Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Onyx_Blue said:
@Devil_hit11 yeah, I don't understand why the obsession is boosted when them sinply being alive is a boost to them. They don't suffer the debuff and the killer cannot kill them or risk losing his tokens unless obsession switches. But like I said, perks should not be what a killer needs to feel like they have passive pressure on the map
I agree, but the way DBD is now is that if you want something, you need invest a perk slot to get it. Sometimes, what you give up one match may lose you another match. It just so happen that a lot of the killers, not all of them, but many of them lack map presence. It's all about having low opportunity cost. if you do 1 medium chase and like 3 generator pop, that's not very good game pacing for you. Not many of the killers excel at chases, so a lot of the game boil downs to attrition with pallets and out positioning injured survivors. Personally, I love chasing survivors and I love the chase as survivor. I think it's way more fun play style, however you don't really get a chance to play that way if the game ends too quickly. good thing that Halloween event will come up soon, so it will be a bit less stressful hopefully.
@Rezblaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/788432#Comment_788432
Killing the obsession doesn't mesh well with any of the Shape's other perks. Play With Your Food and Save The Best For Last all worked by ignoring the obsession.
Having Dying Light activate by KILLING the obsession is counter to the Shape's beginning perks. It just meshes better with everything else, and doesn't require tunneling to activate. The change needed to happen.
Though I agree, the buff is really strong and makes Dyling Light only optimal on the Plague.
Old dying light was meant synergy with Myer purple tombstone piece. It wasn't meant to synergy with his other perks.
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@Phox said:
There’s been lots of talk of this before, and the consensus for most is we would rather have another objective to extend the game. Nobody wants to play a progress bar simulator. Doing gens is already boring, especially with things like ruin, dying light and thana. If gen times were increased I think a lot of people would just quit playing survivor because of how boring it would be.
I just wish dying light didn't give 33% healing speed bonus. Previously, it used to be that having dying light alive hurts you, but when you killed that player, you got a reward. now, you need keep that person alive, but you get hurt for that person being alive. I just wish that when you play well, i.e kill all 4 people, hook a lot and injure/apply antiquate map presence, you end up winning. It's one of the reason that Freddy is like one of my favorite killers now because when you play well as him, the game says you win and you often know yourself that you played well. I don't think they need increase generator time with Freddy, they need make other killers around same level of Freddy and I think improving dying light would might do that. these days you'll mostly just see corrupt intervention or hex:ruin and both of those perks are hit or miss. both of them don't really influence my play as survivor so I could care less about them i guess.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/787559#Comment_787559
I’d like something less convoluted, whilst still keeping some complexity, and sophistication. Perhaps some amalgamation of his add ons and status effects.
Also, get rid of the switching modes. It’s unintuitive.
IMO I don’t think doc is particularly terrible. I think players using him are at fault with not strategising around the long game, far too unimaginative with his perk loadouts, don’t put enough emphasis on getting everyone to T2 madness quick enough, forget that T3 is more like RBT: a time waster and Doc should seek out other survivors to irritate. Oh and WAY too much emphasis on trying to interrupt vaults and actions with his shock. Sure it’s an absolutely nice useful bonus, but it’s not the primary purpose of his power.
Doc should focus on wearing them down, create pallet dead zones, make gen repair a difficult process.
A lot of doctor's skill-cap comes from switching modes. You always have to pre-plan ahead for when you want to shock a loop. I mean take for example when your at shack or at jungle gym, you have to predict whether to shock vault or the pallet. I really like where his skill-cap is at right now. It's more that when you use his power, it often wastes more time in a chase applying afflictions then just walking forward and M1 with him. It's kinda like myers where you always have somewhat of slow start. I think doctor has potential to be very potent killer. I just feel like his chases often take longer than they should and he loses a lot of his tracking power when you hit madness T1 at the start of the game. Most of the perks that help you find other survivors feel stronger then his power is at finding survivors.
@Mochan said:
I don't know how drastic it will be. But I predict a rework akin to Freddy.
Old Freddy and Doctor are pretty similar. They were pretty weak at high ranks, but murder on the low ranks. The reason I believe Doctor has been singled out for a rework is precisely because they intend to remove the things about him that absolutely terrorizes low rank survivors, but give him something good so he is competitive at high ranks.
I just hope it doesn't come off as a lazy rework. The image teleportation is an interesting idea, but to be honest I could see that becoming way too powerful. I don't know how they will do it. And frankly I am sick of teleporting killers, it's like every killer can teleport these days.
I mean, if your skilled enough as killer, No perks, no add-on Wraith can murder low ranks. It's why you don't really bother to balance for low-rank. all the killers can do well when you face easy opponents. Global TR would very interesting for doctor as it would give merit to aura-perks that very few people use for killers. I could see that as a gimmick ultra-rare add-on. If anything killers like Billy, Freddy and Huntress are good hallmarks for where most killers should strive to be. Lose when played poorly, win when played correctly.
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In my opinion, I'd say like 75% of the reason why killer is stressful to play is generator speed. most of the survivors aren't that good at the chase and you can down them on reasonable amount of time if they're out of position. A lot of the players who aren't really that good at the chase just end up throwing every jungle gym or safe pallet on the map and by the time you end up breaking all these safe pallets, SWF has enough coordination to complete every generator before the survivor runs out of pallets. I mean some people have even done challenges of like "escape 50 times in a row", it's like that is some sort of an achievement or just statement of fact that generators go by so fast that you can win 50 times in a row. Escaping should be rare occurrence, like "wow, you triumph against a greater force" but instead it's like the norm. Against the better teams, you'll be lucky to kill even one or two of them with low-tier killer. It is for that reason that most player play viable killers as to just stand a chance against good survivors.
I think part of the reason why generator speed is even a thing is because killers don't get any rewards for hooking survivors. Until it's their 3rd hook, the game still moves at the same pace. They don't really get much for injures either if the survivor just ignore health state and uses pallets at safety nets to lethal hits. when that's the case, map presence files out the window.
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@Peanits said:
Making it injure survivors would completely negate a perk like Inner Strength and greatly reduce the value of others (i.e. Head On). Other survivors would just stop using them entirely once they know the killer's using it.
Exposed has a bit of a risk, but works better with other perks. It could backfire, but you can also outlast the effects. Maybe making the timer a little longer would help, but making it straight up injure you would discourage people from using lockers entirely (at which point, your perk isn't doing anything).
Iron maiden has to be like one of the top 10 useless killer perks. a survivor could care less for 15 seconds expose effect. I've never been downed by iron maiden exposed effect and I've almost seen no killer run that perk. I think expose effect should be like 60 seconds long like most exposed effects. Also in case you guys don't know, Huntress reload animation is bugged with that perk.
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@PGJSF said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/83045/self-care-is-not-a-good-perk
If you play solo you just can’t afford to be injured while doing gens without any information at all. Medkits aren’t endless.
you shouldn't need to heal yourself more than twice per match. Once at best. With that being said, Self-care as a perk went from a must-have best survivor perk in the game to an off-meta perk that requires Botany knowledge+Resilience to really be worth it if you want to spam it. In some sense, Healing in dbd for survivor is somewhat crutch because healing is same as gaining an exhaustion perk and all exhaustion perks in my opinion are crutches for getting out of bad positioning. They also function as chase extenders which are really bad right now for killers because of how badly they're pressed for time against better survivor players. For that reason, healing is kinda tough to balance because better players take fewer hits so undoing a killer's work is really bad where as lesser skilled survivors need safety nets. That's large reason why in soloqueue, I tend to run We'll make it so I can fix my teammates errors, but I'd recommend using Bond to find teammates to heal you if you feel insecure when playing injured.
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/777675#Comment_777675
Failing skillchecks is exactly what Freddy wants you to do. Because it regresses the gens even more.
That doesn't matter if generator is near 0%. Everything about Freddy was explained step by step in developer stream for when he was reworked for how to get out of dream world. I remember people saying he wasn't annoying to play against and that rework was complete success. All of sudden, playing against Freddy is not an instant win so automatically, It's instant disconnect. The survivors entitlement is real. It's like people don't want to learn to play against the an M1 killer.
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@Groxiverde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/777137#Comment_777137
The reason I commit suicide is because I know I won't have fun, so what's the point of playing?
I still play against spirits with prayer beads, billies with instasaw, nurses omegablink... Because at least when I work on my objective against these killers I feel like I'm doing something productive you know?
Against the freddy build I mentioned I can work on a gen for 1 minute, then he comes with pop and kicks it, chases you and hooks you. By the time I return to the gen it is almost 0%. So you have to work again on it with +15% penalty to repair and ruin skillchecks, knowing that freddy can come and use pop again. That's so disgusting and UNFUN.
And calm down buddy.
how have people not... figure out the counter to this strategy yet? Jump Rope+Swinging chains is countered by failing skill checks just like old freddy. The perks can be used on any killer and they can be prevented from ever functioning. please stop sandbagging your teammates.
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@Peanits said:
It could be neat. What do you have in mind? I would be very hesitant to add anything to do with generator repair speed, though. That could get out of hand pretty quickly.
what about a perk that makes you stun the killer for longer with a pallet when injured. Maybe this perk could be unaffected by killer perk Enduring. The stun shouldn't too long though, than again this could be an exhaustion perk as well.
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The game says you've won when you've piped. The problem with current ranking system is that it tries to discourage certain type of behaviors so that the game isn't unfun for either side. Technically 4 kills on killer regardless of method should be a win, but the emblem system doesn't want you to play Insidious Facecamp Leatherface to achieve a 4k or immersion Claudette with a key. Those extreme behaviors just seem to question whether absolute piping is healthy for the game and honestly I couldn't really give a clear answer to that. What I will say is that some of the emblems have some problems in them especially on the killer side. A big portion of the chaser emblem requires you to hit survivors, however it doesn't count instant downs as 2 hits, so killers like Myers,Plague and Hillbilly get punished for using their power. The sacrifice category requires you to hook 9 times to get iridescent sacrifice, but you can't control if survivors kill themselves on the first hook or disconnect. You also lose out on hooks if you Mori them and some killer powers have an add-on or something like a mori build into their kit, so mori hurt the killer scoring right now.
There are also some extreme cases regarding the inability to protect gatekeeper as killer or the inability to get boldness/healing points as survivor in edge cases depending on how the killer or teammate play but that's whole other side topic. Pipping is winning, it is just that there are some issues for how the ranking system counts as a win and most of it relates to certain categories relying survivor performance or killer performance rather than individual play.
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He's kinda in strange spot. Everything that doctor has is what every other killer has, but stronger. For example, If you want to use fake pallets, you'll just play Freddy. You want to hide red glow or play stealth killer with calm add-on's? Ghostface. You want to have a bit better chase game with exhaust/shock? Play a killer whose good at the chase. Spirit, Huntress,Nurse etc. I remember when dbd first game out and people used to be scared of being in madness and now it's like you could care less about being in madness.
I'm expecting a new ultra-rare add-on that hopefully makes doctor competitive at higher ranks of the game. I remember that he used to be able to see survivor's aura when they were snapping out with nurse calling and that gave him some good information so that would be a cool add-on to use. My opinion would be to increase base range to Moldy Electrode and change range add-on decrease charge time or increase movement when shocking. That would improve his chase game by like a mile.
@Mellow7 said:
No movement speed penalty during the charge of his shock, increased blocked interactions from 1.3 to 1.8 or 2 seconds if possible and moldy electrode range for base kit. Would like to see an add-on that decreases charge time as well.
The stun on doctor shock is indicated at the bottom of the survivor UI next to the perks. It's like 2 seconds long. If you make it too long, than doctor loses his some of skill-cap which is all about getting inside your opponents head and timing shocks, animation canceling modes and using his madness as information tool for juggling.
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@Peanits said:
It's still an ongoing process. It was mentioned recently that the Kindred change that was originally suggested wouldn't be happening, but we do our best to keep solo players in mind while creating new content (and updating existing content). Things like the hooked survivor being able to reveal Ghost Face and being able to see where a portal is being cleansed against the Demogorgon are small details to help solo players get the same info as SWF groups. A group on voice chat could communicate this info anyway (e.g. he's camping being the hook waiting to stalk you, be careful), so it only serves to bring solo players closer to the same level.
Also, we combined the SWF and solo buttons on the menu. /s
that statement sort of felt like it dodged the question. Ghostface getting revealed by hooked and down survivors annoys the killer more than it does anything to shrink the gap between SWF and Solo. Changes like that intentionally make the killer power weaker for no reason.
The gap between SWF and Solo stems from base game play, not from external interactions between killer powers. Communication through 3rd party programs provides information that shouldn't be accessible in the game. For example, A single person running object of obsession gives entire survivor team near perfect and complete information for what the killer is doing when the perk is suppose to be only for the player using it. They also gain access to perks like Kindred, Alert, Bond, Better together and Empathy, on top of all that, they also get all meta-powerful perks. I mean just imagine being to select 10 perks on killer, It would probably be pretty crazy. Using all these information perks, they can accelerate the game tempo because of enhanced coordination. They also mess up a lot of killer powers for example, Hag/Trapper traps lose their surprise factor or status effects like Knockout/Blindness lose their potency. SWF is like only thing in the game where you get no negatives and just massive buffs to survivor for free. It would be fine for SWF to exist the way it does now, but only if the base game was balanced for that. In my personal opinion, Playing SWF and using it properly is kinda like cheating now for most of the M1 killers. On the bright side, only like 10% of the matches are SWF so only 10% of your matches are miserable. I would like to imagine how it would be if it was every match. In that regard, It's not that big of an issue if it only affected smaller portion of the games but it's still in the game.
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My top 2 changes would be revert terror radius change from 32->24 and revert fatique change from 4 ->3
Nobody likes taking decisive strike stun for using their power. Lower TR allows Legion to use Nurse calling better and Injured survivors are more afraid low TR killers then normal TR.
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@Mochan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/757209#Comment_757209
That's crazy OP.
It would literally be impossible to lose him in a chase, you are basically just counting the seconds until you die. The moment you put any distance he just cloaks and he is right behind you.
And we don't need another BBQ Billy in the game. Billy is bad enough. Wraith is now a BBQ Billy who is a lot harder to see and is 100% maneuverable?
No, just no.
He has that in the game. It's purple Windstorm+Purple Uncloak add-on and wraith is fairly weak. The game was never about hide and seek. It was always about two things. Completing generators before the killer kills you and Stalling the killer out and you do that by using pallets and looping. Juking and Stealth are alternative/secondary methods to wasting a killers time. Baring Spirit and Nurse, you don't even need to learn juking or stealth to win. Any killer can win a chase when he finds a survivor, the question is not whether he can win the chase, the question is at what cost killers pays for attempting to win that chase. In many ways, Wraith is like worse old Freddy without wallhack or speed slowdown or perfect stealth. Freddy used to have long sleep transition time in which he couldn't attack survivors and Wraith has uncloak time in which he also can't attack survivors. Wraith's power is like a "do nothing power" until you use some add-on that gives some random effects to cloaking and those often shape his m1 playstyle.
If he had invisibility, he might be more successful killer at playing hit and run play-style as survivors would maybe fear him a bit more, than again it is wraith. He is sort of pushover most of the time.
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@Lambda said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/750787#Comment_750787
Well if it's a 4 Man SWF the person being chased would be the runner, the person who's job is to keep the killer away from the generator people for as long as possible, and even if the killer puts two and two together and thinks "Hmm maybe I shouldn't really chase this guy around anymore I should look for gens" the generators would've probably already repaired by then because of the speed boost they get
playing devil advocate, what happens if you face a team with all talented runners who are all red ranks in soloqueue? right now, when you play killer, your usually praying that they don't find ruin too quick or your praying they're bad and they fail a bunch of ruin skillchecks. You can win all the chases within like 40 seconds but still barely win/lose. I kinda wish they buffed dying light to not have negatives because that perk rewards the killer for hooking people, so if a killer is good, they get rewarded for their map presence, and if the killer plays bad, then the perk won't help them. Another solution they could look into is making all hex perks have no lit totems. If all of them are dull, people would have to cleanse every totem they find if they want to remove the hex and killer could use hex totems as win conditions. It would change totems from secondary objectives to almost primary objectives that survivor could lose by if not dealt with similar to how NOED works. This could indirectly extend game time. I don't really mind totems being like that, but my only concern would be that totems in my opinion take little skill to use. I like perks that you earn because they enrich skill in DBD but it is understandable for DBD has a large variety of perk-types.
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I started reading the thread regarding Iridescent head Huntress. Let's explain why that add-on isn't as crazy as Mother Daughter Ring+Prayer Bread Spirit or Omega Blink Nurse. When you play against Huntress, and you enter a chase, you have to dodge 4/5 hatchets to survive a huntress chase(80% of hatchets). When you play against Iridescent head Huntress, the play-style against Huntress for how to beat her does not change. In fact, it may even be easier to face a iridescent head Huntress over a double-wind up huntress because in this game, reliability for a killer is everything. The more reliable a strategy is, the stronger that killer is. The Iridecent Head huntress is an example of health strong add-on because it amplifies a player's skill-level with said character. you still have to land hatchets and the chance of landing a single hatchet is same on normal huntress as it is with iridescent head. The only thing that changes is the reward is amplified. With Omega blink nurse, If a player is good at nurse, the opponent ability to outplay the nurse greatly diminishes if not completely vanishes(I.E loss of counter-play). The loss of counter-play removes the skill from said character and therefore is deemed broken because it's success rate is too high. I'd go on to talk about what's wrong with Mother Daughter Ring+Prayer bread Spirit(Known as Generator Grab Spirit) but I can't really be bothered to provide deep explanation. All you need to know is that it forces you to run a survivor perk and add-on combination has almost no drawbacks, only massive buffs with drastic gameplay domino effect(Gen tapping). The less people know about it, the better.
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@Peanits said:
Yes, we did. They were far too powerful and didn't take any planning or skill to use. Any time you got hit, you could use it to get a free health state. You could even use a syringe after the killer downs a survivor to completely negate the entire chase and reset them back to healthy. It was definitely too much.
I think this very mood point but the current Purple instant heal is stronger then pink instant heal. If a killer performs an offense action(Swings,Chainsaws) and you pop a purple instant heal as they hit you, it gives endurance effect for 15 seconds. This means you can survive an instant down whereas previous instant heal was countered by instant down. The pink instant heal just halves the amount of time needed to heal and saves 16 seconds. even though purple has higher skill-cap to use, I feel like it has more potential. Do you think rarities should be swap or should both instant heals be able to counter instant down? I find it very interesting buff to instant heals, however I didn't think they needed buffing. I don't really use them when playing survivor so I'm probably not the best person to comment on it. those are just my thoughts on the changes.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/734895#Comment_734895
No. I just like talking about things like this. I've been doin' it since the alpha. Playing devil's advocate is a good way to spark some constructive discussions.
technically, you have same chances to dodge a normal hatchet as iri hatchet. I mean you only have 3 strikes or your out, they're not using wind-up add-on that make huntress hatchet considerably easier to hit. it does make huntress stronger due to faster down potential, but it doesn't make her unfair to face. it just punish misplays harder and i think that's a healthy design for an add-on that is powerful. It's harder to face, but it's not unbeatable. a lot of the game is about positioning and if your out of position to get hit by iri hatchet, then that's kind of classic example of git good as survivor. It is obviously understandable that survivor has to take risks, but that is much of the same for killer.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/732774#Comment_732774
The problem is that OMEGAblinks and Prayer Beads can be found very quickly at prestige level 50 :/.
It's not just that. it's a bit more complicated. each component of that build has very specific synergy that makes nearly unbeatable. If you read mother daughter ring, it gives you massive speed boost but takes away scratch marks, but notice on how the lack of scratch marks has no impact on his ability to chase. It's because he can nearly pinpoint exact location of survivors in a chase using footsteps, breathing and moan(injured). It's like omega blink nurse, but omega spirit instead. The extra speed gives him the ability to make further distances to gen grab. Monitor makes it so that if your out terror radius, your suppose hear spirit's phase walk sound, but with prayer breads, that negative is removed so it allows you to go next to generator(with no TR) and gen grab them. Surveillance and Discordance highlight generators so you can accurately select which generators to gen grab. even if you removed prayer breads from that build, you'd still notice that build is "insane", since spirit just needs looking into at some point in regards to tracking capacity.
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@Financial_Stability said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/729690#Comment_729690
"I dont feel you have lots of tools to avoid her"
I get that, but I have experienced it first hand. It's just a matter of learning how to outplay a Nurse. What the true good Nurses will do is predict where you're going to go, and breaking their hundreds of hours of what survivors do in this situation is what allows for counterplay. You may "feel" a certain way, but it takes time to learn, especially since you don't play against Nurse every game. Understanding that if at all possible running away from a Nurse instead of staying inside a structure can lead you to leave the max range of a Nurse's blink and allow you to make it to another structure to prolong the chase. You can't just keep bashing it in and trying without thinking. Work smart, not hard. All I ask is that you see it from my perspective. Not trying to change your mind, but allow yourself to open up to new ideas.
Many people think there is no counterplay to Nurse. So it's been ingrained in most of the players minds that no matter what they do, they can't win. And if you aren't working and playing smart with the idea that no matter what you do, you will die, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Break away from that mindset. You won't be able to escape a Nurse 100% of the time. But that's how it should be. If everything had counterplay, nothing would be viable. Sometimes it is necessary to have overly strong characters and powers in order to bring out a more strategic mindset. Reminds me of For Honor. People get mad over unreactable attacks, but if everything was reactable no one would attack. That kind of philosophy is necessary in order for games to thrive, in my opinion of course.
I don't think anyone is really arguing that nurse has no counter-play, it's more that her counter-play is limited. I think nurse counter-play can be summed up into 2 parts. the first part is that if you have a LOS blocker, you can use this LOS blocker to move left or right. The other situation is that if your in open field, you have a choice between running forward or moving backwards in assumption that nurse will over-blink such that her chain-blink won't reach you. so by that logic, nurses blinks are 50/50 mind game, right? well yes and no. The best way to explain this is that imagine a survivor who has dead hard and normal 115% killer. If a killer wants to counter dead hard, their typical response will be to talegate the survivor until they're right next to the survivor such that they can do an instant M1 swing that a survivor can't react in time to dead hard. The thing with nurse is, unlike other M1 killers, M1 killers can decide when they want to swing, Nurse after blink can't decide when she wants to swing after a blink, for that reason, Dead hard as a perk is hard counter to nurse as it essentially gives you a free instant heal against nurse. Back to nurse, nurse doesn't need to perfectly blink on top of the survivor, she only needs to use her blink such that she is in lunge distance to attack the survivor(similar to how m1 killers use their 115% ms to reach survivors), as such your able to use your first blink on either side of a LOS blocker to find out which side the survivor went, then use your second chain-blink to blink next to the survivor, and so long as your within lunge range, you'll be able to curve around just about any object to hit a survivor. It's very similar for open field, however in open field, there is a small gap in nurse blink where she physically travel to the location(at max distance) and if your familiar with nurses muscle memory for blinking, you can exploit this very short gap against nurse. Nurse has counter-play, it's just far more limiting than other killers.
While we're on topic. Let's talk about the other killer that survivor mains complain about which is spirit. A common complaint is that "Prayer beads are op, please nerf dev". Prayer beads aren't overpowered, Spirit has visual cue on her model where her scales light up signalling that she is phase walking. Prayer breads remove sound cues on her spirit walk. The idea that prayer breads make spirit overpowered is forum myth and player base myth. Spirit has 3 points of interest that make spirit strong. Firstly, unlike other killers, Spirit power grows stronger if she has more information on the survivor. When a survivor is injured, they make grunts of pain pinpointing their location and as you know, spirit's power is entirely based off tracking. For this reason, Spirit has built pseudo exposed function in her power. She changes altruistic from a secondary objective to a mandatory objective. A common argument is that you can avoid this by using Iron will, however it just so happens that Nurse has a perk called Stridor which both counters the perk and most importantly, it makes survivor's breathing louder. Survivors breathing, footsteps and blood marks when injured cannot be controlled. Unless you run No Mither, you can't tell your survivor to stop bleeding against Spirit's Father glass add-on.You can't tell your survivor to stop breathing loudly and there is no perk in the game that makes your footsteps silent. It is for that reason that most high-level survivor players play Ace because he has the most silent breathing, Injured moans and footsteps in the game. Spirit is strong because her power is based off tracking and beyond controlling scratch marks from walking, you can't really hide from certain tracking tool provided in the game for the killer. Spirit is strong killer because her counter-play is limited just like Nurse.
In my opinion, I think Nurse and Spirit are genuinely the most misunderstood killers in dbd. Those 2 killers are far beyond any other killer in term of sophistication. They're really hard to understand, so that's why they're hardest to beat because most people don't understand their power within DBD game play. I think you need to play the game a lot and be really good at the game to beat them. They're not impossible to win against, but they're very challenging to win against if the player who plays the killer is very skilled at the game. that's why those two killers are way beyond in power-level compare to the rest of the killer cast.
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@Surazaku said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/722016#Comment_722016
I mean based off what you said I drew a conclusion one of the best players in the game both killer and survivor shares the views I have on this perk and he is rank 1 with both so I don't hold much weight in what you say. And before you ask its Tru3ta1ent but you will probably say he is bad at the game next.
Tru3ta1ent is kind of right on this one though. In order to use this perk correctly, you need to not tunnel and not camp to make most use out of it. your essentially playing the most fair/unbiased way possible. The problem is that if you play fairly, the game doesn't really reward you as killer for playing this way. in fact it encourages you to do the opposite, to rushdown and kill 1 single player as quickly as possible because you know, if a 1 player is dead, than that's 1 person less on generators/1 less person healing, one less problem. Many killers proxy camp and Slug instead to win as that's their only option. It makes little sense that you playing fairly rewards the obsession with.... 33% healing action speed bonus, immunity to the perk itself and somewhat of obligation to slug the player for the perk to work. I kinda feel like if you hook 5 times, your clearly demolishing your opponent in chases so you should be given upper hand. I think the disadvantages that the perk brings are too large for benefit it gives you such that it isn't really worth it. If some of disadvantages of the perk were lifted, it would feel far less punishing to use. It's just not worth the hassle right now.
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@Zoldyar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/719387#Comment_719387
1.) So in other words, Spirit fury and enduring counter long loops.
2.) I personally disagree on more safe pallets than unsafe pallets because if that was the case then why is it that many people are complaining about the pallets in the new map being unsafe? Not to mention the hospital map, swamp map and a few other maps that have shown hardly any pallets. Then again It would be better to see a statement from the devs to see is there more safe pallets than unsafe pallets.
Judging from how two people that are more experience at the game than me are telling me this I shall take your words. However, you should know the pallets and vaults are just there to make chases longer for more gens to be done.
3.) What if the killer uses perks to hide or shorten their terror radius?
By the time a survivor knows the killer is coming they would have to be lucky in two ways.
Number 1 a pallet being nearby that hasnt been destroyed by a killer.
Number 2 The killer reaching you before you make it to a pallet.
Those are usually two of the most annoying things I go through when doing gens and realising the killer destroyed almost all the pallets.
4.)The point of sleath killer is to catch a suriviour by surprised and get a first hit in, right?
So if someone made a build to lower Plague's terror radius as much as possible, then wouldn't she be op?
Plague benefits from any choices that a suriviour makes which is what makes her one of the deadliest killers in my opinion.
If the suriviour is broken, perks such as iron will and e.t.c would become useless and allows all sleath plays a suriviour can make to also become useless. It also makes the suriviour a one shot meaning that the chase time won't last long. Why else is there a tier list for killers? It's because most of them involve on how quickly chase time ends using each killer. The chases is the main function to why a suriviour team commonly win games because it allows the killer to be distracted and allow other team mates to do gens.
I'm not going to explain what happens to when a suriviour cleanse because we should all agree it's ridiculously op. I think that should require more condition to be meant because if a killer starts slugging when using it, it's practically game over when she knows where everyone is.
4.) I have no problems with the nurse (mainly because good nurses are rare). However, Spirit and legion just ruin all points of thinking and strategy in this game.
It counters greedy looping. If you don't like stealth killers, you can run a perk called spine chill that gives a notification on bottom side when a killer is looking in your direction if you csre for stealth. The only perk that reliably lowers terror radius is monitor&abuse, they tried to make another one called Furtive Chase but the perk flopped. I mean, Leatherface has 1 shot, it doesn't mean that monitor&abuse as Leatherface is overpowered.
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@Zoldyar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/712469#Comment_712469
Firstly, I have over 365 hours of gameplay on this game. So I'm 100% sure I have enough experience to prove my point. Not only that but I made it to rank 1 consistently so I think I understand how the game works.
Secondly, the point was to show that in a rank 1 player to debunk your statement on saying I'm not.
1.) Both sides are feasible and if you are a good player you would know that. Killers such as Nurse, spirit, Hilbilly and e.t.c are there for a reason if you are struggling to win.
2.) The point was to tell you that all this looping won't work because why would a killer bother wasting time chasing you when there are other players left? Also you talk about loops but depending on the killer you are using it won't mamore ttet because Nurse, legion, hag and more cancel all loops.
3.) I don't know what time age you been playing this game but I think the majority of players know there is way more unsafe pallets than safe pallets. An example is the new map, the hospital map and the devs even confirming they reduce the large amount of safe pallets.
4.) Tru3 would disagree and agree depending on his mood. Also, ofc killer main would be using high rank killers because it's like seeing a high rank survivor using perks such as no mither or not meta perks such as self care, adrenaline, exhausted perk and e.t.c
5.) I strongly disagree because anti loop perks such as endurance and spirit fury allows you to skip the stun effect. You understand how unfair and broken this is? Also, the more I think about it, your point doesnt make any sense. Of course there is going to be alot of loop because the point of chasing is for the suriviour to waste the killer's time so other team mates can do gen. If they were to reduce the number of pallets then chases would need quickly and would commonly result to the killer winning. It's the reason why killers such as Spirit, nurse and e.t.c are tank high because they have a record of chase lasting within 20 seconds.
6.) No it isn't because the suriviour miss played because you should know that they are killers and perks that reduce the terror radius of a killer. So by the time the survivor realise the killer is there he is likely to get hit. Not only that but you must be joking with hitting through vaults, right?
7.) It seems that I might of underestimated you.
8.) Now I'm questioning your rank and gameplay because the point is to reduce the time of a suriviour healing in order to stop them in gens. Also, why would you care about loops when there is literally a killer such as Huntress, nurse and legion that basically ignore all loops.
9.) I don't see the point being a rank high rank killer when I have a friend that can tell me what it is like being one and I played a few games on it. It isn't anyway difficult as I thought you killer main would say it. Then again I used spirit because she is just a free win ticket.
I have about 1000+ hours in the game and I can say that most of those statements are incorrect.
I think there's few statement to debunk there.
1) Spirit fury+Enduring does not counter loops. what this perk combination does is shorten loops when it is active. when you loop a pallet, the objective of looping a pallet is to place the pallet as late as possible, but every time you perform a loop, the killer gets closer and closer because the killer has faster base movement speed then you do. Those 2 perks shorten loops artificially by forcing you to put a pallet sooner then you normally would. If you place a pallet too late, then spirit fury activates and you'll get hit. There are other myths like how bamboozle counters windows when in reality it allows you to "zone" survivors by allowing to vault faster. The window block is mostly for those god windows. It's very similar to how brutal strength is used to zone survivors on the bad side of the loop.
2) Almost every high-level player will tell you that this game has way too many safe pallets compared to unsafe pallets. The definition of safe pallet is a pallet that a killer can't play a mindgame to score a hit on a survivor at a pallet and regardless of bloodlust level, the survivor is able to vault the pallet before the killer can hit them. Since bloodlust takes so long to build up, we could just say that anything past level 1 is safe loop because the killer loses too much time if he tries to win this way. Looping is about making reads. Some killers are easier to read because they don't play any red glow mindgames, other killers are harder to read as their movement is not obvious. Most of the pallet are safe because the object does not have wall-sight blocker and the object is long enough to loop such that the survivor can always make it to the pallet before the killer can swing. There are some loops that are badly designed like double long wall loop with a pallet and window or certain pallets that landing a hit on a survivor is as simple as moving left or right, but most loops are either survivor sided or fair loops.
3) Indoor maps are somewhat special maps in DBD, they're designed for what I would call "Meme" builds like Scratch Mirror Myers or Amanda Letter pig. Those maps in general have more unsafe pallets than others because they aren't really design for normal killers. they're naturally killer sided. Majority the maps contain loads of jungle gyms or long walls with a pallet.
4) Plague is just as balanced as every other 1 shot killer. Many people believe billy is one of the most balanced killers because he capitalizes on survivors mistakes. being 1 shot doesn't mean anything in the game. It just means you can't make a mistake at a loop in a chase. All the normal killers have a terror radius and terror radius alerts survivor that the killer is nearby, so the survivor is almost always naturally in the advantage to position themselves in a power position. Red puke is anti-loop tool because it allows you to hit survivor past the pallet barrier, and those tools are in my opinion strongest in the game. If you can help it, you should never give a killer that tool at their disposal.
5) The reason why Nurse & Spirit are played at high rank because they shake looping fundamentals. Spirit can hear footsteps, see scratch marks and hear survivor's moaning removing the actual mind-game of her power devolving into an advanced method of tracking and Nurse can use blinks through walls to emulate normal killer movement. Some people will argue that their high-skill cap justifies their gameplay mechanic, others will argue that game-play mechanics that are killer sided shouldn't exist. I have no opinion of it other than they make survivor more challenging to play. I'll leave at that.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/714867#Comment_714867
This is true. But that would only exacerbate the issue of having TT + JS with RSN2 base kit. RSN2 being base kit alone wouldn't really break anything (although I personally wouldn't want it when I play Pig), but being able to take two add-ons to make the timer even longer would. Keep in mind that you only have about 12 seconds on average to get to that next box.
I definitely think it's possible to go too far in the other direction, where the trap becomes focused on killing people who aren't lucky rather than slowing down generators.
well right now, one of major issues with killer ranking system is that mori people doesn't count towards sacrifice emblem. Myers has similar problem with his tombstone add-on. you literally do not want those traps to kill survivors right now, so even if those reverse bear traps were intended to mori people, I think you'd need to rework the killer ranking system accommodate each individual killers play style. It's also problem with instant downs that chaser emblem doesn't count 2 hits. I know i remember some developer stream talking about reworking rank for killer vaguely, but I haven't really seen any progression on this front.
In any case, I wouldn't really touch those reverse bear traps. They're good for their intended purpose of stalling. Pig should get buffed movement speed on crouch, I wouldn't even see the problem if it was near max like 100%. It would allow her to get more first hits on unsuspecting player. I think she's heavily underrated killer because you can place traps on people, hook the player, chase another player and by the time you finish 2nd chase, BBQ will allow you to find the person with the trap who is most likely injured in front of a box. those traps while active are like -2 people repairing generators at all times. That is immense map presence, better then hex:ruin half the time. The reason why she isn't high-tier killer is because players can place pallets down early preventing you from playing the ambush mind-game. If the survivor isn't zoned out, they can also leave the loop. Some loops are too long obstacles, giving the survivor way too much time to react. There's just loads of counter-play that makes it too situational to use. I'm not sure what could be improved there, but maybe if it gave you more burst movement speed but kept dash distance the same, it might work on every loop. I'm not sure. If she ever got improved, it would be related to ambush charge and stealth.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/716273#Comment_716273
You could make the same use out of corrupt intervention though, which forces survivors to either travel toward you to do gens or waste 2 minutes waiting on the perk. Either way, you get some buffer from genrush at the point in the game where survivors hit gens the hardest. It's also ALWAYS consistent unlike ruin, which could last all game or 15 seconds.
I think corrupt intervention is good tracking perk because it theoretically makes survivors come closer to the center of the map. It doesn't impede generator progress though and since the killer can only really chase/pressure 1 or 2 survivors at most, generators will get done if the team is playing optimal at generators. If the survivors hide, than it also doesn't do much but it's very powerful with other tracking perks like discordance and whispers as those type of perks somewhat remove stealth from the game. Ruin is used a lot as perk because it allows killers to advance hook states of survivors without too many generators getting done. You can play the game without Ruin, but often, it forces the killer to slug if they want to win vs good optimal teams.
I'd say as far map design is concerned, the bigger the map, the harder it is to win as killer. If you ever wondered why some killers pick indoor maps like "The game" or Lery or the new hawkins laboratory, It has to do with the ability to pressure generators. pressuring generators isn't just getting people off generators, it's making them scared to repair them and indoor maps where you constantly hear terror radius make you question where the killer is. This is also why survivors usually pick Farm maps, Red forest , Mount Ormond Resort because those maps are so large that you physically can't pressure generators since it takes you like 40 seconds to walk from one side of the map to another. that's like half generator done. They're also really strong looping maps as most of the pallets are nearly all safe. On those maps, you'll basically just split the map in 2 and try to hook people on one side of the map to force others to come and help. There are some odd maps out there who also contain crazy loops, but most of the time, you don't need to commit to a chase that isn't worth winning, Some players run bamboozle to fix some of the imbalances of those crazy loops but I often question if that perk is really worth the perk slot.
I think moral of dbd is that if something is a problem in dbd, you just invent a perk to fix it. Is that healthy game design? I wouldn't know. but that's kinda how dbd works for both survivor and killer. you sort of just grow to accept those minor details in the game and move on.
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/714171#Comment_714171
I consider Plague stronger than Myers and right now she is fighting for a place in my top 5 killers with Demogorgon and Freddy.
Pig keep getting nerfed unfortunately, but she still isn't bottom tier, but Legion is actually trash. His stall won't do anything than just prolong a match where he barely can get a kill.
i'd say if you run monitor instead of useless surge perk, than she's probably best stealth killer. you'll ask, wait, how is 24 TR is a stealth killer. pretty simple, you don't need 0 TR to sneak up on people. only like first 20 meters of terror radius really matter, if the survivor is injured and there's no loop or pallet, then you're guaranteed to hit them and since plague makes everyone broken, they're always 1 hit down. Freddy, he has good stall, like really good stall with swinging chains and red paint brush. they can't fail skillcheck to wake themselves up, you can use teammates to wake yourself up, but each time you do, it takes longer and longer. your only real option is to go to clocks, but Freddy can intercept and juggle survivors really well. Fake pallets are pretty good but they use up one of your add-on slots. I think to be top-tier killer, you need to be able to hit survivors at all loops and for that to be the case, you need have some sort of anti-loop that makes loops like jungles gyms not 100% safe. At the end of the day, he is very healthy and strong killer, but you can beat him since he is m1 killer for the most part. I think those killers are somewhat underrated because they can upset more skilled teams. Not like other killers where you can literally throw down every pallet and win in like 5 minutes with good teammates.
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@Peanits said:
It could. We're keeping an eye on things first. The same thing happened with Urban Evasion back in the day, so it's not out of the question. If it looks like the perk is lacking and in need of a little love, we could always take a look at it later on. But if it turns out a lot of people are using it as-is, we don't want to go overboard and make it even better.
the perk is made for sprint burst users. so anyone who uses sprint burst can use the perk. I tried to go back to using sprint burst, but i don't know, i can't really go back to using it over dead hard because walking feels like wasting of time. with healing condition, your forcing people to also use self-care and self-care is very slow healing, so people try pair it up with perks like resilience and botany knowledge to heal faster, but it just isn't worth it. that perk is huge traphole. If the healing condition was removed, people could use it with iron will, but it wouldn't be unfair because killer can still track your blood trail. It would only be good vs spirit because you could potentially Juke better, but as it is right now, it has no potential.
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i know in most people tier list, they think plague is like bottom tier killer, but ironically, Myers somehow happens to go in some top-tier or mid-tier status when plague who puts everyone into unlimited tier 3 is somehow bottom tier. she's top tier killer for red ranks, even before change, Thanatophobia was always stable in her perk selection. I think people have notion that game-slowdown for killer is like not important. It's why I think people think pig is bad because they're like, these bears traps, they aren't killing people so it must be a bad power. same thing for legion. There's reason why everyone runs hex:ruin on killer, It's not because they like the perk, it's because they value game slowdown. In any case, if you face dying light+Thanatophobia plague, you should cleanse because generators will be very slow. try to get as many generators done before plague poisons everyone. eventually you'll have to face 115% ms huntress with ranged hatchets at loops which is very powerful.
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@Torquespin said:
Dead by Daylight patch 3.2.1 has just gone live. The two major changes following this update are:
The Demogorgon's 'Shred' ability now breaks pallets by default.
The matchmaking algorithm for Survive With Friends now uses the highest ranked player's rank to find a killer, instead of the average of all the ranks.
Now this is my very first time in my 2,332 hours of playtime that I have taken to the forums with an issue and direct feedback. I would also like to hear what the rest of the community thinks of these changes, so please leave a comment below.
Firstly, the issue I have a lesser gripe with, the Demo's 'Shred' ability. On the killer's launch, I initially disliked playing against him. I found his ability to leap from a distance and damage the player with little to no cooldown on the ability was a bit broken. This has not changed, but with every killer, you swallow it and develop counterplay. This is not where my issue lies, clearly. The default ability to break pallets makes the Demogorgon essentially the Hillbilly without the insta-down and with ZERO charge up for breaking these pallets. It's just left-click right-click, boom, pallet gone; this has NO cooldown? Ridiculous.
I understand that Behavior makes all new content temporarily OP for both sides, killer and survivor, respectively alternating. They want to make the new content look like a worthwhile sale, I get it. From a gameplay perspective though... What's next? Adding a killer who just blatantly removes unused pallets? The Demogorgon's ability minimalizes the competitive aspect of the game by reducing pallets to a temporary stall, even more so than they were. -- I could continue but this is getting long winded and, again, im interested to see what the community thinks of this change.
Secondly, the matchmaking logic change. Personally, in all of my hours, I rarely play SWF, most of my nearly 2.5k hours are solo. That being said, I sometimes get the privilege of being able to play with my brother and cousin who both live extremely far from me. They don't get to play the game as much as I do and they are completely unequipped to play against killers at my tier. -- That being said, is it fair that I, a consistent rank 1, get to fall back and play a few games at rank 15 or so? No. Not completely, but I'm a singular survivor. Any good killer worth there salt will instantly recognize, pre-match or during the match, that Im in another skill level than the rest of my peers. Most often, theyll run right off and eliminate my team or put me in a disadvantageous position to then kill me.
What I'm saying is that I'm a single survivor and my actual effect on the game is severely limited if the killer recognizes what theyre up against. I became just another survivor doing another generator. Now with this recent change, I will have to play at my PEAK and I'll have to carry my team. Which will be impossible. I'm good, but most often not good enough to run a red ranked killer five freaking generators to escape.
I digress. I'm slightly irritated with this new change. These are some of my thoughts and I want to hear yours.
If you want to know my opinion, He's weak killer and he needs more buffs. Juking the dash isn't too difficult and make good reads against fake lunges is relatively easy. It's funny on developers always say "Pressure Gen", than they give you an ultra-rare add-on that does exactly the opposite and impairs you from pressuring gens with portals. The other change is just to prevent people from Smurfing with SWF though i'm not sure if it changes much since those type of SWF usually aims for bully simulator in my opinion.
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@Alice_pbg said:
I honestly have no idea how you make a tournament of an asymetric game...
i think it's possible, you'd have 8 survivor teams and 8 killers. you gain points based off some scoring system. for example if winning for survivor is escaping, then 1 escape would be 1 point for each team and every additional survivor adds like 0.5. Killer would probably gain points based off piping, so if you get ruthless killer, you'd get 1 point. The survivor team and killer who scored highest would probably win. I'd imagine that few things would get banned though, mainly purple/pink instant heal add-on for medkits, petrified oak offering & keys for survivor and probably all forms of mori offering for the killer. I don't think it'd be interesting to watch though because you'd just see Nurse and Spirit every game as everyone else would have 0 chance to win.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/700783#Comment_700783
There's a line between countering and straight up preventing, though. Counters help against something, not prevent it. Ideally, you should have one of your perks completely negated just because someone else brought a perk.
soft counters hinder a mechanic. hard-counters disable the mechanic from the game. This perk is meant to hard-counter exhaustion, however it fails to achieve it's goal because it only works 50% of the time.... for 3 seconds. let me repeat that.... it only works for 3 seconds. 3 seconds is too low and 50% is terrible. buff the perk for so that it does it's job correctly.
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@Caretaker said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ca80ZwpsHs&list=PLA3nVFkhV4EKnLj2TN5-5ibJlSAc0XyGs&index=44
One chase, 3 gens. Even if I had found Claud, or dropped trying to look for her I'd still have lost 3 gens minimum before getting a single hook. Of course after this I was told to just apply pressure, how easy the game was, etc, etc. Please, explain to me how I was supposed to pressure those gens, and keep up the chase, and somehow prevent them from doing that within the first minute?
Also, before anyone says it, don't say just run Ruin. That wouldn't solve anything. Every time I have run ruin it blows at the beginning of the match, or the gens pop anyway cuz they're not rank 20s who can't hit skillchecks. I get that Legion is arguably one of the worst killers in the game now due to the pitiful "rework" but I don't think any killer outside of maybe Nurse or Billy would've done anything here. Even then plenty of safe pallets and loops so I still probably would've had a rough time.
Notice how that was the first instinct, just run to the pallet. Some didn't even try to run the loop, just sat at the pallets, not on the end to extend the chase. What I can do then? Nothing, I can eat the pallet, or run after you. There is nothing I can do in that situation, I just lose. I can't even catch up to anyone. I played the second Frenzy badly cuz for some reason my game was running sluggish and I haven't played them in a while so that's on me, but there's just nothing I could do in this match.
Yet I'm told constantly told how easy killer is, how op killers are including Legion. How hard it is to play survivor. I don't get how afking and holding m1 is difficult. Especially when you get a good runner. Of course I'll probably get flamed, and this'll be ignored by the devs cuz, "It's just them doing their objective." Funny enough they complained about me camping their friend end-game like I had a choice.
I don't get why survivors think they're slick waving and taunting, I'm not leaving when gates are powered. You come get your friend, or I'm camping them to death. I have no other objectives to defend and I'm not risking you running out the gate or looping me while the others save. Don't even try.
No, I don't want free wins, I don't want easy games. I want to feel like I have a chance to play the game. I either play like a complete #########, or I just lose all my gens and get no points/emblems while being told how easy the game is, and how bad I am. Killers are supposed to be the power role, don't get how it's going on 3 years now and people STILL cannot seem to grasp that concept, but oh well.
So i've read all 5 pages of this post and i have few comments to make. I'm sorry to say, but this is one of the cases in which genrushing unfortunately justified. At the start of the game, you took 40 second find someone which is fine, but after hitting Claudette, you decided to go on 60 second chase when you are not a 1vs1 killer. one of the problems with killer mains and this is true for survivor is that they believe this game is 1vs1 game which it isn't. for this 1 minute and 20 seconds, nobody needed healing, there was no gen pressure and the claudette was successfully wasting your time. 3 generators being complete was justified. You end up juggling few people in the middle game, then wandered around, did few chases and the game was over by then. you did poor job in using legion's killer power in the match and the idea nobody heals isn't true as everyone who was injured healed up by 3:52. All in all, you played very poorly in the match and the player caliber was beyond your level.
Even though this game doesn't have competitive scene. It doesn't mean that people don't want to win. a game can still be competitive in the sense that every player is trying their best to win. Unfortunately for killers, Add-on and Perks are not luxury. They are mandatory. If your not willing to use the best tools to improve your winning chances, then you deserve to lose when you face stiff competition. You don't really need to rely on meta tools, but know that you'll need more skill if you choose to play without them.
Majority of the games as killer are winnable. There is skill-cieling to dbd, but that only really occurs at the very top when everyone is making very little error. Majority of low-level games have a ton of weak-link survivors and many of them make a lot of errors which are easy to exploit as killer. that is why playing killer is really easy and every game is winnable until you hit the very top.
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Survivor: We'll make it
Killer: Monitor&Abuse
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DS is a bit like pre-nerfed BBQ when lockers didn't block aura's. you can counter the perk, but even if you do, it's still going hit you sometimes. It's by far strongest perk in the game. Doctor and Unnerving presence are soft counters to the perk, but they nerfed that by making skillcheck bigger when they reworked DS. that game shows some of doctor's latency problems with shock and just how many loops you have to go through as doctor to attempt anti-loop because of how slow the movement speed charge time is for the doctor and that was on "The game map", doctor's best map. Doctor was my first killer and still my favorite, so i can't wait till they rework his add-on's. It's nice to see people that actually know what they're doing with doctor instead of that 3 generator non-sense.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Dying Light also synergizes with other perks that want you to ignore the Obsession such as Rancor, STBFL and PWYF.
Dark Devotion doesn't synergize one way or another and Furtive chase synergizes but shouldn't be used along with MYC
I think your not understanding the aspect of time in the game. I'm not going write my calculations, but on average, if you can keep 2 people injure at all times & hook 4 people before 2 generators are poped, you'll gain around 2.5 "free" pop goes weasel charges in the game. Dying and Thano have massive synergy as they empower each other's capacity. The other irony behind perks like sloppy is that if you don't choose to heal, your essentially saying that your "fine" playing No Mither as a survivor which is like being permanent Evil within 3 Myers. The free botany knowledge is somewhat negated by the fact that every other player who heals who isn't Obsession loses time. Just incentive to heal is already extra time added to the clock for killer.this perk has great potential to replace Hex:Ruin because it does not rely on survivor's mistakes, but becomes stronger the better you play as killer. if your map presence is bad and your too slow at hooking people, than obviously this perk isn't for you. Pop goes weasel used to be a perk that nobody used as killer, than it got buffed and many killer players use it. They really need fix crashing so we can test the perk out, before drawing bias conclusions with no evidence to backup if the perk is good or not.
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@RIP_Legion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/692993#Comment_692993
Sure, especially for weaker perks. But a lot of good perks most people run usually always have an effect or come into play like Stbfl, Ruin, Enduring, Bbq, whispers, sloppy, and a lot more. Dying light does neither, by the time it's good the game is usually over.
It's just normal experience for killer. Nothing is really going to help you against Genrushing. I mean, I know that people say, apply map pressure, but like for example, I was playing Myers with Infectious fright, Monitor, Knock out with dead rabbit+J.Myers memorial which is a build oriented around slugging people with single evil within 3, then you random a map like Red Forest and your like, how exactly are suppose pressure a massively sized map. Dying light was suppose to be a perk that rewards the killer playing well by landing multiple hooks consecutively. however it has too many conditions/drawbacks like giving free botany knowledge and losing all tokens when Obsession is dead/dc/rage quit. anyhow, they need fix crashing before anyone can draw conclusions from the perk.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/692309#Comment_692309
That's the thing though; it's not meant to do the same thing as PGTW. If you're aiming to regress a generator that's being worked on, PGTW is the perk for you. If you're looking to hit multiple generators- but not as hard- Surge is for you.
PGTW already takes out a quarter of the generator. Having too much more on top of that would be excessive and just feel really annoying and boring to play against.
I think surge was pointless perk when announced at 32 range at 12%. With the current surge 8%, even if the effect was global, Surge would still probably not get used. All of the killer perks are bad. When it comes to designing a new character and creativity, your amazing at the job, but when it comes to balancing these new ideas, only word to describe it is abysmal in my opinion.
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I bet it's going to be instant down or something with portals. in general, it looks like killer is getting some decent buffs.
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DBD is a game based upon movement and when you create a killer that violates basic movement principals, It kind of breaks the game. Imagine if nurse didn't exist and people got the idea to add this killer power to the game today, I have feeling that this killer power wouldn't even pass beta phase. In any case, Omega blink and more than 2 blinks is has been proven to be stupidly overpowered and even if nurses had no add-on whatsoever, Nurse would still be strongest killer in the entire game just because she can ignore the survivor's defenses completely regarding vaults and pallets. Most of the maps are strategically designed to be massive open field maps with random debris and nurse's blink mechanic excels in those environments. Nurse only really becomes balanced when the map has enough wall-blockers to create uncertainty on the survivor's position and the only map that provides that type of fairness is lery. They said they're only going to touch her add-on, so her base should remain the same, so if your seasoned nurse, you'll still probably be able to dominate most teams with ease. The only thing i am curious about is if they'll make her easier to play for new players by making Plaid Flannel add-on default in her kit, than nurses will have much better understanding of their blink so even new players can probably pick-up nurse at that point. I can't wait to see her ultra rare add-on, as it could be very interesting.
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@Regionlock said:
I forgot to add, we all have our own opinions as to what is balanced or good design. For example Tru3 has stated before that NOED is bad design/broken when playing survivor, but I see no problem with cleansing a totem.. I mean if you even see NOED that means you were a lazy Gen rusher for the most part, and let's not pretend like most of us running adrenaline????
I think Tru3 is a cool guy and all, but clearly he has one vision and sometimes people don't like to admit that they just bandwagon on a rank 1's opinion. I've heard him say that billy's perfectly balanced compared to some of the other killers... Like, you ain't gonna convince me insta chainsaw billy with the perks I use is balanced. Everyone uses what is strong for a reason. Devs need to try there best to consistently shift the meta because no game will ever be truly balanced. Only certain people understand this, sadly.
Tru3 states that the reason why NOED is broken is because it grants the killer 4% extra movement speed meaning that every loop that is calculated with 115% killers becomes ineffective and therefore, a killer who has noed active has no counter. The counter-play to removing all totems isn't counter-play, it just changes the purpose of the perk from instant win end game button -> stall perk.
The reason why Tru3 says billy is most balanced killer in the entire game with instant saw is because you can juke billy. It doesn't matter what the charge time on chainsaw is as long you can parry the hit. In fact, All instant downs are balanced in the game so as long you can prevent them from occurring in the first place. Normally 360 Jukes don't work against killers, but in billy case, they literally do. The most powerful game mechanics in the game are anti-loop mechanics in which they prevent you from "dodging" hits. That's sort of the case when it comes to Nurse and Spirit with certain add-on's. You can smell a small sense of hypocrisy in that statement that you need "Unblockable" hits killers in order to balance SWF. This should give you a clue for how imbalanced SWF is. That's sort of his message at the end of the video when he says at 9:30 "The design team is amazing, but when it comes to balance, they're trash". The translation is that you can't beat SWF unless your killer power equals or surpasses them and for a lot of killers, that's just how the cookie crumbles.
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@Peanits said:
That 0.14m/s is bothering me for some reason.
I don't know if I could get behind an infinite Feral Frenzy. You already move significantly faster than the survivors. It would feel pretty bad to know that no matter how hard the killer messes up, they're going to hit you anyway. Trying to outlast their frenzy adds a lot more skill to playing as and against the Legion.
Probably wouldn't want to remove killer instinct either. The whole point behind frenzy is to deep wound a lot of people, slowing down the game while you go for a down. Removing killer instinct would make that way harder to do. You'd basically be losing the more important part of your power.
That rest don't seem too unreasonable, though breaking pallets while you can already vault over them seems a little redundant to me.
I still play legion even in his nerf state and he's still a lot better than most killers at applying map pressure simply because he can "4vs1" better than most killer cast. I just think that his rework implemented a lot of unnecessary nerfs to his power and I think majority of them can be reverted. The main ones being Fatique time, TR and Vault speed None of those changes had anything to do with moonwalking exploit or limited counter-play of spamming feral frenzy to down someone. Maybe some of his add-on could be improved a little bit or old ones could be returned like Movement speed on Feral frenzy increase, but who knows.
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@Peanits said:
I probably wouldn't buff him at all, personally. I've never felt like he's weak. Maybe a slightly shorter cooldown if you really want to split hairs, but I find him to be just fine as is.
I'd remove the reset meter stalk function on-hit. He'd be able to manage his stalk on survivors which in my opinion is difference between mediocre ghostface and a really good ghostface. It sucks to waste time building near-full stalk, then get spotted and all your work vanish upon hitting a survivor. Imagine if T3/T2 myers lost evil within every time he hits someone.
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You'd need around 30%-40% vault speed for that bamboozle version to effective. It would be funny if they buffed Freddy's fire up to 5% for fast vault meme build.
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@WaffleFalafel said:
The cooldown nerf is changing the big lunge from 2 seconds to 2.25 to prevent alternate travel methods (e.g. Legion lunging repeatedly) last I heard. Its not a big deal if you're using Demo as intended. At best its around 1 meter more for the survivor to travel.
It doesn't matter the type of change, It's the fact that it is drop in performance for the killer when he is beatable and can be outplayed. I'm not going to lie, but i was expecting his add-on to be similar like Billy where they improve his Charge time(For lunge), his charge speed MS(Billy Engraving add-on), and Lunge distance. Those are his relevant parameters that improve his Lunge attack which is only redeeming part of kit with lunge mind games. They instead went with Pig's archetype where most of add-on improve portals and majority of the add-on effects are not the ones that he wants. The key parameters for his portals are portal building time, Burrow time+Traversing time and time-taken to destroy the portals. Right now, his portals are way too slow for map pressure and without add-on, they're time-efficient to break and their reward for not being broken is pretty poor, It only gives surveillance perk on generators and totems. They just feel really clunky to use and somewhat of huge time sink for killer like Trappers traps with less reward. I'd go to explain why those parameters are most useful for the demogorgon, but it'd be pretty long explanation, though some of it can be explained through other killers add-on like Billy, Nurse, Hag, and Trapper who possess similar or exactly the same add-on types.
I don't want anyone to take my post as whining, but more of feedback/opinion about the new killer.
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@Fab said:
I don’t want to be rude, but if you’re applying pressure as a killer. Slugging, hooking, knowing when and when not to commit to a chase... gens will not go by fast.
What people don't get about killers is that their base statistics which are 32 TR,115% MS are not enough to win the game and their basic toolkit isn't as optimized as the survivors.What allows killers to win the game is their power. It allows them to cheat the game(through skill) and it determines how they will win the game.Clown is perfect example of 1vs1 oriented killer, He has no mobility, He has no game slowdown and his power only helps him in chases until he has to reload. Clown applies map pressure by ending chases quickly, but sadly, his power is too slow/weak to down people fast enough for the pace that the game goes. He's also hard to play since he doesn't get direct rewards for hitting bottles like Huntress and they're harder to hit against better players. If it were another killer like billy or myers, those killer are more likely to slug because they have instant down and they use slugging as their method of slowing the game down. your win condition as killer is always your power no matter how ######### or good it is.
Another common comment is "killers always want 4ks". Did you ever consider why that is the case? It's because killers can't really draw. They can only win or lose. There's no such thing as drawing as killer. You either killed everyone or you didn't and ranking system rewards killers based off that. Someone might say, "But wait a minute man, what if you got 2 kills and 2 escaped", that is still losing as killer and think about it this way, If there is two people alive and 2 generator left to complete, do you really think 2 survivors have any realistically chance to escape? They've already lost and the game folds into Hatch/Key.For survivor, It's based off your performance because it's team-game. Ranking up as a survivor(Winning) is on you, but escaping is team effort. If your team is #########, you may not escape, but you shouldn't lose/derank if you played well. If there 4 more of you, you would won.
There only few maps that have busted loops. Most of them are long loops that you can see the killer across the wall and there is no mind game to be played. God window loops are pretty annoying as killer, but you don't really have to chase those loops. If anything, god loop are good method to deter tunneling because you'll lose the game if you chase them and they're also pretty good at countering 3 generator strategies because you can purposely leave the generator next to the god loop and then use it to close out the game cleanly. With that being said, maps like Haddonfield,Thompson house, Blood lodge suck to play as killer because it's just a bunch of see-through no mind-game loops and Jungle gyms all over the place, but none of that was in play in that game. Changing map design won't really change much in grand scheme of things for extremely fast games that are more or less unwinnable for most killers. killers don't really need easier chases, they need powers/perks to control gatekeeper emblem that isn't luck based(Hex:Ruin).
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@Almo said:
We are very careful with anything that results in slower generator repair. We've found that when the Killer can permanently slow gen progress by a noticable amount, it results (rightfully) in a lot of Survivor frustration. Dying Light was problematic for two reasons. It encouraged tunnelling and killing the Obsession as soon as possible, and the gen-slowing was heavy and permanent afterward. From a risk/reward perspective, it functioned well, but from a "is the fun" perspective, it did not.
Of course the idea of being a Killer is to... kill the Survivors. But effects that make it positively unfun to play Survivor aren't good for the game; same for effects that make it unfun to play Killer. Hence the alteration to Decisive Strike.
The new Dying Light loses its tokens to prevent it becoming too oppressive.
We'll watch what happens in the data over the next few weeks to see if it needs some adjustments to its values.
I like dying light a lot, I'm just slightly concerned about free 33% healing speed increase+ignore debuff. It might hurt the killer more than help it. Other than that, I think new design of dying light is much superior then old design. The old design made dying light a "win" more perk because once you kill single player, the game is a lot easier so much so that action speed decrease is overkill. The new perk encourages you to not tunnel/slug and focuses more on winning chases which progressively will put the odds in your favor. It's more healthy design in my opinion, I just hope it doesn't hurt you more than help you.
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@yeet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671889#Comment_671889
they know it's a meaningless thing that's why they keep saying it, they want to shift the blame off of game balanced and onto killer players to keep their one sided gameplay, while ignoring the fact that very few killers lack the tools to apply any meaningful map pressure at all.
I wouldn't say that killers lack the tools to pressure the game. I'd identify killers into 3 categories which are Chaser killers(1vs1 killers), Hook momentum Killers(Often refer to as Stealth killers) and Stall killers. It's just that some of the powers of killers are too weak to fulfill a meaningful win condition. For example, Nurse, Spirit and Huntress are primarily Chase oriented killers build around the idea that they crush survivors in chases, and their entire map pressure come from landing hooks quickly. Clown is also a chase oriented killer, however he is too "slow" at getting hooks in comparison to other 3, hence he's not viable Chase killer at Red ranks because he doesn't down players fast enough. Billy is Hook momentum killer, He's all about getting single hook and snowballing instant downs in unsafe positions with mobility. Hag, Myers,Ghostface and Trapper are similar killers, however they all have pitfalls in their power that hurt them, such as flashlights for hag or Myers having really slow game-build up. Legion, Pig, Doctor and Freddy are examples of killers that are built around the idea of stalling the game so you run out of pallet/resources. They all force you to do actions that make you waste time such as mending, snapping out, reduced interaction speed or they have mechanics that force you interact with objects like Jigsaw Boxs or Freddy clocks.
It's not so black and white. Killer gameplay is a lot more complex and it has a lot more moving parts to it, so it's often not really clear for why a killer loses given match. There's a lot of variables in the game to consider such the map Tileset rng, the map, how good the survivor is etc. It's like 50/50 between a player messing up and killer not having the right tools to deal with every possible scenario. That's largely why Nurse and Spirit are most viable, because they can deal with all possible scenarios. It's not to say other killers can't get to their level, but they're pretty far apart from them. It's question of looking at everything from micro level or looking at the big picture and trying to find a grand solution. I think they said they've decided on doing map reworks which is micro solution, so it's going to take a pretty long time to weaken loops if that ever occurs, though survivors love long chases even though those result in very quick loss for killers. so there is that.
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A lot of people keep suggesting to nerf co-op generators, co-op generators is suppose to be encouraged. The issue is that killers need to land 3-5 hooks in the time that 3 generators are complete, however what is happening is that a killer is getting single hook out of 9 hook in the time it takes to do 3 generators. Look at it this way, The killer completed around 10% of his objective to win the match and survivors completed 60% of their objective. Demogorgon isn't terrible killer, but it's not nurse. Genrushing is normal in high ranks, but everyone knows buzz line "Just apply more map pressure" whatever that means.
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@Peanits said:
If you're being revealed and there are no white scratches showing you where, they're very close by. You'll still get killer instinct regardless, though.
I always look at the silver lining. You just found a guy that you wouldn't have seen otherwise. That's a quick way to start a chase, and since they're so close, you might even be able to get an easy hit on them.
I think underline problem is that ghostface risks trying "expose" people and the reward for exposing someone is denying the player the sprint burst, however if he fails to expose the player, then he has to wait 30 second cooldown, so at that point, he should just hit the player, but hitting the player resets stalk meter. So it just feels like a waste of time, and then once you've stalked someone, well if he's at a strong loop like jungle gyms, then there's no guaranteed you'll hit the survivor before expose timer run out. The counter argument is, you should use the power only for stealth and attempt to sneak up to people to 1 shot them, the problem is that ghostface will spend a lot of time taking non-optimal generator patrol routes just so he can try to fly under radar while there isn't any map pressure being put on survivors during this time. It's too much preparation for almost no reward. Other killers have instant downs and they don't work nearly as hard to achieve them as he does. There are perks that help you find survivors better than what his killer instinct power gives him. For killers such as these, their entire gimmick relies on out positioning survivors such that they hit people before they get to a loop and his power fails to achieve this goal.
As for the comment regarding killers not needing powers to hit people, When there are maps like Blood lodge or Maps that contain very strong window loops, I'd say that pretty much all killers need some type of mind-game/outplay mechanic against good survivors because your pretty much not going to hit them unless they get greedy and purposely don't drop pallet. Too many loops are too safe on majority of the maps for killers to not have a chase empowering mechanic. For the speed at which the game goes, Attempting to break a majority of safe pallets will result in killer losing against decent survivors.
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@BlackMercury said:
I love how everyone brings up ghostface as evidence that bhvr nerfs everything, when the changes only made him easier to face at low ranks and had almost no impact at rank 1, which is apparently the only rank that matters.
no, critical changes were weakening his add-on that help you stalk and making him easier to reveal. He's like worse leatherface at getting instant downs. He has so many other flaws that make terrible which include the inability to gap-close targets that stalked, 0 map pressure, 0 chase potential. That guy needs some help at red ranks. A good starting buff would be to make it so that hitting survivors doesn't reset stalk meter, but who knows, that guy is getting looped no matter what. He's badly designed.
BVHR have habit of weakening killers, so my feeling is that this killer is going to new Billy where he can capitalize on survivors mistakes better than other killers, but he can be looped and experienced players will be able to beat him but lower rank players will whine similarly to Billy Chainsaw. That's my prediction.