Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783664#Comment_3783664
Those are my thoughts exactly. Just to help me regain my vision.
no. that is xeno and demogorgon special, well demo needs iri add-on for it.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Superior Anatomy is only 40%. I think buffing DA to 30% might end up stepping on Superior Anatomy's toes a bit.
That said, they COULD buff DA to 30%, and Superior to 50%…
I'd like to see DA buff pickup speed as well, the only perk that does that right now is Fire Up, and it'd make sense considering that pallet save stuns last longer as well.
superior anatomy should affect pallet breaks and have no cooldown. activation to vault still exists. dark arrogance should be 40% for window vaulting.
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/424341/iron-will-needs-a-change
I feel like they buffed it the wrong way, I would've kept it at 75% but simply remove the requirement of not being exhausted.
the exhaustion requirement is only counter-play to the perk. running mindbreak is only thing you can to do to disable the perk.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783497#Comment_3783497
Pallets are supposed to block your way, that's why you can break them. You're not supposed to be able to ignore every single pallet in the game.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783503#Comment_3783503
It's not all that hard to get hits with Slice and Dice as long as you know the range on it. Perhaps you should stop using it as a catchup tool unless the Survivor you're chasing is within the actual range of the power.
right.. i cannot decide the angle of loops or what loops survivors decide to pre-run towards. I am 4.4 m/s like…. I will always be behind the survivor. Not using Slice & Dice as movement ability does not make any sense. In the situation i am describing, I am in range to hit the survivor, I just can't angle ability to hit them.
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783520#Comment_3783520
This does not mean that Chuckys Scamper should make Pallets useless and guarantee a hit every time. Saving his power until the Survivor has to drop a Pallet to just scamper under it for the hit is a really unhealthy way to use a power. And I dont even think there is any discussion, lose-lose situations are always bad, because they remove any skill component.
but i am not talking about saving scamper to manually vault, i am talking about using my S&D vault to get the hit…. aka the ability. it is not guaranteed hit, i still have to hit the ability. my skill for how well i play determines the abilities effectiveness. How much skill i need to land the ability is based off survivor movement skill.
I dont even think there is any discussion, lose-lose situations are always bad, because they remove any skill component.
what about lose-lose situations for killer? i can't hit the ability of the survivor plays correctly, 0% chance, no angle. Don't tell me that i shouldn't use my ability on the most problematic loops in the game. if it is not good vs strongest loops than when i am suppose to use Scamper? Never?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783235#Comment_3783235
There is a trick with God Pallets. Most Killers can use this trick.
Break them.
palllet breaks waste your time and time is precious on killer.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783251#Comment_3783251
I'm kind of on the fence about that one, since Slice and Dice is already very good as a chase ability.
You don't want to get to a point where he never needs to break pallets because he can outplay them just by existing, that's why Scamper was changed in the first place.
So explain why I should have no counter-play towards pallets that block my way where you cannot get around them in any capacity? What makes Ormond's top floor main building pallet fair? If i have skills to outplay said pallet, why am i not allowed to use them?
Shack and Jungle gyms are the same problem. The survivor can drop the pallet and if you try to vault this pallet with his S&D, the survivor can angle themselves in such a way that i cannot hit them. When i miss, the survivor slides over. bad design.
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@baharuto48 said:
No. I mean a perk to leave survivors in the dying state until dead. It's too powerful to have basekit.
Survivors should be able to revive themselves unless the killer takes the perk that let's them slug.
maybe survivors should not be able to heal other survivors. it is too powerful. they should need to run a perk to unlock healing action. equivalent statement.
for reference, No mither does allow you to endless pick yourself up but removes your healing action.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782459#Comment_3782459
It is only for the atmosphere, nothing else. She had it in the movies and therefore now. At the very least they should make it like dredge‘s lullaby is, where it firstly doesn‘t trigger the visual heart beat and secondly that they remove it being directional. I actually think the worst part of it is that it is in the visual heart beat shown.
the atmosphere is her terror radius. every killer's atmosphere is their terror radius.
@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782280#Comment_3782280
The visual heartbeat is for survivor that are deaf. it is noticeable enough for me, aka experience player to know she is precisely in the area. It is balanced around experience players… but there is many survivor that inexperienced/do not use tools at hand so visual heartbeat looks like huge buff.
I know, but it isn‘t really noticeable for most players that aren‘t deaf. It‘s as loud as Myers breathing and that is not in the visual heart beat either. Even dredges sounds were more worthy to become a lullaby than sadako’s lullaby, but there it would actually make sense to be one, because it is very loud (before the next patch changes it). The lullaby being in the visual heart beat completely defeats the purpose of her undetectable and really only serves the purpose to make her stealth specifically terrible.
This precise sentence explains why her 2.0 rework changed into this 3.0 rework. No she was not be busted. She'd be decent where she was prior said change
Current condemned build up speed is a lot stronger than on 2.0, but turning it off is free. 2.0 still had the cooldown, which limited it very much. Now maybe add breaking tapes or old passive condemned back onto it and survivors loose whatever they do. Shure we could give tapes minor draw back like removing TV auras and her lullaby becoming permanent, but this wouldn‘t change anything.
It would be extremely unfun for survivors like she was in 2.0. Shure she was not busted there but very unfun.
If this chase power was supposedly buffed, the uncloaking would function like wraith's lunge except instead of going faster, She'd be near completely invisible. It is just that her chase power is completely under-tuned and dysfunctional to the core. Just like her current condemn mechanic.
Agree and like the idea. I would even be happy if she could just vault windows and break pallets while being invisible instead of becoming visible the moment you do those and her not getting slowed down when manifesting and demanifesting.
Something that hit me and i didn't notice this for longest time but the actual invisibility, flickering when your demanifest mode is flipped. The 1 second duration invisibility which is suppose to be 1.25 second is suppose to be her uncloak invisibility and the flickering is suppose to be passive phasing. Now i don't know if this was done on purpose or just an error in code implementation but i am pretty sure that is how chase power is suppose to work.
So all they need to do to make chase power good is just flip all these numbers. Currently, a Sadako player figured out that you cannot stagger your invisibility with uncloak invisibility. it actually resets the invisible flicker timer. this does have some … implication in resetting the phase walk timer but i don't think it is useful in most practical loops. they would also have to flip all her add-on functionality. Her directional lullaby for invisibility is there to not make her spirit 2.0 If her chase is ever rework/buffed to function properly.
I struggle to understand it honestly, maybe you could explain it again a bit easier.
1.0 Sadako at base-kit was same. I have to remind you that these televisions had 100 SECOND cooldown for being used. there is reason why every Sadako ran Iri-tape for this 100 second cooldown. coming into 2.0 Sadako, they did reduce her TV cooldown to 45 seconds however her mobility was still hampered. It was more usable then old 1.0 base-kit but it still had limitations.
The coldown was too long shure, but you could play around it and you could at least use it once before it was on cooldown and it wasn‘t too frustrating with all the stuff you had to shorten it. Now we have them like always on cooldown without using them once before and when they are not turned off, there is probably no one there.
So in every iteration, it has never been a free unlimited teleport at base-kit. Iri tape was closest that she had for free unlimited teleporting until the add-on was nerfed in 3.0.
Yes, but her old mechanic with passive condemned and no TV auras allowed the most you could get even with long cooldowns.
Her iri tape was a great addon and very creative, I miss it so much. It made her so good in every way.
Current condemned build up speed is a lot stronger than on 2.0
Because they removed skill component the killer. the tapes. I don't really agree. 2.0 condemn was extremely fast and very potent.
I struggle to understand it honestly, maybe you could explain it again a bit easier.
When you press m2, If you are invisible, you become visible and the timer to flicker is reset. you cannot stagger your passive invisibility with de-cloak invisibility. if you could and the mechanic wasn't bugged, you could chain her 1.25 second invisibility with 0.75 second invisibility with old newspaper+Reiko's watch to be 2 second total invisibility.
All i am saying is that if you were to make her current her post flicker mechanic after exiting cloak and flip it with passive invisibility and then take her current passive invisibility which is currently bugged and put it on her M2 after decloaking, Sadako has potencial to be very potent M1 killer.
She'd be near invisible through out entire loop. Like make no mistake, her ability has the capacity to be a very potent anti-loop tool. The mechanic simply is not tuned correctly. Bvhr is skeptical in buffing this mechanic because 1.0 spirit was considered unfun by many players.
While I didn‘t suggest removing it completely, I think it wouldn‘t make it unfair, because she can‘t strack instantly like every other killer, which is a big draw back. I suggested/requested it getting removed from the visual heartbeat since you also agree with me that it is almost not noticeable, which means there is no real disadvantage for deaf people. And it shouldn‘t be directional both of those defeat the purpose of a stealth ability.
They do not need to change anything in regards to how mechanic works. Simply adjusting the numbers. For example instead of having a non-standard 24 meter radius, They can tune it to be 12 meters. In this way, you'll still hear screeching at loops but you will not be able to notice the mechanic outside of chase. Even survivor with visual TR will get the terror radius bubble far too late in many cases to make any move.
I do not see Sadako anywhere on the road map. As result i do not see any upcoming changes.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Honestly I wish they'd bring back Window Scampers, at the current speed it's slower than a T3 Myers vault. It'd also allow him to move around more stealthily since vaulting a window regularly makes a loud noise.
On demand Pallet Scampers were kind of busted though. Plus the fact that removing them allowed for the lower cooldown which is honestly really fun.
Add back Window Scampers, rework some of the addons that only really worked in the context of on-demand Scampers being a thing (mainly Hard Hat, Running Shoes and Yardstick) and he'd be basically perfect.
i think that chucky needs a curving window after scampering for 0.5 seconds where he regains full control of his character while dashing. I don't understand why i am breaking pallets as chucky when i have pallet vaulting. before the change, i never broke a single pallet as chucky.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I see him quite often (compared to other Killers at least). And the changes to his Scamper were excellent. Players who are good with Chucky got Buffs, players who only used Scamper for really cheap Heats got Nerfs.
So if you are good with Chucky, you just won, if you were bad, you lost. As it should be.
what, no. chucky cannot counter god pallets anymore. People that were bad with chucky weren't doing good before change. nothing changed for them.
Chucky became stronger at map presence and deadzones but worse vs strong loops/god pallets.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783080#Comment_3783080
xenomorph regains his movement speed on a curve and therefore loses less distance.
the cooldown for tail is 3 seconds, but xenomorph isnt stuck at 25% speed for the whole duration if the hit was successful. that's only the case if the tail hits the turret or misses.
if you hit the survivor you go back to your normal speed over time while the cooldown lasts, meaning you'd be better off hitting people with the tail whenever possible if they're going to run away from you, as you'll start catching up way faster than you otherwise would with m1 attack that doesnt have that mechanic and slows you down equally for the whole cooldown.
all m/s reduction and m/s boosts follow a curve. I am not sure if it is same curve universally for all of them though. If you shorten the cooldown such as running unrelenting perk, you lose less distance because your curve to regain m/s stops quicker. with that being said, his cooldown is very long that he slows to a crawl.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783050#Comment_3783050
obviously, but nonetheless you maintain decent distance after successfully hitting survivor with the tail.
and unlike missing, you regain you speed faster while if you miss, you're stuck at 25% speed for the duration
no. it is similar to m1's. it might be worse because i think his cooldown is 3 second. m1 is 2.7.
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the skill requirement to play the killer /= rewards for playing the killer.
@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783033#Comment_3783033
FYI - hitting survivors with tail has longer CD, but you lose way less distance due to speed curve being different. Hitting people with tail is sorta like having an equivalent of 3-4 STBFL stacks as that's roughly the distance you preserve.
the m/s is like 25%. it used to be 50% where you had like 3 stack of stbfl. that was the nerf.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783012#Comment_3783012
Yes, something like this. I am not asking for damage per direct hit but at least reset or refund some portion of the weakend effect to at least give you extra chance to fire again if you hit at least directly something.
it already works like that. you get 50% of weaken state back if you injure someone with UFX. the problem with unknown is that his weaken effect is does nothing. it is only there to increase required hit count for his range power. He has bouncing mechanic to his ability but he has no reward for utilizing the direct hit mechanic.
I hope they make his weaken state do something like actually weaken the survivor if they don't look at him. Maybe the survivor suffers 3% hindered so his m1 game is better. it would simulate the killer weakening the survivor. He also needs some add-on's base-kit like that blurry photo add-on.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782810#Comment_3782810
I mean Wraith only has that fast of a break because he literally can't attack while cloaked. They'd be silly to give that kind of pallet break speed in a regular scenario.
he has add-on that instantly decloaks him for breaking a pallet. So they're silly for having that pallet break speed? Singularity also has it as well and he can attack.
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@Predated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782734#Comment_3782734
Ruin Pop was complained about because it was the only thing you saw. Kinda the same reason why people (still) complain about Prove Thyself.
And same with Ruin Undying after the Undying nerf, mainly because it was so common.
Every other gen regression meta was rightfully complained about, because there always was a balancing oversight with certain killers, or a new gen regression perk is added with almost 0 consideration of the effects with other perks.
Gen Regression is very easy to overtune, especially considering more regression, gen blocking or slowdown like thana. Having them be exclusive, its much easier to keep em balanced.if you killer to go for more chases, they need more time to do that. these perk are shadow of their former self. you should be explaining why you think these perks are over-tuned.
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@Revvium said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782854#Comment_3782854
We've seen 6 knife Trickster, as previously stated was NOT an issue and classified as high C low B tier by most of the community, ramping is a QoL feeling fix, 6 knife allows for tapfiring playstyles to exist. As i've previously stated, Yumi's murder was in the game previously, you're suggesting Trickster have another equivalent of Map of the Realm instead of fixing the core issue plaguing his addons balance (the high laceration meter) Memento blades is also an addon that is mandatory, and I don't like how many options keep feeling like they only benefit the spam playstyle when its clearly the most supported style already.
He doesn't need regular mode AND Main Event to both be rapid fire, and asking for more rapid fire only puts the Trickster players that are crying out for solutions more into their grave. Skill expression needs to make a return, otherwise this character is always going to be garbage in high level play as making it good without any limiters would result in modern day Skull Merchant levels of non-interactive looping.Just to clarify again, we have tried an addon like Yumi's Murder and Memento Blades, the design becomes opting in to winning. You should never have to opt in to raw power efficiency that makes you stronger across the board, its just a lazy way of designing addons like:
- Map of the Realm
- Mother Daughter Ring
- Barbs Glasses
- J. Myers Memorial
- Windstorm
All of these addons are straight up efficiency increasing and to some degree all of these addons were rolled into base-kit of the characters or likely will be eventually if they haven't been yet, why would we ever turn back the clock on mandatory addon design being reduced just to get a design that worked before? I'm perplexed as to what limiting player choice does for the games health or player enjoyment.
P.S. comparing current Trickster to OG 3 years ago Trickster is a curveball that I don't understand what its relevance is, yeah its better than the unplayable existence of OG Trickster which was fully inaccurate and was this Trickster but worse, so?
-Rev 😘
by most of the community, ramping is a QoL feeling fix, 6 knife allows for tapfiring playstyles to exist.
His tap-fire still exists. the functionality has not been removed. the only thing that has changed is number of hits for tap-fire to injure a health-state. in fact, tap-firing is still my most prefered way to deal with wall-blockers. that is why changing his m/s would be bad change.
you're suggesting Trickster have another equivalent of Map of the Realm instead of fixing the core issue plaguing his addons balance (the high laceration meter) Memento blades is also an addon that is mandatory, and I don't like how many options keep feeling like they only benefit the spam playstyle when its clearly the most supported style already.
these add-on feel mandatory because his base-kit throwing is weaker than other throwing modes. this was always true in all the old iterations of trickster and remains to be true in this version of him. He is only better other ranged killers when he has main event active. That is sort of his niche strength. it is way to balance him as a character such that he is not strictly always better in every situation to other ranged options but he has moment in time where he is the best at what he does.
He doesn't need regular mode AND Main Event to both be rapid fire,
His regular mode isn't rapid fire to begin with. Whether he rapids fire or doesn't rapid fire is entirely based off where the survivor is. It is based off what happening in the game.
Skill expression needs to make a return, otherwise this character is always going to be garbage in high level play as making it good without any limiters would result in modern day Skull Merchant levels of non-interactive looping.
He already has skill expression. He has to hit 16x more often then any of other two range killers. track aim is a skill.
All of these addons are straight up efficiency increasing and to some degree all of these addons were rolled into base-kit of the characters or likely will be eventually if they haven't been yet, why would we ever turn back the clock on mandatory addon design being reduced just to get a design that worked before?
I mean pig got her ambush buffed but her ambush still feels like it needs workshop grease to be effective. not every killer just goes to solid base-kit immediately. Trickster is no different in that regard.
comparing current Trickster to OG 3 years ago Trickster is a curveball that I don't understand what its relevance is
It is not curveball. it is explanation of his current state of the game being better than before. bug fix and maybe one change could make him solid but it could also get survivor to complain about him which many people already have natural dislike to his gameplay loop on survivor side.
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@Revvium said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/097UPCK9AFUR/image.png
I just want his nerfs addressed, Main Event is so boring and it is sledgehammered into the kit and feels like there's no risk and reward was heavily hampered to make way for it. Ramping was essential to the immersive experience, 24m made the 40m lullaby (with unique function to actually tell you how close you were to the terror radius) actually immersive against Trickster and because main event is so prevalent it doesn't feel like an ultimate ability.
His performative flare and immersive voicelines are annihilated, all so that people who didn't want to try to learn the killer could get 80% of the reward for 0% of the effort. By the way all of the Trickster's who have invested hundreds and thousands of hours have expressed frustration that their killer whom the community deemed mid B to high C tier got nerfed in the elements that actually had application at high level play, and so that Trickster could further stomp players at the lower end who he already had no issues destroying!
I'm on board with recoil going away or being an optional feature for people who enjoyed the immersive qualities that it held, but ranged killers should not also run at m1 killer movement speed, especially not at the cost of aesthetic, the long-term health of the character, and the survivor's enjoyment. I've gone on about this for 9+ months and its painful that Trickster as I knew him is just not a character anymore. Glad the people who played him casually can 4k people who aren't exhibiting proper counter-play, but this rework was a complete betrayal of the performative ranged Huntress equivalent that I fell in love with.
Losing playstyle options for an already extremely limited sniper character selection (Huntress, Unknown, Slinger) is a shame and it's no wonder why so many people play Huntress, she's always been the penultimate best ranged killer and they did well at amplifying her ranged elements instead of neutering them in place of "not using your power on most tiles"-Rev 😘
his only real nerf is 8 →6 laceration. His original 4.4 m/s version was 8 lacerations. So at least comparing his first PTB iteration to this version, he is much better. Given his better fire-rate, He probably doesn't need to go from 8→6. Probably just going from 8→7 would be sufficient. At the same time, i don't think he mandatory needs it but it would be nice QOL change. My original alternative suggestion was just adding back his Melodious murder add-on to decrease max laceration from 8→7. His base m/s is fine change for what it was trying achieve.
Just minor bug fixes and maybe single QOL change is all that is needed.
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@Revvium said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782779#Comment_3782779
They actually did buff his movement speed while throwing!
they removed his penalty build-up thing which i don't really understand why he had that. i remember when he was first released in the ptb, his throwing m/s was like 66% movement speed → 33% the more you threw. i still remember playing trickster in the ptb with this. my play-time on that ptb with trickster has never made me feel so weak as a killer. when he was released, he was my worst-win rate killer. i think i was winning 4/10 matches and this was before MMR existed.
that was really something. after that like few weeks, they buffed his throwing m/s to 96-92% from that awful 66%-33%, made his main event have 0.5 second wind-up instead of 3 seconds, increase his main event timer to 30 second from like 10 seconds and they made his wind-up shorter… i believe it 0.65 or 0.75 to 0.5 seconds. i think he also had 10 second of laceration in his original version. either way, that was an interesting killer experience.
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She is not A-tier for me.
@NerfDHalready said:
lockers removing birds needs to go. she can only be appealing for her map wide pressure but locker play completely negates that and what else does she have? boring zoning playstyle.
she has ranged capacity. It is just that her range is as about as good as unknown range. 2 hits to get a injure is bad. Her bird placement is clunky and slow. She is like Knight pincer with birds. You place bird down, you go other way, survivor goes into bird, fire bird.
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i think nature of Thwack is pallet = information. I'd rework the perk to work like weave attunement. every time your in chase, the next pallet dropped is highlighted to the killer for 30 second in yellow. Survivors near the pallet have their aura revealed within 12 meters.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Tell me you dont understand Trickster without telling me...
Tricksters biggest weakness with his power is that he is slow and easily loopable around high objects.
By making him 4.4 you would have to buff his movement speed while holding knifes a lot otherwise he would be total trash. He is allready not good and you just ask for one of the biggest nerfs on any killer you can ask, their core movement speed.
yeah they didn't buff his throwing movement speed. they just buffed his m/s. he's fine where he is at. he could be little better like 7 knives to injure as many trickster feel that 8 knives is a bit too much but at this rate, i am just wanting them to fix his animation for memento blades. nothing else. bug fixes shouldn't be taking 1 year…..
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@VantablackPharaoh91 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782504#Comment_3782504
I think, Devil, that's why Billy is getting some coming tweaks. Probably nerfs. Not major ones, but enough to make this much less possible because it and easy chainsaw spam are both currently the biggest issues with Hillbilly.
what do you expect them to do? add 16 second cooldown every time a survivor unhook themselves so he can't use chainsaw to return the hook? i guess we'll see what they nerf on billy.
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@VantablackPharaoh91 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782315#Comment_3782315
This is really my only issue with Hillbilly, Blight, Nurse, and even Huntress and Slinger - they can proxy camp in a way no other Killers really can and it's obnoxious, because now it's getting Hook timers lengthened to prevent it, which affects everyone solely because of a handful of players playing another handful of Killers in an obnoxious way just to be obnoxious.
i don't think hook timer does anything for billy because he can leave hooks, pressure a chase and once he gets unhook notification, he just goes back to the hook. it is like he is globally proxy camping the map. The 10 second timer isn't going to do anything for him. the 10 second change is more likely to affect weaker killer that camp but don't really have any other good map pressure options.
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just do the twins change on every killer. if your near the same survivor for 60 seconds, you lose collision until you hit someone.
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691141#Comment_3691141
Completely agree. Wouldn't mind a crosshair too honestly, I chose to not play with it since many good Trickter players don't use it, but I mean it would be comfy, not gonna lie. And remove his lullaby already too.
I don't even mind 8 blades to down and 8 blades for main event, though survivors find it unfun to play against, which I get. Literally all they need to do is make Memento Blades full basekit, fix the animation, remove his lullaby and, if they want to for bonus points, add a crosshair option ingame and Trickster would feel so much better to play.
at this rate, just fixing the bug sufficient. they're taking as long to fix this bug as they are to fix plague's stun bug which nobody noticed it was bugged until they fixed said bug.
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he is same as before. just that he has -2% haste since overclock is only 3% instead of 5% and less duration since overclock duration doesn't scale. slugging is less rewarding. he is your standard, tunnel killer off-hook type killer.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
I wouldnt mind basekit unbreakable if anytime survivors used it, they lost a hook stage.
and if they were to die on hook, they become moriable and next time they go down, they'll bleed out in 10 seconds unless killed/picked up.
This way survivors won't have to be slugged and the killer won't be punished for making objectively correct decisions that lead to the whole team (or most of it) lying on the floor as survivors will have a price to pay for a free reset or chance for it.
If anything, slugging is a direct consequence of an outdated and boring hook system that just slows the killer's gameplay down. Wouldnt mind devs getting rid of it took and finding something better.
that is good idea. you might as just delete hooking as concept though. the idea i had was that no mither decreased your bleed out timer every time you used it. The bleed out timer would decrease when another survivor heals a survivor of the floor. Unbreakable/Boon expo would retain same benefits as No mither but they would have higher recovery time.
You could just tie the slugging into hook states instead of bleed out timer. It would have similar effects.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/424128/anyone-else-tired-of-hillbilly
I played against UncleStanBana and let me tell you what, he was so good that it was legitimately the most unfun match I have ever played in DBD. Constantly bouncing back and forth between unhooks before we could do anything. He said himself he would hate to go against his Billy because how oppressive he can be.
But what can you do? You just have to deal with it because that’s like 1% of players
i dislike playing vs billy because of his ability return to hooks and proxy camp →tunnel survivors out of the game. i don't have a problem with his chase. billy is like pre-nerfed blight. strong chase but oppressive proxy camping →tunnel out of the game. old billy had same issue. it is why he was originally nerfed and even rate to be strongest killer in the game at one point.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781716#Comment_3781716
However, I do think your idea is smart there to have Sadako be able to teleport to inactive TVs, even if they don't apply condemned. The system is there too, just make yellow TVs not apply condemned to show they've been turned off. Maybe even increase the time it takes to teleport another second to compensate? I'm not sure.
I don‘t think there should be an increase in the time the tp takes since tapes are no longer for turning off TVs, in particular more for anti condemned. Therefore they should only do the one thing they are meant for, otherwise there should be a drawback for turning them off, which is not really possible to do in this version, because she would be busted with real drawbacks upon holding tapes.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781820#Comment_3781820
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781823#Comment_3781823
I would consider her phasing still an m1 like ChaosWam.
I don‘t want them to remove the lullaby completely only from the visual heartbeat since it‘s very silent and not very noticeable if you don‘t focus on it. It being directional makes no sense since she can’t just instantly appear out of nowhere and attack instantly like spirit and she is only invisible for a short moment like spirits passive phasing when not using the power, but there spirit does not have a lullaby too. I would say her phasing is like spirits passive phasing and wraith in the way of you have to get out of power first.
It was schedule to be buffed from 0.8 to 1 second but it is instead bugged to be 0.77 seconds.
It was 1s before the buff and they wanted it to buff it to 1,2s. In the end we got 0,23s less than before the „buff“ and 0,43s less than supposed.
Dredge does not have invisibility so him having directional lullaby in nightfall made 0 sense. that is why he got changed. he is suppose undetectable and this sound made him like PTB ghostface.
While I agree, playing against him is harder in nightfall than keeping track of Sadako while she is invisible, because she constantly flickers in and out. Then she aslo becomes visible while manifesting. I think her lullaby not being in the visual heartbeat would be a first good step.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781851#Comment_3781851
That is what always was my complain about her reworks. You can‘t use her tp anymore, because all the TVs are deactivated, which was already bad in 2.0 especially with the cooldown, but in 3.0 they added those stupid TV auras on top, that make her TVs completely useless.
I never really cared wether it was local or global condemned, but fact is that we will never get a good tp back to her with versions that got the focus only on condemned and which force survivors to grab tapes and to do the counterplay all the time.
I don‘t want them to remove the lullaby completely only from the visual heartbeat since it‘s very silent and not very noticeable if you don‘t focus on it.
The visual heartbeat is for survivor that are deaf. it is noticeable enough for me, aka experience player to know she is precisely in the area. It is balanced around experience players… but there is many survivor that inexperienced/do not use tools at hand so visual heartbeat looks like huge buff.
there should be a drawback for turning them off, which is not really possible to do in this version, because she would be busted with real drawbacks upon holding tapes.
This precise sentence explains why her 2.0 rework changed into this 3.0 rework. No she was not be busted. She'd be decent where she was prior said change.
It was 1s before the buff and they wanted it to buff it to 1,2s. In the end we got 0,23s less than before the „buff“ and 0,43s less than supposed.
My bad. this is error on my part. i know they changed by 0.2 but for some reason, i thought it was shorter.
It being directional makes no sense since she can’t just instantly appear out of nowhere and attack instantly like spirit and she is only invisible for a short moment like spirits passive phasing when not using the power, but there spirit does not have a lullaby too. I would say her phasing is like spirits passive phasing and wraith in the way of you have to get out of power first.
If this chase power was supposedly buffed, the uncloaking would function like wraith's lunge except instead of going faster, She'd be near completely invisible. It is just that her chase power is completely under-tuned and dysfunctional to the core. Just like her current condemn mechanic.
Something that hit me and i didn't notice this for longest time but the actual invisibility, flickering when your demanifest mode is flipped. The 1 second duration invisibility which is suppose to be 1.25 second is suppose to be her uncloak invisibility and the flickering is suppose to be passive phasing. Now i don't know if this was done on purpose or just an error in code implementation but i am pretty sure that is how chase power is suppose to work.
So all they need to do to make chase power good is just flip all these numbers. Currently, a Sadako player figured out that you cannot stagger your invisibility with uncloak invisibility. it actually resets the invisible flicker timer. this does have some … implication in resetting the phase walk timer but i don't think it is useful in most practical loops. they would also have to flip all her add-on functionality. Her directional lullaby for invisibility is there to not make her spirit 2.0 If her chase is ever rework/buffed to function properly.
That is what always was my complain about her reworks. You can‘t use her tp anymore, because all the TVs are deactivated, which was already bad in 2.0 especially with the cooldown, but in 3.0 they added those stupid TV auras on top, that make her TVs completely useless.
I never really cared wether it was local or global condemned, but fact is that we will never get a good tp back to her with versions that got the focus only on condemned and which force survivors to grab tapes and to do the counterplay all the time.
1.0 Sadako at base-kit was same. I have to remind you that these televisions had 100 SECOND cooldown for being used. there is reason why every Sadako ran Iri-tape for this 100 second cooldown. coming into 2.0 Sadako, they did reduce her TV cooldown to 45 seconds however her mobility was still hampered. It was more usable then old 1.0 base-kit but it still had limitations.
So in every iteration, it has never been a free unlimited teleport at base-kit. Iri tape was closest that she had for free unlimited teleporting until the add-on was nerfed in 3.0.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781850#Comment_3781850
This is all academic because SWFs don't have a guaranteed advantage.
People can simply play with their friends and yet not be very good at the game. People can play with their friends and spend their time goofing around or talking about other stuff and end up playing worse than they would solo.
You're punishing these people for simply playing with their friends, making the game experience worse for those who are simply trying to enjoy a multiplayer game. That's only going to drive people away.
The SWFs that pose a supposed balance problem are a subset of the overall groups of SWFs, not all of them.
Not to mention, you're targeting gen repair times of all things. You're specifically targeting gen efficiency, which is not something you need voice chat to optimise. Anyone with good gamesense can repair gens efficiently if they're solo, particularly now we have the survivor HUD action icons.
We've seen the killer equivalent in 2v8 now. Would you say the same there? Should killer premades have a -10% penalty to their movement speed if they queue up together? Or should survivors in 2v8 get 20% faster repairs if the killers are a premade?
We've seen the killer equivalent in 2v8 now. Would you say the same there? Should killer premades have a -10% penalty to their movement speed if they queue up together? Or should survivors in 2v8 get 20% faster repairs if the killers are a premade?
There is no real proof that 2vs8 killer is imbalanced. If anything, i think the problem exists in reverse. 2vs8 killer is too weak when NOT playing SWF killer because they're not using advantage of 2 killers. That is one of the reasons why 2vs8 had so much huntress because non-swf killers was like 1vs8 +1vs8 rather 2vs8. Lone gunner type killers in my opinion will end up being more popular because they don't require any teamplay or team synergy to be effective. this is detachment from original conversation.
You're punishing these people for simply playing with their friends, making the game experience worse for those who are simply trying to enjoy a multiplayer game. That's only going to drive people away.
No, It is balancing specific type of gameplay mode. your not being punishment because in practice, SWF might still be more advantageous to play even with said drawback. SWF won't be massive advantage with no downside.
Not to mention, you're targeting gen repair times of all things. You're specifically targeting gen efficiency, which is not something you need voice chat to optimise. Anyone with good game-sense can repair gens efficiently if they're solo, particularly now we have the survivor HUD action icons.
I disagree. there would be no statistic difference in escape rates if it did not provide an advantage or any posts regarding nerfing SWF. SWF has faster generators because it plays macro game more efficiently then solo. The combination of many stronger macro elements means that they spend less time healing, more-time pre-running, less time running into pallet dead-zones & teammates make them more efficient at doing generator objective by not running killer into generators. it is that all those aspects of the game are complicated so it is easier to simplify this and just weaken a global variable in generator speed.
@th3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781850#Comment_3781850
What an awful idea.
someone upset that SWF /= free wins.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781826#Comment_3781826
Notice the part in my post where i said this?
But really anyone know how blight is supposed to actually use his power when it is so easy to dodge?
So i would kindly ask that you refrain from being toxic and insulting me, and instead offering assistance and answering the question. I'm trying to learn here what i might be doing wrong as blight since his nerfs have made his power very weak in chase and he just feels like an m1 killer to me at this point with quick map traversal.
He an m1 killer at loops. You play as m1 killer, force down a pallet. break the pallet then use his power after you break the pallet. I am not joking but now I run Brutal strength on Blight now a days. Your strength is being able hit survivor between loops, not at loops.
He used to not need any chase perks as you simply used hug tech and scout surfing on undropped pallets for most hits but that is gone. Considerably weaker killer then he once was. it is why most player consider billy to be superior blight because Billy can curve while blight cannot curve. Billy has instant downs, blight does not and billy has no cooldown for his ability where blight does. Blight breaks pallets in 2.5 seconds, Billy shreds pallets in 1 second. Play billy, Ignore blight. Billy is schedule on road map to be received changes.
so enjoy while it lasts killer mains.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781602#Comment_3781602
So, it's a buff to tunnelling because it prevents We'll Make It?
I'm not trying to be dismissive here, I'm trying to understand your argument. That's the only perk I can think of that'd let you heal in the killer's face, and it's a pretty specific scenario to claim is a blanket buff to tunnelling in general. Even with WMI you really shouldn't be trying to heal in the killer's face like that when they're trying to tunnel, it's not that quick.
Though, when you say that the killer has longer to return to the hook… no they don't? That survivor won't be under the hook because they can't be healed. This could possibly apply to Mangled - and there'd be some back and forth to that conversation too - but it definitely doesn't apply to Broken. A survivor coming off the hook Broken is running straight away, either the killer's going to tunnel them or they're not. Broken isn't going to make it easier after they've made the decision to tunnel.
it buffs tunneling because survivor are forced to work on generator while injured so once survivor touches a generator killer is primed to tunnel them out. this was common strategy with Sloppy butcher which is why they nerfed this perk and other related mangled add-on's like Xeno, Fragile wheeze nurse, etc. Leverage is on change list so it might be received buff to return. Probably pity change because of killer's camping ability being nerfed from 60 →70 second change. nerfing camp stocks → buff tunneling stocks.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781820#Comment_3781820
What gets me is how it makes sense that her lullaby is a direct comparison to Spirit's phasing, but not compared to another killer that does have a better comparison: Wraith. They have a very similar structure to their powers.
Wraith's cloak has no lullaby despite him making noise and he takes time to uncloak, while getting a small speed burst for it. Sadako has the upper hand since she doesn't slow down as much when she manifests, but she has two downsides: Directional lullaby and the fact survivors can see her phasing in and out on approach unless there's walls. Though, I'm not sure removing lullaby entirely is a good idea, considering she DOES move quite quickly while manifesting and it doesn't take long to manifest, but it definitely shouldn't be directional all things considered.
As far as her not being an M1 completely, I consider she is on the grounds you need to do the normal M1 games to get a down regardless of phasing. I see phasing as just an addition to her mindgames, less than Dredge's remnant since you can quickly teleport to it during a loop, therefore is a M2 power that is used for more than mindgames. At least, that's how I interpret it.
wraith doesn't remove information in the chase. He has invisibility but it is not really invisibility. It is useless invisibility. The Lullaby is there to defeat the purpose of being invisible at loops for Sadako so that survivor can more easily identify her exact position during the glitching. It just so happens to also make her undetectable outside of chase for ambushing survivors worse but this isn't that bad for her considering that her entire gameplay is suppose to be using television.
But then you can look at the tape problem with turning off all televisions and that where he gets the 3.0 rework problems. to be fair, 2.0 Sadako also had this problem but at least she had counter-play in being able to break tapes and build her condemn. this one has no counter-play and is just forced to be m1 killer no redeeming qualities assuming survivor plays correctly on most outdoor maps.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781835#Comment_3781835
solo isn't getting punished for playing with swf. the debuff is just regular balance for SWF. a modification to the games balance.
If SWF would get a debuff of 20% repair speed to each member, the Solo-player would also be punished, because they play with 3 people who all repair 20% slower. So if one of the SWF-members is at a Gen, they will take 108 seconds to complete a Gen instead of 90 seconds.
When you have to play with those people who have Debuffs, how is this not punishing for yourself as well, even if you are Solo?
I dont think it is that hard to understand.
the 20% debuff is off-set by SWF being more efficient at the game. your teammate are suppose to be better/stronger because they're a swf. The goal of the changes is to reduce escape rate to 49% →40% to be in line with soloq.I highly doubt this is actual escape for reference, i think strong swf escape way more than that vs most of killer cast but anyway. we're just using a number showcase the goal.
When you have to play with those people who have Debuffs, how is this not punishing for yourself as well, even if you are Solo?
I wouldn't consider a punishment as soloq player. i'd consider a balance change for SWF where SWF has 112 charges to complete generators just like 80 →90 charge change. Me as solo player would stay at 90 charges.
Like i said, i am not really for this type of change because it creates target prioritization for killer. Like i want to now target soloq players because of repair efficiency+weaker player/weak link of the team and ignore swf even more then what it currently is. I'd rather that soloq have bond-level aura reading and if solo survivor is speed-running the game too hard, then perhaps starting buff killer in some way.
I am not opposed said changes, but i think it is different route to balancing.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781774#Comment_3781774
No, because the Solo-Player would also be punished. While they dont have a Debuff, they play with 3 people who have one, lowering their chance of Survivor.
And well, you dont need to balance out SWF. Despite what struggling Killer players are saying, they dont lose games because they play against an SWF. 99% of SWFs dont even play in a way that they benefit from being in an SWF in a significant way. And if someone plays against an SWF which is really, really strong, they would have probably lost against them as Solos anyway.
solo isn't getting punished for playing with swf. the debuff is just regular balance for SWF. a modification to the games balance.
if someone plays against an SWF which is really, really strong, they would have probably lost against them as Solos anyway.
No. Not necessary. That is why the conversion is about debuff SWF. Even developer themselves admit that 4 man SWF and 3 man escape more often then Solo. MomoSeventh Played Blight for 2000 wins, Only to lose to 4 man SWF. This loss would have not been possible apart from SWF.
I am not saying that Survivor globally or SWF should be nerfed but SWF does win more on average. Like with any change, it is a blanket change. it is more important to buff killer from lower end of spectrum to the level of dredge's PTB changes than focus on blanket changes but some blanket changes don't hurt for under performing aspects of the game like Gen-kicking or spreading hook for 3rd/4th hook after hooking first 2 survivors.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781644#Comment_3781644
I feel like most of this is nostalgia blindness.
Think about it, if her 1.0 was only fun because of the teleport, why even have condemned as a mechanic if it doesn't effect the outcome? My biggest argument for 3.0 is the fact condemned is racked up among multiple survivors even with TVs being easy to work around. 1.0, you could ignore condemned for the most part. Even with her old addons, condemned lock, etc it doesn't really matter when most of the time with 1.0 Sadako, survivors could ultimately ignore the TVs and were encouraged to due to passive condemned gain from tapes. A system to literally ignore their power.
I mean by all accounts, Dredge would be far better (especially with their upcoming buffs) if lockers were in better spots and outclass 1.0 Sadako completely, IF we're only talking about the teleport. If you strip Sadako back down to 1.0 mechanics, Dredge is still a far better pick because he has loop mindgames Sadako doesn't have with his kit.
I'm a firm believer that Condemned should have some consideration with Sadako, since her main drawback is being an M1 killer. Condemned and her TVs in general help with both slowdown and item prevention in this iteration. If anything, I'd argue to change some of her addons to give her a similar feeling to 1.0 instead of demoting what she had. Maybe even the other way around, if BHVR so wills it. I don't think 3.0 is perfect, don't get me wrong, I just think it's taking Sadako in the right direction to make condemned a threat that should be respected.
the truth is that sadako isn't m1 killer completely. She has passive phasing. It is just like… condemn, it is very underwhelming. It was schedule to be buffed from 0.8 to 1 second but it is instead bugged to be 0.77 seconds. They haven't fix the bug. her directional lullaby is direct reference to another killer who also got complained fair amount. The Spirit. They would change spirit first before ever changing Sadako. Spirit has long history for this invisibility without feedback.
Dredge does not have invisibility so him having directional lullaby in nightfall made 0 sense. that is why he got changed. he is suppose undetectable and this sound made him like PTB ghostface.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781770#Comment_3781770
i agree. the tapes after ptb was most genius version of mori mechanic that provided fair interaction between the killer getting a reward for playing well and survivor repressing her ability. now that it is nerfed, sadako is least cannon killer in the game because your holding cursed object and it is doing nothing.
I am in agreement 100%. Shes had a lot of "Tune Ups" but shes a hot mess still. They gotta go back and fix her. We've made a lot of suggestions to help. I have made countless discussions advocating her, all through ptb's, making general suggestions and feedback to just plainly speaking about her out of frustration due to whats going on with her in a live match and that doesn't even include if you are going up against higher level opponents lets not even start there.
i don't think it will happen any time soon. Sadako is like billy. Originally billy got rework to have a mechanic called overheat. this mechanic was easily one of the worst mechanics that BVHR has everi introduced for a killer. evidence point to the fact they had to nerf, nerf, nerf this mechanic over and over until billy finally received a rework which just deleted the mechanic entirely. Eventually they partially, reverted many of nerf that billy received in the form of overdrive but all of them were worse versions of what he originally had besides thompson mix which stacked with overdrive in which they nerfed almost as fast as they implement it.
Sadako will likely fall same thing that billy went through. The removal of any risk for holding tape is one of the worst design decisions that they have ever done with her kit. The removal of ring drawing add-on not having any spread mechanic is another testament to them removing Lore from her character. TV not having global range make her incredibly map dependant. I imagine that most of her kit will eventually be reverted. Likely with worse values than her previous 2.0 iteration as that version was perceived as too powerful. This rework was in same patch that Billy was changed as good rework. It is just baffling for how BVHR does not learn anything from their past.
now all i have to do is wait for skull merchant to get same treatment and maybe plague.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
I figure for the killer invocation perk they could make it to where you press the secondary ability button to grab a survivor in the dying state by the ankle and drag them to a shrine in the basement.
Survivors could stop it by using flashlights, pallets or by pressing the secondary ability button to grab onto the survivors hands to try and pull them back or slow the movement down.
That being said I came up with the first killer invo perk
Invocation: Entity’s Domain
- Hatch No Longer Spawns
- All Opened Exit Gates Are Forced Shut
- One Additional Generator MUST Be Repaired
“You think you know the game? No… you haven’t even begun to understand this place. This…. Is My Domain”
I really like this mechanic and I think this could be a very fun dynamic switch that has significant impacts of the outcome of the match. What do you guys think?
this used to exist. the perk was called Monstrous shrine. It was default perk where you could kill survivor faster for hooking them in the basement. this was mainly used for Bubba builds related Agitation+Iron grasp to face-camp basement.
Eventually this was nerfed to have 24 meter radius limit. the perk was changed into scourge hook perk. Killer already have invocation type perks that trigger once per trial. They're hex perks. game-changing perks that supposedly get destroyed by cleansing totems.
they haven't really expanded invocation mechanic for survivor because it would lead to powerful game-changing perks.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
No. Use the Search Function to see why this is a bad idea.
But just as an example - what would you do about a Solo-Player who plays with a 3 man-SWF who all have a Gen Repair-Debuff? This Solo-Player would be stuck with 3 people who repair Gens slower, despite being the person you would balance around.
that is fine because it is 3 man swf. gen repair debuff would balance out SWF. It is just that i think it is better to buff soloq to similar gameplay efficiency to swf and then make appropriate nerfs to survivor globally if neccassary.
at the same time, i don't think it is that survivor needs gen speed nerfs, more so that killer needs base-kit gen buffs.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
In terms of Condemned mechanics, I think Sadako 2.0 was nearly perfect outside of a couple of really busted addons. Condemned was meaningful, but also had meaningful counterplay. People ended up losing their minds over a 10 second teleport cooldown and now we have the generally underwhelming 3.0 version.
From her kit as it is today, I think a good starting point is to make the tapes actually do something again. Both of her previous iterations had some sort of a risk when taking a tape, but in her third iteration, it's nonexistent. It's just a free pass to turn off 2 TVs.
I'm not sure what exactly would be appropriate for the Tape's effect given the context of her current kit, but there needs to be something there.
i agree. the tapes after ptb was most genius version of mori mechanic that provided fair interaction between the killer getting a reward for playing well and survivor repressing her ability. now that it is nerfed, sadako is least cannon killer in the game because your holding cursed object and it is doing nothing.
It is like imagine pig that has head-traps that don't kill you but they add 3% hindered or something. I don't feel like i am playing vs Sadako as survivor. I feel like i am playing vs a killer with a model artwork of Sadako. escaping as survivor is like any m1 killer.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781262#Comment_3781262
A fair point, that would be a downside, though I believe friends in comms would be able to resolve that issue without too much difficulty… I don't believe DBD players at large are completely incapable of navigating basic human interactions. 😏
Plus, as already mentioned, the need to collaborate on team builds also encourages exploring the perk via how it can also be supported, not just how it can be used in isolation. It becomes a collaboration where you're both exploring the perks limitations together… y'know… as friends. ^^
i think dbd is based off extremes.. 4 stealth perks, 4 repair perks, 4 chest search perks etc. limiting it reduces the fun. at the same time, bvhr under-tunes most perks because they can be stacked. Leads to have lots of very bad perks.
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@TieBreaker said:
We don't even know what the change is going to be. They might just add a short cooldown to the perk, so it's not providing non-stop aura reading. There's no point in mourning something that isn't even dead yet.
yes we do. they already showcased in another perk. Human greed from Dracula PTB.
Permanent wall hack reduced → 3 seconds
Aura detection reduced from 12 meter →8 meter.
These nerf are so heavy that it is a dead perk. Hopefully they buff human greed by making wall-hacks at very least permanent.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781059#Comment_3781059
I don't want it to become an anti proxy camping system. I just think that if you have the chance to hook someone and instead you face camp till the hooked person dies, the AFC system should still work. I've been face camped when someone goes down trying to unhook, and because a teammate was nearby (on the floor dying), the system completely stopped working.
The AFC system isn't there for balance, it's there to stop killers from denying survivors the ability to play the match. I just wish there weren't ways to exploit that system. I don't really care too much about proxy camping.
I've been face camped when someone goes down trying to unhook, and because a teammate was nearby (on the floor dying), the system completely stopped working.
because your defending objective? in my opinion, anti-camping features is not about making the killer unable defend objective, it is about forcing the hooking objective to be more consistent. this shouldn't be rewarding but it is.
it is same with tunneling. chasing injured person to tunnel them out shouldn't always be the play in 90% of cases but it is. that why it would be good if like….. babysitter or something made the chases harder for a killer that tunnels off-hook with like haste which skews killer to chase other survivors and spread hooks. the obvious problem is that spreading hook isn't rewarding at base-kit for killer so that's kinda of the issue. too much reliance on gen defence. It is just better to tunnel 2 survivors and 1 hook last one for 3k.
the system is encouraging camping and tunnel, so that exactly what you get as gameplay.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781025#Comment_3781025
I'm sure BHVR is looking for ways to mitigate extreme slugging, but I think anything they implement will be balanced or somewhat underwhelming. We got the AFC system, but it's so careful to not infringe on regular gameplay, that it fails to do anything sometimes. A killer shouldn't be proxy camping a hook, down an injured rescuer, and then slug the rescuer to disable AFC, but you can do it due to how careful the system is.
Based on the AFC system, my guess is that whatever system we get will be on the safe side. It will either be okay or somewhat ineffective.
Speaking of Boil Over, I played a match some years ago, where my teammates were a three person SWF, all running Boil Over, Breakout and Exponential, with an offering for the Macmillan map that has the building with the big tanks on the ground floor. Sadly I ended up getting slugged along with everyone else. I'd like to think the Blight saw my loadout in the end screen and just went "Whoops". Console has no end game chat, so I have no idea if they did lmao.
taking of Boil Over, I played a match some years ago, where my teammates were a three person SWF, all running Boil Over, Breakout and Exponential, with an offering for the Macmillan map that has the building with the big tanks on the ground floor.
that is why you need healing perks so when you take protection hits when killer attempt hook someone, you take the hit, survivor wiggles off or killer drops the survivor than you heal the person fully. so botany… circle of healing, autodidact. all that stuff is good.
killer shouldn't be proxy camping a hook, down an injured rescuer, and then slug the rescuer to disable AFC, but you can do it due to how careful the system is.
I disagree. when a survivor is slugged and one is on the hook, that is one of only places where i think camping is valid and should not be penalized.
Fortunately, most form of camping are not this. the vast the majority of camping is staying around hooks and fishing hook-states. AFC is anti-face camping feature so it only going trigger if the killer is extremely close to the hook for most of hook stage. I think your asking for this feature to become an anti-proxy camp feature which can simply be done by removing gradations to jump off the hook. This would mean that a killer staying anywhere near the 16 meters around the hook would allow survivor to jump off the hook. While this wouldn't delete every single form of proxy camping due to range killers, it would solve the vast majority of proxy camp situations.
eventually they should be pushing towards an anti-proxy camp system are encouraged to play actively and second-staging is less common however they need to be upgrading some of these bad base-kit characters so that those character are not completely reliant on camping.
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@ApochWeiss said:
"As a BP bonus main I don't like sitting around on the ground because the killer can't find a hook."
So run unbroken then, or tenacity and the boon to pick yourself up. Sorry, I was speaking from fairness and game balancing stance on both sides, not if someone is impatient.
On the flip side, I feel if a killer is slugging for a 4k, or just to slug, it sh9uld be basekit the survivopr revives one health state from the dying state. I'll admit I've done that with two left and I want to secure the 4k on a toxic af team. Most times I enjoy the 1v1 end game hunt though. But this is a different suggestion for another day that must have been recomended already.
"Finally can I just say declaring stuff like "I'm a killer main but I miss old dead hard" is ridiculous?"
…when tf did bring back old dead hard get mentioned here? No, screw that. Old DH sucked and gave survivors more leeway than they dewerved. Problem is now it is almost impossible to discern who is cheating with an auto dh collision script and who isn't other than if the animation happens, and if it doesn't the game is so riddled with bugs each dlc it could just be a glitch the animation didn't happen.
If t's the statement of "I'm a killer main" then i said that to further validatemy objective stance on my argument. I'm not a cry baby killer main who got looped to hell, nor an entitled survivor. I pulled from years of playing the game on both sides and find that for a game health stance this change and others that remove strategy are actually hurting the quality of Dead by Daylight in the long run.
boil over build aren't good outside of swf utilizing break out and sabo builds with fast heal perks. hook change encourages killer to hook in places where there is dead-zone to 2nd stage or death hook survivors. Like Ormond 2nd floor hook. previously, hooking in places like that present risk to the killer because the hook breaking creates a dead-zone for survivor to exploit in terms of hooking. with hook respawn, there is no risk to that type of gameplay. it also indirectly buffs scourge hook perks.
in general, survivor are suppose exploit slugging to survive longer in the trial but such a mechanic should pose risk of bleed out. currently, my guess is that they're trying erase slugging from the game for killer so that they can soft-implement unbreakable base-kit for survivor. that's my thoughts on it. i don't approve or agree said idea but that is what game is pushing towards with said changes.
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@UndeddJester said:
I don't mind Corrupt, cause at least trying to sneak past the killer to get to a far gen is stimulating... and if you get downed, hey Corrupt is gone...
I find Grim Embrace really irritating personally...
You can't all go for the unhook... and the first 3 procs are too short to realistically go anywhere else to do something productive... so you just wait for 10 seconds twiddling your thumbs. Like Deadlock is annoying, but at least you can run to another nearby gen and start progressing that.
The final proc lasts 40 seconds, so you can go elsewhere... but it blocks everything... so it's still hard to find something productive to do...
It also basically allows the killer to camp the hook, because there is literally nowhere else better for them to be... a killer who goes out and chases is fair enough, but realistically speaking, by doing that you're allowimg survivors to have a way to be useful for their team by making the save and healing, so youre actually better camping the hook and forcing a trade.
If the save is made, I literally just sit opening chests or doing random totems during the 40s cause there is literally nothing to do otherwise, unless you wanna throw yourself at the killer, and that is pointless cause you're still not buying anything of value for your team... 😒
i dislike all gen-blocking perks as survivor for very reason you describe. promotes camping and tunneling survivors out of the game. unfortunately, this play-style is more rewarding as everything else is mediocre or nerfed.
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@VantablackPharaoh91 said:
You are correct, I did mean Undone. My bad. :)
My point still stands however.
i disagree that it only affects new players. assuming skill-check are hard enough, they will affect stronger players as well. My point still stands that skill-check are too easy and don't generate any pressure or urgency in survivor's gameplay. in terms of killer kicking generators, it does very little vs efficient team that plays for the win. traditionally, the ideas for killer have always been to buff generator kicks or put base-kit corruption intervention into killer kits but these ideas don't allow survivor to interact with the mechanic. this is just a different idea that has little more survivor gameplay put into it.
Overall the mechanic does prone into survivor missing an inevitable skill-check but it puts some weight on survivor's gameplay rather entirely focusing its gameplay onto the killer.
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@VantablackPharaoh91 said:
You didn't read what I said. It's not "a lame excuse", it's just the truth.
The issue with this is the same as for Unforeseen. It doesn't affect Survivors that are confident and know what they are doing because they know how to handle these sorts of skillcheck alterations. New Survivors do not.
Therefore the change hits newcomers harder and that by design is a bad idea. This wouldn't solve the issue you want it to solve and would only make it harder for new players.
unforeseen is a undetectable perk for kicking generators. You mean undone.
The issue with this is the same as for Unforeseen. It doesn't affect Survivors that are confident and know what they are doing because they know how to handle these sorts of skillcheck alterations. New Survivors do not.
Therefore the change hits newcomers harder and that by design is a bad idea. This wouldn't solve the issue you want it to solve and would only make it harder for new players.
New player are unlikely to face skill-check alteration as they will fail skill-check on their first try. If the difficulty is not high enough, we can increase numbers slightly. for example, increasing number of stack from 3→4 for extremely experienced skill-check players.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
would absolutely destroy newer/lower skill players and do basically nothing against more experienced players (except maybe if the killer is doctor with the skill check build)
these skill-check are hard even for experience players. I suggested cap of 3 stacks because i didn't want to increase difficulty to infinity degree where the game actively forces missed skill-check but the idea is 3 stacks of difficulty makes it so that survivor is very likely to miss a skill-check.
This isn't for new players. this is going make everyone miss skill-checks on average.
@VantablackPharaoh91 said:
So basekit Huntress' Lullaby that only hits new players harder? I don't think so.
it is not hitting just new players. this will be hitting experienced players. I don't buy into these lame new player excuses.