay, not just from their perks.
Considering that, there's no reason to start talking about regression perks in relation to this change. We're not trading anything away with this new change because we were never meant to be camping, and camping isn't necessary to win right now either.
Even if we were to assume that the increase to generator time was a strict trade back in 6.1… camping still doesn't enter this equation. The trade was to give you more time to create basekit slowdown via spreading pressure, not to let you camp more. Even if we were to go a step further and assume that the trade didn't work out that way, the answer is still not to let killers camp, and camping would still need to be addressed— and that's a huge if, to be clear, the trade worked just fine in reality.
Can I ask here briefly, you've said it a few times, what on earth does "hook regression" mean? I'm legitimately not sure what you mean by this, so I'd appreciate some clarification.
the time it takes to go between hook states. there is first hook, second stage and death hook. I am refering to 60 seconds of the timer between hook stage 1 and stage 2. this includes stage 2 to stage 3.
I do not agree with the change. it looks like freebie for survivors where they successful nerf killer perks and now get longer hook stages to further entice generator efficiency.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772148#Comment_3772148
I mean, sure, but the thing that puts you on the back foot is you failing to play well in your next chase, not the fact that you left the hook. Leaving the hook is the default expectation and a requirement to play killer well, it's not a risk.
Camping also does not give you the same rewards as playing aggressively. Remember, camping gives you practically nothing if survivors just all make the simple decision to stick on separate generators instead of running into you. Playing aggressively doesn't require your opponents to make a boneheadedly stupid move, it just gives you that value as a reward for your gameplay.
Remember, again, the PRESSURE from a hook comes from occupying MULTIPLE survivors. Camping your first hook gives you ZERO pressure if the survivors all just stick on their generators. Conversely, leaving the hook and starting a new chase at LEAST gives you the pressure of an extra survivor occupied.
What's being described here is not "brute force", it's extremely basic killer gameplay strategy. You don't need gen defence if you're actually playing the macro game decently well, and the gen defence that does exist in the game is more than enough if you understand it's supposed to enhance your basekit slowdown, not replace it.
Finally, I'd like to address your last comment, and mostly I just want to point out that this is one of the biggest flaws in logic I see pop up in a lot of game communities. There's this temptation to consider a buff "the thing you do if something's too weak" and a nerf "the thing you do if something's too strong", while also strictly defining every single change that happens as necessarily one of those two things, but that's a very narrow and unhelpful way of viewing game balance.
Game balance, for all games not just DBD, is about improving the quality of the game and the experience of its players. Sometimes that's about things being too strong or too weak, sure, but sometimes it's about flaws in the game that aren't strictly about strength. Like, for example, a dull tactic that a player can choose to subject the rest of the match to that may not win them the game but does remove a huge amount of interaction and a majority of the game's depth. Camping is one of those tactics. For another example, the last two survivors excessively hiding is one of those tactics too.
Where possible, it's appropriate to fix those things even though they aren't too strong, and sometimes that's going to include nerfs. As long as it doesn't affect anything else - which this example doesn't - there's no reason to be against that.
I mean, sure, but the thing that puts you on the back foot is you failing to play well in your next chase, not the fact that you left the hook. Leaving the hook is the default expectation and a requirement to play killer well, it's not a risk.
default expectation. why is it default expectation for killer to play for the fun of survivors? the dev should be rewarding killer to leave on their own accord to acquire hook-states. right now they're punishing the killer.
Camping also does not give you the same rewards as playing aggressively. Remember, camping gives you practically nothing if survivors just all make the simple decision to stick on separate generators instead of running into you. Playing aggressively doesn't require your opponents to make a boneheadedly stupid move, it just gives you that value as a reward for your gameplay.
it gives you the ability to pressure hook regression. In other words, regressing hook is more likely. your conclusion is missing component is killer gameplay.
the reason why they are doing this change according to the post is to combat camping but increase time to generator is related to killer's generator defence perks being nerfed. we nerfed generator defence perks and traded additional time to generators. this means that either generator defence perks now need to be buffed or camping should the stay the same. Pop goes weasel should go to 15% max generator progression per kick and Pain res should be usable an unlimited amount times for total of 14%. alternatively, the perks stay weaker and killer gets advantage through camping.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772133#Comment_3772133
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. When I talk about a survivor spamming vaults and being an idiot, I am talking about survivors doing that IN RESPONSE TO the killer having decided to camp, just to be clear.
Camping is dull, not strong. The killer's doing nothing but standing or maybe pacing at a specific radius near the hook, and the survivors only have two choices: Try + inevitably fail to get the killer's attention and lose, or stick on generators and leave. Camping doesn't punish genrushing, because the generators go too quickly, and in fact camping is itself punished by the survivors just doing generators and leaving. If the survivors have the means to genrush on top of just doing gens, the killer absolutely just loses by default.
To your last sentence, this is the point where I really have to disagree with you on a fundamental level. The amount of pressure you get from hooks with ten extra seconds on the timer is either completely unchanged if survivors play like normal, or increased if survivors decide to neglect saves to pump gens. You get more pressure from punishing their risky behaviour, because you get more survivors dragged off generators to react.
That's what pressure is, for the record, it's survivors who aren't doing generators because you forced them to do something else. If someone's stuck on a hook and you get a down before someone's even running towards that hook for the rescue, that's an incredible situation for you. If survivors are neglecting saves to stick on gens, that's more likely to happen, not less.
I'd like to pull back and acknowledge the phrasing "gen-rushing/efficient generator play", because those two things shouldn't be considered interchangeable like that. Camping doesn't punish either, to be clear, but genrushing is survivors bringing the best possible tools to do the gens substantially faster than they'd get just playing normally.
To tackle efficient gameplay without genrushing, though, I'm still not sure where this idea that you'd be "on the back foot" comes from. If someone goes down early, that's great for you, because you can now go chase someone else and stall out generator repair before it can even really get going. I'm genuinely not sure where you're supposedly on the back foot in this scenario, you categorically do not need to stick by the hook and force second stage if you get an early down. Getting an early down makes that tremendously less necessary, even, that's kind of the best case scenario for the killer, you do not need to try and force an unreliable crutch when you're already doing really well. I'd appreciate some elaboration on what you mean here?
Getting an early down makes that tremendously less necessary, even, that's kind of the best case scenario for the killer, you do not need to try and force an unreliable crutch when you're already doing really well. I'd appreciate some elaboration on what you mean here?
It is simple. the survivor played chase poorly. Me leaving the hook to chase other survivors is inherent risk towards failing the chase. If survivor outplays me, the person that is on hook will get unhooked and i am back with no hooks and no pressure. that is called being on backfoot. Killer playing aggressively is constantly on the backfoot because they're not capitalize off any hook pressure. they're relying on their ability to brute force every chase which can work if you win every single chase very quickly.
My question is why I should be playing on the backfoot with low rewards and high risk. If camping gives same rewards as playing aggressively… why wouldn't you be camping? right? that is whole issue. generator defence makes more rewarding for the killer to brute force chases and get rewards for said brute force chases. With rewards being so low and risk being high, it puts killer in lose/lose where they could lose from playing aggressive and they will lose for playing defensive.
Camping is dull, not strong.
Something that is not strong does not need nerfs. The dev do not agree with this sentiment hence they are nerfing camping. You cannot tell me otherwise. 10 extra second on doing generator is 10 extra second doing gens across 3 gens. It does not sound like much but every second does counts in this game.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772073#Comment_3772073
"Too strong" and "unhealthy" are two different things. Facecamping, for instance, hasn't actually been strong since it was changed to no longer block unhooks, but the fact remained until the AFC mechanic that a killer deciding to facecamp basically ruins your match. The same applies to regular camping, to a lesser degree; it may not outright ruin whole matches anymore, but it's also not engaging or interactive gameplay.
There's also the fact that camping in its current state does punish something. It punishes solo queue players for their teammates deciding to be idiots and spam vaults to get the killer's attention, as I said in the message you're quoting. It doesn't take coordination to beat camping, but it does take each individual survivor knowing what is required and wanting to do it, which means you can be completely out of luck if your teammates decide it'd be more fun to point at the killer to both ensure their hooked teammate doesn't get their AFC Deliverance and that the team is likely to die because they weren't doing generators.
Finally, some players - including you, in this discussion - think that camping punishes certain actions, so they're going to try to do it, leading to an intensifying of the first two points.
All these reasons mean punishing camping is a good idea even if it isn't reliably game-winning.
right so survivor misplay. why is exactly shouldn't killer be rewarded with hook regression? A survivor that is spamming vaults and not playing well should be losing. i also don't think 10 second has any impact for soloq team games for when a survivor is throwing game. it is way out of context in regards to discussion.
Our conversation was talking about how camping can be used as means to counter gen-rushing/efficient generator gameplay and how generator before friends is stronger. In summary, when the survivor goes down early in the chase, I am still suppose to be on backfoot as killer despite the other side misplaying. If i decide to play aggressively and chase for hooks, i am still on backfoot because of survivor objective to the killer's objective of hooks vs generators due to generator defence changes.
you get reduced pressure from hooks from this new hook change and you already nerfed many generator defence perks in 6.1 and continue to nerf existing generator defence perks post 6.1. 10 second of generator is not meaningful when perks that added more time are worse. I get punished for survivor playing poorly and i don't get reward as much for playing aggressively. explain that logic.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772051#Comment_3772051
You're talking about genrushing, the scenario where the survivors are not only taking the steps to counter camping, but they're significantly more effective at it.
There's no dice rolling it if you're doing it in response to a match with three or four toolboxes. They're just going to crank out the gens and then come get the save. Camping doesn't punish anything except for survivors that prefer to goof around trying to get the killer's attention.
Camping doesn't punish anything except for survivors that prefer to goof around trying to get the killer's attention.
if camping doesn't punish anything significant, than why change it? Your making it sound like it is not impactful. Something with low impact clearly does not need changes.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772026#Comment_3772026
I'm gonna have to disagree with that. If the survivors brought toolboxes + the accompanying perks, you're gonna be left with one gen at most, because the whole point of the build is that they do generators significantly faster than normal.
You'd have three gens, maybe down to two depending on how long the first chase took, if they aren't genrushing and just stick on generators to punish your camping.
You don't punish anything by camping, you're just rolling the dice on whether the survivors care enough to counter you. It's a boring, uninteractive cheese tactic and there's nothing wrong with it going.
rolling dice is better than no dice at all. I am not opposed to camping nerfs but i am opposed to having no counter-play towards gen-rushing. camping was clear well defined tactic to deal with this gameplay and now it is becoming worse. Survivors reckless pushing a survivor towards second stage →tunnel out of the game into 3vs1 might allow killer to comeback in end game. this change reduces odds of that occuring.