Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Gibberish said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/670080#Comment_670080
They are good conceptually, but the actual details are bad.
Cruel Limit's range is too small to be useful, not to mention it only blocks windows and not pallets.
Surge has the same issue, range is too small. Also it only works with basic attacks, which is a big no-no.
Mindbreaker is a super cool concept, but its not very good in practice. Maybe if it worked at all times and not just when the gens below 50%. Inflicting 3 second exhaust can also work against the Killer in the case of Sprint Burst, so that part should either inflict more exhaust or inflict no exhaust whatsoever.
I agree. I think they should allow Pop goes weasel and Overcharge to synergy with it but keep lower radius. It already works with surveillance, I think it wouldn't too strong because survivors would have decent amount of time to move 24 meters away from gen and It would be a cool "combo" to pull off.
I don't see any potential in Cruel Confinement. The only two killers that can use this effect are Billy and Leatherface, but they need to be around generator and that's pretty luck-based whether your going get value out of this. My suggestion is to make it 24 meters around the killer when a generator is completed. This would allow you to block vaults in a chase, It can only occur 5 times, but depending on scenario, 5 times is 5 chances to instant down a survivor., otherwise I don't see any killer who will use this.
Mindbreaker has most potential to be a meta perk because everyone runs exhaustion perks as survivor and this very first perk for the killer that allows you to apply exhaustion with non-add on. I think they should remove 50% generator condition, so this effect is more consistent for the killer. Stealth killers such as Ghostface or Myers can really use this perk to catch people out of position and you can potentially remove Exhaustion perks from chases or at least stall out their timer.
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
I think he's really good. Willing to bet his dash gets nerfed before live since it takes 1 second to charge and crosses the distance of a jungle gym almost instantly.
Lunge is only thing that makes him viable and fun to play. If they nerf that, He becomes instantly trash-tier and there's enough those killers already to not need another one.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/667638#Comment_667638
So if the middle of Lery’s is about 24m, put 4 of them together in a grid, cut off a bit of a corner on each of them, and that gives a rough idea how large the area of coverage will be. 24m radius is still significant. That kinda size still makes it probable a gen or 2 will almost always blow.
i am saying that small circle on lery is the entire 24 meters. you'll have trouble using the perk against one generator on most the maps, let alone 2 generators. Survivors control where they get downed, so It wouldn't be surprising if you had some games where you don't get to use it once if survivors properly counter it on big maps like the temple of Purgation. 12% regression is pretty low reward, Wasted perk slot, but hey it's PTB so it might change on live.
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If you think 24 meter is huge area, than you probably won't mind all killer's terror radius getting 24 TR. each 8 meters is roughly 1 tileset, It's about the size of the middle of hospital institute. The extra total area doesn't matter, what matters is the radius of the circle between downed survivor and generator your trying to surge. Survivors can easily run away from generator that is getting worked on and Nancy's new perk that shows aura of generators directly counter it. There buffs to the survivor perks are pretty sweet, but the killer perks got short end of the stick. I wish MindBreak didn't have 50% generator condition for exhaustion, it could been useful perk for stalling survivors exhaustion perks.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/656512#Comment_656512
It's definitely way more than a mistake. Any time you blink and miss, you made a mistake. A small mistake, but it's a mistake. You can't disregard them. If you do, that's saying, "There is nothing I could have done better here." and that's not true. When you then lose that survivor at the start of the match, that's a bigger mistake. Everything at the start of the match is magnified. You need to get that pressure up ASAP.
That's not to say anything about the killer. We all make mistakes, we all have bad matches. I have my fair share as well, there's no shame in admitting it. In the same way the survivors can make a mistake and turn a good situation into a bad one in a matter of seconds, the same can happen to the killer.
You cannot expect the survivors to not do generators just because you messed up. Having the game tell you, "No, you can't do the objective yet." would be unreasonable.
I'm not saying mistake wasn't made. I'm saying that survivors can make multiple mistakes throughout a game and still win as a whole, whereas a killer making a mistake is considered a death sentence or as they say "Tru3 is garbage killer player, that's why he got gen rushed". It's pretty clear double standard. Tru3 even says that any other killer beyond nurse would lost that game. It just goes to show that you can play most perfect wraith game in the world and at the end of the day, you lose. If you look at the comments of that video, it reaffirms why everyone says you need Hex:ruin even though it's gamble perk for game slowdown and why pop goes weasel doesn't really move needle. It's also why people say that most killers aren't strong enough because they realistically need to find, chase and hook people in less then 45 seconds repetitively or they straight out lose and Nurse/Spirit and maybe billy are only ones that stand a chance in achieving that goal.
a common argument by survivor mains is that not every game is like this or SWF is reason why this happens. Let's think about it this way, If 4 people spawn into a map, They all start a separate generator, One person get caught and starts a chase, If the killer abandons the chase, the survivor just goes back to generator and if they commit, 3 generators will be completed. If this process ever repeats twice in a single game, the match is over. So even without any communication, Solo players can achieve basic optimal generator speed principals without really needing communication. A few counter arguments are that killers can apply map pressure by injuring multiple survivors, this principal is known as "Juggling", This is only true if survivors volunteer to out position themselves to take hits and not every killer has the mobility to juggle survivors efficiently. Killers like Pig can use reverse beartraps to artificially create juggling by survivors going to jigsaw boxs or Legion's feral frenzy can injure people quickly, but default killers have a different array of powers and not all of them can apply map pressure efficiently to slowdown gens. A another counter argument is that killers can just do "3 generator" strategies to stall out game. This isn't really possible because 4 survivors are able to spread killer thin. Unless you are instant down killer like Infinity evil 3 Myers, you can voluntary use a any tileset to waste a killers time and as soon as you get hit, survivor's gain burst of speed and they can use this burst of speed to enter safe parts of the map where killers can't afford to chase you or risk generators getting done. Other survivors can heal you in safe area's and you can repeat process until last generator is complete. The only reason why i think Genrush doesn't happen in every game for survivor is because they either suck at hitting Ruin skill-checks thus waste time game looking for Ruin, they're playing immersed/trolling or they're bad at the chase all of which are learn to play issues.
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@Peanits said:
That does tend to happen when you don't down someone for the first 1:40 of a game. There's nothing to fix there. The survivors have nothing to do but generators. They're healthy, nobody needs a rescue. The fix to that would literally be preventing survivors from doing their objective if the killer is having a bad game, and I would very strongly disagree with that.
He made single mistake that costed him 4 generators and 25% on 2 other generator. so one mistake means you should lose entire game. That's like saying a single mistake for survivor should be 1 hook. Don't really agree with it but your entitled to your opinion I suppose.
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I'm not really surprised. game speed has been a problem for long time, so what he's showing is just evidence of what is already proven and known. in that game, the survivors split up and did generators separately, so he couldn't have applied map pressure. Lucky he was playing omega blink mori nurse or he would lost.
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@savevatznick said:
SWF is a problem the developers seriously don't have a solution to. It's a gaping hole in their balance design because they have made this game to be approached by four solo survivors.
Many perks are made obsolete simply by survivors being coordinated, - even many killer powers are worthless against SWF - but here's the issue : not all SWFs are coordinated. This is where your problem lies. The Developers of this game will not balance around the highest levels of play, because they believe that since "not every time, will you face an optimal team", justifies you being destroyed by an optimal team every time they act optimally.
There is no way to balance around SWF without universally buffing survivors with omnipresent information so solos can act with equal efficiency to SWFs, or by disabling SWFs completely. Nothing will stop people from playing with their friends, and it'd be stupid to do so, business wise.
So we're at an impasse. SWF is crazy OP when done right, but equalizing the field would ruin Killer gameplay. Buffing killers would make non-SWF play much harder. What to do?
Let's forget about it - hey, look, we released a new stranger things chapter! you all love pop culture! Eat the corporate slop, you drones! Stop asking us to balance the core problems of our game! Look, it's stranger things, shut up already!
I wouldn't agree that there is no solution to the problem. Since SWF gain omnipotent information, this omnipotent information translates into better in-game decision making which results in more efficient team. A more efficient team is faster at completing objectives so they are better at healing, better at saving people off hooks and significantly faster at doing generators and they often use perks that strategically synergy.
1) one solution could be to give SWF action speed debuffs members which counter-balance their omnipresent information that results in efficient team. The problem with this solution is that it "creates" a new set of rules for the game. In most video games, creating double standard sets of rules isn't a good idea because it distorts the game for the players. It's like having two sets of "balance" for the game that is artificial and I find that somewhat strange but in some sense necessary
2) Second possible solution is making killers a stronger power role. The problem with this is that it affects solo survivor experience because you will inevitably make killers have an unfair mechanic that has minimal level of counter-play(like blinking Nurse) just so you can counter-balance the SWF powercreep for the survivor. It isn't as bad because it justifies killers being a power-role and it makes the game more challenging for solo survivor but the question becomes whether the game being harder for survivor is a bad thing.
3) The third possible way is to either weaken survivor universally or make solo-survivor stronger such that it has same tools as SWF. They have thought of the idea of giving Kindred in base-kit of survivors and I'd say Bond would be another logical perk to give if you wanted to make solo as strong as SWF but lately they've back off that idea. They have tried weakened survivors over time like introducing slow/medium vault speed, entity blockers, put more unsafe/useless pallets, slower healing speed in efforts to give killers a greater chance but I would say that they haven't really moved needle other than making solo-survivor more difficult to play and keeping SWF just about the same.
Their efforts to use #2 and #3 have had some mild success, but I feel like it has some negative effects, for example, I think it's harder for new players to get into the game if the game is very punishing and in general, it feels like it never really attacks the problem directly enough. It's just feel really difficult to find blacket solution that everyone can agree upon I suppose.
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/652662#Comment_652662
It does take 20 seconds to heal you... But during that time you could be doing ANYTHING ELSE. Doing bones, doing gens, unhooking, healing other Survivors, it saves 16 seconds of your time and 16 seconds of another Survivor's time.
what? that's not what second wind does. It wastes 16 seconds of your time +16 seconds of your time for a chance to heal yourself when getting unhooked away from the killer. It's like Jane's buffed solidarity perk at 100% healing conversation rate with like way more conditions.
Here's perk description in case you haven't read it:
You have learnt to avoid awkward situations with parents. Part of you still thinks your best option is to run away and hope things will take care of themselves.
Heal a Survivor to activate Second Wind.
Once Second Wind is activated, when you get unhooked or unhook yourself, you are affected by the Broken Status Effect.
While outside of the Killer's Terror Radius, Second Wind passively heals you up to 100 % over a duration of 24/22/20 seconds.
Second Wind deactivates once you are completely healed or are put into the Dying State before the healing is completed.
You will lose the Broken Status Effect once Second Wind deactivates.
"Yeah, that's a no." — Steve Harrington
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When I play survivor, I would much rather face Thanataphobia, Pop goes Weasel and Corruption Invention then Ruin. Those perks take way more skill to use and properly slowdown the game but they don't slow the game enough against better players, though new survivor perks are going to make Thantaphobia really bad. I can hit great skill checks easily, but as solo survivor, I can't really count my team to do that which sucks even in the red ranks/purple ranks. people still fail pretty hard against Ruin. That's a large reason why playing killer feels a lot flipping a coin because Ruin is largely coin-flip for game duration.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/644894#Comment_644894
I'm all in favor of stronger killers, but what you have described here is not a normal, typical match. You're describing edge-case matches that happen mostly at high rank.
I think that guy takes viable to extreme level.I think viable should mean that you can win any skill-level of team skillfully disregarding imbalanced items/add-on, so that means if your red rank, you have chance to win against other really good survivors assuming equal skill level.
From looking at glimpse of gameplay footage from stream, I think portals seem like needless risk for survivors to destroy and most people won't bother with it because they'll have animations for when the killer is using them to run away to a loop. As for pounce attack, It seems like you slowdown like bubba chainsaw to have further lunge attack, but when i saw footage, every single time the pounce was used, a lunge attack would done just the same if not faster with better movement control, so I'm not really sure what the point of that pounce attack will be. The person who was playing killer didn't seem to know his lunge ranges and survivors weren't doing optimal routing so it's hard judge, but if you can ignore a killers power with minimal punishment, that's usually not good sigh for a killer.
As for the perks, they're all pretty meh for different reasons. Unless surge synergies with overcharge, pop goes weasel, surveillance or distressing, Surge will be a area of effect pop goes weasel with a much weaker effect, Regression for generators is really slow and you need 2 or more generators to be regressed for this perk to be worth it. on difficult maps like Red forest or farm maps, this perk is very unlikely to help you in slowing the game and it's a perk that can only really help you on easy maps like The game or Lery which are heavy killer bias maps where you'd probably win without it. Cruel Confinement is too situational perk because if survivors complete generators across the map, you won't get any value from blocked windows if your on other side of the map chasing someone and if you wanted the ability to block vaults, you'd just use Bamboozle. The only map where this perk might be useful is haddonfield, but no one uses situational perks in hopes that they get the correct map to use this perk. Mindbreak would be an amazing perk for stealth killers if the perk didn't have condition 50% progression. It's also unclear if this perk causes exhaustion fully or just for 3 seconds, but if it's only for 3 seconds, it's waste perk slot and it won't work half the time so i doubt anyone will really run this because it's too niche/inconsistent. In general survivor perks are way better than anything that the killer is getting.
The ptb isn't out yet, so this is all speculation but I hope i'm wrong about killer/perks bad at the end of the day.
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Most likely, there will be a add-on that either increase movement speed when you charge lunge attack to normal or a add-on that increases speed you charge lunge attacks, They force you to use add-on so you can play killer normally, else you have no power. This add-on is almost always Pink or Purple add-on and there's only one of a kind. If you need an add-on to play a killer, most people will say that killer is weak, but mathew cote said this killer is really strong, so we have PTB to be proven wrong.
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strong perks add build variety so the game isn't stale. strong killers add variety for what you face as survivor unless your fine facing same killer all the time. so i'd say both. but if i had choose one, I'd say killer.
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@Wubsyy__ said:
I wish people would stop saying the solution to gen rushing is making gen times longer. As both a killer and a survivor player, I can say I'm not fond of holding M1 for a solid minute and a half. The solution needs to be some sort of secondary objective, like the Halloween event with the plants, or the lanterns. Though in order to be an actual secondary objective, there would need to be some tweaking done. Still, I think secondary objectives would not only make games take longer, but not make it more boring while doing so.
Halloween event and Moonrise event is literally huge bloodpoint farming event. worst yet, when people are done with event, they stop doing the event and then the problem continue to persist. Besides, the definition of secondary objective is an objective that you don't need to complete to win the game, but help you win the game if completed. Totems are already secondary objectives and many killers run Hex:Ruin or NOED and when it comes to Hex:Ruin, It's become almost mandatory perk and When it came to NOED, everyone hates facing it. The only thing that developers have done to try slow the game is create a bunch of plaster fix perks to try slow the game, however none of them have accel at stalling the game, because if they did, the survivors would just complain that perk is busted/unfun to play against. All that says in nutshell is that survivors aren't really interested in improving the game balance even though game speed is kind of a problem that will continue to grow worse and worse as survivors continue to improve at the game.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/645744#Comment_645744
I'd see Second Wind procing quite a bit.
Healing people isn't uncommon unless you are facing a Legion or Plague. So the conditions aren't that difficult to fulfill. The other conditions are just:
A - The use case itself, I wouldn't call it a condition so much as a trigger.
B - The terror radius thing
It's not THAT hard to stay out of the Killers terror radius unless you are in a chase. Plus it synergizes with both BT and the new Babysitter perk (but not DS). So just run the perk, heal someone whenever you can and then when you are unhooked you can just go straight towards a gen without worrying about healing.
Hardcounters Sloppy Butcher.
You know what also counters sloppy butcher? Inner strength. In fact I haven't spoken a enough about why I think this perk has most potential to be game-breaking. in fact, it doesn't just counter sloppy butcher, it counters any and all perks or add-on's the slow healing, which includes huntress add-on, clown add-on, billy's add-on's, Dying light, Thantophobia,Coulrophobia , Sloppy and most of those things were pretty bad already, but they're useless now. Lockers block aura's, so this means that Nurse calling is also ineffective against this type of healing. Due to other perks, You can't physically prevent this perk from not working. Suppose you get hooked, Someone Unhooks you, you jump in a locker, If a killer doesn't grab you, you full heal, If he grabs, you decisive strike him and If you wait too long, you can head-on him and you get free escape with full heal. That's why Inner strength has big potential to be meta defining perk. This can occur up to 5 times per game. Second wind is really nothing compared to the potential that this perk has to offer.
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I think Inner strength is only good perk that survivors got from update. you cleanse a totem at the start of the match when killer hasn't found survivor and in 8 seconds, you get full heal with no teamwork involved up to 5 times using a locker.
The rest of the perks either have too many drawbacks or aren't numerically strong enough. For example, Second wind requires you to heal someone, get hooked and then for a killer to not go after you. I understand that they don't want you to get a full heal during a chase, but requiring to heal another survivor just so you can heal yourself after a hook safe is really bad drawback. that will make that perk difficult to use. If it was just that you get a heal after getting saved from a hook when outside of TR, it would be solid perk. Camaraderie is a perk that is suppose punish facecamping, but ironically, If i see the survivor's hook state get paused as a killer, I'm just going to look for the person around the hook and your essentially giving me free information to camp a hook, On top of that, The duration for pausing struggling phase is too short to punish facecamping, If this perk lasted 60 seconds, then I'd really consider leaving hook or fear losing the game, but 15 seconds is not moving needle. Babysitter is perk that is suppose help the person who get rescued, but the irony is that the player who got rescued does not get information for where the killer is coming from and the person who rescues the person is giving the killer free information to chase them. So the player who got rescues might just run into the killer by mistake and the person who did unhook is getting a drawback. I think a fair buff for this perk would be that both players see the killer and the killer can't see the survivors because killers shouldn't be getting advantages for survivors running perks against them, they're meant to help survivor, not the killer. Fixated has unusual condition of needing to not be injured to get walking bonus speed, that should be removed. That condition alone completely removes it's viability. Better Together is for made for Prove thyself so it's for co-op generators, and it's more like reverse version of what bond does for you, but instead it's for the teammates. Feels like redundant perk that won't get used due to more useful perks.
TL:DR Survivor perks could be strong but they need buffs to be more competitive with other perks in the long run.
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I think a smarter idea would be to keep tier's same, but to add extra chance that you can gain 2 tiers from single BloodWeb on a perk. so for example, if your lucky, you can start with level 2 Hex:Ruin instead level 1 hex:ruin so average, less blood-webs are needed to max a character with all perks.
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@Eskay said:
Really hope they'll nerf the surge one it's way too op
Personally hope they buff it. Apart from the game and Lery, few generators will be in 32 meter terror radius and 12% is very small compare to Pop Goes Weasel. I think it should be based off terror radius of the killers, so perks like Distressing and Monitor work with it and I doubt that Pop goes weasel will work with it since your not kicking the generator. the rest of the perks are not useful.
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Probably bottom tier. If you looked at footage of the killer, constructively, they said that the portals are worse then hag for map presence and If you pay attention to secondary ability pounce looked like slows your movement speed and you can only lunge attack in straight line, so you can think of it like worse version of pig dash attack or less rewarding billy chainsaw. Any killer that doesn't have solid chase potential usually ends up on weaker side.
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I think adrenaline is slightly overrated. I find too many people in soloqueue spend too much time looking on totems for Hex:Ruin instead of doing generators so often adrenaline may not proc. for that reason I think more people should run small game so they can win faster with fewer people dead. Dead hard+Iron Will+DS is the meta though.
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@Peanits said:
This wouldn't actually solve as much as you might think. Generator times were increased from the original 60 seconds to 80 seconds way back, but as you can see, that alone doesn't change much.
Adding extra time to a generator doesn't make the game significantly longer. To give an example, let's say the generator times goes from 80 seconds to 100 seconds. That's a 25% increase- 20 seconds longer per generator. However, over the course of the entire game and between all five generators, that's only a total of 100 seconds. Worse yet, this assumes that all generators are being worked on sequentially, but that's not the case.
Realistically, three survivors are going to be working on separate generators while one gets chased. 100 seconds later, three generators are going to go off. They can then split off to three others, start working on those, and then 100 seconds later, the remaining two are bound to go off. (These are obviously worst case scenarios, if they're doing it that fast, you are doing a terrible job applying pressure.) In total, you would only gain about 40 seconds from that 25% increase.
Unless you go to the extremes- which is going to feel awful to play against- it's not going to make a difference. We're talking old Freddy half speed levels of slow. Realistically speaking, that would make the vast majority of games incredibly killer sided just to balance around the few games that go quickly (which often times, the killer fails to apply pressure in). Increasing generator times seems like an obvious move on the surface, but in practice, it wouldn't accomplish much.
I don't really agree with that assessment. 140 seconds extra time is a big deal. even if all 3 survivors working on generators, 40 seconds is more time to search for survivors, an extra chase and extra hook chance. I would say that a killer chances to win generally speaking increase the longer the game is. You can even look at a guy named Tru3Ta1ent who consistently hits red ranks killer in under a week every rank reset because he can dumpster purple rank survivors who unoptimal at doing generators and can win chases rapidly. The current analytics of the game just don't make much sense. If you have 30 seconds to find a survivor, 30 second chases and 15 carrying to a hook, that's like 85 seconds per hook. In that time, survivors are capable of doing 3 generators. so in 2 chases, it's possible to complete entire game and killers need at least 3-9 hooks to have a chance at winning the game. It's just not very realistically for killers to achieve their win condition even if your a best killer in the world with 4000 hours of experience. Further evidence can be seen by the killer Nurse who has fastest tracking via perks, fastest chase times, lethality and map presence and even with all those insane traits, It's still possible to lose because of game speed. Just like you said, if your playing well as survivor, you'll win anyway but at least killer will have greater chance of winning than they do currently.
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only people who are new to the game would run technician. Technician is wasted perk slot. People at newbie are too bad at hitting ruin skill checks. Changes that help rank 20 survivor experience should be encouraged. It's also good marketing because if you add a lot of newbie friendly perks, because if you can get people to try your game out and not rq, then those people are potentially people that might invest time in the game, and they might buy other dlcs and cosmetics.
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@JESUS_CHRIST said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/642256#Comment_642256
I never complained about it but it did bring back old memories of being bullied as killer at end game before DS got nerfed. MoM on it's own wasn't a big deal but when everyone has it that's four more hits on top of the Adrenalines, DSs, and DHs and it takes an insane amount of extra hits to down everybody enough times to win. With body blocks end game was pretty much a wrap if multiple people were running MoM.
They should start with getting rid of the aura reveal for it though to see if more people would start using it again. I'm all for more good survivor perks but they shouldn't revolve around an easy second chance. A comparative killer perk to old MoM would be one that let's you instadown after you miss a set number of attacks. I guess like NOED but without counter play.
Removing aura reading isn't going change MoM state. The way you use MoM right now is that you bring a medkit with instant heal, you take a protection when a survivor is getting carried to a hook, then you heal yourself. The next time a survivor is brought o a hook, you can now tank 3 hits, so MoM is like sabotage hook perk now. The problem with old MoM is that it had no counter-play because every killer has to hit basic attacks to down survivors, so it was inevitable instant heal for the survivor. In my opinion if they wanted to make it a perk you earn, I'd say change the condition to 2 safehook.
Strong perks are fine, what matters for perks is that they got counter-play. If they lack counter-play, they're often really problematic.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Please stop with that stupid Term "Gen Rush". The Survivors are doing their Objective, it is not their fault that most of the Killer Players cannot compensate for it.
Just yesterday I watched a German Streamer (Prayer Beads Spirit) I faced. He tunneled a lot (great Fog Whisperer btw., shows the quality that is needed to represent BHVR and this game../s) and was complaining about every DS and BT he ran into. Like, I unhooked 3 people, he saw me all the time and 3 times he ran into BT, instead of just going for me. And complains about Gen Rush, because he loses so much time to chase the people who got BT and DS. A day before I had him with Infinite EW3 Myers. I unhooked someone, and instead of going after me (with EW3, so both people are Oneshot), he went after the other person and got hit by DS. And again, complains about how less time Killers have.
And you want to support those kind of people? Players like that who do everything wrong and complain afterwards about getting genrushed?
With a decent amount of Map Pressure, Gen Rush is harder to do. But I agree that some form of second Objective is something to look for, but not something like "Lets Survivors take double the time without any more balancing".
Anyway, I dont want to get less points for doing Gens. What else should I do? When there is no Totem nearby or I am not getting chased or going for an Unhook? Watching the scenery? Or play Hide and Seek with the other Survivors, while one person is getting chased?
Secondary objectives don't work. a good example of that is NOED and Totems, technically, Noed can win games and you can counter the perk by doing the totems, but it's not primary objective to winning the game, it's optional time-waster/bp. It's better to just increase generator time by say 20 seconds and give killers more time. see if they can do anything with extra minute. The other option is making more perks that slow the game down or buff existing perks that slow the game down, but realize that those perks will become mandatory in every killer build, see hex:ruin for example and that's not a very healthy for the game. survivors deserve strong perks, because it makes the game more interesting, but the game still has to be fair for both sides at the end of the day. If your downing people in 20 second chases, and yet generators are still flying and you lose, there's only so much map pressure a killer can do against optimal survivors and that player is clearly not getting rewarded for playing the best of his capabilities in given situation with said killer.
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I think the issue with wraith that his power is suppose to be invisible killer with strong stealth tools. The problem with wraith power is that his power has too much counter-play making it bad at the job it was intended to fulfill.
-the bell is as loud as old ghostface stealth form which defeats purpose of stealth
-Flashlight item and object of obsession make his power useless(so perks and items counter him)
-You can see him coming as he walks (Transparent outline)
-The movement speed is reduced when decloaking and decloaking takes too long time, also speed boost provided is too short to mind game loops unlike pig dash attack.
So he's not good stealth, can't use his power in a chase and he has no game slowdown or base tracking. So if you wanted buff wraith to be solid killer, I think some of these drawbacks should be removed. He's stealth killer, buff him in ways that make him good at stealth so at least he has a niche. My suggestion would be to remove transparent outline of his power so he has pure stealth even when moving and to remove the ability for flashlights and remove the ability for aura detection perks like Alert and Object of obsession to detect him in stealth form. The only reason why wraith isn't worst killer in DBD is because Spirit fury+Enduring with shadow dance add-on is amazing chase potentia/pallet break and Nurse calling/All-seeing add-on give him some of the strongest tracking/information tools in the entire game. Without the add-ons, wraith really suffers with his base power.
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I would like a perk that allows you to "see" ripples of sound on the screen or maybe that could be a killers power. By seeing sound, I mean soundwaves on the screen.
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well developers didn't think through their nerfs when they nerfed Legion. For example, When they nerfed his movement speed and increased duration, they forgot factor in that survivors can "split up" as legion chases each individual survivor to injure them, so though your moving the same amount of distance, survivors are further away so your less effective at injuring multiple survivors which is what his power is designed to do. I don't think anyone knows what terror radius and vault speed nerf was about. The higher terror radius makes it harder for him to capitalize on injured survivors if he ever successfully uses his power and vault speed change just made him clunky in his power.
It's good that nerfed moonwalking,frank mixtape and added miss attack function to allow some juking/counter-play potencial to his power, but other parameters did not need changes. If there was one change that I wish that was reverted from old Legion, It would be fatigue time change, It feels bad to get stunned for 4 seconds, I wish it was back to old values.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624641#Comment_624641
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624668#Comment_624668
1) He didn't make just 1 mistake. He made a series of mistakes.
2) Kickin the wrong gen is a CRITICAL mistake. As in a mistake that carries more weight then regular mistakes. Missing an attack or making the wrong read will cost you some time in a chase. Making a critical mistake like what he did can cost you the game. Survivors can do this too... if one makes a critical mistake of getting caught in the basement when another survivor is already down there that's a single critical mistake. That can cost all survivors the game, because even if the other 2 don't go for the save there is now only 2 of them and a very good chance at least 1 more will die, especially if it happens early in the game. Killer basically got a guaranteed 3k at that point from 1 person's screw up.
3) Mistakes are more costly near the end of the game. When he let them finish that gen they needed 1 more. That's a huge misplay he should have known to go to that gen because it was almost done. If he kicked it with Pop then he could have held down the 3 gen and it would have gone a lot better for him.
That dude has played 100-1000 games of trapper. your post sounds like your trying to say he sucked at the game, therefore should have lost. Those survivors made twice as many as he did like walking into obvious traps and getting hook in the basement, yet despite all of that, 3 people escaped cleanly without any counter-play for the killer at the end. He's very lucky that he had such powerful position. A lot of killer games, There won't be any weak links and you won't get basement play and people will disable/walk past your traps. You can argue that he would had better chance with better add-ons like Irisdescent stone or Bloody coil, but survivors can run extremely strong perks+items and win whenever they feel like it. It's almost like survivors are the power role. The irony.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/625480#Comment_625480
Botany doesn't increase repair speed while fully healed.
Thanataphobia's counterplay is healing. If it slows that down too much then it becomes OP due to always slowing the game too much in combination with certain other effects such as Legion.
Healing with thanataphobia would take over 20 seconds with another survivor or a medkit. Combine that with sloppy and it takes even longer.
I know that doesn't really sound like too much, but compare that too the no heal meta and it's clear that having both long heals and big punishments for not healing at the same time with just 1 perk is too much.
2 perks for it is a different story of course.
Just playing devil advocate. That combination requires 2 perk slots kind of like Enduring+Spirit fury or like survivors running DS+Adrenaline in late game. both of those perks are in the game and could be argue to be a bit "too much". Healing perks can mitigate effects of the combination. Survivors can split up and work on different generators. It's kind of like stable principal for fighting legion to split up whenever Legion activates feral frenzy. If you split up and work on different generators, the killer will have hard time injuring multiple survivors. Only 2 people should ever be injured which is the person on the hook and the person getting chased. Many players run Hex:Ruin and Pop goes weasel on all killers in attempts to slowdown the game. If this combination was more viable, this would give more viable options to slow game speed down a little bit when survivors refuse to heal or play around the perks.
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@deadbyhitbox said:
His biggest mistake was losing the 3 gen. He should have pressured them off it and used PGTW.
Nope, this is often very common survivor excuse. There's only 1 killer and 4 survivors, Killers can only be in one place at once and they can only chase one survivor at a time. There's nothing he could of done better. It's why most people agree that 80% killers have no chance to win. This isn't even looping problem. There was hardly any looping in that game(We didn't even see killer shack side of the map), It's just that the game speed is too fast for killer and if you face semi-decent survivors whether in group or just randoms, you lose. it's just how it is. I always found it weird how killers need to use all these extremely optimized perks and add-on and yet when you play survivor, you can play with whatever you want and still win, even 1vs1 killer in some odd cases. When survivors using optimal stuff, they're more nuts then the power-role.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/620086#Comment_620086
This is true. If something is a little weak, that's okay. We can always buff it up until it's in a good spot (Pop Goes The Weasel is a good example of that). If something is overpowered, then everyone gets frustrated while playing against it until it is nerfed, and then more people are frustrated that we nerfed it.
To give an example, compare the outrage from Pop Goes The Weasel to Mettle of Man.
There's also something said about making a killer that breaks the game. To use the example of a killer that can destroy walls (which was actually a prototype way back), that can be a very dangerous thing to do. It can be ridiculously powerful, but then you also run into the issue of "How do you balance it?" If the power breaks the game, you often can't balance it in a way that's fun without making it weak or frustrating to use.
I don't think your logic when created/balancing some of the perks. MoM was going to be overpowered. Everyone read the perk and automatically knew it was going to be a problem.. They knew that because almost all of the meta survivor perks involve recovery or instant healing a health state and instant heals are insanely powerful for survivor. Unbreakable,Adrenaline,Decisive strike, Borrow time, heck even Deliverance. They all allow you to directly or indirectly gain an instant heal or health state by some condition. Old MoM was such reliable condition that it essentially gave survivors an instant heal med kit every trial. You can measure the strength of a perk often by looking at existing concepts in the game. Now a days, Decisive strike is more powerful then it was before the change because survivors have found a counter to slugging by running into lockers, and since it is a timer, killer who chasing other people may get hit by decisive randomly.
On flip side, perks that are likely to never be used because their concept is weak never get used. For example, how many killers run perks that modify their terror radius? The most common perk is monitor&Abuse. No one runs tinkerer. The new perks that modify terror reduce are even less consistent then old ones. For example, Dark devotion is obsession perk which makes that perk an rng perk that forces you to find an obsession for a chance to surprise someone else. Fugitive chase is another obsession perk that has so many conditions.you have to find obsession, first, than hook it , the terror radius is reduced inside of chase, instead of globally and if obsessions dies, you lose entire perk. I wonder what would be wrong if dark devotion didn't need obsession with fixed cool down and if fugitive didn't make you lose all stacks when survivor died and it just gave global terror radius reduction.
Moral of the story: Perks-types that are strong end up being overly strong and perks that are bad end up being horrifically bad. Most of the perks that are bad stay bad for entire lifespan of the game.
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Some perks look really cool, but they would be very hard to code. The perk that caught my attention the most was Lightborn. The ability to see the intensity of generator aura by being next to a fire is really cool idea. I think a lot of the reason why many perks show up as weak or ineffective in the game is because developers are scared to test limits of the game in fear of power-creep. a small amount though can be healthy for the game, though some of the perks are probably to wild to even bother implementing like spawn gens in basements..
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@ZacKdbd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/615963#Comment_615963
You expect to have every pallet be a non safe pallet? Just to walk around it in a second? Lol. The map is fine.
no? I expect every pallet to have some risk for survivor, not to be a giant safe zone. That's the whole reason they are reworking maps in first place. The comment makes think that you don't understand difference between unsafe pallet and a fair loop. The loops that the killer doesn't need to break pallet are poor design for survivor because the survivor is guaranteed to lose health state which defeats entire purpose of pallets. Loops that have a mind game allow both to have equal opportunity to make a good play. There's zero reason to remove BloodLust as long god windows and zero mind game loops exist in the map.
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Hate to break it to you, but Badlam school loops haven't really changed much. The badlam school still has 4 pallets that have no mind game and the killer is forced to break them(Infinity w/e balance landing). There is still basement loop with 2 staircases and a pallet that has no mind game with luck based windows that has no mind game if you know where stand as survivor. There's upstairs house with circular pallet on 2nd floor where you can see the killer, so again no mind-game, then there's old shack pallet god-loop that everyone knows.
Personally, Badlam school map reworks show huge evidence that developers don't really know what loops are badly designed. good survivors will always spot best tiles and exploit the hell out of them with no error. Blood lust never fixed problematic loops and it probably never will, so there's not much reason to remove or keep it. The only thing bloodlust achieves is forcing pallet drops on each tile so that a killer has to break it to reset their bloodlust to 0 so the survivor can't endlessly exploit tiles when traversing between each tiles without taking a hit.
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It needs higher percentage to be worth. The PTR had it at 6%. Maybe 5% would be a better middle ground.
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Well I use it on Freddy, Wraith and Billy, Their mobility allows PGTW to be pretty solid perk. On the rest? Somewhat of hit or miss perk Not a big fan of the perk
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/610653#Comment_610653
But if the survivors are hitting greats then I don’t see how it helps much.
Again, you can count with your figures when all 5 generators have been completed with Hex:Ruin up. Even if this is the case, you have no one else to blame then yourself for having extremely poor time management in the said killer match. Even the better survivors will fail skill checks and the perk will give you some extra time in a match. The reality is that the game doesn't begin for "killer" until red ranks, you simply won't strong enough teams to even remotely challenge the perk while its active. It makes rank reset a bit funny because you'll near enough 4k/stomp every match, then hit red ranks and then finally remember... "oh this how the game feels like again".
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Against 4 Master level survivors in red ranks. Not using Ruin is game over. The only killers who have a chance without Ruin are Nurse,Billy and Spirit, But they can still lose, They need slug and play very tactically to win without it. You can compare how fast match go with ruin up and when Ruin is deactivated. It's night and day. Sadly, there are no perk alternatives to it, Dying light requires tunneling and the match might be over. Thantophobia doesn't slow the game down enough to have any meaning+ Split up counters it. Better teams won't give you time to use PGTW enough times. Most of the harder killer games result in Silver/Bronze or no emblem for gatekeeper both with or without Ruin against the best teams.
It begs the question for whether Hex Totems perks should be harder to disable given that over 90% of the killer rely on it to have fair match. A possible change would be to make every totem look like a dull totem, so Hex perks are more reliable. Maybe a survivor perk could be the ability to identify dull totem to hex totems. It would help slow the game down and you wouldn't even need to redesign maps.
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Fire up is the perk that extents pallet breaking speed and vaulting, though no one uses it. The second idea is cool with bloodlust.
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Double backing and Dead hard are Nurses only counters. Double backing is when you move in the direction nurse faces to blink so that nurse over blinks, and her second blink doesn't have enough range to successfully reach the survivor. Dead hard counters all killers swings, so that's why its best exhaustion perk. Another common counter-play is breaking line of sight, then choosing one direction so the nurse has to guess which side to blink.
The major problem is that experience nurses can counter-play all these counters consistently. The best nurses are reactionary, For example Nurses can blink across walls then observe the direction you'll take and adjust their second blink to hit a survivor using line of sight trick. Nurses can also adjust their blink by changing angle of their camera to make long or short blinks, so double backing is more of gamble then an actual counter. Dead hard does counter nurse, but it's only usable once in a chase and not really saying much about nurses balance. The add-on on nurse further remove counter-play, Like having 3rd blink allows you to bait dead hard's and further range will allow you to blink faster, further range and rectify your mistakes on nurse. Nurse was designed when the game had 100% fast vaults, no bloodlust and perfect infinities everywhere. The only reason why Nurse exists right now is to defeat SWF groups that are massively overpowered. It makes more sense to weaken SWF and Nurse than it does to make Solo survivor as good SWF and to put all killers to Nurse's level. You can ask any rank 1 survivor/rank 1 killer and they'll all give you same answer more or less regarding Nurse and SWF unless they're bias towards one side.
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@Mellow7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/605691#Comment_605691
Doc moves at 110% when in therapy mode, so you want to nerf that to 105%? Idk about that, I'd suggest reducing the time it takes to switch modes by a lot and make him move at 115% while in therapy mode.
He is talking about Doctor's movement WHEN charging Carter's Spark. In case you didn't know, Doctor moves at 77%(3.08 m/s), So he loses 33%(38%) movement speed when using his ability at loops. For high-level doctor players, Doctor treatment movement speed and switch mode speed is kind of irrelevant because you can switch modes while walking and you only change modes to do a single shock, then you go back to punishment mode. He's suggesting to buff 77% movement to 105% movement. If that change was implemented, it would improve him a lot and it would make very fluid to play instead of clunky killer he is now. Hopefully the add-on rework improves doctor a bit as he is very underwhelming to face.
Illusions aren't useless, they're great tracking tools, and they improve killer's ability to juggle multiple survivors. His afflictions need no change. Low-rank survivors hate doctor because they suck at looping and skill-checks, though I have no clue why would you balance the game for players who aren't good at the game. They'd lose to killers who have no power anyway and killers they face don't know how to use killers powers effectively either.
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@MegsAreEvil said:
LOL ... punishing players for playing an multiplayer game together. Just how biased are you?
I don't think this is a question of bias. It's SWF 3 and 4 man gain a crazy massive buff in the game with zero consequence. SWF has 3 core benefits that are so substantial that they practically break the game. Firstly, They have innate have access to perks extra perks such as Bond,Kindred,Alert and most aura reading perks without equipping them. Secondly, time optimization allows them to complete generators,totems,open chests, exit gate far beyond solo survivors consistently. Lastly, They are able to coordinate perks, items, offering(Map choice) and use these functions more efficiently(e.g Object of Obsession). In my opinion, If a team is either 3 stack or 4 man, survivors who are in the stack should receive flat action speed penalty(15%) for each member in survivor groups. Solo and Duo should not be affected as they aren't as game-breaking most of the time. In any case, talking about SWF is like opening can of worms, taboo topic for how overpowered it is.
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I am hyped for nurse. I'm hoping they remove her range add-on and extra blinks and spread her add-on power across several add-on. Like Fatigue time reduction, increased blinked window, Increased charge speed are useful parameters for nurse, but Extra blinks and Range increase literally remove any and all counter-play from nurse. They could probably also add Plaid Flannel in her base kit so newer players suck less at nurse and maybe help console people(apparently?).
For doctor, I just hope they remove the charge speed decrease from range add-on, it ruins your ability to skillful land timed shocks on pallets, other than that, he is fine. if they wanted to make more viable to billy-tier, an add-on that decrease shock channel time or increase movement speed while channeling shock(Pink add-on) would massively improve his chase times on extremely long loops.
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Will Freddy Z-block,Unicorn Block and Sheep block receive useful status effects to help Freddy in chases with snares(Such as Hindered,Exhausted,Exposed effects)?
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I don't think this sprint burst change is an exploit, I have feeling that it was balance test for the perk that purposely made it on live servers. In general all survivor builds use at least one exhaustion perk and all of the exhaustion perks(besides head on) grant same bonus of increasing movement speed, so in the end of the day, It's matter of choice for which exhaust perk you use. If your attempt to test a change regarding a perk, they should at least not be so obscured about it, since any change can always be reverted at any given moment. I think the perk is alright, but one of major problems of allowing a perk like this to be active at any given time is lack of telltale that a survivor is going to use it. Dead hard gives telltale by survivors looking behind them+injured, Balanced Landing requires a levitation, Lithe requires a vault, so as killer, you can easily predict these behaviors from survivors and formulate a strategy once you know what their exhaustion perk of choice is. With this exploit, you can't really counter-play the perk, It's just a time waster, than again most survivor mains include myself use dead hard because you can use the dash to reach pallets/windows that you normally wouldn't be able to get to in time that also leaves little counter-play for classic m1 killers in loops. so there's that.
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@Peanits said:
For the traps, paying attention alone isn't necessarily good enough. Realistically speaking, you're not going to memorize every single pallet. Doing so would require you to search the entire map before falling asleep, but even then, as soon as someone gets chased all of that goes out the window; they could have used a real pallet and it could have been replaced with a fake one. For the snares, you might be able to see them, but seeing them won't change the fact that they're there. If it's in a loop, you're still going to be slowed. If it's in front of a window, you're still going to get a medium vault instead of a fast vault.
The dream projection is three seconds, not five. Assuming the survivor reacts instantly- they're not going to- and starts sprinting right away, they could only get 12m of distance. They would also leave a trail of scratch marks, effectively allowing you to hook someone, spot another person with BBQ/TT, then teleport and immediately start another chase. Bonus points if you've got Pop Goes The Weasel. It definitely has some practical applications.
Good luck on the PTB! Hopefully it all goes well. It's good to hear that you're excited to try him.
My prediction in red ranks players won't get out of sleep state. Instead, if Freddy places snares at loops, people will run over those snares when Freddy is not there and therefore can't capitalize on the slow(Like hag). If you are asleep and Freddy places traps on a loop, you will place pallets down early and since most of loops are too large for a killer capitalize on 15% slow, you will be forced to break the pallet. so in essence, Freddy will be like a worse version of clown. People drop pallets early on clown and people can still get all generators done before all pallets are gone. I think people can react on his teleport even if it was 1 second and even if you use perks like BBQ or Thrilling Tremors to teleport to correct generator, Freddy will be unable to defend hooks when he commits to a teleport, so people can literally just run at hooks with no fear. The fake pallets are interesting, however they require an add-on and I think you can guess which pallets used by terror radius for where other survivors are running. so for example, if there is terror radius chase by killer shack, there's good chance that killer shack pallet is "used up", So you can guess which pallets used up. The irony is that some people might place pallets down for which they think are fake by accident, so that has potential to be abused by Spirit Fury+Enduring. I wouldn't be surprised if fake pallets got weaker after ptb, it just seems that way for killer powers.
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Freddy dream transition time was never frustration for freddy players. It was the fact that if players split up, he can never get multiple in dream state, therefore he can never achieve map presence, slow the game down or acquire meaningful information. Also, Most of the meta perks such as Adrenaline and Self-care naturally counter his power, so even if you do find multiple people in dream state, They can easily render your power irrelevant. So why would freddy player be upset about his rework? He lost what made him good(Strengths), Information and player juggling and gained nothing of value while being even easier to counter-play(magnified weakness).
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Can you improve freddy's Fire up perk by 1%?
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/564593#Comment_564593
This doesn't quite make sense. The number of players per side has no impact on your personal scoring. The goal behind the changes is to level out the average bloodpoint earnings between the two sides (on average, killers earn more bloodpoints per match right now). Increasing killer bloodpoints as well would only exacerbate the gap.
This has the added benefit of helping with queue times. Rather than having everyone flock to playing killer during a bloodhunt, you could play whichever side you're comfortable with and end up getting more or less the same amount of points. This means faster and more consistent queue times for everyone, which means more matches, which means more points. It's a win win.
Suggestion for changes. Escaping gives 8000 bloodpoints instead of 5000 on survival. Increase bloodpoint gains for completing a generator(2x), such as that complete 2 whole generators grants max bloodpoint. Healing other players gives more bloodpoints(2x as much) so if you safety unhook 2 people and heal 2 people, it grants near max bloodpoints. Boldness points for chasing is ok, however stealth bonus is very low so it should give more for stealth a killer.
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The OP and @spymature definitely does not play spirit and I wouldn't be too surprised to say low rank survivor. There is a reason why everyone calls spirit the queen of mind games in DBD and she's arguably one of the most balanced killers in the game. The mind game for spirit works like this. You run to a loop, then when you think the spirit is using the power, you drop the pallet and this pallet becomes the mind game. If you wonder why this is the mind game, it's because spirit has 110% movement speed and she will most likely never get bloodlust because of phase walk makes you lose vision of survivor therefore canceling it. So the mind game works like this, the spirit has 3 possible actions she can do and you have 3 possible actions. She either stands still, walks to right of side of the pallet or walks to left side, your options are walking right side, left side or slow vaulting a pallet. If you make the correct read, the spirit wastes her power and is forced to break the pallet. As spirit, you never want to break the pallet. A few tips, If spirit used her power to start a chase, standing still does nothing because her power has internal cooldown, so you can safely call her bluff. perks that alert you of her presence like Spine chill or hide your presence such as Iron will or Dance with me can play.
I like killers that have some sort of anti-loop potential/mind game potential because they're more challenging to beat, but most people just like to stomp weak killers and take easy 4 man escapes. I find it extremely boring and very imbalanced, however each to their own.