Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Marc_go_solo said:
This class was my favourite. When used right, the gens could fly by because the healer was doing their job of - well - healing and rescuing, so the rest could get stuck in. I only lost one as a Healer so far.
People are probably still trying to understand the roles and how best to use them. With the Healer role, in a good group only one is really needed, whilst the rest power through, or use their Escapist abilities to keep the Killers occupied.
with 8 survivors, you get 600% healing if everyone focuses on healing. you don't need more healing. 600% healing is over-kill in the game. the same can be said about that guide gen class. 600% for repair speed is way over-kill. you can finish gens in record time. the fact that gen take less time is kinda weird considering that survivors are 2.5x-3x faster at doing the objective but there is not 3x as many gens. from 5 → 8 is less then 100% generator. it is like 1.7x generator to do and then when you factor in that each gen is less charges, it becomes more like 1.5x or something compare to the normal game. that is why the games are so fast for killer. on top of that, there is no generator regression perks. 100% extra for kicking gens when there is 2x as many survivors barely slows the game down. All in all, Guide & Medic are borderline useless classes. Yes they increase efficiency of the team but the total efficiency is so high that there is little reason to ever select these classes. If they made generator take longer or healing take longer in the mode, there might be real reasons to select Medic/Guide but there is little reason in current version.
Of course, extending chases and shows your teammate aura of the killer increases healing and generator efficiency. It kinda makes sense that Escapist and Scout are so powerful. extend chases/alert killer presence to the team, 4-5x survivor get to sit on generators. almost twice the amount compare to 1vs4 version of the game.
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trapper is 3 gen killer, In 2vs8 mode, he's 5 gen killer. that is how the killer works. trapping killer are designed to control an area. the 2vs8 maps are way to big for trapper to control entire map. as a result, you have shrink the map to 5 gen for trapper to be able to control an area and use his ability.
@Coffeecrashing said:
I’m saying that if Trapper is going to be in 2v8, he needs a rework, or a lot of buffs that allow him to be way more mobile.
When Trappers basically sit in one area the entire game, it’s frustrating for the other killer. Many killers that sign up for 2v8, want to have an interactive experience with the other killer. They don’t want to roam the map by themselves, while Trapper camps the same area the entire game.
I’ve seen multiple killers DC after their Trapper teammate decided to camp one area for the entire game, and think killers need to be VERY frustrated if they are going to DC, considering they probably had to wait 20 minutes in queue.
your complaining that your teammate picked defensive killer and your refusing to play with your teammate who has defensive play-style paired with defensive killer.
@Neaxolotl said:
Because he literally doesn't work without limiting the area, hell, trapper has been like that in base game too
agree.
@fussy said:
Trapper does the only thing to be viable in this mode?
I tried to be chase Trapper in this mode, because 150% after placing trap is cool, but guess what? There is ultra safe pallet in front super safe near super safe pallet near good pallet. So it's still pointless.
I tried to be usual Trapper, place smart unexpected traps with chases in between. But guess what? With constant wallhack on killers they all instantly disarmed, it takes too much time, because Trapper isn't killer for current game, even more not for this mode, and need to waste literally half of the match to collect and place his power, which constantly cancelled. Even if I had not bad games with this playstyle, all of them were against very bad survivors.
So yeah, see nothing wrong with Trappers trying to be at least slightly playable in this mode.i mean chasing trapper is just not viable 1vs4 mode. Of course it is going to be same thing in 2vs8 mode where survivor have permanent wall-hacks, 3% speed and 20 second sprint bursts.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768415#Comment_3768415
Pressuring people via tp wasn‘t bad back then. One thing that was 100 times better, were that TV auras didn’t exist, which actually allowed you to make surprise attacks, but since they added it, survivors always know where you are. It also wasn‘t mindless pressuring: If you remembered which gens survivors were, you could instantly switch targets and get surprise hits, because the TVs were always near gens and if you needed to find someone, you could check all gens very fast. From my survivor perspective this part was far more engaging than it was in version 2 and is v3.
- Survivor were not supposed to grab tapes, which was the best about this version ever since. The drawbacks were not really a problem. You just needed to play a bit more careful and if there was too little counterplay (which I don’t think) they could have just decreased the tape insertion speed to 1,5s. Keeping track of the TVs to know where survivors would deposit their tape was a big part of her skill expressing, which wasn‘t too difficult to deal with as survivor, it only required a tinny bit of thinking. If she camped the TV you could simply stay condemned until you see a opportunity. If she chased you the condemned didn’t fill up via passive condemned and it‘s not like the ability automatically kills you like with pig.
- I never played her for the condemned back then, so I didn‘t really see that as an issue, but it took more skill and was a cooler mechanic that you could work for. It was not as free as in v2 and was not that much on the survivors to mess up (v3).
- I don‘t see slugging (except of bleeding out while everyone is downed and watching them) as an issue. There are so many perks, that work against it and even without them, it‘s incredibly risky. Slugging can either win you the match or cost you the match. In my opinion this is balanced. But changing ring drawing to no longer work on slugged survivors like they did, would have solved this too.
1.I found the old system fairer, because you couldn‘t just focus one person after another out by distroying their tape multiple times, which they were forced to grab immediately again. Survivors had more counterplay in v1 in my opinion, because they could still deposit their tape in chase while in v2 your only way to remove it, gets instantly distroyed through hits and punishes you even more.2. Now every Sadako spammed the teleport, which resulted in the most boring gameplay ever for both sides. I also started to slug every game since mobility wasn‘t viable/ available anymore in v2
- That pissed me off so much. I really hated this cooldown
- Agree, she was frustrating and boring for both sides. Also her only viable way became condemned, that wasn‘t the case before and therefore everyone spammed tp and focus one person out.
I would not say we got v1 back, because this version is closer to v2 Sadako than to v1 Sadako.
About Sadako slugging…. almost nobody played her like that. It was completely unnecessary to ruin a character, so that 2 YouTubers can‘t play like that anymore.
Disagree there were enough ways to fix her:- If they decreased her TV cooldowns, her whole power would have been drastically stronger and the issue where survivors were not able to grab tapes would have been gone. Or they could have removed the TV cooldown after tps. Both ways would have lead to better condemned spread, mobility and more counterplay.
- Slugging while I don‘t have a problem with it would have been fixed easily by just changing ring drawing to what they did after the first rework +
- Less slugging and stronger condemned could have been archived by their condemned look in mechanic, which encourages hooking
- Condemned could have been buffed by making the radius in which condemned spreads bigger (24-32m)
- Of course the other buffs she got would have helped a lot too. (The things I don‘t like except of the reworked parts are that you can turn off TVs while carrying a tape and the TV auras. Those are bad ways to fix her, because it makes her really frustrating )
Those changes are some ways to fix her problems and there are more even more. They did not need to rework anything.
Overall Sadako 1 with some buffs and todays QOL changes would be very strong, a lot better than the current version and far more fun to play against.
if you needed to find someone, you could check all gens very fast. From my survivor perspective this part was far more engaging than it was in version 2 and is v3.
I am not entirely sure what your talking about because it already exists in V3.
they could have just decreased the tape insertion speed to 1,5s.
They already did decrease tape insertion time. It is bigger then 1.5. They decreased it to 1 second.
If she camped the TV you could simply stay condemned until you see a opportunity.
When your fully condemned, Sadako is granted Killer instinct.
If she chased you the condemned didn’t fill up via passive condemned and it‘s not like the ability automatically kills you like with pig.
If your fully condemned, the passive build-up doesn't matter. Your going to be chased until you die.
I never played her for the condemned back then, so I didn‘t really see that as an issue, but it took more skill and was a cooler mechanic that you could work for
BVHR was changing the killer for player that were min-maxing her ability. There shouldn't be much of difference between V1 and V3 If you weren't using the mechanic in the first place.
I don‘t see slugging (except of bleeding out while everyone is downed and watching them) as an issue. There are so many perks, that work against it and even without them, it‘s incredibly risky. Slugging can either win you the match or cost you the match. In my opinion this is balanced. But changing ring drawing to no longer work on slugged survivors like they did, would have solved this too.
BVHR did see this as issue therefore decided to change it.
1.I found the old system fairer, because you couldn‘t just focus one person after another out by distroying their tape multiple times, which they were forced to grab immediately again.
This is what i am talking about with whole Pig head-trap problem. Sadako tunneling condemn was as much of a problem in original version as it was in V2. They didn't change the tunneling problem, they changed how you tunnel condemn. How you tunneled in v1 was slugging people and teleporting onto survivor that just healed off the floor and proxy camping tape holders by interrupting the tape insertion television mechanic. in V2, Tunneling occurred by breaking the tape multiple times onto one survivor and denying the ability for player that lost tape from picking up another tape. Both versions Involved funneling Condemn onto one person through different methods.
.I also started to slug every game since mobility wasn‘t viable/ available anymore in v2
The mobility was available VERY frequently. I did not feel like my mobility was impacted at all. The player the change affected were player that played character badly.
I would not say we got v1 back, because this version is closer to v2 Sadako than to v1 Sadako.
This version is closer V1 without any of the condemn strengths of V1.
Disagree there were enough ways to fix her:
No there weren't. BVHR simply does not agree with her slugging design and does not like V2 design. that is all there is to it. I have accepted this and moved on.
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@Legendary_deedee said:
She’s actually quite fine. Huntress is way more stronger than her in this mode.
i find billy most oppressive in this mode because he can chase 1 survivor, injure them, maybe down them, but if he ever in contact with another killer, you immediately get 2vs1's. So it is like billy is chasing two survivors at once the entire game.
What also really annoying about billy in this mode is how well this guy just tunnels. No joke, this guy can cage someone, drive around, finding cage person and immediately tunnel them off hook. Once you are found by 1 killer, the other killer also find you and 2vs1 you. so you just die super fast vs billy because… your getting single out and tunneled right out of the game.
Did I also mention that healing vs billy is also really hard? Yeah. it is really hard heal vs billy. he always show up and interrupt you.
You really wouldn't think that billy+nurse is good in this mode… but they really end up being best killers. nurse downs people, put them in cages. billy drive around, finds cages, tunnel them. if billy can't end chase, nurse show up, deletes you and that is all she wrote.
Billy+Huntress is also strong. not as insane as nurse but yeah.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768561#Comment_3768561
Exactly. Also no duplicate killers, and certain killers are more popular. So if there are 1,000 Huntress’s queued up that means there are a thousand players who can’t match with each other.
If every single killer tried to queue up as Huntress then you would never get a match ever since they can’t have duplicates.
I bet if they released all 30+ killers the queue time would go down a bit probably.
i don't think killer is exactly issue. it is lack of survivor players…. as noted by the massive 400% bloodpoint? this suffering from too much success. I mean that is good right? it means that it might permanent mode. needs more killer and… well more refine but yeah.
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i don't think that is reason why queue times are bad. see, nothing changed for survivor in 2vs8. if anything, survivor lost perk variety in 8 player mode because… well it is beta version of the mode.
killer on other hand did lose perk variety but they also gained something completely new. a extra player on their team. so it is obvious that people are trying new stuff… on killer role.
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bad idea because a lot of add-on are spread out and wildly different for each killer. some killer add-on might actual be optimal add-on to run in the same rarity. Like Clown cigar box and +2 second duration or cheap gin is his optimal combo, so he is just getting buffed for free in this system which is not adding add-on variety.
Something like Hag using waterlog show+Mint rag makes no sense.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768413#Comment_3768413
Pointless is probably the wrong word, I suppose what I'm more driving at is, do you honestly feel its even possible to get a proper grasp on the state of balance in this mode within 2 weeks?
I've already seen numerous statements that sound pretty concrete in relation to balance... but I personally feel I'd need a couple of months at least with it before I feel like I could be objective on anything about this mode balance-wise...
no. it is hard to decipher balance in just 2 weeks however first impressions i have off this mode is that generator go by really fast for killer and hook system encourages offensive chase killers and punishes any defensive killer play.
2vs8 DBD is like dbd battle royal. it is a lot more of party game for survivor. there is a lot less skill expression in 2vs8 for survivor. a lot of high end skill expression that exists in 1vs4 is not that important in 2vs8. you kinda win hard early as survivor or fall off just short of escaping.
The killer just has to like… completely dominate the game for like 6+ minutes straight and lawn more over survivors to win.
that is my initial thoughts on this mode.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767537#Comment_3767537
I liked that you could pressure people back then (first version) with your tp, instead of condemned. It allowed you to be immediately chase someone and to immediately switch targets, which basically allowed you to chase multiple people at the same time. This was the form of map presence I liked.
there was no attempts to weaken the 1st reworked version. as result, saying something is difficult to balance with 0 attempt to balance it is invalid complaint.The same way you wish there were attempts to save the second version I feel about the first version. They just scrapped it, but all they needed to do were the buffs they gave her until today without the actual reworked parts.
It allowed you to be immediately chase someone and to immediately switch targets, which basically allowed you to chase multiple people at the same time.
I mean hillbilly could already do that with his chainsaw back before he rework and had the overheat mechanic. That did not make him a good killer. Mindlessly pressuring survivor is not time efficient for the killer if the killer does not get decisive downs. Survivor will hop on generators back fairely quickly. Organization is faster for SWF, slightly slower for soloq as dispersion effect is stronger in soloq.
The same way you wish there were attempts to save the second version I feel about the first version. They just scrapped it, but all they needed to do were the buffs they gave her until today without the actual reworked parts.
Well they did not really scrap the kit. rather they were solving problems in original kit design. Here list of 3 problems in my opinion that they were tackling that lead to version 2 Sadako.
- Tapes are not worth picking up, Picking up the tape created what I will call as "Pig Head-trap problem". The pig head-trap problem is that killer can proxy camp survivors in order to build-up a mori. This problem was compounded by problem #2.
- Condemn build-up was very slow in version 1. The local condemn televisions promoted staying in 1 area and the map that were bigger with larger gen spread made it less efficient to spread condemn. The absolute strongest form of condemn build-up survivors picking up a tape but due to how the penalty of picking up the tape created Pig head-trap problem. Survivor did not want to pick up a tape. In order for to enforce survivors to pick up a tape, the most optimal way to spread condemn was to have mutiple survivors bunch up with each other. This lead to a particular strategy being effective, one in which survivors dislike playing vs.
- That strategy is slugging. This strategy revolves around grouping survivor by downing teammates and since a teammate required one player to pick another survivor up, this meant that within 16 meter television, you build up 2x amount of condemn from a single teleport. Not only that, an add-on called Ring Drawing would spread condemn every time the survivor completes any healing action. Picking up survivors from dying state to injured counted as completing a healing action. So now we're at 2.5x condemn build-up that one single teleport would acquire in condemn. survivor hated this strategy very much so and this created an opportunity for BVHR to change these complaints about Sadako's Kit.
So their solution was Sadako version 2. Not to go through ALL changes, I will just highlight how they solved the above 3 problems with the following 3 solutions.
- Tapes no longer granted condemn build-up. Instead they protected the user from condemn build-up. This eliminated the "Pig head-trap problem". Survivor instead would take 2 condemn stacks upon being hit by Sadako curse M1 attack breaking the tape.
- Television condemn build-up was changed from 1 to 0.75. Television condemn build-up was made global addressing slow condemn build-up
- Ring drawing no longer spread condemn upon completing any healing action. instead condition was changed to only spread 1 condemn stack upon completing a healing action from injured to healthy.
These changes promoted more healthy gameplay interaction with the killer power. Sadako would no longer rely on cheese tactics with tapes however tapes were still part of his interest to keep them off survivors hand by winning chases. Condemn being global meant that Sadako was effective in all maps, not just midwich and Gideon. Ring drawing was made weaker to not reward heavy slug play-styles but still provide a beneficial effect to the killer that selected this add-on.
By no means was rework flawless. it still had some rough edges. some rough edges in my opinion were following:
- Sadako received 10 second cooldown on teleporting. This limited her teleport mobility slightly. It wasn't huge deal however some player took great issue in this change.
- Survivors were extremely upset in playing against Sadako. They found her kit frustrating and oppressive with the ability to instant kill a survivor with 0 hooks.
- In order to protected against condemn mechanic of Sadako, survivor had to keep hold of a tape. When Sadako would hit the tape off their hand, they would be tasked to find another television. Survivor had no information or aura where televisions were located. Further more, Sadako could turn off 5/8 televisions by constantly teleportation to them further limiting survivors options of picking up a tape.
Instead of BVHR polishing rough edges of 2.0 Sadako, we get this 3.0 version of Sadako. So obviously speaking, they nerf the heck out of condemn by making TV local from global due Survivor Complaint #2 and the tapes. They also granted survivor 16 meters of aura reading on all television, halve the insert time of the tapes and remove completely remove ring drawing add-on. So what we get is 1.0 Sadako with none of strength of original Sadako because they were allegedly too oppressive and unfun.
So to answer your question after this long explanation, No, the 1.0 had many issues and wasn't easily fixable because of the extend of what they were trying to change/solve. to this day, they still dislike/disapprove of slugging killer, just look twin rework so in that sense. nothing changed. Sadako in original iteration is part of these slugging killers, slugging mori killer to be exact and as such, she remains bad from condemn power perceptive.
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it is potencial permanent game mode that might happen. it is not very customized at the moment. 90% of killer cast is missing. no perks for survivor or killer. no choice in what add-on or upgrades the killer gets for their power but the base game is neat. the only issue is…. the overwhelming queue times for killer. not enough survivors playing.
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humping is killer version of survivor T-baging the killer at exit gate. it is same thing. just done in the opposite direction.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767741#Comment_3767741
Agreed Deathslinger needs more help than what he got. But I’ve talked to people on these forums who think he needs to move slower while ADS and that 92% is too fast
i think they took huntress buff away for "unfun survivor interaction reason". not a balance one. M/S increase allows huntress zone like old instant scope deathslinger, i'd say a lot stronger because dodging deathslinger shot revolves around doing 0.2 second side-step where huntress hatchets are huge hit-boxes. it is way harder to dodge those hatchets than moving 0.2 second to side against his gun. there is like very little counter-play to huntress zoning while there was deep skill-floor to looping old deathslinger.
that is why i said that first they should return deathslinger's instant-scope skill-based zoning before implementing huntress zoning.
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@Choaron said:
You actually got it all wrong, congratz. Medic and Guides are objectively the most useful classes. Your 3% Haste isn't going to do shite against Nurse.
the thing is, besides killer with strong chase, a escapist can force the killer 2vs1 otherwise be uncatchable. escapist can earn valuable time on your team because even if they delay a down for like 20 seconds, that is 20 second X 7 survivors.
Medic kinda feels pointless because…. your team has 8 healers. that is a lot of healers. generator are also lightning fast. surviving chase and wall-hack killer is very very valuable. the longer you stay alive, higher odds the killer loses.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767745#Comment_3767745
i thought this gamemode is about fun and not winning.
either way, 2v1ing people is certainly viable whenever 2 killers wind up on the same side of the map before splitting again. you can get multiple 2v1s and then proceed to just stomping people with overpowered abilities.
i am almost certain that this mode is new foundation for next generation of dbd. so much so that i think original dbd of 1vs4 might be segmented to side mode. there is over 100k player playing this version of dbd and i cannot imagine that if this stays like 100k for next 2 weeks. this mode is going to be permanent. this mode has potencial to just be standard dbd mode.
really, only thing that is missing in this mode is perks. they would have rework entire killer perk system and survivor perk system if they choose to make this as new foundation for dbd. I could very well see this happening. I would not be surprised if this mode also goes competitive. for now it is just beta mode and it is just fun and games.
Brainstorming perk system:
An example could be that killer get 2 personal perk and 1 global perk. a personal perk applies only to the killer who selected it. A global perk applies to both killers. max 2 global perks per team.
Survivor roles have a role perk. each survivor may select 1 role perk and 2 personal perks. the role perk is tied to the role. the personal perk applies to survivor. This would just be a brainstorm of how this mode would work if it was official main-stay mode.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767595#Comment_3767595
I second that - Same with Plague. Put them all out to pasture for this mode.
im quite enjoying the mode and honestly think I’ll struggle to go back to 1v4 - it’s been a very needed breath of fresh air for the game and made it a bit lighter and enjoyable again. The last thing we need is miserable killers mucking it all up.it seems they're going nerf killers with exposed similar to billy. Idk what they'll do with plague. Likely make it that infection reduces repair speed by -20%, No longer inflicts broken.
Fountains passively respawn every 45 seconds.
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oh no. how could they ever be balancing Badham preschool or Old haddonfield infinities? most of the maps changes are addressing the most egregious loop and maps.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
A) The movement speed buff is quite significantly less than what was rolled out on the PTB. So it's not really an accurate representation of how the PTB change would've ended up.
B) Nurse can get 3 Blinks and Trapper has Sprint Burst when setting a Trap. We shouldn't necessarily be adding the buffs from 2v8 into the killer's base kits. Both sides are generally significantly stronger than what they should be in 1v4 for the fun of it.
no but it does prove that you can give killer certain buffs like trapper getting sprint burst for setting a trap and it would improve base mode version of the killer.
i would say huntress wouldn't be overpowered with those changes. It is just that they should be buffing deathslinger before buffing huntress to be 10 shot deathslinger.
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i miss the add-on for killers and the perks. I do agree with cages and the game being about chases.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767582#Comment_3767582
While this is technically true, going 2v1 against a single survivor is a losing strategy. It's only valid if there's several survivors in the same area or if it's the very end of the game. So having survivors balanced for that kind of pressure is not good for the mode.
i disagree. for billy and wraith, it is incredibly potent to 2vs1. Their mobility allows them ebb and flow through chases and part of that is 2vs1 ambushing. Sure if your chasing a 2vs1 with Huntress and Nurse then your definitely playing it wrong. Nurse is suppose to be winning chases on her own. Same for Huntress. Escapist shouldn't really affect you but for m1 killers, 2vs1 escapist is how you counter escapist survivors.
trapper is only one i haven't figured out how to play yet. so far what i have been doing as trapper is slugging. it seems to be working. poor trapper.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767583#Comment_3767583
If you coordinate with your teammate you can give them one-shot potential on-demand.
i agree. billy is likely most misunderstood killer in this mode for how good he is.
@Krazzik said:
I mean it's basically the reverse of normal DBD. Solo-queue killer is on the weaker side, but 2-man KWFs can absolutely slay.
it is definitely possible to win as killer but it is not a free win by any means for KWF.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767675#Comment_3767675
Yeah, Slugging for a little bit to get a couple of hits off of nearby Survivors is fine. However, Slugging people for over a minute at a time has no real benefit apart from annoying people. Allowing people to pick themselves up without a speed increase would allow the first, but prevent the second. It takes a pretty long time to recover to full.
It really does suck that people are playing in a way like this. It's an edge case for sure, but one that should be looked at.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767677#Comment_3767677
If bleed out wasn't intended, it wouldn't exist.
I don't know where you get this idea from, there are plenty of instances where BHVR have made an oversight on something that has then been patched out.
Just because something exists doesn't mean it was intended.
me and my friend were playing killer. trapper and huntress. we decided that our killer are super immobile and that setting people to cage was bad. Cages cannot be camped, the survivor teleport. you cannot prevent survivor from unhooking. you have 0 information where cage is. It is survivor sided mechanic.
Instead we decided that we down people in corner of the map and slug them till bleed out. eventually survivor would need pick-up their teammate so we would slug these people in 1 corner for anyone trying rescue. If more than 4 people are in the corner, we would cage because of our separate attack cooldown would exceed our ability to keep people on the floor. As a result, any excessive survivor past 4 we would cage.
Trapper is design to be camping killer. he is meant to camp 3 gens and basement hooks. the problem is…. there is no basement hooks or 3 gens to camp. there is only 5 gens to camp and these survivor sided cages. As a result, the only thing that trapper can camp is slugs. Trapper is very immobile. these maps are giant. the setup for him takes forever and loops are everywhere. it is bully simulator for trapper chase people. No chance trapper is getting 24 hooks.
Huntress is also immobile in this mode. a slow killer on giant map. wow. that's surely going to go well. Camp 5 gens and slugging people is main way to stall. It gets people off generators and allow killer to properly camp hooks(slugs).
I really like this new 2vs8 system. I like how slugging is correct form of camping and that "hooking" is more like aggressive "Nurse" aggressive approach to winning. they should have this kind of system in default 1vs4 where hooking uses cage system and slugging is "camping" play-style to win.
Just because something exists doesn't mean it was intended.
If there is bleed out timer, your clearly intended to kill people with it.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767662#Comment_3767662
There are advantages to caging. You progress the game at a reasonable speed. It also gets people off of gens since they go like halfway across the map.
Playing for bleedouts is clearly not what was intended for this mode, and is no fun at all. It shouldn't be a thing.
you know what also gets people off generators? Making people go save people off the floor and unlike cages, You have a chance to be downed by camping killers.
If bleed out wasn't intended, it wouldn't exist. For example instead of recovering for 30 seconds, you'd be send in a cage after 30 seconds. Unfortunately, this is not how it works, so it is clearly intended. Killer have a right to not hook people.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767646#Comment_3767646
You said there's a basekit unbreakable. It only applies on the last cage state.Nvm you were talking about reasons to slug.Never caging anyone doesn't really add any tactical value, it just makes the game miserable. It shouldn't be a thing in this mode. Slugging for a huge amount of time isn't really warranted at all, and since there's no self-pickup boost you'd have to leave them for ages for it to kick in.
slugging is more warranted in this version than base version because killer cannot see where cages are meanwhile the killer knows where survivor is when they're slugged. Survivor also get base-kit endurance AND are invul during the cage unhook animation.
caging people is just free unhooks. there is also more survivor in this mode so group down are more common. There is many advantage to slug and not many advantages to hook.
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i think it is more that gen time is too low at 60 seconds. it should be 70 seconds.
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@TheRivulet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767582#Comment_3767582
While that is true, 20 seconds is too little of a cooldown, and allows for easy escapes against the killers. It should be harder to win chases, considered how much easier it is to do generators
what do you mean by win chases? you can't win chases. you get deleted in seconds in 2vs1. just about every survivor chase for me has been me getting double tapped by two killers.
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the 2vs8 is 2 killer vs 8 survivors. regardless of what chase bonuses survivor gets, no loop is unfair in 2vs1. the strength of escapist is that it makes killer have to group up to down the single survivor but because you cannot have 8 escapist, you can chase all survivor with no escapist.
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767176#Comment_3767176
Slug condemn will never come back and even as a Sadako main I don't think it should. It supported a type of gameplay that much of the community finds either unfun or toxic, regardless of how we may feel about it.
There are ways of buffing her single TV focused condemn though without the need of slug gameplay or a form of global condemn. An increase to the condemn range from a TV like I mentioned earlier is one option. Also current Ring Drawing basekit would be another great choice, while also restoring the add-on to spread condemn between survivors healing each other but not slugged survivors.
It can absolutely be done without slugging strategies, but I don't expect BHVR to make the required changes and thus would prefer them to just leave her as is at this point.
the killer lacks ability apply pressure on the team. One of aspect that global condemn did is made all survivors do a secondary objective because of passive on condemn build-up. This gave Sadako map presence and map pressure. that is why slugging wasn't needed in V2.
In Version 1, Sadako lack ability to have map presence and map pressure because of local televisions. This was ok because the killer would slug players. Slugged survivors cannot do generators thus slowing the game down. This version lacks global condemn build-up in regular sized maps and Slug pressure. It has neither of map pressure tools for killer to succeed.
@jesterkind said:
What Sadako needs is to go back to her most recent version before this one.
That was a power that actually functioned, had clear and coherent counterplay, and had reasonable versatility to allow different builds and tactics from the killer. The elements actually meshed together, the survivors had an actual reason to mess with tapes, and she wasn't really all that strong— but to be fair she never has been and currently isn't, so that's not all that much of a concern for any version. It also didn't really have anything to abuse, save for a few problematic addons that would need to be reworked.
I don't usually go in for this kind of rhetoric, because it isn't usually reasonable, but in this case I really feel inclined to: There was no reason to actually rework her and it seems a lot like BHVR only thought to because of complaints, many of which were extremely questionable in their validity.
I agree.
@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767231#Comment_3767231
I respect your opinion as I know there are some Onryo mains who enjoyed her 1st rework and they have a right to voice their opinion. However, I am 100% against the idea of going back to her first rework. It was just unbalanced and by its nature hard to balance. Either it was going to punish soloq and lower MMRs hard, or it would be too easy to counter in high MMR. There was not a good way to save that version of her. The 1st rework also was less fun to play for most of us old Onryo mains due to how it restricted her power. That rework just was not thought out very well and I am very happen they scraped it.
there was no attempts to weaken the 1st reworked version. as result, saying something is difficult to balance with 0 attempt to balance it is invalid complaint.
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billy is everything i imagine in this mode. fast furious, pressure. i was just catching everyone healing. mobility is so king in this mode.
@drsoontm said:
So, 10 minutes queues for me (Nurse)
The strongest combo I've got so far is Huntress + Nurse : the two range killers of the mode.
nurse huntress is really good in chase but man the mobility on these two killer is something.
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@Skitten56 said:
I'd love this myself. Having survivors actually avoid cursed tapes and be punished would be great. Not having teleport spam be the viable strategy and instead require strategic single target teleports would be great.
However old Ring Drawing can't return, at least not without the nerf to make it not work on slugged survivors. No one really wants the slug condemn strategy to come back. With the QoL buffs she has gotten across the board though she shouldn't really need to rely on such a playstyle anymore to be effective for the average player.
I doubt they will bring old Iri-tape back though, and I am okay with that if they keep the current Iri-tape. However if they did that, they would need to give her a few more condemn buffs so she could have some of the power comparable to old Iri-tape. I think instead of 16m, 18m or 20m condemn range basekit would be important.
Having said all of that, I personally am perfectly fine with the current Onryo we have. I don't trust BHVR to not mess her up again if they tried to rework her so I am content with what we have. Her current state plays fine and is fun while still being pretty strong when played well. We are fairly lucky when compared to the reworks other killers have received, and I'd rather not try our luck again.
if tv cannot be global, slug condemn needs comeback so that killer can apply pressure on the map.
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twins needs victor hostage buffs, not nerfs and slugging needs buff too.
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@ChaosWam said:
Assassin.
Shorter cooldown times, more chances for hits, less being in M1. You can stall with Jailer but honestly, if survivors are smart they'll pressure the gens and evade both an M1 killer and a bot.
agree. assassin is more time efficient. Jailer has less counter-play for survivor but it takes longer to get hits.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767011#Comment_3767011
the difference is that he doesnt get hits for free eventually like SM does. he has to tag a person & tp to them and that wastes some of his precious time in that scenario so a person with EMP can disable a pod on the other gen and add some progress / remove regression event and you can do the same.
he does slow the game down significantly, but if you dont make mistakes & leave 3 gen in a place with windows, you'll break it.
as any 3 gen, it's a game of endurance and a coordination check and even though hux is very good at playing such scenarios, in public matches conditions you shouldnt struggle with that unless you ended up in a scenario where you're out of any resources entirely and the killer has fully secured winning position at which point you've lost.
but in no way singularity is capable of forcing 3 gen from the start and consistently winning against any people that do things right and don't suck in chase.
yes he does. eventually he can teleport to survivors directly where a giant deadzone is created. With add-on like +4 meter biopod and Nano gel which reduces the time to infect someone and TP. you can like infect people from like so far away, teleport to them almost immediately after they've been infected and capitalize off dead-zones that 3 gens create.
He even has a secondary objective in these Emps that also slows the game down further. Obviously if you don't remove infection, he gets immediate teleport's. I think you can just force 3 gens right at the start as singlurarity in new version and win teams with it. his 3 gen is that good.
While SM is good generator defender, She's not that good at initiating chases. Singularity is both good at defence and initiating chases.
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@k3ijus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/421524/buff-hag-to-4-6-m-s
The issue is the fact changing her to 4.6 is actually impractical, the difference is almost unnoticeable as 5% haste is 2-3 seconds faster across whole map.
wouldnt it be better to buff her power? Like adding a ability to teleport to traps without the need of a survivior? Maybe add a cooldown to it? Maybe buff amount of traps
the issue is that her power is already good. what is not good is hag sucks without her power. that is why buffing 4.6 m/s makes her less reliant on ability.
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@Vorahk08 said:
Singularity and Skull Merchant are not comparable. The reason Skull Merchant was so bad was because her power enabled players to take advantage of gen spawns to literally hold the game hostage and force a win. That's not even possible anymore.
Singularity has counterplay, it's just not conventional. His chase ability heavily neutralizes the usual killer counterplay, so you have to understand how he plays in order to exploit his weaknesses. A good rule of thumb is to assume that he can generally find you if he really wants to, as long as he's set up his cameras properly.
Pre-EMP'ing pods when working on gens is a good way to keep him from teleporting to you. If you only pop an EMP when he hits you with a slipstream, then he will probably have enough time to get a teleport off, or he will quickly place a pod to hit you with another Slipstream mid-chase.
When he's chasing you, vaulting is a good way to throw him off, because he is always teleporting behind you to where you were a second ago. If you time it right, he will be stuck on the other side of the window and have to vault to continue the chase. With pallets, greed them as much as possible, and you can hit him right as the Overclock mode ends to get a stun.
If one only uses pallets like he's a normal M1 killer and use EMP's when you get Slipstreamed, then he has the advantage because his kit generally counters that.
singlurarity is amazing at 3 gens. he takes advantage of gen-positions. I have been seeing a lot of 3 gen singularity in soloq with grey add-on that increases biopod range by +4 meters and Nano gel which decreases camera cooldowns. Once they fix gen exploit, i can see this character being old skull merchant 2.0 where the games take long time to complete.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766222#Comment_3766222
Your idea would also been good, but no like you said behavior always has to murder perks. They did the same with MFT, where they could have tried 2% speed when not exhausted.
Maybe the UW nerf came for pig. I suggested in the past, that when people get interrupted at boxes the search progress regresses over time, but no they butchered both instead of an easy fix.
I‘m scared what they will do to Myers. They will probably do a really bad rework, which nobody likes and call it a day or it will be busted. I really want that they revert Sadako and her addons back to her first version, but keep the buffs and pig should get her auras back.
they over-kill made for this too. the perk needed more drawbacks like dh but they remove accessible speed and as such, the perk vanished. in general, bvhr is not really known for reviving killer perks but they are known for reviving survivor perks so maybe MFT gets Decisive strike, Iron will etc. treatment where they change it again to be usable.
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@OrangeBear said:
Trickster wasn't buffed to 4.6 because of MFT he was buffed because his power does not work at every loop and so he can generally get around the map faster
yep. it was bvhr solution to make his knives better…. personally i would just prefered no m/s loss when holding knives as 4.4 m/s. I never want to be in m1 mode anyway so might as well make M2 mode as only mode for trickster to be in.
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@Predated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766184#Comment_3766184
Baseregression isnt the issue there, oppression is good because it regresses gens like Ruin, where it doesnt count on the max 8 gen regressions.
The main issue IMO, is that it doesnt give you info on which gens are affected. I think if that was part of the perk, it would be SO good.it is the issue. the reason why people pick pain res/jolt is because the flat regression values. For example, Jolt is 8% for 7.2 seconds. in regression time, this is 28.8 seconds. How long would it take for Ruin for example to catch-up to Jolt. if you give ruin double the time to regress gen, 57.6 seconds for default regression to catch-up to 8% of Jolt. For pain res…. it is like worse. pain res is 20% which is 18 seconds. 18 second is 72 second of regression. you would need a gen to regress for like 144 seconds with default regression to match 1 pain res proc. that is like eternity in game time.
Ruin is like better as well because it is automatic where as oppression requires to physical invest time as killer to kick gens. the reward just isn't there. So of course nobody is picking oppression over Jolt/Pain res. they won't even pick it over eruption/pop because those two perk are also superior.
Information wise? well… there is merit to oppression+surveillance as info combo but there is also…. perks like nowhere to hide and BBQ that give way more reliable information on average. In summary, Oppression isn't good enough stand-alone slowdown perk and surveillance doesn't match up to more reliable info perks.
the reason why i used on demogorgon was because they nerfed lepros lichen where you don't get information globally but demogorgon has to keep his portals closed because survivor can cleanse portals if they're open. So i was using as info perk to get old Lepros Lichen Effect.
On knight, i was using this perk because he can kick gens from far away with 0 cooldown. Now his ability has cooldown so kicking gens far away with knight is bad. i only used surveillance by itself, never used oppression with knight even though knight has potencial to use it if he equips surveillance. Now I run Hex:face the darkness+Undying with Knight. I used screams/aura as info instead.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764992#Comment_3764992
Excellent, so we agree.
So if the average survivor isn't good enough to use these sound cues, then removing them won't hurt those survivors, all it will do is buff these killers against the high level survivors, who do use the sound cues. Survivors who, these killers probably need some buffs against. Would that be correct?
balanced around bad players. /shrug.
@Gylfie said:
I was ambushed by an undetectable Leatherface yesterday and jumped out of my chair. He had a perk I had never even seen before, Machine Learning, so it really came out of nowhere. He really is 100% silent.
I died in-game and IRL.
i wonder how many people have I jump-scared with Tinkerer bubba.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766237#Comment_3766237
It‘s not even the speed for me, but my power always runs out right before the pallet hits me.
what i did is just put coup the grace on him. the perk allows me to lunge into pallets properly and makes overclock work properly. still, a killer power that is useless a tiles if survivor plays correctly is sad. I also suggest putting rapid brutality on him and hope survivor doesn't understand how to break LOS/use sprint burst to instant drop pallets.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766169#Comment_3766169
you get to use it pretty often if you tp to a person who's already in a tile and cant w key away
yeah but you don't hit them. your too slow and too far away. another slugging killer nerf.
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@Langweilig said:
The nerf went in the wrong direction like always nerfs aren‘t reasonable. They only needed to increase the cooldown a bit or/and make it‘s duration shorter/longer.
The only killer that can use it now is pig. Wow.
i thought the nerf they were going give it is that perk deactivates upon first person that screams. so for example if you open a locker and 2 people around, both survivor scream. if you open a locker and nobody screams, the first person to enter your TR screams.
Unfortunately they didn't nerf it in respectable way. they just murdered the perk downright. Judging from Pig rework and Onryo changes, I'd say the ultimate weapon was exclusively Pig targeted nerf.
Someone probably faced Michael Myer's tombstone →Head pop pig → Onryo Mori in one day and decided that there is too many mori's in the game so we should delete 2 of them.
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it made big difference.aka nobody runs it. Now survivor just complain about franklin demise+weaving attunement.
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@MrT1412 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766171#Comment_3766171
Oppression + Surveillance isn't bad in my experience.
i've used it before on demogorgon for portal ambushing and on knight. i don't think oppression is good enough. it will only become good enough when base regression is increased to like 200% than people might use it.
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@jamally093 said:
So since some perks got reworked thought I would see maybe Oppression would show up a bit more. I tried it and enjoyed it since it basically does three gens at once and has a short cool down now so I thought hey maybe some folks will try using those other killer perks but nope still just Surge and Pain Res everywhere. Even Dragon's grip a perk that gives some info and an insta down for just a 40 second down. I went a break from the game for about a couple days aka 5 days to see if maybe some players would try a new meta.
oppression is weak because base regression is weak. buffing it doesn't do anything. dragon grip doesn't need cooldown. it sucks with 0 cooldown. Darkness reveal has no radius. duration never mattered. it is likely they buffed it only aura reading nurse in midwich to be more obnoxious.
as i suspected, Babysitter has no pick-rate, so in the end, i was right that it wasn't good enough for players to run.
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he is definitely weaker. less duration and 2% less speed is more significant than anything else he received. I remark this immediately in the PTB.
@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766003#Comment_3766003
i think it's fine they got rid of it bc now he has more interactive counterplay than predropping in any scenario
in my experience, i haven't been able to use his window vaulting boost. ability runs out too quickly.
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BVHR is not going do anything about it besides balance around its existence for killer. that means that if a killer is too strong in soloq, it is whatever because it has to be balanced around SWF.
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they buff perk twice and still nobody considers the perk. wait for a 3rd buff.
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my only issue is cooldown increase.
The secondary issues
- depletion rate is slightly too aggressive at 3.0x. it would be better if it was 2.5x.
- the guard distraction mechanic makes guards too easy to outplay in 1vs1.
If they just lower his cooldown to 4 seconds. i'd be happy. i will still play knight because i like his tracking gameplay and his tactical gameplay approach but cooldown really does feel bad. It is like 4 second fatique cooldown on Old legion when he was reworked. secondary changes being address would be a great bonus.
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they already did. trickster is an anime character. players said that trickster is not horror. they have have not done a licensed anime horror. i do not see it likely. the closest they have done to adding licensed anime horror is clash of the ttians but it was only skins.
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@Phantom_ said:
I thought Claire and Leon made your ears bleed, but Lara is here to take the 1st place for being the loudest, jfc. I've made so many feedback suggestion posts regarding the horrendous audio levels of this game. But atp I genuinely think that the devs want people to get tinitus or they're all hard of hearing and don't realise how gd loud their game is.
Just hit the survivor on hook or tab out if you can. I know most see it as BM-ing to hit on hook, but I rather explain myself in egc than get deaf.
almost like they invented calm spirit and that lara hardened perk for QOL.