Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Clogwench
Overcharge is a skillcheck that all survivors have mastered from Decisive strike and no red rank survivor fails it. PGTW regress generator by 20 seconds. Survivors can do generators IN 20 seconds if they really want to. Just get 4 engineer box's and brand new parts and you can break the game. Surveillance and discordance are information perks, they don't slow the game down. Thrilling Tremors is indirectly an information perk, There's no point in blocking a generator that isn't being worked on, you already indirectly have perk active without having the perk, It just says which one is being worked on I.E information perk. Red rank killers experience bronze or no emblem on gatekeeper at least once every 10 games. Hex:Ruin can be disabled. None of your points address generator rushing or game balance at the highest level in the game.
Freddy is hot garbage in his current state and He's about to become worse. The teleport is so telegraphed to the point that grandma can react to it. When you get traped by trapper, your reward is instant down, When hag teleports to a trap, she can damage a health state with tp. Freddy isn't even guarantee a hit and the reward doesn't look good even if it works not to mention all the other nerfs in the rework. Another nonviable killer at red ranks. At this point, you might as well body blocker hag over Freddy.
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I like facing doctor, though nobody plays him at red ranks and if they do, they lose almost all the time. It's fun when you loop him for 5 generators.you never said what's annoying/unfun about him, but his power is largely very useless even with pink add-on.
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@scorpio said:
Plague was so good in the PTB. I think the idea someone had above where a survivor being broken from the Vile Purge for X amount of time should lead to one of the fountains becoming corrupt. That gives the survivor however many seconds to get the benefit of the cleanse before one of the fountains becomes corrupt, and if they are too slow then they either a) have to stay broken or b) cause another fountain to become corrupt. That sounds like a brilliant fix to me even without putting her speed while holding a charge back to what it was in the PTB.
Her pink add-on Iridescent seal is suppose to give her 5 corruptions, however developers decided to give it 2 extremely bad drawbacks that make it unusable. The reason no one cleanses is because there isn't good incentive to cleanse. Denying anti-loop tool for free is more important than gaining health sate. If they give her movement speed back for vile purge and worship mode back, from PTB, then she'd be viable killer, but looks like developers don't want that i guess.
Clown isn't as bad as people say he is. He is very add-on reliant though. Flask of Bleach+Ether 15 Vol% are by far his strongest add-on excluding Pinky finger. Like most killers, they gave him really bad base stats, Like bottles don't slow you enough without an add-on, Don't last long enough and you have very few to use. He has no trouble downing people, however the problem is that he gets gen rushed because he has no generator pressure or stalling mechanics in red ranks. One of the general problems that they have in balancing killers is that they don't give them good base parameter on their power and rely too much on add-on to fix their weak power. They also fail to identify what players want improved in their power, so most of the time, 90% of the killers add-on have no impact. Add-on are suppose to be added bonus and generally, they craft a particular build or setup. So suppose you identified that reload speed,bottle count, Hindered severity, slow duration are most desired effects for the killer then you can just increment the values gradually ranging from weak to strong. This should level of redesign should apply to all killers and survivor items.The pink add-on should always be most "broken" version of a killer arsenal that can't be used every game. Redhead's Pinky finger is decently potent, but Tatto's middle finger is largely pointless. It would be better if Tatto finger completely blinded survivors like a flashlight for 2 seconds and applied exhaustion, then maybe that would be worth pink add-on to use. That's my 2 cents on the topic.
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@Redd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/540549#Comment_540549
Doctor already moves 110 in treatment.
No, he moves at 70% speed when charging shock. I think he just needs faster shock channeling speed, instead of slower channeling speed with range add-on's.. He's not talked about much because he's like second worst to Freddy for winning.
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Well developers still think that the way to fix killers is to add perks in the game to band aid fix the balance. i.e Hex ruin to fix generators and Enduring+Spirit fury to fix loops. Perks were never answer, nor was the answer to nerf survivor loops. killers don't really have enough time to win at red ranks which is one imbalance problem. the other problem is that killer powers need the ability to either outplay people at loops(with their power) like huntress hatchets or they need the ability to catch people out of position, but they keep weakening killers, so it isn't really helping red ranks or game health in general.
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myers is stronger then ghostface in every possible way. He has better add-ons, better base statistics(Vaulting,Lunging,TR), better snowball potential,less counter-play, Ghostface excels at nothing. you can hide your red glow by walking backwards and have same mind-game potential as ghost face on barricade loops. Myers technically has add-on's that give aura reading when stalking, but nobody uses them. because they're ass. good bait post.
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I think everyone understand it. It's 4 stonecold nerfs and 1 really pointless irrelevant buff that no one cares about. I think he's a killer that will be bullied a lot in the game. Some of changes make little sense, for example Myers has similar add-on that speed up stalking, and when he levels evil within 3, he gains lunge range, faster vaulting and exposed on everyone, not just one person. A pallet stun is equal 2 seconds and if you do math, you'll always be able to break him out of stalk(1.8). Myers doesn't get broken out of evil within 3 on a stun, so why should he? Breaking him out of stealth is easy as long as he has no objects to hide, however if he's hiding, he's not moving which means your gaining distance to get to a loop.
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@Peanits said:
I'm not sure where the detection range bit is coming from, but that is not changing. The detection area is something completely different. This is the part of the screen that Ghost Face needs to be within for the reveal to begin (after the buffer, of course). This is being increased by about 8% (4% in either direction). It won't make him easier to reveal, but it will make it a little easier to keep him within that zone while being chased.
I don't want to be bias or anything, but I think those changes will really make ghost face suffer. Personally, I've had no trouble breaking him out stealth. I know it's early days for ghost face, but I think survivors will become a lot better playing against him over time and he will be a very gimmick killer in 1 month time that will struggle to get any use out of his power in my opinion.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/521809#Comment_521809
There's a lot of confusion here, which is not surprising since nobody has seen or tried the new Freddy yet, so I'll clarify a couple things.
1) It's not a matter of it being too hard. Anyone can fail a skill check to wake. One of the issues hear is that it's confusing to new players. Failing a skill check to wake up isn't intuitive to a newer player and they might not figure that out for a long time. Having a dedicated "wake up" object offers an intuitive alternative.
This does not make it easier to wake up. Instead of just getting on the nearest generator and mashing their skill check button until one pops up, they'll instead have to spend time going to the "wake up" object and then more time interacting with it. It's a more consistent way, but it's not an easy way to wake up by any means.
To top that off, sleep is now passive. Survivors will be constantly falling asleep without Freddy needing to tag them. It's now significantly easier to put survivors to sleep in the first place.
2) Being asleep has various downsides, as we've mentioned. First and foremost, dream traps will come into play while you're asleep. Beyond that, the terror radius is replaced with the lullaby, making it very difficult to pinpoint where Freddy is. There are also add-ons that will affect people who are asleep- we've already mentioned that some will slow down action speeds much like the current version of Freddy. I can't reveal anything new right now, but there are definitely downsides.
Jumping to conclusions without ever playing him-- let alone seeing him-- isn't going to do anyone any favours. Even in the OP only, there's some misinformation. Dream traps do not need to be placed in advance, they can be placed during a chase. It's best we all wait until we get our hands on it before we make any decisions. Until then, it's purely speculation.
I think your misunderstand what the op is saying. Imagine this, If you complete 3 generators on left side of a map and all the remaining generators are on right side, a survivor who is put to sleep can't wake up without a teammate. By adding objects, you are improving accessibility for a survivor to wake up. that is in fact the nerf.
For being licensed killer, Freddy is extremely famous so i doubt that new players are clueless about him power. He's also in DBD famous for being F-tier on every tier list in existences. But even if a new player had no clue about what sleep does, the player should take their loss as learning experience like with every killer power. Suppose Pig puts a reverse trap on you and you walk out of exit with it armed, when you die, you should reflect to see why did that happen and perhaps, you should as a new player considering reading up on the killers power. so this entire new player argument seems like a very flawed. Don't take this as "git good" but more of be an informed player.
On the final point, I don't think a change with terror radius is enough of discouragement for a player to wake up. terror radius is more of an alarm cloak, as long as you hear it. it doesn't matter what it sounds like but the survivor is alert. The fact that you will mostly likely need purple or pink add-on for sleep to do anything is already very concerning for the killer and as op has said, generator teleport seems very limited as described in the stream. He's losing aura reading and free stalling potential in this rework, so those fake pallets, traps and generator teleport better be worth it but very unlikely.
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I mean entire post complained about map design, survivor perks and generator being completed. Map design and loops have been this way for at least 2 years+ and they were even worse than before. Also a recent change to farm maps was boarding up cold-farm jungle gyms, so your information is outdated, inaccurate and false. Survivor perks vs killer perk balance hasn't changed much. Developers simply do not understand that 1 killer perk has to equal 4 survivor perks and none of them equal that besides Hex:ruin(?). Gen rushing is a big problem in red ranks, but that's largely because killers have no tools to stall generators. You can have Iridescent in chaser, Iridescent in devious(apply pressure) and still have bronze or no medal for stalling generators. I mean, kicking generators is a joke in regards to regression a generator, the perks they release to stall the game are horrifically bad and hitting a survivor repetitively so that they spam healing enough to stall the game out is extremely difficult for when players are good at the game(due to looping) unless your playing a strong killer.
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I think that removing strong loops for survivor will cause more harm than good. It feels like it will skill-drain survivor because their tools for expressing skill will be weakened.
Personally, I think killer balance at high ranks comes from a killer's special power to be able to outplay a survivor. Like for example, you can loop a huntress, but if you throw down pallet or vault at incorrect times, you can still hit a survivor and perform a an anti-loop mechanic. If each of killers had unique mechanics to outplay loops, survivors could still retain strong loops and express skill in surviving chases. I think a lot of killers have potential, however they keep getting weakened. Like for example, Spirit has potential to outplay a survivor with her phase walk mind-game, but that doesn't work if you can't hear a survivor to track them in phase walk. Doctor has potential to outplay a survivor at a loop, but his shock will either have poor range or long cast time on his shock. Plague has potential with puke, however the loss of threat in normal form weakens her ability to apply pressure on the map, so nobody cleanses so therefore you never get your anti-loop skill. Wraith has potential with speed boost after uncloak, but long uncloak time puts distance between survivor and killer canceling out the bonus. Myser has potential with longer lunge range in tier 3, but he takes a long time to get his evil within without add-on. Legion used to have anti-loop with his deep wound and vaulting mechanics but those got removed for downing. Trapper has potential with his traps, but the setup time is less then ideal. Pig has potential with her dash attack, but she has to crouch and she makes a noise every time she attempts it with a cast time.
I think a lot of killers have potential to be good in red ranks, but they lack either parameters to be effective, so they default to being m1 killers and just being M1 killer by default isn't good enough to beat players who are good at looping. It's really no surprise to why people say Nurse and Billy are only viable killers at red ranks. Billy can spam his chainsaw and optimizes chase times if your consistent with it and nurse can spam blinks which allow her to outplay survivors and nullify loops. so it is fair to say that killers who have strong powers are required at red ranks or they struggle.
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The only thing i want for her is removal of slowdown when charging, holding and releasing vile purge. I don\t care if it's add-on or just base kit. Speaking of add-on, does anyone use Iridescent Seal? I just don't understand what went through developers heads when they developed an pink add-on that decreases duration and movement speed for a minor benefit of getting corrupt purge. I'd seriously want to ask them why they think 2 demerits for one positive is a good trade for add-on.
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I think this will go on live servers. If you wonder why I think that. I would like examine last 3 killers and PTB cycles. Spirit was originally pretty bad, then they buffed her, she became good for a while, and then people complained, so for like 1 month or more, we've had no sounds as killer crippling spirit's ability. Next up, Legion came along. Everyone said he was bad, then people developed some strategies to make him viable. So the developers went like, well let's weaken everything about him. Next up, Plague went on PTB, a single streamer figured out how to play her, when she went live, instantly nerfed.
So here we are again. Everyone complaining about Ghostface. In developer anniversary from few days ago, they said he would move at full movement speed during crouch. 2 days later, We get the ptb, and what do you know? He doesn't move at full speed so we don't even get to test stuff. What does this tell us? All of these problems regarding Ghostface were intended to happen. The overly loud killer, loss of your power constantly, a sound byte for entering your power. It just seems all intended. Maybe they even believed that this is genuinely what they believe a killer's power level should be. It's all really hilarious, because on the stream, they were saying on how the killer is suppose to make us scared as survivors, paranoid and create jump-scare experiences.
Just my opinion. I think this patch was intended to buff survivors with the buff to DS(Enduring), MoM, Unbreakable etc. and I just think that survivors fun is greatly prioritized over killers. so I think it's fair argument to say that not much will change for Ghostface and this is basically next live update apart from maybe some glitches fixs.
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@NoShinyPony said:
@Tsulan The team also has to do 2 new maps per year.
But I totally get you. It would be nice if they could do something about the most unbalanced windows as well. I simply wouldn't count on it happening.
Badham has been announced. The most urgent map to fix is probably Haddonfield and I think it has good chances of getting chosen. But that would also mean no changes to a lot of other maps like the Disturbed Ward for the next year... arhhh...
They're removing infinity loops in general and I hope they rework totem spots, like the ones next to open area with generator nearby or shack totem.
Evidence: https://youtu.be/JyWcUp8RcSE?t=5321
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@NoShinyPony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/500918#Comment_500918
@Ihatelife Not at all. There will be 2 map reworks in year 4. The first one is going to be Badham.
They said they're reworking 2 maps, which will change layout for how the map looks and plays, but all infinity vault loop windows are getting removed apparently. I'd say it's mildly dangerous because you won't have anywhere to hide should the game extent past a certain point but I guess we'll have to see how many money loops will be added to compensate it.
Evidence: https://youtu.be/JyWcUp8RcSE?t=5320
I just hope they rework totem spots, like whose idea was it to put totems in front of generators or totems in like obvious iconic buildings like Shack. Over 9000 IQ thinking process.
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The second perk seems like a perk for save the best for last, because it switch obsession allowing to apply pressure on all survivors even if you have a perk that says "don't hit this survivor". It could also be good with play with your food. The reduce terror radius during chase might have some anti-synergy though with other perks and I'm not sure why someone would want to reduce their terror radius in a chase.
The third perk is strong for basement builds, typically those builds run agitation+Iron grasp, so you can legit block the generators for pretty long time if your goal is to just hook people in basement.
Eyes and Ears is seems like a tracking perk, kind of like bloodhound or Stridor where it gives you information when following someone trail or some attempted mind game, however training wheel perks such as these are often considered useless because more experienced players do not need empowered visual aids for basic gameplay mechanics.
In conclusion, the perks aren't useless, but they're pretty situational and niche.
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These days, you can give up BVHR on making viable killers. They're mostly just artwork after artwork for both sides. The only thing you can hope for is that their new killer/survivor has decent perks that are worth using on both sides. One thing I hope they end up adding is a perk that punishes a survivor for using Obsession perk. Like for example, If you are obsession, you get exposed status effect for the entire game or something, Then maybe survivors will think twice when using perks such as Decisive strike Or Meddle of man if they had some actual risk attached to them.
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most people know she's horrible at base. The essential reason to why she underperform is time. In PTB, she was pretty good, but some people thought she would be Nurse-Tier or something and she got nerfed on Vile Purge movement speed which completely messed her up. It gave her a very long cast time for Vile Purge, a huge recovery to cancel it and disabled her ability to have optimized chase times because of how much distance a survivor gets for each Vile Purge charge therefore crippling her almost completely. Among other issues, Her power effectiveness and efficiency is greatly depended on map and positioning of fountains and than there's fact that she's only killer whose power grants the ability to instant heal survivors(Demerit).
There are two builds that allow to purposely bypass all these weaknesses and drawbacks for her. Vile Emetic(Purple add-on)+ Infected Emetic(Green) allows you to almost instantly break a survivor and it essentially gives you tier 3 evil within mysers at the start of the game. Put BBQ+Hex:Ruin+Play With Your food and Monitor&Abuse and you will gain a very efficient killer that only spends 1 token per instant down with low terror radius to easily instant down survivors out of position. The other build revolves around Black Incense(Pink)+Worship tablet(Purple) with split pressure gameplay. Since Worship Tablet increases movement speed, it allows you to play PTB Plague since the increase in movement speed and decrease of movement speed for holding Corrupt Purge end up canceling out. The only challenge is, you need to be able to find survivors once you obtain corrupt purge and you need to provide incentive for survivors to cleanse. Black Incense will give you information if the survivors do not cleanse and if you are able to get hook presence, you can often scare the survivors into cleansing. You can also attempt to use thanatophobia to provide further incentive to cleanse, then you just use your enhancement movement speed Corrupt purge to anti-loop and close out the game.
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Streetwise is one of those perks that isn't that great in solo, but ends up being a problem in SWF because it allows SWF to use Toolboxs and Flashlights excessively. It also makes green keys with add-on that allows you to see the killer more obnoxious, by giving them Object of Obsession with no drawbacks.
Most of the perks on survival list "buffs" will not change their position. For example No Mither is a perk that gives you Iron will and Unlimited version of Unbreakable, however it takes away a health state from you which isn't worth it and this is just one example. Left behind was perk designed to allow you to complete a generator when the rule of requiring 3 generator to be complete for the hatch to spawn. This condition no longer exists and therefore ruined the purpose of the perk with new End game collapse.
You could fix some of these perks, for example I think left behind should give you aura reading of the hatch spawn if you are last person alive. The repair speed and Action speed are simply useless right now. No Mither would be pretty good perk if they removed broken state, sound reduction and Unlimited Unbreakable, however kept the ability where your survivor does not bleed, so it would be good counter to Bloodhound. Another solution for No Mither would be to give the survivor the ability to have deep wound timer for getting hit for duration of 10 seconds so you aren't one shot.
As for the killer side. Aura-oriented perks have one major problem and that is, they a build in Spine-Chill for the survivor. The other issue behind them is that most maps are too big compared to terror radius of the killer, so the killers aren't able to get a good benefit out of the perks)Includes Distressing). They'd be better if they release more smaller maps the game and Lery or if they were much bigger in radius so that killers could get more benefit.
As for the rest of killer perks, I'll comment what i'd like to see for following perks:
- Unrelenting The Lunge distance of a killers attacks Increases by 0.5/1.0/1.5 meters
- Beast of Prey Allows you to earn a token every time you hook a survivor, Your Red Stain grows dimmer with each token(Max 3). Gain 30/40/50 % more Bloodpoints for actions in the Hunter Category.
- Insidious you reduce your Terror Radius to 0 meters after gaining Bloodlust Tier I and stays hidden until you lose Bloodlust.
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@GodDamn_Angela said:
Self Care is still the most used perk at all levels.
I don't agree with it and think its a waste of time but many people are still trying to keep the self healing meta going.
Maybe because healing yourself grants you the best exhaustion perk in the entire game, but who knows, maybe it does nothing.
This is just educated guess, but I think healing is only a problem between ranks 15-20 because at those ranks, killers can hit survivors in less time than a survivor can heal themselves because their chaser emblems are poor. At higher ranks, players more experienced with tile set, so when they have jungle gym or good pallet, they can waste a lot more time, which in turn accelerates games as players get hit less and do generators faster because they have less of need to heal themselves. So I would say their healing change only hurt lower ranks and did essentially nothing for better players.
If you wonder why a lot of killer players use Nurse calling+Sloppy, It's because it indirectly gives you machine gun build by making your hits on survivor mean more, since It's harder to reverse healing states and if you don't heal, you are essentially accepting to play No Mither build for the rest of the match which in my opinion is very risky and not a good strategy plan.
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@Peanits said:
You said yourself that the issue with the old Legion is that they had no counterplay. To play Devil's Advocate, what one or two nerfs alone would have fixed that? The terror radius deep wound change covers moonwalking, but what about someone who only repeatedly uses frenzy to down a survivor? Since there is no counterplay there as well, how do you suggest that should have been fixed? With those two changes in mind, would the Legion be good, or would they be weak?
For what it's worth, I've been watching plenty of people playing the Legion since the update and they've been very successful. The less fun aspects may be gone, but in terms of overall power, the Legion does not appear to have taken much of a hit (if any, they actually seem stronger).
I don't think Legion is bad or garbage. I would say Legion rework is one dimensional. There's only one way to really play him now. You grab the green Stolen Sketch Book with either Susie's Mix Tape or Iridescent Button and you stab all 4 people in single frenzy then you proceed to down them with normal M1 115 ms. If the survivors heal, Feral frenzy all of them again, Rince and repeat until everyone dies. If they don't heal and just do generators while successfully using every pallet on the map, too bad for you i guess.
When compared to to other killers, Other killers can have slight change in their play style based on what add-on they use, and they change their purpose of their power. For example, Wraith has Shadow Dance add-on's, Silent belle, Fast uncloak, All seeing orb, Myser has Mirrors,Unlimited Evil within, Tombstone. Pig can change her traps for stalling the game on boxs or Amanda Letter. When you look at Legion's play style variety, what does he have? Oh, that's right, none. The play style of speed+duration from previous patch was possible before rework. Fatique add-on got nerfed. The power takes forever recharge making Tape and Cold studies pointless because duration increased recharge timer. The Legion pins give him wrong status effects and don't really help him at all.
For the record, The plague nerf that reduces her movement speed when holding vomit achieved same result. In PTB, you could play in any style you wanted. When she got on to live servers, She's forced to use Vile effectiveness add-on or Worship Tablet+Black Incense with assumption that, If the survivors don't cleanse, you get map-hack and if they do, you get normal movement speed holding corrupt purge and Vile effectiveness for expose-type killer game-play. That's why your statistics on Plague kill-rate are so poor on plague. So it's not first time that you've weakened a killer and forced one-dimensional play on them.
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@CallMeSpidey said:
Jesus Christ, what's with the "If this killer gets nerfed, why can't this one."
Nurse got nerfed plenty of times already.
They reduced her blinks to 2.
You can't pick up, open lockers, or break pallets during fatigue anymore.
They reduced her range.
They reduced her walking speed.
She had her nerfs, why do people turn on the Nurse when a killer is getting a rework done.
It's as stupid as "Well, if you nerf NOED nerf Adrenaline" talk.
It's because none of those nerfs never mattered for Nurse. The reason why Nurse is strong is because of her ability to to teleport through objects and break all forms of looping. So if you wanted to balance Nurse with other Killers, you'd make her unable to teleport through objects and subject her to the main counter-play of all killers which is looping with balancing tweaks(Like Legion rework).
Most players who play both sides will agree that Nurse and to lesser extent, Hilliby are what all killers should be in first place. So seeing a lot of nurse usually just means that everything else isn't worth playing or is too weak. The sounds cues are pretty messed up for Killer at the moment so It's kind of hard to play Nurse/Spirit right now. Very unlikely they would ever nerf Nurse because she isn't accessible new players, so very few would ever find her a problem unlike Legion who in all honestly was too accessible of a killer.
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The reason it's not baseline is because shadow born buffs flashlights. The very popular Unrelenting rework suggestion regarding Lunge range increase though is good, as current one is only useful vs dead hard.
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Pretty soon, I think they should code AI to play Killers because no one wants to play Killers at rank 1 besides Nurse for PC and Billy for Console.
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@Peanits said:
To play Devil's Advocate here, say the survivors power the last generator and I have one guy slugged and I'm chasing a second. I down the second guy, open a gate to start the collapse, hook my slug, hook the second guy. Now the remaining survivors have about 60 seconds (slowed) to save the people on the hooks and leave.
Not too bad, right?
Now let's throw bloodwarden into the mix. The gates are blocked for 60 seconds. Unless the survviors are super smart and leave them on the hook while bloodwarden expires, they're not going to be able to escape.
Or even a more likely scenario, you throw NOED into the mix and down someone as they go for a save. You hook them and that knocks off that last minute. Everyone's dead.
It's a neat idea, but it would be a little silly in practice.
The trailer said that downing a survivor or hooking them halts/slowdown the timer, so i doubt any of those situations presented would do anything. Noed and Blood warden are counter-productive to the timer. 3 minute timer is too long and I think it will almost never expire before everyone escapes. 2 minutes might be a better compromise in my opinion.
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Will any of legions newly modified add-on allow him to apply status effects to survivors affected by deep wound status such as Blind, Mangled,Hemorrhage, Hindered or Exhausted, Similar to Huntress add-on on Hatchets?
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@not_Queen said:
No numbers were released with this communication. Just the general changes.
You will all be able to test the Legion Update in the upcoming PTB.
We are currently gathering all your questions and we'll try to answer them either later this week in an addition to the original post or next week during a livestream.
Keep the feedback coming in :)
Would be too strong if Legion, for every survivor he hits, the timer get reduced by 25%, so if he hits all 4 survivors single frenzy, the 4th survivor gets instant downed? The deep wound timer doesn't feel like it will impact in his gameplay after the change.
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I like the missed attack change. all killers get punished for missing their attacks, except legion, that never made any sense and never felt fair for the survivor. You could make 5 bad swings and still get hit by legion. I like the part where you can't see bloodmarks during feral frenzy because it felt unfair for survivor to be unable to "escape" from legion since it's like impossible to break LOS because your legit faster than they are.
I don't like the other changes. Terror radius sounds good on paper, because you can see survivors further in your power, but whats the point if you can't catch up to hit them in first place. I don't like the change that makes it so you can't use your power if your power gauge isn't full, that reduces his skill-cap as he can't optimize his power efficiency if he sees other survivors that are grouped as he chases another person.
The inability to hit survivors to further reduce deep wound timer and moonwalk(look at the floor while not in the chase) is mixed opinion. in one way, survivors find that mechanic unfair because gives him 100% certainty to down a survivor, in another way, it's gives his pallet vaulting meaning and gives him a anti-loop. I think that this mechanic is main reason why most survivors disconnect against legion, but no killer really likes fighting god loops because they feel so helpless against them, so it's mixed opinion for whether any killer should options to combat them. That's why people play Nurse, Billy and Spirit and huntress to some degree, so they can speed up downing speed and weaken looping in general.
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Yeah, Legion is new F-tier. Freddy is getting rework so assuming that, he's going to out of F tier and hopefully find a home somewhere better. The fact that Legion can't use his power until its fully charged means that he can't injure survivors if he gets bodyblocked so that's bad especially for when gates are powered. The lower duration and speed means he will have harder time injuring more than one survivor in frenzy. The higher terror radius means that survivors will have easier time noticing him, allowing them to get a larger distance before he can even catch up to them with slower frenzy. He can't hit same survivor twice, so he has no guaranteed downs anymore, which means he lost his ability to anti-loop survivors as vaulting pallets and windows faster is pointless, and he can't moonwalk survivors so the whole point of having a timer has lost all relevant purpose.
The only buff he got to compensate all those nerfs is that he moves at 115% movement speed. so now, every killer is just going to run cold dirt+susie mixtape(fatique reducation add-on's), they'll go in into frenzy, hit you, run after you, let go of their power, and just than just hit you again after the fatique runs out. That's how legion is going to be played next patch.
My opinion is that Legion lost his defined identity which was to act like a survivor and what made Legion feel like a survivor is the fact he could vault pallets and windows quickly, but now, all of that is pointless because it doesn't lead into anything rewarding for him. I think if Legion doesn't get a some rework on his add-on's like blocking pallet vaulting after he vaults or something useful that makes his power feel impactful, He's going feel like M1 killer with no special power. He might better off than before, but he'll be boring to play.
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Hex: Devour hope is better at 5 stacks than Lullaby, hence why no one uses Lullaby, It' one of those perks that got powercreeped, Good rework to make Lullaby more competitive, but good luck getting them to rework killer perks. Huntress perks in general could use some love, like what's the point of Beast of prey and Territorial Imperative anyway.
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I think developers expect you to use his trapper bag add-on. to get head start on picking them up. Picking them up isn't too bad at the start. people constantly disabling them regardless where you place them especially vs SWF. Rough game for you.
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I think the better option is to make his Iridescent Stone add-on a standard mechanic in his kit. The main issue that I have with trapper is he gives up generator patrol pressure and potential early game chases for a pure chance to get an instant down. The irony is, There's only one of you, and 4 survivors, so even if you manage to setup a trapped area, the survivors can ignore that area or they can disable traps as another person is getting chased.
The survivor squad is able muti-task because they are 4 players, but the trapper is overwhelmed with too many burdens. That add-on, The Iridescent Stone removes some of the burden of having to walk back, pick up the trap and set it. He becomes pretty good killer with it, but without it, the game just goes too fast for him to make an impact.
Why rely on the chance that a survivor goes in a trap to Instant down when you can play a killer who directly instant downs them at their will, I.E Billy, Myser, Leatherface.
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@Peanits said:
The numbers would probably have to be tweaked there, 50 meters is the better part of an entire map. It could definitely work that way, although you would lose any potential to combine it with perks like distressing or add-ons like the doctor's which increase your terror radius.
Can you buff Dark Devotion, 20 seconds of no terror is not enough time to find another survivor and sneak up on someone. Besides Monitor&Abuse & Tinkerer, There aren't many ways for a killer to modify their terror radius. 20 seconds is too short to take advantage of the effect. If it was like 40 second, Maybe you'd be able to get a sneak attack on someone, but as it is right now, I doubt anyone can use the perk effectively.
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That's not type of changes people want to see on killers in term of buffs. What they want to see is more skill oriented buffs that make "bad killers" become good killers through time and practice.
So for example, it is very well known that Doctor and Freddy are worst killers in dead by daylight,
If for example, skill checks didn't wake people up during Freddy's power, he could capitalize multiple survivors and everyone would have to find another player to wake them up. He might then not be a total laughing stock of the game but he won't be nurse-level either.
Doctor is another meme killer that a lot of low rank players tends to hate because of skill-checks, but in higher level of play, most doctors value his shocks as predicted reads for when a survival will vault/use a pallet, The issue of course is that Treatment lowers his movement speed during chases and the time required to switch modes+shock time and poor range cripple his ability to anti-loop, so if they reduce his switch mode cast time and removed drawback of his range add-on's, doctor could effectively outplay survivors instead of being an active sonar for survivors.
these are just some examples for how they could improve bad killers into some average killers that probably hold their own.
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Overwatch actually tried this ranking system(your proprosed ranking system) and it failed miserably, because players looked to earn the most "points" in the hidden rank system rather than play the game properly.
What the game assumes is that if one party is dominating a match, the opposing party is suffering because each of emblems go hand in hand to winning a match. I won't elaborate this in 3 other paragraphs for why this is, but it should be very obvious. With higher point requirements, Unless intentional, It is very unlikely that both parties will maintain their rank. That was the problem in old system, both parties could maintain black pips, therefore people would just stay stuck at rank 1 on both sides for entire season until reset.
So, Why is it possible for killers to be rank 1 in this system but not for survivors(average rank is 5) you may ask? It's because survivors are competing against their other teammates to get points(in the healing and objective category) and survivors rely on teammates while killer rely on no one and they aren't competing against anyone in the game itself. Basically, Killer can get all their points by fulfilling their objectives, but survivors have limited amount of objective category, A limited healing category, Boldness and Survival. There's also the problem of, if a killer dc, your deranking because apparently your playing "bad".
I think the killer ranking is ok, but survivor ranking needs adjustment. I think the two adjustment they need to do for survivor is make escaping an absolute single pip and only use emblems for survivor if a survivor "died" in the trial to black pip. A killer dcing should not make the survivor derank, The way the survivor emblems are right now, they're too commutative towards other survivors for the number of points required to pip(at red rank). Because there are are no survivors at red rank, the matchmaking is completely bonkers now.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/381481#Comment_381481
What did they nerf she seems the same to me from the ptb
They reduced her movement speed from 115% to 120% and when you "charging mode", your movement speed slows down to 110%.
The strategy in PTB was to run Ruin,Play with your food,Monitor and BBQ with Vile effectiveness and worship tablet. You'd use lower terror radius to sneak up on people, break them, 1 hit them, than hook them. Use BBQ to find your Obsession, Now you can gain movement speed and 1-hit people with single swing. When enough fountains are corrupted, you could begin taking fountains powers and you'd have huge movement speed bonus with ranged attack creating powerful anti-loop tool.
The nerf in charge mode makes it so that you have to run charge-speed add-on for Vile and Corrupt otherwise you can't use your power correctly. The movement speed nerf weakened her anti-loop tool making full heal a benefit to survivors. She's like a new Freddy now.
The DLC isn't worth it, "oh but wait, what about that head-on perk", The head-on perk is easily countered by a killer. If you suspect someone is in a locker, you'll approach locker, If they attempt to use the perk, you press M1, hit them as survivor is in animation of jumping out of the locker and take the stun(but you'd be in recover swing animation anyway) and follow scratch marks and if they don't use it, they get instant downed. Solidarity is poor replacement for Self-care. I don't know why they bother releasing conditional perks like Poised as it would be better if they released a perk that you press a button and scratch marks disappear for 5 seconds rather than putting silly conditions for such effect.
The killer perks aren't much better either. Corruption Intervention does not prevent gen rushing, what it does is funnel survivors in the middle of the map, so it's tracking perk for 25% of the match duration, why would anyone run a tracking perk for a quarter of the match. Dark devotion has too little duration for you to find a survivor with 0 terror radius and Infectious fright was semi-nerfed in ptb as it used to show aura of survivors for 5 seconds instead of notification.
in my opinion, Bad killer, Bad survivor perks and Bad killer perks. Buy only if you want Survivor's Jane skin. It's probably worst update to date.
Edit:Typo.
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@Blueberry said:
Inb4 it gets made into another perk...LOL ( please don't)
That said, sounds like a good idea for the base game. We don't need punishments for camping, we need incentives as he said. It's currently the most worthwhile to camp people and that's what we need to change.
It's already a perk, it's called Thanotophobia. When you hook someone, the person on hook is injured, therefore decreasing interaction speed, and when the person dies, you lose the ability to get stacks to slow the game down which what his 10% debuff in the video.
Sadly the change does not discourage killers for Tunneling and Camping. The reason why killers Tunnel is because every survivor holds a % of interaction power that killers seek to remove to slow the game down and ultimately win the game. Collectively, a survivor team holds 400% interaction power. If a killer Eliminates a single survivor, He decreases the game speed by 100% or 1/4. That's 25% slower game than previously and the objective of the game is to kill all 4 survivors, so the faster you can get them to 1 hook, the better your game with killer will be as you will have more time on the clock to hunt other survivors. From analytical stand point, Tunneling is essentially the most efficient mechanism for killer to win a game in shortest possible time frame. Ironically, the game strategy flips on last two people alive, since hatch mechanic requires the killer to Slug in order to kill last 2 survivors which might explain why some killer mains hate trap door mechanic.
As for camping, Most of the time, Killers camp because the exit gates are open and the game is over. The other reason for camping is protecting a hook because they think a survivor is nearby, since opportunity cost of staying at a hook can sometimes be lower than the amount of generators done by the survivors again going back to slowing the game down.
The idea that a killer is going to hook everyone at an equal rate is illogical way for a killer to win a game. It's like saying survivors should limited their repairs to 1 person for the killer to have a longer game.
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@BringBackOldBT said:
Was also counterable with clown hag trapper nurse spirit, but definitly not counterable guys. People just parrot whatever their streamers say, you can watch truetalent get 4Ks consistently and still moan about DS and all his little rank 12 viewers are convinced already. You can see it when a killer spams ultra-rare addons and still thinks he's more respectable than someone using DS, the victim-mentality is real.
The worst part is they punish survivors in an effort to stop the braindead game-killing "strategies" that killers use rather than punishing killers for basically not even playing a game/needing skill. Survivors loop stuff? Here have a passive that makes you faster, in fact be faster in general and then get your passive. Killers camp and tunnel? Here use 2 ######### wastes of perks that are easily countered, oh and that top-tier perk you had? Yeah that's gotta go.. BHVR balancing right there.
Yeah, Most people agree that DS change was solely changed because of Tr3Talent. He's not done weakening survivors either, He still complains about Farm maps railing for how you can see through them and Balance Landing loops. He's also good at complaining about NOED and Legion, Mori's, Essentially anything that makes him lose games, is problem, but anything that he uses that is overpowered I.E Nurse with 95%+ Winrate is fine.
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If you ask me, this post looks like some survivor main who wishes that they delete Legion from the game by making him and his entire power worthless beyond of what it is now.
Your first stage has half-baked version of pig's ability, if you like playing pig, you can just pick pig instead of turning legion into pig. Not only that, You also successfully managed to implement Freddy's dream world mechanic onto him(by not allowing him to hit deep wound survivors) and on top of that, your reward for stalking in comparison to Mysers went from Instant down to even more conditional timer that you can't even use if your remotely next to a survivor.
Just from my first paragraph, can you see how terrible weak the killer is without even adding it into the game? It's like you managed to think of every possible worthless mechanic in the game and slap into one killer to make greatest F-tier in dead by daylight history.
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@azazer said:
@Devil_hit11
While it is possible to down them before the timer expires, I don't think it's an every chase occurrence. against pre buff borrowed time I personally still had to chase some survivors until time wound down and I don't think you can honestly say that is an isolated experience.
Even if what you say is correct for the most part, that most chases end in a down before the timer is up, then my proposed change is simply quality of life. It gives the perception of a power that downs with no real disadvantage to the survivors. This perception of closing the deal in a chase using the power is all the killer needs to quiet most people's poor reception on legion.I prefer Idea 2 two as well as I think moon-walking is unnatural way for killer to play. Maybe someone who plays legion for 6 months straight will eventually perfect this mechanic, however he would be alien to everyone who doesn't.
My idea 3 was that if you hit 3 people for example, those who aren't good at overcharge skill-checks will likely fail and down themselves giving some merit for his intended play-style. as no one really falls regardless of how many people you hit besides the survivor you chase.
Idea 1 In my head, I thought maybe the intended purpose of his power was suppose to be an information tool with heartbeat, like the pig's jigsaw head devices, but it still doesn't justify using his power if the only objective is to make your first hit it easier. you still need some benefit to confirm the down and he just doesn't have any.
In any case, no one knows why he was released in such a bad state, but I'm pretty sure that no one will play him without the tape. Who knows, maybe they will make the 3 hits down as the normal legion power, for how successful his tape version has been.
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@azazer said:
I'm for idea 2, with the condition that the survivor is hit with feral frenzy a second time.
The last in the chain of frenzy attacks is going to get focused down regardless, so between the stun, survivor speed burst, and the lack of scratch marks they have more than enough to make it to a LoS breaker and evade.
Allowing for the timer to tick down during a chase (after being hit twice by frenzy) would fix the perception that the killers power lacks teeth so to speak. And solve a lot of the complaints workout having to touch anything else like mending at 99% timer depletion.
Moon walking after a survivor as a tactic is the same principle, making this just a QoL change.
Milo above argued don't chase, but that is frankly an absurd notion. If you don't follow them and put pressure on them they will just mend. Example being if you frenzy 3 and don't chase 2 of them, they will not go down. If Milo meant don't enter chase, you're basically moon walking or chasing at a distance following a blood trail which is the same thing without the bongo drums playing.Not chasing just means that your submitting to the timer of deep wound. It can work if you use green filthy blade+Purple add-on, but ask yourself this question. If you didn't wait for deep-wound timer, would you down a player faster if you just chased them normally. In most cases, this is almost always the case. It just feels like your playing Huntress with no hatchets right now with legion unless you use Franklin tape.
At rank 1, for where i play normally on PC, there's no way that you could possibly hook enough times before gens are finished without the tape. The reward is simply too static and too slow for the current state of the game. I'm just glad that rank reset recently. Until they make Deep Wound status pressure survivors into making a mistake or give a tactical advantage to Legion for applying it, Your better off using it to injure survivors only and outplaying them with proper chases.
@Milo said:
Idea 1: Yes until the slow.
Idea 2: No. (you can already do that by just "not chasing"
Idea 3: What is the exact timer as of now? Also skill-checks yea ^^I don't know exact value, but if you apply deep wound, the person will finish his mend at 75% of the bar without add-on. With add-on's, it's like 110% of the bar. so I'm guessing the timer is somewhere between 40-60 seconds.